:00:00. > :00:36.the Pennines. The best of the sunshine through the afternoon.
:00:36. > :00:43.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed
:00:43. > :00:49.Morning, folks. Welcome to the rest of the Labour
:00:49. > :00:52.Morning, folks. Welcome to the galore. But as a Sunday Politics
:00:52. > :00:55.poll finds a third of his own councillors don't think he's doing a
:00:55. > :01:00.good job, will that be enough to steady the Labour ship?
:01:00. > :01:02.Back in Westminster, they're partying like it's 2006, as Damian
:01:02. > :01:08.McBride's memoirs re-ignite the Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell
:01:08. > :01:13.will tell us why he is sickened by the former Brown spin doctor.
:01:13. > :01:15.And speaking of political infighting, Conservative Party
:01:15. > :01:16.Chairman Grant Shapps will give his response to the rampant Tory-bashing
:01:16. > :01:30.at the Lib Dem Conference And And in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire:
:01:30. > :01:33.The glowing problem of loneliness. Research finds that more and more
:01:33. > :01:37.people are over the two thirds of the ethnic
:01:37. > :01:44.minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they
:01:44. > :01:49.right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:53.business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians
:01:54. > :01:57.throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.
:01:57. > :02:02.Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.
:02:02. > :02:05.Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and
:02:05. > :02:11.spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's
:02:11. > :02:13.critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:13. > :02:23.that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:23. > :02:29.It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be
:02:29. > :02:35.a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that
:02:35. > :02:41.we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for
:02:41. > :02:46.young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are
:02:46. > :02:53.being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for
:02:53. > :02:54.Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think
:02:54. > :02:59.about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think
:02:59. > :03:02.taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference
:03:02. > :03:13.with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.
:03:13. > :03:20.conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we
:03:20. > :03:25.surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted
:03:25. > :03:26.to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:26. > :03:32.The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:32. > :03:40.week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great
:03:40. > :03:43.week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think
:03:43. > :03:49.Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the
:03:49. > :03:58.party would have a better chance if next election. You will see more of
:03:58. > :04:08.Ed Miliband as we run-up to general election. He has been in the job for
:04:08. > :04:13.three years! Now it is crunch time. The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked
:04:13. > :04:20.by roughly one third of the party as well. Ed Balls is not a pop your
:04:20. > :04:31.man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.
:04:31. > :04:36.diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not seem to be that bothered about our
:04:36. > :04:44.survey. Over at a conference centre When it comes to relations with
:04:44. > :04:49.trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were
:04:49. > :04:53.absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little
:04:53. > :04:58.bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.
:04:59. > :05:03.The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle
:05:03. > :05:11.from London to raise money for councillors what they would do if
:05:11. > :05:16.the next election results in a hung parliament, just over half said
:05:16. > :05:16.the next election results in a hung would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:16. > :05:21.their bikes. We would never say would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:21. > :05:32.to going into coalition. It gives us the chance to be in government and
:05:32. > :05:38.Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted
:05:38. > :05:44.that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It
:05:44. > :05:46.that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of
:05:46. > :05:53.warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief
:05:53. > :06:03.Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start
:06:03. > :06:11.with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called
:06:11. > :06:17.the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet
:06:17. > :06:26.do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back
:06:26. > :06:34.socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have
:06:34. > :06:38.socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's
:06:38. > :06:42.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:43. > :06:49.Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all
:06:49. > :06:54.policies that I think the country are calling out for after three
:06:54. > :07:05.years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than
:07:05. > :07:08.years of a flat-lining economy and Minister. I think that is the most
:07:08. > :07:14.important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again
:07:14. > :07:19.as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working
:07:19. > :07:24.people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have
:07:24. > :07:28.always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for
:07:28. > :07:33.working people, not the privileged few like this government with their
:07:34. > :07:39.tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is
:07:39. > :07:49.about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your
:07:49. > :07:52.run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour
:07:52. > :08:01.councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he
:08:01. > :08:03.councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds
:08:03. > :08:08.of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds
:08:08. > :08:14.right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of
:08:14. > :08:22.Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is
:08:22. > :08:28.the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he
:08:28. > :08:37.is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this
:08:37. > :08:41.with Labour Party people and will also resonate with the British
:08:41. > :08:48.public. Policies like expanding apprenticeships, giving a break
:08:48. > :08:50.public. Policies like expanding struggling. I think people will
:08:50. > :08:53.public. Policies like expanding what kind of a leader that he is.
:08:53. > :09:02.Well he has a mountain to climb among all voters. Let me ask the
:09:02. > :09:08.question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just
:09:08. > :09:10.question. Just 12% see him as a see him as a natural leader. Why? If
:09:10. > :09:14.question. Just 12% see him as a you look at the overall opinion
:09:14. > :09:20.polls, we are consistently ahead in those polls. It is hard being leader
:09:20. > :09:26.demonstrate how you would be Prime Minister. By nature you are in
:09:26. > :09:32.opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.
:09:32. > :09:38.That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you
:09:38. > :09:42.That is strong leadership, standing at his reforms to our relationship
:09:42. > :09:48.with the trade unions, strengthening ties with individual members. I
:09:48. > :09:51.think that he is a strong leader making the right decisions. If that
:09:51. > :09:57.is the case, why has the Labour making the right decisions. If that
:09:57. > :10:09.gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went
:10:09. > :10:13.are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as
:10:13. > :10:14.are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if
:10:14. > :10:18.there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if
:10:18. > :10:24.we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.
:10:24. > :10:25.we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:25. > :10:29.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:30. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:52.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:52. > :10:56.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:56. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:05.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:12.can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they
:11:12. > :11:18.their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under
:11:18. > :11:23.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:23. > :11:28.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:28. > :11:37.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:37. > :11:40.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in night and it will not cost any more
:11:41. > :11:49.money in the last Labour government. night and it will not cost any more
:11:49. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:03.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:03. > :12:07.where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If
:12:07. > :12:09.where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that
:12:09. > :12:11.where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free
:12:11. > :12:19.schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital
:12:19. > :12:26.spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:29.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools
:12:29. > :12:32.when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:32. > :12:37.course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:37. > :12:42.fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important
:12:42. > :12:48.thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls
:12:48. > :12:55.and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was
:12:55. > :12:59.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was
:12:59. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that
:13:09. > :13:19.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:19. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:38.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:38. > :13:43.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:43. > :13:51.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:51. > :13:55.should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made
:13:55. > :14:01.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a
:14:01. > :14:10.hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:10. > :14:17.That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings
:14:17. > :14:22.of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they
:14:22. > :14:24.want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:24. > :14:39.that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:39. > :14:41.serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:41. > :14:44.a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:44. > :14:55.we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this
:14:55. > :15:01.week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think
:15:01. > :15:05.they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery
:15:05. > :15:10.has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike
:15:10. > :15:24.previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to
:15:24. > :15:26.make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The
:15:26. > :15:29.make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they
:15:29. > :15:32.make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue
:15:32. > :15:36.let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls
:15:36. > :15:43.show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards
:15:43. > :15:45.show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:45. > :15:48.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:49. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:56.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:56. > :16:02.fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the
:16:02. > :16:09.economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's
:16:09. > :16:12.economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just
:16:12. > :16:18.incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy
:16:18. > :16:26.for an opposition leader is to have something to attack, the media
:16:26. > :16:31.something to scrutinise and it makes you bold rubble and you can see
:16:31. > :16:32.something to scrutinise and it makes coming through already before the
:16:32. > :16:42.conference has started. You have childcare. Spigot can he provide
:16:42. > :16:47.wraparound childcare for free? childcare. Spigot can he provide
:16:48. > :16:56.can he provide wraparound childcare for free? I don't even know what it
:16:56. > :16:59.is. Opposition is emphatically an art form, and the art form, and
:16:59. > :17:00.artform for them at the moment is to artform for them at the moment is to
:17:00. > :17:05.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:05. > :17:09.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:23.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:23. > :17:28.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:28. > :17:32.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:32. > :17:37.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:37. > :17:41.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:41. > :17:44.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:44. > :17:47.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :18:00.their conference, Nick Clegg had supported, which seem to be the
:18:00. > :18:02.their conference, Nick Clegg had important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:06.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:06. > :18:10.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:13.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:13. > :18:15.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:15. > :18:17.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:17. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:33.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:33. > :18:39.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:39. > :18:42.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:42. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:50.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have
:18:50. > :18:51.the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly
:18:51. > :18:56.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:56. > :18:58.enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why
:18:58. > :19:01.policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:18.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:18. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:20. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:20. > :19:23.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:23. > :19:25.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:25. > :19:34.any more. We haven't been used to it 90s into the 21st century, the
:19:34. > :19:42.policy matter delayed the Labour Party dominated. -- the Labour party
:19:42. > :19:46.dominated. We are now here but we have other parties hoping that
:19:46. > :19:48.dominated. We are now here but we will give them a small overall
:19:48. > :19:50.majority and it is the best they can get. It is a very odd situation
:19:50. > :19:55.where the main two parties feel get. It is a very odd situation
:19:55. > :20:02.can lose and the Lib Dems are openly targeting only 25%. They have gotten
:20:02. > :20:08.rid of 75% already and it is a long way from the policies of last couple
:20:08. > :20:13.of decades Nick Clegg talked about all of the policies he had locked.
:20:13. > :20:16.There is a real opportunity for all of the policies he had locked.
:20:16. > :20:19.Conservatives to say that he is blocking all of the things that
:20:19. > :20:23.voters outside of our bays are interested in, top immigration
:20:23. > :20:28.policy, human rights reform, that sort of thing. David Cameron can say
:20:28. > :20:43.that in Manchester next week. One thing was quite clear, it came out
:20:43. > :20:47.of this awayday, and and this is this, that when you look at Mister
:20:47. > :20:51.Miller band's polls, the Tories this, that when you look at Mister
:20:51. > :21:05.going to make this a presidential Which is why I am curious why they
:21:05. > :21:09.against his opponents, why not have him or her juxtaposed against them
:21:09. > :21:17.in 90 minutes three times a week. past week has given us inklings
:21:17. > :21:23.When the Lib Dems gathered for their Government is planning on fighting
:21:23. > :21:26.When the Lib Dems gathered for their annual shindig in Glasgow, some
:21:26. > :21:31.ministers were non-too complimentary about their blue blood fellows.
:21:32. > :21:36.ministers were non-too complimentary bedfellows. Vince Cable led the
:21:36. > :21:38.ministers were non-too complimentary Tories had reverted to type as a
:21:38. > :21:44.nasty party and describe their politics as ugly, cynical, callous
:21:44. > :21:47.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not restrict himself to policies that
:21:47. > :21:49.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not the Lib Dems had champion, such
:21:49. > :21:54.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not increasing the amount you can earn
:21:54. > :22:00.before paying tax. The Deputy Prime Minister proudly listed all of the
:22:00. > :22:03.things he had stopped the Tories from doing. Speak of scrapping
:22:03. > :22:09.housing benefit the young people, no. No to ditching the human rights
:22:09. > :22:16.act. No to weakening the protections in the equalities act. So how much
:22:16. > :22:18.of a break have the yellow brigade being on Conservative ambitions
:22:19. > :22:22.question mark in the two leaders shake hands again after the 20
:22:22. > :22:26.question mark in the two leaders election, what policies were David
:22:27. > :22:32.Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg
:22:32. > :22:48.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:48. > :22:53.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:53. > :22:57.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:57. > :22:59.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:23:00. > :23:03.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:03. > :23:06.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:06. > :23:10.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:12.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:12. > :23:15.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:15. > :23:25.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:25. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:36.get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:36. > :23:37.done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:37. > :23:40.70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:40. > :23:43.70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party
:23:43. > :23:49.running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They
:23:49. > :23:54.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you
:23:54. > :23:56.Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were
:23:56. > :24:02.Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:02. > :24:06.the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:06. > :24:16.the European Court of human rights. Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:16. > :24:19.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:19. > :24:24.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:24. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:30. > :24:35.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:35. > :24:40.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:40. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:57.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:57. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:04.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:04. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:47.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:47. > :25:49.what it has done, it has provided stability in an incredibly uncertain
:25:49. > :25:53.economic time and that has been stability in an incredibly uncertain
:25:53. > :26:07.for the economy. we will chalk that up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about
:26:07. > :26:10.taking people out of tax, the Lib Dems did that question mark it is a
:26:10. > :26:21.great policy. It is a conservative led government, it is a Conservative
:26:21. > :26:25.This is a screen grab from your party's website, income tax cut
:26:25. > :26:27.This is a screen grab from your 25 million people. You are taking
:26:27. > :26:30.the credit for it, it wouldn't have happened without the Lib Dems. It
:26:30. > :26:33.certainly came about because of happened without the Lib Dems. It
:26:33. > :26:36.coalition and we put it in the coalition agreement. It could not
:26:36. > :26:41.have happened without a Conservative Chancellor making it happen. It
:26:41. > :26:45.have happened without a Conservative right, 25 million people taken out
:26:45. > :26:51.of tax. Another 17 by this April will not be paying tax at all. you
:26:51. > :26:52.didn't want to do it. Look at what David Cameron told Nick Clegg during
:26:52. > :27:07.What Nick Clegg is promising is David Cameron told Nick Clegg during
:27:07. > :27:12.£17 billion tax cut. We are saying, stop the waste of 6 billion to stop
:27:12. > :27:18.the national insurance rise. I would love to take everyone out of their
:27:18. > :27:28.beautiful idea but we cannot afford unaffordable and now you are taking
:27:28. > :27:32.the credit for it. I feel like it is having a three year afterwards
:27:32. > :27:34.argument, and we got into coalition because the British people put us
:27:34. > :27:38.there and we agreed to make the because the British people put us
:27:38. > :27:43.of it. And as it happens, if you absolutely think it is the right
:27:43. > :27:48.thing to take as many people out of tax entirely as possible. Two points
:27:48. > :27:54.7 million people pay no tax at all threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm
:27:54. > :27:59.pleased it worked out. What are threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm
:28:00. > :28:05.most important thing is a majority Tory government would do after
:28:05. > :28:08.most important thing is a majority unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I
:28:08. > :28:11.think produce even more jobs when unemployment goes down, because
:28:11. > :28:14.think produce even more jobs when are the most entrepreneurial place
:28:14. > :28:20.to set up a business. Are more free-market economy? We make our
:28:20. > :28:26.money because we are out global trading economy. That is why it
:28:26. > :28:26.money because we are out global so important that we have to make
:28:26. > :28:30.sure it is easy to trade around so important that we have to make
:28:30. > :28:34.world. One simple example, it is crazy in my view that we have global
:28:34. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:37. > :28:37.hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the
:28:37. > :28:43.world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the
:28:43. > :28:49.versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be
:28:49. > :28:57.versa. I'm giving you a platform of sounds like you are talking about
:28:57. > :28:59.versa. I'm giving you a platform of agendas. I think that you did a
:28:59. > :28:59.versa. I'm giving you a platform of amount to show this country that if
:28:59. > :29:03.you want to help the least well amount to show this country that if
:29:03. > :29:07.people in society, and the least well off people in the world, around
:29:07. > :29:09.the globe, the way to do it is to trade, and I think we should have an
:29:09. > :29:14.economy which is much more open trade, and I think we should have an
:29:14. > :29:16.free trade. If there is another trade, and I think we should have an
:29:16. > :29:21.parliament, and the poll suggest there might be, at the moment it is
:29:21. > :29:26.all to play for on both sides, what would your non-negotiable Red Line
:29:27. > :29:34.speak? We are still two years away from that, it is a long way away,
:29:34. > :29:38.but there is a lot we want to lay out. What we are going to be saying
:29:38. > :29:42.to this country is most people want a single party running the country,
:29:42. > :29:48.they think it is clean and clear and you don't end up with negotiation
:29:48. > :29:49.setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working
:29:50. > :29:53.people in this country who want which will be for hard-working
:29:53. > :29:57.work hard and get on in life. We would, I think, want to see the
:29:58. > :30:01.welfare state that we have got into, where it is no longer about helping
:30:01. > :30:05.those most in need but became a situation where you are better off
:30:05. > :30:10.not working than in worker, I think we plan to ensure that this is an
:30:10. > :30:14.incredibly fair place to go out and do a day's work and get the money at
:30:14. > :30:18.the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.
:30:18. > :30:20.you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:20. > :30:27.must be your membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:27. > :30:35.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:38.poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,
:30:38. > :30:46.a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the
:30:46. > :30:50.EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and
:30:50. > :30:55.comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:55. > :31:01.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:01. > :31:04.want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future
:31:04. > :31:10.coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to have
:31:10. > :31:16.a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:17. > :31:22.no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project
:31:22. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the
:31:26. > :31:31.negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how
:31:31. > :31:41.much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:48.Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you
:31:48. > :31:55.feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most
:31:55. > :32:01.vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.
:32:01. > :32:05.And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so
:32:05. > :32:19.much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether
:32:19. > :32:25.with Mr King? I do not think it is terribly helpful for any Cabinet
:32:25. > :32:30.minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg
:32:30. > :32:37.minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and
:32:37. > :32:45.entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on
:32:45. > :32:50.party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr
:32:50. > :32:57.Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world
:32:57. > :33:03.has changed. People do not rush out and join political parties as they
:33:03. > :33:10.used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the
:33:10. > :33:15.number of people who give to the party in different ways, through
:33:15. > :33:24.donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include
:33:24. > :33:26.that that figure goes back up. But your membership has fallen by 50% at
:33:26. > :33:36.a time when UKIP has doubled. your membership has fallen by 50% at
:33:36. > :33:44.not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to gain
:33:44. > :33:47.members. I think we will have done that by the time of the next
:33:47. > :33:54.election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had
:33:54. > :34:00.a 17,000 majority in my own constituency. The difference was I
:34:00. > :34:05.had 1000 people helping me to deliver leaflets and knock on the
:34:05. > :34:14.doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of
:34:14. > :34:20.people, volunteers who are not necessarily traditional members. The
:34:20. > :34:26.days when you expect people to give you £25, before you accept their
:34:26. > :34:33.support, those days have passed. You spoke about your most vulnerable
:34:33. > :34:40.marginal seats. This is a poll from Michael Ashcroft. The 40 most
:34:40. > :34:49.marginal seats that you will be defending. Labour is way up, you are
:34:49. > :34:58.way down and UKIP is also up. What is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- both
:34:58. > :34:59.are moving to Labour. And disillusioned Conservatives are
:35:00. > :35:03.moving to UKIP. If these figures disillusioned Conservatives are
:35:03. > :35:09.came at an election he would disillusioned Conservatives are
:35:09. > :35:13.of these 40 seats. The point about any opinion poll is that it is
:35:13. > :35:19.perhaps accurate at the moment it is taken. We are now in a position
:35:19. > :35:30.where the economy has turned the corner. The right thing to do was to
:35:30. > :35:35.deal with the deficit. The people being asked about these things, they
:35:35. > :35:42.will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:42. > :35:49.payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League
:35:49. > :35:56.you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:35:57. > :36:01.come 2015, people will see that this government has stuck to its guns. It
:36:01. > :36:07.did not go for more borrowing and spending. And the record
:36:07. > :36:12.demonstrates that the last thing you want to do is give the car keys back
:36:12. > :36:17.to the people who crashed it in the first place. Lynton Crosby at this
:36:17. > :36:25.away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and
:36:25. > :36:31.attack Ed Miliband. It is going to be a nasty election. That is
:36:31. > :36:34.actually not true. We are going to focus on his policies, if he finally
:36:34. > :36:38.announces some. Everything we have focus on his policies, if he finally
:36:38. > :36:47.seen so far suggests it more borrowing and spending. The
:36:47. > :36:55.shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,
:36:55. > :37:05.27.9 pounds of extra spending committed by Labour. These are your
:37:05. > :37:09.figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.
:37:09. > :37:15.It's just after 11:30. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:37:15. > :37:17.up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair Campbell gives us his
:37:17. > :37:29.not-too-positive review of Damian McBride's memoirs. Until then,
:37:29. > :37:36.Good morning, you are watching the Sunday politics the Yorkshire and
:37:36. > :37:41.Lincolnshire. We've left the studio to come out on the road because we
:37:41. > :37:47.are talking about a growing problem of loneliness. Research into
:37:47. > :37:51.Yorkshire cities has found a growing number of people are living isolated
:37:51. > :37:56.lifestyles, and the government is being urged to take action. What
:37:56. > :38:01.ever is been said from the top—down is really affecting individuals, but
:38:01. > :38:09.they're scared talk about it. Today, we've come to a district of York,
:38:09. > :38:16.one of the areas chosen by the Joseph Rowntree
:38:16. > :38:18.research into loneliness. We're joined by a panel of people
:38:18. > :38:23.including politicians, researchers and some local people who say they
:38:23. > :38:28.are the victims of economic isolation. First, let's find out
:38:28. > :38:37.more about this research from Louise Martin.
:38:37. > :38:41.As more families split up and more live to a ripe old age, there is
:38:41. > :38:45.growing recognition within government that loneliness is a
:38:45. > :38:50.critical health and social concern. For one in time, it is a serious
:38:50. > :38:55.issue. The Joseph Rowntree foundation wanted to know more.
:38:55. > :38:59.Loneliness kills communities and individuals. You are twice as likely
:38:59. > :39:09.to die prematurely if you experience loneliness. The organisation
:39:09. > :39:14.selected for areas in Yorkshire. Over three years, 32 residents were
:39:14. > :39:21.trained to investigate loneliness and question 500 people across each
:39:21. > :39:26.of the four areas. Dad 's of relatives and disease were key
:39:26. > :39:33.factors. Researchers found government policies were mixed in
:39:34. > :39:38.with the causes as well. It was the people in the post offices and
:39:38. > :39:42.libraries that knew these lonely people. Those front line services
:39:42. > :39:50.actually caught those people and helped put the safety net in place.
:39:51. > :39:55.layer is now missing, and it's how we fill the gap. Communities are in
:39:55. > :40:01.a good place to help do the preventative staff, but that
:40:01. > :40:06.intervention, that support, that body in system and those sorts of
:40:06. > :40:13.things, somebody being able to check things ROK has been taken away.
:40:13. > :40:18.Government policy is affecting everybody here. What's been said
:40:18. > :40:21.from the top—down is really affecting individuals but they are
:40:21. > :40:27.scared to talk about it because of the fear of what other people might
:40:27. > :40:34.of them, so they're trying to cope, and a lot are struggling. Just the
:40:34. > :40:39.fact that there are opportunities and we're giving them opportunities
:40:39. > :40:42.to earn talk about that, spaces to feel safe and loved and like they
:40:42. > :40:48.can be themselves. I think that's really important, because there is
:40:48. > :40:53.very much and need to show you are someone else. We actually have to
:40:53. > :40:56.take steps to give people the confidence to talk to their
:40:56. > :41:02.neighbours, to engage in activities and put those stepping stones back
:41:02. > :41:06.in place. The research indicates those stepping stones back to
:41:06. > :41:11.greater well—being are being undermined by policy makers. For
:41:11. > :41:15.instance, unemployed volunteers for community projects are having
:41:15. > :41:23.benefits stopped. Health and safety regulations kill off community
:41:23. > :41:27.off meeting up with each other. Back in the 90s when I started, you were
:41:27. > :41:33.able to set up a local group and everybody could bring tea, milk and
:41:33. > :41:37.biscuits. Those opportunities aren't available now. We're having to rely
:41:37. > :41:41.on children's centres which are disappearing, schools, churches, but
:41:41. > :41:48.even knows the cities are now having charge. There is a real cut in
:41:48. > :41:55.services. That is a real issue. There are more people but do
:41:55. > :41:58.resources to go around. —— but fewer resources. There are a lot of mental
:41:58. > :42:04.health issues because of what is happening in the community. The
:42:04. > :42:08.research findings will doubtless be controversial. They fuel the debate
:42:08. > :42:11.over the role of the state and whether individuals and communities
:42:11. > :42:15.need nannying. Some interesting talking points
:42:15. > :42:19.there. Let's pick up on a couple of them with Tracy from the Joseph
:42:19. > :42:24.Rowntree foundation. That statistic about being twice as likely to die
:42:24. > :42:32.prematurely if you are lonely, many will be shocked by that. Yes. What
:42:32. > :42:38.is even more worrying is it also causes increased risks of dementia
:42:38. > :42:42.and cardiovascular disorder. The reasons the loneliness are manifest.
:42:42. > :42:48.Things like the health and safety culture, what's that about? What
:42:48. > :42:49.we've discovered is people are quite happy to set up preventative things,
:42:49. > :42:56.but there is intervening in people 's lives.
:42:56. > :43:01.There is a real fear of knocking on your neighbour's door in case you
:43:01. > :43:05.don't know who they are. This regulation has killed off kindness.
:43:05. > :43:11.Sarah Champion is the Labour MP for Rotherham. How big a problem is
:43:11. > :43:16.loneliness from your point of view? Unfortunately, it is a huge national
:43:16. > :43:21.problem. And it is increasing. People are feeling more vulnerable.
:43:21. > :43:28.People are being told they are scroungers if they are on benefit
:43:28. > :43:32.which is segregating our society. Philip is the Conservatives
:43:32. > :43:37.Parliamentary candidate for Halifax. Does a lot of this fall at the
:43:37. > :43:40.government's door? I don't think so. This government is doing more
:43:40. > :43:48.than any other in terms of getting people back into work, creating new
:43:48. > :43:52.jobs. It is a bigger picture. We need a holistic approach by society.
:43:52. > :43:56.It's not just the government. Everybody needs to be involved in
:43:56. > :44:01.this programme of picking up people who are lonely and getting them
:44:01. > :44:05.involved in society. Let's hear from some of the people who took part in
:44:05. > :44:29.this research on loneliness by the Joseph Rowntree foundation. I come
:44:29. > :44:38.from a council estate. I've been in 18 different houses. We moved around
:44:38. > :44:40.a lot as kids. I joined a group called the Joseph Rowntree
:44:40. > :44:48.Foundation at school. I joined because I wanted to change my
:44:48. > :44:52.community. A lot of jobs now expect you to work weekends, when there is
:44:52. > :44:58.not a lot of childcare available. Or if it is, it is a lot more
:44:58. > :45:03.expensive. I had a lot of bereavement around the age of 14 to
:45:03. > :45:07.16. You sit back and think, what a lonely life I've had. I didn't
:45:07. > :45:12.realise I was that lonely. There are parts of your life where you might
:45:12. > :45:18.not recognise you are lonely. We only earn a little bit more than the
:45:18. > :45:21.benefits and we cannot even get free prescriptions. This community is
:45:21. > :45:26.struggling. There are not opportunities out there. You think,
:45:26. > :45:31.you have to take that job. My husband has to work and he is
:45:31. > :45:38.struggling. He comes home after 13 hour shifts. I cannot afford
:45:38. > :45:44.childcare. I have to pay for the childcare, it's too expensive. A lot
:45:44. > :45:48.of it is down to childcare. People cannot get the qualifications to get
:45:49. > :45:50.into employment. And if they had the qualifications, they couldn't get
:45:50. > :45:55.into employment because they couldn't afford the childcare. Let's
:45:55. > :46:06.pick up on a few of those points. Childcare seems to feature quite
:46:06. > :46:09.heavily. What's your name? Heidi, tell us about your personal
:46:09. > :46:14.circumstances. My partner works during the day and I work in the
:46:14. > :46:20.evening to avoid childcare costs. I have two children. If I wanted to
:46:20. > :46:25.work during the day, I would have to find a job that fell during school
:46:25. > :46:34.hours. If I got a job that was ten until 2pm, at four hours at minimum
:46:34. > :46:41.wage, I would only earn £24 80. A full day in a nursery is £40 because
:46:41. > :46:45.she would overlap the morning and afternoon slot, so you would have to
:46:45. > :46:52.pay for the full day. So I would only £13. If tax credits contributed
:46:52. > :46:58.towards that, even if I got the £13, technically, I am sending my
:46:58. > :47:04.child to nursery for nothing, really, because I get nothing from
:47:04. > :47:09.that. If I could get her in the just and afternoon or morning, you are
:47:09. > :47:26.still talking £19, so I'm still only left with £5 84 days work. So it's
:47:26. > :47:29.not worth your while. It's not. This is one of the big problems
:47:29. > :47:33.underneath this government. It is clear that women who want more
:47:33. > :47:38.flexibility in their working life or just want to start their career back
:47:38. > :47:41.again after having children, they are being penalised. We need better
:47:41. > :47:48.childcare provision, and it needs to be more access above. People on low
:47:48. > :47:51.incomes should ideally have free childcare because for the economy to
:47:51. > :47:59.keep going, we need these people to be working. What you think of that
:47:59. > :48:02.solution? It is part of the solution, but there are a number of
:48:02. > :48:06.issues. The cost of childcare is more expensive in this country than
:48:06. > :48:11.many other countries. We need to deal with that, so the government
:48:11. > :48:15.needs to bring those out quickly. The whole issue of people working,
:48:15. > :48:19.we need flexibility within the workplace, but we also need a
:48:19. > :48:24.flexible workforce. This lady is a good example, she is troubling
:48:25. > :48:33.backlit juggling around with her partner so that it works. —— she is
:48:33. > :48:40.juggling things with her partner so that it works. That's great, but a
:48:40. > :48:44.lot of people are single parents, they don't have that social
:48:44. > :48:48.structure around them. That is exactly what this loneliness
:48:48. > :48:53.research has proved, that people are moving for work, they are losing
:48:53. > :48:56.that social structure. Whereas once the Church of voluntary groups would
:48:56. > :49:00.be there, they are just not any more. The reason is, they are not
:49:00. > :49:03.getting the funding from the government anymore. Well, it is
:49:03. > :49:10.partly government funding, but there are single parents to group together
:49:10. > :49:14.and they take turns with childcare. So there is a bit of effort in terms
:49:14. > :49:17.of being organised and a bit more need for structure than was before,
:49:17. > :49:23.but we cannot always have the government coming along bailing
:49:23. > :49:28.out. We're not talking about bailing out, we talking about the foundation
:49:28. > :49:31.years of children. These are the most important. The children to be
:49:31. > :49:35.able to go on and have a good education and get employment, they
:49:35. > :49:40.need those foundation year is protected. We accept all of that.
:49:40. > :49:43.This week, the government has announced breakfast the children in
:49:43. > :49:48.their early years. That is recognition of that. But the fact
:49:48. > :49:52.is, the country can only afford what it can afford. We need to have a
:49:52. > :49:57.little bit more flexibility in terms of understanding so people can work
:49:57. > :50:01.weekends and do other things. I want to speak to Angela who took part in
:50:01. > :50:06.this research. Some up for us what you found. We've been doing the
:50:06. > :50:12.independent evaluation of the programme. Picking up on the
:50:12. > :50:16.childcare issue, the way the programme is operated has created a
:50:16. > :50:20.safe space for parents to go with their children, with facilities,
:50:20. > :50:27.where they can get skills that not only make them employable, but make
:50:27. > :50:31.them able to go out and get a job. Many will associate loneliness with
:50:31. > :50:35.something that is perhaps exclusively associated with elderly
:50:35. > :50:45.people. But that is not the case. No, my work has probed
:50:45. > :50:48.focused on Bradford, an inner—city area with different cultures. We
:50:48. > :50:55.found loneliness affects every single group, and particularly
:50:56. > :51:00.children, which is a real surprise. Although children have families and
:51:00. > :51:03.support, they are feeling isolated and lonely at home. They feel they
:51:03. > :51:11.have nowhere to go, nobody to talk to. Clearly, a big problem in parts
:51:11. > :51:14.of York as well as Bradford. Christian, you are a Conservative
:51:14. > :51:22.councillor in this city. Why is it such a big problem in your city? We
:51:22. > :51:29.have to look across society rather than just writing a blank check that
:51:29. > :51:35.we will pay more and more. It's about people coming together,
:51:35. > :51:42.working, exactly the sort of people we want to encourage. It is about as
:51:42. > :51:47.making a system where she can work. We can't just leave the system of
:51:47. > :51:50.tax credits which totally distorts that system. Heidi, tell us what you
:51:50. > :51:56.think of what you've heard so far from the politicians. To be honest,
:51:56. > :52:00.I don't have any family in York so I cannot rely on family to look after
:52:00. > :52:05.my children. I'm not asking that everything gets paid, I'm just
:52:05. > :52:11.asking for it to be a bit cheaper. Do you know what I mean? Just more
:52:12. > :52:17.affordable. As the parents helping each other out,
:52:17. > :52:22.ways but it's not really, because parents can't actually look after
:52:22. > :52:28.other people's children. It is all about childminding. You come again
:52:28. > :52:33.to the holidays, and we have eight children between us. Is it all right
:52:33. > :52:41.there a need to look after eight children? It's not, not when you get
:52:41. > :52:48.to the holidays. The government is polishing a raft of new policy
:52:48. > :52:54.announcement —— promising, but Ed Miliband has recently had criticism
:52:54. > :52:59.from some big hitters. It's been a tricky few months that
:52:59. > :53:06.Ed Miliband in the bruising world of politics. Some of Labour's big
:53:06. > :53:10.hitters have been critical of his leadership. John Prescott said
:53:10. > :53:17.Labour had massively failed to get its case over to the public during
:53:17. > :53:21.the summer. I always welcome advice, including from our former
:53:21. > :53:26.deputy leader. I think Labour was talking about the right issues, and
:53:26. > :53:31.that is the cost of living crisis. So many are struggling and yet they
:53:31. > :53:34.have a government who is saying, the economy is healing, everything is
:53:34. > :53:41.fine. We're saying, we think Britain could be doing better. If Labour
:53:41. > :53:45.were to form the next government, the party would have to win back
:53:45. > :53:51.seats like this one from the Conservatives. So
:53:51. > :53:54.actually know about what Ed Miliband stands for? Who is that? That is Ed
:53:54. > :54:01.Miliband, the leader of the Labour Party. Do you know much about him
:54:01. > :54:05.and his policies? Not really. I know he doesn't put on self out very
:54:05. > :54:11.well, so that's why I don't want his stuff. He is believed —— the leader
:54:11. > :54:20.of the Labour Party. What deceased and for? —— what does he stand for?
:54:20. > :54:27.Lots of things. We don't agree with them all. I can't think of them now.
:54:27. > :54:33.I don't think they've announced many really about Europe. Many voters
:54:33. > :54:38.don't seem to know anything about your policies are what you stand for
:54:38. > :54:42.in Lincoln. Does that bother you? I do think that's true, but I think
:54:42. > :54:46.there's a real opportunity at our conference to focus on the thing
:54:46. > :54:52.that matters, the thing we care about, which is how we sort this
:54:52. > :54:57.living crisis out. I hope that is what voters in Lincoln and elsewhere
:54:57. > :55:00.would see. But Ed Miliband has revealed one new policy
:55:00. > :55:04.announcement, what Labour calls the bedroom tax, and what the government
:55:04. > :55:08.calls the spare room subsidy, would be scrapped if Labour win the next
:55:08. > :55:11.election. The policy has led to thousands of tenants with one or
:55:11. > :55:17.more spare room is losing some of their housing benefit. I think it's
:55:17. > :55:24.a really important commitment. We are going to end the boardroom tax
:55:24. > :55:28.loopholes and use that money to help end the bedroom tax. We will help
:55:28. > :55:33.80,000 families across our region. I think other people think it's fair.
:55:33. > :55:37.Most of the people are disabled people, people are falling behind
:55:37. > :55:40.with their rents, facing eviction. That's not just bad for them, it
:55:40. > :55:46.means they have to be housed somewhere else. So I think it is the
:55:46. > :55:50.right thing to do. While Labour remain ahead of the Tories in the
:55:50. > :55:53.opinion polls, some question whether Ed Miliband will be able to land the
:55:53. > :56:00.killer punch come the general election in 2015.
:56:00. > :56:02.Let's ask Sarah Champion, Labour MP for Rotherham, is Ed Miliband
:56:03. > :56:08.struggling to get his message across? No, I don't think so at
:56:08. > :56:12.all. I know the media and some of my colleagues are putting that spin
:56:12. > :56:17.out, but we are very much a united party. We know where we're going. We
:56:17. > :56:22.are looking to create equality. I think he's doing a really good job.
:56:23. > :56:26.Let's get some reaction from our conservative guests. Ed Miliband is
:56:26. > :56:30.talking about the cost of living being the big theme of his
:56:30. > :56:35.conference. The economy might be improving, but the feel—good factor
:56:35. > :56:39.isn't there, is it? I think it is coming back. The economy has gone
:56:39. > :56:44.through a dreadful recession. We're now seeing growth, there is 29.5
:56:44. > :56:50.million people working, which is a high figure. There are 1.3 million
:56:50. > :56:58.new jobs being created in the public sector. And there is growth
:56:58. > :57:03.economy. Not a lot, but it is in the right direction. Labour is talking
:57:03. > :57:06.to activists rather than the country. We're turning the economy
:57:06. > :57:11.around. Everything is getting better. It is going to be a tough
:57:11. > :57:15.journey, but we're in the right direction. The problem is, all the
:57:15. > :57:21.economists say that if we done nothing, the economy would be where
:57:21. > :57:25.it is now. So, in effect, you haven't done anything, even just
:57:25. > :57:29.kept ticking along. Any grape is to be welcomed, but it is not anywhere
:57:29. > :57:34.near enough, and all these people here are feeling the pinch. I think
:57:34. > :57:38.we are all feeling the pinch, but new proper jobs are being created
:57:38. > :57:42.within the economy, and the government is going in the right
:57:42. > :57:45.direction. It's never going to be easy. The government could have
:57:45. > :57:49.certainly spend more money, but you have to bear in mind that at the
:57:49. > :57:58.moment, that every Bond pound it spends, 20p of that is borrowed. If
:57:58. > :58:02.Labour go back on his spending boom again... But hard—working families
:58:02. > :58:06.in York are still feeling the pain. But we know why they are feeling the
:58:06. > :58:12.pain, it is because Labour left with unprecedented debts. A world
:58:12. > :58:17.recession might have had a bit of an impact? ! I did it into you, Sarah.
:58:17. > :58:23.I feel sorry for people at the conference you have to pretend that
:58:23. > :58:32.Ed Miliband has the answers. This government is dragging people up,
:58:32. > :58:38.not down. I'm incredulous! Unfortunately, the facts don't bear
:58:38. > :58:43.out any of this. Wages are down by 8% under this government. Living
:58:43. > :58:52.costs are taking a hammering. The wealth has a point to make about
:58:52. > :59:00.loneliness? My name is Gemma. I'm a mum of two Mac. I want to go back to
:59:00. > :59:03.the comment about limited funds for the government paying childcare. But
:59:04. > :59:10.the more people we can get back into work and with childcare means that
:59:10. > :59:14.more people are paying taxes and putting back into the government, so
:59:14. > :59:18.it is swings and roundabouts. We will put in if you can help us get
:59:18. > :59:21.there. And this is the problem. People are not looking for a
:59:21. > :59:24.hand—out but under this government they are made to feel that they
:59:24. > :59:31.should be embarrassed that asking for help. Tracy, let's skip the last
:59:31. > :59:35.word to you. What do politicians out there need to be doing to tackle
:59:35. > :59:44.this problem of loneliness? I think they can really help by the ——
:59:44. > :59:48.reducing the contradictory messages. Like, it's OK for parents
:59:48. > :59:53.to look after other people's children, but then it's not, because
:59:53. > :59:57.the regulation prevents that. I think the stepping stones are
:59:57. > :00:01.missing. We've got three of our community researchers who had jobs
:00:01. > :00:07.because of this programme, but that took years to build up their
:00:07. > :00:13.conference and —— confidence and skills levels. Thank you for coming
:00:14. > :00:18.to speak to us today. That's it from us this week. Back to Andrew in
:00:18. > :00:32.London. us this week. Back to Andrew in
:00:32. > :00:33.much. Leafing through the papers the us this week. Back to Andrew in
:00:33. > :00:38.last few days has taken me back us this week. Back to Andrew in
:00:38. > :00:41.my youth. The halcyon days of the 2000s, when the warring Blairite and
:00:41. > :00:44.Brownite tribes fought over who should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:44. > :00:47.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:47. > :00:48.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his
:00:48. > :00:57.enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the
:00:57. > :00:59.enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:59. > :01:02.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:02. > :01:07.Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he
:01:07. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:14.called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:14. > :01:20.called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:20. > :01:28.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:28. > :01:32.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:32. > :01:42.in a way that will be -- will be partly the fact that he has done it
:01:42. > :01:51.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:59.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:59. > :02:04.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:04. > :02:08.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:08. > :02:15.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:15. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:26.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:26. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:35.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:35. > :02:40.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:41. > :02:48.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:48. > :02:51.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:52. > :02:58.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:58. > :03:04.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:04. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:12.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:12. > :03:18.players. That is why I am angry If we had all stuck together I think
:03:18. > :03:25.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:25. > :03:30.undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is
:03:30. > :03:39.inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:43.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:43. > :03:51.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:04.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:04. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:28. > :04:41.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:41. > :04:53.the reasons why I do despise what associated with, once I wrote a
:04:53. > :05:03.actually within the government, associated with, once I wrote a
:05:03. > :05:08.had a principle of maximum openness and trust. Anyone could come to
:05:08. > :05:11.had a principle of maximum openness morning meetings on condition that
:05:11. > :05:16.what was discussed their state as part of the team. I had to say to
:05:16. > :05:21.Gordon Brown, your people are not coming. Because I knew where it
:05:21. > :05:25.Gordon Brown, your people are not coming from. Did you know that the
:05:25. > :05:30.time but Charles Clarke and others were effectively being destroyed
:05:30. > :05:37.from within the Labour government? I certainly knew that they thought
:05:37. > :05:40.that. I did know journalists telling me that that was what was happening.
:05:40. > :05:51.Ultimately, this is why I never me that that was what was happening.
:05:51. > :05:58.leaders, it is ultimately up to me that that was what was happening.
:05:58. > :06:02.litre. Possibly in a different age Gordon Brown would have been an
:06:02. > :06:09.amazing Prime Minister. He was a great chancellor. But he had a
:06:09. > :06:14.flaw, this need for truly horrible people to be around him doing truly
:06:14. > :06:18.horrible things in politics and giving him and the Labour Party
:06:18. > :06:18.horrible things in politics and politics a bad name. That is why I'm
:06:19. > :06:25.still angry about Damian McBride. politics a bad name. That is why I'm
:06:25. > :06:31.still angry about Damian McBride. What do you make of it? The current
:06:31. > :06:32.administration is a contrast. We have rival factions occupying the
:06:33. > :06:39.same offices but they still get have rival factions occupying the
:06:39. > :06:43.The only time they have a row is when something really big happens.
:06:44. > :06:51.But with that one party in Downing Street there was fighting the whole
:06:51. > :07:03.time. Did Ed Balls know about this. I would assume so. I spoke with
:07:03. > :07:07.time. Did Ed Balls know about this. about it at the time. He told me at
:07:07. > :07:17.the time that he had spoken about it with Gordon Brown. So I think there
:07:17. > :07:18.was a concern from within that camp about some of these activities at
:07:18. > :07:29.equivalence, in life you expect about some of these activities at
:07:29. > :07:34.see that there is full on both sides. But I do not buy it in this
:07:34. > :07:37.see that there is full on both case. If you look at the testimonies
:07:37. > :07:39.see that there is full on both over the years, what you can surmise
:07:40. > :07:45.about the character of Gordon Brown and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately
:07:45. > :07:48.driven by Gordon Brown and the people around him. The Blairites did
:07:48. > :07:58.things but they did then by way people around him. The Blairites did
:07:58. > :08:01.The one-time when I did lose it people around him. The Blairites did
:08:01. > :08:04.the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period
:08:04. > :08:10.when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period
:08:10. > :08:13.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:13. > :08:20.colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your
:08:29. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:29. > :08:40.promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:40. > :08:44.before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in
:08:44. > :08:49.opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:49. > :08:57.This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:57. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:16.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:16. > :09:23.particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.
:09:23. > :09:34.And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,
:09:34. > :09:36.And start to heart -- start to hit yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:43.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by
:09:43. > :09:51.wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too
:09:51. > :09:55.much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that
:09:55. > :10:04.with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole
:10:04. > :10:11.bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even
:10:11. > :10:13.campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won
:10:13. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:20.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:20. > :10:28.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:28. > :10:35.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:35. > :10:42.reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I
:10:42. > :10:47.reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:57.around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.
:10:57. > :11:09.Why is that, is it cultural? I think Cameron was right to go for minimum
:11:09. > :11:19.unit pricing and wrong to do a reversal. 6% of alcoholics get
:11:19. > :11:26.treatment. I expect that drugs are a problem but we spent £2 billion
:11:26. > :11:28.treatment. I expect that drugs are a 100,000 problem drug takers and
:11:28. > :11:28.treatment. I expect that drugs are a million on 1.6 million problem
:11:28. > :11:42.have written this book about a young million on 1.6 million problem
:11:42. > :11:45.alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in the first person. People could think
:11:45. > :11:56.you are writing about yourself. did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:06.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:22.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:22. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:39.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:39. > :12:47.advertisements for gambling and advertising. How have we allowed
:12:47. > :12:57.this to happen, ? We are just awash with it. What we did I think on
:12:57. > :13:03.Availability and price either too means by which you can bring this
:13:03. > :13:13.down. And the country that has had the biggest success on this is
:13:13. > :13:20.Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very much for that. That's all for today.
:13:20. > :13:24.Thanks to all our guests. I'll be with live coverage of Labour Party
:13:24. > :13:27.Conference, including the speech from the man who wants to be the
:13:27. > :13:29.next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday