:00:20. > :01:45.With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be
:01:45. > :01:48.tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the
:01:48. > :01:55.show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the
:01:55. > :02:02.Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been
:02:02. > :02:06.bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for
:02:06. > :02:10.married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending
:02:10. > :02:13.cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of
:02:13. > :02:19.the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of
:02:19. > :02:24.next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working
:02:24. > :02:33.people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical
:02:33. > :02:34.family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:34. > :02:42.asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:42. > :02:46.mortgage payment, but they can't 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:46. > :02:51.flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while
:02:51. > :02:52.people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own
:02:52. > :02:58.flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own
:02:58. > :03:02.is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to
:03:02. > :03:05.kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls
:03:05. > :03:10.show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent
:03:10. > :03:26.numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their
:03:26. > :03:36.For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we
:03:36. > :03:43.asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors
:03:43. > :03:46.asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at
:03:46. > :03:48.home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there
:03:48. > :03:55.are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there
:03:55. > :04:02.immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of
:04:02. > :04:08.our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and
:04:08. > :04:18.Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --
:04:18. > :04:23.Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK
:04:23. > :04:26.Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative
:04:26. > :04:31.councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The
:04:31. > :04:40.concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't
:04:40. > :04:43.concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is
:04:43. > :04:50.concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they
:04:50. > :04:50.concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends
:04:50. > :05:06.what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,
:05:06. > :05:11.from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in
:05:11. > :05:14.Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from
:05:14. > :05:23.London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory
:05:24. > :05:29.councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of
:05:29. > :05:32.ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge
:05:32. > :05:34.people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where
:05:34. > :05:38.they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where
:05:38. > :05:40.problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where
:05:40. > :05:42.side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those
:05:42. > :05:49.words. Explain your T-shirt, it like that, I would not use those
:05:49. > :05:58.phrase that a senior Cameron person is alleged to have used about you?
:05:58. > :06:01.phrase that a senior Cameron person party now that we are here to say
:06:01. > :06:06.important. We are not going away any time soon. A sentiment you will
:06:06. > :06:08.important. We are not going away any a lot at this conference, because
:06:08. > :06:12.just 22% of councillors in our survey said that David Cameron was
:06:12. > :06:19.any good at listening to the people that work hard for his party. That
:06:19. > :06:24.was Adam. Joining me now from the Conservative Party conference in
:06:24. > :06:33.William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Good morning. Over one in
:06:33. > :06:36.five Tory councillors in our survey support a pact with UKIP at the
:06:36. > :06:39.five Tory councillors in our survey election. Why do you think that
:06:39. > :06:41.five Tory councillors in our survey If it is one in five, it means a
:06:41. > :06:46.large majority did not want a pact with UKIP at the next election.
:06:46. > :06:47.large majority did not want a pact have noticed that UKIP, in local
:06:47. > :06:50.elections, has been receiving votes, some of which would otherwise have
:06:50. > :06:58.been for the Conservatives. I think we have to make sure that people
:06:58. > :07:00.election they are choosing between a Conservative and Labour Government,
:07:00. > :07:01.as David Cameron as Prime Minister or Ed Miliband. If people want to
:07:02. > :07:07.get a referendum on Europe, the or Ed Miliband. If people want to
:07:07. > :07:12.Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a
:07:12. > :07:15.general election is different from the local government perspective. It
:07:15. > :07:20.is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of
:07:20. > :07:23.one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition
:07:23. > :07:23.one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an
:07:23. > :07:37.three times as many didn't want with a smaller party before an
:07:37. > :07:41.with statistics, you can highlight it whichever way around you want to.
:07:41. > :07:46.The point is, we are not having pacts with other parties, electoral
:07:46. > :07:49.pacts with other parties. You rule it out? That is not going to happen.
:07:49. > :07:52.What we do want is to have a pact it out? That is not going to happen.
:07:52. > :07:58.with the voters, if you like, as we have often done in the Conservative
:07:58. > :08:02.Party. We have won over the voters of other parties to support our
:08:02. > :08:05.important with those people that say important with those people that say
:08:05. > :08:09.they want to vote for UKIP. By default, they would produce a Labour
:08:09. > :08:14.government in the exact opposite of many of the things they intend,
:08:14. > :08:15.government in the exact opposite of Conservative and decide to vote
:08:15. > :08:18.government in the exact opposite of UKIP instead in a general election.
:08:19. > :08:25.That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the
:08:25. > :08:29.That could help to produce a Labour committee, the elected voice of
:08:29. > :08:33.Conservative backbenchers, he says your party should spell out what had
:08:33. > :08:38.once back from the European Union before next year's European actions.
:08:38. > :08:44.Do you agree? We will be spelling out some things in the European
:08:44. > :08:53.elections. I will be talking about this later on today. For instance,
:08:53. > :08:58.European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in
:08:58. > :09:06.believed in. We would like that ever closer union, a concept that in
:09:06. > :09:09.that. We will be setting out the examples and principles of the
:09:09. > :09:14.changes we want to say. Certainly over the next year, not only before
:09:14. > :09:16.the European actions but the general election, if you are saying, let
:09:16. > :09:22.have the exact list of anything election, if you are saying, let
:09:22. > :09:24.negotiate, that is difficult because there will be a negotiation of a new
:09:24. > :09:29.deal in Europe if David Cameron there will be a negotiation of a new
:09:29. > :09:37.election. To some extent, that has to be negotiated. Only 11% of your
:09:37. > :09:40.own councillors feel that people in their area think that George Osborne
:09:40. > :09:50.is in touch with ordinary people. is not for me to explain why people
:09:51. > :09:55.say what they say in surveys. The important thing is what we are
:09:55. > :10:00.delivering for the country. What George Osborne is delivering his
:10:00. > :10:05.renewed economic growth. 1.4 million new jobs in the private sector,
:10:05. > :10:06.renewed economic growth. 1.4 million for hard-working people, by reducing
:10:06. > :10:09.the tax for 25 million of them. for hard-working people, by reducing
:10:09. > :10:14.Help To Buy scheme that we are highlighting today. That is what
:10:14. > :10:19.really matters to people, actually, I think you will find. Let's talk
:10:19. > :10:25.about helping ordinary people. Ed Miliband is guilty freeze energy
:10:25. > :10:29.prices. What are you going to do about energy prices, we already
:10:29. > :10:45.asked energy companies to put people on their lowest tariffs. This has
:10:45. > :10:51.Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going
:10:51. > :10:58.to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened
:10:58. > :11:01.now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not
:11:02. > :11:07.happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of
:11:07. > :11:10.Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened
:11:10. > :11:16.under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in
:11:16. > :11:19.opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big
:11:19. > :11:23.change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is,
:11:23. > :11:30.change in oil prices then the policy would dry up some of the investment
:11:30. > :11:33.in the energy industry. I don't think it is a credible promise.
:11:33. > :11:33.in the energy industry. I don't a party that presided over council
:11:33. > :11:40.tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council
:11:40. > :11:46.tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,
:11:46. > :11:48.tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George
:11:48. > :11:52.Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the
:11:52. > :11:56.European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the
:11:57. > :12:01.they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular
:12:01. > :12:05.issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives
:12:05. > :12:08.and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We
:12:08. > :12:12.should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have
:12:12. > :12:18.never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have
:12:18. > :12:21.European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be
:12:21. > :12:25.decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be
:12:25. > :12:26.there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We
:12:26. > :12:32.are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We
:12:32. > :12:36.competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was
:12:36. > :12:41.meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in
:12:41. > :12:51.Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing
:12:51. > :12:56.the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing
:12:56. > :13:00.company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it
:13:00. > :13:08.back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own
:13:08. > :13:10.Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are
:13:10. > :13:13.free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are
:13:13. > :13:16.free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are
:13:16. > :13:21.any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's
:13:22. > :13:26.recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the
:13:26. > :13:29.energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to
:13:29. > :13:33.fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre
:13:33. > :13:36.fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed
:13:36. > :13:39.Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested
:13:39. > :13:47.interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the
:13:47. > :13:56.record. I just did! 1.4 million Help To Buy scheme which is going to
:13:56. > :14:03.help so many people, particularly young people have the house that
:14:03. > :14:08.future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to
:14:08. > :14:11.work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working
:14:11. > :14:32.While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians
:14:32. > :14:37.weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week
:14:37. > :14:45.to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why
:14:45. > :14:48.to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words
:14:48. > :14:52.- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign
:14:52. > :14:57.Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that
:14:57. > :15:04.will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We
:15:04. > :15:07.negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to
:15:07. > :15:12.whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we
:15:12. > :15:17.are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as
:15:17. > :15:20.are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When
:15:20. > :15:29.will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next
:15:29. > :15:34.will we know if he is not just more transparency over the Iranian
:15:34. > :15:40.transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking
:15:40. > :15:47.for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming
:15:47. > :15:51.information? The information that the international of authority is
:15:51. > :15:55.asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form
:15:55. > :16:01.a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test
:16:01. > :16:09.their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they
:16:10. > :16:15.asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really
:16:15. > :16:22.negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,
:16:22. > :16:31.what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the
:16:31. > :16:36.Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution
:16:36. > :16:44.we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the
:16:44. > :16:50.Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter
:16:50. > :16:53.Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does
:16:53. > :17:05.that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for
:17:05. > :17:13.in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about
:17:13. > :17:18.terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security
:17:18. > :17:24.Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if
:17:24. > :17:33.the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent
:17:33. > :17:38.counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something
:17:38. > :17:43.you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely
:17:43. > :17:49.to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress
:17:49. > :17:53.that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of
:17:53. > :18:08.Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason
:18:08. > :18:14.credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a
:18:14. > :18:14.credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it
:18:14. > :18:21.through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it
:18:21. > :18:25.the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the
:18:25. > :18:30.policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military
:18:30. > :18:33.action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it
:18:33. > :18:44.the House of Commons was to have changed on theirs. That is why it
:18:44. > :18:50.inspectors reported. It was before Russian and Syrian policy changed.
:18:50. > :19:02.We need to make sure that works Russian and Syrian policy changed.
:19:02. > :19:07.practice. Thank you. What do you make about this rushing forward
:19:07. > :19:11.with the help to buy scheme which was meant to start next year -
:19:11. > :19:24.coming forward mad to the next couple of weeks? I think it is a
:19:24. > :19:30.Government having an interest in mortgage lending. -- there is a
:19:30. > :19:35.fundamental problem. It should have been set much lower to exclude
:19:35. > :19:41.London and the South East where houses are dramatically overvalued.
:19:41. > :19:46.Many economists think freezing energy prices is a terrible policy.
:19:46. > :19:50.These policies can be popular. If you have no chance of getting a
:19:50. > :20:01.deposit, the Government will make Osborne tried every single lever.
:20:01. > :20:07.It looked like he could not do anything to get the economy moving.
:20:07. > :20:16.It is moving. They have pulled it forward and there are signs it is
:20:16. > :20:18.It is moving. They have pulled it this week at the conference there
:20:18. > :20:22.are real sort of understandable issues you can explain very simply
:20:22. > :20:32.that really up going to improve people's lives. The Conservatives
:20:32. > :20:35.Miliband's speech last week. The language used by David Cameron this
:20:35. > :20:49.nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price
:20:49. > :20:54.freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on
:20:54. > :21:02.that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism
:21:02. > :21:04.to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will
:21:04. > :21:10.be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will
:21:10. > :21:18.about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the
:21:18. > :21:20.political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities
:21:20. > :21:26.standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities
:21:26. > :21:31.below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with
:21:31. > :21:31.below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing
:21:31. > :21:43.against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing
:21:43. > :21:54.before the Labour conference, which not pay energy bills. Does not
:21:54. > :22:00.sound that the Tories have anything not pay energy bills. Does not
:22:00. > :22:02.to counter the price freeze. -- not pay energy bills. Does not
:22:02. > :22:07.does not sound. They have had a week to think about a great attack
:22:07. > :22:09.line and they do not add anything. They have just said, the lights
:22:09. > :22:32.the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike
:22:32. > :22:33.the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able
:22:33. > :22:52.it is about credibility. Being seen as serious and grown-up is worth
:22:52. > :22:52.it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.
:22:52. > :23:01.with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement
:23:01. > :23:06.with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins
:23:06. > :23:12.to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last
:23:12. > :23:14.week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue
:23:14. > :23:19.to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue
:23:19. > :23:22.how much people are being hit in the pockets. People
:23:22. > :23:25.how much people are being hit in prices are going up.
:23:25. > :23:27.how much people are being hit in structural change in the world that
:23:27. > :23:31.how much people are being hit in was not there before - China and
:23:31. > :23:35.India. These energy companies may be making huge profit but, at the
:23:35. > :23:42.end of the day, what is driving up the cost of fuel is China and India.
:23:42. > :23:47.Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the
:23:47. > :23:54.people Sammir on that one. How dare you! -- the People's Army. Ed
:23:54. > :23:56.Miliband came out fighting at Labour's Conference in Brighton
:23:56. > :23:59.last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style
:23:59. > :24:02.and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength
:24:02. > :24:05.of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to
:24:05. > :24:11.position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader
:24:11. > :24:13.told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the
:24:13. > :24:17.vested interests that hold back our up to the strong and take on the
:24:17. > :24:22.economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as an
:24:22. > :24:24.action hero, Mr Miliband promised to switch the forthcoming business
:24:24. > :24:29.action hero, Mr Miliband promised tax cut from large firms to smaller
:24:29. > :24:32.businesses. He said he would force big firms to train at an apprentice
:24:32. > :24:38.every time they bring in a worker from outside the EU. He hinted that
:24:38. > :24:44.increasing the minimum wage would be increased. He bowed to take on
:24:44. > :24:50.developers with a use it or lose it threat to landowners and pledged to
:24:50. > :24:55.build 200,000 homes each year by 2020. He promised to freeze energy
:24:56. > :24:59.prices and reset the energy market. The next Labour
:24:59. > :25:04.prices and reset the energy market. freeze gas and electricity prices
:25:04. > :25:09.until the start of 2017. That provoked a rash of headlines -
:25:09. > :25:14.hailing the return of red Ed macro. It has also given him a spike in
:25:14. > :25:16.the polls. And Labour's Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint
:25:16. > :25:25.joins me now for the Sunday Interview.
:25:25. > :25:34.Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In
:25:34. > :25:40.what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left
:25:40. > :25:45.behind in 2010? We have six companies that dominate the energy
:25:45. > :25:52.sector. It is the same. They generate energy, and sell it on to
:25:52. > :25:55.us. What we recognise and Ed Miliband recognised when he was
:25:56. > :25:58.Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company
:25:58. > :26:01.Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,
:26:01. > :26:05.all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a
:26:05. > :26:08.warm front programme and everything else has not dealt with the
:26:08. > :26:15.fundamental problem that the Horsell market is too secretive and
:26:15. > :26:18.it is too much about such supply. - - the wholesale market. We have
:26:19. > :26:25.been raising with the Government in a co-operative way the argument for
:26:25. > :26:28.resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which
:26:28. > :26:33.prices have gone up. Labour put worse in terms of speed at which
:26:33. > :26:37.wholesale and retail together. It worse in terms of speed at which
:26:37. > :26:40.was the start this dates back to Margaret Thatcher and the
:26:40. > :26:45.privatisation. We took some reforms to reset the market. We have
:26:45. > :26:50.realised it was not working and it was broken and we need to reset it.
:26:50. > :26:55.Ed Miliband will be the first to say we did not do enough from 2005
:26:55. > :27:00.onwards. Let's have a look at what happened to energy prices under the
:27:00. > :27:08.Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up
:27:08. > :27:14.by 48%. The market was broken and the Government as well. From 2005,
:27:14. > :27:21.we saw prices biking as wholesale prices went up. The tick action on
:27:21. > :27:28.the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we
:27:28. > :27:33.took action on per warm front programme. Trying to do things
:27:33. > :27:38.around social obligations needs to be looked at. Gas and electricity
:27:39. > :27:43.bills are high partially as a consequence of the market you
:27:43. > :27:49.presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look
:27:49. > :27:55.at the breakdown of dual fuel - gas and electricity bill. -- let's have
:27:55. > :28:02.a look. The supply costs of getting it to us and so on. The policies
:28:02. > :28:06.that were introduced by your government - Green levies - are
:28:06. > :28:13.adding almost 10% to has told energy bills. £112 on average
:28:13. > :28:21.adding almost 10% to has told of 1188. You have put the bill up.
:28:21. > :28:28.Eight -- social and green obligations amount to £112. That
:28:28. > :28:32.helps the poorest insulate homes. Overwhelmingly, looking at your
:28:32. > :28:36.graph and the figures I have, wholesale costs are worth more than
:28:36. > :28:43.half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,
:28:43. > :28:52.a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.
:28:52. > :28:57.Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that
:28:57. > :29:02.off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.
:29:02. > :29:09.It is important that restimulate the opportunity to grow clean
:29:09. > :29:12.energy. It -- we stimulate. If we do not have clean energy, we will
:29:12. > :29:18.be beholden for ever-more to fossil do not have clean energy, we will
:29:18. > :29:22.fuels that are depleting. It will create jobs and bring in investment
:29:22. > :29:28.will start in the last few years, we have seen investment in
:29:28. > :29:33.renewable energy half. -- in investment. If I could go back to
:29:33. > :29:38.competition in the markets, whatever advance there are, looking
:29:38. > :29:41.at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy
:29:41. > :29:44.efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it
:29:44. > :29:48.efficiency, is that doing as well delivered by another agency?
:29:48. > :29:51.efficiency, is that doing as well are fair questions. We need to get
:29:51. > :29:55.ahead of that and look at the market. Can we make the market will
:29:55. > :29:59.competitive make sure when there is downward pressure on wholesale
:29:59. > :30:04.prices, that is reflected on our bills? That is the bigger picture
:30:04. > :30:13.argument. Also the freeze to help people during that period.
:30:13. > :30:19.As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your
:30:20. > :30:23.actions. Ed Miliband introduced the climate change act. He admitted
:30:23. > :30:29.prices would have to rise to pay for decarbonisation. He said, we are
:30:29. > :30:32.going to minimise the costs as much as possible, but it is true there is
:30:32. > :30:37.not a low-cost energy future out there. It is important that we
:30:37. > :30:40.address the pressures on bills, but also recognise that if we are going
:30:40. > :30:42.to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British
:30:42. > :30:48.energy and, in the long-term, cheaper, we need to invest in
:30:48. > :30:52.renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge
:30:52. > :30:59.eyes what you say about the 112. I am not going to disagree. But
:30:59. > :31:08.wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in
:31:08. > :31:13.bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging
:31:13. > :31:16.customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the
:31:16. > :31:22.amount of investment suggested by those profits coming through. But
:31:22. > :31:24.amount of investment suggested by that £125 is going to get worse,
:31:24. > :31:29.because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will
:31:29. > :31:33.have a world leading commitment in Government to take out all carbon
:31:33. > :31:37.from energy generation by 2030. That is not that far away. By 2030, no
:31:37. > :31:43.more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive
:31:43. > :31:47.nuclear and much more expensive renewables. It cannot be done
:31:47. > :31:53.without bills going up even further? Hang on a second. The 2030 target to
:31:53. > :31:56.remove carbon from the electricity supply, we have said we should set a
:31:56. > :32:00.target now because, actually, it gives us more time to plan ahead and
:32:00. > :32:03.also allows investment to come in. There is plenty of people with cash
:32:03. > :32:08.in their pockets not want to invest what they are stalling because of
:32:08. > :32:12.the Government's hesitancy over this. I just want a clarification
:32:12. > :32:16.here. My understanding is that your commitment is to get rid of all
:32:16. > :32:22.carbon from power generation by 2030? From the letters city supply.
:32:22. > :32:27.Only electricity. We will still have gas? We have always said we will
:32:27. > :32:37.need gas for decades to come. So we are clear for that. But you will be
:32:37. > :32:41.increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding
:32:41. > :32:48.twice the market price to build plans in this country. Renewables
:32:48. > :32:51.are two or three times the market price. Bills are going up under your
:32:51. > :32:57.policies, and the coalition policies? On nuclear,
:32:57. > :33:00.policies, and the coalition that we needed to revitalise the
:33:00. > :33:05.sector, to hit targets on clean that we needed to revitalise the
:33:05. > :33:08.energy and make sure it can do the heavy lifting. The Government at the
:33:08. > :33:11.present time are engaged in heavy lifting. The Government at the
:33:11. > :33:14.discussions with EDF about what the strike price should be. It's
:33:14. > :33:18.important, because I don't know what it's going to be, it is important
:33:18. > :33:24.that stands up to scrutiny in terms of value for money. At the same
:33:24. > :33:31.time, I go back to market reforms. We will not just have a target for
:33:31. > :33:35.difference, the jargon for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as
:33:35. > :33:38.well. That is even more important, that we have a transparent market so
:33:38. > :33:44.that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael
:33:44. > :33:47.Gove recognised in question time that the market was not working. The
:33:48. > :33:55.Telegraph said in its editorial, they used the term cosy cartel. We
:33:55. > :33:58.have former advisers to David Cameron saying something needs to be
:33:59. > :34:04.done. I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't acknowledge that. You are
:34:04. > :34:08.going to freeze prices for 20 months and will come up with a new
:34:08. > :34:10.regulator to replace Ofgem. Will that regulator have the power to
:34:10. > :34:17.regulator to replace Ofgem. Will control prices? The new energy
:34:17. > :34:19.watchdog will have a strategy responsibility to monitor the
:34:19. > :34:21.wholesale costs and prices, which it currently doesn't have at the
:34:21. > :34:26.moment. As a result of that it will currently doesn't have at the
:34:26. > :34:31.have the power that, if the wholesale prices fall, it can force
:34:31. > :34:37.the energy companies, if they don't, to pass on reductions in
:34:37. > :34:41.the energy companies, if they don't, see in some parts of the European
:34:41. > :34:45.Union, 15 of them, that have a variety of price controls that set
:34:45. > :34:51.things at below inflation and what have you. France, Spain, Italy. It
:34:51. > :34:54.will not do that. Why? Because we are looking at a temporary price
:34:54. > :34:57.freeze to reflect a reduction in are looking at a temporary price
:34:57. > :35:01.wholesale prices, to give the British public respite from ever
:35:02. > :35:05.climbing bills while they get reforms into the market. At the end
:35:06. > :35:10.of this, what we want is a more competitive market that can be
:35:10. > :35:14.trusted, that is more transparent. We do believe it is right that,
:35:14. > :35:18.actually, we need a regulator that has much more of a role in making
:35:18. > :35:26.sure the market is managed effectively. Are you accusing energy
:35:26. > :35:31.companies of profiteering? EU I am accusing them of overcharging and
:35:31. > :35:42.not passing on wholesale reduction costs to the customer in a fair way.
:35:42. > :35:48.Of making Carter -- cartel profits? I do believe that the level of
:35:48. > :35:51.profits they have passed on to their shareholders is high, compared to
:35:51. > :35:55.the reductions they could have provided to consumers. Let's look at
:35:55. > :36:01.the evidence for that. Here are the British owned companies, SSE and
:36:01. > :36:03.Centrica. In the last fiscal year they made combined earnings of £4
:36:03. > :36:10.billion. But they they made combined earnings of £4
:36:10. > :36:15.billion. The remaining money went to debt servicing and paying dividends,
:36:15. > :36:18.which go into pension funds. Where in these figures is the
:36:18. > :36:28.profiteering? My figures that I got through their reporting to Ofgem and
:36:28. > :36:33.work done by other organisations, Witch and others, it shows that in
:36:33. > :36:38.Centrica's case they have something like 8% return in profit margins on
:36:38. > :36:41.the retail side. That goes up to 24% on the generation side. They have
:36:41. > :36:46.passed on, in terms of profits, something I70 4% through evidence to
:36:46. > :36:54.shareholders. But these figures don't show that. They have invested
:36:54. > :36:59.£3 billion. I am reporting what has been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has
:36:59. > :37:03.not accused them of property in. They may well be, but we don't have
:37:03. > :37:06.the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem of not doing the job they should be
:37:06. > :37:12.doing, and they have held back from tackling the issue. It is
:37:12. > :37:16.acknowledged, across the sector, across the big six, something like
:37:16. > :37:21.50% of profits has gone over to dividends to shareholders. In
:37:21. > :37:24.Centrica's case it is 74%. On the Centrica example, even though they
:37:24. > :37:32.have had the highest profit margins, they have invested the least. It is
:37:32. > :37:36.fair to question. We are running out of time. None of us really know what
:37:36. > :37:39.the true price of energy is that is Labour's policy to reform his
:37:39. > :37:47.crucial. That is because he merged Labour's policy to reform his
:37:47. > :37:51.freeze, if they don't invest in a way that they do, do you rule out
:37:51. > :37:56.wholesale nationalisation? Absolutely. I want a more
:37:56. > :38:00.competitive market and that is why we are resetting it. You are
:38:00. > :38:04.watching Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes I will be
:38:04. > :38:14.looking at the week ahead with our political panel
:38:14. > :38:19.Hello, good morning you're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire
:38:19. > :38:21.and Lincolnshire. Coming up today...David Cameron tells us the
:38:21. > :38:31.government will investigate claims that workers on zero—hours contracts
:38:31. > :38:37.are being exploited. Our guest today are Diana Johnson,
:38:38. > :38:45.Labour MP for whole north, and also Chris Hopkins, the Conservative MP
:38:45. > :38:49.for Keighley. And Godfrey Bloom, who is now an independent MEP after he
:38:50. > :38:54.decided he would no longer be standing for UKIP in the European
:38:54. > :39:00.Parliament. Was it something you said? It might have been. So, you
:39:00. > :39:04.are going to stand as an independent right up until the elections next
:39:04. > :39:11.year, but you will remain a UKIP member. I will, as long as they
:39:11. > :39:16.allow me to remain a UKIP member. We will talk about recent events later
:39:16. > :39:21.in the programme. Chris Hopkins, Labour had
:39:21. > :39:26.conference last week. How does your party respond to that? There was an
:39:26. > :39:31.interesting thing is that the Labour Party said. Ed Miliband had some
:39:31. > :39:38.interesting ideas. Most of them fell over just a few hours later. The big
:39:38. > :39:46.one for me was Ed Miliband talking about the freeze on energy prices.
:39:46. > :39:50.There is some real merit in having that conversation. Possibly not the
:39:50. > :39:55.brightest move was to actually give a heads up to those industries out
:39:55. > :40:01.there that in two years time, if he was in power, he would freeze the
:40:01. > :40:07.prices. Diana Johnson, what do you make of these claims that your party
:40:07. > :40:11.has lurched sharply to the left? Well, the energy announcement was
:40:11. > :40:15.about being on the side of customers and businesses as well, saying that
:40:15. > :40:21.the market currently is not working and we need to reset it, to get a
:40:21. > :40:27.new regulator in, and to get prices down to a fair level. So we are on
:40:27. > :40:31.the side of customers and businesses. The Prime Minister has
:40:31. > :40:35.told the Sunday politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire that the
:40:35. > :40:39.government will investigate claims that zero our contracts are being
:40:39. > :40:44.abused by some employers. A growing number of workers are believed to be
:40:44. > :40:55.employed on the contracts West Africa than no guarantees about how
:40:55. > :40:59.many hours they will work. McDonald's and Sports Direct. What
:40:59. > :41:08.they have in common? They both employ thousands on zero contracts.
:41:08. > :41:12.Are these the way forward, or they trapping people into uncertainty?
:41:12. > :41:17.Vince Cable has announced there will be a review on the contracts. What
:41:17. > :41:23.are they? They are a flexible contract with no guarantee of work.
:41:23. > :41:29.Employers do not have to pay sick leave or holiday pay. It is mainly
:41:29. > :41:36.retell, catering, education and health care industries. Berra no
:41:36. > :41:41.definite figures, but some research say up to 5 million people could be
:41:41. > :41:49.on these contracts. Ian Dalton used to be employed on them. Now, he
:41:49. > :41:54.campaigns against them. I was a student, so they were supposedly
:41:54. > :41:57.very good for me. Initially, it was, it did fit around university and
:41:57. > :42:01.enable me to have enough money to live on when my student loan didn't
:42:01. > :42:05.come through for two months. But you could be called in at any time, so
:42:05. > :42:14.it meant I couldn't take part in some of the stuff I wanted to do,
:42:14. > :42:20.such as placements. I was actually made redundant by the company
:42:20. > :42:24.without any warning. The worst of this owes more to Victorian
:42:24. > :42:33.practices than 21st—century fairness at work. A Labour government is
:42:33. > :42:36.going to change it. Ed Miliband spoke of his concerned —— his
:42:36. > :42:42.concerns at a meeting earlier this month. Local representatives agree
:42:42. > :42:47.something needs to be done. It really is just an abuse. What we
:42:47. > :42:52.need is proper investment, a proper industrial strategy, to get the
:42:52. > :42:55.Yorkshire economy moving. They are saying the southern economy is
:42:55. > :43:02.moving, but things are getting worse. Up here, we had rises in
:43:02. > :43:07.unemployment. We've done extensive research on this. Some people
:43:07. > :43:10.welcome the flexibility they give. These contracts or used in the
:43:10. > :43:15.public sector than the private sector. But we're having a review to
:43:15. > :43:20.ask about the questions and changes that need to be made. But we should
:43:20. > :43:25.not lose the flexible working market. We've got 1.4 million extra
:43:25. > :43:36.private sector jobs since 2010. Lets not lose that. The Institute of
:43:36. > :43:40.directors has spoken out in support of the contracts, insisting they
:43:40. > :43:44.provide flexibility to employers who face unknown levels of demand and
:43:44. > :43:48.workloads. For Lorraine Turner, who runs a shop in Leeds, it has given
:43:48. > :43:56.her the chance to keep her business running. They are a necessity to our
:43:56. > :44:02.business. No customer guarantees a continuation of work. We have no
:44:02. > :44:07.guaranteed income. So we have to staff in accordance with our
:44:07. > :44:11.workflow at that time. With this out our performing the North
:44:11. > :44:15.economically, zero hours contracts the way for some Yorkshire
:44:15. > :44:19.businesses to stay afloat? Do you worry that many workers on
:44:19. > :44:24.these contracts are being exploited? I would be concerned, and I would
:44:24. > :44:28.certainly challenge that behaviour. I want to correct some of the facts
:44:28. > :44:37.there. The Prime Minister said there is an investigation going on and
:44:37. > :44:42.people will examine them. We are joined at the hip on this issue, the
:44:42. > :44:46.coalition. But I actually asked the House of Commons library for the
:44:47. > :44:51.figures on this, and about 3% or 4% of all people are on these
:44:51. > :44:56.contracts. That is about 1 million people, not 5 million. And nearly
:44:56. > :45:02.90% are content with the hours they get. So there are 100,000 people
:45:02. > :45:07.that we need to set about understanding how to get more for
:45:07. > :45:13.them. And we do that by growing the economy, educating them in the best
:45:13. > :45:19.way we can. Diana Johnson, do you accept there are many people on
:45:19. > :45:23.these contracts who are quite happy with their flexible working
:45:23. > :45:26.arrangements? I think we heard in the package, students in particular
:45:26. > :45:30.want to have these contracts because it fits in with their study and
:45:30. > :45:35.doing part—time work. But what Labour is saying is we want to stop
:45:35. > :45:37.these zero hours contracts where they are exploiting people. We want
:45:37. > :45:45.as many people as possible to proper contracts with hours and wage
:45:45. > :45:50.they know they will every week. We do accept this can work in some
:45:50. > :45:54.cases, but we want to stop it being misused. Recently, I heard somebody
:45:54. > :45:58.is going to be made redundant, and the employer put them on a zero
:45:58. > :46:04.hours contract to stop them from being paid in redundancy payment.
:46:04. > :46:08.That needs to be stopped. Godfrey Bloom, the Labour conference said
:46:08. > :46:14.this is like going back to the Victorian mill owner, do you agree?
:46:14. > :46:18.Of course that is nonsense. There are so many rules and regulations
:46:18. > :46:24.when it comes to employing anybody that it is mind blowing. What we
:46:24. > :46:27.need in a free, democratic, parliamentary society is liberty of
:46:27. > :46:32.contract. I've been arguing this now for nearly ten years. It should not
:46:32. > :46:36.be the role of government to interfere between an employer and an
:46:36. > :46:40.employee. They must come to their own decision of what is suitable for
:46:40. > :46:53.them and make it work. A free market. That would be very much more
:46:53. > :46:55.fruitful for young people. What they need to do is take away the
:46:55. > :46:57.appalling over government spending so we have 20% VAT, people on
:46:57. > :47:00.relatively small salaries paying income taxes and national insurance.
:47:00. > :47:04.They need to free the market up. That is the way to go forward. Chris
:47:04. > :47:09.Hopkins, there is a feeling that, as unemployment starts to fall, many of
:47:09. > :47:12.the new jobs being created are not new jobs at all. I did think that is
:47:12. > :47:22.true. We've seen unemployment is now lower than it was when the coalition
:47:22. > :47:27.came to power. There are more people employed now than ever, more women
:47:27. > :47:33.employed. Ed Miliband the other day said we were going back to Victorian
:47:33. > :47:37.times. They were in power than 13 years and a sentence with zero hours
:47:37. > :47:42.contracts was never whispered or shouted. Now suddenly they have
:47:42. > :47:48.become a virtuous party trying to address this issue. I agree that
:47:48. > :47:53.where people are being exploited, we needed that we need to step in. I
:47:53. > :47:57.disagree that we need a free market. We need constraints to ensure
:47:57. > :48:02.individuals are not being exploited. These contracts are not new, are
:48:02. > :48:07.they, Diana Johnson? No, but we do know they have grown hugely under
:48:07. > :48:12.the coalition government. The idea of 1.4 private sector jobs, if you
:48:12. > :48:15.look at what they are, a lot of them are zero hours contracts. People are
:48:15. > :48:20.only going to get paid if they sell things on commission. So we need to
:48:20. > :48:31.be clear about that 1.4 million jobs. It is not all roses. And I do
:48:31. > :48:39.think there is exploitation. God boy is working on the basis of economic
:48:39. > :48:44.policies of the 1850s. —— Godfrey. That is not how we work in 2013,
:48:44. > :48:48.that is not how we going to get the best economic growth in our country.
:48:48. > :48:55.Would these people sooner zero hours contract or no contract
:48:55. > :49:01.at all? That is the question. Identity it is a straight choice in
:49:01. > :49:06.that way, actually. Let's get some more of the weeks
:49:06. > :49:16.political news. Sean Stowell has our round—up in 60 seconds.
:49:16. > :49:20.The late—night drinking laws have been an absolute disaster, according
:49:20. > :49:26.to the police and crime commissioner by Humberside. He says resources are
:49:26. > :49:31.being seriously overstretched. The experiment in liberalising licensing
:49:31. > :49:35.laws has failed in my opinion. In his keynote speech, Ed Miliband
:49:35. > :49:39.reignited debate over political identity. He announced energy price
:49:39. > :49:44.freezes if Labour got back into power, sparking claims of a return
:49:45. > :49:49.to state control. Sports Minister Hugh Robertson ruled out any more
:49:49. > :49:55.government money being made available first Yorkshire's part of
:49:56. > :49:58.the Tour de France. 10 million is a very generous grant from central
:49:58. > :50:02.government. A petition to bring the remains of
:50:03. > :50:06.Richard III to York has closed, with nowhere near the number of
:50:06. > :50:12.signatures needed to secure a House of Commons debate. 30,000 people
:50:12. > :50:16.called by him to be interred in York Minster rather than Leicester
:50:16. > :50:23.Cathedral. Chris Hopkins, if Ed Miliband on to
:50:23. > :50:24.something when he puts the needs of hard—pressed energy consumers at the
:50:24. > :50:33.heart of his policy, head profit—making energy firms? I think
:50:33. > :50:38.it is right and all parties are looking at how to address that. We
:50:38. > :50:41.just coming out of the deepest recession in 100 years and there
:50:41. > :50:51.have been huge consequences are households. —— for households. What
:50:51. > :50:55.I'm concerned about is that the Prime Minister should get those
:50:55. > :51:01.energy companies in the room and look at how to make tariffs simpler.
:51:01. > :51:10.I will give you some figures. Ed Miliband says he will save £120 per
:51:10. > :51:16.year per household. He actually introduced some decarbonising
:51:16. > :51:23.taxation which added £125 per household per year. I received just
:51:23. > :51:28.a day after the wonderful speech from Ed any e—mail from a comparison
:51:28. > :51:33.website saying I could reduce my bill by £289 tomorrow if I actually
:51:33. > :51:37.switched. So it is a great debate and it is important we are having
:51:37. > :51:43.it, but it was too simplified. Like I said before, he has given these
:51:43. > :51:47.people two years had up to increase the prices. Diana Johnson, can you
:51:47. > :51:51.100% guaranteed to your constituents that we will not have power
:51:51. > :51:57.shortages or blackouts as some companies claim if his plans go
:51:57. > :52:01.ahead? Well, it was interesting that the Conservatives and Lib Dems came
:52:01. > :52:06.out to defend the big six energy companies, and then
:52:07. > :52:09.would blackmail us by threatening blackouts. It is nonsense. These
:52:10. > :52:13.companies are making huge amounts of money by making money over the
:52:13. > :52:18.odds. I think it was absolutely right that it is flagged up. It is
:52:18. > :52:22.not working and we need to resolve that. I'm disappointed that David
:52:22. > :52:26.Cameron has not been able to get some action. He's had all the energy
:52:26. > :52:32.companies round for tea at Number Ten, but nothing seems to have
:52:32. > :52:36.changed. I'm hoping it will make a real difference to people in my
:52:36. > :52:40.constituency in the future. And Godfrey Bloom is now going to tell
:52:40. > :52:47.us that cleaner, greener power is the way forward! Well, the reason it
:52:47. > :52:50.is so expensive is it is a shambles. Windmills do not work. We are
:52:50. > :52:59.closing power stations. The whole thing is getting more expensive.
:52:59. > :53:03.These big pro —— profits that they are making, they are making 4% on
:53:03. > :53:08.capital. They are not making huge profits. It looks big if you look at
:53:08. > :53:15.the numbers, but if you look at the input on the capital, it is not that
:53:15. > :53:18.much. What about all those new jobs in Diana Johnson's constituency
:53:18. > :53:28.building wind turbines? Sorely you support back? —— surely you support
:53:28. > :53:33.that? That every job that is gained in the green energy factor, you lose
:53:33. > :53:35.three. They are sacking people in the steel industry and the caravan
:53:35. > :53:41.industry because energy is too expensive. Politicians are
:53:41. > :53:47.interfering with the market again and making a complete mess of it. It
:53:47. > :53:54.is shocking that your —— Godfrey Bloom is a Yorkshire MEP is not
:53:54. > :53:59.standing up the jobs in this area. It is shocking and outrageous. I am
:54:00. > :54:04.standing up the caravans and the steel industry. Jobs are going
:54:04. > :54:08.abroad because they cannot afford be energy bills. If you had been in
:54:08. > :54:13.business for as long as me, you would understand how it works. You
:54:13. > :54:19.are talking down major investment in a city like whole, the area that you
:54:19. > :54:28.represent. That is out of order. —— city like Hull. Chris Hopkins, how
:54:28. > :54:36.should labour respond to the energy bills rising? Well, the great leader
:54:36. > :54:41.in his lurch to the left the other day missed out the fact that he was
:54:41. > :54:45.the energy minister for some time in the last government, and never
:54:45. > :54:51.raised this, never perceive this as an issue. The Prime Minister, I've
:54:51. > :54:55.got to say I've been quite impressed by senior cabinet members saying
:54:55. > :55:00.that the issue being raised is important. The idea of big —— giving
:55:00. > :55:04.a heads up to these big companies is a false economy, and I'm afraid we
:55:04. > :55:19.may see the consequences of that speech.
:55:19. > :55:22.In the space of less than four days, Godfrey Bloom went from being one of
:55:22. > :55:26.UKIP's most high—profile MEPs to being suspended by the party over
:55:26. > :55:29.his use of the word "sluts". He decided he no longer wanted to
:55:29. > :55:33.represent UKIP in the European Parliament. Not for the first time,
:55:33. > :55:38.the events of the past few days have propelled him into the glare of the
:55:38. > :55:56.media spotlight... I did then we've ever met before. —— I don't think.
:55:56. > :56:05.We can't possibly give this kind of money to bongo—bongo land. I got
:56:05. > :56:11.6000 e—mails and only 24 when not agreeing with me. You're the one
:56:12. > :56:24.that is out of touch. I've always told like it is. I made a joke and
:56:24. > :56:27.said, oh, well you are all sluts. They all laughed, even all the
:56:28. > :56:34.women. Do you think that is acceptable? I've had hundreds of
:56:34. > :56:40.e—mails saying, can you not make a joke anymore? I'm a bit long in the
:56:40. > :56:46.tooth now to do political correctness. I understand that UKIP
:56:46. > :56:52.has moved on and I wish them well. What do you make of
:56:52. > :56:59.of this brochure with no black faces on it? What a racist comment is
:56:59. > :57:03.that. How appalling. You are picking people out for the colour of their
:57:04. > :57:08.skin, that is disgusting. Perhaps the way we do things now
:57:08. > :57:15.isn't the way I do these things. You are disgraceful. Disgraceful! Will
:57:15. > :57:19.you be exchanging Christmas cards with that journalist? I will make
:57:20. > :57:26.sure I carry a piece of lead piping to carry in my magazine in future.
:57:26. > :57:31.Do you regret your actions at the conference? In particular, the use
:57:31. > :57:36.of that word? No, not for one minute. It was a joke. They played
:57:36. > :57:40.the tape yesterday and everyone in the country knew it was a joke. It
:57:40. > :57:47.is just the nonsense road that politics has gone down, I'm afraid.
:57:47. > :57:50.Diana Johnson, do you think Nigel Farage and his leadership friends
:57:50. > :57:58.were right to take a tough line with Godfrey? I think what this is about
:57:58. > :58:03.is presentation. I think Godfrey had one too many bloomers, and Nigel
:58:03. > :58:07.thought, enough is enough. But actually what Godfrey is talking
:58:07. > :58:11.about are the politics that UKIP stands for. So, while presentation
:58:11. > :58:19.league he is a problem that UKIP, the policies he is talking about are
:58:19. > :58:21.their policies. So we need to remember this is just about Godfrey
:58:21. > :58:29.as a person and not Well, he no longer represents the
:58:29. > :58:34.party. He is still a member of the party. They haven't thrown out.
:58:34. > :58:41.That's why I think it is still about the policies. And very popular
:58:41. > :58:46.policies they are. You've seen the e—mails we have in support. I have
:58:47. > :58:50.not seen any e—mails. I might be a bit politically correct, but most of
:58:50. > :58:56.your viewers and listeners writing to say, I agree with you. I think
:58:57. > :59:00.you are just out of touch. You are in the 1950s. I think you are out of
:59:00. > :59:08.touch and the voters are beginning to spot it. Chris Hopkins, one of
:59:08. > :59:12.the points Godfrey Bloom made was that UKIP are becoming like new
:59:12. > :59:16.Labour. Does that become a threat to you? If they are becoming a
:59:16. > :59:22.disciplined, polished political outfit, it is the Conservatives that
:59:22. > :59:29.could suffer, isn't it? I'm not going to kick Godfrey while he's
:59:29. > :59:35.down. I'll be honest, when somebody is in that situation, I think that
:59:35. > :59:38.package will be a great training package to any potential candidate
:59:38. > :59:46.from any party which will be played over and over again. New Labour, the
:59:46. > :59:50.hypocrisy of it. I've been reading today about a by—election candidate
:59:50. > :59:56.for Labour who has used some appalling language. This person has
:59:56. > :00:01.been forced publicly to apologise for that language. This guy fell on
:00:01. > :00:05.his sword and resigned and did the decent thing. New Labour
:00:05. > :00:10.apparently can just polish over it, dust over it, and forget about it.
:00:10. > :00:15.There is some hypocrisy going on there. He responded appropriately,
:00:15. > :00:18.and they didn't. I completely disagree with that. I think all of
:00:19. > :00:22.us would say that in politics you have to use an acceptable language,
:00:22. > :00:27.you have to put forward your arguments in a sensible way, try not
:00:27. > :00:32.to offend people. Say what you think, but do so using appropriate
:00:32. > :00:39.language. Calling women sluts is not appropriate in the public sphere.
:00:39. > :00:45.Have you listened to the clip? Yes, I've seen you defending this clip ad
:00:45. > :00:51.nauseam. But you haven't listened to the clip, have you? That's the
:00:51. > :00:59.point. Listen to the clip. You are out of touch, Godfrey. Just one
:00:59. > :01:06.Twitter message from you. —— for you. Janet says, now you have left
:01:06. > :01:08.the party, will you be retiring to bongo—bongo land? If it is funny, I
:01:08. > :01:19.jolly well world. So, we'll David Cameron's marriage
:01:19. > :01:27.tax break win over voters? How will So, we'll David Cameron's marriage
:01:27. > :01:37.conference initiatives? And what is UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to
:01:37. > :01:41.conference initiatives? And what is with the Tories in Manchester?
:01:41. > :01:56.On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,
:01:56. > :02:02.let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not
:02:02. > :02:05.looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice
:02:05. > :02:09.at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We
:02:09. > :02:12.at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing
:02:12. > :02:15.more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving
:02:15. > :02:20.again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want
:02:20. > :02:25.to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want
:02:25. > :02:32.and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime
:02:32. > :02:39.there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,
:02:39. > :02:50.there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,
:02:50. > :02:53.is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened
:02:53. > :02:59.conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened
:02:59. > :03:05.trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the
:03:05. > :03:15.Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to
:03:15. > :03:16.the right, which the media wants to interpret as them possibly being
:03:16. > :03:20.able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being
:03:20. > :03:26.able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to
:03:26. > :03:33.whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including
:03:33. > :03:39.Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's
:03:40. > :03:43.call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt
:03:43. > :03:46.that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is
:03:46. > :03:54.not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an
:03:54. > :03:58.have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing
:03:58. > :04:05.discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of
:04:05. > :04:14.believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to
:04:14. > :04:17.believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be
:04:17. > :04:22.discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen
:04:22. > :04:24.and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly
:04:24. > :04:29.possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly
:04:29. > :04:34.a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing
:04:34. > :04:36.Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are
:04:36. > :04:53.very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are
:04:53. > :04:58.Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If
:04:58. > :05:02.you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If
:05:02. > :05:07.Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment
:05:07. > :05:12.I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held
:05:12. > :05:17.seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going
:05:17. > :05:21.to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate
:05:21. > :05:24.with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly
:05:24. > :05:27.clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not
:05:27. > :05:31.support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big
:05:31. > :05:33.turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a
:05:33. > :05:37.pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a
:05:37. > :05:39.going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a
:05:39. > :05:41.or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a
:05:41. > :05:46.seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does
:05:46. > :05:49.David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for
:05:49. > :05:51.UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only
:05:51. > :05:55.that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only
:05:55. > :05:58.really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a
:05:58. > :06:02.decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The
:06:02. > :06:07.question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A
:06:07. > :06:09.question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of
:06:09. > :06:13.current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing
:06:13. > :06:19.Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against
:06:19. > :06:27.recovery. So, plausibly, there is David Cameron do to win over those
:06:27. > :06:31.people? He has tried a Europe will referendum and it didn't work. He
:06:31. > :06:34.tried travelling up his immigration policy and that didn't work. I
:06:34. > :06:39.wonder if it is time. You wait until the run-up to 2015, when they start
:06:39. > :06:48.to focus on the explicit choice Cameron, and that is what shifts a
:06:48. > :06:54.Cameron. We heard from William Hague earlier in the programme, the Tory
:06:54. > :06:58.line is that if you vote UKIP you could end up with Ed Miliband in
:06:58. > :07:03.Downing Street. That is the simple appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think
:07:03. > :07:11.Diane is right, I think the European elections will show a good showing
:07:11. > :07:14.for UKIP. It is deemed the one where you can play away. I think it will
:07:14. > :07:18.be hard for people to get excited about that, I think that bounce
:07:18. > :07:22.be hard for people to get excited fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a
:07:22. > :07:28.good ground game, that is difficult for UKIP, that don't have that
:07:28. > :07:33.machinery sorted. How are they going to fund that operation? But the
:07:33. > :07:35.machinery sorted. How are they going bounce could fade away after the
:07:35. > :07:40.European elections. Even if they go election, they are still immensely
:07:40. > :07:43.dangerous to the Conservative Party. But there is really only two things
:07:43. > :07:47.David Cameron can do. One is to But there is really only two things
:07:47. > :07:51.boring and talk about helping people with their mortgage, helping with
:07:51. > :07:54.bread and butter issues. The second thing is, those European actions, he
:07:54. > :08:01.fun, next year do you want me or Ed tends to the natural Conservative
:08:01. > :08:03.fun, next year do you want me or Ed Miliband us your prime and? The
:08:03. > :08:05.fun, next year do you want me or Ed danger with David Cameron is saying,
:08:05. > :08:11.of course, there is not going to be a pact, the danger is you will get a
:08:11. > :08:16.repeat of the 1977 election. John Major said, famously, do not bind my
:08:16. > :08:22.hands. A series of Conservative personally rule out membership of
:08:22. > :08:25.the euro, when the Conservative membership was wait and see. That
:08:25. > :08:32.looked like a Prime Minister not in charge of his party. The danger
:08:32. > :08:34.looked like a Prime Minister not in Let's assume you do really well
:08:34. > :08:37.looked like a Prime Minister not in the European actions and there is a
:08:37. > :08:41.widespread expectation that you will, even in Downing Street. They
:08:41. > :08:45.might be managing expectations. will, even in Downing Street. They
:08:45. > :08:47.stops you fading away as the general election approaches? A number of
:08:47. > :08:50.reasons. As has been mentioned, election approaches? A number of
:08:50. > :08:57.whole issue of the referendum pledge has been proved to be an absolute
:08:57. > :09:01.nonsense. It is so contingent on if I am re-elected, if it's not a
:09:01. > :09:08.coalition government, is, if, if. That was fooled nobody. The issue of
:09:08. > :09:12.where voters are coming from, it is because they have lost faith in
:09:12. > :09:14.where voters are coming from, it is David Cameron says. There is nothing
:09:14. > :09:21.he is going to say that is convince think that is my view and the view
:09:21. > :09:28.of a lot of UKIP. I am told that they have expunged Nigel Farage
:09:28. > :09:29.of a lot of UKIP. I am told that the fringes? It is a great scoop, on
:09:29. > :09:36.ring of steel. Even so, they won't the fringes? It is a great scoop, on
:09:36. > :09:38.ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried
:09:38. > :09:43.paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have
:09:43. > :09:43.paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken
:09:43. > :09:48.out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken
:09:48. > :09:53.leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as
:09:53. > :09:59.leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning
:09:59. > :10:01.his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad
:10:01. > :10:04.during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad
:10:04. > :10:10.not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do
:10:10. > :10:14.not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to
:10:14. > :10:17.move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he
:10:17. > :10:17.move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing
:10:17. > :10:29.Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing
:10:29. > :10:33.Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you
:10:33. > :10:36.Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,
:10:36. > :10:40.people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying
:10:40. > :10:45.that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He
:10:45. > :10:48.might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is
:10:48. > :10:56.much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was
:10:56. > :11:02.asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,
:11:02. > :11:11.important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I
:11:11. > :11:14.important. I don't think you are virtue of being born in the US,
:11:14. > :11:15.important. I don't think you are could be president. Unlike Arnold
:11:15. > :11:25.Schwarzenegger. How about a deal with Boris? He has made no secret,
:11:25. > :11:29.after Eastleigh, that he would be open to a discussion. Let's call it
:11:29. > :11:34.no more than a discussion. He has been adamant, however, he does not
:11:34. > :11:36.see any reason, any justification or any opportunity where he would be
:11:36. > :11:42.able to have that discourse with any opportunity where he would be
:11:42. > :11:45.David Cameron. Maybe it comes down to that on both sides. I've no idea.
:11:45. > :11:50.We know that the Tories will be to that on both sides. I've no idea.
:11:50. > :11:53.more Eurosceptic after the next election? I can't imagine David
:11:53. > :12:00.Cameron's successor will be somebody that supports EU membership in
:12:00. > :12:05.ideological direction of the party. The leadership contest will be about
:12:05. > :12:12.this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say
:12:12. > :12:15.this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has
:12:15. > :12:17.turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,
:12:17. > :12:20.turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader
:12:20. > :12:32.by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron
:12:32. > :12:36.eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer
:12:36. > :12:41.line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has
:12:41. > :12:48.been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not
:12:48. > :12:53.everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a
:12:53. > :12:57.word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is
:12:57. > :13:05.he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on
:13:05. > :13:11.Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour
:13:11. > :13:15.conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he
:13:15. > :13:19.should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with
:13:19. > :13:22.should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live
:13:22. > :13:26.coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from
:13:26. > :13:30.11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from
:13:30. > :13:34.George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next
:13:34. > :13:35.weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor
:13:35. > :13:38.Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor
:13:38. > :13:41.Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.