:01:21. > :01:31.5th for here, we speak to victims of crime as MPs demand action over
:01:31. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :39:43.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2291 seconds
:39:43. > :39:47.the number of offenders receiving Hello. Coming up today. The victims
:39:47. > :39:55.of crime who say they have been let down by the law, as MPs demand
:39:55. > :40:01.action over the number of offenders receiving cautions. Our guests
:40:01. > :40:06.today Akbar Alec Shelbrooke, Karl Turner and we will also be speaking
:40:06. > :40:11.to George Galloway as a new report looks at the impact of his by-
:40:11. > :40:19.election victory in Bradford. Alec Shelbrooke, we're talking about
:40:19. > :40:26.crime. Do people feel any safer? crime. Do people feel any safer?
:40:26. > :40:35.Certainly, the feedback is that seeing the PCSOs, people feel they
:40:35. > :40:38.have a point of contact. Crime figures have gone down. We have to
:40:38. > :40:43.temper that with the reports in the police -- in the press about how
:40:43. > :40:47.police numbers are reducing and people can get more fearful of
:40:47. > :40:53.crime despite the evidence pointing the opposite way. Karl Turner, do
:40:53. > :40:58.people have faith in the criminal justice system? Not in my
:40:58. > :41:04.constituency. MPs across the board are getting a lot of Post about
:41:04. > :41:08.this issue. People don't think they're getting justice as victims
:41:08. > :41:16.of crime. We are hearing about loss of cases where people had ended up
:41:16. > :41:20.with a caution for a serious criminal offending. I have asked
:41:20. > :41:25.for a special inquiry into this issue because victims of crime in
:41:25. > :41:30.my area are telling me they feel let down. I don't know if it is
:41:30. > :41:34.people not reporting that crime, but in my area people don't feel
:41:34. > :41:40.safe and they certainly don't feel they're getting justice when they
:41:40. > :41:44.are being victims. There is concern that many criminals are not being
:41:44. > :41:48.brought to justice in court rooms across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.
:41:48. > :41:52.Victims of crime claimed that offenders are too often receiving
:41:52. > :41:55.police cautions or being released due to a lack of evidence. MPs are
:41:55. > :42:01.urging the government to investigate a number of cases where
:42:01. > :42:05.prosecutions have been dropped. Many victims of crime feel let down
:42:05. > :42:11.by the justice system. Paul Harper's wife and daughter were
:42:11. > :42:15.both injured to when their car was hit by a speeding driver in East
:42:15. > :42:21.Yorkshire. A we are left with nothing now. They left for the
:42:21. > :42:25.daughter who can hardly walk, who had to go up university and her job.
:42:25. > :42:31.Her life has been put to one side. The driver of the car was initially
:42:31. > :42:35.charged with dangerous driving, but the case never went to trial.
:42:35. > :42:39.occupants of the car got off for dangerous driving, they got off
:42:39. > :42:45.perverting the kit -- the Court of Justice, and the owner of the car
:42:45. > :42:49.got off with paying for his insurance on stolen credit card.
:42:49. > :42:54.The airbag was allowed to be destroyed which had the DNA
:42:54. > :42:57.evidence on it. When I went to the judge, he advised that possibly it
:42:57. > :43:03.was a weak case on that point because the defence couldn't have
:43:03. > :43:10.access to the airbag. We put Mr Hopper's concerns to Humberside
:43:10. > :43:16.Police. I can understand they feel that all let them down. We can only
:43:16. > :43:19.operate given the evidence. The court came to the view that it
:43:19. > :43:22.would be unsafe to prosecute the person who we suspected was the
:43:22. > :43:26.driver. I know the family were concerned that the airbag was
:43:26. > :43:30.destroyed before the trial, but I reassured them that the airbag was
:43:30. > :43:33.on the evidence. The evidence was the DNA and that was put before the
:43:33. > :43:37.court. Buster was an indication that the person might have been
:43:37. > :43:47.sacked in the fund driver's seed, the evidence was and compelling
:43:47. > :43:48.
:43:48. > :43:52.enough to prove the case -- seat. As a cancer sufferer himself,
:43:52. > :43:57.Graham has raised a thousands of pounds for cancer charities. He
:43:57. > :44:00.recently held a fundraising event at his local village hall in East
:44:00. > :44:05.Yorkshire. But the evening was marred when it was revealed that
:44:05. > :44:10.one of the guests had stolen almost �500 in cash from the raffle
:44:10. > :44:16.proceeds. The thief in question was not charged and received a police
:44:16. > :44:22.caution. Do you feel justice has been done? Not at all. They should
:44:22. > :44:26.have been more done. Even if there was some sort if community service,
:44:26. > :44:34.even if it wasn't in the community but if it was to go and help out
:44:34. > :44:40.with the cancer charities so they know how hard it is to raise �400.
:44:40. > :44:45.It took us a lot of organising. is a subject that concerns many
:44:46. > :44:52.Yorkshire MPs. Can we have a debate on the use of police cautions? This
:44:52. > :44:57.week we have had the case of a burglar who admitted 113 offences
:44:57. > :45:02.and was given a police caution. Some lawyers argue that changes to
:45:02. > :45:07.the way our legal system is funded and cuts to the legal aid budget
:45:07. > :45:14.could lead to fewer prosecutions. While we promoter our legal system
:45:14. > :45:21.worldwide, we are busy dismantling yet at home. The cost to the public
:45:21. > :45:26.both in financial terms and real terms is going to be enormous.
:45:26. > :45:28.While the police and Crown Prosecution Service successfully in
:45:28. > :45:35.sure that many criminals are brought before the courts, some
:45:35. > :45:39.victims are left with the distinct feeling of rough justice.
:45:39. > :45:43.Can you understand why so many victims of crime are angry when
:45:43. > :45:47.they are not seeing criminals in the dock? Absolutely. I fully agree
:45:47. > :45:51.with my colleague there when he is questioning the fact that not
:45:51. > :45:57.enough people are being charged. If we just take the case of the chap
:45:57. > :46:01.who stole the money from the cancer charity, sorry, the woman, if they
:46:01. > :46:05.had been charged and gone to a magistrates' court, community
:46:05. > :46:09.service could have been passed down to that person to go and work in
:46:09. > :46:13.the cancer charity sector. They should understand the consequences
:46:13. > :46:18.of their actions and put something back into society. A police caution
:46:18. > :46:23.is not good enough. The number of cautions being issued has actually
:46:23. > :46:33.fallen. Us that your experience, Karl Turner's certainly not. There
:46:33. > :46:33.
:46:33. > :46:39.is a massive increase in my area. A 78-year-old man was punched in the
:46:39. > :46:42.face by an offender and that was a caution. I know judges in my area
:46:42. > :46:49.of Humberside who would have definitely sent that offenders to
:46:49. > :46:57.prison, even for a first offence. If not present, then a heavy
:46:57. > :47:00.community penalty. Where is the Rehabilitation and that? You lose -
:47:01. > :47:05.- to leave victims of crime feeling that justice has not been done. The
:47:05. > :47:11.problem is that the police budgets and resources are very tight. The
:47:11. > :47:17.same goes for the CPS. The police blame the CPS and they blame the
:47:17. > :47:21.police. Victims of crime are suffering as a result. So they're
:47:22. > :47:24.working with small budgets? That is a fact. The budget has been cut as
:47:24. > :47:28.part of the Government's spending review and they have been brought
:47:29. > :47:38.down. There's a couple of report and points. First of all, some
:47:39. > :47:40.
:47:40. > :47:45.accountability has to come in. If we come back to the overall issue
:47:45. > :47:49.of where we are with policing and people wandering about, we do have
:47:49. > :47:55.the police and crime commissioners. They need to be approached and
:47:55. > :48:01.spoken about. That is the person who can bring these two factions
:48:01. > :48:05.together. Doesn't the legal profession have a part to play? If
:48:05. > :48:09.somebody is down and the cells talking to you and they cough and
:48:09. > :48:16.they admit to their crime, surely you should be encouraging them to
:48:16. > :48:20.save the taxpayer a lot of money? In some circumstances, as the lists
:48:20. > :48:24.for -- a solicitor in a police station will do that. The solicitor
:48:24. > :48:29.is there to act in the best interests of their client. They are
:48:29. > :48:34.not there to act in the interests of anybody else, they have got to
:48:34. > :48:37.give professional legal advice and do compulsory training which
:48:37. > :48:43.continues. They are there to act for the client, not for anybody
:48:43. > :48:47.else. We are going to talk about Bradford now. It is almost a year
:48:47. > :48:52.since George Galloway pulled off his historic when in the Bradford
:48:52. > :48:55.West by-election. Now a new report has criticised Labour for
:48:55. > :49:00.complacency leading to the loss of a seat it had held for decades. The
:49:00. > :49:08.research, carried out by political think-tank Democratic Audit, is
:49:08. > :49:12.published tomorrow it. The national media Museum, a fitting place to
:49:12. > :49:16.launch a report into the factors behind what it calls for Bradford
:49:16. > :49:26.earthquake, because it argues television and social media played
:49:26. > :49:34.
:49:34. > :49:38.a major part in causing it. This is a two-round based press TV. George
:49:38. > :49:43.Galloway has has -- has had his own TV programme on here three years.
:49:43. > :49:50.Aimed at Arabic countries, his fear is that see him as a serious
:49:50. > :49:56.political commentator. It was a major factor in George Galloway's
:49:56. > :49:58.success in winning votes in the Bradford by-election. It is a major
:49:58. > :50:03.change from how we have historically understood the power
:50:03. > :50:06.of television. Back in the 50s, everybody would watch the same
:50:06. > :50:10.channel because there was only one. Now we have got hundreds. People
:50:10. > :50:15.would have seen George Galloway talking on the Iranian press to be,
:50:15. > :50:18.they will have listened to him on talks bought, they would have seen
:50:18. > :50:23.him to confront the US Senedd on one of you tube's favourite ever
:50:23. > :50:32.political clubs. Channels and programmes more popular with the
:50:32. > :50:42.Muslim population in Bradford and say, celebrity big brother. -- than
:50:42. > :50:45.
:50:45. > :50:49.say. The Sunday politics debate was crucial. It showcased brought a
:50:49. > :50:53.way's skills. George Galloway's news of social media was much
:50:53. > :51:03.smarter than the other parties. He was the first politician to have a
:51:03. > :51:03.
:51:03. > :51:09.special little application for iPhones. Other politicians were
:51:09. > :51:15.slow-moving. The report also highlights how mainstream parties
:51:15. > :51:22.took up the votes of young Asian voters and women for granted, by
:51:22. > :51:25.negotiating with Elders who decided how their family clan would vote.
:51:25. > :51:31.Do you think you have smashed that the clan system? It is something
:51:31. > :51:37.which has existed for thousands of years. I think there has been
:51:37. > :51:43.cracks within it. We want to encourage a unified Bradford
:51:43. > :51:47.through political engagement of diverse communities. Labour held
:51:47. > :51:51.its own internal investigation into how it lost a seat it had held for
:51:51. > :52:00.38 years. But admitted complacency by was lying on its historic
:52:00. > :52:10.support -- by relying. Had it used that L the clan system, it may have
:52:10. > :52:11.
:52:11. > :52:14.hoovered up votes -- had it used its L The clan system. We took very
:52:14. > :52:24.seriously the loss in Bradford, the idea that votes had been taken for
:52:24. > :52:28.granted. Mr George Galloway, Member of Parliament for Bradford West!
:52:28. > :52:34.And then there was the all- important razzmatazz, promoting
:52:34. > :52:42.policies that clearly appealed to a much wider electorate. Open-topped
:52:42. > :52:47.buses and those legendary Galloway oratory skills. And George Galloway
:52:47. > :52:53.joins us now. Welcome back to Sunday Politics. You're credited of
:52:53. > :52:58.breaking this system of political tribal loyalty. You feel that
:52:58. > :53:01.normal service could be resumed at the general election? I thought I
:53:01. > :53:06.had died and gone to heaven listening to that report, I must
:53:06. > :53:11.tell you. It was almost as good as the day itself. Of course the proof
:53:11. > :53:21.of the bidding will be in the eating. The next election will tell
:53:21. > :53:21.
:53:21. > :53:29.us whether that system you describe to, involving parties negotiating,
:53:29. > :53:36.will then deliver votes -- the proof of the pudding. I believe
:53:36. > :53:40.myself that it has gone in Bradford because I don't think that having
:53:40. > :53:50.seen them, they're going to be able to put them back on the farm. The
:53:50. > :53:55.
:53:55. > :53:58.people who came and vote for us, if -- voted for us, their families
:53:58. > :54:03.also voted 60 years ago. There has to be a better reason for voting
:54:03. > :54:11.for someone than that. But time will tell. Karl Turner, D want to
:54:11. > :54:18.deal with that. That Labour to can awful lot of voters for granted in
:54:18. > :54:22.Bradford -- do you want to. I think that George Galloway factor was a
:54:22. > :54:26.definite issue. He is a forceful character and very charismatic. I
:54:26. > :54:30.think that had an effect. We also think there was a feeling that we
:54:30. > :54:35.had taken the electorate for granted and I'm sure we have
:54:35. > :54:41.learned from that mistake. We have won the by-election in Rotherham,
:54:41. > :54:45.we won in Manchester, we have one other by-elections, Croydon. George
:54:45. > :54:50.Galloway, we may have seen the Bradford's brink but we certainly
:54:50. > :54:54.didn't see the Rotherham spring. Your success wasn't repeated in the
:54:54. > :55:04.by-election there's no, but we did beat both the Tories and the
:55:04. > :55:04.
:55:04. > :55:11.Liberal Democrats, there were supposed that is not as good as it
:55:11. > :55:18.once was -- although I suppose. the medium is important. The
:55:18. > :55:21.message has to match the medium, however. Peter Mandelson modernised
:55:21. > :55:26.Labour's methods of communication, but if the message you're
:55:26. > :55:34.communicating is one of support for war, which they now call missions
:55:34. > :55:37.for austerity, not quite as fast, then it just went wash with large
:55:37. > :55:43.sections of the committee who need something radically different.
:55:43. > :55:48.Bradford West has 10 % rise year on year in its unemployment figures.
:55:48. > :55:51.We are in an economic emergency in Bradford West. If you're not
:55:51. > :55:57.addressing those fact, it doesn't matter how well you put your point
:55:57. > :56:03.of view in terms of the method of communication, the message just
:56:03. > :56:08.doesn't match up. Alec Shelbrooke, could your own party learned
:56:08. > :56:11.anything from George Galloway? learnt a lot in 1997 when a lot of
:56:11. > :56:17.Conservative MPs have become very arrogant and taken their electorate
:56:17. > :56:20.for granted. I think what became apparent to me when I was out in
:56:20. > :56:25.the Bradford West by-election was that having gone there, thinking to
:56:25. > :56:29.myself that we may have a chance if George Galloway split the Labour
:56:29. > :56:37.vote, as soon as you get on the street and did a street campaign,
:56:37. > :56:47.you realise he was going to walk it. You have got to communicate with
:56:47. > :56:48.
:56:48. > :56:56.your electorate. We have now got a round-up of 60 seconds of the
:56:56. > :57:03.political news. Cuts to the army including York -- Yorkshire and
:57:03. > :57:09.Lincolnshire regiments angered the Scunthorpe Labour MP. On Monday,
:57:09. > :57:14.the Prime Minister stated that the task for our generation was the
:57:14. > :57:19.struggle against terrorism. On Tuesday, his government sacked
:57:19. > :57:22.5,600 troops. Figures out this week show a fall in unemployment, but
:57:22. > :57:30.our region still has the third highest level in the country with
:57:30. > :57:36.almost nine % out of work. New Kipp MEP Godfrey Bloom was not impressed
:57:37. > :57:43.by the Prime Minister of's promise of renegotiating our EU membership
:57:43. > :57:48.terms. And controversy from Bradford's Liberal-Democrat David
:57:48. > :57:55.Ward. One Holocaust Memorial Day, he criticised Israel's treatment of
:57:55. > :57:59.Palestinians since the second world war.
:57:59. > :58:04.George Galloway, your reaction to what your father -- a fellow
:58:04. > :58:08.Bradford MP David Ward has been saying. Was the right to criticise
:58:08. > :58:15.Israel on Holocaust memorial day? Absolutely. The problem was the
:58:15. > :58:25.language that he chose the seemed to blame it dos. This was an
:58:25. > :58:30.
:58:30. > :58:34.elementary school boy a howler. -- Jews. We are not against Jews.
:58:34. > :58:39.Because absurd to blame them for the suffering of the Palestinian
:58:39. > :58:43.people. -- It is absurd. I suspect that it is the disgrace for a
:58:43. > :58:50.rather than the howler, because David Ward, like all Liberal-
:58:50. > :58:54.Democrat MPs is staring unemployment himself -- steering
:58:54. > :59:04.and implement himself down the barrel of the next election. --
:59:04. > :59:06.
:59:06. > :59:11.unemployment. He has got a meeting with the Lib Dems tomorrow. Alec
:59:11. > :59:15.Shelbrooke, was he right to say what he did? I think it is
:59:15. > :59:19.outrageous. Holocaust Memorial Day is a day when we remember where
:59:19. > :59:25.intolerance Leeds. To twist it and talk about a Jewish people rather
:59:25. > :59:33.than the state of Israel, as George says, was wrong. I'm a supporter of
:59:33. > :59:43.this state of Israel but I would like to think IMF club -- critical
:59:43. > :59:46.supporter. There are things to be done. To be gone someone's religion
:59:46. > :59:53.and make those comparisons, I'm afraid I find it totally
:59:53. > :59:57.unacceptable. Karl Turner, EU referendum, depending on who you
:59:57. > :00:02.talk to and the Labour Party on a different day, you get a different
:00:02. > :00:06.answer. What is your belief? policy on this is consistent.
:00:06. > :00:09.October 2011, I went through the division lobby with the Prime
:00:09. > :00:17.Minister and Ed Miliband, the late -- the leader of my party, saying
:00:17. > :00:27.we didn't want their referendum on the EU. The Prime Minister's
:00:27. > :00:28.
:00:28. > :00:33.position is all over the place. The Tory MPs care more about getting
:00:33. > :00:38.rid of David Cameron than they do about getting out of the year. His
:00:38. > :00:42.position is completely inconsistent. But is bad timing, what we need is
:00:42. > :00:48.a certainty in the economy. Unemployment in my area is going up.
:00:48. > :00:52.We need for certainty and we need investors to be confident that we
:00:52. > :00:55.have got absolutely consistent position. We have got a consistent
:00:56. > :01:03.position now. We know we're going to say to the British people at
:01:03. > :01:11.this moment in time, it is not the right time to say it in out, we're
:01:11. > :01:14.going to renegotiate the position. Then we will say to the British
:01:14. > :01:20.people, do you want to stay in under this new relationship or do
:01:20. > :01:26.you want out? What about you, George Galloway? Would you like to
:01:26. > :01:32.see a new EU referendum? Bring It On. The people of this country have
:01:32. > :01:36.rejected, as have most people in EU countries, rejected the kind of
:01:36. > :01:44.European Union that we currently have. It is the European Union of
:01:44. > :01:46.bankers and fat cats in the EU Commission. In Brussels, a totally
:01:46. > :01:51.dysfunctional European Parliament, all of it costing billions at a
:01:51. > :01:57.time when that money could be far better spent. We are in favour of
:01:57. > :02:01.an EU referendum and the sooner the better. So you will be campaigning
:02:02. > :02:11.alongside right-wing Tories? No, we will campaign foreign owned
:02:11. > :02:15.independent position which is internationalist. -- for a our own.
:02:15. > :02:23.You said, Bradford spring is here to stay because you're going to