:01:17. > :01:26.the cost of policing running into millions, Luke -- we look at calls
:01:27. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :40:24.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2337 seconds
:40:24. > :40:31.to ban demonstrations by far right time for the government to crack
:40:31. > :40:35.down on payday loans firms. We meet the Roger Raman who receives a call
:40:36. > :40:39.from the bailiffs after taking out a loan to pay his dog 's vet bill. And
:40:39. > :40:41.with the cost of policing running into millions, we look at calls to
:40:41. > :40:48.ban demonstrations by far-right groups such as the English Defence
:40:48. > :40:55.League. That's coming up later. Let's say hello to our guests today.
:40:55. > :40:57.Sarah Champion is the Labour MP for Rotherham and Craig Whittaker is the
:40:57. > :41:05.Conservative MP for Culver Valley. We are going to talk about pay day
:41:05. > :41:12.loan company 's. Are you happy with the way they operate? Not at all. We
:41:12. > :41:17.need to do something about it. Whitaker, why aren't we seeing more
:41:18. > :41:26.action from the government? We are seeing action. They are looking at
:41:26. > :41:30.the way these loan companies operate and also the FCA will be starting up
:41:30. > :41:33.to do other things about them as well. Every day, Citizens' Advice
:41:33. > :41:35.staff across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are dealing with influx
:41:35. > :41:38.of enquiries from people who've borrowed money from pay day loan
:41:38. > :41:42.firms - often with astronomical rates of interest. Len Tingle has
:41:42. > :41:51.been to Rotherham to meet one man who says he's paying a high price
:41:51. > :41:55.for his loan. Six months ago, Mickey Lawson 's dog tipped him into
:41:55. > :42:03.financial trouble. The Roger Raman was already struggling on short time
:42:03. > :42:09.in a low paid job -- rather rum man. For a short-term loan, they
:42:09. > :42:16.turned to the friendly voice on his television set. Sometimes your pay
:42:16. > :42:24.just won't stretch far enough, that is why quit it could help.
:42:24. > :42:30.application was quick. �450 with an agreement to pay back �700 over the
:42:30. > :42:36.next few weeks, but with the company taking it directly from the couple
:42:36. > :42:42.'s bank account. The company took all of the money with added penalty
:42:42. > :42:49.payments, leaving the couple Esther tutor. I've been worried about
:42:49. > :42:53.whether we are going to get evicted or not, about if bailiffs are going
:42:53. > :42:57.to be turning up at our door. We have been threatened by every
:42:57. > :43:02.company that I owe money to that bailiffs will be arriving if our
:43:02. > :43:06.payments are not paid in full immediately. Nick eventually came
:43:06. > :43:14.here. This is the citizens advice bureau. But already, the national
:43:14. > :43:22.network of CABGs but already conducting their own service -- of
:43:22. > :43:28.Citizens Advice bureaus. People were already in debt with little or no
:43:28. > :43:32.income, even people who were alcoholics or suffered from mental
:43:32. > :43:38.illness. The view is that action needs to be taken and needs to be
:43:38. > :43:47.taken now. They are not checking the documents from these people when
:43:47. > :43:52.they approach these companies. We have people on benefits. Given the
:43:52. > :44:01.changes to benefits, that is a big problem. Some people simply should
:44:01. > :44:04.not be offered a loan. They need advice and help. Quick quid declined
:44:04. > :44:09.an invitation to be interviewed by us. But it said that it complies
:44:09. > :44:15.with Allred collations and it is been in touch with Citizens Advice
:44:15. > :44:20.to set up a hotline so that any disputes could be resolved speedily.
:44:20. > :44:26.Those disputes have been growing fast. Just three years ago, the
:44:26. > :44:31.citizens advice bureau contacted just nine payday loan companies and
:44:31. > :44:36.this year they have contacted 37. A clear difference of political
:44:36. > :44:38.approach was highlighted this week when a Northwest MP asked the prime
:44:38. > :44:46.minister to join him in congratulating his local foot club
:44:46. > :44:50.for refusing to accept sponsorship from a pay day loan company. Will he
:44:50. > :44:59.also join in and do the right thing and give local authorities the power
:44:59. > :45:02.to ban these predatory loan sharks from our high streets? We need to
:45:02. > :45:06.give more support to credit unions in our country because that is one
:45:06. > :45:16.of the best ways of addressing this whole problem of payday loans payday
:45:16. > :45:19.lending. The government should be acted to deal with this problem. The
:45:19. > :45:25.truth is they have been asleep on the job in the office of fair
:45:25. > :45:31.trading has now said, look at the problems this has created. Back
:45:31. > :45:41.here, that criticism of the taxing payday loan companies is little
:45:41. > :45:41.
:45:41. > :45:46.comfort to this man. So, Sarah Champion, we heard Nick 's story. He
:45:46. > :45:55.took out a loan to pay his dog 's vet bill. What should the government
:45:55. > :45:58.be doing to help people like him? The problem is that he is not alone.
:45:58. > :46:02.Some people have had nervous breakdowns because of these loans.
:46:02. > :46:04.Some people are so terrified of letters and loan sharks coming to
:46:04. > :46:11.their doors that they are barricading themselves in and not
:46:11. > :46:21.going out. What needs to happen is one simple thing, that we cap the
:46:21. > :46:22.
:46:23. > :46:29.interest rates. In Mickey 's case it was 2500%. Some are a lot more. 85%
:46:29. > :46:32.of people going going for food, and essentials, they are not going for
:46:32. > :46:37.extravagant television sets. They are looking for amounts of money to
:46:37. > :46:43.bridge that gap at the end of the week. That �50 with thousand percent
:46:43. > :46:52.of interest rapidly escalate out of control. I have to look at that TV
:46:52. > :46:58.advert again very closely, 2356% interest! Surely that cannot be
:46:58. > :47:08.acceptable! I don't think capping the interest rate is the right thing
:47:08. > :47:09.
:47:09. > :47:12.to do. We hear these rates of interest being quoted all the time.
:47:13. > :47:19.Even if it was 200%, they still would not have been able to pay it
:47:19. > :47:29.back. The issue for me is how these companies operate. Most countries
:47:29. > :47:31.
:47:31. > :47:35.have capped immediately these rates. People who are lending money of the
:47:35. > :47:38.open market, loan sharks, behind the street and tied into that as
:47:38. > :47:44.violence as well. At least in the current system we have, we have got
:47:44. > :47:48.away from the previous system. One of the things as well, there has to
:47:48. > :47:52.be an element with these things of making sure that these companies are
:47:52. > :47:55.very clearly stating what they are offering, what they are getting back
:47:55. > :48:02.in return, but they also has to be an onus on the people taking the
:48:02. > :48:07.loans as well. These guys are clearly knew they were going to
:48:07. > :48:12.borrow �400, having to pay back �700, knowing full well that they
:48:12. > :48:16.didn't have the facility to pay it back. But they don't always know,
:48:16. > :48:24.people are going in run, people with learning difficulties, they're not
:48:24. > :48:29.having checks on whether they can pay that back. That is a thing that
:48:29. > :48:37.I think seriously they need to get a serious grip of an look at the
:48:37. > :48:42.practices of these companies. We know for a fact that currently they
:48:42. > :48:45.are looking at 50 of these companies who are on notice and if they don't
:48:45. > :48:52.comply within the notice period, they will have their licence
:48:52. > :48:56.revoked. That is the type of instant action we need to see. Do you accept
:48:57. > :49:01.that if they are used properly as a short-term loan and paid off in
:49:01. > :49:06.quick succession, there is nothing wrong with these companies? Well,
:49:06. > :49:09.there are other ways that people could borrow money. I rarely agree
:49:09. > :49:13.with David Cameron but he mentioned credit unions and there are much
:49:13. > :49:17.more responsible ways that you can borrow money. What would also be
:49:17. > :49:21.very useful, if not essential, is that children going through school
:49:21. > :49:25.should be taught about simple budgeting and saving. But most
:49:25. > :49:33.importantly is that these people, when they go in for a law Cash loan,
:49:33. > :49:43.they need to be assessed. 86% of the income of these loan companies comes
:49:43. > :49:49.
:49:49. > :49:52.from the loaning. -- re-loaning. What price free speech? That's what
:49:52. > :49:55.some people are asking following the latest in a series of protests by
:49:55. > :49:57.far-right groups. South Yorkshire Police reckon it cost half a million
:49:57. > :49:59.pounds to keep order at last weekend's demonstration by the
:49:59. > :50:01.English Defence League in Sheffield, which also involved a
:50:01. > :50:04.counter-protest by anti-fascist campaigners. So should the police
:50:04. > :50:14.have more power to prevent demos if there's a serious risk of
:50:14. > :50:18.disruption? This was the scene in Sheffield city centre as members of
:50:18. > :50:21.the English Defence League gathered at their latest protest. According
:50:21. > :50:26.to the EDL, it was the latest in a series of nationwide events set up
:50:26. > :50:36.to pay tribute to soldier Lee Rigby who was killed on the streets of
:50:36. > :50:39.
:50:39. > :50:44.London. They were met by a counter demonstration. Up to 1,000 officers
:50:44. > :50:50.from ten different forces were on duty in a police operation estimated
:50:50. > :50:54.to have cost �500,000. At the end of the day, who is trying to confront
:50:55. > :50:59.us and stop us having our freedom of assembly to exercise our democratic
:50:59. > :51:02.rights in a peaceful manner 's South Yorkshire Police has defended the
:51:02. > :51:07.cost of policing this process, but is Commissioner accepts the money
:51:07. > :51:12.could be better spent elsewhere. That half �1 million could be put to
:51:12. > :51:15.much better use than employing a lease offices that could work across
:51:15. > :51:20.the whole of Archimedes in South Yorkshire tackling issues like
:51:20. > :51:30.burglary and shoplifting, but fundamentally I would ways defend
:51:30. > :51:40.
:51:40. > :51:45.the right to Test in a calm way. -- to protest. Norm -- meanwhile, a
:51:45. > :51:51.protest against plans to build a new mosque in the city. The English
:51:51. > :51:54.people have had enough of the Islamist 's running the country.
:51:54. > :51:57.message to the people of Lincoln was to go about their business as
:51:57. > :52:02.normal, but many shops decided to close early and some businesses now
:52:02. > :52:10.believe that the police should have more power to stop these kinds of
:52:10. > :52:14.demonstrations. Lincoln in itself, were not renowned for these
:52:14. > :52:20.demonstrations. They're not particularly nice. It could have
:52:20. > :52:25.been quite nasty. Do you think the police should have more power to
:52:25. > :52:31.stop these protests? Yes, they should be able to assess it and act
:52:31. > :52:36.on that assessment. However, Lincolnshire 's police and crime
:52:36. > :52:41.omission Alan Hardwick has ruled out any ban on future demonstrations by
:52:41. > :52:45.far right groups. I believe in people having the right to make a
:52:45. > :52:49.point in a peaceful way. That is what happened in Lincoln that
:52:49. > :52:54.Saturday. You might call them right wing, I don't know what they are,
:52:54. > :52:58.but people who want to make point and choose to make it peacefully are
:52:58. > :53:04.going to be welcomed. It might cause a bit of disruption, but we can
:53:04. > :53:13.certainly cope here in Lincolnshire. While most of us defend our right to
:53:13. > :53:18.free speech, some are beginning to question the price of protest. Is
:53:18. > :53:20.there an argument in some cases the saying that these demonstrations
:53:21. > :53:29.should not go ahead because of the disruptive effect they have on our
:53:29. > :53:39.towns and cities? Should they go ahead is one argument. Also, should
:53:39. > :53:39.
:53:39. > :53:49.they go ahead in some cases, that has got to be done to the police to
:53:49. > :53:54.analyse the nature of the demonstration. There was a protest
:53:54. > :54:01.on the evening that Lee Rigby was killed, in cases like that, there is
:54:01. > :54:06.every right to stop them when there is so much else going on. If it is a
:54:06. > :54:09.peaceful demonstration, it is the right thing to do. Last weekend 's
:54:09. > :54:14.demonstration cost �500,000, can you justify that to the taxpayers of
:54:14. > :54:20.South Yorkshire? It is a hard thing to justify. The police did a
:54:20. > :54:25.fantastic job. The planning was exemplary. The problem that I have
:54:25. > :54:30.is that everyone does have the right for a peaceful protest, but what
:54:30. > :54:33.exactly are the EDL protesting about? They don't have a right to
:54:33. > :54:38.promote hatred or to antagonise situations, and the fact it is
:54:38. > :54:42.costing millions of pounds, which personally I would like scene spent
:54:42. > :54:47.on better policing. Doing the jobs that we actually want them to do
:54:47. > :54:52.rather than managing these rallies. So the police should have more power
:54:52. > :54:59.in some circumstances to an them? Identity they should ban them in
:54:59. > :55:04.situations other than the one that Craig pointed out. The EDL are
:55:04. > :55:09.causing trouble and disruption and they are causing the taxpayers a
:55:09. > :55:13.huge expense. The Home Secretary has banned some marchers in certain
:55:13. > :55:17.circumstances. In Bradford two or three years ago, recently in London,
:55:17. > :55:22.why not give police and crime commission is that power to say that
:55:22. > :55:29.there is a serious risk of public disorder, demonstration should not
:55:29. > :55:32.go ahead? I don't quite know if it is their role to do that, but when
:55:32. > :55:41.police are evaluating each of the marchers demonstrations that go
:55:41. > :55:46.ahead, they do do exactly that. You determine -- they take into
:55:46. > :55:53.consideration the safety of the town 's residents. They already do have
:55:53. > :55:58.powers to control these marchers much better than sometimes they are.
:55:58. > :56:00.Sarah Champion, you were critical of the EDL, but why do you think many
:56:00. > :56:06.people from working class communities are drawn to these kind
:56:06. > :56:12.of far right protests? It is a difficult question and one that
:56:12. > :56:16.perplexes me. Really, the message they are getting across is one of
:56:16. > :56:21.England, being proud about England, but I don't think they are that
:56:21. > :56:26.honest about what they are doing. It is a false message they are giving
:56:26. > :56:29.across. If people knew they are talking about racial intolerance,
:56:29. > :56:32.violence against other groups, I'm not entirely sure that people would
:56:32. > :56:42.be supporting them. Let's get some more of the week's political news
:56:42. > :56:47.
:56:47. > :56:50.now. Cathy Killick has our round-up A reprieve the children's heart
:56:50. > :56:54.surgery in Yorkshire. The Health Secretary said a five-year review of
:56:54. > :57:00.services across the country was flawed and the NHS had to think
:57:00. > :57:08.again. That gives a better chance that the Leeds unit to put its case,
:57:08. > :57:14.according to a campaign and mother. Hopefully it will be based on a more
:57:14. > :57:18.factual point of view. A campaign was launched to public at
:57:18. > :57:24.-- publicise awareness of grooming and sexual exportation of young
:57:24. > :57:27.girls. The council stands accused of complacency. The council in charge
:57:27. > :57:31.of children's services at the time has now been elected police
:57:31. > :57:39.Commissioner. More should have been done.
:57:39. > :57:44.That, I would apologise. One of the latest Yorkshire -based museums said
:57:44. > :57:49.to be under threat. MPs have caused but -- called for an urgent
:57:49. > :57:53.parliamentary debate. So, the Leeds children's heart
:57:53. > :57:56.campaigners have won their battle for now, but how do we know the next
:57:56. > :58:01.review won't come up with the same conclusion that that unit should
:58:01. > :58:04.close? We don't, but we are certain that the review that will come up
:58:04. > :58:14.will be fair and transparent, all the things that did not happen in
:58:14. > :58:17.the last review. You mentioned earlier about people on the
:58:17. > :58:21.committee that had their own personal agendas and interest, and
:58:21. > :58:31.that cannot be right. The amount of pressure put on by a huge righty of
:58:31. > :58:37.people, not least cross-party group of MPs from West Yorkshire --
:58:37. > :58:43.variety, they don't have any choice. The key argument made in the review
:58:43. > :58:48.about fewer centres of clinical excellence remains, there is still a
:58:48. > :58:51.strong argument that, isn't there? understand the logic and we want the
:58:51. > :58:55.best services we can get, but it seems very curious that had these
:58:55. > :58:59.plans gone ahead, the whole of the East Coast of the country would not
:58:59. > :59:05.have access to a children's heart unit. The other thing people don't
:59:05. > :59:08.recognise is that there is a huge stress and trauma put on parents. I
:59:08. > :59:11.used to run a children's hospice and I had some of those parents who were
:59:11. > :59:16.distraught, they didn't know if they would have a service, where they
:59:16. > :59:22.were meant to be going. Also, the staff in that hospital have known if
:59:22. > :59:28.they are going to have to relocate. It has been handled very poorly and
:59:28. > :59:33.it has put an awful lot of stress on a lot of people. So, three Yorkshire
:59:33. > :59:37.museums are under threat, we understand. The National Railway
:59:37. > :59:41.Museum in York, the nicht -- National Media Museum and the
:59:41. > :59:49.National coal mining Museum. Will we have any decent museums left in
:59:49. > :59:55.Yorkshire? I am sure we will. People understand and know that there are
:59:55. > :59:59.further cuts to come in in the next announcement in the next couple of
:59:59. > :00:09.weeks, and this is people pre-empting what Mailman -- what may
:00:09. > :00:14.or may not happen. This is clearly a case of the Museum group pre-empting
:00:14. > :00:18.what may or may not happen and of course putting a bit of political
:00:18. > :00:22.pressure of their own. And do we have to accept in these difficult
:00:22. > :00:26.financial times that the museums and the arts will not get the kind of
:00:26. > :00:31.funding they did in the past? are they picking on us? Why are we
:00:31. > :00:34.getting all the cut is up here? I came from an arts background and I
:00:34. > :00:41.want to tell people how important the arts and culture are to our
:00:41. > :00:45.history. It is how we define ourselves and celebrate ourselves.
:00:45. > :00:50.Something like the coal mining Museum to disappear, how can that
:00:50. > :00:54.possibly happen? Our heritage would be wiped out. Yes, there are cuts,
:00:54. > :01:04.but please keep our history. When you look at the rate down the
:01:04. > :01:04.
:01:04. > :01:14.science moved serum -- science Museum group, most of them are based
:01:14. > :01:20.in the South. Is there a north-south divide? Again, I think this is a
:01:20. > :01:30.case of pre-empting what may or may not happen. This is making sure we
:01:30. > :01:32.
:01:32. > :01:35.get our own museums protected. you accept museums of this kind,
:01:35. > :01:41.although they might take a lot of taxpayers money, they bring in a lot
:01:41. > :01:47.of the economy? It is huge amounts. Sarah just mentioned the National
:01:47. > :01:57.coal mining Museum. It brings a tremendous amount of people that
:01:57. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :02:03.would not normally come up. problem is, if these museums close,
:02:03. > :02:07.that is it. We have lost that resource that ever. There is not the
:02:07. > :02:15.money to reopen them. We really need to be protecting our culture in
:02:15. > :02:20.these times. What are your plans for the week ahead? Will it be a busy
:02:20. > :02:26.week at Westminster? I think it is a fairly quiet week in regards to
:02:26. > :02:34.business next week. What about labour not taking part in this boat
:02:34. > :02:38.in Europe? I think this is a very political theme that is going on.
:02:38. > :02:44.The whole thing is designed to expose the flaws in the coalition
:02:44. > :02:50.and also to put a divide between all the parties. It is a game going on
:02:50. > :02:54.and I hope the public can see through it. This is not a game. This
:02:54. > :02:59.is real. My mailbag is full of people from the Culver Valley
:03:00. > :03:03.wanting a decision. I believe we should stay in Europe but we need to
:03:03. > :03:08.have a national intelligent open debate about the pros and cons of