15/01/2017

:00:32. > :00:36.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:37. > :00:39.Is the Prime Minister prepared to end Britain's membership

:00:40. > :00:42.of the EU's single market and its customs union?

:00:43. > :00:45.We preview Theresa May's big speech, as she seeks to unite the country

:00:46. > :00:52.Is the press a force for good or a beast that needs taming?

:00:53. > :00:55.As the Government ponders its decision, we speak to one

:00:56. > :01:00.of those leading the campaign for greater regulation.

:01:01. > :01:05.Just what kind of President will Donald Trump be?

:01:06. > :01:11.Piers Morgan, a man who knows him well, joins us live.

:01:12. > :01:13.Later on the Sunday Politics: Is the devolution revolution

:01:14. > :01:16.Why Yorkshire's political leaders are divided over a proposal

:01:17. > :01:27.for an elected mayor covering the whole county.

:01:28. > :01:30.And to help me make sense of all that, three of the finest

:01:31. > :01:33.hacks we could persuade to work on a Sunday - Steve Richards,

:01:34. > :01:41.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme, and you can join

:01:42. > :01:47.So, Theresa May is preparing for her big Brexit speech on Tuesday,

:01:48. > :01:50.in which she will urge people to give up on "insults"

:01:51. > :01:55.and "division" and unite to build, quote, a "global Britain".

:01:56. > :01:57.Some of the Sunday papers report that the Prime Minister will go

:01:58. > :02:01.The Sunday Telegraph splashes with the headline: "May's big

:02:02. > :02:05.gamble on a clean Brexit", saying the Prime Minister

:02:06. > :02:07.will announce she's prepared to take Britain out of membership

:02:08. > :02:12.of the single market and customs union.

:02:13. > :02:15.The Sunday Times has a similar write-up -

:02:16. > :02:18.they call it a "clean and hard Brexit".

:02:19. > :02:21.The Brexit Secretary David Davis has also written a piece in the paper

:02:22. > :02:24.hinting that a transitional deal could be on the cards.

:02:25. > :02:27.And the Sunday Express says: "May's Brexit Battle Plan",

:02:28. > :02:30.explaining that the Prime Minister will get tough with Brussels

:02:31. > :02:33.and call for an end to free movement.

:02:34. > :02:35.Well, let's get some more reaction on this.

:02:36. > :02:37.I'm joined now from Cumbria by the leader

:02:38. > :02:44.of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron.

:02:45. > :02:49.Mr Farron, welcome back to the programme. The Prime Minister says

:02:50. > :02:53.most people now just want to get on with it and make a success of it.

:02:54. > :02:59.But you still want to stop it, don't you? Well, I certainly take the view

:03:00. > :03:02.that heading for a hard Brexit, essentially that means being outside

:03:03. > :03:07.the Single Market and the customs union, is not something that was on

:03:08. > :03:10.the ballot paper last June. For Theresa May to adopt what is

:03:11. > :03:15.basically the large all Farage vision of Britain's relationship

:03:16. > :03:19.with Europe is not what was voted for last June. It is right for us to

:03:20. > :03:22.stand up and say that a hard Brexit is not the democratic choice of the

:03:23. > :03:26.British people, and that we should be fighting for the people to be the

:03:27. > :03:30.ones who have the Seat the end of this process, not have it forced

:03:31. > :03:34.upon them by Theresa May and David Davis. When it comes though dual

:03:35. > :03:38.position that we should remain in the membership of the Single Market

:03:39. > :03:44.and the customs union, it looks like you are losing the argument, doesn't

:03:45. > :03:48.it? My sense is that if you believe in being in the Single Market and

:03:49. > :03:52.the customs union are good things, I think many people on the leave site

:03:53. > :03:57.believe that, Stephen Phillips, the Conservative MP until the autumn who

:03:58. > :04:00.resigned, who voted for Leave but believe we should be in the Single

:04:01. > :04:05.Market, I think those people believe that it is wrong for us to enter the

:04:06. > :04:09.negotiations having given up on the most important part of it. If you

:04:10. > :04:13.really are going to fight Britain's corner, then you should go in there

:04:14. > :04:18.fighting the membership of the Single Market, not give up and

:04:19. > :04:23.whitefly, as Theresa May has done before we even start. -- and wave

:04:24. > :04:27.the white flag. Will you vote against regret Article 50 in the

:04:28. > :04:30.Commons? We made it clear that we want the British people to have the

:04:31. > :04:35.final Seat -- vote against triggering. Will you vote against

:04:36. > :04:41.Article 50. Will you encourage the House of Lords to vote against out

:04:42. > :04:45.Article 50? I don't think they will get a chance to vote. They will have

:04:46. > :04:48.a chance to win the deuce amendments. One amendment we will

:04:49. > :04:53.introduce is that there should be a referendum in the terms of the deal.

:04:54. > :04:56.It is not right that Parliament on Government, and especially not civil

:04:57. > :05:00.servants in Brussels and Whitehall, they should stitch-up the final

:05:01. > :05:04.deal. That would be wrong. It is right that the British people have

:05:05. > :05:10.the final say. I understand that as your position. You made it clear

:05:11. > :05:13.Britain to remain a member of the Single Market on the customs union.

:05:14. > :05:16.You accept, I assume, that that would mean remaining under the

:05:17. > :05:19.jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, continuing free movement

:05:20. > :05:25.of people, and the free-trade deals remained in Brussels' competence. So

:05:26. > :05:29.it seems to me that if you believe that being in the Single Market is a

:05:30. > :05:33.good thing, then you should go and argue for that. Whilst I believe

:05:34. > :05:36.that we're not going to get a better deal than the one we currently have,

:05:37. > :05:39.nevertheless it is up to the Government to go and argue for the

:05:40. > :05:44.best deal possible for us outside. You accept your position would mean

:05:45. > :05:48.that? It would mean certainly being in the Single Market and the customs

:05:49. > :05:51.union. It's no surprise to you I'm sure that the Lib Dems believe the

:05:52. > :05:55.package we have got now inside the EU is going to be of the Nutley

:05:56. > :05:59.better than anything we get from the outside, I accept the direction of

:06:00. > :06:03.travel -- is going to be the Nutley better. At the moment, what the

:06:04. > :06:07.Government are doing is assuming that all the things you say Drew,

:06:08. > :06:10.and there is no way possible for us arguing for a deal that allows in

:06:11. > :06:14.the Single Market without some of those other things. If they really

:06:15. > :06:19.believed in the best for Britain, you would go and argue for the best

:06:20. > :06:25.for Britain. Let's be clear, if we remain under the jurisdiction of the

:06:26. > :06:28.ECJ, which is the court that governs membership of the Single Market,

:06:29. > :06:33.continued free movement of people, the Europeans have made clear, is

:06:34. > :06:37.what goes with the Single Market. And free-trade deals remaining under

:06:38. > :06:41.Brussels' competence. If we accepted all of that is the price of

:06:42. > :06:43.membership of the Single Market, in what conceivable way with that

:06:44. > :06:50.amount to leaving the European Union? Well, for example, I do

:06:51. > :06:53.believe that being a member of the Single Market is worth fighting for.

:06:54. > :06:57.I personally believe that freedom of movement is a good thing. British

:06:58. > :07:01.people benefit from freedom of movement. We will hugely be hit as

:07:02. > :07:06.individuals and families and businesses. Mike I understand, but

:07:07. > :07:11.your writing of leaving... There the butt is that if you do except that

:07:12. > :07:16.freedom of movement has to change, I don't, but if you do, and if you are

:07:17. > :07:21.Theresa May, and the problem is to go and fight for the best deal,

:07:22. > :07:23.don't take it from Brussels that you can't be in the Single Market

:07:24. > :07:29.without those other things as well, you don't go and argue the case. It

:07:30. > :07:32.depresses me that Theresa May is beginning this process is waving the

:07:33. > :07:38.white flag, just as this morning Jeremy Corbyn was waving the white

:07:39. > :07:40.flag when it comes to it. We need a Government that will fight Britain's

:07:41. > :07:44.corner and an opposition that will fight the Government to make sure

:07:45. > :07:50.that it fights. Just explain to our viewers how we could remain members,

:07:51. > :07:56.members of the Single Market, and not be subject to the jurisdiction

:07:57. > :08:00.of the European court? So, first of all we spent over the last many,

:08:01. > :08:03.many years, the likes of Nigel Farage and others, will have argued,

:08:04. > :08:07.you heard them on this very programme, that Britain should

:08:08. > :08:10.aspire to be like Norway and Switzerland for example, countries

:08:11. > :08:14.that are not in the European Union but aren't the Single Market. It is

:08:15. > :08:18.very clear to me that if you want the best deal for Britain -- but are

:08:19. > :08:22.in the Single Market. You go and argue for the best deal. What is the

:08:23. > :08:28.answer to my question, you haven't answered it

:08:29. > :08:33.the question is, how does the Prime Minister go and fight for the best

:08:34. > :08:38.deal for Britain. If we think that being in the Single Market is the

:08:39. > :08:42.right thing, not Baxter -- not access to it but membership of it,

:08:43. > :08:46.you don't wave the white flag before you enter the negotiating room. I'm

:08:47. > :08:49.afraid we have run out of time. Thank you, Tim Farron.

:08:50. > :08:56.The leaks on this speech on Tuesday we have seen, it is interesting that

:08:57. > :09:03.Downing Street has not attempted to dampen them down this morning, in

:09:04. > :09:07.the various papers, do they tell us something new? Do they tell us more

:09:08. > :09:11.of the Goverment's aims in the Brexit negotiations? I think it's

:09:12. > :09:14.only a confirmation of something which has been in the mating really

:09:15. > :09:20.for the six months that she's been in the job. The logic of everything

:09:21. > :09:25.that she's said since last July, the keenness on re-gaining control of

:09:26. > :09:28.migration, the desire to do international trade deals, the fact

:09:29. > :09:31.that she is appointed trade Secretary, the logic of all of that

:09:32. > :09:34.is that we are out of the Single Market, quite probably out of the

:09:35. > :09:38.customs union, what will happen this week is a restatement of a fairly

:09:39. > :09:42.clear position anyway. I think Tim Farron is right about one thing, I

:09:43. > :09:45.don't think she will go into the speech planning to absolutely

:09:46. > :09:53.definitively say, we are leaving those things. Because even if there

:09:54. > :09:55.is a 1% chance of a miracle deal, where you stay in the Single Market,

:09:56. > :09:58.somehow get exempted from free movement, it is prudent to keep

:09:59. > :10:03.hopes on that option as a Prime Minister. -- to keep open that

:10:04. > :10:06.option. She is being advised both by the diplomatic corps and her

:10:07. > :10:09.personal advisers, don't concede on membership of the Single Market yet.

:10:10. > :10:18.We know it's not going to happen, but let them Europeans knock us back

:10:19. > :10:22.on that,... That is probably the right strategy for all of the

:10:23. > :10:26.reasons that Jarlan outlined there. What we learned a bit today is the

:10:27. > :10:29.possibility of some kind of transition or arrangements, which

:10:30. > :10:33.David Davies has been talking about in a comment piece for one of the

:10:34. > :10:38.Sunday papers. My sense from Brexiteers aborting MPs is that they

:10:39. > :10:43.are very happy with 90% of the rhetoric -- Brexit sporting MPs. The

:10:44. > :10:49.rhetoric has not been dampened down by MPs, apart from this transitional

:10:50. > :10:52.arrangement, which they feel and two France, on the one front will

:10:53. > :10:56.encourage the very dilatory EU to spend longer than ever negotiating a

:10:57. > :11:00.deal, and on the other hand will also be exactly what our civil

:11:01. > :11:04.service looks for in stringing things out. What wasn't explained

:11:05. > :11:08.this morning is what David Davies means by transitional is not that

:11:09. > :11:11.you negotiate what you can in two years and then spend another five

:11:12. > :11:17.years on the matter is that a lot of the soul. He thinks everything has

:11:18. > :11:20.to be done in the two years, -- of the matter are hard to solve. But it

:11:21. > :11:25.would include transitional arrangements over the five years.

:11:26. > :11:30.What we are seeing in the build-up is the danger of making these kind

:11:31. > :11:34.of speeches. In a way, I kind of admired her not feeding the media

:11:35. > :11:39.machine over the autumn and the end of last year cars, as Janan has

:11:40. > :11:43.pointed out in his columns, she has actually said quite a lot from it,

:11:44. > :11:48.you would extrapolate quite a lot. We won't be members of the Single

:11:49. > :11:54.Market? She said that in the party conference speech, we are out of

:11:55. > :11:59.European court. Her red line is the end of free movement, so we are out

:12:00. > :12:02.of the Single Market. Why has she sent Liam Fox to negotiate all of

:12:03. > :12:06.these other deals, not that he will succeed necessarily, but that is the

:12:07. > :12:09.intention? We are still in the customs union. You can extrapolate

:12:10. > :12:14.what she will say perhaps more cautiously in the headlines on

:12:15. > :12:18.Tuesday. But the grammar of a big speech raises expectations, gets the

:12:19. > :12:21.markets worked up. So she is doing it because people have said that she

:12:22. > :12:25.doesn't know what she's on about. But maybe she should have resisted

:12:26. > :12:29.it. Very well, and she hasn't. The speech is on Tuesday morning.

:12:30. > :12:31.Now, the public consultation on press regulation closed this

:12:32. > :12:33.week, and soon ministers will have to decide whether to

:12:34. > :12:35.enact a controversial piece of legislation.

:12:36. > :12:37.Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act, if implemented,

:12:38. > :12:40.could see newspapers forced to pay legal costs in libel and privacy

:12:41. > :12:50.If they don't sign up to an officially approved regulator.

:12:51. > :12:52.The newspapers say it's an affront to a free press,

:12:53. > :12:55.while pro-privacy campaigners say it's the only way to ensure

:12:56. > :12:56.a scandal like phone-hacking can't happen again.

:12:57. > :13:02.Ellie Price has been reading all about it.

:13:03. > :13:06.It was the biggest news about the news for decades,

:13:07. > :13:11.a scandal that involved household names, but not just celebrities.

:13:12. > :13:14.They've even hacked the phone of a murdered schoolgirl.

:13:15. > :13:17.It led to the closure of the News Of The World,

:13:18. > :13:26.a year-long public inquiry headed up by the judge Lord Justice Leveson,

:13:27. > :13:30.and in the end, a new press watchdog set up by Royal Charter,

:13:31. > :13:31.which could impose, among other things, million-pound fines.

:13:32. > :13:34.If this system is implemented, the country should have confidence

:13:35. > :13:36.that the terrible suffering of innocent victims

:13:37. > :13:38.like the Dowlers, the McCanns and Christopher Jefferies should

:13:39. > :13:44.To get this new plan rolling, the Government also passed

:13:45. > :13:48.the Crime and Courts Act, Section 40 of which would force

:13:49. > :13:51.publications who didn't sign up to the new regulator to pay legal

:13:52. > :13:55.costs in libel and privacy cases, even if they won.

:13:56. > :13:58.It's waiting for sign-off from the Culture Secretary.

:13:59. > :14:02.We've got about 50 publications that have signed up...

:14:03. > :14:05.This is Impress, the press regulator that's got the backing

:14:06. > :14:10.of the Royal Charter, so its members are protected

:14:11. > :14:14.from the penalties that would be imposed by Section 40.

:14:15. > :14:19.It's funded by the Formula One tycoon Max Mosley's

:14:20. > :14:25.I think the danger if we don't get Section 40 is that

:14:26. > :14:26.you have an incomplete Leveson project.

:14:27. > :14:30.I think it's very, very likely that within the next five or ten years

:14:31. > :14:32.there will be a scandal, there'll be a crisis in press

:14:33. > :14:34.standards, everyone will be saying to the Government,

:14:35. > :14:37."Why on Earth didn't you sort things out when you had the chance?"

:14:38. > :14:40.Isn't Section 40 essentially just a big stick to beat

:14:41. > :14:48.We hear a lot about the stick part, but there's also a big juicy carrot

:14:49. > :14:50.for publishers and their journalists who are members of an

:14:51. > :14:53.They get huge new protections from libel threats,

:14:54. > :14:55.from privacy actions, which actually means they've got

:14:56. > :15:04.a lot more opportunity to run investigative stories.

:15:05. > :15:07.Impress has a big image problem - not a single national

:15:08. > :15:12.Instead, many of them are members of Ipso,

:15:13. > :15:15.the independent regulator set up and funded by the industry that

:15:16. > :15:21.doesn't seek the recognition of the Royal Charter.

:15:22. > :15:24.The male cells around 22,000 each day...

:15:25. > :15:26.There are regional titles too, who, like the Birmingham Mail,

:15:27. > :15:29.won't sign up to Impress, even if they say the costs

:15:30. > :15:33.are associated with Section 40 could put them out of business.

:15:34. > :15:36.Impress has an umbilical cord that goes directly back to Government

:15:37. > :15:37.through the recognition setup that it has.

:15:38. > :15:40.Now, we broke free of the shackles of the regulated press

:15:41. > :15:43.when the stamp duty was revealed 150 years ago.

:15:44. > :15:50.If we go back to this level of oversight, then I think

:15:51. > :15:55.we turn the clock back, 150 years of press freedom.

:15:56. > :15:58.The responses from the public have been coming thick and fast

:15:59. > :15:59.since the Government launched its consultation

:16:00. > :16:02.In fact, by the time it closed on Tuesday,

:16:03. > :16:07.And for that reason alone, it could take months before

:16:08. > :16:11.a decision on what happens next is taken.

:16:12. > :16:14.The Government will also be minded to listen to its own MPs,

:16:15. > :16:20.One described it to me as Draconian and hugely damaging.

:16:21. > :16:22.So, will the current Culture Secretary's thinking be

:16:23. > :16:31.I don't think the Government will repeal section 40.

:16:32. > :16:35.What I'm arguing for is not to implement it, but it will remain

:16:36. > :16:39.on the statute book and if it then became apparent that Ipso simply

:16:40. > :16:42.was failing to work, was not delivering effective

:16:43. > :16:45.regulation and the press were behaving in a way

:16:46. > :16:50.which was wholly unacceptable, as they were ten years ago,

:16:51. > :16:54.then there might be an argument at that time to think well in that

:16:55. > :16:56.case we are going to have to take further measures,

:16:57. > :17:01.The future of section 40 might not be so black and white.

:17:02. > :17:04.I'm told a compromise could be met whereby the punitive parts

:17:05. > :17:08.about legal costs are dropped, but the incentives

:17:09. > :17:11.to join a recognised regulator are beefed up.

:17:12. > :17:14.But it could yet be some time until the issue of press freedom

:17:15. > :17:24.I'm joined now by Max Mosley - he won a legal case against the News

:17:25. > :17:27.Of The World after it revealed details about his private life,

:17:28. > :17:31.and he now campaigns for more press regulation.

:17:32. > :17:40.Are welcome to the programme. Let me ask you this, how can it be right

:17:41. > :17:44.that you, who many folk think have a clear vendetta against the British

:17:45. > :17:49.press, can bankroll a government approved regulator of the press? If

:17:50. > :17:53.we hadn't done it, nobody would, section 40 would never have come

:17:54. > :17:57.into force because there would never have been a regulator. It is

:17:58. > :18:02.absolutely wrong that a family trust should have to finance something

:18:03. > :18:07.like this. It should be financed by the press or the Government. If we

:18:08. > :18:08.hadn't done it there would be no possibility of regulation. But it

:18:09. > :18:36.means we end up with a regulator financed by you, as I say

:18:37. > :18:38.many people think you have a clear vendetta against the press. Where

:18:39. > :18:41.does the money come from? From a family trust, it is family money.

:18:42. > :18:43.You have to understand that somebody had to do this. I understand that.

:18:44. > :18:46.People like to know where the money comes from, I think you said it came

:18:47. > :18:50.from Brixton Steyn at one stage. Ages ago my father had a trust there

:18:51. > :18:53.but now all my money is in the UK. We are clear about that, but this is

:18:54. > :18:59.money that was put together by your father. Yes, my father inherited it

:19:00. > :19:03.from his father and his father. The whole of Manchester once belonged to

:19:04. > :19:08.the family, that's why there is a Mosley Street. That is irrelevant

:19:09. > :19:11.because as we have given the money, I have no control. If you do the

:19:12. > :19:22.most elementary checks into the contract between my family trust,

:19:23. > :19:26.the trust but finances Impress, it is impossible for me to exert any

:19:27. > :19:32.influence. It is just the same as if it had come from the National

:19:33. > :19:37.lottery. People will find it ironic that the money has come from

:19:38. > :19:46.historically Britain's best-known fascist. No, it has come from my

:19:47. > :19:50.family, the Mosley family. This is complete drivel because we have no

:19:51. > :19:55.control. Where the money comes from doesn't matter, if it had come from

:19:56. > :20:00.the national lottery it would be exactly the same. Impress was

:20:01. > :20:05.completely independent. But it wouldn't exist without your money,

:20:06. > :20:09.wouldn't it? But that doesn't give you influence. It might exist

:20:10. > :20:15.because it was founded before I was ever in contact with them. Isn't it

:20:16. > :20:19.curious then that so many leading light show your hostile views of the

:20:20. > :20:25.press? I don't think it is because I don't know a single member of the

:20:26. > :20:30.Impress board. The chairman I have met months. The only person I know

:20:31. > :20:37.is Jonathan Hayward who you had on just now. In one recent months he

:20:38. > :20:43.tweeted 50 attacks on the Daily Mail, including some calling for an

:20:44. > :20:49.advertising boycott of the paper. He also liked a Twitter post calling me

:20:50. > :20:54.Daily Mail and neofascist rag. Are these fitting for what is meant to

:20:55. > :20:58.be impartial regulator? The person you should ask about that is the

:20:59. > :21:02.press regulatory panel and they are completely independent, they

:21:03. > :21:07.reviewed the whole thing. You have probably produced something very

:21:08. > :21:09.selective, I have no idea but I am certain that these people are

:21:10. > :21:14.absolutely trustworthy and independent. It is not just Mr

:21:15. > :21:19.Hayward, we have a tonne of things he has tweeted calling for boycotts,

:21:20. > :21:25.remember this is the man that would be the regulator of these papers.

:21:26. > :21:31.He's the chief executive, that is a separate thing. The administration,

:21:32. > :21:40.the regulator. Many leading light show your vendetta of the press. I

:21:41. > :21:56.do not have a vendetta. Let's take another one. This person is on the

:21:57. > :22:02.code committee. Have a look at this. As someone with these views fit to

:22:03. > :22:06.be involved in the regulation of the press? You said I have a vendetta

:22:07. > :22:11.against the press, I do not, I didn't say that and it is completely

:22:12. > :22:17.wrong to say I have a vendetta. What do you think of that? I don't agree,

:22:18. > :22:28.I wouldn't ban the Daily Mail, I think it's a dreadful paper but I

:22:29. > :22:36.wouldn't ban it. Another Impress code committee said I hate the Daily

:22:37. > :22:40.Mail, I couldn't agree more, others have called for a boycott. Other

:22:41. > :22:45.people can say what they want and many people may think they are right

:22:46. > :22:51.but surely these views make them unfit to be partial regulators? I

:22:52. > :22:54.have no influence over Impress therefore I cannot say anything

:22:55. > :23:01.about it. You should ask them, not me. All I have done is make it

:23:02. > :23:06.possible for Impress to exist and that was the right thing to do. I'm

:23:07. > :23:12.asking you if people with these kind of views are fit to be regulators of

:23:13. > :23:17.the press. You would have to ask about all of their views, these are

:23:18. > :23:24.some of their views. A lot of people have a downer on the Daily Mail and

:23:25. > :23:28.the Sun, it doesn't necessarily make them party pre-. Why would

:23:29. > :23:34.newspapers sign up to a regulator run by what they think is run by

:23:35. > :23:38.enemies out to ruin them. If they don't like it they should start

:23:39. > :23:45.their own section 40 regulator. They could make it so recognised, if only

:23:46. > :23:54.they would make it independent of the big newspaper barons but they

:23:55. > :24:04.won't -- they could make Ipso recognised. Is the Daily Mail

:24:05. > :24:08.fascist? It certainly was in the 1930s. Me and my father are

:24:09. > :24:13.relevant, this whole section 40 issue is about access to justice.

:24:14. > :24:17.The press don't want ordinary people who cannot afford to bring an action

:24:18. > :24:21.against the press, don't want them to have access to justice. I can

:24:22. > :24:27.understand that but I don't sympathise. What would happen to the

:24:28. > :24:34.boss of Ofcom, which regulates broadcasters, if it described

:24:35. > :24:43.Channel 4 News is a Marxist scum? If the press don't want to sign up to

:24:44. > :24:52.Impress they can create their own regulator. If you were to listen we

:24:53. > :24:57.would get a lot further. The press should make their own Levenson

:24:58. > :25:02.compliant regulator, then they would have no complaints at all. Even

:25:03. > :25:07.papers like the Guardian, the Independent, the Financial Times,

:25:08. > :25:14.they show your hostility to tabloid journalism. They have refused to be

:25:15. > :25:17.regulated by Impress. I will say it again, the press could start their

:25:18. > :25:23.own regulator, they do not have to sign... Yes, but Levenson compliant

:25:24. > :25:27.one giving access to justice so people who cannot afford an

:25:28. > :25:31.expensive legal action have a proper arbitration service. The Guardian,

:25:32. > :25:35.the Independent, the Financial Times, they don't want to do that

:25:36. > :25:40.either. That would suggest there is something fatally flawed about your

:25:41. > :25:52.approach. Even these kind of papers, the Guardian, Impress is hardly

:25:53. > :26:01.independent, the head of... Andrew, I am sorry, you are like a dog with

:26:02. > :26:05.a bone. The press could start their own regulator, then people like the

:26:06. > :26:09.Financial Times, the Guardian and so one could decide whether they wanted

:26:10. > :26:12.to join or not but what is absolutely vital is that we should

:26:13. > :26:16.have a proper arbitration service so that people who cannot afford an

:26:17. > :26:21.expensive action have somewhere to go. This business of section 40

:26:22. > :26:25.which you want to be triggered which would mean papers that didn't sign

:26:26. > :26:29.up to Impress could be sued in any case and they would have to pay

:26:30. > :26:38.potentially massive legal costs, even if they win. Yes. This is what

:26:39. > :26:43.the number of papers have said about this, if section 40 was triggered,

:26:44. > :26:50.the Guardian wouldn't even think of investigation. The Sunday Times said

:26:51. > :26:53.it would not have even started to expose Lance Armstrong. The Times

:26:54. > :26:58.journalist said he couldn't have done the Rotherham child abuse

:26:59. > :27:02.scandal. What they all come it is a full reading of section 40 because

:27:03. > :27:09.that cost shifting will only apply if, and I quote, it is just and

:27:10. > :27:13.equitable in all the circumstances. I cannot conceive of any High Court

:27:14. > :27:18.judge, for example the Lance Armstrong case or the child abuse,

:27:19. > :27:23.saying it is just as equitable in all circumstances the newspaper

:27:24. > :27:29.should pay these costs. Even the editor of index on censorship, which

:27:30. > :27:33.is hardly the Sun, said this would be oppressive and they couldn't do

:27:34. > :27:39.what they do, they would risk being sued by warlords. No because if

:27:40. > :27:44.something unfortunate, some really bad person sues them, what would

:27:45. > :27:47.happen is the judge would say it is just inequitable normal

:27:48. > :27:51.circumstances that person should pay. Section 40 is for the person

:27:52. > :27:55.that comes along and says to a big newspaper, can we go to arbitration

:27:56. > :28:00.because I cannot afford to go to court. The big newspaper says no.

:28:01. > :28:05.That leaves less than 1% of the population with any remedy if the

:28:06. > :28:11.newspapers traduce them. It cannot be right. From the Guardian to the

:28:12. > :28:17.Sun, and including Index On Censorship, all of these media

:28:18. > :28:20.outlets think you are proposing a charter for conmen, warlords, crime

:28:21. > :28:24.bosses, dodgy politicians, celebrities with a grievance against

:28:25. > :28:33.the press. I will give you the final word to address that. It is pure

:28:34. > :28:37.guff and the reason is they want to go on marking their own homework.

:28:38. > :28:42.The press don't want anyone to make sure life is fair. All I want is

:28:43. > :28:46.somebody who has got no money to be able to sue in just the way that I

:28:47. > :28:50.can. All right, thanks for being with us.

:28:51. > :28:52.The doctors' union, the British Medical Association,

:28:53. > :28:54.has said the Government is scapegoating GPs in England

:28:55. > :28:58.The Government has said GP surgeries must try harder to stay

:28:59. > :29:01.open from 8am to 8pm, or they could lose out on funding.

:29:02. > :29:04.The pressure on A services in recent weeks has been intense.

:29:05. > :29:07.It emerged this week that 65 of the 152 Health Trusts in England

:29:08. > :29:09.had issued an operational pressure alert in the first

:29:10. > :29:16.At either level three, meaning major pressures,

:29:17. > :29:18.or level four, indicating an inability to deliver

:29:19. > :29:23.On Monday, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt told the Commons

:29:24. > :29:26.that the number of people using A had increased by 9 million

:29:27. > :29:34.But that 30% of those visits were unnecessary.

:29:35. > :29:36.He said that the situation at a number of Trusts

:29:37. > :29:41.On Tuesday, the Royal College of Physicians wrote

:29:42. > :29:44.to the Prime Minister saying the health service was being

:29:45. > :29:49.paralysed by spiralling demand, and urging greater investment.

:29:50. > :29:53.On Wednesday, the Chief Executive of NHS England, Simon Stevens,

:29:54. > :29:58.told a Select Committee that NHS funding will be highly constrained.

:29:59. > :30:02.And from 2018, real-terms spending per person would fall.

:30:03. > :30:06.The Prime Minister described the Red Cross's claim that A

:30:07. > :30:10.was facing a "humanitarian crisis" as "irresponsible and overblown".

:30:11. > :30:14.And the National Audit Office issued a report that found almost half,

:30:15. > :30:20.46%, of GP surgeries closed at some point during core hours.

:30:21. > :30:24.Yesterday, Mrs May signalled her support for doctors' surgeries

:30:25. > :30:28.opening from 8am to 8pm every day of the week, in order to divert

:30:29. > :30:35.To discuss this, I'm joined now by the Conservative

:30:36. > :30:37.MP Maria Caulfield - she was an NHS nurse in a former

:30:38. > :30:40.life - and Clare Gerada, a former chair of the Royal College

:30:41. > :30:51.Welcome to you both. So, Maria Caulfield, what the Government is

:30:52. > :30:55.saying, Downing Street in effect is saying that GPs do not work hard

:30:56. > :30:59.enough and that's the reason why A was under such pressure? No, I don't

:31:00. > :31:02.think that is the message, I think that is the message that the media

:31:03. > :31:07.have taken up. That is not the expression that we want to give. I

:31:08. > :31:11.still work as a nurse, I know how hard doctors work in hospitals and

:31:12. > :31:16.GP practices. When the rose 30% of people turning up at A for neither

:31:17. > :31:21.an accident or an emergency, we do need to look at alternative. Where

:31:22. > :31:25.is the GPs' operability in this? We know from patients that if they

:31:26. > :31:29.cannot get access to GPs, they will do one of three things. They will

:31:30. > :31:32.wait two or three weeks until they can get an appointment, they will

:31:33. > :31:36.forget about the problem altogether, which is not good, we want patients

:31:37. > :31:45.to be getting investigations at early stages, or they will go to

:31:46. > :31:48.A And that is a problem. I'm not quite sure what the role that GPs

:31:49. > :31:51.play in this. What is your response in that? I think about 70% of

:31:52. > :31:54.patients that I see should not be seen by me but should still be seen

:31:55. > :31:58.by hospital consultants. If we look at it from GPs' eyes and not from

:31:59. > :32:02.hospital's eyes, because that is what it is, we might get somewhere.

:32:03. > :32:07.Tomorrow morning, every practice in England will have about 1.5 GPs

:32:08. > :32:12.shot, that's not even counting if there is traffic problems, sickness

:32:13. > :32:15.or whatever. -- GPs shot. We cannot work any harder, I cannot

:32:16. > :32:23.physically, emotionally work any harder. We are open 12 hours a day,

:32:24. > :32:27.most of us, I run practices open 365 days per year 24 hours a day. I

:32:28. > :32:31.don't understand this. It is one thing attacking me as a GP from

:32:32. > :32:34.working hard enough, but it is another thing saying that GPs as a

:32:35. > :32:40.profession and doing what they should be doing. Let me in National

:32:41. > :32:47.Audit Office has coming up with these figures showing that almost

:32:48. > :32:51.half of doctors' practices are not open during core hours at some part

:32:52. > :32:55.of the week. That's where the implication comes, that they are not

:32:56. > :32:59.working hard enough. What do you say to that? I don't recognise this. I'm

:33:00. > :33:03.not being defensive, I'm just don't recognise it. There are practices

:33:04. > :33:07.working palliative care services, practices have to close home visits

:33:08. > :33:10.if they are single-handed, some of us are working in care homes during

:33:11. > :33:17.the day. They may shot for an hour in the middle of the data will sort

:33:18. > :33:19.out some of the prescriptions and admin -- they may shot. My practice

:33:20. > :33:22.runs a number of practices across London. If we shut during our

:33:23. > :33:27.contractual hours we would have NHS England coming down on us like a

:33:28. > :33:32.tonne of bricks. Maria Caulfield, I'm struggling to understand, given

:33:33. > :33:34.the problems the NHS faces, particularly in our hospitals, what

:33:35. > :33:39.this has got to do with the solution? Obviously there are GP

:33:40. > :33:43.practices that are working, you know, over and above the hours. But

:33:44. > :33:49.there are some GP practices, we know from National Audit Office, there

:33:50. > :33:52.are particular black sports -- blackspots in the country that only

:33:53. > :33:56.offer services for three hours a week. That's causing problems if

:33:57. > :34:01.they cannot get to see a GP they will go and use A Nobody is

:34:02. > :34:04.saying that this measure would solve problems at A, it would address

:34:05. > :34:09.one small part of its top blog we shouldn't be starting this, as I

:34:10. > :34:12.keep saying, please to this from solving the problems at A We

:34:13. > :34:16.should be starting it from solving the problems of the patients in

:34:17. > :34:22.their totality, the best place they should go, not from A This really

:34:23. > :34:27.upsets me, as a GP I am there to be a proxy A doctor. I am a GP, a

:34:28. > :34:31.highly skilled doctor, looking after patients from cradle to grave across

:34:32. > :34:37.the physical, psychological and social, I am not an A doctor. I

:34:38. > :34:41.don't disagree with that, nobody is saying that GPs are not working hard

:34:42. > :34:45.enough. You just did, actually, about some of them. In some

:34:46. > :34:50.practices, what we need to see, it's not just GPs in GP surgeries, it is

:34:51. > :34:54.advanced nurse practitioners, pharmacists. It doesn't necessarily

:34:55. > :35:00.need to be all on the GPs. I think advanced nurse practitioners are in

:35:01. > :35:03.short supply. Position associate or go to hospital, -- physician

:35:04. > :35:07.associates. We have very few trainees, junior doctors in general

:35:08. > :35:10.practice, unlike hospitals, which tend to have some slack with the

:35:11. > :35:15.junior doctor community and workforce. This isn't an argument,

:35:16. > :35:18.this is about saying, let's stop looking at the National health

:35:19. > :35:25.system as a National hospital system. GPs tomorrow will see about

:35:26. > :35:29.1.3 million patients. That is a lot of thoughtful. A lot of activity

:35:30. > :35:34.with no resources. If you wanted the GPs to behave better, in your terms,

:35:35. > :35:38.when you allocated more money to GPs, part of the reforms, because

:35:39. > :35:42.that's where it went, shouldn't you have targeted it more closely to

:35:43. > :35:46.where they want to operate? That is exactly what the Prime Minister is

:35:47. > :35:50.saying, extra funding is being made available by GPs to extend hours and

:35:51. > :35:53.services. If certain GP practices cannot do that, the money will

:35:54. > :35:58.follow the patient to where they move onto. We have no doctors to do

:35:59. > :36:00.it. I was on a coach last week, the coach driver stopped in the service

:36:01. > :36:05.station for an hour, they were stopping for a rest. We cannot do

:36:06. > :36:12.it. Even if you gave us millions more money, and thankfully NHS is

:36:13. > :36:14.recognising that we need a solution through the five-day week, we

:36:15. > :36:18.haven't got the doctors to deliver this. It would take a while to get

:36:19. > :36:21.them? That's my point, that's why we need to be using all how care

:36:22. > :36:25.professional. Even if you got this right, would it make a difference to

:36:26. > :36:29.what many regard as the crisis in our hospitals? I think it would. If

:36:30. > :36:33.you look at patients, they just want to go to a service that will address

:36:34. > :36:37.the problems. In Scotland for example, pharmacists have their own

:36:38. > :36:40.patient list. Patients go and see the pharmacists first. There are

:36:41. > :36:46.lots of conditions, for example if you want anticoagulants, you don't

:36:47. > :36:51.necessarily need to see a doctor, a pharmacist can manage that and free

:36:52. > :36:54.up the doctor in other ways. The Prime Minister has said that if

:36:55. > :36:57.things do not change she is threatening to reduce funding to

:36:58. > :37:00.doctors who do not comply. Can you both agree, that is probably an

:37:01. > :37:05.empty threat, that's not going to happen? I hope it's an empty threat.

:37:06. > :37:09.We're trying our best. People like me in my profession, the seniors in

:37:10. > :37:13.our profession, are really trying to pull up morale and get people into

:37:14. > :37:17.general practice, which is a wonderful profession, absolutely

:37:18. > :37:21.wonderful place to be. But slapping us off and telling us that we are

:37:22. > :37:25.lazy really doesn't help. I really don't think anybody is doing that.

:37:26. > :37:28.We have run out of time, but I'm certain that we will be back to the

:37:29. > :37:30.subject before this winter is out. It's just gone 11:35am,

:37:31. > :37:33.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:37:34. > :37:35.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20

:37:36. > :37:44.minutes: The Week Ahead. Hello, you're watching

:37:45. > :37:45.the Sunday Politics Coming up today: Could

:37:46. > :37:50.we finally see one mayor The idea has split

:37:51. > :37:55.Labour down the middle. Teachers say there is a cash

:37:56. > :37:58.crisis in education. Will the government's new funding

:37:59. > :38:02.formula sort it out? I speak to colleague after colleague

:38:03. > :38:08.after colleague across the country. I know a lot of people

:38:09. > :38:13.and we are all in this together. We'll be discussing those subjects

:38:14. > :38:15.and more with our guests today, who are Julian Smith,

:38:16. > :38:17.Conservative MP for Skipton and Ripon, and Louise Haigh,

:38:18. > :38:24.Labour MP for Sheffield Heeley. So what's been the big story

:38:25. > :38:27.for you this week, Louise Haigh? Obviously the NHS has

:38:28. > :38:29.dominated headlines. I raised a case of a constituent

:38:30. > :38:32.of mine this week whose husband tragically died whilst

:38:33. > :38:35.he was waiting two and a half hours I think we are really, I know

:38:36. > :38:40.we overuse this word quite a lot, but I think we are really

:38:41. > :38:43.seeing a crisis in the NHS at the moment and we have had countless

:38:44. > :38:48.examples raised in the house this week so I think it will continue

:38:49. > :38:51.to rumble on in the coming months. What caught your eye

:38:52. > :38:56.this week, Julian Smith? It has been the rebranding

:38:57. > :38:58.that has been taking place, which hasn't gone as well

:38:59. > :39:01.for Jeremy Corbyn, and the fact that policies on immigration

:39:02. > :39:02.and the economy change within the space of about six hours,

:39:03. > :39:05.and then by the end of the week one of the bright,

:39:06. > :39:11.young, potentially future leaders of the Labour Party and the official

:39:12. > :39:14.opposition has resigned his MP seat. We may discuss that a little

:39:15. > :39:21.bit later, but first... This year some of England's

:39:22. > :39:23.biggest cities will choose But there'll be no such

:39:24. > :39:28.elections taking place One of the proposed

:39:29. > :39:32.mayoral contests, in the Sheffield City Region,

:39:33. > :39:35.has been postponed. And now one senior Labour MP has

:39:36. > :39:38.suggested going back to the drawing board and creating a single mayor

:39:39. > :39:42.for the whole of the Yorkshire and Humber region, a proposal

:39:43. > :39:46.which been rejected by other Labour MPs representing South

:39:47. > :39:49.Yorkshire constituencies. Behind closed doors at a union

:39:50. > :39:54.headquarters in Wakefield, Yorkshire's Labour council leaders

:39:55. > :39:58.met on Friday to hear a new proposal for devolution,

:39:59. > :40:00.but it's the Government's policy Even though they're not in office,

:40:01. > :40:05.when it comes to devolution in Yorkshire, Labour is very much

:40:06. > :40:08.in the driving seat. That's because the Government has

:40:09. > :40:12.made it clear that it's up to individual local councils

:40:13. > :40:15.to decide who it is that they partner up

:40:16. > :40:33.with to form devolved regions, and here in Yorkshire virtually

:40:34. > :40:35.all of the big local So when the Shadow Cabinet minister

:40:36. > :40:39.responsible for constitutional change says that he wants Yorkshire

:40:40. > :40:42.to be run by a single mayor with a big devolved region covering

:40:43. > :40:45.the whole of the county including North Lincolnshire, then that

:40:46. > :40:47.proposal carries some weight. We're all agreed, something

:40:48. > :40:49.big has to happen. Now, exactly how we do it,

:40:50. > :40:52.I think we're beginning to get towards a solution

:40:53. > :40:55.and I put my idea forward. It's a personal idea and I think

:40:56. > :40:58.it's won some people to it. Other people said that it was

:40:59. > :41:01.already their idea and one or two people said we needed to know

:41:02. > :41:03.some more details. Look, we started a debate

:41:04. > :41:06.and I wanted to hear the views of ordinary Yorkshire folk as well,

:41:07. > :41:08.by the way. Devolution for South Yorkshire,

:41:09. > :41:20.the Sheffield city region, run by an elected mayor with extra

:41:21. > :41:23.powers and money has already been signed and was due to be launched

:41:24. > :41:26.in four months' time. But last week, it was postponed

:41:27. > :41:29.for a year, so does the all I don't think the Sheffield city

:41:30. > :41:35.region is dead at all. This is about an overarching deal

:41:36. > :41:37.that can actually bring more It's a Yorkshire voice that we're

:41:38. > :41:41.talking about here today and therefore we're behind it,

:41:42. > :41:43.but I'm here for Doncaster, making sure the residents

:41:44. > :41:45.are supported and businesses because that's how we're going

:41:46. > :41:50.to continue growing that economy. But the Government minister

:41:51. > :41:52.responsible for devolution says these 11th hour Labour proposals

:41:53. > :41:58.are totally unworkable. I'm not convinced all

:41:59. > :42:01.of the councils will agree to that in that area anyway,

:42:02. > :42:04.and you are then undoing a deal which has already been done

:42:05. > :42:06.which makes it even What I think we should be focusing

:42:07. > :42:10.on is we've got a good deal for South Yorkshire,

:42:11. > :42:12.let's look at East, West and North Yorkshire

:42:13. > :42:14.where I think very definitely, A lot of people who live in York

:42:15. > :42:19.and Harrogate work in Leeds, the Humber ports serve

:42:20. > :42:21.the West Yorkshire economy. Instead of trying to mess everything

:42:22. > :42:25.up that we've already negotiated, let's deal with the bits

:42:26. > :42:28.where we don't have a deal already. And the respected thinktank that

:42:29. > :42:31.looks at how to revive urban areas says trying to stretch devolution

:42:32. > :42:33.to the whole of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire makes

:42:34. > :42:34.no economic sense. If leaders choose to go down

:42:35. > :42:37.the all Yorkshire approach, I think there are some questions

:42:38. > :42:40.and some issues that we would want clarity on, which our how

:42:41. > :42:43.are at the Leeds city region, how is Sheffield city region really

:42:44. > :42:45.going to benefit from that. I think those will be

:42:46. > :42:47.questions that the leaders Well, the Government

:42:48. > :42:57.appears to be quite clear. If negotiations start again,

:42:58. > :42:59.devolution, whatever form it takes in Yorkshire,

:43:00. > :43:01.could be delayed for years Well, Louise Haigh, do

:43:02. > :43:11.you support your Labour colleague, Jon Trickett's proposals

:43:12. > :43:15.for a single directly-elected mayor John has put forward his personal

:43:16. > :43:23.view, it's not mine. The Sheffield city region deal

:43:24. > :43:28.is already on the cusp Alright, it's been delayed a year

:43:29. > :43:32.because of the problems around the Chesterfield judicial review,

:43:33. > :43:34.but what is needed is the best possible deal for the whole

:43:35. > :43:37.of South Yorkshire and the Sheffield city region and I believe

:43:38. > :43:39.it's that economic area, Jon Trickett is the man in charge

:43:40. > :43:43.of devolution so this is a major You have just heard him saying that

:43:44. > :43:48.clip that that is his personal view. But he's in charge of your

:43:49. > :43:50.policy on devolution. The whole point of devolution

:43:51. > :43:53.is for local areas to decide We will not dictate from Westminster

:43:54. > :43:57.what's the right area or the right deal for devolution and local

:43:58. > :44:02.authority leaders have already decided amongst themselves

:44:03. > :44:04.in the Sheffield city region, and I think if we can

:44:05. > :44:06.still deliver on that then Yorkshire as an economic

:44:07. > :44:09.area doesn't actually Sheffield doesn't have very much

:44:10. > :44:15.in common with York or Harrogate in the same way it has

:44:16. > :44:19.with Chesterfield and the wider Sheffield city region

:44:20. > :44:21.which encompasses South Yorkshire as well and that is the point

:44:22. > :44:24.about these devolution deals, they are based on economic areas

:44:25. > :44:27.and other Sheffield and city MPs agree with me, as do

:44:28. > :44:29.the local authority leaders. Julian Smith, we seem to have come

:44:30. > :44:32.full circle on this story and many people will be

:44:33. > :44:34.scratching their heads. Why doesn't the government step

:44:35. > :44:36.in and intervene between warring I think the Sheffield deal,

:44:37. > :44:40.the South Yorkshire deal, We have obviously got this legal

:44:41. > :44:54.issue at the moment but I am pleased that local MPs are supportive of it

:44:55. > :44:57.because it will mean about ?1 billion more over the next

:44:58. > :45:00.30 years for the region and it will be a great asset

:45:01. > :45:02.for that part of Yorkshire, but we now have got to seize

:45:03. > :45:05.the opportunity of coming up with a deal for the rest

:45:06. > :45:08.of Yorkshire, and east, west and north of Yorkshire

:45:09. > :45:10.still hasn't come together. I know that the minister is working

:45:11. > :45:19.incredibly hard with local councils, and I call on them yet again to make

:45:20. > :45:22.sure that they seize this opportunity because this is money,

:45:23. > :45:24.this is growth, this is an opportunity to control

:45:25. > :45:26.affairs here in Yorkshire. If it is so good, why aren't council

:45:27. > :45:29.leaders gunning for it I think that discussions are getting

:45:30. > :45:33.more positive but we need particularly the West Yorkshire

:45:34. > :45:35.councils to get more enthusiastic It will bring huge opportunity

:45:36. > :45:46.for our region and I think will be absolutely the best thing to do

:45:47. > :45:48.for this area. Louise Haigh, are you absolutely

:45:49. > :45:51.convinced this Sheffield city deal, with an elected mayor,

:45:52. > :45:53.will ever, ever happen? We heard from Ros Jones,

:45:54. > :45:55.mayor of Doncaster, she is tempted Barnsley as well, we are told, could

:45:56. > :46:00.be tempted by an all Yorkshire deal. I think that it's right,

:46:01. > :46:06.especially with the year-long delay now that if there is going to be

:46:07. > :46:10.that delay then people should look I personally don't think Barnsley

:46:11. > :46:22.and Doncaster would be best-served in a wider Yorkshire deal

:46:23. > :46:25.but that is up for Barnsley I am still convinced it could well

:46:26. > :46:30.happen in May 2018 but I think a big problem with this is because these

:46:31. > :46:33.powers and this money has been very rigidly tied to the idea

:46:34. > :46:36.of an elected metro mayor to be quite honest I'm not convinced that

:46:37. > :46:39.what people want are more layers I think that has been part

:46:40. > :46:43.of the problem that has David Cameron was right when he said

:46:44. > :46:46.people in Yorkshire hate each other more than they hate

:46:47. > :46:48.the other regions. Councils are talking and there have

:46:49. > :46:52.been more positive talks in the last few weeks and I am confident

:46:53. > :46:56.that we will come to a deal for the rest of Yorkshire and I am

:46:57. > :46:58.absolutely certain the government is not going to unpick

:46:59. > :47:00.the Sheffield deal. That's here to stay and now the rest

:47:01. > :47:04.of Yorkshire needs to get going and come to a conclusion

:47:05. > :47:06.after many, many months, where Manchester, where Liverpool,

:47:07. > :47:08.where Birmingham are steaming ahead and we're losing out and we've got

:47:09. > :47:11.to grasp the opportunity now and I call particularly on West

:47:12. > :47:16.Yorkshire council to get on with it. What happens to all of this

:47:17. > :47:18.money if we don't get a mayor for various parts

:47:19. > :47:20.of Yorkshire, ?13 million a year that other cities are

:47:21. > :47:23.getting, where does it go? I think that we have got to realise

:47:24. > :47:27.that there is a devolution agenda. London benefits from that,

:47:28. > :47:29.from having an ambassador, it is now Sadiq Khan

:47:30. > :47:32.and it was Boris Johnson, whatever the colour,

:47:33. > :47:39.this is an opportunity for a senior individual to seize control and get

:47:40. > :47:42.the best deal and the best We will no doubt come back

:47:43. > :47:46.to this subject as 2017 But now, there are claims that many

:47:47. > :47:49.schools in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are facing

:47:50. > :47:50.a cash crisis. The government says our education

:47:51. > :47:54.system is better funded than ever. But many teachers claim

:47:55. > :47:57.they are having to do more for less, and a new funding formula

:47:58. > :48:00.for schools looks set to create Since 2010 Huntington School

:48:01. > :48:09.in York has, in real terms, lost hundreds of thousands of pounds

:48:10. > :48:12.off its budget. And the remaining ones are teaching

:48:13. > :48:17.more to avoid further redundancies. We have cut everything we possibly

:48:18. > :48:20.can, so everything like gas, electricity, cleaning, all of those

:48:21. > :48:25.have been pared to the bone. We have got new textbooks

:48:26. > :48:27.for new courses that we cannot afford to buy and students

:48:28. > :48:30.and parents have to dig into their pockets and start buying

:48:31. > :48:33.those things and that is where The government says the education

:48:34. > :48:43.budget is at an all-time high and the overall budget

:48:44. > :48:45.is protected against inflation, but unions say the figures don't

:48:46. > :48:48.consider things like It also doesn't take

:48:49. > :48:53.into account things like pension schemes, National Insurance

:48:54. > :49:00.and annual pay rises. But could things be

:49:01. > :49:04.different in the future? The government is consulting

:49:05. > :49:08.on changing the way that Under the current funding formula

:49:09. > :49:08.money is allocated to individual schools is based on how much

:49:09. > :49:11.they got historically. And generally bigger

:49:12. > :49:16.cities getting more money. But a new funding formula

:49:17. > :49:19.being proposed will take things like low attainment,

:49:20. > :49:21.deprivation and school Beverley and Holderness Conservative

:49:22. > :49:27.MP Graham Stuart has spent years campaining for fairer funding

:49:28. > :49:32.and welcomes the change. It is the first time

:49:33. > :49:35.that we will have a school funding formula that is based objectively

:49:36. > :49:39.on pupil need and it is welcome and we will see a big improvement,

:49:40. > :49:42.not least in Yorkshire. Some schools, like those

:49:43. > :49:50.in York and Barnsley, will get more money,

:49:51. > :49:52.but to pay for that, others in places like Bradford

:49:53. > :49:55.and Wakefield will get less. In real terms the education sector

:49:56. > :49:58.is in a tight position in the next few years,

:49:59. > :50:00.with a small overall reduction, but generally in the context

:50:01. > :50:07.of the public sector being protected, compared

:50:08. > :50:12.to what would happen if you didn't have this funding distribution,

:50:13. > :50:14.nearly all the schools in my constituency are better off

:50:15. > :50:17.and Yorkshire is better off The National Union of Teachers says

:50:18. > :50:23.this new formula will mean real term cuts in funding to around 90%

:50:24. > :50:29.of schools in England. I'm getting increasingly

:50:30. > :50:31.concerned about the future. We're going through a period

:50:32. > :50:34.when children's needs are not going to be met,

:50:35. > :50:37.we've got a government that seems hell-bent

:50:38. > :50:40.on funding its own pet projects, such as grammar schools,

:50:41. > :50:42.free schools, academies. Money is going out of the system

:50:43. > :50:45.on testing which could be better spent on the children

:50:46. > :50:49.who are in the schools now, The Department for Education says

:50:50. > :50:55.the NUT's figures are misleading and under the new formula more

:50:56. > :50:58.than a fifth of the schools budget will be on pupils with extra needs,

:50:59. > :51:01.but John Thomsett is still I feel really uncomfortable

:51:02. > :51:05.about benefiting from that change of structure when other people

:51:06. > :51:08.are getting less. My colleagues across the country

:51:09. > :51:11.will be getting less if we get more, because there is no more money

:51:12. > :51:14.going into the system, A national funding formula,

:51:15. > :51:18.we want one, but we want sufficient funding for everybody,

:51:19. > :51:20.not redistributing the same pot Well, Julian Smith, you saw

:51:21. > :51:28.there a headteacher in York who says he has cut everything he possibly

:51:29. > :51:31.can and that parents and children are now

:51:32. > :51:32.buying their own textbooks, do you accept that many schools

:51:33. > :51:35.are facing a financial crisis? I accept that it is challenging

:51:36. > :51:42.for schools, as it is in all parts of the public services,

:51:43. > :51:46.as a result of the continued difficult situation our economy

:51:47. > :51:54.is in following the Labour years But we do need to continue

:51:55. > :51:57.to be efficient. I mean, I have got three secondary

:51:58. > :52:00.schools in very close proximity in Skipton,

:52:01. > :52:02.they are all doing individual ordering, individual organisation

:52:03. > :52:06.of their back offices and their schools and I would

:52:07. > :52:09.like them to do more, more shared opportunities and make

:52:10. > :52:12.more of the money that is available, but the exciting thing

:52:13. > :52:13.about the announcement by Justine Greening is that

:52:14. > :52:18.for schools in North Yorkshire and Yorkshire generally this

:52:19. > :52:22.is a big opportunity. It will mean, as Graham Stuart says,

:52:23. > :52:26.it will mean more money and it is going to mean particularly

:52:27. > :52:29.those rural schools that were underfunded within the formula

:52:30. > :52:33.are getting more money. Let me put that to Louise Haigh,

:52:34. > :52:36.because we hear all the time that historically there hasn't been

:52:37. > :52:39.a level playing field when it comes to the funding of schools

:52:40. > :52:41.and actually something has Firstly let me say it is totally

:52:42. > :52:46.bizarre to hear a Tory MP say he wants to see schools making more

:52:47. > :52:49.of shared services because of course that is what we had when schools

:52:50. > :52:52.were under working in local authorities and as academies

:52:53. > :52:54.and free schools have been brought forward schools have gone away

:52:55. > :52:57.from that so that is why we see more But there are two things

:52:58. > :53:01.here with school funding, firstly, as was said at the beginning of that

:53:02. > :53:04.clip, the new schools funding formula doesn't take into account

:53:05. > :53:07.the 8% rise in costs and pressures from increased pupil numbers,

:53:08. > :53:11.which the National Audit Office has said, basically schools

:53:12. > :53:14.are seeing 8% inflation. Sheffield has historically been

:53:15. > :53:18.underfunded under the current system, so we are going to see quite

:53:19. > :53:27.a significant increase of 5.6% but it is still a real terms cut

:53:28. > :53:31.and that is what the teacher was saying there and that is what

:53:32. > :53:36.Julian's Tory colleague was saying, that the education sector as a whole

:53:37. > :53:40.is seeing a real terms cut. But we are also seeing,

:53:41. > :53:42.as the teacher said at the end there, that it's robbing Peter

:53:43. > :53:44.to pay Paul. Some schools are going

:53:45. > :53:46.to seriously lose out in order for others to benefit

:53:47. > :53:49.and that is fundamentally unfair. We heard this week that more

:53:50. > :53:51.children are being taught The BBC featured a school

:53:52. > :53:54.in Yorkshire where 46 pupils What we need to focus

:53:55. > :53:59.on is outcomes... Are super-sized classes

:54:00. > :54:07.going to be the norm? I don't think they necessarily

:54:08. > :54:10.will be but we need 1.6 million more children in good

:54:11. > :54:13.or outstanding schools, still about a million or more pupils

:54:14. > :54:16.at poor or improving schools and we have to do better,

:54:17. > :54:19.we have got to raise standards and that has to be a focus,

:54:20. > :54:22.and obviously class sizes are important, but we need to focus

:54:23. > :54:24.on the outcomes, and those outcomes have been very,

:54:25. > :54:27.very good since 2010 and we need to keep going and keep pushing

:54:28. > :54:29.for higher standards. I will let you just respond briefly

:54:30. > :54:32.on this, Louise Haigh. Well, clearly the two biggest

:54:33. > :54:36.factors in education and in delivering those outcomes

:54:37. > :54:39.are class sizes and are the quality of teaching, and last year we saw

:54:40. > :54:42.the highest number of teachers leaving the profession

:54:43. > :54:44.because of pressures in the education system

:54:45. > :54:46.and because of the reforms that we have seen over the last

:54:47. > :54:49.two Tory governments. Another subject I'm sure

:54:50. > :54:52.we will come back to during 2017. Let's get some more of the week's

:54:53. > :54:54.political news now. Trudy Scanlon has our

:54:55. > :55:03.round-up in 60 seconds. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says

:55:04. > :55:06.he will not step in to help if his MPs face deselection

:55:07. > :55:08.by their constituency party, Some MPs who do not support

:55:09. > :55:13.the current leadership I do not, as a leader,

:55:14. > :55:19.dictate to interfere MPs have unanimously backed

:55:20. > :55:24.the so called Claudia's Law which will give families greater

:55:25. > :55:30.control of the affairs of missing people such

:55:31. > :55:32.as the Yorkshire chef, The bill was proposed by Thirsk

:55:33. > :55:36.MP Kevin Hollinrake. Filibustering meant

:55:37. > :55:38.Great Grimsby Labour MP Melanie Onn's bill to protect

:55:39. > :55:39.workers' rights post Dewsbury MP Paula Sheriff got

:55:40. > :55:46.a reprimand from the Speaker of the House after barracking

:55:47. > :55:48.the Prime Minister during PMQ's If she were behaving in another

:55:49. > :55:53.public place like this she would probably be subject

:55:54. > :55:56.to anti-social behaviour order. She later tweeted she would never

:55:57. > :55:58.stop fighting with everything You will be glad to hear we do not

:55:59. > :56:09.issue ASBOs for unruly Louise Haigh, when the Red Cross

:56:10. > :56:16.said the NHS was facing a humanitarian crisis,

:56:17. > :56:19.I mean, do you go along with that description,

:56:20. > :56:21.or was it overblown, The fact that we have had

:56:22. > :56:28.the Red Cross coming in to help A departments out is quite

:56:29. > :56:32.embarrassing for our country really, the NHS is our proudest institution

:56:33. > :56:35.and we really are seeing it The cuts that we have been seeing,

:56:36. > :56:44.not just on the NHS, but right across the system and not

:56:45. > :56:47.least on social care do not happen in isolation,

:56:48. > :56:50.they all have a knock-on effect. If you don't receive that care

:56:51. > :56:53.in your home and you can't get in to see your GP,

:56:54. > :56:56.you're going to end up in A in some shape or form and it is not

:56:57. > :56:59.a problem unique to trusts. I think only one in 152 trusts

:57:00. > :57:01.hasn't been in deficit. NHS facing a humanitarian

:57:02. > :57:04.crisis, Julian Smith? The NHS is performing better

:57:05. > :57:06.than at any time in its history, but it doesn't mean that there

:57:07. > :57:09.aren't huge challenges and I think it's really important

:57:10. > :57:15.when we are discussing the NHS to talk about what amazing work

:57:16. > :57:19.it is doing and the good things that are happening and the fact

:57:20. > :57:21.that there are also these challenges and that Tuesday after Christmas,

:57:22. > :57:24.it treated more patients, more A referrals than at any

:57:25. > :57:26.time in its history. Because people can't

:57:27. > :57:28.get in from elsewhere. It is not just people

:57:29. > :57:30.want to go to A They don't want to go

:57:31. > :57:32.there unless they absolutely have to and the cuts elsewhere in the NHS

:57:33. > :57:36.have an impact. The challenges in the NHS are not

:57:37. > :57:39.just to do with money, it is due Since I became an MP in 2010 people

:57:40. > :57:46.are living 12 months longer In terms of social care,

:57:47. > :57:49.many councils say they don't have the budget to be able to care

:57:50. > :57:53.for people in their own homes. That is why the Chancellor made

:57:54. > :57:56.the announcement to allow greater freedoms to introduce higher

:57:57. > :57:59.precepts for social care. The government is putting

:58:00. > :58:02.in significant funds to that and we are trying to get councils,

:58:03. > :58:07.NHS and social care There is more to do but let's not

:58:08. > :58:14.lose sight of the fact that the NHS is performing really well with these

:58:15. > :58:15.significant challenges The NHS is a huge issue and I know

:58:16. > :58:21.it has been discussed already at length on Sunday

:58:22. > :58:23.political programmes today. He is all over the place,

:58:24. > :58:29.on immigration, on a pay cap, it's all gone wrong

:58:30. > :58:31.for him, hasn't it? There were several messages out

:58:32. > :58:35.of the relaunch on Tuesday. I think on immigration clearly

:58:36. > :58:39.there is a big debate to be had, there is a big debate

:58:40. > :58:41.to be had in the country. The Tories don't have a clear

:58:42. > :58:45.immigration policy so I don't think it's fair

:58:46. > :58:48.to suggest the opposition should have a very, very clear

:58:49. > :58:50.one at the moment. We have big questions

:58:51. > :58:52.to answer out of Brexit. Let's be honest, there

:58:53. > :58:55.is going to be a different approach from my London colleagues

:58:56. > :58:58.as there is from our We have different attitudes

:58:59. > :59:02.towards immigration Is Jeremy Corbyn right

:59:03. > :59:06.to suggest that he won't step in where popular Labour MPs,

:59:07. > :59:09.such as Hilary Benn, I don't think Hilary Benn faces any

:59:10. > :59:18.sort of deselection challenge I find it very hard to believe

:59:19. > :59:21.that might be the case, but it is ultimately for members

:59:22. > :59:26.to decide and for my members to decide whether they reselect me

:59:27. > :59:29.as a candidate and it would be quite alarming if the leader

:59:30. > :59:31.is stepping on either side. I think this is a devastating

:59:32. > :59:34.statement that the leader of the Labour Party made

:59:35. > :59:36.to undermine his MPs and this is the final piece of his jigsaw

:59:37. > :59:40.of ensuring his Momentum MPs get selected, and when we put

:59:41. > :59:44.the boundary changes through... I'm sorry, no leader

:59:45. > :59:46.has ever stepped in to This will be the end of moderate

:59:47. > :59:52.MPs, this is a key moment in the Labour Party's parliamentary

:59:53. > :00:00.switch to left wing Labour MPs. If Labour do not perform well

:00:01. > :00:03.in those forthcoming by-elections, Mr Corbyn surely can't carry

:00:04. > :00:09.on, can he? Well, it will be entirely

:00:10. > :00:12.up for Mr Corbyn. I think we are facing

:00:13. > :00:16.a challenging time in Copeland, that's obviously a Leave

:00:17. > :00:17.constituency, that so it will be a very serious test

:00:18. > :00:24.but I have confidence we have strong local candidates and I think

:00:25. > :00:26.that is very important that we do have local candidates in both

:00:27. > :00:29.of those seats and we will be putting our all into making

:00:30. > :00:31.sure that we do win. Thank you both for your thoughts

:00:32. > :00:35.today, to Julian Smith And, as always,

:00:36. > :00:38.we shall now hand back Now, if anyone thought Donald Trump

:00:39. > :00:48.would tone things down after the American election

:00:49. > :00:59.campaign, they may have The period where he has been

:01:00. > :01:03.President-elect will make them think again. The inauguration is coming up

:01:04. > :01:04.on Friday. Never has the forthcoming

:01:05. > :01:06.inauguration of a president been In a moment, we'll talk

:01:07. > :01:10.to a man who knows Mr Trump But first, let's have a look

:01:11. > :01:14.at the press conference Mr Trump gave on Wednesday,

:01:15. > :01:16.in which he took the opportunity to rubbish reports that Russia has

:01:17. > :01:18.obtained compromising information You are attacking our

:01:19. > :01:34.news organisation. Can you give us a chance,

:01:35. > :01:39.you are attacking our news organisation, can you give us

:01:40. > :01:42.a chance to ask a question, sir? As far as Buzzfeed,

:01:43. > :01:48.which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, I think they're

:01:49. > :01:52.going to suffer the consequences. Does anyone really

:01:53. > :01:55.believe that story? I'm also very much of

:01:56. > :01:58.a germaphobe, by the way. If Putin likes Donald Trump,

:01:59. > :02:00.guess what, folks, that's called The only ones that care about my tax

:02:01. > :02:08.returns are the reporters, OK? Do you not think the American

:02:09. > :02:23.public is concerned? The Wiggo, Donald Trump at his first

:02:24. > :02:25.last conference. The Can will he change as President? Because he

:02:26. > :02:30.hasn't changed in the run-up to being inaugurated? I don't think he

:02:31. > :02:33.will commit he doesn't see any point in changing. Why would he change

:02:34. > :02:38.from the personality that just one, as he just said, I just one. All of

:02:39. > :02:40.the bleeding-heart liberals can wail and brush their teeth and say how

:02:41. > :02:45.ghastly that all this, Hillary should have won and so on, but he

:02:46. > :02:48.has got an incredible mandate. Remember, Trump has the House

:02:49. > :02:52.committee has the Senate, he will have the Supreme Court. He has

:02:53. > :02:56.incredible power right now. He doesn't have to listen to anybody. I

:02:57. > :03:00.spoke to him a couple of weeks ago specifically about Twitter, I asked

:03:01. > :03:05.him what the impact was of Twitter. He said, I have 60 million people

:03:06. > :03:09.following me on Twitter. I was able to bypass mainstream media, bypass

:03:10. > :03:13.all modern political convention and talk directly to potential voters.

:03:14. > :03:17.Secondly, I can turn on the TV in the morning, I can see a rival

:03:18. > :03:22.getting all of the airtime, and I can fire off a tweet, for free, as a

:03:23. > :03:26.marketing man he loves that, and, boom, I'm on the news agenda again.

:03:27. > :03:30.He was able to use that magnificently. Twitter to him didn't

:03:31. > :03:41.cost him a dollar. He is going to carry on tweeting in the last six

:03:42. > :03:45.weeks, he was not sleeping. Trump has never had an alcoholic drink a

:03:46. > :03:50.cigarette or a drug. He is a fit by the 70, he has incredible energy and

:03:51. > :03:53.he is incredibly competitive. At his heart, he is a businessman. If you

:03:54. > :03:59.look at him as a political ideologue, you completely missed the

:04:00. > :04:01.point of trouble. Don't take what he says literally, look upon it as a

:04:02. > :04:05.negotiating point that he started from, and try to do business with

:04:06. > :04:09.him as a business person would, and you may be presently surprised so

:04:10. > :04:14.pleasantly surprised. He treats the press and the media entirely

:04:15. > :04:21.differently to any other politician or main politician in that normally

:04:22. > :04:25.the politicians try to get the media off a particular subject, or they

:04:26. > :04:28.try to conciliate with the media. He just comes and punches the media in

:04:29. > :04:35.the nose when he doesn't like them. This could catch on, you know! You

:04:36. > :04:41.are absolutely right, for a start, nobody could accuse him of letting

:04:42. > :04:44.that victory go to his head. You know, he won't say, I will now be

:04:45. > :04:48.this lofty president. He's exactly the same as he was before. What is

:04:49. > :04:52.fascinating is his Laois and ship with the media. I haven't met, and

:04:53. > :04:56.I'm sure you haven't, met a party leader who is obsessed with the

:04:57. > :05:02.media. But they pretend not to be. You know, they state, oh, somebody

:05:03. > :05:09.told me about a column, I didn't read it. He is utterly transparent

:05:10. > :05:13.in his obsession with the media, he doesn't pretend. How that plays out,

:05:14. > :05:17.who knows? It's a completely different dynamic than anyone has

:05:18. > :05:22.seen by. Like he is the issue, he has appointed an unusual Cabinet,

:05:23. > :05:25.that you could criticise in many ways. Nearly all of them are

:05:26. > :05:30.independent people in their own right. A lot of them are wealthy,

:05:31. > :05:33.too. They have their own views. They might not like what he tweaked at

:05:34. > :05:38.3am, and he does have to deal with his Cabinet now. Mad dog matters,

:05:39. > :05:44.now the Defence Secretary, he might not like what's said about China at

:05:45. > :05:48.three in morning - general matters. This is what gets very conjugated.

:05:49. > :05:51.We cannot imagine here in our political system any kind of

:05:52. > :05:54.appointments like this. Using the wouldn't have a line-up of

:05:55. > :05:57.billionaires of the kind of background that he has chosen -- you

:05:58. > :06:02.simply wouldn't have. But that won't stop him saying and reading what he

:06:03. > :06:04.thinks. Maybe it will cause him some internal issues when the following

:06:05. > :06:10.day he has the square rigged with whatever they think. But he's going

:06:11. > :06:17.to press ahead. Are we any clearer in terms of policy. I know policy

:06:18. > :06:20.hasn't featured hugely in this campaign of 2016. Do we have any

:06:21. > :06:27.really clear idea what Mr Trump is hoping to achieve? He has had some

:06:28. > :06:31.consistent theme going back over 25 years. One is a deep scepticism

:06:32. > :06:34.about international trade and the kind of deals that America has been

:06:35. > :06:38.doing over that period. It has been so consistent that is has been hard

:06:39. > :06:41.to spin as something that you say during the course of a campaign of

:06:42. > :06:45.something to get elected. Ultimately, Piers is correct, he

:06:46. > :06:48.won't change. When he won the election committee gave a relatively

:06:49. > :06:53.magnanimous beach. I thought his ego had been sated and he had got what

:06:54. > :06:56.he wanted. He will end up governing as is likely eccentric New York

:06:57. > :07:00.liberal and everything will be fine. In the recent weeks it has come to

:07:01. > :07:03.my attention that that might not be entirely true!

:07:04. > :07:07.LAUGHTER It is a real test of the American

:07:08. > :07:12.system, the Texan bouncers, the foreign policy establishment which

:07:13. > :07:16.is about to have the orthodoxies disrupted -- the checks and

:07:17. > :07:20.balances. I think he has completely ripped up the American political

:07:21. > :07:23.system. Washington as we know it is dead. From his garage do things his

:07:24. > :07:29.way, he doesn't care, frankly, what any of us thinks -- Trump is going

:07:30. > :07:36.to do things his way. If he can deliver for the people who voted for

:07:37. > :07:41.him who fault this disenfranchised, -- who voted for him who felt this

:07:42. > :07:45.disenfranchised. They voted accordingly. They want to see jobs

:07:46. > :07:49.and the economy in good shape, they want to feel secure. They want to

:07:50. > :07:54.feel that immigration has been tightened. If Trump can deliver on

:07:55. > :07:58.those main theme for the rust belt communities of America, I'm telling

:07:59. > :08:01.you, he will go down as a very successful president. All of the

:08:02. > :08:04.offensive rhetoric and the argy-bargy with CNN and whatever it

:08:05. > :08:12.may be will be completely irrelevant. Let me finish with a

:08:13. > :08:14.parochial question. Is it fair to say quite well disposed to this

:08:15. > :08:16.country? And that he would like, that he's up for a speedy

:08:17. > :08:23.free-trade, bilateral free-trade you'll? Think we have to be sensible

:08:24. > :08:27.as the country. Come Friday, he is the president of the United States,

:08:28. > :08:31.the most powerful man and well. He said to me that he feels half

:08:32. > :08:34.British, his mum was born and raised in Scotland until the age of 18, he

:08:35. > :08:38.loves British, his mother used to love watching the Queen, he feels

:08:39. > :08:43.very, you know, I would roll out the red carpet for Trump, let him eat

:08:44. > :08:49.Her Majesty. The crucial point for us as a country is coming -- let him

:08:50. > :08:53.me to Her Majesty. If we can do a speedy deal within an 18 month

:08:54. > :08:57.period, it really sends a message that well but we are back in the

:08:58. > :09:01.game, that is a hugely beneficial thing for this country. Well, a man

:09:02. > :09:08.whose advisers were indicating that maybe he should learn a few things

:09:09. > :09:11.from Donald Trump was Jeremy Corbyn. Yes, MBE. Mr Corbyn appeared on the

:09:12. > :09:15.Andrew Marr Show this morning. -- yes, indeed.

:09:16. > :09:17.If you don't win Copeland, and if you don't win

:09:18. > :09:18.Stoke-on-Trent Central, you're toast, aren't you?

:09:19. > :09:23.Our party is going to fight very hard in those elections,

:09:24. > :09:26.as we are in the local elections, to put those policies out there.

:09:27. > :09:28.It's an opportunity to challenge the Government on the NHS.

:09:29. > :09:31.It's an opportunity to challenge them on the chaos of Brexit.

:09:32. > :09:33.It's an opportunity to challenge them on the housing shortage.

:09:34. > :09:36.It's an opportunity to challenge them on zero-hours contracts.

:09:37. > :09:40.Is there ever a moment that you look in the mirror and think,

:09:41. > :09:44.you know what, I've done my best, but this might not be for me?

:09:45. > :09:46.I look in the mirror every day and I think,

:09:47. > :09:49.let's go out there and try and create a society where there

:09:50. > :09:51.are opportunities for all, where there aren't these terrible

:09:52. > :09:53.levels of poverty, where there isn't homelessness,

:09:54. > :09:56.where there are houses for all, and where young people aren't

:09:57. > :09:58.frightened of going to university because of the debts

:09:59. > :10:01.they are going to end up with at the end of their course.

:10:02. > :10:07.Mr Corbyn earlier this morning. Steve, would it be fair to say that

:10:08. > :10:11.the mainstream of the Labour Party has now come to the conclusion that

:10:12. > :10:14.they just have to let Mr Corbyn get on with it, that they are not going

:10:15. > :10:19.to try and influence what he does. They will continue to try and have

:10:20. > :10:24.their own views, but it's his show, it's up to him, if it's a mess, he

:10:25. > :10:28.has to live with it and we'll have clean hands? For now, yes. I think

:10:29. > :10:30.they made a mistake when he was first elected to start in some cases

:10:31. > :10:35.tweeting within seconds that it was going to be a disaster, this was

:10:36. > :10:38.Labour MPs. They made a complete mess of that attempted coup in the

:10:39. > :10:44.summer, which strengthened his position. And he did, it gave Corbyn

:10:45. > :10:48.the space with total legitimacy to say that part of the problem is,

:10:49. > :10:54.we're having this public Civil War. In keeping quiet, that disappeared

:10:55. > :10:59.as part of the explanation for why Labour and low in the polls. I think

:11:00. > :11:04.they are partly doing that. But they are also struggling, the so-called

:11:05. > :11:08.mainstream Labour MPs, to decide what the distinctive agenda is. It's

:11:09. > :11:12.one of the many differences with the 80s, where you had a group of people

:11:13. > :11:16.sure of what they believed in, they left to form the SDP. What's

:11:17. > :11:20.happening now is that they are leaving politics altogether. That is

:11:21. > :11:24.a crisis of social Democrats all across Europe, including the French

:11:25. > :11:32.Socialists, as we will find out later in the spring. Let Corbyn

:11:33. > :11:34.because then, that's the strategy. There is a weary and sometimes

:11:35. > :11:36.literal resignation from the moderates in the Labour Party. If

:11:37. > :11:39.you talk to them, they are no longer angry, they have always run out of

:11:40. > :11:42.steam to be angry about what's going on. They are just sort of tired and

:11:43. > :11:46.feel that they've just got to see this through now. I think the

:11:47. > :11:50.by-elections will be interesting. When Andrew Marr said, you're toast,

:11:51. > :11:55.and you? I thought, he's never posed! That was right. A quick

:11:56. > :12:00.thought from view? One thing Corbyn has in common with Trump is immunity

:12:01. > :12:08.to bad news. I think he can lose Copeland and lose Stoke, and as long

:12:09. > :12:10.as it is not a sequence of resignations and by-elections

:12:11. > :12:13.afterwards, with maybe a dozen or 20 Labour MPs going, he can still enjoy

:12:14. > :12:19.what. It may be more trouble if Labour loses the United trade union

:12:20. > :12:21.elections. We are in a period of incredible unpredictability

:12:22. > :12:26.generally in global politics. If you look at the way the next year plays

:12:27. > :12:29.out, if for example brags it was a disaster and it starts to unravel

:12:30. > :12:32.very quickly, Theresa May is attached to that, clearly label

:12:33. > :12:36.would have a great opportunity potentially disease that higher

:12:37. > :12:42.ground, and when Eddie the Tories -- Labour would have an opportunity. Is

:12:43. > :12:47.Corbyn the right guy? We interviewed him, what struck me was that he

:12:48. > :12:50.talked about being from, a laughable comparison, but when it is really

:12:51. > :12:55.laughable is this - Hillary Clinton, what were the things she stood for,

:12:56. > :12:59.nobody really knew? What does Trump stand for? Everybody knew. Corbyn

:13:00. > :13:03.has the work-out four or five messages and bang, bang, bang. He

:13:04. > :13:05.could still be in business. Thank you for being with us.

:13:06. > :13:08.I'll be back at the same time next weekend.

:13:09. > :13:10.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.