:00:35. > :00:40.Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week.
:00:41. > :00:43.It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 201 .
:00:44. > :00:46.The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and
:00:47. > :00:51.Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head.
:00:52. > :00:54.The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well
:00:55. > :00:58.for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about.
:00:59. > :01:00.Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the
:01:01. > :01:07.Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future.
:01:08. > :01:10.The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling,
:01:11. > :01:34.And with me throughout the show three top-flight political
:01:35. > :01:37.journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt,
:01:38. > :01:51.They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal.
:01:52. > :01:54.The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling
:01:55. > :01:57.around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring.
:01:58. > :01:59.Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier
:02:00. > :02:01.handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official
:02:02. > :02:04.files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child
:02:05. > :02:09.Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection
:02:10. > :02:14.But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning
:02:15. > :02:20.the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out.
:02:21. > :02:26.The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due
:02:27. > :02:29.process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and
:02:30. > :02:34.we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the
:02:35. > :02:36.past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the
:02:37. > :02:41.allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in
:02:42. > :02:46.order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the
:02:47. > :02:50.case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring
:02:51. > :02:55.tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the
:02:56. > :02:59.Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very
:03:00. > :03:03.hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for
:03:04. > :03:07.an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this.
:03:08. > :03:12.The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way
:03:13. > :03:15.that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people
:03:16. > :03:19.who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell
:03:20. > :03:23.their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea.
:03:24. > :03:28.Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in
:03:29. > :03:34.2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast
:03:35. > :03:37.Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people
:03:38. > :03:40.don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either
:03:41. > :03:45.because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust
:03:46. > :03:49.the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in
:03:50. > :03:54.the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a
:03:55. > :03:57.matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the
:03:58. > :04:03.police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim
:04:04. > :04:03.Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the
:04:04. > :04:06.United States making the allegations lives in the
:04:07. > :04:09.been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister
:04:10. > :04:10.would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem
:04:11. > :04:16.for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem
:04:17. > :04:20.allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to
:04:21. > :04:21.the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime
:04:22. > :04:35.inrequest -- that inquiry took 12 years to report. The problem is the
:04:36. > :04:40.dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations
:04:41. > :04:43.keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it
:04:44. > :04:50.is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is
:04:51. > :04:54.inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is
:04:55. > :04:55.inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after
:04:56. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by
:05:03. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require
:05:03. > :05:05.resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the
:05:06. > :05:12.case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country
:05:13. > :05:14.we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do I
:05:15. > :05:18.in what a public inquiry can do. I wonder whether there is another
:05:19. > :05:22.example of a country that goes through this stale ritual every few
:05:23. > :05:25.years of a scandal emerging, the opposition calling for an inquiry,
:05:26. > :05:29.the Government saying no and then holding the line or giving in. I
:05:30. > :05:33.don't know what we think this inquiries can do. It comes back to
:05:34. > :05:36.your point, Helen, you should be careful what you call an inquiry on
:05:37. > :05:42.so it doesn't devalue the concept. On Thursday up to a million public
:05:43. > :05:44.sector workers - including teachers, firemen and council workers -
:05:45. > :05:46.will go on strike. Their unions have differing gripes
:05:47. > :05:48.but the fact they're all striking on the same day is designed to send
:05:49. > :05:51.a strong message to the government. As the economy picks up again
:05:52. > :05:53.they're demanding an end Growth has returned strongly to
:05:54. > :05:59.the UK economy and unemployment is at its lowest
:06:00. > :06:02.level for more than five years. So why is there still talk
:06:03. > :06:05.of austerity The deficit is coming down but much
:06:06. > :06:10.more slowly than the government And accumulated deficits -
:06:11. > :06:17.the national debt - The UK is now in hock to the tune
:06:18. > :06:26.of ?1.3 trillion - and rising. In fact, we're only 40% of the way
:06:27. > :06:29.through George Osborne's planned austerity, with the chancellor now
:06:30. > :06:32.saying he won't manage to balance Unions are now rebelling
:06:33. > :06:38.against tight pay controls. Since 2010, average public sector
:06:39. > :06:42.pay, which goes to about 1 in 5 Over the same period,
:06:43. > :06:49.prices increased by 16% - meaning the average public sector
:06:50. > :06:53.worker saw their pay squeezed Going head-to-head on the public
:06:54. > :07:01.sector strikes and austerity - the general secretary of the TUC
:07:02. > :07:20.Frances O'Grady, and Conservative We have seen it, public sector pay
:07:21. > :07:25.squeezed by 9% under the Coalition Government. Isn't it time to take
:07:26. > :07:31.your foot off the brake a bit? I don't think it is the right time to
:07:32. > :07:35.let go of the public finances at all. We were always clear that this
:07:36. > :07:40.is what's called a structural deficit, it doesn't go away just
:07:41. > :07:45.because the growth is returning and the economy is coming back. We have
:07:46. > :07:51.protected and are protecting the lowest paid public sector workers
:07:52. > :07:56.who weren't part of the pay freeze and now pay going up by 1%. These
:07:57. > :08:01.are difficult decisions. We have had that discussion many times. They are
:08:02. > :08:06.necessary in order to keep that plan on track and as we can see in the
:08:07. > :08:09.wider economy, it is working. People's living standards will have
:08:10. > :08:13.to continue to fall if you are in the public sector? We need to keep
:08:14. > :08:17.public spending under control and pay restraint is one of the main
:08:18. > :08:21.ways of being able... The answer is yes? The answer is this is
:08:22. > :08:25.necessary. The answer is yes, this is necessary. It isn't because we
:08:26. > :08:28.want to. We have to. This strike isn't going to change the
:08:29. > :08:31.Government's mind, is it? It does seem like the Government isn't
:08:32. > :08:35.listening. We have had years... They are listening, they just don't
:08:36. > :08:38.agree. Ordinary people, including those in the public sector, are
:08:39. > :08:43.finding it really tough. What really sticks in the throat is the idea
:08:44. > :08:46.that money can be found to give tax cuts to billionaires, to
:08:47. > :08:54.millionaires and to big corporations. But it can't be found
:08:55. > :08:58.to help 500,000 workers in local government, dinner ladies, school
:08:59. > :09:02.meal workers, lollipop men and women who are earning less than the living
:09:03. > :09:05.wage. What do you say to that? We have protected those who are the
:09:06. > :09:10.least well-paid in the public sector. But this is about a
:09:11. > :09:14.long-term... How can you? Hold on. You have said you have protected
:09:15. > :09:20.them. This involves ordinary people, many watching this programme, they
:09:21. > :09:27.have had a 1% pay rise in some cases since 2010. The average gas bill is
:09:28. > :09:29.up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food costs up 16%, running a car 11% in
:09:30. > :09:35.costs up 16%, running a car 11%, in what way have you protected people
:09:36. > :09:40.from spending they have to make? Firstly, you read out the average
:09:41. > :09:43.increases in public sector pay. That has had the biggest impact at the
:09:44. > :09:49.top end and those at the bottom end have been best protected, as best we
:09:50. > :09:52.could. Of course, we have also taken two million people out of income tax
:09:53. > :09:56.and increased the income tax threshold which has a big positive
:09:57. > :10:01.impact. We have frozen and then cut fuel duty, which would have been 20
:10:02. > :10:05.pence higher. I wanted to take on this point about priorities. We have
:10:06. > :10:10.got to make sure that we get the economy going at the same time and
:10:11. > :10:15.we raised more money from those at the top than we did before 2010,
:10:16. > :10:19.partly because we have encouraged them to invest. And this is a really
:10:20. > :10:25.important balance of making sure we get the books back in order, we have
:10:26. > :10:29.stability for family finances and we get the economy going. Why not
:10:30. > :10:33.spread the living wage? We know you could pay for that pay increase
:10:34. > :10:37.itself if you spread the living wage through the private sector and
:10:38. > :10:43.guarantee... The living wage being above the minimum wage? Absolutely.
:10:44. > :10:51.?7.65 in the rest of the country, ?8.80 in London. What is the answer?
:10:52. > :10:59.I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But not for public sector workers. Being
:11:00. > :11:02.able to pay low-paid workers as much as possible within the constraints
:11:03. > :11:05.of the public finances is something I have pushed very hard. The
:11:06. > :11:10.evidence we can increase the minimum wage has to be balanced which the
:11:11. > :11:18.Low Pay Commission do with the impact on the number of jobs... Even
:11:19. > :11:23.after a pay freeze for quite a while among public sector workers, they
:11:24. > :11:31.are still paid 15% on average more than those in the private sector?
:11:32. > :11:35.That is not true. It is, according to the ONS figures. I read that
:11:36. > :13:21.report this morning. If you look at the whole package, what they
:13:22. > :13:24.report this morning. If you look at credibility that they support the
:13:25. > :13:28.squeeze on public sector pay. I look forward to them, they ought to come
:13:29. > :13:31.out and say very clearly that these strikes are wrong and they are
:13:32. > :13:37.against the strikes and stop taking union money. It is a democratic
:13:38. > :13:40.right. Hold on. They are - they think the policy of pay restraint is
:13:41. > :13:49.necessary. Alright. On this point about democracy... Ask yourself why
:13:50. > :13:56.so many ordinary decent public service workers are so fed up. They
:13:57. > :14:06.have seen so many billions of pounds wasted through outsourcing to
:14:07. > :14:13.organisations like G4 S. In Unite and UNISON the turnout in this vote
:14:14. > :14:17.was under 20%. Alright. OK. One final question... Hold on. You said
:14:18. > :14:21.millions and millions voted on this... I want to ask you this
:14:22. > :14:24.question. Is the story in the Mail on Sunday today that Mr Cameron's
:14:25. > :14:29.on Sunday today that Mr Cameron s planning a big crackdown on the
:14:30. > :14:34.unions over balloting, is that true? Well, strikes like this... I know
:14:35. > :14:38.the cases, is it true you are going to dhang the law? Strikes like this
:14:39. > :14:43.make that argument stronger. The Conservative Party is in Government
:14:44. > :14:44.on the basis of 23% of the electorate... We have run out of
:14:45. > :14:49.time. Thank you very much. "Should Scotland be
:14:50. > :14:51.an independent country?" That's the question the people of
:14:52. > :14:53.Scotland will answer in a referendum If the polls are to be believed
:14:54. > :14:57.the voters will answer "no". But in 2011 - ten weeks before
:14:58. > :14:59.the Holyrood elections - the polls told us that Labour was going to win
:15:00. > :15:01.and look what happened there - a Alistair Darling is leading
:15:02. > :15:24.the campaign against independnence. is one that puts the matter of
:15:25. > :15:30.independence to bed for a generation. In numerical terms, what
:15:31. > :15:35.would that be? We need a decisive result in September, I think we will
:15:36. > :15:39.get that provided we get our arguments across in the next couple
:15:40. > :15:45.of months. What would it be in figures? I am not going to put a
:15:46. > :15:51.number on it. People will look at it and say, OK, you have had two and a
:15:52. > :15:57.half years of debate and Scotland has now decided. The polls may be
:15:58. > :16:00.encouraging at the moment but I am not complacent, there is still a
:16:01. > :16:06.long way to go. Speculating... If you don't want to answer that, that
:16:07. > :16:12.is fair enough. Your side claims that a vote for independence is a
:16:13. > :16:17.vote for massive uncertainty but if it is a no vote there is lots of
:16:18. > :16:21.uncertainty too. All of the Westminster parties are promising
:16:22. > :16:28.devolution but there is no timetable, no certainty. Yes, there
:16:29. > :16:34.is. For the first time I can remember, all three parties are more
:16:35. > :16:40.or less on the same page in terms of additional powers, we already have
:16:41. > :16:44.powers in terms of policing and transport, now more powers are
:16:45. > :16:52.planned in relation to tax and welfare. But you are all saying
:16:53. > :16:56.different things. Between 2009 and 2012, the three parties have
:16:57. > :17:01.slightly different proposals but they came together and there was an
:17:02. > :17:08.agreed series of reforms in relation to tax which are now on the statute
:17:09. > :17:13.book. If you go back to the devolutionary settlement in 199 ,
:17:14. > :17:17.people unified around a single proposition so there is history here
:17:18. > :17:21.and these three parties have delivered and they will deliver in
:17:22. > :17:27.the event of people saying we will stay part of the UK. If Scotland
:17:28. > :17:31.vote no to independence, when will Scotland get these extra powers? I
:17:32. > :17:36.would imagine that in the general election all three parties will have
:17:37. > :17:40.something in their manifesto and you would expect to see legislation in
:17:41. > :17:45.the session of Parliament that follows that. Imagining is not
:17:46. > :17:50.certainty. Because the three parties have said this is what they will do,
:17:51. > :17:56.and it is important having said that they stick to it. If you look in the
:17:57. > :18:02.past when the Nationalists said the same thing, when they cast doubt
:18:03. > :18:07.over what would happen in 2012, we delivered. The only party that
:18:08. > :18:10.walked out of both of these discussions were the Nationalists
:18:11. > :18:15.because they are not interested in more powers, they want a complete
:18:16. > :18:20.break. You cannot say that if Edinburgh gets more devolution that
:18:21. > :18:27.wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster, can you? Nobody has any
:18:28. > :18:33.plans to reduce the number of MPs. If you step back from this moment,
:18:34. > :18:36.what people have been asked to do in September is to vote on the future
:18:37. > :18:42.of their country, Scotland, and whether we should be part of the UK.
:18:43. > :18:46.When I say part of the UK, full members of the UK with
:18:47. > :18:50.representation in the House of Commons and the institutions that
:18:51. > :18:57.affect our lives. This is a critically important vote. We want
:18:58. > :19:00.to see more decentralisation of power to Scotland, and to local
:19:01. > :19:05.authorities within Scotland, but we don't want a complete break with the
:19:06. > :19:10.uncertainties, the risks and the downright disadvantages that would
:19:11. > :19:20.throw Scotland's away if we were to make that break. The economic
:19:21. > :19:38.arguments are dominating people s thinking, the polls show, that is
:19:39. > :19:42.what is dominating at the moment. You cannot guarantee continued
:19:43. > :19:49.membership of the European Union given all the talk now about an
:19:50. > :19:53.in-out UK referendum. Firstly I don't think anyone has ever argued
:19:54. > :19:57.Scotland wouldn't get back in. The big question is the terms and
:19:58. > :20:01.conditions we would have to meet and we are applying to get into
:20:02. > :20:08.something that is established, it wouldn't be a negotiation. What we
:20:09. > :20:13.have said is there is no way Europe would let Scotland keep the rebate
:20:14. > :20:20.which Scotland has, there would be big questions over whether we have
:20:21. > :20:24.to join the euro, and other terms and conditions. The European Union
:20:25. > :20:30.does not act with any great speed, on average it takes eight and a half
:20:31. > :20:33.years to get into Europe. I don t want that uncertainty or the
:20:34. > :20:40.disadvantages that would come Scotland's away that come with
:20:41. > :20:47.losing clout in the European Union. The second point you asked me about
:20:48. > :20:51.is in relation to the UK's membership of the European Union,
:20:52. > :21:00.and if you look at polls, the majority of people still want to
:21:01. > :21:06.stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of people on my side didn't make the
:21:07. > :21:12.argument against independence for a long time, we have been doing that
:21:13. > :21:17.over the last two and a half years and we are making progress and that
:21:18. > :21:20.is why I can say I think we will win provided we continue to get our
:21:21. > :21:25.arguments across. Similarly with the European Union, the case needs to be
:21:26. > :21:32.made because it is a powerful case. Isn't it true that the Nationalists
:21:33. > :21:41.win either way? They win if it is a yes vote, and they win if it is a no
:21:42. > :21:47.vote. They wanted devolution max so they win either way. There is a
:21:48. > :21:51.world of difference between devolution and further devolution
:21:52. > :21:57.where you remain part of the UK. There is a world of difference
:21:58. > :22:02.between that and making a break, where Scotland becomes a foreign
:22:03. > :22:07.country to the rest of the UK. You lose that security and those
:22:08. > :22:16.opportunities. You lose the same currency, the opportunity with
:22:17. > :22:20.pensions and so on. They are entitled to argue this case with
:22:21. > :22:26.passion, they want a break, but the two things are worlds apart. Gordon
:22:27. > :22:31.Brown said that the no campaign was too negative, have you adjusted to
:22:32. > :22:35.take that criticism into account? Ever since I launched this campaign
:22:36. > :22:41.over two years ago I said we would make a strong powerful case for
:22:42. > :22:48.remaining part of the UK. Look at our research, where we have had
:22:49. > :22:52.warnings from people to say that if we do well with research in Scotland
:22:53. > :22:58.we get more than our population share of the grand and we gain from
:22:59. > :23:02.that. There is a positive case but equally nobody will stop me from
:23:03. > :23:06.saying to the Nationalists, look at the assertions you make which are
:23:07. > :23:11.collapsing like skittles at the moment. Their assertions don't stand
:23:12. > :23:16.up. They assert that somehow milk and honey will be flowing. It is
:23:17. > :23:22.perfectly healthy within a referendum campaign to say that what
:23:23. > :23:38.you are saying simply isn't true. You have been negative, we all know
:23:39. > :23:48.about the so-called Cyber Nats book you compared Alex Salmond to the
:23:49. > :23:53.leader of North Korea. On! The context was that Alex Salmond was
:23:54. > :23:58.being asked why it was that UKIP had additional seat and he appeared to
:23:59. > :24:05.blame television being been doing from another country, from BBC South
:24:06. > :24:13.of the border. If you cannot have humour in a debate, heaven help us.
:24:14. > :24:18.I think it is important in this debate that people from outside
:24:19. > :24:23.politics should be allowed to have their say whatever side they are on
:24:24. > :24:28.because that will make for a far better, healthier debate. Nobody
:24:29. > :24:32.should be put in a state of fear and alarm by worrying about what will
:24:33. > :24:38.happen if they stand up. Despite the nastiness, more and more people are
:24:39. > :24:46.making a stand. We have run out of time. Thank you.
:24:47. > :24:53.I will be talking to the SNP's hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon,
:24:54. > :24:57.next week on Sunday Politics. Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will
:24:58. > :25:03.be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow. Disastrous results in the European
:25:04. > :25:08.elections, it is fair to say the Lib Dems are down in the doldrums. In a
:25:09. > :25:17.moment I will be speaking to Nick Clegg, but first Emily has been
:25:18. > :25:32.asking what Lib Dems would say to the Prime -- Deputy Prime Minister
:25:33. > :25:36.on Call Clegg. Our phone in this week is the challenges facing the
:25:37. > :25:40.Liberal Democrats. They are rock bottom in the polls and have dire
:25:41. > :25:45.results in the local and European elections so what can the party do
:25:46. > :25:50.to turn things around? Get in touch, we are going straight to line
:25:51. > :25:56.one and Gareth. How much is a problem of that loss of local
:25:57. > :26:00.support? It is a massive problem because those are the building
:26:01. > :26:06.blocks of our success. The councillors who gets the case work
:26:07. > :26:12.done are also the people who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock
:26:13. > :26:17.on doors. Interesting, and it is not just local support the party has
:26:18. > :26:22.lost, is it? In the next general election there are some big-name
:26:23. > :26:31.Liberal Democrat MPs standing down like Malcolm Bruce and Ming
:26:32. > :26:37.Campbell, how much of a problem will that be? That is a real challenge
:26:38. > :26:42.and we have some of our brightest and best reaching an age of maturity
:26:43. > :26:46.at the same moment so that is quite an additional test in what will be a
:26:47. > :26:48.difficult election anyway. So how does the party need to position
:26:49. > :26:51.itself to win back support? Let s does the party need to position
:26:52. > :26:58.itself to win back support? Let's go to Chris online free, has the party
:26:59. > :27:06.got its strategy right? There is always a danger of appearing to be a
:27:07. > :27:10.party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a
:27:11. > :27:12.of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the
:27:13. > :27:17.next election because if we don't next election because if we don t
:27:18. > :27:22.people will vote for the Tories. Nick, what do you think of the
:27:23. > :27:28.party's message at the moment? I have had a look at early draft of
:27:29. > :27:33.our manifesto and there is some good stuff in there but the authors are
:27:34. > :27:38.probably too interested in what may think we have achieved in the last
:27:39. > :28:08.five years and not really focusing on what the voters will want to be
:28:09. > :28:11.hearing about the next five years. Perhaps they should get out more and
:28:12. > :28:14.test some of these messages on the doorstep. So you want to see the top
:28:15. > :28:19.ranks of the party on the doorstep. Gareth online one also wants to make
:28:20. > :28:24.a point about the manifesto. There is clearly a problem somewhere near
:28:25. > :28:28.the top and there are some people who seem to be obsessed with power
:28:29. > :28:30.for power's sake, and happy with a timid offer but the Liberal
:28:31. > :28:32.Democrats want to change things. timid offer but the Liberal
:28:33. > :28:37.Democrats want to change things We are running out of time so let's try
:28:38. > :28:42.to squeeze one more call in. What are your thoughts on the long-term
:28:43. > :28:47.future of the party? I think serious long-term danger is that the party
:28:48. > :28:51.could be relegated to the fringes of the UK and no longer being a
:28:52. > :28:55.national party. We have gone back decades if that happens because for
:28:56. > :28:59.many years we have been represented in every part of the country at some
:29:00. > :29:01.level and we have got to rescue ourselves from that. Some
:29:02. > :29:06.interesting views but we are going to have to wait until the general
:29:07. > :29:10.election next year to find out how well the Lib Dems face up to these
:29:11. > :29:13.challenges. Thanks for listening, we are going to finish with an old
:29:14. > :29:16.classic now. # I'm sorry, I'm sorry... #.
:29:17. > :29:20.Nick Clegg, welcome to the programme. I want to come onto your
:29:21. > :29:24.situation in a minute but as you will have seen in the papers, there
:29:25. > :29:26.is mounting concern over and historic Westminster paedophile
:29:27. > :29:29.ring, and files relating to it mysteriously disappearing. Why are
:29:30. > :29:34.you against a full public enquiry into this? I wouldn't rule anything
:29:35. > :29:41.out. I think we should do anything it takes to uncover this and achieve
:29:42. > :30:00.justice. delivered, even all these many years
:30:01. > :30:03.later. How do you do it? There is an inquiry in the Home Office about
:30:04. > :30:07.what's happened to these documents, serious questions need to be asked
:30:08. > :30:10.about what happened in the Home Office and those questions need to
:30:11. > :30:15.be answered. There are inquiries in the BBC, in the NHS and most
:30:16. > :30:18.importantly of all the police are looking into the places where this
:30:19. > :30:25.abuse was alleged to have taken place. All I would say is, let's
:30:26. > :30:31.make sure that justice is delivered, truth is uncovered and I think that
:30:32. > :30:35.the way to do that, as we have seen, is by allowing the police to get on
:30:36. > :30:39.with their work. You say that, but there are only seven police involved
:30:40. > :30:43.in this inquiry. There are 195 involved in the hacking
:30:44. > :30:48.investigations. We can both agree that child abuse is more important
:30:49. > :30:51.and serious than hacking. The Home Office, there are reports that Home
:30:52. > :30:55.Office officials may have been mentioned in the dossier, people
:30:56. > :30:59.don't trust people to investigate themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept
:31:00. > :31:01.that we need to make sure that - themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept
:31:02. > :31:03.that we need to make sure that and that we need to make sure that - and
:31:04. > :31:05.the police need to make sure that the police investigations are
:31:06. > :31:09.thorough, well resourced. I can t thorough, well resourced. I can't
:31:10. > :31:13.think of anything more horrendous, I can't, than powerful people
:31:14. > :31:15.organising themselves and worse still, this is what is alleged,
:31:16. > :31:25.covering up for still, this is what is alleged,
:31:26. > :31:30.can get people in the dock, the only way you can get people charged, is
:31:31. > :31:35.by allowing the prosecuting authorities and the police to do
:31:36. > :31:39.their job. I have an open mind about what other inquiries take place. A
:31:40. > :31:43.number of other inquiries are taking place. I assume any additional
:31:44. > :31:46.inquiries wouldn't be able to second guess or look into the matters which
:31:47. > :31:50.the police are looking into already. All I would say is that people who
:31:51. > :31:52.have information, who want to provide information which they think
:31:53. > :31:56.is relevant to this, please get in touch with the police. Alright.
:31:57. > :33:28.Let's come on to our own inquiry into the state of
:33:29. > :33:30.Let's come on to our own inquiry finances, but doing so much more
:33:31. > :33:34.fairly than would have been the case, if the Conservatives had been
:33:35. > :33:38.in Government on their own, they wouldn't have delivered these tax
:33:39. > :33:43.cuts. They wouldn't have delivered the triple lock guarantee for
:33:44. > :33:49.pensions or the pupil premium. OK. Why are you 8% in the polls? Well,
:33:50. > :34:01.because I think where we get our message across - and I am here in my
:34:02. > :34:06.own constituency - this is a constituency where I am a
:34:07. > :34:09.campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot of the information and say we have
:34:10. > :34:14.done a decent thing by going into Government and we have delivered big
:34:15. > :34:18.changes, big reforms which you can touch and see in your school, in
:34:19. > :34:24.your pensions, in your taxes and then people do support us and, in
:34:25. > :34:26.our areas of strength, we were winning against both the
:34:27. > :34:29.Conservative and Labour parties. It Conservative and Labour parties It
:34:30. > :34:33.is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left
:34:34. > :34:37.and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in
:34:38. > :34:41.Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right -
:34:42. > :34:46.having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in
:34:47. > :34:53.our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more
:34:54. > :35:00.support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib
:35:01. > :35:04.Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a
:35:05. > :35:11.National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a
:35:12. > :35:14.National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we
:35:15. > :35:18.have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much
:35:19. > :35:22.time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing
:35:23. > :35:27.that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in
:35:28. > :35:30.challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we
:35:31. > :35:33.have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more
:35:34. > :35:38.Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering
:35:39. > :35:42.before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal
:35:43. > :35:46.reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been
:35:47. > :35:50.setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure
:35:51. > :35:54.teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in
:35:55. > :36:00.school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company
:36:01. > :36:03.from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with
:36:04. > :36:08.education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values
:36:09. > :36:14.that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out
:36:15. > :36:22.and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that
:36:23. > :36:26.you "are toxic on the doorstep". Look, as everybody knows, being the
:36:27. > :36:30.leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into
:36:31. > :36:34.Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because
:36:35. > :36:39.you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of
:36:40. > :36:42.that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken
:36:43. > :36:46.economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that
:36:47. > :36:50.party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say
:36:51. > :36:51.that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a
:36:52. > :36:55.good reason for that. They didn't good reason for that. They didn t
:36:56. > :36:59.win the election. The left say that somehow we have lost our soul when
:37:00. > :37:04.we haven't. That happens day in, day out. Of course that will have some
:37:05. > :37:11.effect. My answer to that is not to buckle to those criticisms, those
:37:12. > :37:18.misplaced Chris -- criticisms from left and right, but to stand up
:37:19. > :37:23.proudly. Is it your intention to fight the next election against an
:37:24. > :37:29.in-out referendum on Europe? Yes. Unless there is major treaty change?
:37:30. > :37:33.Our position hasn't waivered, it won't waiver, we are not going to
:37:34. > :37:37.flip-flop on the issue of the referendum like the Conservatives
:37:38. > :37:40.did. We want an in-out referendum. With ve legislated for the trigger
:37:41. > :37:42.when that will happen, when in u powers are transferred to the
:37:43. > :37:45.European Union. That is what we have said for years. We legislated for
:37:46. > :37:51.that... So no change? No change. that... So no change? No change
:37:52. > :37:54.Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep
:37:55. > :38:02.Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of
:38:03. > :38:07.what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to
:38:08. > :38:11.serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has
:38:12. > :38:15.done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years
:38:16. > :38:18.to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not
:38:19. > :38:24.just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some
:38:25. > :38:28.heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger
:38:29. > :38:33.of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in
:38:34. > :38:44.Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of
:38:45. > :38:49.that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near
:38:50. > :38:53.Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them
:38:54. > :38:58.later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm
:38:59. > :39:01.sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you.
:39:02. > :39:04.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:39:05. > :39:08.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:39:09. > :39:10.for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes,
:39:11. > :39:30.the Week watching the Sunday Politics East
:39:31. > :39:35.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Today, we are on the route of the Tour de
:39:36. > :39:39.France. Doesn't people lined the streets of Yorkshire for thd
:39:40. > :39:40.France. Doesn't people lined the streets of Yorkshire for the second
:39:41. > :39:43.streets of Yorkshire for thd second stage of the race. This is widely
:39:44. > :39:47.acknowledged to be the biggdst acknowledged to be the biggest
:39:48. > :39:53.annual sporting events on the planet. We will be looking back at
:39:54. > :39:57.day one's Grand Depart and getting the inside story on how Yorkshire
:39:58. > :40:07.beat off competition across Europe to land Le Tour.
:40:08. > :40:09.We are alive today from Wrekenton in West Yorkshire overlooking the right
:40:10. > :40:17.on Bali, one of many picturesque on Bali, one of many picturesque
:40:18. > :40:22.locations to play host to this year's Tour. They have been lining
:40:23. > :40:28.the streets from the wee small hours. They have got just over two
:40:29. > :40:34.hours to wait before the pellet on, the main group operators, htrtle
:40:35. > :40:36.through on their way to Sheffield. We are joined by BBN Hamilton and
:40:37. > :40:43.Craig Whittaker. The Prime Linister Craig Whittaker. The Prime Minister
:40:44. > :40:50.said he wouldn't wear lycra, Nick Clegg said he wouldn't wear lycra,
:40:51. > :40:56.you have no such shame. It is very appropriate.
:40:57. > :41:02.You are the local MP, Craig, how would you sum up the atmosphere
:41:03. > :41:06.This is the jewel in the crown of Yorkshire and the beating hdart The
:41:07. > :41:08.sun has come out and people are here and what a great day for the Tour
:41:09. > :41:08.sun has come out and people are here and what a great day for thd Tour de
:41:09. > :41:14.France. Everybody is incredibly France. Everybody is incredhbly
:41:15. > :41:15.excited. The Tour started yesterday in Leeds
:41:16. > :41:17.The Tour started yesterday hn Leeds and went through your constituency.
:41:18. > :41:23.and went through your consthtuency. What was the mood like?
:41:24. > :41:24.Terrific. I've never seen Ldeds so vibrant. It was like a carnival
:41:25. > :41:33.vibrant. It was like a carnhval atmosphere. It was terrific.
:41:34. > :41:36.Watching the start of the Grand Depart was just amazing.
:41:37. > :41:37.The only dampener was that hnjury to The only dampener was that injury to
:41:38. > :41:41.Mark Cavendish but overall ht was The only dampener was that hnjury to
:41:42. > :41:43.Mark Cavendish but overall ht was a day of celebration with more than
:41:44. > :41:43.Mark Cavendish but overall it was a day of celebration with mord than 1
:41:44. > :41:49.day of celebration with more than 1 million people lining the streets of
:41:50. > :41:50.Yorkshire. Many of Westminster's big hitters were watching the race and
:41:51. > :41:59.hitters were watching the r`ce and we caught up with some of them.
:42:00. > :42:06.They came and their thousands, hundreds of thousands, jostling
:42:07. > :42:10.shoulder to shoulder on the streets of Leeds before the start. Bands,
:42:11. > :42:15.tourists and politicians. I think this is a brilliant day and
:42:16. > :42:17.you can see the excitement on the streets, how excited people are, and
:42:18. > :42:19.streets, how excited people are and we are looking forward to seeing the
:42:20. > :42:23.we are looking forward to sdeing the start of the race.
:42:24. > :42:25.The Tour wasn't far from Nick Clegg's mind either. This time
:42:26. > :42:25.The Tour wasn't far from Nick Clegg's mind either. This thme at
:42:26. > :42:27.The Tour wasn't far from Nick Clegg's mind either. This time at a
:42:28. > :42:28.business conference trying to boost inward investment to Yorkshhre on
:42:29. > :42:32.inward investment to Yorkshire on Friday.
:42:33. > :42:33.Leeds has people with no higher and ideas to help your businessds
:42:34. > :42:35.Leeds has people with no higher and ideas to help your businesses get
:42:36. > :42:40.ahead. I was talking to a number of
:42:41. > :42:42.companies who are thinking of investing more money in the
:42:43. > :42:45.Yorkshire area and using thd Yorkshire area and using the
:42:46. > :42:48.enthusiasm of the Tour de France to see, go on, take the next step, but
:42:49. > :42:50.the money in the air and crdate see, go on, take the next step, but
:42:51. > :42:54.the money in the air and create the jobs.
:42:55. > :43:01.David Cameron turned up. I think legacy will come in parts.
:43:02. > :43:07.There is a straight economic latency of ?20 million inward investment.
:43:08. > :43:10.There will be sporting legacy across people will watch this and take up
:43:11. > :43:14.cycling and that is important. The smells want just be on
:43:15. > :43:22.spectators faces as the Tour lashes along. The owner of 12 bedroomed
:43:23. > :43:26.terraced house here put it tp for terraced house here put it up for
:43:27. > :43:29.rental over the two days. The rent was ?10,000.
:43:30. > :43:43.There is more. The challenge now is to enstre that
:43:44. > :43:57.the cheers and `` that when the cheers they'd get leaves a lasting
:43:58. > :44:01.legacy. `` when the cheers fade. ?10,000 to rent your house out for
:44:02. > :44:07.the weekend. I think we would all stay in a tent at we were offered
:44:08. > :44:15.that money. Where are you from? New Zealand. The atmosphere is
:44:16. > :44:17.amazing. Especially enjoying the world's largest paint.
:44:18. > :44:21.I think you should leave th`t until I think you should leave th`t until
:44:22. > :44:28.later. It will be followed by the world's largest hangover.
:44:29. > :44:33.I've never seen anything like that. It was incredible.
:44:34. > :44:36.Let me chance to this young man Argue on antibiotics for that nasty
:44:37. > :44:40.Argue on antibiotics for th`t nasty rash?
:44:41. > :44:44.I am not but I will get that seem to later.
:44:45. > :44:55.Where are you from? I live in Beijing at the moment.
:44:56. > :44:59.As China getting excited about the Tour?
:45:00. > :45:06.It has lots of bicycles. That is a song.
:45:07. > :45:11.It is but I'm not singing it. This is the biggest cycling event in
:45:12. > :45:19.the world. Why are we surprhsed at the world. Why are we surprhsed at
:45:20. > :45:23.the turn out? It is huge. Stch a great sport and we are very good at
:45:24. > :45:25.it. Right up to the event, there
:45:26. > :45:25.it. Right up to the event, therd have
:45:26. > :45:27.Right up to the event, there have been people have been put ott
:45:28. > :45:28.Right up to the event, therd have been people have been put out by
:45:29. > :45:28.Right up to the event, there have been people have been put ott by all
:45:29. > :45:29.been people have been put out by all the road closures and the
:45:30. > :45:31.shenanigans that go with that. the road closures and the
:45:32. > :45:34.shenanigans that go with th`t. Has shenanigans that go with th`t. Has
:45:35. > :45:41.it been worth the inconvenience? Absolutely. It is like London 2 12.
:45:42. > :45:46.All the doom and gloom before hand just changed overnight. That is what
:45:47. > :45:49.we have seen. It is worth every penny. At the world's population
:45:50. > :45:53.we have seen. It is worth every penny. At the world's popul`tion are
:45:54. > :46:00.going to be watching this area. What advertising.
:46:01. > :46:05.Let me bring in the longest serving councillor in the area. He is also a
:46:06. > :46:13.keen cyclist. You cycle all over the world, don't you?
:46:14. > :46:17.Yes, South America, Vietnam, China, Central America last year and
:46:18. > :46:24.Ireland two weeks ago. How do far have you travelled?
:46:25. > :46:25.How do far have you travelldd? About 400 miles last week. A lot.
:46:26. > :46:29.How do far have you travelled? About 400 miles last week. @ lot. I
:46:30. > :46:35.have got a new need. The pain has gone so I can go further.
:46:36. > :46:38.What is the atmosphere like in Sheffield? Some suggest that hadn't
:46:39. > :46:43.embraced the Tour as much as other places.
:46:44. > :46:46.I don't know why they got that from. They are decked out across the city
:46:47. > :46:51.and every lamp post has a ydllow and every lamp post has a yellow
:46:52. > :46:54.ribbon on at. I don't know how many miles that is but the cycling people
:46:55. > :46:59.put them up a few days ago `nd we put them up a few days ago and we
:47:00. > :47:10.had a massive festival. The city centre was all during which people
:47:11. > :47:18.`` bulging. I'm hoping to `` and get there for the claim.
:47:19. > :47:23.It is the steepest and clail in the It is the steepest and claim in the
:47:24. > :47:25.whole route. It is steep and to get round that
:47:26. > :47:28.band is very difficult. I s`w the band is very difficult. I s`w the
:47:29. > :47:40.sky team practice it and they just sky team practice it and thdy just
:47:41. > :47:42.shot up. I couldn't believe it. It has been great to see so many
:47:43. > :47:46.families enjoying it. You rdpresent families enjoying it. You represent
:47:47. > :47:50.one of the poorest constitudncies. one of the poorest constitudncies.
:47:51. > :47:59.Our people embracing the Tour as Our people embracing the Totr as
:48:00. > :48:05.much as anybody else? They are. This isn't about lycra or
:48:06. > :48:09.expensive gear. It is about getting people out of cars and onto bicycles
:48:10. > :48:10.as a future transport system. people out of cars and onto bicycles
:48:11. > :48:15.as a future transport systel. The as a future transport systel. The
:48:16. > :48:16.more we can do that and put pressure on government to create segregated
:48:17. > :48:20.cycling parts and make it safer. on government to create segregated
:48:21. > :48:22.cycling parts and make it s`fer If cycling parts and make it safer. If
:48:23. > :48:29.we can get children on bikes they will continue to cycle in adult
:48:30. > :48:32.hood. People are paying ?10,000 to rent a
:48:33. > :48:36.house out in west Yorkshire. How much would you put on the v`lue to
:48:37. > :48:40.the economy? Massive amounts. The cost to
:48:41. > :48:43.government has been about ?10 government has been about ?00
:48:44. > :48:48.million which is nothing to what every local economy... You can see
:48:49. > :48:52.many thousands of people just supporting this one partner in
:48:53. > :48:55.Yorkshire. It is really good investment and return and amazing
:48:56. > :49:00.investment and return and alazing for the local economies.
:49:01. > :49:07.I read in one of the papers, you get a big football match at Wembley with
:49:08. > :49:12.80,000 people, on the Tour xou get 80,000 people in every town.
:49:13. > :49:14.That is what has been stunning. It has engaged people from all
:49:15. > :49:19.backgrounds and all levels of society. They are really interested
:49:20. > :49:25.in how it goes and whether British riders are going to do well. Lining
:49:26. > :49:31.the route, it is absolutely phenomenal. It is like this in every
:49:32. > :49:40.town, village and city in Yorkshire. What a great thing. Have you been
:49:41. > :49:42.surprised at the depth of interest? I don't think I have. We ard
:49:43. > :49:45.surprised at the depth of interest? I don't think I have. We are very
:49:46. > :49:47.good at getting involved locally with great local spirit. This
:49:48. > :49:47.good at getting involved locally with great local spirit. Thhs week
:49:48. > :49:58.as an MP I have been on various as an MP I have been on various
:49:59. > :50:01.tours and local schools got involved with parents and children gdtting
:50:02. > :50:02.tours and local schools got involved with parents and children getting on
:50:03. > :50:08.with parents and children gdtting on their bikes. It will go on for weeks
:50:09. > :50:16.to come. We are now standing on what the
:50:17. > :50:20.French call the courts to rhp and in.
:50:21. > :50:23.Yorkshire surprised many whdn it Yorkshire surprised many when it
:50:24. > :50:26.landed the Tour de France. Many thought it was an April fools joke
:50:27. > :50:36.when it was first announced and be counted each of several European
:50:37. > :50:44.competitors to get this event `` the county beat off. Let's look at how
:50:45. > :50:51.the county won the Tour. It was the city of Edinburgh that
:50:52. > :50:56.the government had remains for the bed. The votes for independdnce
:50:57. > :51:02.bed. The votes for independence might have had something to do with
:51:03. > :51:13.it. But then came this man, Gary Verity, the chief executive of
:51:14. > :51:16.Welcome to Yorkshire. He beat off competition frol
:51:17. > :51:16.Welcome to Yorkshire. He beat off competition from the
:51:17. > :51:16.Welcome to Yorkshire. He beat off competition frol the man
:51:17. > :51:17.He beat off competition from the man who is now Italy's new primd
:51:18. > :51:24.who is now Italy's new prime ministers.
:51:25. > :51:25.I am eight cycling so I am putting my money where my mouth is, so to
:51:26. > :51:58.speak. well out of joint in Westminster.
:51:59. > :52:04.Gary Verity saw an opportunity for Yorkshire to steal this event from
:52:05. > :52:06.Edinburgh and from Florence and Berlin and face other capit`l cities
:52:07. > :52:09.Berlin and face other capital cities that had been in the running.
:52:10. > :52:12.Yorkshire MPs got behind the that had been in the running.
:52:13. > :52:16.Yorkshire MPs got behind the event and talked to Westminster MPs about
:52:17. > :52:18.the huge opportunity for Yorkshire and went forward and help to get the
:52:19. > :53:42.money in. unconventional routes to Yorkshire
:53:43. > :53:46.Landing Le Tour. Clenching one of the biggest sporting events in the
:53:47. > :53:58.world can only be a source of pride for the people who say they are from
:53:59. > :54:00.Yorkshire. That was the story of her Yorkshire
:54:01. > :54:06.one Le Tour. It is hard to hmagine one Le Tour. It is hard to imagine
:54:07. > :54:11.but people thought it was an April fools joke.
:54:12. > :54:16.I was staggered when I heard Gary Verity and Owen said. It was at the
:54:17. > :54:22.big public event and people where the amused by it. People didn't even
:54:23. > :54:26.know we were bidding for it. The government wanted Scotland to win.
:54:27. > :54:32.The government wasn't too h`ppy The government wasn't too h`ppy
:54:33. > :54:36.Gary is a big character and needs a medal for this.
:54:37. > :54:40.Have you heard this? That it was the government's preferred option for
:54:41. > :54:44.Scotland to host at your with this being the year of independence
:54:45. > :54:46.referendum. I think you have hit the nail on the
:54:47. > :54:55.I think you have hit the nahl on the head but as we know Gary did a
:54:56. > :55:00.magnificent job. It has been a great success story for Yorkshire.
:55:01. > :55:03.With this have happened without Gary Verity or the soon`to`be Surrey Gary
:55:04. > :55:10.Verity I would imagine? I don't know. You need a big
:55:11. > :55:11.personality like that and all the time it came through, his passion
:55:12. > :55:15.time it came through, his p`ssion for Yorkshire. He was backed up by
:55:16. > :55:19.very good people. It was thd very good people. It was the
:55:20. > :55:25.collective effort that did ht but collective effort that did ht but
:55:26. > :55:28.Gary's sheer force of personality and persuasive arguments is
:55:29. > :55:33.obviously what won it. Plus, who needs to advertise Yorkshird.
:55:34. > :55:33.obviously what won it. Plus, who needs to advertise Yorkshire. You
:55:34. > :55:37.needs to advertise Yorkshird. You can see it.
:55:38. > :55:43.One of the most overused words in the sporting Lexington is legacy. ``
:55:44. > :55:53.the sporting Lexington is ldgacy. `` lexicon. What will be the legacy?
:55:54. > :55:55.We saw a huge uptake of cycling at the London 2012. I've seen a huge
:55:56. > :56:03.the London 2012. I've seen ` huge uptake of people on bikes and that
:56:04. > :56:11.will continue. There is talk about having an annual event in Yorkshire
:56:12. > :56:17.and long may it rain. This is the first of a long series
:56:18. > :56:22.of sporting events for your city? We set up the cycle Forum in
:56:23. > :56:29.Sheffield which was most arrived. People said it would be too hilly to
:56:30. > :56:34.cycle in Yorkshire. But that has doubled people commuting to work on
:56:35. > :56:43.bikes. 5000 kids learning to cycle in schools. This is a culmination of
:56:44. > :56:47.that. It is the way to improve the health of our nation, the
:56:48. > :56:50.environment and get people from a to B. This is the answer and it will
:56:51. > :56:56.require more capital investment but require more capital investlent but
:56:57. > :57:01.we are getting there. We have become more cycling friendly
:57:02. > :57:06.as a nation but will be become more cycling friendly as a result of the
:57:07. > :57:10.Tour? I think so because this will get
:57:11. > :57:16.more people out active and on their bicycles. As well as the
:57:17. > :57:18.environmental effects they have outlined, the public health effect
:57:19. > :57:22.is huge. We shouldn't underdstimate is huge. We shouldn't underestimate
:57:23. > :57:28.the savings to the NHS and the environment if people carry on. What
:57:29. > :57:29.we really need is segregated cycleways as much as possible. If
:57:30. > :57:36.you can separate people from traffic you can separate people frol traffic
:57:37. > :57:40.they will be much more likely to go out on a bike.
:57:41. > :57:43.I would not fancy going out into Leeds city centre with the traffic.
:57:44. > :57:47.You just need a care to separate Leeds city centre with the traffic.
:57:48. > :57:51.You just need a care to separate the traffic from the cyclists and
:57:52. > :57:52.cyclist will see much more safe. They do that in Holland. Yot can
:57:53. > :57:55.They do that in Holland. You can still do it despite the Heldn is of
:57:56. > :57:59.still do it despite the Helen is of the country. The safer it is, the
:58:00. > :58:09.more likely you will get children more likely you will get chhldren
:58:10. > :58:16.and adults out cycling. We have a lot of segregated cycle
:58:17. > :58:18.parks already. What we need is this government to continue drivhng
:58:19. > :58:23.forward to make sure that h`ppens. More and more people are using it
:58:24. > :58:34.and coming from out of town from the city is likely to Manchester to
:58:35. > :58:39.cycle on our wonderful countryside. Sheffield has become a more hostile
:58:40. > :58:40.place for motorists. Would that mean cyclists safer?
:58:41. > :58:46.I wouldn't say that. Most cyclists I wouldn't say that. Most cxclists
:58:47. > :58:47.are motorists as well so they are motorists as well so thdy
:58:48. > :58:49.understand the issues. There are understand the issues. Therd are
:58:50. > :58:53.certain areas where they come certain areas where they cole
:58:54. > :58:55.together and we have to be careful and planet but in the long term we
:58:56. > :59:03.must have separate lanes. Wd have must have separate lanes. Wd have
:59:04. > :59:14.got the routes along the canal tool bar and all these are coming to
:59:15. > :59:20.fruition. It takes time. Words the Tour de France happen
:59:21. > :59:30.anywhere else but France? It is such an anarchic country.
:59:31. > :59:37.The Olympics in 2012 show that we can do it. If we set our minds to
:59:38. > :59:38.something we can do it. The organisation has been absolttely
:59:39. > :59:41.organisation has been absolutely brilliant. Everybody knows what they
:59:42. > :59:45.are doing and it has been very, very good.
:59:46. > :59:46.It is all very well saying get kids out on the bikes but we live
:59:47. > :59:50.It is all very well saying get kids out on the bikes but we livd in
:59:51. > :59:56.Yorkshire and we live in tiles when children are wrapped in cotton wool.
:59:57. > :00:02.I've encouraged to go out on their bikes and go on a long ride?
:00:03. > :00:07.Very much so. But they must wear their helmets and beam or order
:00:08. > :00:20.where than we ever aware th`t smack road I wear `` Road aware. We must
:00:21. > :00:24.push the benefits. I agree. Children are the answer and
:00:25. > :00:29.because of the problem of obesity we must get them young. That's why we
:00:30. > :00:32.are speaking to eight and nine`year`old kids and tellhng
:00:33. > :00:34.are speaking to eight and nine`year`old kids and telling them
:00:35. > :00:40.how to write properly. It is not a cheap hobby. Bikes are
:00:41. > :00:44.expensive things. The proper dear as well.
:00:45. > :00:51.You don't have to have deal like this and an expensive bike. Bikes
:00:52. > :01:00.start at 50 quid. You don't need to spend a fortune. This is a mass
:01:01. > :01:04.sport and hobby and it is open to anyone no matter their background
:01:05. > :01:07.and income. I would encourage anyone to get a a sick bike and as they
:01:08. > :01:12.become more enthusiastic they can become more enthusiastic thdy can
:01:13. > :01:16.perhaps upgrade. What would be the long`term benefits
:01:17. > :01:18.here. No question, in the lead up to this,
:01:19. > :01:22.we will see more and more families we will see more and more f`milies
:01:23. > :01:27.getting out on the bikes and enjoying the health benefits.
:01:28. > :01:31.Definitely. The growing participation. Not just kids. I am
:01:32. > :01:35.76 and have colleagues who `re aware 76 and have colleagues who `re aware
:01:36. > :01:40.of the growing importance to help and the environment.
:01:41. > :01:45.More people on bikes, better public health and better environment.
:01:46. > :01:50.Nearly time for us to make our Grand Depart. There will be a special
:01:51. > :01:55.programme for people in west and south Yorkshire tonight with a recap
:01:56. > :01:58.of the days events. We will leave you with a roundup of the two in
:01:59. > :02:12.Yorkshire. `` the Tour. research indicates that most of the
:02:13. > :02:16.progress in London was being made before that started. I wish we had
:02:17. > :02:20.longer for that. It is all over to you.
:02:21. > :02:22.What will Thursday's mass public sector strike achieve?
:02:23. > :02:25.Has David Cameron's anti-Juncker attacks clawed back support
:02:26. > :02:29.And is Alan Johnson really thinking about challenging Ed Miliband
:02:30. > :02:49.We will start with the strikes, Matt Hancock was hardline in the
:02:50. > :02:54.head-to-head that he did with the TUC. I guess that the Tory internal
:02:55. > :02:58.polling and focus groups must be telling them that there are votes in
:02:59. > :03:06.taking a tough line? There is that and there is the fact that they are
:03:07. > :03:12.now much more confident on any economic policy two or three years
:03:13. > :03:16.ago. They shied away from it because the economy was shrinking, there was
:03:17. > :03:20.still a danger that public sector job losses would lead to higher
:03:21. > :03:25.unemployment overall. Now, the economy is growing, they have a good
:03:26. > :03:29.story to sell about employment so they are much more bolshy and brazen
:03:30. > :03:35.than they were two or three years ago. They know that it always causes
:03:36. > :03:40.problems for Labour. Labour is naturally sympathetic to the public
:03:41. > :03:45.sector workers, pay being squeezed, they are striking to make an issue
:03:46. > :03:50.of it. And yet they can't quite come out and give the unions 100% Labour
:03:51. > :03:54.support? Exactly. You saw Tristram Hunt on the Marr Show this morning
:03:55. > :03:57.squirming to support the idea of strikes, but not this particular
:03:58. > :04:00.strike. It was always the question that gets asked to Labour - who
:04:01. > :04:04.funds you? That is a real problem. The bit that gets me is they trail
:04:05. > :04:09.this ef are I time there is a -- every time there is a strike, this
:04:10. > :04:14.idea of cutting it to ballots and local election turnout was a third.
:04:15. > :04:18.Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London with 38% turnout. We need to
:04:19. > :04:26.talk about-turnout across our democracy. That is an easy rebuttal
:04:27. > :04:30.for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was hardline about changing the strike
:04:31. > :04:34.law. When you asked him the question, if you are not going to
:04:35. > :04:39.stabilise the public finances till 2018, does this mean the pay freeze
:04:40. > :04:43.or no real term pay increase in the public sector will increase till
:04:44. > :04:49.2018, h e was inner vous on that one. -- he was nervous on that one.
:04:50. > :04:51.This strike is different to those strikes that took place in 2010. At
:04:52. > :04:54.strikes that took place in 2010 At that time, the TUC and the Labour
:04:55. > :05:01.Leadership thought there was going to be a great movement out there,
:05:02. > :05:05.not a kind of 1926 movement, but a great movement out there. This time
:05:06. > :05:11.round, I think the climate is different. Ed Miliband talking about
:05:12. > :05:15.wage increases being outstripped by inflation and people not seeing the
:05:16. > :05:23.recovery coming through into their pay packets. Slightly more tricky
:05:24. > :05:28.territory for the Tories. If The Labour machine cannot make something
:05:29. > :05:34.out of Matt Hancock telling this programme there will be no increase
:05:35. > :05:37.in pay for workers in the public sector till 2018, they have a
:05:38. > :05:41.problem? They do have a problem They have to say always that they
:05:42. > :05:45.would not just turn the money taps on. That is the dance that you are
:05:46. > :05:48.locked in all the time. Can we all agree that Alan Johnson is not going
:05:49. > :05:57.to stand against Ed Miliband this side of the election? Some
:05:58. > :05:59.politicians are cynical enough. I don't think Alan Johnson is one.
:06:00. > :06:02.politicians are cynical enough. I don't think Alan Johnson is one Do
:06:03. > :06:06.we agree? There is nothing in it for Labour and certainly not for Alan
:06:07. > :06:12.Johnson. No way. It is the last thing he would want to do. There are
:06:13. > :06:15.some desperate members going around trying to find a stalking horse.
:06:16. > :06:19.Alan Johnson will not be their man. He has more important things to do
:06:20. > :06:24.on a Thursday night on BBC One! Isn't it something about the febrile
:06:25. > :06:29.state of the Labour Party that Labour, some Labour backbenchers or
:06:30. > :06:34.in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the idea of this nonsense? If there was
:06:35. > :06:37.a time to do it, maybe it was in the middle of the Parliament. With ten
:06:38. > :06:42.months left, you are stuck with the leader you chose in 2010. I remember
:06:43. > :06:49.them failing to understand this in January of 2010 when there was that
:06:50. > :07:02.last push against Gordon Brown. Five months before an election, they were
:07:03. > :07:05.trying to do something. The deputy Leader of the Labour Party had
:07:06. > :07:13.something to do with it. There is deep unease about Ed Miliband. There
:07:14. > :07:16.are problems but Alan Johnson is not the man. I think there is no chance
:07:17. > :07:20.of it! If the most recent polls are to be
:07:21. > :07:22.believed, David Cameron appears to have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' -
:07:23. > :07:25.clawing back some support from UKIP after he very publicly opposed the
:07:26. > :07:29.appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker to the post of EU Commission
:07:30. > :07:31.president. Last week Nigel Farage took his newly enlarged UKIP
:07:32. > :07:35.contingent to Strasbourg for the first session
:07:36. > :07:54.of the new European Parliament. These two gentlemen have nothing to
:07:55. > :07:59.say today. It was the usual dull, looking back to a model invented 50
:08:00. > :08:02.years ago and we are the ones that want democracy, we are the ones that
:08:03. > :08:07.want nation state, we are the ones that want a global future for our
:08:08. > :08:14.countries, not to be trapped inside this museum. Thank you. I can see we
:08:15. > :08:21.will be covering more of the European Parliament at last!
:08:22. > :08:24.It's rumoured he's likely to stand in the next general election in the
:08:25. > :08:26.Kent constituency of Thanet South, currently held by the Conservatives.
:08:27. > :08:28.Last week the Conservatives selected their candidate for the seat -
:08:29. > :08:31.Craig McKinlay - a former deputy leader of UKIP.
:08:32. > :08:41.Did you get the short straw, you have got a seat that Nigel Farage is
:08:42. > :08:47.probably going to fight? Not in the slightest. It is a seat that I know
:08:48. > :08:50.well. It is a seat that there's obvious euro scepticism there and my
:08:51. > :08:56.qualities are right for that seat. UKIP got some very good... What are
:08:57. > :09:00.your qualities? Deep-seated conservatism, I was a founder of
:09:01. > :09:06.UKIP, I wrote the script back in 1992. My heart is Conservative
:09:07. > :09:13.values. They are best put out to the public by me in South Thanet. It
:09:14. > :09:17.would be ridiculous if Nigel chose that seat. We need a building block
:09:18. > :09:20.of people like myself to form a Government if we are going to have
:09:21. > :09:24.that referendum that is long overdue. I don't think he's got the
:09:25. > :09:29.luxury of losing somebody who is very similar in views to him. He
:09:30. > :09:33.would be best look looking elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to
:09:34. > :09:37.stand in your seat, would you? It would seem to make very little
:09:38. > :09:41.sense. People would say what is UKIP all about if it's fighting people
:09:42. > :09:45.who have got a similar view to them? We do need to build a majority
:09:46. > :09:49.Government for the Conservatives next year because only us are
:09:50. > :09:53.offering that clear in-out referendum. I want to be one of
:09:54. > :09:58.those building blocks that is part of that renegotiation that we will
:09:59. > :10:03.put to public in a referendum. Sounds to me like if the choice is
:10:04. > :10:10.between you and Nigel Farage next May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle
:10:11. > :10:13.Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all. May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle
:10:14. > :10:15.Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all The Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all. The
:10:16. > :10:19.danger to this country is another Labour Government. That is one of
:10:20. > :10:23.the main reasons that I left UKIP in 2005 because that last five years of
:10:24. > :10:27.the Labour Government was the most dangerous to the fundamentals of
:10:28. > :10:37.Britain that we have ever seen. I'm happy with the Conservatives. I have
:10:38. > :10:44.full Conservative values. I am a Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining
:10:45. > :10:52.us. The Westminster bubble yet again, which has a herd mentality, a
:10:53. > :10:58.bubble with a herd mentality, it got it wrong yet again. Mr Cameron's
:10:59. > :11:03.isolated, he is useless at diplomacy, all of which may be true,
:11:04. > :11:06.but the British people liked it and his backbenchers liked it? True.
:11:07. > :11:10.Although some of us would say it is possible... You are speaking for the
:11:11. > :11:15.bubble? I'm speaking for my segment of the bubble. Some of us argued
:11:16. > :11:27.that he got it wrong diplomatically and it would be wrong politically.
:11:28. > :11:33.It will be the passage of time. We saw UKIP decline between the 20 4
:11:34. > :11:37.European elections and the 2005 General. You would expect something
:11:38. > :11:42.similar to happen this time round. The question is how far low do they
:11:43. > :11:47.fall? They are still registering 12-15% in the opinion polls. They
:11:48. > :12:30.are. When Mr Cameron wielded his veto which
:12:31. > :12:33.are. When Mr Cameron wielded his accountant. He is somebody who can
:12:34. > :12:37.be seen to be a champion of local people. If they had parachuted in a
:12:38. > :12:39.special adviser, they would be in real trouble. He wants to get out...
:12:40. > :15:01.This Former Cabinet Minister Lord Tebbit
:15:02. > :15:05.says he believes there may well have been a cover up over child abuse
:15:06. > :15:07.in the 1980s, after more than a hundred documents relating to
:15:08. > :15:14.historical abuse allegations are missing or have been destroyed.
:15:15. > :15:21.In Kenya, 29 people have been killed in two
:15:22. > :15:22.attacks by Islamist militants. And Britain's