:00:37. > :00:44.Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And
:00:44. > :00:47.Morning, folks, welcome to the election? We talk to the Tory rebel
:00:47. > :00:51.Morning, folks, welcome to the demanding one next year, that is our
:00:51. > :00:54.top story. As government ministers prepare to decide how the press
:00:54. > :00:56.should be regulated, what will be the impact of this week's row
:00:56. > :01:03.should be regulated, what will be between the Daily Mail and Ed
:01:03. > :01:05.Miliband? You are talking about the colour of
:01:05. > :01:17.In Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, a row peoples faces?!
:01:17. > :01:22.In Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, a row breaks out over claims that in a fit
:01:22. > :02:00.cut for under 25s would lead to an increase in
:02:01. > :02:07.He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa
:02:07. > :02:10.He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC
:02:10. > :02:18.earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need
:02:18. > :02:22.to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put
:02:22. > :02:25.that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a
:02:26. > :02:37.flea bite or a real threat? I think whether to be in or out. Is this a
:02:37. > :02:40.Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement
:02:40. > :02:46.with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British
:02:46. > :02:47.people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly
:02:47. > :02:51.could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly
:02:51. > :02:56.putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could
:02:56. > :03:02.jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio.
:03:02. > :03:05.Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would
:03:05. > :03:12.have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be
:03:12. > :03:17.time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in
:03:17. > :03:21.2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started
:03:21. > :03:23.negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain
:03:23. > :03:27.and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate
:03:27. > :03:32.and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay,
:03:32. > :03:36.strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time
:03:36. > :03:39.for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has
:03:39. > :03:44.not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our
:03:44. > :03:45.timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I
:03:45. > :03:52.think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I
:03:52. > :03:56.a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need
:03:56. > :03:58.certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for
:03:58. > :04:02.ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for
:04:02. > :04:06.conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is
:04:06. > :04:09.essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their
:04:09. > :04:12.souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That
:04:12. > :04:14.would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I
:04:14. > :04:23.You right in the Mail on Sunday clarity for the future, and like I
:04:23. > :04:28.the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they
:04:28. > :04:32.don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I
:04:32. > :04:39.wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British
:04:39. > :04:42.people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties
:04:42. > :04:46.here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,
:04:46. > :04:47.I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be
:04:47. > :04:52.good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be
:04:52. > :04:58.referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the
:04:58. > :05:02.referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue
:05:02. > :05:06.that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to
:05:07. > :05:16.deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust
:05:16. > :05:16.deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables
:05:16. > :05:21.in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables
:05:21. > :05:23.this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables
:05:23. > :05:25.is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables
:05:25. > :05:28.the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum
:05:28. > :05:33.within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may
:05:33. > :05:37.within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got
:05:37. > :05:39.your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to
:05:39. > :05:42.leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to
:05:42. > :05:43.an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come
:05:44. > :05:48.forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come
:05:48. > :05:49.to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever
:05:49. > :05:55.closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us
:05:55. > :05:57.more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us
:05:57. > :06:07.our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to
:06:07. > :06:11.people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime
:06:11. > :06:14.Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime
:06:14. > :06:19.Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It
:06:19. > :06:24.certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five
:06:24. > :06:29.weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you,
:06:29. > :06:35.is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know
:06:35. > :06:39.cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in
:06:40. > :06:45.2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop
:06:45. > :06:48.this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your
:06:48. > :06:51.party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over
:06:51. > :06:55.Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it
:06:55. > :06:59.Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol
:06:59. > :07:03.Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the
:07:03. > :07:06.Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but
:07:06. > :07:06.Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or
:07:06. > :07:10.not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or
:07:10. > :07:15.British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with
:07:15. > :07:19.it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for
:07:19. > :07:21.each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and
:07:21. > :07:27.decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the
:07:27. > :07:29.headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition
:07:29. > :07:37.publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition
:07:37. > :07:39.would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this
:07:39. > :07:43.opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this
:07:44. > :07:46.say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a
:07:46. > :07:55.luck with this continuing struggle Nobody under the age of 56 has had a
:07:55. > :07:57.luck with this continuing struggle panel, what do you make of it? The
:07:57. > :08:01.party managers must be furious with him. I think what this confirms
:08:01. > :08:05.party managers must be furious with that David Cameron is incredibly
:08:05. > :08:11.lucky in his enemies. His most prolific critics, Nadine Dorries,
:08:11. > :08:16.Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if you are very anti-Cameron, you will
:08:16. > :08:19.not think, man, if only they were in charge of the party! I think the
:08:19. > :08:27.party managers are not too alarmed. They do not take him seriously? No,
:08:27. > :08:31.is not as if the James Wharton bill is a work of genius, it is riddled
:08:31. > :08:34.with flaws, anomalies and loopholes. It purports to guarantee that a
:08:34. > :08:39.referendum will take place in the next Parliament. My understanding of
:08:39. > :08:42.theoretically impossible and that all the future government would
:08:42. > :08:45.theoretically impossible and that is cancel out that bill with another
:08:45. > :08:50.bill. He does have a point that Cameron's plan for a referendum
:08:50. > :08:55.bill. He does have a point that nothing like as likely to happen...
:08:56. > :09:01.dangerous. The problem for David Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed
:09:01. > :09:03.Miliband says he's going to support Adam Afriyie, it will go through.
:09:04. > :09:08.Unlikely that Ed Miliband would Adam Afriyie, it will go through.
:09:08. > :09:13.that, but what he might do is say to his MPs, ignore this. It may well be
:09:13. > :09:20.significant number of Labour MPs do not turn up, and then what you have
:09:20. > :09:26.Conservative backbenchers, and in that war you might well find that
:09:26. > :09:30.through, and then the Prime Minister has real trouble, because Adam
:09:30. > :09:39.Afriyie says, the Prime Minister to get agreement with Nick Clegg or
:09:39. > :09:45.Ed Miliband, so you would be looking to get agreement with Nick Clegg or
:09:45. > :09:48.Ed Miliband, so you would be looking think he is a Labour mole, that
:09:48. > :09:50.Ed Miliband, so you would be looking what I have come to, a Daily Mail
:09:50. > :09:54.style conspiracy theory, it could not be more perfect. The prospect of
:09:54. > :09:55.style conspiracy theory, it could a referendum on the EU at the same
:09:55. > :10:05.time as Scottish independence is has told us he could not sleep at
:10:05. > :10:09.conscience. We could send him some pills, I suppose. We know he's going
:10:09. > :10:13.to sack all those lieutenants were going around and saying he is the
:10:13. > :10:18.great future and the next leader of the Conservative Party. He denied
:10:18. > :10:25.doing that! He would be amazed to hear you say that, this is a crisis
:10:25. > :10:26.conversations in corridors, quite an operation to get letters into Graham
:10:26. > :10:31.Brady, he said to have letters, operation to get letters into Graham
:10:32. > :10:41.46, but at the moment this campaign is being run by Lieutenant of Adam
:10:41. > :10:47.They are disaffected and not happy under David Cameron's leadership.
:10:47. > :10:51.There is a whole army of them! I am pleased he has outmanoeuvred the
:10:51. > :10:57.awkward squad, and now James Wharton is saying, you're going to kill
:10:57. > :10:59.awkward squad, and now James Wharton bill. I do not think they are very
:10:59. > :11:06.competence lieutenants. The main episode is it will unify a large
:11:06. > :11:08.Conservative Party behind David Cameron. On what they hope is a
:11:08. > :11:14.settled position. We still hope Cameron. On what they hope is a
:11:14. > :11:18.be talking to John Prescott, who is in hole, if you see him, pointing in
:11:18. > :11:25.the direction of the BBC studios! Do you want to buy a house? Can you
:11:25. > :11:27.the direction of the BBC studios! Do not the 20% or 30% deposit the
:11:27. > :11:31.mortgage provider is demanding from you? The Government says it has
:11:31. > :11:33.mortgage provider is demanding from scheme designed for you which is in
:11:33. > :11:40.launching next week, help to buy, re-emergence of 95% mortgages,
:11:40. > :11:45.remember them?! But is the policy really good for home-buyers or the
:11:45. > :11:49.British economy? Here is Giles. Never mind who lives in a house
:11:49. > :11:49.British economy? Here is Giles. this, who can afford to buy a house
:11:49. > :11:53.these days? The Government would this, who can afford to buy a house
:11:53. > :11:56.without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to
:11:56. > :11:58.without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in
:11:58. > :12:03.the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to
:12:03. > :12:04.the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two
:12:04. > :12:25.been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early.
:12:25. > :12:29.Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this
:12:29. > :12:34.scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really
:12:34. > :12:40.works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is
:12:40. > :12:40.works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a
:12:40. > :12:46.value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to
:12:46. > :12:50.Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up
:12:50. > :12:57.to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up
:12:57. > :13:00.time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first
:13:00. > :13:03.losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first
:13:03. > :13:16.future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if
:13:16. > :13:22.available again in participating banks and building societies. And
:13:22. > :13:28.a housing prime mover. You cannot get training to 5% mortgage anymore,
:13:28. > :13:32.90% even, so there are couples in our country who have good jobs,
:13:32. > :13:38.decent incomes, they could afford the mortgage payments but they
:13:38. > :13:44.failure in our banking market. So Jonathan, but I guess for you this
:13:44. > :13:50.is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a main impact of this scheme will
:13:50. > :13:52.is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a to push up prices, who does that
:13:52. > :13:57.benefit? Mostly rich and all the people who own their houses. Plus
:13:57. > :14:01.the banks, of course, because it is a subsidy for them. Who loses?
:14:01. > :14:03.People who want to buy a house in the future. Moreover, it is a bit
:14:03. > :14:09.odd that the Government says it the future. Moreover, it is a bit
:14:09. > :14:15.not OK to borrow to finance schools or roads, but it is fine for the
:14:15. > :14:25.effectively, in order to guarantee housing market. 2.3 million? I do
:14:25. > :14:31.not think Help to Buy covers that. But enter a would-be buyer, will
:14:31. > :14:37.they now be seeing a plethora of help to buy mortgages? In a word,
:14:37. > :14:42.no. David Cameron has brought the months, and banks were not ready at
:14:42. > :14:46.that stage. Two banks have committed to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group
:14:46. > :14:51.and the RBS group, so lenders like Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will
:14:51. > :15:00.be doing the scheme, but even once the scheme is up and running you are
:15:00. > :15:09.high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People
:15:09. > :15:14.might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would
:15:14. > :15:20.the government want to make those products available then now? It
:15:20. > :15:22.the government want to make those more what investment banks were
:15:22. > :15:27.doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the
:15:28. > :15:35.depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the
:15:35. > :15:37.game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years
:15:37. > :15:41.but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years
:15:41. > :15:47.first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years
:15:47. > :15:52.it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand
:15:52. > :16:00.over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at
:16:00. > :16:07.the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care
:16:07. > :16:14.economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a
:16:14. > :16:21.house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term
:16:21. > :16:24.economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull
:16:24. > :16:31.off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to
:16:31. > :16:32.off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the
:16:32. > :16:35.Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the
:16:35. > :16:51.the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a
:16:51. > :16:57.Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City
:16:57. > :17:03.It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble.
:17:03. > :17:17.Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in
:17:17. > :17:22.London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it
:17:22. > :17:30.will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even
:17:30. > :17:34.more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in
:17:34. > :17:41.tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy.
:17:41. > :17:44.What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on
:17:44. > :17:54.average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on
:17:54. > :17:59.property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they
:17:59. > :18:03.cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people
:18:03. > :18:07.to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will
:18:07. > :18:23.cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any
:18:23. > :18:33.have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not
:18:33. > :18:40.the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not
:18:40. > :18:46.new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see
:18:46. > :18:50.enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution
:18:50. > :18:54.to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes
:18:54. > :18:59.and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the
:18:59. > :19:04.deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed
:19:04. > :19:07.laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed
:19:07. > :19:15.prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government
:19:15. > :19:19.is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create
:19:19. > :19:26.these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not
:19:26. > :19:32.a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take
:19:32. > :19:38.part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the
:19:38. > :19:41.money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The
:19:42. > :19:48.taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The
:19:48. > :19:54.guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the
:19:54. > :19:59.change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in
:19:59. > :20:03.response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying
:20:03. > :20:13.for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like
:20:13. > :20:21.these self certification mortgages the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit
:20:21. > :20:26.like that but the banks are rightly asking for bigger deposits, they
:20:26. > :20:33.know there is a big chance house prices could fall if interest rates
:20:33. > :20:38.eventually, so they are demanding bigger deposits. The Government
:20:38. > :20:40.eventually, so they are demanding circumventing this is being passed
:20:40. > :20:43.eventually, so they are demanding on to the taxpayers which is why it
:20:43. > :20:51.is a dangerous policy. Instead they should be massively accelerating
:20:51. > :20:54.Planning permission is much easier to get now, we have seen a 49%
:20:54. > :20:58.increase in planning permission to get now, we have seen a 49%
:20:58. > :21:05.a new building over the last year, a huge increase. In the figures I
:21:05. > :21:08.a new building over the last year, a recently, they showed new start
:21:08. > :21:11.a new building over the last year, a the 12 months to the autumn were
:21:12. > :21:17.only about 110,000 which is the figure you inherited, which was
:21:17. > :21:19.only about 110,000 which is the an all-time low in 2010. New house
:21:19. > :21:23.built in the last quarter are third up on the time last year. You have
:21:23. > :21:29.relaxation of planning laws and up on the time last year. You have
:21:29. > :21:33.other policies the Government put into effect last year to take effect
:21:33. > :21:38.and it is coming through now. I agree, if we weren't building more
:21:38. > :21:44.houses, if the construction sector advantage of the increased demand,
:21:44. > :21:52.there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are snob and it is only
:21:52. > :21:59.snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They don't have the bank of mum and dad,
:21:59. > :22:06.people like that will finally get on the housing ladder. That is complete
:22:06. > :22:11.housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like
:22:11. > :22:19.in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes
:22:19. > :22:25.were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people
:22:25. > :22:29.could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95%
:22:29. > :22:38.mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go
:22:38. > :22:43.struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced
:22:44. > :22:48.with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford.
:22:48. > :22:54.95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford.
:22:54. > :23:00.repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise?
:23:00. > :23:02.They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are
:23:02. > :23:08.already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are
:23:08. > :23:15.lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into
:23:15. > :23:20.this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are
:23:20. > :23:24.this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should
:23:24. > :23:30.limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape
:23:30. > :23:32.limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the
:23:32. > :23:40.Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father
:23:40. > :23:44.Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone
:23:44. > :23:52.with the caption, grave socialist. picture of his father's gravestone
:23:52. > :23:56.Ed Miliband the right to reply on printed an editorial alongside it
:23:56. > :24:01.saying they stood by every word printed an editorial alongside it
:24:01. > :24:08.published an fair headline. It also reporter had gate-crashed a private
:24:08. > :24:13.memorial service for Ed Miliband's uncle in a London hospital, for
:24:13. > :24:15.which the paper has now apologised, but Ed Miliband has called on the
:24:15. > :24:23.hard look at the way his papers but Ed Miliband has called on the
:24:23. > :24:31.run. This comes a week before a but Ed Miliband has called on the
:24:31. > :24:40.Joining us now from Hull, John Prescott. Does this row between
:24:40. > :24:45.Joining us now from Hull, John reinforce the case for tough, new
:24:45. > :24:49.certainly influences the opinion about that but that is more of Paul
:24:49. > :24:54.Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang about that but that is more of Paul
:24:54. > :24:59.while I was in Strasbourg making sure my complaints were nothing
:24:59. > :25:03.while I was in Strasbourg making do with press regulation and he
:25:03. > :25:07.while I was in Strasbourg making right. This argument is not about
:25:07. > :25:15.politicians and media people, it is about ordinary people that love
:25:15. > :25:16.politicians and media people, it is and dealt with. All of these cases
:25:17. > :25:22.affected individual people and they are the ones that need to have
:25:22. > :25:32.justice in this matter. Next week we will be hearing whether the Privy
:25:32. > :25:49.Council will be reporting on the proposal to replace it. Are you
:25:49. > :26:02.with its Miliband article was a matter of judgement? Yes, and the
:26:02. > :26:04.with its Miliband article was a conclusion that the relationship
:26:04. > :26:13.between the press, the police and politicians should be governed,
:26:13. > :26:18.between the press, the police and proposal given by half the press
:26:18. > :26:22.industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect
:26:22. > :26:26.the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope
:26:26. > :26:28.the Privy Council this week will will because it is not consistent
:26:28. > :26:34.with the Leveson report which the Prime Minister said he supported.
:26:34. > :26:40.You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through
:26:40. > :26:45.the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled
:26:45. > :26:46.son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about
:26:46. > :26:56.Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about
:26:56. > :27:09.couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are
:27:09. > :27:30.editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the
:27:30. > :27:32.which the press have accepted the old PCC is no good. They are playing
:27:32. > :27:37.for time because if they reject old PCC is no good. They are playing
:27:37. > :27:41.this week there is 12 months until you can consider a parliamentary
:27:41. > :27:45.alternative and then you are near the election and you begin to bully
:27:45. > :27:55.the leaders. That is how they have been successful in putting off
:27:55. > :28:00.recommendations. Maybe my memory is fading but did you or anybody else
:28:00. > :28:04.in the Labour Party object to the Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't
:28:04. > :28:09.know about it. I would just say Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't
:28:09. > :28:13.is wrong if that is what they did. As you said, you have the same
:28:13. > :28:18.position when they go through your rubbish bins, I think that is wrong.
:28:18. > :28:22.We have Leveson set up by the Prime Minister to look at the cultures and
:28:22. > :28:37.practices and the unilateral action of editors and he came forward with
:28:37. > :28:39.Parliament under a compromise of the Royal Charter. I don't like a Royal
:28:39. > :28:44.frankly, but we have agreed to go frankly, but we have agreed to go
:28:44. > :28:51.Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press
:28:51. > :28:58.box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a
:28:58. > :29:02.means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to
:29:02. > :29:19.introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not
:29:19. > :29:24.introduce their own independent of the Mail. What is the endgame for
:29:24. > :29:38.this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to
:29:38. > :29:43.account. When Ed Miliband rang me it regulation, he wanted the argument
:29:44. > :29:57.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband regulation, he wanted the argument
:29:57. > :29:59.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband after Paul Dacre's head? No, he
:29:59. > :30:01.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband stay there. It is like with Murdoch,
:30:01. > :30:06.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband we were not attacking him but what
:30:06. > :30:12.extent, what they are doing about politicians who can look after
:30:12. > :30:16.themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they
:30:16. > :30:19.might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well
:30:19. > :30:25.destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre
:30:25. > :30:32.got good judgment? I would say no, Thank you for joining us, he did not
:30:32. > :30:39.even have to go to the BBC studios, we sent a truck there for him. What
:30:39. > :30:42.is the endgame in this? Whether the Labour Party is trying to make this
:30:42. > :30:46.an issue press regulation are not, this is where it is going. We have
:30:46. > :30:49.the criminal trial involving Andy Coulson coming up, the Privy Council
:30:49. > :30:52.discussing press radiation before the end of the year, and the
:30:52. > :30:59.question is, what is political impact?
:30:59. > :31:02.question is, what is political of the Leveson story over the past
:31:02. > :31:09.several years, hacking and everything, is close to zero,
:31:09. > :31:12.because most voters do not care, and those who do care believe that all
:31:12. > :31:17.parties are roughly complicit in being too close to editors and
:31:17. > :31:24.proprietors. You said that Adam Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a
:31:24. > :31:28.smile. Is the Daily Mail also a Labour mole? This has been a dream
:31:28. > :31:33.for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch, I am taking on the energy companies
:31:33. > :31:38.and now the evil Daily Mail! I think... I should say I used to work
:31:38. > :31:42.for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they
:31:42. > :31:44.surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done
:31:44. > :31:48.surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this
:31:48. > :31:52.position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think
:31:52. > :31:58.the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology.
:31:58. > :32:01.If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do
:32:01. > :32:05.this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the
:32:05. > :32:11.media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a
:32:11. > :32:14.dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David
:32:14. > :32:17.Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some
:32:17. > :32:24.common ground between the three party Royal Charter and the
:32:24. > :32:27.so-called press industry version. What the Daily Mail has done is
:32:27. > :32:31.ensured that the Prime Minister is not going to be able to do that.
:32:31. > :32:35.What is going to happen this week is that the press Royal Charter has to
:32:35. > :32:36.be considered first, and that will probably be rejected. The Privy
:32:36. > :32:42.Council will reject it. probably be rejected. The Privy
:32:42. > :32:46.three party Royal Charter will come probably be rejected. The Privy
:32:46. > :32:50.up, but meanwhile the press will set up their own regulatory body because
:32:50. > :32:51.the Royal Charter is not a proper statutory underpinning, they will be
:32:51. > :32:56.able to go ahead with that. There statutory underpinning, they will be
:32:56. > :33:00.will be the legal basis for the oversight of the oversight body, and
:33:00. > :33:06.it will basically just be an ambassador that will not be
:33:06. > :33:09.resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the
:33:09. > :33:17.profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for
:33:17. > :33:25.Ed Miliband. It is only great politics if he scores a great
:33:25. > :33:29.victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the
:33:29. > :33:33.narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But
:33:33. > :33:36.all those vested interests are people that you would expect a
:33:36. > :33:44.left-wing politician to want to take on. It is also more significant
:33:44. > :33:47.about who he has stood up for, and the person he has studied for is his
:33:47. > :33:53.father. Maybe people thought of him as a Marxist, now they think of him
:33:53. > :33:59.as war hero. He gets to the crux of matters, you know! You are watching
:33:59. > :34:01.the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be
:34:01. > :34:17.speaking to Godfrey You are watching the Sunday politics
:34:17. > :34:21.for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up today. A row breaks out
:34:21. > :34:29.over claims that benefit cuts for under 25 is would lead to a big
:34:29. > :34:33.increase in homelessness. And we will find out why Yorkshire
:34:33. > :34:38.is at the bottom of the league when it comes to attracting overseas
:34:38. > :34:42.investment. Let's say hello to our guests today. Michael Dugher is the
:34:42. > :34:47.Labour MP for Barnsley East, Alec Shelbrooke is the Conservative MP
:34:47. > :34:50.for helmet and Rothwell. Many commentators are now saying that
:34:50. > :34:55.your two parties are farther apart politically speaking them they have
:34:55. > :35:00.in for some time, what is your take? Watching the Conservative party
:35:00. > :35:03.conference, I think they are further apart from the electorate and the
:35:03. > :35:06.centre ground of British politics than they have been for some time.
:35:06. > :35:13.At Labour's conference, the theme of the cost of living crisis. In
:35:13. > :35:18.Yorkshire, families are on average £1700 per year worse off every year
:35:18. > :35:22.since David Cameron became Prime Minister. There is a huge cost of
:35:22. > :35:26.living crisis going on, that is what we focused on so we had ideas about
:35:26. > :35:30.freezing energy bills, they have gone up for most people. Talking
:35:31. > :35:37.about the cost of living, the big issues. David Cameron mentioned the
:35:37. > :35:41.Labour Party 25 times and the cost of living three times, that was
:35:41. > :35:48.telling. You're partly —— your party has been on the back foot. The
:35:48. > :35:53.Labour Party has gone to the 1970s socialism, talking about state
:35:53. > :35:57.freezing land —— seizing land and energy prices freezing. The
:35:57. > :36:02.Conservatives have cleared up the mess left by the Labour Party and we
:36:02. > :36:06.have now got to build the economy going forward. Labour spent three
:36:06. > :36:08.years saying the economy would not recover, it has, they have moved on
:36:08. > :36:21.to the cost of living, to grow. One area where there is a
:36:21. > :36:27.big divide is on welfare. A war of word had erupted over claims that it
:36:27. > :36:31.cuts could see an increase in the number of young people becoming
:36:31. > :36:36.homeless. —— claims that benefit cuts. The Conservatives say 16—25
:36:36. > :36:45.—year—olds should be repaired to earn or learn all face losing their
:36:45. > :36:48.dole. But one leaving —— one leading housing charity says scrapping
:36:48. > :36:53.benefits for under 25s would have devastating effects in parts of the
:36:53. > :36:56.law. This is the East Marsh area of
:36:56. > :37:01.Grimsby weather number of people claiming benefits outnumbers those
:37:01. > :37:08.in work. This area was recently described in a survey by one think
:37:08. > :37:12.tank as a benefit ghetto. According to the Centre for social justice,
:37:12. > :37:21.51% of the working age occupation here rely on benefits. Rees is 23
:37:21. > :37:25.and claims job—seeker 's allowance and housing benefit. He says he is
:37:25. > :37:31.worried about reports that young people could be the target of the
:37:31. > :37:36.next big welfare crackdown. That is all I have got to support myself
:37:36. > :37:41.while I am looking for a job. I am trying to get a job. I have got an
:37:41. > :37:46.interview at the factory tomorrow. Even still, coming in and out of the
:37:46. > :37:52.factory, the work dies down. If I lost my benefits, I would not be
:37:52. > :37:56.able to survive. Today it is still possible to leave school, signed on,
:37:56. > :38:03.find a flat, start taming housing benefit and opt for a life
:38:03. > :38:06.benefits. David Cameron has suggested that
:38:06. > :38:14.16—25 —year—olds who shun education, employment or training would lose
:38:14. > :38:17.their benefits under a future Conservative government. They would
:38:17. > :38:20.not be entitled to housing benefit and it could mean they are excluded
:38:20. > :38:25.from claiming job—seeker's allowance. One charity which
:38:25. > :38:29.represents homeless groups across the UK says that would have a big
:38:29. > :38:33.impact on places like Grimsby. I think the impact on areas like the
:38:33. > :38:37.North of England is potentially devastating. Our members in the area
:38:37. > :38:41.report that they already are at record numbers of young people
:38:41. > :38:45.approaching them for help with homelessness. With poverty, we are
:38:45. > :38:47.seeing an increase in the use of food banks, an increase in the
:38:47. > :38:52.number of people approaching councils for help and advice for
:38:52. > :38:56.homelessness. If these proposals go through we expect to see significant
:38:56. > :38:58.increases in the numbers of young people seeking help with
:38:58. > :39:06.homelessness problems in these areas. However, many conservatives
:39:06. > :39:12.say they are simply responding to widespread concern about the abuse
:39:12. > :39:16.of benefits. This was the view of some voters in Cleethorpes. I think
:39:16. > :39:22.a lot of the younger ones could do more work than what they do. And an
:39:22. > :39:26.living. There always seems to be a job out there, you have got to keep
:39:26. > :39:29.looking and apply for courses. It is the people who have been unemployed
:39:29. > :39:36.for months he seemed to abuse the system. What we have got to make
:39:36. > :39:40.sure is that welfare benefits go to people who are genuinely in need. It
:39:40. > :39:43.was created by the Labour government as a safety net and that is how it
:39:43. > :39:50.should be. What do you a new generation of homeless young
:39:50. > :39:53.people? There will be hard cases because of broken homes and so on,
:39:53. > :40:00.the system has got to accommodate and deal with sympathetically. The
:40:00. > :40:02.reality is, if we are going to meet housing demands over the next
:40:02. > :40:07.generation, we cannot be providing social housing for people who are
:40:07. > :40:11.only 17 or 18 and expecting the state somehow to pick up the tab for
:40:11. > :40:18.providing them with accommodation. Where are the families? So expect an
:40:18. > :40:26.increasingly heated war of words between the politicians when it
:40:26. > :40:29.comes to the war on welfare. Alec Shelbrooke, what do you make to
:40:29. > :40:35.those claims that cutting benefits for under 25s could lead to a big
:40:35. > :40:39.increase in homelessness? Let's be very clear about what the Prime
:40:39. > :40:44.Minister said and what has been reported. This is the potential
:40:44. > :40:48.losing of benefits for 18—25 —year—oldss who refused to take part
:40:48. > :40:53.in education, learning or work. People who are trying to opt out of
:40:53. > :40:56.the system and live a life on benefits. Overall the majority of
:40:56. > :41:01.people in that age bracket will not be losing their benefits. Should a
:41:01. > :41:05.young person who refuses to take a job, refuses to take a training
:41:05. > :41:09.place or refuses to go back into education, should they be allowed to
:41:09. > :41:14.keep their benefits? Look at what Labour proposed many months ago. Our
:41:14. > :41:18.compulsory jobs guarantee, we said that all young people who had been
:41:18. > :41:21.unemployed for more than a year, and everyone else who has been
:41:21. > :41:26.unemployed for more than two years, the long—term unemployed, should be
:41:26. > :41:30.offered a job. That should —— that job should include training and job
:41:30. > :41:35.search and we would find that job for employers. Here
:41:35. > :41:37.toughness, they would not be able to turn it down. If they did, they
:41:37. > :41:40.would lose their benefits. The government has got to do better in
:41:40. > :41:43.terms of providing opportunities and jobs for young people. We know
:41:43. > :41:50.unemployment is rising in Yorkshire and we don't that the number —— we
:41:50. > :41:53.know the number of young people aged between 18 and 24 who have been
:41:53. > :41:57.unemployed by more than two years has gone up fourfold in the last
:41:57. > :42:00.year. That is not because benefits have got more generous, that is
:42:00. > :42:04.because there is a jobs crisis. Therein lies the problem. It is all
:42:04. > :42:09.very well forcing young people to go on training schemes, but if there is
:42:09. > :42:17.no job, what is the point? You are faced with dark choices. —— stark
:42:17. > :42:20.choices. There has been a huge rise in apprenticeships and what we are
:42:20. > :42:25.saying is the money we are spending on people who refused to take part,
:42:25. > :42:29.should be spent on training programme that go in. We have a
:42:29. > :42:34.difficult economic limit. During the boom years, we saw young term
:42:34. > :42:39.unemployment in people grow. We can all play the statistics but the fact
:42:39. > :42:44.is, what do we do about it? To be trap people into a benefit system
:42:44. > :42:49.where they have got no education or training or hope of getting out, or
:42:49. > :42:53.do we give them tough love and say, if you are in training or a job or
:42:53. > :42:57.going through further education, you will continue to be funded. But if
:42:57. > :43:02.you opt out of all of those things, your benefits will stop. Tough love?
:43:02. > :43:06.We have said, if you turn down the Labour compulsory job guarantee, we
:43:06. > :43:14.will give you a job, we will fund the job. That is a £1 billion
:43:14. > :43:16.commitment fully costed. We would rip an —— we would repeat the bank
:43:16. > :43:25.bonuses tax. top rate tax cuts for millionaires.
:43:25. > :43:29.Wouldn't it be better to use that money to do something about the fact
:43:29. > :43:36.that there are 1 million young people unemployed? Are you not
:43:36. > :43:40.convinced? The bank bonus tax has been used for every Labour spending
:43:40. > :43:45.commitment in the last three years. The fact is under these governments,
:43:45. > :43:48.the people on the higher tax rates are paying more tax than they ever
:43:48. > :43:55.did under Labour. It is no surprise that the latest opinion polling
:43:55. > :44:00.showed that the 18 to 25—year—olds support Conservatives over Labour. I
:44:00. > :44:04.saw a young lad recently who said that he dragged himself out of one
:44:05. > :44:09.of the largest council estates of Europe in Leeds, working hard,
:44:10. > :44:15.trying to hurt —— earn a living. He said he was bothered by people who
:44:15. > :44:18.have never bothered to do that. You want to stop them buying beer and
:44:18. > :44:24.fags with the dole. I think the most important thing is to prevent people
:44:24. > :44:28.falling into poverty. For all of the criticism, not one person has given
:44:28. > :44:30.me an argument of how beer and fags stop people falling
:44:30. > :44:36.me an argument of how beer and fags stop people poverty.
:44:36. > :44:40.Yorkshire will host the Tour de France next year, but Yorkshire does
:44:40. > :44:44.not appear to be enjoying the same kind of success in the global
:44:44. > :44:51.business race. The region lags behind many other parts of the UK
:44:51. > :44:56.when it comes to attracting overseas investment.
:44:56. > :45:00.Foreign investment, selling yourself abroad is the best way out of
:45:00. > :45:05.economic trouble, so—called businesses —— as businesses tell us.
:45:05. > :45:09.But has Yorkshire lost a unified voice?
:45:09. > :45:15.attracts nearly half of the UK's foreign funded budgets. It is the
:45:15. > :45:19.equivalent of the fourth biggest country in Europe, because of its
:45:19. > :45:22.investment. The rest of the country has seen its share of foreign
:45:22. > :45:25.investments dropped by nearly a quarter. These part of the country
:45:25. > :45:32.used to have regional development agencies like Yorkshire Forward but
:45:32. > :45:40.the government got rid of them. Has that made a difference? If Yorkshire
:45:40. > :45:44.can gather together its business communities, universities as well as
:45:44. > :45:50.local authorities and government, and put to overseas boardrooms
:45:50. > :45:56.unified picture for Yorkshire, we will be more accessible. The focus
:45:56. > :46:00.must be on original story, investors like that, rather than a fragmented
:46:00. > :46:06.approach that in this region are sometimes offering. If you look at
:46:06. > :46:10.so many jobs that have been created by foreign investment, other regions
:46:10. > :46:17.have done well. Yorkshire is at the bottom of the list. How has the
:46:17. > :46:22.North West and Wales done it? You join me at media city in
:46:22. > :46:27.Salford, home to BBC Northwest and home to a few thousand new jobs.
:46:27. > :46:31.Behind all of this is a Northwest company backed with an awful lot of
:46:31. > :46:37.foreign cash, a lot of it from China. 35 miles away along the 62,
:46:37. > :46:43.that is another success story. Jaguar Land Rover, another few
:46:43. > :46:49.thousand jobs there, this time back by cash from India. What have we got
:46:49. > :46:56.that you have not got? We have lost the regional development agency,
:46:56. > :46:58.we are really struggling to find a replacement for it, one with the
:46:59. > :47:03.cash and the clouds to promote our region overseas. I can tell you what
:47:03. > :47:07.we do have, that is just over here. It is Manchester United's football
:47:07. > :47:11.ground. The authors of this report believe that if you have got a
:47:11. > :47:15.successful football team, one which is globally recognised, that helps
:47:15. > :47:20.pull in overseas investment. We have got plenty of them. How about you? I
:47:21. > :47:27.am here at Cardiff Bay, once the biggest coal port in the world. The
:47:27. > :47:34.device of —— the demise of industry, you are more likely to
:47:34. > :47:38.seek restaurants here now. Wales developed through the Welsh to
:47:38. > :47:43.relevant agency in the 80s and 90s. In 2005, the Welsh government at the
:47:43. > :47:48.time scrapped the WDA. It was hugely controversial. The accusation was
:47:48. > :47:55.that Wales had lost its brand overseas. Inward investment levels
:47:55. > :47:59.plummeted. Since then, things have picked up. There has been a big push
:47:59. > :48:05.on trade shows overseas, and a new office has opened in central London.
:48:06. > :48:09.Much of selling Wales overseas now is done at a high political level.
:48:09. > :48:16.Much of it by the first Minister of wealth itself. We have got
:48:16. > :48:21.individual local price partnerships now, voices to shout for South, west
:48:21. > :48:24.and north Yorkshire. Are we missing a strong opportunity to sell
:48:24. > :48:28.Yorkshire as a whole? When our neighbours across the Pennines are
:48:28. > :48:32.doing much better with us —— than us with the same tools, what are we
:48:32. > :48:39.doing wrong? I will ask that question to Michael
:48:39. > :48:44.Dugher. Why do you believe Yorkshire is lagging behind other parts of the
:48:44. > :48:47.UK? Part of it is the state of the economy over the last three years,
:48:47. > :48:51.growth strangled out of the economy, it is only now belatedly coming back
:48:51. > :48:59.and is still less than 1%. We have got to do better as a whole country
:48:59. > :49:06.in terms of growth. I think the government had strategic error when
:49:06. > :49:10.it abolished the regional developer agency. It was doing pretty well in
:49:10. > :49:13.Yorkshire, they got rid of it in haste and I think they are now
:49:13. > :49:20.trying to turn them into something that looks more like a regional
:49:20. > :49:24.element agency. They need the clout and resources. In Wales, they have
:49:25. > :49:27.lost their RDA, but they have got a strong focus because of the
:49:27. > :49:32.government in Wales. We do not have that. When I listen to David Cameron
:49:32. > :49:35.and George Osborne, they have got no idea about places in Yorkshire. Ask
:49:35. > :49:41.them about regional policy, they say we have got HS2, that is the railway
:49:41. > :49:47.line. That is all they have got. Don't get started on HS2! Do we need
:49:47. > :49:53.a single body batting for Yorkshire and Humber as a whole? The regional
:49:53. > :49:58.development agencies spent a huge amount of money, a lot from the
:49:58. > :50:02.European Union, we hear an argument about the European Union, it was
:50:02. > :50:07.spent on revenue projects. If you go to some of the new projects in
:50:07. > :50:11.eastern Europe, it is on capital projects. That makes it better to do
:50:11. > :50:16.infrastructure and move forward. The government has done for —— far more
:50:16. > :50:22.than just talk about HS2. We have invested millions of pounds in Leeds
:50:22. > :50:28.alone. We are talking about Kirkstall Ford, creating
:50:28. > :50:34.and homes, a trolley bus system in the city, it is unreasonable to say
:50:34. > :50:38.that government ignores the North of England. We have to make sure that
:50:38. > :50:42.we have an economy which is able to cope and have the infrastructure
:50:42. > :50:45.there to support growth, and see what happens. In terms of Manchester
:50:45. > :50:51.United, we obviously want Leeds United to do very well. They are in
:50:51. > :50:55.a good place in the table, in a few years Manchester United will not be!
:50:55. > :51:02.We have got whole city as well, don't forget! Response, Alec
:51:02. > :51:06.Shelbrooke? I don't have the answer is to turn Leeds United into a
:51:06. > :51:10.Champions League club, I'm not sure that would be very popular in
:51:10. > :51:14.Barnsley. The government has to do better. The cuts, for instance, are
:51:14. > :51:17.this unfortunate the higher in Yorkshire that they are in the south
:51:17. > :51:23.of England. —— they are disproportionately higher. Yorkshire
:51:23. > :51:27.is not getting anything like the same kind of opportunities. The
:51:27. > :51:33.government is happy to forget about huge part of Yorkshire that is not
:51:33. > :51:36.good enough. We need more from David Cameron and George Osborne. But they
:51:36. > :51:41.just do not get the North. Your response, the North—South divide?
:51:41. > :51:45.That is cobblers. This government unlike the Labour government before
:51:45. > :51:48.has invested millions of pounds in Leeds alone, millions across the
:51:48. > :51:53.North of England with projects coming, we only have two look at the
:51:53. > :51:59.tram system in the city. Money taken away for Labour, it was put into
:51:59. > :52:03.crossrail in London. That is old news now. Let's have a look at the
:52:03. > :52:17.round—up in 50 seconds. says she has been told to dumb down
:52:17. > :52:21.her CV if she wants to find a job in hole. She has a degree from the
:52:21. > :52:27.city's University but claims she was told it would make a overqualified
:52:27. > :52:32.for most vacancies in the town. Her local MP has criticised the advance.
:52:32. > :52:38.That would create, I say, a brain drain. Hundreds of schools across
:52:38. > :52:41.Lincolnshire and Yorkshire were closed last week as members of the
:52:41. > :52:45.two biggest teaching union went on strike. They are angry about changes
:52:45. > :52:49.to pensions, increased workloads and plans to bring him perform rated
:52:49. > :52:52.pay. The government has accused those on strike of jeopardising the
:52:52. > :52:57.learning of their pupils. The fallout continues over Doncaster
:52:57. > :53:02.Impey and Labour leader Ed Miliband's clash with the Daily
:53:02. > :53:07.Mail. The newspaper has again refused to apologise for his demands
:53:07. > :53:10.the —— it's that addition of his father Ralph, a former politics
:53:10. > :53:15.lecturer, as a man who hated Britain.
:53:15. > :53:18.Had Ed Miliband not referred to his father Ralph in many of his
:53:19. > :53:24.conference speeches, would that have made him their game for the
:53:24. > :53:27.newspapers? I think people are interested in your back story, where
:53:27. > :53:32.you come from, the values that you have got but that was not what this
:53:32. > :53:35.Daily Mail article was about. I think most people now see that this
:53:35. > :53:41.was an absolutely appalling, disgraceful smear on Ed Miliband's
:53:41. > :53:47.late father. Masquerading as journalism. They thought they could,
:53:47. > :53:52.they were playing the man knocked the ball, they were playing the
:53:52. > :53:56.man's fathers. Having a picture of his grade and putting it in the
:53:56. > :54:03.paper, the vast majority of people, and this is not possibly political
:54:03. > :54:06.point —— this is not a party to little point, the vast majority of
:54:06. > :54:18.people thought that was disgraceful. They should have the guts to
:54:18. > :54:21.apologise. There is not a lot I can disagree with there. Too many people
:54:22. > :54:24.are playing the man in politics. It is perfectly legitimate to look at
:54:24. > :54:30.Ralph Miliband's political background, and the things he is
:54:30. > :54:34.saying, especially when Ed Miliband says his father influenced him on
:54:34. > :54:38.his issues, sometimes it looks back to the 1970s socialism. In terms of
:54:38. > :54:43.the personal attacks, I agree with Michael. You cannot do that in
:54:43. > :54:47.politics, it is unacceptable. In my own constituency, I have got members
:54:47. > :54:53.of the Labour Party trying to paint this picture that I am some toff
:54:53. > :54:59.from the south. I could not be further away from Eton if I tried.
:55:00. > :55:04.You have got to get down to policies. The Daily Mail have to
:55:04. > :55:09.reflect on their story. They had Mr —— a good story with the socialism
:55:09. > :55:12.of the background, but they had two Fat —— but they went too far with
:55:12. > :55:20.the attack. On the teachers strikes, were they right to seek that? We
:55:20. > :55:26.want to see a negotiated sage —— we want to see a negotiated
:55:26. > :55:33.settlement. Were they wrong to go on strike? I think it is a breakdown
:55:33. > :55:37.with the relationship. There needs to be a negotiated settlement. I do
:55:37. > :55:40.not think Michael Gove has helped. It is time we had a national debate
:55:40. > :55:44.about what is happening in our schools. We have got 6000 fewer
:55:44. > :55:49.teachers now, people leaving the teaching profession, that is one of
:55:49. > :55:51.the reasons why we have got, in Yorkshire, the number of infants
:55:51. > :55:57.school kids in classes beyond 30 kids class has doubled since the
:55:57. > :56:04.general election. That is a big worry.
:56:04. > :56:10.Many teachers do not like Michael Gove, do they? Whether they like him
:56:10. > :56:15.or not, we are putting into practice not just what is in our manifesto
:56:15. > :56:18.but extending what was put in under the last Labour government. It is
:56:18. > :56:22.interesting to note that on the one hand you are having an opposition
:56:22. > :56:30.who are opposed to free schools and academies. We are not opposed to the
:56:30. > :56:33.academies that you are continuing. Free schools are another way forward
:56:33. > :56:36.and I think Labour are opposed to them. We have got to get down to
:56:36. > :56:42.fundamental issues about what the striking is about. As a trade
:56:42. > :56:45.unionist, there is a role for trade unions to protect people in the
:56:45. > :56:49.workplace. They keep getting hijacked by political agendas and
:56:49. > :56:52.that has got to stop. I cannot tell you how difficult I have had this
:56:52. > :56:56.week from parents complaining about this strike. We will come back to
:56:56. > :57:00.this another time. Back to Westminster for you both tomorrow,
:57:00. > :57:07.clean had dishes, clean underwear packed no doubt. Your constituencies
:57:07. > :57:08.will no that you are both well groomed, well done!
:57:08. > :57:17.will no that you are both well have no time. Andrew, back to
:57:17. > :57:22.Our next guest is no stranger to controversy, a former UKIP MEP he
:57:22. > :57:43.recently lost his party's whip after a series of outbursts including
:57:43. > :57:47.receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land' and joking that a group of UKIP
:57:47. > :57:51.women who didn't clean behind their fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in
:57:51. > :57:54.independent but remains a UKIP party member. Here's a flavour of recent
:57:54. > :58:09.events in the political life of Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly
:58:09. > :58:15.be giving £1 million a month... Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails
:58:15. > :58:20.within 12 hours, only 47 were not agreeing with me so you are the
:58:20. > :58:22.within 12 hours, only 47 were not that is out of touch. Everybody
:58:23. > :58:26.knows me, a bit like the Marmite joke, they love me or they hate
:58:26. > :58:35.knows me, a bit like the Marmite but I have always told me like it
:58:35. > :58:40.is. I made a joke and said that women who did not clean behind the
:58:40. > :58:45.French were sluts and everybody laughed along, including the women.
:58:45. > :58:50.I have had hundreds of e-mails, saying, God Almighty, can't you
:58:50. > :58:54.I have had hundreds of e-mails, a joke any more? I am long in the
:58:54. > :59:06.correctness and I understand UKIP have moved on and they are doing
:59:06. > :59:10.well, and I wish them well. This, with no black faces on it. You are
:59:10. > :59:18.picking people out for the colour of with no black faces on it. You are
:59:18. > :59:24.the way they are doing things now with no black faces on it. You are
:59:25. > :59:31.disgrace me. We are joined now with a suitable distance between us by
:59:31. > :59:34.the independent MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You
:59:34. > :59:39.said this weekend that you have and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You
:59:39. > :59:49.be a complete sociopath to be in politics, are you a sociopath? No, I
:59:49. > :59:51.am just an ordinary bloke from the rugby club likes to tell it as it
:59:51. > :59:55.is. I did not come into politics to rugby club likes to tell it as it
:59:55. > :00:02.save my country from the clutches of the awful, evil... That is why I am
:00:02. > :00:14.in politics, and that is why I member, and I will still be voting
:00:14. > :00:21.ability... Do you accept that your conference? We were both born in
:00:21. > :00:24.ability... Do you accept that your same year, we are too old to worry
:00:24. > :00:30.about regrets. Let's look forward and see... Never mind the year I was
:00:30. > :00:35.born, what is the answer to my country and intent to do the best I
:00:35. > :00:42.independent for my country, and country and intent to do the best I
:00:42. > :00:47.re-elected. They are the only game in town, the only party that will
:00:47. > :00:56.get as out. Shouldn't you have been liability? You hijacked the party
:00:56. > :01:00.conference. That is a matter of perception. We have heard nothing in
:01:00. > :01:05.the last two years but it is a one-man band, a Nigel Farage party,
:01:05. > :01:13.the last two years but it is a meeting and collapse the whole
:01:13. > :01:22.Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or
:01:22. > :01:29.me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And
:01:29. > :01:43.myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable
:01:43. > :01:55.force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has
:01:55. > :02:00.been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June
:02:00. > :02:05.and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement
:02:05. > :02:13.about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote
:02:13. > :02:18.getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you
:02:18. > :02:23.what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip
:02:23. > :02:29.of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite,
:02:29. > :02:38.and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect
:02:38. > :02:41.that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP?
:02:41. > :02:46.Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP?
:02:46. > :02:53.have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David
:02:53. > :02:57.Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been
:02:57. > :03:01.gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of
:03:01. > :03:10.it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown
:03:10. > :03:13.machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might
:03:13. > :03:17.have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might
:03:17. > :03:23.you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in
:03:23. > :03:28.Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things
:03:28. > :03:31.in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You
:03:31. > :03:34.in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in
:03:34. > :03:35.in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of
:03:35. > :03:40.course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of
:03:40. > :03:45.of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't
:03:45. > :03:48.of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment
:03:48. > :03:52.love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as
:03:52. > :03:54.an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as
:03:54. > :04:07.European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could
:04:07. > :04:10.do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate
:04:10. > :04:14.again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate
:04:14. > :04:18.but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate
:04:18. > :04:21.help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in
:04:21. > :04:26.Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the
:04:26. > :04:29.fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance
:04:29. > :04:34.to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I
:04:34. > :04:47.am sure we will be having a beer take it? For those of you who were
:04:47. > :04:52.shrugged! Thank you very much for joining. A great pleasure. I will
:04:52. > :04:57.have to move my own share, you do not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing
:04:57. > :05:05.that! Nobody votes for UKIP because they think they are a smooth, slick,
:05:05. > :05:08.absence of PR polish is the reason for their popularity, so these are
:05:08. > :05:12.skirmishes are not a problem, and more than that, Godfrey Bloom does
:05:12. > :05:18.make Nigel Farage look better. Even in that clip from Andrew Marr, he
:05:18. > :05:20.juxtaposition with someone like Godfrey Bloom than he has done
:05:20. > :05:25.before. I mean, he did hijacked Godfrey Bloom than he has done
:05:25. > :05:28.conference, it was a disaster, they got tonnes of publicity but not
:05:28. > :05:35.conference, it was a disaster, they kind they wanted. But you have to
:05:35. > :05:38.journalists. I thought he was sexist long before anyone else, he used to
:05:38. > :05:43.have an incredible page on his website entitled Godfrey Bloom:
:05:43. > :05:47.Misogynist, and the proof that he photographed with a girls' rugby
:05:47. > :05:53.characters in politics. He does photographed with a girls' rugby
:05:53. > :05:57.Nigel Farage look better, but is sin was to say things you said before
:05:57. > :06:01.but to ruin the party conference. It sounds like he is coming back. A
:06:01. > :06:06.beer in Brussels and he will be sounds like he is coming back. A
:06:06. > :06:09.on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a beer in that built the Chechen,
:06:09. > :06:11.on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a sounds like it may be what the deal
:06:11. > :06:15.is that he comes back into UKIP sounds like it may be what the deal
:06:15. > :06:20.does not stand as an MEP at the European Parliamentary elections. --
:06:20. > :06:32.in that built the kitchen. It is Godfrey Bloom said for people to
:06:32. > :06:37.electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as
:06:37. > :06:37.electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the
:06:37. > :06:40.three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the
:06:40. > :06:44.probably do it in the European elections and give them first place.
:06:44. > :06:55.The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making
:06:55. > :06:56.The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that
:06:56. > :06:58.he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that
:06:58. > :06:59.he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and
:06:59. > :07:01.councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need
:07:01. > :07:04.Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need
:07:04. > :07:06.ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster.
:07:06. > :07:10.David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster.
:07:10. > :07:12.David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women
:07:12. > :07:14.among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet?
:07:14. > :07:19.He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet?
:07:19. > :07:24.week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way
:07:24. > :07:29.businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics
:07:29. > :07:33.in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet
:07:33. > :07:38.table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary,
:07:38. > :07:40.whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:40. > :07:44.the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:44. > :07:47.women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:47. > :07:50.have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:50. > :07:55.big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we
:07:55. > :08:00.need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in
:08:00. > :08:03.need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing
:08:03. > :08:05.need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than
:08:05. > :08:13.need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she
:08:14. > :08:14.need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I
:08:14. > :08:18.think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I
:08:19. > :08:24.will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to
:08:24. > :08:32.will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin
:08:32. > :08:43.college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool,
:08:43. > :08:46.but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult
:08:46. > :08:48.brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger
:08:48. > :08:54.roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger
:08:54. > :08:57.told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary
:08:57. > :09:04.level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot
:09:04. > :09:07.James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive.
:09:07. > :09:11.What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive.
:09:11. > :09:15.like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City,
:09:15. > :09:19.like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important
:09:19. > :09:23.intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George
:09:23. > :09:32.Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls
:09:32. > :09:41.you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this
:09:41. > :09:48.now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to
:09:48. > :09:59.promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female
:09:59. > :10:03.women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember
:10:03. > :10:07.that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally
:10:07. > :10:11.amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without
:10:11. > :10:14.amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to
:10:14. > :10:20.change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened?
:10:20. > :10:26.personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less,
:10:26. > :10:27.personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters?
:10:27. > :10:29.personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend
:10:29. > :10:35.personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will
:10:35. > :10:40.change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference
:10:40. > :10:46.season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband
:10:46. > :10:51.season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders?
:10:51. > :10:56.I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still
:10:56. > :11:00.minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems
:11:00. > :11:02.minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the
:11:02. > :11:07.latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you
:11:07. > :11:14.wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the
:11:14. > :11:18.living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are
:11:18. > :11:21.booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but
:11:21. > :11:29.booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on
:11:29. > :11:32.about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband
:11:32. > :11:36.making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under
:11:37. > :11:48.their breath, this is global forces, will be dealt with, but Miliband's
:11:48. > :11:52.argument will be that there are people suffering, and even if the
:11:52. > :11:57.economy recovers, they will still forces, it is difficult to blame the
:11:57. > :12:03.government for that. Body being noticed now, there is nothing worse
:12:03. > :12:08.for the leader of the opposition than to be not noticed. -- but he is
:12:08. > :12:12.being noticed now. It seems that he in many ways has set the political
:12:12. > :12:18.weather. Look at the number of references to the Labour leader
:12:18. > :12:20.weather. Look at the number of Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr
:12:20. > :12:29.Obama's speech on a similar topic, living standards. Was the mentioning
:12:30. > :12:35.Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the same language, he has not gone that
:12:35. > :12:38.far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would be more worried now, because Labour
:12:39. > :12:41.through the kitchen sink at their conference. They came out with the
:12:41. > :12:47.biggest policy announcements they could, compulsory apprenticeships,
:12:47. > :12:49.the energy freeze on prices, and it generated a poll boost which has
:12:49. > :12:55.fizzled away within ten days. I generated a poll boost which has
:12:55. > :12:59.not know where they go from here. What is significant with Ed Miliband
:12:59. > :13:05.conference beaches, he has set the one nation Britain, and the problem
:13:05. > :13:07.with those speeches is people say, they are fine, they are academic,
:13:07. > :13:14.but what does it mean? What you they are fine, they are academic,
:13:14. > :13:18.now is an intellectual framework that translates into policies. The
:13:18. > :13:22.polls to watch are not the ones after the conferences, but at the
:13:22. > :13:26.end of the month when it has also pulled down. They will tell us where
:13:26. > :13:35.back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two, we are going. We will have to go
:13:35. > :13:37.back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two, time, same time, next week. If it is
:13:37. > :13:39.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.