:01:22. > :01:28.And in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: How will voters react to an MP's
:01:28. > :01:38.proposal for a card to stop benefits claimants spending money on alcohol
:01:38. > :01:38.
:01:38. > :36:02.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2064 seconds
:36:02. > :36:09.You were watching the Sunday politics for Yorkshire and
:36:09. > :36:14.Lincolnshire. Coming up today, which you send your child at for heart
:36:14. > :36:17.surgery at Leeds General Infirmary? As the legal wrangle over the unit's
:36:17. > :36:24.future takes a new twist, we speak to the parents who have very
:36:24. > :36:28.different views on the safety of the heart centre. It is a gold standard
:36:28. > :36:33.unit and it has been proven to be sustainable. I think it is critical
:36:33. > :36:39.that something has got to change and the data is a key thing.
:36:39. > :36:43.Plus, find out how voters react to the plans for a welfare card which
:36:43. > :36:53.would stop then if it's claimants spending money on alcohol and
:36:53. > :36:56.
:36:56. > :37:01.cigarettes. Stewart Andrew, if I can start with
:37:01. > :37:11.you, we know that NHS England is appealing against the High Court
:37:11. > :37:16.ruling which six queues the future -- which would secure the future of
:37:16. > :37:19.the children's heart unit. There is consensus right across the country
:37:20. > :37:23.now with clinicians and all politicians that what we really need
:37:23. > :37:29.is to get to a final decision on where these heart units are going to
:37:29. > :37:34.be. All this is going to do is delay the reporting of the Independent
:37:34. > :37:38.reconfiguration panel's report, which will give the automatic that
:37:38. > :37:43.hunchback alternate decision. -- which will give the ultimate
:37:43. > :37:47.decision. Do you accept the original
:37:47. > :37:55.principles of the review, which found that children's heart surgery
:37:55. > :38:01.is better served by fewer, better dedicated centres? You could say
:38:01. > :38:06.that about any surgery. I remember reading years ago that if you needed
:38:06. > :38:11.cancer surgery then going to the rate hospital with the rate surgeon
:38:11. > :38:14.would increase your chances of survival by about 10%. But can we
:38:14. > :38:18.trust any of the statistics that have been going around for months
:38:18. > :38:24.now. That is the greater problem. This week the Health Secretary
:38:24. > :38:29.defended the decision to temporarily to spend -- suspend children's heart
:38:30. > :38:33.surgery in Leeds. That followed detail which appear to show
:38:33. > :38:37.mortality rates which were more than twice the national average.
:38:37. > :38:44.Operations have no resumed, but some are still questioning patient safety
:38:44. > :38:54.at the unit. Welcome to NHS England's health
:38:54. > :39:03.
:39:03. > :39:07.quarters -- headquarters in Leeds. The Sager has kept on rolling. This
:39:07. > :39:10.falling out goes back to the safe and sustainable review which found
:39:11. > :39:13.that children's heart operations should be made from Leeds to
:39:13. > :39:23.Newcastle but this decision was found to be unlawful by the High
:39:23. > :39:23.
:39:23. > :39:28.Court. Data was then presented which was found to be flawed. Surgery was
:39:28. > :39:31.suspended but resumed last week. A decision which was questioned by Sir
:39:31. > :39:38.Roger, who said he would not send his own daughter first surgery at
:39:39. > :39:42.the hospital. Kerry Singleton is from North Yorkshire, her
:39:42. > :39:52.seven-year-old daughter is due for more treatment. She says she does
:39:52. > :39:52.
:39:52. > :39:58.not need to rely on data, she trusts the doctors at the centre. It comes
:39:58. > :40:05.with the territory. The surgeons are not God. They do a fantastic job. I
:40:05. > :40:08.cannot praise Leeds enough. You have everything under one roof. We have
:40:08. > :40:13.one of the largest population densities outside of London and it
:40:13. > :40:18.is absolutely fantastic. Meanwhile, Michelle from South
:40:18. > :40:25.Yorkshire has serious concerns. She was unhappy with the cure that her
:40:25. > :40:32.daughter received and said that parents need more statistics.
:40:32. > :40:38.data as a key thing. I had no idea how you rent a half ago -- a year
:40:38. > :40:42.and a half ago, that there was data for me to look at, for example about
:40:42. > :40:47.where transplants are done. I did not know that this information was
:40:47. > :40:55.available. Parents have to be given more information, it has to be a
:40:55. > :40:58.clear, transparent process. Where does this leave patient
:40:58. > :41:04.safety? Crucially, for children being treated here now and in the
:41:04. > :41:08.future. A paediatric cardiologist at the
:41:08. > :41:13.unit says that he fears that patient safety could come second to dealing
:41:13. > :41:17.with detail. People in other units, we have had quite a bit of support
:41:17. > :41:20.from them, they tell us things like, you have really been put
:41:21. > :41:27.through the ringer on this one. They seem to be coming at you again and
:41:27. > :41:31.again. They have shown that your service is safe, that your results
:41:31. > :41:37.are no different from anywhere else in the country. And yet they still
:41:37. > :41:41.come at you. It makes people a bit nervous. Is this the future? It does
:41:41. > :41:46.distract from patient care. If you spend a lot of time providing data
:41:46. > :41:53.for a group that is coming into the cat you, that is time that you could
:41:53. > :41:58.be focusing on improving patient care in the hospital.
:41:58. > :42:01.The story has gone right to the top, with Jeremy Hunt backing the
:42:01. > :42:08.decision to bring any concerns for about the unit. You said it was
:42:08. > :42:12.wrong to speak out against the servers publicly. But there are very
:42:12. > :42:19.small children are facing very big operations and the unit is still not
:42:19. > :42:25.certain about its future. The latest twist is NHS England's decision to
:42:25. > :42:29.appeal the decision. What do you say to parents who have
:42:29. > :42:33.lost confidence in children's heart surgery at Leeds General Infirmary?
:42:33. > :42:37.First, I would say that I would completely understand when you see
:42:37. > :42:42.all of this going on in the media, you must have a million questions in
:42:42. > :42:45.your mind. I sympathise with how difficult it must be. When you look
:42:45. > :42:50.at the evidence, they have had a vigorous process over this last
:42:50. > :42:53.fortnight of checks and balances. Eminent surgeons have been there
:42:53. > :42:58.looking at everything that they have been doing, and they have been found
:42:58. > :43:02.to be a safe unit. But it still has the highest mortality rate in the
:43:02. > :43:09.country. The figures are not ready yet. They do not have the highest in
:43:09. > :43:13.the country, there is this funnel of acceptability. But there are other
:43:13. > :43:18.units like older here in Liverpool but also the, and it is because of
:43:18. > :43:22.the tapes of operations that are doing. Because of all of the work
:43:22. > :43:31.that has gone on there, all of the checks and balances, it is deemed to
:43:31. > :43:34.be a safe unit. It is only fear to the parents that the normal house
:43:34. > :43:38.safety unit is that they are sending their children to.
:43:38. > :43:44.Would you take your children first surgery at Leeds with baby safe at
:43:44. > :43:47.Newcastle? I should not add to that question. Those who have done so in
:43:47. > :43:57.the last week or so have been fundamentally wrong in my view. But
:43:57. > :44:06.
:44:06. > :44:10.we have been talking about the unit being scrutinised. But it does
:44:10. > :44:15.improve things. I did not know that statistics were around, I should be
:44:15. > :44:18.able to locate them and find out how good it is. That what we have. But
:44:18. > :44:23.we have had in the last couple of weeks is something that is wholly
:44:23. > :44:26.wrong, it has left parents hanging in the air. What we need to get to
:44:26. > :44:36.do now is to get back to surgery in the weeds unit nine than to step up
:44:36. > :44:41.from where we are now at the moment -- the Leeds unit. The Leeds unit is
:44:41. > :44:46.safe for people. But at Mid Staffordshire they were chasing
:44:46. > :44:52.targets in compiling data. Patients were neglected and some died under
:44:52. > :44:55.horrible circumstances. I agree entirely with that. Many doctors and
:44:55. > :45:00.nurses are going through the regulation body because of that. But
:45:00. > :45:05.I remember what happened at Bristol. They did not stop the surgery. But
:45:05. > :45:10.they sent someone in to find out what had happened. What you need to
:45:10. > :45:14.do is to work on these things. This erratic situation that we have had,
:45:14. > :45:19.not just in terms of the stopping and starting of surgery, but the
:45:19. > :45:26.potential for the court case to go on and on is not good for the Leeds
:45:26. > :45:30.unit and it is not good for parents. The cardiologist seemed to suggest
:45:31. > :45:34.that surgeons not just in Leeds, but in hospitals around the country, I
:45:34. > :45:41.know going to be much more cautious with your surgery because of the
:45:41. > :45:44.rollover this data. I think that that is inevitably true. I have
:45:44. > :45:50.already had phone calls from surgeons who are getting worried.
:45:50. > :45:56.They do not want to head the data, but they are worried that it will be
:45:56. > :46:01.used responsibly. This data has been incomplete, it has not had checks
:46:01. > :46:05.and balances on it. If one piece of data related to the child, the whole
:46:05. > :46:10.child was taken out of the equation, so of course there will be
:46:10. > :46:14.problems with that. To suspend surgery on the basis of weak
:46:14. > :46:18.information like that is responsible. That is why it needs to
:46:18. > :46:24.be looked at. NHS England is ultimately a government body. He
:46:24. > :46:28.will stand in the next election as a supporter of the current government.
:46:28. > :46:33.If the unit does not stay open, can you still represent your
:46:33. > :46:37.government? This campaign has had no party politics in it whatsoever. It
:46:37. > :46:43.has been cross-party and cross region. This was an independent
:46:43. > :46:50.review that was set up in 2008. What we are seeing is that the
:46:50. > :46:52.recommendations that were made a wrong because we have got all of the
:46:52. > :47:00.children's services under one refuelling Yorkshire and we are
:47:00. > :47:04.newly at the 400 a year. We are going to have to move on to
:47:04. > :47:09.another topic. The political row over the biggest shake-up of welfare
:47:09. > :47:12.this decade continues to gather pace. This month has seen the
:47:12. > :47:16.introduction of a raft of measures designed to change the benefits
:47:16. > :47:22.bill. Some claim that the government should be going further that is to
:47:22. > :47:27.put a serious dent in the dosh that it is doling out.
:47:27. > :47:31.Once a lorry driver, Anthony Daniels had horrific damage to his back at
:47:31. > :47:35.work 12 years ago, so the benefits agency has been paying the rent for
:47:35. > :47:42.his specially adapted family home. But now he says he has to move
:47:42. > :47:52.because under new rules the family has too many bedrooms and must
:47:52. > :47:58.contribute �30 a week, that is 21% of their income. There are for
:47:58. > :48:04.adults, and we have a clearer common two nights a week. Under the new
:48:04. > :48:09.legislation the government says we are entitled to four bedrooms.
:48:09. > :48:12.Anthony has joined those in social housing who say that they now must
:48:13. > :48:16.move into smaller homes to avoid having their benefits cut. The
:48:16. > :48:24.government says that that was part of that strategy to free big homes
:48:24. > :48:28.for larger families. But there is a problem. Housing agencies there are
:48:28. > :48:31.simply not enough properties arranged to allow it to happen. We
:48:31. > :48:37.are prioritising those properties which are becoming empty for those
:48:37. > :48:41.who are seeing, I cannot afford to pay this rent, can you move me? If
:48:41. > :48:47.we had to be housed 300 people ourselves, that would take us 20 or
:48:47. > :48:50.30 years. We could not do it. The housing association here in the
:48:50. > :48:54.centre of Bradford believes that over 20% of its tenants could now
:48:54. > :48:58.find themselves paying rent for the first time even though their incomes
:48:58. > :49:03.have not changed at all. It is already making provision for people
:49:03. > :49:08.who will not be able to pay their rent. It believes that around 8% of
:49:08. > :49:16.those affected will be in that position.
:49:16. > :49:26.Stopping using benefits to pay for spear bedrooms is backed by the SNP.
:49:26. > :49:29.But he says that he wants more restrictions -- backed by this MP.
:49:29. > :49:33.Do you think it is right for a government to restrict what people
:49:33. > :49:41.can spend their benefits on? Yes. I have never smoked and I have worked
:49:41. > :49:45.all of my life and I think lotteries like smoking and drinking, if you
:49:45. > :49:50.can go out to work and pay for that, that is fine. Do you think that
:49:50. > :49:54.would help people have more faith in the welfare state and would actually
:49:54. > :50:01.dispel a lot of the ideas that people have of people losing about
:50:01. > :50:06.on benefits? I am sure it would. cannot dictate how people live on
:50:06. > :50:10.their own on their money. As long as it does not sacrifice other
:50:10. > :50:18.household roles that are important, then you should not control it.
:50:18. > :50:20.It is not government policy to do this, but some say that they are
:50:20. > :50:25.preparing appeals to the European Court of human rights and some of
:50:25. > :50:28.the changes. I do not think it is in danger of
:50:28. > :50:33.becoming government policy any time soon, but is there an argument for
:50:33. > :50:35.limiting what people can spend their welfare money on? Absolutely not. I
:50:35. > :50:43.would be the last person to encourage anyone to spend any money
:50:43. > :50:48.on cigarettes, but we have to get some context into all of this. Alex
:50:48. > :50:56.is off the wall in my view. You have seen the size of him, he did not
:50:57. > :51:00.mention fatty foods. If he ends up with an overweight illness, we will
:51:00. > :51:04.be paying money for him to go into hospital. They ought to watch what
:51:04. > :51:08.he is seeing in these areas. He is saying we should penalise people
:51:08. > :51:11.because they are not at work and our own state benefit. We have had
:51:11. > :51:16.enough of that. We need some reasonable and sensible discussion
:51:16. > :51:19.about this. Wait until Alex sees you in the
:51:19. > :51:24.chamber and house of commons this week, it will be interesting. What
:51:24. > :51:31.do you make of these proposals, that people should have a welfare card to
:51:31. > :51:35.stop them spending money on beer and fags. We have discussed this at
:51:35. > :51:40.length. I can understand where he is coming from but I do not personally
:51:40. > :51:44.support the wall principle. What we need is all sorts of ideas. It is
:51:44. > :51:47.absolutely right that we had this debate. The debate about welfare is
:51:47. > :51:56.long overdue. For too long it has come away from what was originally
:51:56. > :51:59.intended. When it was originally set up, it said that the benefits system
:51:59. > :52:04.should not hinder people in terms of advancement once they get a job.
:52:04. > :52:10.That is why we have brought in the at �26,000, because we need to have
:52:10. > :52:18.an incentive for going to work. For some people the benefit system has
:52:18. > :52:22.meant that they have been trapped on benefits . It is right that we bring
:52:22. > :52:30.in this and it is actually weakly supported. Labour does not support
:52:30. > :52:35.the benefits. What do you say to people in your constituency to see
:52:35. > :52:38.-- who say, why am I working to support those who cannot? They might
:52:38. > :52:46.end up in a situation where they have a severe disability and they
:52:46. > :52:51.cannot work. We look at what has happened with unemployment in this
:52:51. > :52:54.region this week. Another 11,000 people have joined the dole queue.
:52:54. > :53:00.We have the second highest unemployment rate in the UK at the
:53:00. > :53:09.moment. We need to helping people -- we need to help people get into
:53:09. > :53:16.work. But the opinion polls show that many people do want tough
:53:16. > :53:21.action on this issue. That idea that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
:53:21. > :53:26.hints that what happened in Derby a few months ago is related to the
:53:26. > :53:29.person being on state benefit, I find that distasteful. If we want to
:53:29. > :53:33.have an open debate about people and state benefit, I am happy to do
:53:33. > :53:40.that. It is not that long ago that the former Conservative government
:53:40. > :53:43.was seen to former coalminers in my constituency, take early retirement
:53:43. > :53:50.at the age of 50. They wanted to hate people from unemployment
:53:50. > :53:55.figures. How do you respond to that? We have seen that 1 million extra
:53:55. > :53:58.jobs in the private sector. The Labour Party was saying that we
:53:58. > :54:04.would never be able to create them when we were having to scale back on
:54:04. > :54:08.public sector jobs, but we have managed to do that. We need to also
:54:08. > :54:13.make sure that there is an incentive for people to go out to work. I have
:54:13. > :54:19.many people in my constituency who are on low incomes and easy to me,
:54:19. > :54:25.�26,000, I would love to be able to take that home with me and your from
:54:25. > :54:28.the work that I do. We have to make it an incentive for people to go to
:54:28. > :54:37.work and reward those people who go to work. The benefit system need to
:54:37. > :54:41.be there -- needs to be there. I have been on benefits myself, I know
:54:41. > :54:45.it is not easy. But if we do not bring in these changes we will have
:54:45. > :54:55.a bigger problem. We take a look at some more of the
:54:55. > :54:56.
:54:56. > :54:59.week's News now in our 62nd round -- 60 seconds round-up. It is almost
:54:59. > :55:07.30 years since the miners strike, but the anger against Margaret
:55:07. > :55:12.Thatcher has not dimmed. 2000 turned out to celebrate the death of the
:55:12. > :55:17.women they blame for destroying their communities. We have waited a
:55:17. > :55:23.long time for this. Miners born and bred. We will always stick
:55:23. > :55:26.together. But others had an entirely different view. Many travelled from
:55:26. > :55:32.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire to pay their respects in person.
:55:32. > :55:37.certainly have not seen anything better since she finished. I have
:55:37. > :55:40.seen some of my constituents come down to pay their own tribute.
:55:40. > :55:45.Unemployment is up again, figures from least this week show that one
:55:45. > :55:48.in ten people in Yorkshire are out of work, making it the second worst
:55:48. > :55:58.blackspot in the country with youth unemployment and major cause for
:55:58. > :55:59.
:55:59. > :56:04.concern. It is really difficult, the result of competition out there.
:56:04. > :56:10.What do you make of people burning effigies of Margaret Thatcher in
:56:10. > :56:16.Yorkshire? Is that acceptable? feel that a lot of that has been
:56:16. > :56:21.deluxe tasteful. But I understand where that is coming from -- been
:56:22. > :56:26.distasteful. I represented several coal mining communities and one by
:56:26. > :56:32.one the closed. Little happens between the closures and the
:56:32. > :56:37.bringing in of the new government. She did sky the coal-mining
:56:37. > :56:44.community, I have to say. She was not on her own. I do not blame her
:56:44. > :56:53.for ever thing that happened in 1984 and 1985. Whilst a lot of it is
:56:53. > :56:57.distasteful, you have to take into account what happened when the coal
:56:57. > :57:02.mines closed as something that scarred young people for many years.
:57:02. > :57:10.Companies will look at those scenes and think, why should we invest the?
:57:10. > :57:16.People might be put off. We can invest. There are massive amounts of
:57:16. > :57:19.work now. If it was not for the Labour government is nothing would
:57:19. > :57:28.have happened there. It did not happen for years when the Tories got
:57:28. > :57:32.it. -- got in. People will come here to work if we leave the ground for
:57:32. > :57:37.them to do so. Did you go to Margaret Thatcher 's funeral, did
:57:37. > :57:42.you shed a tear? I did go to her funeral and I did find it
:57:42. > :57:48.emotional, I have no shame in seeing that. Margaret Thatcher was not on
:57:48. > :57:52.her own. More pits closed under Wilson. The miners, I am afraid,
:57:52. > :57:58.work early lead by Arthur Scargill. To blame all a bit on Margaret
:57:58. > :58:04.Thatcher is completely unacceptable. -- to blame all of it on Margaret
:58:04. > :58:07.Thatcher. You could use the crowds from inside cheering and clapping in
:58:07. > :58:13.recognition of one of the greatest Prime Minister is that this country
:58:13. > :58:20.has ever had. Do you think that that was sheared by your constituents in
:58:20. > :58:24.Pudsey? Probably yes. You have a lot to learn from
:58:24. > :58:33.Margaret Thatcher. She won three elections. None of that coalition
:58:33. > :58:36.business around. Here's here. Tony Blair won three elections as well.
:58:36. > :58:41.Hope the state will not be forking out the money that they have done in
:58:41. > :58:45.the last week. Going back to the point, it is distasteful to be