:00:39. > :00:51.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:52. > :00:56.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:57. > :01:00.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:01. > :01:05.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:06. > :01:10.McCluskey about Unite union's strong McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:11. > :01:15.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:16. > :01:16.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:17. > :01:32.should be covered up. On the Sunday politics in Yorkshire
:01:33. > :01:36.and Lincolnshire we ask how the government should prepare for a
:01:37. > :01:38.changing climate amid claims we are facing a mini ice age.
:01:39. > :01:46.GPS tracking system to keep tabs on its staff.
:01:47. > :01:51.With me as always, the best and the brightest political panel, Helen
:01:52. > :01:54.Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who will be tweeting their
:01:55. > :01:59.humiliating climb-down is what they got wrong last week in the
:02:00. > :02:05.programme. If this can happen it to a Cabinet minister, what hope is
:02:06. > :02:08.there for anyone else? Thus the Home Affairs Select Committee concluded
:02:09. > :02:13.what many already thought about the treatment of Andrew Mitchell by
:02:14. > :02:17.three self-styled PC plebs. They met him to clear the air over what did
:02:18. > :02:21.or did not happen when he was prevented from ramming his bike
:02:22. > :02:26.through the Downing Street gates. But the officers gave the media and
:02:27. > :02:32.inaccurate account of that meeting. Two of them are even accused of
:02:33. > :02:34.misleading the Commons committee. The Independent Police Complaints
:02:35. > :02:40.Commission will now reopen there enquiry. This is not a story about
:02:41. > :02:46.Andrew Mitchell, it is about the police. Keith Vaz is often in high
:02:47. > :02:51.dudgeon and this is the highest dad and I have seen him in for some
:02:52. > :02:54.time. They could be held for contempt of Parliament and
:02:55. > :03:00.technically they could be sent to prison. It has blown up into an
:03:01. > :03:05.enormous story. I do not know what is worse, the police trying to
:03:06. > :03:08.stitch up a Cabinet member and try to mislead the media or the
:03:09. > :03:17.incompetence they have done it from day one. That is quite good. I would
:03:18. > :03:22.sleep more soundly at night if I knew the pleas were good at this. It
:03:23. > :03:27.is the incompetence that shocks me. And this is just a sideshow. We are
:03:28. > :03:30.still waiting on the main report as to what exactly happened outside
:03:31. > :03:36.Downing Street gates. But that not will be good for the police either.
:03:37. > :03:41.The file has gone from the Metropolitan police to the CPS, so
:03:42. > :03:47.we are limited about what we can say. This is about the police
:03:48. > :03:53.Federation. They were set up under statute in 1990 as a deal in which a
:03:54. > :03:57.police would not go on strike. This is a political campaign to get a
:03:58. > :04:01.Cabinet minister out and the legacy of this is the police Federation
:04:02. > :04:06.will have to be reformed. We will keep an eye on it. They were Ed
:04:07. > :04:14.Miliband's union backers, they swung the Labour leadership for him in
:04:15. > :04:18.2010. Now the Unite union looks like his biggest headache. The Sunday
:04:19. > :04:21.Times has seen extracts of the report into the alleged vote rigging
:04:22. > :04:28.to select a Labour candidate in Falkirk. There was evidence of
:04:29. > :04:33.coercion and Gregory as well as deliberate attempt to frustrate the
:04:34. > :04:38.enquiry. We will be speaking to Len McCluskey, the Unite union's General
:04:39. > :04:44.Secretary, in a moment. First out the saga began an almost ended up
:04:45. > :04:49.with the loss of 800 jobs at a petrochemical plant in Grangemouth.
:04:50. > :04:52.Unite were key players in the Grangemouth dispute and the union
:04:53. > :04:58.headed by Len McCluskey has come under fire for its intimidator Tariq
:04:59. > :05:00.tactics. In one instance demonstrators complete with an
:05:01. > :05:08.inflatable rat picketed the home of a INEOS director. The police were
:05:09. > :05:15.called. It was part of a strategy the union called leverage. But
:05:16. > :05:20.turning up at people's houses seems to represent an escalation. At the
:05:21. > :05:25.centre of the rout was Steve in deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS
:05:26. > :05:29.launched an investigation into him as he was suspected of using company
:05:30. > :05:34.time to engineer the selection of labour's candidate in Falkirk. That
:05:35. > :05:40.candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans
:05:41. > :05:51.resigned last week and denies any wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic
:05:52. > :05:57.climb-down by Unite union. Len McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to
:05:58. > :06:05.the Sunday Times we now know what is in this labour report on the Falkirk
:06:06. > :06:09.vote rigging. Forgery, coercion trickery, manipulation. You must be
:06:10. > :06:17.ashamed of how Unite union behaved in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article
:06:18. > :06:22.is lazy journalism. There is nothing new in the article. This was all
:06:23. > :06:28.dealt with by the Labour Party in the summer. We rejected those
:06:29. > :06:32.allegations then and we said we had done nothing wrong and both the
:06:33. > :06:37.Labour Party and the police in Scotland indicated there had been no
:06:38. > :06:43.wrongdoing. The report itself says you were trying to thwart the
:06:44. > :06:47.investigation. First you tried to fix the selection of a candidate to
:06:48. > :06:53.get your woman in and then you thwarted the investigation into the
:06:54. > :06:58.dirty deeds. The reality is the Labour Party report was deeply
:06:59. > :07:04.flawed. The Labour Party then instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to
:07:05. > :07:08.do an in-depth investigation and during that investigation they got
:07:09. > :07:13.to the bottom of what had happened and they decided there was no
:07:14. > :07:18.wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I was so confident we had done
:07:19. > :07:23.nothing, I called for an independent enquiry. They were forced to
:07:24. > :07:26.conclude there was no wrongdoing because the people who originally
:07:27. > :07:31.complained changed their evidence and we now know they did so because
:07:32. > :07:38.Unite union officials helped them to rewrite their retraction and Stevie
:07:39. > :07:44.Deans approved it. That is not true. We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into
:07:45. > :07:52.the public arena and what is that all about? Who is leaking this? They
:07:53. > :07:58.showed the Unite union was rewriting the retractions. This interview
:07:59. > :08:03.would go a lot better if you are allowed me to finish the question
:08:04. > :08:10.that you asked. These e-mails were put into the public arena by the PR
:08:11. > :08:16.company from INEOS. Why are they doing this? The truth of the matter
:08:17. > :08:20.is that all of the investigations that took place demonstrate there
:08:21. > :08:25.was nothing to answer. This idea that the Unite union has rewritten
:08:26. > :08:31.and the evidence from the families has been withdrawn, the families are
:08:32. > :08:39.a part of Stevie deems' family. They clarified the position. Do you deny
:08:40. > :08:46.that union officials were involved in the retractions? I deny it
:08:47. > :08:49.completely. This is important. Independent solicitors to witness
:08:50. > :08:57.statements from the family and they are the ones that were influencing
:08:58. > :09:03.the Labour Party with the position is clarified and there is no case to
:09:04. > :09:13.answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw their retractions? It is his family.
:09:14. > :09:17.So you do not deny it? It is his family. This is an ordinary, decent
:09:18. > :09:23.family who were faced with the full weight of the pleas, a forensic
:09:24. > :09:30.solicitor. Of course they spoke to Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a
:09:31. > :09:36.cesspit. Does it not need an independent investigation? This is a
:09:37. > :09:41.trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all the
:09:42. > :09:47.demands. The media, the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, the Conservative
:09:48. > :09:55.mouthpiece, they are laying tracks for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband
:09:56. > :09:58.should not fall into them. Since when did it become part of an
:09:59. > :10:08.industrial dispute to send mobs to the home of company families. This
:10:09. > :10:15.is a legitimate form of protest and it is a silent protest. We believe
:10:16. > :10:19.if faceless directors are making decisions that cripple communities,
:10:20. > :10:27.they cannot expect to simply drift back to their own leafy suburbia and
:10:28. > :10:34.not be countable. This is silent protest. It is lawful. It may be
:10:35. > :10:39.silent in Grangemouth, but it was not silent elsewhere. You went with
:10:40. > :10:46.a giant rat, loud-hailers telling everybody the neighbour was evil.
:10:47. > :10:52.No, we did not. You had loud-hailers, you even encouraged
:10:53. > :11:03.passing children in Grangemouth to join in. That is nonsense. Look at
:11:04. > :11:07.the rat. The reality is the Grangemouth community was going to
:11:08. > :11:14.be decimated, Grangemouth was going to become a ghost town. I reject
:11:15. > :11:18.totally this idea there were loud-hailers and children involved.
:11:19. > :11:25.That is a lie perpetrated by the Daily Mail. But you have used these
:11:26. > :11:32.tactics in other disputes. We have used the tactics in other disputes,
:11:33. > :11:37.but we have not used loud-hailers at people's homes. Because the labour
:11:38. > :11:43.laws are so restrictive we have to look at every available means that
:11:44. > :11:48.we can protest. It is an outrage, an absolute outrage, that this is
:11:49. > :11:54.happening to British workers in the 21st-century. It could not happen
:11:55. > :11:59.elsewhere. Is not intimidation the wider hallmark of your union? You
:12:00. > :12:05.were quoted as saying to do whatever it takes during your attempts to
:12:06. > :12:13.take over the Labour Falkirk constituency. You were instructing
:12:14. > :12:22.to dig out the nasty stuff on your opponents. That is not true. Let's
:12:23. > :12:28.see these e-mails? This is a con trick. Nobody is looking to dig
:12:29. > :12:35.out... This is the words of your legal services advisor. Unite has
:12:36. > :12:39.tried to instigate a revival of trade union values within the Labour
:12:40. > :12:45.Party. That is what Ed Miliband wanted us to do. As soon as we
:12:46. > :12:51.started to be in any way ineffective, there were screams and
:12:52. > :12:55.howls of derision. When the company started to investigate Stevie Deans,
:12:56. > :13:01.your friend, your campaign manager, that he was using company time to
:13:02. > :13:04.moonlight on the job, you called INEOS and said unless you stop the
:13:05. > :13:12.investigation we will bring Grangemouth to a standstill. I never
:13:13. > :13:20.said that at all. You brought it to a standstill. We never brought it to
:13:21. > :13:26.a standstill, the company did. Who says that I said that we would bring
:13:27. > :13:30.it to a standstill? You have read it in the newspapers. You should not
:13:31. > :13:36.believe everything. I did not make that threat to the management. You
:13:37. > :13:43.carried the threat out. You instigated an overtime ban and a
:13:44. > :13:47.work to rule. And that is what Grangemouth to a standstill because
:13:48. > :13:53.the company decided to close the petrochemical site down. Because
:13:54. > :13:59.Stevie Deans was suspended due introduced industrial action? Our
:14:00. > :14:05.members in Grangemouth felt he was being unfairly treated. In the end
:14:06. > :14:10.you're grandstanding almost cost Scotland is most important
:14:11. > :14:16.industrial facility. The day was saved by your total capitulation.
:14:17. > :14:24.Grandstanding, capitulation and humiliation are grand phrases. There
:14:25. > :14:28.is nothing about capitulation. Len McCluskey did not wake up one day
:14:29. > :14:34.and decide to have a dispute with INEOS. The workers in that factory
:14:35. > :14:38.democratically elect their shop stewards to represent them and to
:14:39. > :14:45.express to management their concerns and their views. That is what
:14:46. > :14:50.happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has condemned your union's handling of
:14:51. > :14:55.Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have you considered your position? Jack
:14:56. > :15:00.Straw and others in the Labour Party, you have to ask them what
:15:01. > :15:06.their agenda is. I am not interested in what he says. The truth of the
:15:07. > :15:13.matter is we responded to the requirements and needs of our
:15:14. > :15:18.members. At a mass meeting last Monday 100% supported their shop
:15:19. > :15:22.stewards and their union. We will continue to stand shoulder to
:15:23. > :15:26.shoulder with our members when they are faced with difficult situations.
:15:27. > :15:34.You have lost all the union rights. You have had to agree to a no strike
:15:35. > :15:40.rule, you have lost pension rights. We have not lost rights at all, we
:15:41. > :15:44.are still working with the company to implement its survival plan. The
:15:45. > :15:49.Prime Minister is always attacking unions and just lately he has taken
:15:50. > :15:56.to praising the automotive industry. Jaguar Land Rover,
:15:57. > :16:01.Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all Unite union members were the shop
:16:02. > :16:06.stewards are engaged positively to implement survival plans and to make
:16:07. > :16:11.a success for the company. That is what we do, but by the same token we
:16:12. > :16:15.stand shoulder to shoulder with our members who are in struggle and we
:16:16. > :16:21.will always do that and we will not be cowed by media attacks on us Is
:16:22. > :16:35.your leadership not proving to be as disastrous for the members as Arthur
:16:36. > :16:40.Scargill was for the NUM? My membership is growing. I am
:16:41. > :16:43.accountable to my members, two are executive, and the one thing they
:16:44. > :16:48.will know is that when they want me standing shoulder to shoulder with
:16:49. > :16:51.them when they have a problem, I will be there, despite the
:16:52. > :17:05.disgraceful attacks launched on us by the media.
:17:06. > :17:08."A country ready to welcome your investment which values your
:17:09. > :17:10.friendship and will never exclude anyone because of their race,
:17:11. > :17:13.religion, colour or creed." The words of the Prime minister at the
:17:14. > :17:16.World Islamic Economic Forum which was hosted for the first time in
:17:17. > :17:20.London this week. The PM's warm words are sure to be welcomed by
:17:21. > :17:22.British Muslims who have endured a spate of negative headlines. There's
:17:23. > :17:25.been the controversy over the wearing of the veil, attitudes to
:17:26. > :17:28.women, and the radicalisation of some young British Muslims. In a
:17:29. > :17:30.moment I'll be talking to the Secretary General of the Muslim
:17:31. > :17:42.Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. First - here's Giles Dilnot. The
:17:43. > :17:45.call to Friday prayers at the east London Mosque which has strong links
:17:46. > :17:51.with the Muslim Council of Britain, one of the more vocal groups amongst
:17:52. > :17:56.British Muslims. Despite the fact it frequently happens, it is neither
:17:57. > :18:00.helpful nor accurate to describe the British Muslim community. There are
:18:01. > :18:04.so many different sects, traditions, cultures and
:18:05. > :18:08.nationalities, it is more accurate to describe the British Muslim
:18:09. > :18:12.communities, but there is one question being put to them - are
:18:13. > :18:22.they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues Are
:18:23. > :18:26.they willing to confront radicalisation, attitudes to
:18:27. > :18:31.non-muslins, two women, and cases of sexual exploitation in a meaningful
:18:32. > :18:40.way? A number of them say no, not nearly enough. This former jihad de
:18:41. > :18:45.has spent ten years telling young Muslim teenagers how they can reject
:18:46. > :18:49.extremist radicalisation, using Outward Bound courses and community
:18:50. > :19:00.work, but he and others doing this work thing -- think some elders are
:19:01. > :19:10.failing the youngsters. This has been going on for decades, one
:19:11. > :19:14.figures -- thing is said in public to please people but in private
:19:15. > :19:19.something very different is being said and the messages are being
:19:20. > :19:26.confused. Some of the young people, it pushes them further into a space
:19:27. > :19:33.where they are vulnerable for radical recruiters. For many Muslim
:19:34. > :19:38.youngsters, life is about living 1's faith within an increasingly secular
:19:39. > :19:41.society, a struggle not helped if rigid interpretations of the Koran
:19:42. > :19:53.are being preached, say some sectors. Some practices often don't
:19:54. > :19:56.make sense in 21st-century Britain, and you are perhaps creating
:19:57. > :20:00.obstacles if you stick to those and it is perhaps better to let go of
:20:01. > :20:07.those cultural problems, especially when they need to clear injustices
:20:08. > :20:11.like forced marriage, reticence to talk about grooming for example or
:20:12. > :20:16.discrimination against women. There is a long list but I am very clear
:20:17. > :20:24.that in fact the bad Muslim is the one who sticks to unflinching,
:20:25. > :20:30.narrow dogmatic fundamentalist perception of religion. One issue
:20:31. > :20:38.often focused on is the wearing of minicab. Polling suggests 80% of
:20:39. > :20:54.Britons would favour a ban in public places. -- the niqab. Many people
:20:55. > :21:05.don't seem to recognise the legacy of the niqab. Many people preach
:21:06. > :21:09.that women should be sidelined and that they are sexual objects that
:21:10. > :21:14.should be covered up and the preservation of morality falls on
:21:15. > :21:18.their shoulders. The Muslim Council of Britain recently got praise for
:21:19. > :21:24.holding a conference on combating sexual exploitation. In the wake of
:21:25. > :21:28.abuse cases that had involved predominantly Pakistani men. For one
:21:29. > :21:35.man who has followed the story for some years, the Muslim Council of
:21:36. > :21:41.Britain needs to do much more. We need to get along together and if
:21:42. > :21:48.things like attitudes towards the normal slim girl in stark contrast
:21:49. > :21:52.to the expression of honour and chastity of the Muslim girl, your
:21:53. > :21:59.sister or daughter, are such that actions that would be an fought off
:22:00. > :22:06.with a slim girl becomes permissible with a white girl, then we are all
:22:07. > :22:11.in trouble. To some, attitudes to women are not limited to sexual
:22:12. > :22:16.interactions at the very structures of life in Muslim communities and
:22:17. > :22:19.indeed the Muslim Council of Britain itself. I would like to ask the
:22:20. > :22:26.Muslim Council of Britain what they are doing about the fact that very
:22:27. > :22:34.few mosques give voices to are doing about the fact that very
:22:35. > :22:36.the fact that someone women are experiencing female genital
:22:37. > :22:41.mutilation and forced marriages what about the women who are getting
:22:42. > :22:45.married and their marriages are not being registered and they are being
:22:46. > :22:49.left homeless and denied maintenance rights, what about the fact there
:22:50. > :22:53.are sharia rights that have been found to be discriminating against
:22:54. > :22:58.women, and the fact there are men in this country who continue to hold
:22:59. > :23:05.misogynistic views about women, what are you doing? The occasional press
:23:06. > :23:10.release will not solve this problem of a deeply patriarchal community.
:23:11. > :23:14.That all of these issues can be exploited to the point of Islam
:23:15. > :23:20.phobia is not doubted, but many Muslims feel that unless the
:23:21. > :23:27.communities do tackle this openly, a big cultural gap will exist between
:23:28. > :23:30.the two. And the Secretary General of the
:23:31. > :23:35.Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad, joins me now. One visible
:23:36. > :23:43.sign that sets muslins aside is the veils that cover women's faces. Do
:23:44. > :23:53.you think it makes them impossible to be part of mainstream society?
:23:54. > :23:57.The niqab is not an obligatory requirement. But do you accept that
:23:58. > :24:03.those who wear it are cutting themselves off from mainstream
:24:04. > :24:13.society? Some people do, and whilst wearing niqab, some of them are
:24:14. > :24:17.working in various walks of life successfully and it is seen as a
:24:18. > :24:22.faith requirement, but it is a red herring in the sense that it applies
:24:23. > :24:27.to such a small number of Muslim girls. For many Muslim preachers,
:24:28. > :24:37.isn't separation precisely the point of the niqab? Certainly not, if you
:24:38. > :24:42.look at the Muslim women in the public sphere, we have many very
:24:43. > :24:53.successful women. But not the ones who are veiled. Not in the public
:24:54. > :24:59.arena as such, but the veil is a practice which is practised by a
:25:00. > :25:05.very small number. Do you favour it? I personally think it is not a
:25:06. > :25:10.requirement. But do you think women should wear the veil? I think it is
:25:11. > :25:16.wrong to force women to wear the veil. I asked if in your opinion
:25:17. > :25:23.women should wear the veil? It is important not to force women to wear
:25:24. > :25:27.the veil. Should they of their free choice where the veil? A lot of
:25:28. > :25:32.individuals do things out of their free choice which I do not approve
:25:33. > :25:37.of, I don't think it is conducive it helps their cause, but I do not have
:25:38. > :25:41.the right to take their choice away from them. I am still unsure if you
:25:42. > :25:47.think it is a good thing or a bad thing. Are not many Muslim women in
:25:48. > :25:51.this country being forced by Muslim preachers and often their male
:25:52. > :25:56.relations who want to keep Muslim women their place? As I said, it is
:25:57. > :26:04.wrong for anyone to force Muslim women. But how would we ever know in
:26:05. > :26:11.a family if a woman was being forced? Exactly, we don't know what
:26:12. > :26:17.is going on in people 's homes and what pressure is being applied. I
:26:18. > :26:20.want you to look at this picture, very popular on Islamic websites,
:26:21. > :26:27.and it shows the women who is wearing the niqab having a straight
:26:28. > :26:32.route to heaven, and the other Muslim woman dressed in western gear
:26:33. > :26:40.condemned to hell. Do you consider that a proper message for Muslim
:26:41. > :26:46.women? Not at all, I don't. So any Islamic websites in Britain... The
:26:47. > :26:49.Muslim Council of Britain is an organisation of five affiliates from
:26:50. > :26:55.across the country and this is not coming from any of them. As I said,
:26:56. > :27:01.those minority views propagated by individuals should not be used to
:27:02. > :27:07.represent Muslim community. So that would not have the support of the
:27:08. > :27:10.Muslim Council of Britain? It would not have the support. What about the
:27:11. > :27:24.Muslim free school that requires children as young as 11 to wear a
:27:25. > :27:34.black veil outside of school? Do you agree with that? I am not sure
:27:35. > :27:42.exactly what the policy is... I have just told you, do you agree that
:27:43. > :27:48.girls as young as 11 should wear a black burka outside of school? I
:27:49. > :28:01.don't think it should be imposed on anybody. But this is the desired
:28:02. > :28:05.dress School of the Muslim females. I am asking for your view. I said it
:28:06. > :28:12.at the beginning that I do not think it should be imposed. Would you send
:28:13. > :28:26.your daughter to a school that would wear a black burka at the age of 11?
:28:27. > :28:29.Would you? No. It seems that some muslins are determined to segregate
:28:30. > :28:36.young Muslim girls right from the start to very early from society. It
:28:37. > :28:45.is not their segregation as such, I would say that there are faith
:28:46. > :28:48.schools, if you look at an Islamic girls school in Blackburn in a
:28:49. > :28:55.traditional setting, it has come the top of the league table this year in
:28:56. > :29:02.the secondary school league tables. But it doesn't make 11-year-olds
:29:03. > :29:09.wear black burkas. Many of those girls go on to have a successful
:29:10. > :29:17.career. Not wearing black burkas. I am sure there are examples of women
:29:18. > :29:20.who do have successful careers. There is a very conservative
:29:21. > :29:32.movement from the continent on Islam, and the issue supposedly
:29:33. > :29:40.based on Islamic law on their website. Here is one of their recent
:29:41. > :29:43.judgements. The female is encouraged to remain within the confines of her
:29:44. > :29:48.home as much as possible, she should not come out of the home without
:29:49. > :29:54.need and necessity. What do you think of that? We need to say the
:29:55. > :29:57.whole context of that quote. They are saying they should stay at home
:29:58. > :30:11.as much as possible, do you agree with that? I see many Muslim women
:30:12. > :30:15.who are walking about... But this is what the mosque is recommending
:30:16. > :30:32.women should do. The practice is quite the contrary. Let me show you
:30:33. > :30:42.another one. Another Fatwa. Do you agree with that? These have been
:30:43. > :30:49.picked out from material dating back to different cultural settings and
:30:50. > :30:55.in practice they are not applied. This is advice being given as we
:30:56. > :31:02.speak. This is not being practised. Do you agree with it? No, not at
:31:03. > :31:06.all. These are from the DL Monday mosques, how come 72 of these
:31:07. > :31:24.mosques are affiliated to your counsel? There may be publications
:31:25. > :31:30.from one of their scholars, but they have been written in countries
:31:31. > :31:35.abroad and translated. This is advice being given to young women
:31:36. > :31:41.now. They are affiliated to the Muslim Council of Britain. Do you
:31:42. > :31:46.ever speak to them about that? The Muslim Council is a very broad
:31:47. > :31:51.organisation. We are working on lots of common issues to create a
:31:52. > :32:00.community which positively integrates. Did you ever speak to
:32:01. > :32:07.them to say this is not appropriate for British Muslims? There may be
:32:08. > :32:14.certain ad buys and publications available, but people make their
:32:15. > :32:24.choices. So it is OK for your organisation to issue things like
:32:25. > :32:33.that? Many of these things will fall under scrutiny and we need to create
:32:34. > :32:38.that. Why do only 26% of British mosques have facilities for women?
:32:39. > :32:45.If you go back to the requirement of prayer, it was not obligatory for
:32:46. > :32:50.women to come to the masks to prayer. When a poorer community
:32:51. > :32:58.began putting up mosques at the very beginning in terraced houses... Did
:32:59. > :33:07.you have a policy to encourage them? Is it on your website? It is in our
:33:08. > :33:14.practices that 20% of the council have to be female. Coming out of
:33:15. > :33:21.this movement there is a conscious stream of superiority between
:33:22. > :33:25.Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at this quote. He is a well-known
:33:26. > :33:49.picture in this country. That is what he wants to stop. I
:33:50. > :33:57.disagree with that. We believe we live in this society and Muslims in
:33:58. > :34:03.any society of the world, and they have historically lived as
:34:04. > :34:09.minorities in many countries... You would this associate yourself from
:34:10. > :34:16.that? Why do you allow people like that to be affiliated to you? The
:34:17. > :34:20.requirement is for any organisation to be affiliated is that they are
:34:21. > :34:26.bound by the Charity commission's rules and regulations. We only
:34:27. > :34:33.accept those who are under the law of this country. This is a matter of
:34:34. > :34:43.taste. Let me move on to a bigger issue. In 2009 you signed the
:34:44. > :34:49.Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul declaration was signed. Do you still
:34:50. > :35:01.support it? No, we never signed it or supported it. One of your leading
:35:02. > :35:07.lights signed it. In the media mainstream he defended his position.
:35:08. > :35:15.You have this associated yourself from it? What is wrong with that? I
:35:16. > :35:21.am not sure about the declaration because we disassociated ourselves.
:35:22. > :35:30.Before reading it? We did not sign it. You have not read it? I do not
:35:31. > :35:36.know all the aspects of the declaration, but at the time in the
:35:37. > :35:46.national newspapers and media there was a discussion and a debate and it
:35:47. > :35:53.was highlighted that that was not what was meant by the declaration.
:35:54. > :36:01.When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From
:36:02. > :36:06.day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are
:36:07. > :36:13.personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of
:36:14. > :36:23.extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the
:36:24. > :36:28.mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described
:36:29. > :36:31.by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another
:36:32. > :36:37.speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad
:36:38. > :36:42.is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop
:36:43. > :36:50.extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with?
:36:51. > :36:56.We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or
:36:57. > :37:00.supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is
:37:01. > :37:06.a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is
:37:07. > :37:12.a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told
:37:13. > :37:17.their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to
:37:18. > :37:27.speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a
:37:28. > :37:34.Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did
:37:35. > :37:40.not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and
:37:41. > :37:49.have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I
:37:50. > :37:55.completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women,
:37:56. > :38:00.the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the
:38:01. > :38:05.toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted
:38:06. > :38:11.among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a
:38:12. > :38:19.non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which
:38:20. > :38:26.embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim
:38:27. > :38:31.community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which
:38:32. > :38:36.are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our
:38:37. > :38:42.view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The
:38:43. > :38:48.work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all
:38:49. > :38:53.associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are
:38:54. > :39:11.watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be talking to joke
:39:12. > :39:18.You are watching the Sunday politics for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.
:39:19. > :39:22.Coming up today, we ask how the government should prepare for a
:39:23. > :39:26.changing climate amid claims we are facing a mini ice age. Legendary TV
:39:27. > :39:40.weatherman John kept the offers his view. Kettley. And we ask what role
:39:41. > :39:47.a global military base played in the US buying row. And let's say hello
:39:48. > :39:55.to our guests, Karl Turner is an MP. And Julian Smith. Here we are
:39:56. > :40:00.between Halloween and bonfire night. Which ghoulishly go gives you bumps
:40:01. > :40:05.in the night? Who would like `` you would like to see on the bonfire? I
:40:06. > :40:13.am lighting the Ripon bonfire and I hope it is not going to be me. Any
:40:14. > :40:22.chance? Many possibilities. I am taking care ex`Mac `` excavation
:40:23. > :40:26.mark I am spoiled the choice. I think the entire coalition
:40:27. > :40:30.government. I would have to pick Nick Clegg. Tory and Labour MPs
:40:31. > :40:36.would agree that the Lib Dems are the worst. It is the only way we can
:40:37. > :40:43.afford to keep warm at the moment, gathering around a fire. Is it about
:40:44. > :40:46.time we found out what goes on at a controversial military base, which
:40:47. > :40:49.is situated on Yorkshire soil but run primarily by the Americans. For
:40:50. > :40:51.decades, there has been speculation about the nature of the
:40:52. > :40:56.intelligence`gathering carried out at RAF Menwith Hill near Harrogate.
:40:57. > :40:59.In a special report for the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and
:41:00. > :41:02.Lincolnshire, the director of Big Brother Watch, Nick Pickles, tells
:41:03. > :41:10.us why his organisation is taking legal action to lift the lid on the
:41:11. > :41:14.secretive world of surveillance. Tapping the German Chancellor's
:41:15. > :41:19.Mobile looks like the final straw even for American politicians, and
:41:20. > :41:25.the men and women running the base in this Yorkshire are now more like
:41:26. > :41:30.lead to face closer questioning. RAF Menwith Hill, run by the National
:41:31. > :41:35.Security agency of America, is one of the biggest surveillance the
:41:36. > :41:41.Sillett is in Europe. It has satellite and electronic signals and
:41:42. > :41:45.Private intervals `` and for many years foreign governments and the
:41:46. > :41:49.European Parliament have been denied meaningful information about what
:41:50. > :41:54.goes on behind these fences. And yet the iconic golf balls have a part of
:41:55. > :42:01.the Yorkshire skyline for decades. And with revelations of Edward
:42:02. > :42:04.Snowden illuminating the scale of surveillance undertaken by Britain
:42:05. > :42:11.and America, including surveillance of allies and world leaders, the did
:42:12. > :42:15.date around the world is if the surveillance is fit for purpose. And
:42:16. > :42:20.I think it is worrying we do not have the same debate in written. It
:42:21. > :42:26.is intolerable that German law has been broken in this way. It is no
:42:27. > :42:34.surprise that world leaders have their communications intercept test
:42:35. > :42:40.and that RAF Menwith Hill plays a part in the agency infrastructure. I
:42:41. > :42:44.have been part of the intelligence business the 50 years. Leadership
:42:45. > :42:50.intentions, it is a basic tenet of what we collect and analyse. The
:42:51. > :42:54.role the base plays is far from clear, but we know that data
:42:55. > :42:59.gathered is a large part of the agency's work. What happens when
:43:00. > :43:11.mass surveillance for a foreign government takes lace in Britain?
:43:12. > :43:15.The organisation of which I am director is taking legal action
:43:16. > :43:19.through the European Court of human rights on the basis that
:43:20. > :43:23.infringements of the CBN carried out around the world are neither
:43:24. > :43:27.necessary or proportionate in a free State and the laws passed by
:43:28. > :43:30.Parliament to govern this surveillance are not fit for
:43:31. > :43:37.purpose. For decades, the American government has kept details of what
:43:38. > :43:41.goes on here secret. Part of the legal action will involve shining a
:43:42. > :43:46.spotlight on to these bases to ask what goes on there. How much
:43:47. > :43:51.information is being collected? And when did we as Britain ever give
:43:52. > :43:59.permission for so much data to be collected about us, every day? That
:44:00. > :44:03.was Nick Pickles from Big Brother Watch. Julian Smith, you are the MP
:44:04. > :44:09.that covers the area of the military base. Do we need to know what is
:44:10. > :44:18.happening? It is in my constituency. This idea that the law does not
:44:19. > :44:22.allow it to be analysed is completely wrong. We have
:44:23. > :44:26.ministerial oversight and Parliamentary oversight and we have
:44:27. > :44:29.judicial commissioners who check on ministerial decisions around our
:44:30. > :44:37.intelligence services, and the select committee has just been given
:44:38. > :44:40.new powers to ask any question of the intelligence services, including
:44:41. > :44:45.to go in and ask questions at RAF Menwith Hill will stop why did the
:44:46. > :44:50.public who live there not know what goes on there? I looked at the
:44:51. > :44:54.website before the programme and it states that the intelligence of that
:44:55. > :44:59.committee and Parliament has oversight and that base has been
:45:00. > :45:05.part of the legal framework for many years. Did you know that world
:45:06. > :45:10.leaders, including the Russian president, have hacked their
:45:11. > :45:15.telephones tapped from RAF Menwith Hill? It is not my is nice to be
:45:16. > :45:23.involved in the intelligence services but my job is to make sure
:45:24. > :45:27.the laws are in place. And those laws are very tight. It is wrong to
:45:28. > :45:32.tell the public they are not. Is there a danger that we are
:45:33. > :45:40.sleepwalking into a surveillance state? I agree with what Julian has
:45:41. > :45:45.said. We have always had intelligence gathering and sharing
:45:46. > :45:49.of information between the US and UK. It must be done in a legal
:45:50. > :45:54.framework and be necessary and authorised. I am told on reasonable
:45:55. > :46:03.authority that those factors are present. You called for the Guardian
:46:04. > :46:08.newspaper to be prosecuted for publishing the leaks from Edward
:46:09. > :46:16.Snowden. The Guardian is a good newspaper. It is right to report on
:46:17. > :46:21.these leaks. In the detail of those reports, it went to a depth that has
:46:22. > :46:27.threatened national security and I believe that by sending those
:46:28. > :46:31.files, particularly those they admitted sending overseas, they have
:46:32. > :46:36.potentially broken the law, that is not for me to decide, but they have
:46:37. > :46:42.risked national security. That is my complaint, the way they have dealt
:46:43. > :46:48.with this reporting. Some people talked about it being the worst leak
:46:49. > :46:51.of intelligence for decades. You would feel the same if they were
:46:52. > :46:56.published by the Daily Mail newspaper? Did the Telegraph reach
:46:57. > :47:01.security when it published MPs expenses? The God `` the Guardian is
:47:02. > :47:07.a good newspaper but I think they have gone too far. I think many
:47:08. > :47:12.people inside the Guardian feel the same according to intelligence I
:47:13. > :47:18.have. I think that Julian is alleging a reach of national
:47:19. > :47:24.security and criminality, actually, and I do not know whether it is
:47:25. > :47:29.wrong. I am right to say he was parading on the terrace of the House
:47:30. > :47:35.of Commons with more than 40 employees from RAF Menwith Hill. You
:47:36. > :47:40.have to be careful here. In one newspaper it said you published a
:47:41. > :47:44.picture on your Facebook site. They asked me to have a photograph, they
:47:45. > :47:52.were pleased to be in the photograph. I think it is called a
:47:53. > :47:56.red herring! Every year, there is a debate about how much salt our local
:47:57. > :48:00.councils have to grit the road with. But how would we cope we enter a
:48:01. > :48:03.mini ice`age, with much harsher winters over the coming years? If
:48:04. > :48:06.some scientists are to be believed, ministers should be rethinking our
:48:07. > :48:09.future energy policy with claims there could even be a lack of wind
:48:10. > :48:22.to power those controversial wind turbines. The stormy scenes at the
:48:23. > :48:25.beginning of the week were a stark reminder of disruption that can be
:48:26. > :48:31.caused by extreme weather conditions. But according to one
:48:32. > :48:36.scientist, we should prepare for a different kind of climate challenge.
:48:37. > :48:41.It is claimed harsh winters like the big freeze of 1963 could become more
:48:42. > :48:50.common, due to a decline in solar act liberty. `` solar activity. We
:48:51. > :48:55.might need more snowploughs and power stations to meet energy
:48:56. > :49:01.demands. These things big, more sensible and economic to do, if you
:49:02. > :49:09.are going to face many more cold winters. Professor Lockwood's
:49:10. > :49:15.research has been seized upon by those against wind farms, who claim
:49:16. > :49:19.his prediction of cold Siberian winters will see a reduction in
:49:20. > :49:27.milder air coming in off the Atlantic, in other words, less wind.
:49:28. > :49:33.Melvin Grosvenor led a campaign that blocked a development of eight giant
:49:34. > :49:36.wind turbines on the Ed `` in Lincolnshire. He supports other
:49:37. > :49:43.communities where there is opposition to new wind farms. If the
:49:44. > :49:50.wind is not blowing, we know, as from the winter in 2011, there was
:49:51. > :49:54.little wind, and no energy produced from wind turbines. If we go down
:49:55. > :49:59.this route, we will have no energy and blackouts and peep will suffer
:50:00. > :50:07.the impact on landscape `` people will suffer. Is it about science, or
:50:08. > :50:14.you saying you do not want them on the landscape? It is a mixed issue.
:50:15. > :50:20.People will be able to cope with and accept a project if they feel that
:50:21. > :50:24.it will create... Solve the problem of potentially changing climate. But
:50:25. > :50:33.if you have the wrong technology, doing the wrong thing, there is a
:50:34. > :50:37.huge problem. With differing opinion on how to manage the future energy
:50:38. > :50:43.needs, I sought advice from a familiar face. If you were a
:50:44. > :50:48.government minister, how would you plan for future energy needs? I
:50:49. > :50:54.would think what is it all about? We have had conflict in evidence for 20
:50:55. > :50:59.years. There will always be wind, we are an island and we get windy
:51:00. > :51:05.weather, but there is always the chance of the North West UK being
:51:06. > :51:10.more windy down here. Farmers have been encouraged, and rightly so, if
:51:11. > :51:15.it grows warmer, to grow maize, which has been taken on board by
:51:16. > :51:19.several farmers in Lincolnshire in particular, which is a good thing,
:51:20. > :51:28.because you can produce fuel from maize, which is a good idea for
:51:29. > :51:32.them. It costs a lot to run a farm. The diesel. Mays needs warmer
:51:33. > :51:41.weather. If it turned colder, that would be a waste of time. `` the
:51:42. > :51:47.crop maize. We will use renewable energy and more of them. It is a
:51:48. > :51:51.wonderful thing. I am a great fan of renewable energy. The other stuff
:51:52. > :51:56.will run out. We have to go for alternatives. It might be nuclear,
:51:57. > :52:04.but certainly diesel Turner tits have a place in society. Whatever
:52:05. > :52:13.happens `` diesel alternatives. We are still going to need renewable
:52:14. > :52:18.energy. Whether we are facing a mini ice age or not, one thing that is
:52:19. > :52:24.unlikely to freeze in the future is household energy bills. It is great
:52:25. > :52:31.to see a television legend. We could not afford Michael Fish excavation
:52:32. > :52:38.mark we have been told the years that the climate change will create
:52:39. > :52:43.a Mediterranean climate, now it is said to be an ice age. Who do you
:52:44. > :52:54.believe? There is plenty of wind off the humbug, and we are desperate for
:52:55. > :53:00.the investment to grow the economy `` in the Humberside region. Do
:53:01. > :53:03.something about the big energy companies and freeze bills and
:53:04. > :53:07.regulate the industry properly so that people will can afford to pay
:53:08. > :53:15.their bills. People will die this winter as a result of being cold.
:53:16. > :53:22.People will say that the cost of the bills are due to the former Labour
:53:23. > :53:26.minister, Ed Miliband. People will say the green taxes were put on by
:53:27. > :53:30.David Cameron. Those put on by Ed Miliband when he was Secretary of
:53:31. > :53:35.State were supported I David Cameron when he was in opposition. The
:53:36. > :53:39.Tories need to be careful. They are trying to have a review to kick this
:53:40. > :53:47.into the long grass. David Cameron is doing the bidding for the big six
:53:48. > :53:51.energy companies. People in my constituency, his constituency, and
:53:52. > :53:57.Julian's constituency, will die this winter as a result of not being able
:53:58. > :54:02.to afford to put the heating on. It is important not to exaggerate.
:54:03. > :54:07.Using words about death and some of those comments, it is
:54:08. > :54:12.scaremongering. But it is a big problem. For your viewers, I would
:54:13. > :54:17.reassure them that whether it is Yorkshire water, who pay no taxes
:54:18. > :54:21.and have put up ills, whether it is the energy companies and the review
:54:22. > :54:26.of green taxes, all of these areas of cost of living, there will be
:54:27. > :54:32.progress. We have to do things that are sensible and not just headline
:54:33. > :54:40.grabbing like price freezes which I don't think anybody believes will
:54:41. > :54:44.work. We need to freeze energy bills to control the prices. In that
:54:45. > :54:51.two`year period, we need to regulate the industry properly, to give the
:54:52. > :54:55.regulator teeth and ensure that they do not keep on taking advantage of
:54:56. > :55:01.people by increasing their energy bills. Do you access that is the
:55:02. > :55:08.government is seen by many as not doing enough to stand up to the
:55:09. > :55:11.energy companies? We are forcing energy companies to put people on
:55:12. > :55:16.the lowest tariff in the energy bill. We are pushing forward with
:55:17. > :55:23.annual competition reviews to make sure competition is better. On
:55:24. > :55:29.water, there will be a gig announcement. We are having a debate
:55:30. > :55:34.next week. Many MPs have been pushing on the behaviour of water
:55:35. > :55:40.companies. `` big announcement. Action will be taken. The government
:55:41. > :55:45.understands the cost of living is the number one issue at the moment.
:55:46. > :55:51.It is no coincidence that the government, David Cameron armour is
:55:52. > :55:56.saying what it `` what the big energy companies are saying. He is
:55:57. > :56:00.doing the ending for them and whose side is the Prime Minister on? Is it
:56:01. > :56:06.people struggling to pay bills, or the energy companies making aliens
:56:07. > :56:10.of pounds in profit off the back of people who are struggling. Making a
:56:11. > :56:16.decision whether to turn on the heating, or whether to eat some
:56:17. > :56:20.food. It is disgusting. There is a bill in the House of Lords and the
:56:21. > :56:25.government could act and lay down an amendment. And with the piers
:56:26. > :56:30.supporting it and doing the same when it comes back to the House of
:56:31. > :56:34.Commons. He chooses not to do that. I think there will be announcements
:56:35. > :56:40.in the Autumn statement. Action is being taken. We need action now.
:56:41. > :56:48.People will die, it is not scaremongering. To suggest people
:56:49. > :56:57.will die because of cold weather, it is the truth. To reassure your
:56:58. > :57:02.viewers... Let him answer. Cold weather payments and the benefits
:57:03. > :57:05.for people suffering will remain and it is important to emphasise that
:57:06. > :57:11.action will be taken on these issues. Now we can get more of the
:57:12. > :57:23.political news with Len Tingle and a round`up in 60 seconds. The debate
:57:24. > :57:25.of the week on upgrading the existing line to London or spend
:57:26. > :57:33.billions building the high`speed rail link. A BBC survey of MPs and
:57:34. > :57:38.council leaders revealed most in favour, with a strongly dissenting
:57:39. > :57:44.minority, as demonstrated by a Sheffield MP and the Bradford
:57:45. > :57:48.Council leader. It will be good news for Northern England and regions
:57:49. > :57:55.like Sheffield. There may be better ways of spending ?52 billion. Is the
:57:56. > :58:00.tentative economic recovery as firm as the government thinks? Ask the
:58:01. > :58:09.workers in Scunthorpe who lost their jobs this week because of a downturn
:58:10. > :58:12.in orders from the construction industry. And a travel guide put
:58:13. > :58:15.Yorkshire as the third best place in the world to visit. Can we have a
:58:16. > :58:23.debate to prove that even this, Yorkshire is not just the third, but
:58:24. > :58:29.indeed is God 's own county? I do not think we need a debate on that.
:58:30. > :58:34.Karl Turner, on high`speed rail, why is labour sending out mixed
:58:35. > :58:41.messages? I do not think we are. We support it. We are not prepared to
:58:42. > :58:45.write David Cameron a blank cheque. It seems costs are spiralling. It
:58:46. > :59:00.started at her two 4 billion. We are now told it is ?52 billion. `` at 2
:59:01. > :59:06.billion `` 34 billion. We are not prepared to sit back and watch the
:59:07. > :59:13.government make mistakes. We need to make sure public money is well
:59:14. > :59:17.spent. I think hearing that about the mantle prudence from Labour,
:59:18. > :59:22.given the mess they left the country in is very rich indeed. The
:59:23. > :59:27.high`speed rail project is right for the North and the country and I will
:59:28. > :59:32.be backing it. I am confident that if we can get Labour to stick to one
:59:33. > :59:39.decision, which is a yes decision, this country will have the link as
:59:40. > :59:41.soon as possible. You have the leaders of some of the biggest
:59:42. > :59:49.cities accusing Ed balls of dithering. I do not think he has
:59:50. > :59:57.been dithering. We are not prepared to give David Cameron a blank
:59:58. > :00:03.cheque. There was a vote in the House of Commons. There were very
:00:04. > :00:14.few Labour MPs at that. Why were they not there to back it? More Tory
:00:15. > :00:19.MPs boasted `` voted against it than Labour MPs yesterday. With respect,
:00:20. > :00:27.it is pot, kettle and black. On the economy, we saw more than 300 steel
:00:28. > :00:33.jobs lost in Scunthorpe. There is a long way to go before the area's
:00:34. > :00:37.economy improves. We are turning a corner and the economy is healing. I
:00:38. > :00:44.am confident from going around businesses and seeing the rate of
:00:45. > :00:48.start`up businesses and 1.5 million jobs created since the last election
:00:49. > :00:52.and high performing as this is in Yorkshire, that we are wrong the
:00:53. > :00:56.right track, that does not eat it will not continue to be difficult.
:00:57. > :01:05.We are out of the mess we were left in. I welcome any activity in the
:01:06. > :01:09.current economy. If it is improving, I am glad about that. We are not
:01:10. > :01:14.seeing it in my area with youth employment going up `` ease
:01:15. > :01:26.unemployment going up. There is a cost of living crisis. `` youth
:01:27. > :01:31.unemployment. Yorkshire, the third most popular place to come on
:01:32. > :01:38.holiday. Where would you recommend people visit? Skipton and Ripon, the
:01:39. > :01:43.best areas of Yorkshire to visit. Any advice people need, let me know.
:01:44. > :01:50.It is a stunning constituency. We have the city culture did in and I
:01:51. > :01:57.recommend the whole visit the city of Hull. It is fantastic. I am told
:01:58. > :02:01.people are welcome in Barnsley as long as they do not put any rude
:02:02. > :02:09.objects on the statue of the cricket umpire Dickie Bird.
:02:10. > :02:18.you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's relationship with Unite and other
:02:19. > :02:30.issues all to be discussed in the Week Ahead and we're joined now by
:02:31. > :02:34.the shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. First I would like to get
:02:35. > :02:37.your reaction to the interview I did earlier with the General Secretary
:02:38. > :02:40.of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. Let's look at what he said. This is
:02:41. > :02:44.a trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all of the
:02:45. > :02:49.demands and the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, are you telling me
:02:50. > :02:53.they are not the conservative mouthpiece in the media? They are
:02:54. > :02:59.laying traps for Ed Miliband and he should not fall into them. Though it
:03:00. > :03:05.is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey denies a lot of the allegations put,
:03:06. > :03:11.but let me be clear in an industrial dispute, the use of aggressive or
:03:12. > :03:15.intimidatory tactics by either side is totally unacceptable. Do you
:03:16. > :03:20.think it is wrong for Unite to send its members to the homes of
:03:21. > :03:24.managers? I don't know what happened in that particular case, but I think
:03:25. > :03:29.you should keep people 's families out of these things and if you are
:03:30. > :03:33.doing something that can upset particularly children, that is a bad
:03:34. > :03:40.thing. I know he denied a number of things you put to him. We now know
:03:41. > :03:45.some of the content of Labour 's own report into what happened at Falkirk
:03:46. > :03:48.and they found all sorts of things - forgery, coercion, trickery and even
:03:49. > :04:01.that their own investigation was being thwarted by Unite. What should
:04:02. > :04:10.Labour do next? I have not read the report. We are told that the latest
:04:11. > :04:13.allegations that have been made is something that the police are
:04:14. > :04:24.looking into so that is not something I think would be
:04:25. > :04:28.appropriate for me to comment on. We learned Labour Party members in the
:04:29. > :04:33.Falkirk constituency have complained to the leader of the Scottish party
:04:34. > :04:44.about a lack of action by the Labour Party on what happened in Falkirk. I
:04:45. > :04:47.am not part of the Scottish party and that is news to me. But the
:04:48. > :04:51.police have indicated they are looking at the new information that
:04:52. > :04:55.has come to light. It is a bit like the 1980s and there was an
:04:56. > :05:00.electrifying moment when Neil Kinnock took on the militant
:05:01. > :05:05.tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take
:05:06. > :05:12.on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an
:05:13. > :05:16.electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for
:05:17. > :05:20.seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the
:05:21. > :05:26.disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk
:05:27. > :05:30.categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying
:05:31. > :05:37.to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members.
:05:38. > :05:41.In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had
:05:42. > :05:47.people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is
:05:48. > :05:52.that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from
:05:53. > :05:56.party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced
:05:57. > :06:00.this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we
:06:01. > :06:05.change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 2 th
:06:06. > :06:10.century. The reform of the way in which we connect and our
:06:11. > :06:14.relationship with the union puts us in a good position because we have
:06:15. > :06:25.this relationship between the 3 million working people who ensure
:06:26. > :06:29.our public services function. At Grangemouth INEOS stood up to
:06:30. > :06:36.unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk Labour rolled over to the Unite
:06:37. > :06:44.union. I do not agree with that I'd just explained the reason. I do not
:06:45. > :06:50.think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the
:06:51. > :06:55.basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it
:06:56. > :07:01.after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to
:07:02. > :07:07.send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be
:07:08. > :07:12.secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That
:07:13. > :07:18.constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it.
:07:19. > :07:24.This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do
:07:25. > :07:30.not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an
:07:31. > :07:38.ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory
:07:39. > :07:42.suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union
:07:43. > :07:50.members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the
:07:51. > :07:59.facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made On
:08:00. > :08:04.your point I think it is healthy the Conservatives are looking to recruit
:08:05. > :08:12.trade union members. A lot of their rhetoric is very negative in respect
:08:13. > :08:18.of trade unions. If you look at Unison a third of the members vote
:08:19. > :08:22.Conservative. In Unite union some of their members vote Tory. I think
:08:23. > :08:28.trade unions have a lot to bring to our country. It is one of the things
:08:29. > :08:34.many up and down the country will find very frustrating, a lot of the
:08:35. > :08:37.good work that unions do if it gets tarnished with all the negative
:08:38. > :08:43.stuff you see... Unite are working in partnership with GM and the
:08:44. > :08:48.senior management in Ellesmere Port and the government ensured that we
:08:49. > :08:56.kept that plant open. That gets overlooked by all of this. Do you
:08:57. > :09:01.not think the bolshie behaviour from unions are motivated not by
:09:02. > :09:05.strength, but by weakness. Unite know they cannot paralyse the
:09:06. > :09:10.country in the way their forebears used to be able to do. Their
:09:11. > :09:15.penetration rates in the private sector is 11%. The union movement is
:09:16. > :09:20.weaker than it was before I was born. Some of that truck killers and
:09:21. > :09:25.bad behaviour either death spasms of their movement rather than something
:09:26. > :09:34.that is motivated by the fact they can't paralyse the country. You have
:09:35. > :09:39.two increase the membership. But there is an issue about the public
:09:40. > :09:44.perception of trade unions. It is right they should be a voice of
:09:45. > :09:49.protest and anger and stand up for their members when it is necessary.
:09:50. > :09:55.But people join unions for their aspiration. The unions do a lot so
:09:56. > :10:00.that people can move up in their workplace. That profile needs to
:10:01. > :10:07.come across as strongly as the protest part. I want to move on to
:10:08. > :10:14.business. The head of the CBI has said that Labour's pro-enterprise
:10:15. > :10:20.credentials have suffered a setback. He said that in relation to Ed
:10:21. > :10:24.Miliband's speech. I was on the radio earlier. If you look at the
:10:25. > :10:28.things in the speech, some of that was going to be uncomfortable for
:10:29. > :10:32.some of the countries and they tend to be companies represented by the
:10:33. > :10:39.CBI, like energy companies, like land developers, a lot of the big
:10:40. > :10:46.business lose out from is not doing the corporate tax cut. The energy
:10:47. > :10:51.freeze is going to help over 2. million businesses that have been
:10:52. > :10:55.hit by high energy bills. The business community has said we had
:10:56. > :11:01.to bring the public sector finances back into balance. That is why we
:11:02. > :11:07.decided to switch the money being used to reduce corporation tax and
:11:08. > :11:11.use that to help a much greater variety of businesses by doing a
:11:12. > :11:20.business rate cut. It is all pro enterprise. They also seem to be
:11:21. > :11:26.critical of your new idea of a living wage. They are not critical.
:11:27. > :11:32.It would not be compulsory, but there would be a tax credit if they
:11:33. > :11:37.paid it. It is good for business because if people are earning more
:11:38. > :11:43.than they are more productive. It is good for the employee and good for
:11:44. > :11:50.us as well because it means we are not having to subsidise people to be
:11:51. > :11:58.paid to the extent we have with tax credits and benefits. Everybody
:11:59. > :12:05.benefits from this. We all know after 2009 we need to have bold
:12:06. > :12:12.change. Does Labour paid a living wage? We have got over 20 of our
:12:13. > :12:18.councils signed up to doing so and we have made commitments in respect
:12:19. > :12:27.to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party pay it? I believe so. Would it not
:12:28. > :12:41.be worth checking? Do you get a living wage? Yes, of course I do. I
:12:42. > :12:46.understand we paid a living wage. What does it feel like for Tristram
:12:47. > :12:53.Hunt who has taken over your mantle as Labour's next leader? Is that a
:12:54. > :12:58.relieved or are you angry? He is one of my best friends and at the end of
:12:59. > :13:03.the day if we got obsessed with this soap opera stuff we would never get
:13:04. > :13:11.anything done and we are working together to make sure we have got
:13:12. > :13:18.the right skills in our workforce. That is all for today. The daily
:13:19. > :13:27.politics is on all week. I will be here again next weekend at 12:2 pm
:13:28. > :13:28.after the Remembrance Day service at the Cenotaph. Remember if it is
:13:29. > :13:58.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Planet Earth - it's unique.
:13:59. > :14:02.It has life. To understand why, we're going to
:14:03. > :14:10.build a planet...up there. There were the objects that were
:14:11. > :14:13.making the Earth. We're now weightless.
:14:14. > :14:16.That's how our planet started. Your arms are a little bit long
:14:17. > :14:19.Is that as small as they go? This is like every shopping trip
:14:20. > :14:23.I've ever been on.