:00:37. > :00:39.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:40. > :00:42.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:43. > :00:45.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:46. > :00:48.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:49. > :00:55.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:56. > :00:58.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:00:59. > :01:04.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:05. > :01:07.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:08. > :01:10.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:11. > :01:16.Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.
:01:17. > :01:19.Will Yorkshire and Lincolnshire need to punch above its weight
:01:20. > :01:21.to attract Northern Powerhouse investment,
:01:22. > :01:34.with no plans for any elected mayors this year?
:01:35. > :01:37.And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
:01:38. > :01:40.journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
:01:41. > :01:43.relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
:01:44. > :01:47.and their willingness to come to the studio
:01:48. > :01:53.It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
:01:54. > :01:59.and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
:02:00. > :02:03.tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
:02:04. > :02:13.So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
:02:14. > :02:15.She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
:02:16. > :02:18.but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
:02:19. > :02:22.It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
:02:23. > :02:28.from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
:02:29. > :02:37.The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
:02:38. > :02:41.Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
:02:42. > :02:46.The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
:02:47. > :02:50.It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
:02:51. > :02:54.whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
:02:55. > :02:56.That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
:02:57. > :02:58.That's what the House of Commons voted for.
:02:59. > :03:04.He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
:03:05. > :03:11.There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
:03:12. > :03:20.What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
:03:21. > :03:27.I'm not going to get an answer to this.
:03:28. > :03:34.Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
:03:35. > :03:38.front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
:03:39. > :03:44.wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
:03:45. > :03:47.the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
:03:48. > :03:55.questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
:03:56. > :04:02.Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
:04:03. > :04:07.read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
:04:08. > :04:11.four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
:04:12. > :04:17.into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
:04:18. > :04:21.replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
:04:22. > :04:27.have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
:04:28. > :04:32.If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
:04:33. > :04:35.matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
:04:36. > :04:42.that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
:04:43. > :04:47.End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
:04:48. > :04:53.good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
:04:54. > :04:57.is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
:04:58. > :05:02.and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
:05:03. > :05:06.and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
:05:07. > :05:12.point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
:05:13. > :05:17.suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
:05:18. > :05:23.because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
:05:24. > :05:28.But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
:05:29. > :05:34.awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
:05:35. > :05:38.missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
:05:39. > :05:43.comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
:05:44. > :05:49.struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
:05:50. > :05:53.we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
:05:54. > :05:58.missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
:05:59. > :06:02.What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
:06:03. > :06:10.they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
:06:11. > :06:18.work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
:06:19. > :06:23.known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
:06:24. > :06:29.on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
:06:30. > :06:35.would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
:06:36. > :06:40.from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
:06:41. > :06:45.mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
:06:46. > :06:51.as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
:06:52. > :06:55.going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
:06:56. > :07:01.Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
:07:02. > :07:04.Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
:07:05. > :07:08.anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
:07:09. > :07:10.So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
:07:11. > :07:13.to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
:07:14. > :07:16.President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
:07:17. > :07:18.Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
:07:19. > :07:20.instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
:07:21. > :07:24.attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
:07:25. > :07:28.class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
:07:29. > :07:33.from the campaign trail to the White House.
:07:34. > :07:36.Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
:07:37. > :07:45.First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
:07:46. > :07:54.Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
:07:55. > :08:00.I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
:08:01. > :08:05.The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
:08:06. > :08:09.the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
:08:10. > :08:16.From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
:08:17. > :08:41.In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
:08:42. > :08:46.Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
:08:47. > :08:47.The President, who'd criticised the work of
:08:48. > :08:52.the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
:08:53. > :08:55.There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
:08:56. > :09:07.And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
:09:08. > :09:13.the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
:09:14. > :09:20.So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
:09:21. > :09:22.inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
:09:23. > :09:25.in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
:09:26. > :09:41.He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
:09:42. > :09:45.American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
:09:46. > :09:50.parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
:09:51. > :09:55.act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
:09:56. > :10:00.warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
:10:01. > :10:05.Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
:10:06. > :10:10.restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
:10:11. > :10:15.said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
:10:16. > :10:20.threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
:10:21. > :10:25.bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
:10:26. > :10:30.order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
:10:31. > :10:36.the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
:10:37. > :10:39.first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
:10:40. > :10:42.is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
:10:43. > :10:45.he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
:10:46. > :10:47.choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
:10:48. > :10:49.just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
:10:50. > :11:00.he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
:11:01. > :11:07.made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
:11:08. > :11:10.office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
:11:11. > :11:17.integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
:11:18. > :11:22.a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
:11:23. > :11:26.Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
:11:27. > :11:31.the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
:11:32. > :11:36.Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
:11:37. > :11:42.act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
:11:43. > :11:53.oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
:11:54. > :11:58.or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
:11:59. > :12:04.in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
:12:05. > :12:08.unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
:12:09. > :12:16.called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
:12:17. > :12:25.creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
:12:26. > :12:29.institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
:12:30. > :12:33.at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
:12:34. > :12:39.prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
:12:40. > :12:42.something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
:12:43. > :12:46.consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
:12:47. > :12:53.president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
:12:54. > :12:57.so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
:12:58. > :13:05.institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
:13:06. > :13:10.argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
:13:11. > :13:18.involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
:13:19. > :13:24.with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
:13:25. > :13:29.stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
:13:30. > :13:33.world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
:13:34. > :13:39.have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
:13:40. > :13:43.power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
:13:44. > :13:49.foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
:13:50. > :13:53.around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
:13:54. > :13:59.may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
:14:00. > :14:04.and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
:14:05. > :14:07.Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
:14:08. > :14:13.more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
:14:14. > :14:17.tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
:14:18. > :14:22.still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
:14:23. > :14:31.Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
:14:32. > :14:39.clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
:14:40. > :14:43.in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
:14:44. > :14:49.relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
:14:50. > :14:55.president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
:14:56. > :14:59.critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
:15:00. > :15:04.of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
:15:05. > :15:11.anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
:15:12. > :15:17.I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
:15:18. > :15:21.will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
:15:22. > :15:27.State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
:15:28. > :15:32.him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
:15:33. > :15:38.successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
:15:39. > :15:42.already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
:15:43. > :15:49.you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
:15:50. > :15:52.institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
:15:53. > :15:55.millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
:15:56. > :16:04.is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
:16:05. > :16:13.an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
:16:14. > :16:17.tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
:16:18. > :16:22.The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
:16:23. > :16:26.said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
:16:27. > :16:30.front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
:16:31. > :16:34.solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
:16:35. > :16:37.emphasis is going to change American life, including American
:16:38. > :16:46.International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
:16:47. > :16:51.mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
:16:52. > :16:55.national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
:16:56. > :17:01.inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
:17:02. > :17:03.White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
:17:04. > :17:09.difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
:17:10. > :17:17.protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
:17:18. > :17:22.no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
:17:23. > :17:25.the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
:17:26. > :17:32.think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
:17:33. > :17:38.you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
:17:39. > :17:47.senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
:17:48. > :17:52.administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
:17:53. > :17:55.how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
:17:56. > :18:01.a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
:18:02. > :18:06.bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
:18:07. > :18:13.also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
:18:14. > :18:19.election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
:18:20. > :18:27.and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
:18:28. > :18:31.mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
:18:32. > :18:36.trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
:18:37. > :18:39.world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
:18:40. > :18:44.leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
:18:45. > :18:49.businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
:18:50. > :18:54.debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
:18:55. > :18:58.the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
:18:59. > :19:04.reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
:19:05. > :19:08.lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
:19:09. > :19:12.walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
:19:13. > :19:16.from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
:19:17. > :19:21.that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
:19:22. > :19:25.between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
:19:26. > :19:29.important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
:19:30. > :19:33.lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
:19:34. > :19:38.you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
:19:39. > :19:55.the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
:19:56. > :20:00.Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
:20:01. > :20:06.Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
:20:07. > :20:14.hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
:20:15. > :20:17.him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
:20:18. > :20:21.a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
:20:22. > :20:27.why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
:20:28. > :20:33.States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
:20:34. > :20:36.of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
:20:37. > :20:40.Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
:20:41. > :20:46.to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
:20:47. > :20:54.economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
:20:55. > :20:58.Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
:20:59. > :21:03.herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
:21:04. > :21:07.Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
:21:08. > :21:12.the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
:21:13. > :21:17.dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
:21:18. > :21:23.another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
:21:24. > :21:26.American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
:21:27. > :21:32.including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
:21:33. > :21:36.anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
:21:37. > :21:40.important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
:21:41. > :21:43.preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
:21:44. > :21:50.and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
:21:51. > :21:55.deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
:21:56. > :21:59.and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
:22:00. > :22:03.are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
:22:04. > :22:07.into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
:22:08. > :22:15.ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
:22:16. > :22:17.inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
:22:18. > :22:24.didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
:22:25. > :22:28.are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
:22:29. > :22:34.easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
:22:35. > :22:38.United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
:22:39. > :22:46.that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
:22:47. > :22:49.State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
:22:50. > :22:54.creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
:22:55. > :22:57.and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
:22:58. > :23:03.create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
:23:04. > :23:07.word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
:23:08. > :23:12.America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
:23:13. > :23:17.that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
:23:18. > :23:21.His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
:23:22. > :23:30.abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
:23:31. > :23:35.to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
:23:36. > :23:38.realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
:23:39. > :23:45.on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
:23:46. > :23:50.days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
:23:51. > :23:53.Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
:23:54. > :23:57.So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
:23:58. > :23:59.perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
:24:00. > :24:01.claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
:24:02. > :24:04.wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
:24:05. > :24:06.To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
:24:07. > :24:08.to her opponents it was full of contradictions
:24:09. > :24:12.Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
:24:13. > :24:17.There are speeches, and there are speeches.
:24:18. > :24:21.Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
:24:22. > :24:24.to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
:24:25. > :24:27.This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
:24:28. > :24:30.in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
:24:31. > :24:35.It should give British companies the maximum
:24:36. > :24:39.operate within European markets and let European businesses do
:24:40. > :24:47.She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
:24:48. > :25:03.We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
:25:04. > :25:05.Do we have any of our future negotiating
:25:06. > :25:10.As the European Parliament voted for its new
:25:11. > :25:17.president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
:25:18. > :25:19.Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
:25:20. > :25:22.it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
:25:23. > :25:25.of free zone or tax haven, I
:25:26. > :25:32.The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
:25:33. > :25:34.rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
:25:35. > :25:39.We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
:25:40. > :25:48.that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
:25:49. > :25:51.Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
:25:52. > :25:56.leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
:25:57. > :25:59.The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
:26:00. > :26:03.For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
:26:04. > :26:06.I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
:26:07. > :26:09.an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
:26:10. > :26:15.I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
:26:16. > :26:19.There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
:26:20. > :26:24.Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
:26:25. > :26:26.There will, at the end of this deal process,
:26:27. > :26:29.so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
:26:30. > :26:33.We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
:26:34. > :26:34.if this process started with democracy last June,
:26:35. > :26:39.We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
:26:40. > :26:45.Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
:26:46. > :26:47.watching it in a small room somewhere?
:26:48. > :26:55.Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
:26:56. > :26:57.somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
:26:58. > :26:59.with the European Union didn't work, we would move
:27:00. > :27:01.into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
:27:02. > :27:05.I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
:27:06. > :27:12.The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
:27:13. > :27:15.his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
:27:16. > :27:18.Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
:27:19. > :27:24.Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
:27:25. > :27:32.Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
:27:33. > :27:43.Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
:27:44. > :27:44.anticipating since the referendum result,
:27:45. > :27:45.particularly around the
:27:46. > :27:50.I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
:27:51. > :27:53.willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
:27:54. > :27:57.Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
:27:58. > :28:00.have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
:28:01. > :28:02.Although some business people on the slopes speculated
:28:03. > :28:04.about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
:28:05. > :28:22.We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
:28:23. > :28:25.but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
:28:26. > :28:29.Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
:28:30. > :28:38.People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
:28:39. > :28:43.four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
:28:44. > :28:47.referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
:28:48. > :28:50.nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
:28:51. > :28:55.have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
:28:56. > :28:58.millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
:28:59. > :29:05.However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
:29:06. > :29:10.parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
:29:11. > :29:14.triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
:29:15. > :29:21.what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
:29:22. > :29:26.policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
:29:27. > :29:31.don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
:29:32. > :29:35.legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
:29:36. > :29:41.amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
:29:42. > :29:49.it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
:29:50. > :29:53.will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
:29:54. > :29:57.too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
:29:58. > :30:01.migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
:30:02. > :30:06.to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
:30:07. > :30:11.you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
:30:12. > :30:14.we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
:30:15. > :30:18.Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
:30:19. > :30:22.amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
:30:23. > :30:27.whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
:30:28. > :30:36.When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
:30:37. > :30:40.can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
:30:41. > :30:46.But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
:30:47. > :30:52.this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
:30:53. > :30:57.Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
:30:58. > :31:01.of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
:31:02. > :31:05.when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
:31:06. > :31:12.whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
:31:13. > :31:18.on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
:31:19. > :31:23.that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
:31:24. > :31:28.it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
:31:29. > :31:34.three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
:31:35. > :31:38.when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
:31:39. > :31:44.Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
:31:45. > :31:56.another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
:31:57. > :32:01.voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
:32:02. > :32:07.and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
:32:08. > :32:16.a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
:32:17. > :32:21.three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
:32:22. > :32:27.believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
:32:28. > :32:32.that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
:32:33. > :32:38.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:39. > :32:44.priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
:32:45. > :32:49.remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
:32:50. > :32:54.economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
:32:55. > :32:59.Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
:33:00. > :33:02.Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
:33:03. > :33:10.come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
:33:11. > :33:17.remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
:33:18. > :33:21.ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
:33:22. > :33:28.jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
:33:29. > :33:33.Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
:33:34. > :33:42.Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
:33:43. > :33:49.made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
:33:50. > :33:55.position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
:33:56. > :33:59.you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
:34:00. > :34:02.including being a member of the single market, without
:34:03. > :34:06.responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
:34:07. > :34:14.is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
:34:15. > :34:19.that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
:34:20. > :34:24.member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
:34:25. > :34:30.Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
:34:31. > :34:35.negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
:34:36. > :34:44.Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
:34:45. > :34:54.if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
:34:55. > :35:03.unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
:35:04. > :35:08.It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
:35:09. > :35:15.Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
:35:16. > :35:18.position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
:35:19. > :35:23.the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
:35:24. > :35:29.union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
:35:30. > :35:35.catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
:35:36. > :35:42.accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
:35:43. > :35:48.free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
:35:49. > :35:53.ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
:35:54. > :35:57.protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
:35:58. > :36:02.free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
:36:03. > :36:09.get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
:36:10. > :36:14.NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
:36:15. > :36:19.she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
:36:20. > :36:24.customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
:36:25. > :36:30.Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
:36:31. > :36:39.I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
:36:40. > :36:43.that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
:36:44. > :36:47.that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
:36:48. > :36:50.so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
:36:51. > :36:52.You're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:53. > :36:54.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:55. > :36:57.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
:36:58. > :37:00.when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
:37:01. > :37:02.about the government's new industrial strategy and that
:37:03. > :37:05.crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
:37:06. > :37:09.First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:37:10. > :37:12.Hello, you're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and
:37:13. > :37:13.Lincolnshire. Coming up today:
:37:14. > :37:17.With hopes for elected mayors on the ropes
:37:18. > :37:20.how will the region fight for its fair share
:37:21. > :37:28.We've seen no investment within Knottingley for as long as I
:37:29. > :37:32.can remember, now, you know, there's just a decline, decline
:37:33. > :37:38.And is President Trump a winner or a wazzock?
:37:39. > :37:41.We've been to Lincolnshire to find out if a local
:37:42. > :37:54.Our guests today are Clive Betts, Labour MP for Sheffield South-east,
:37:55. > :37:56.and and Andrew Percy, Conservative MP for Brigg and Gould,
:37:57. > :37:59.who is also the Northern Powerhouse Minister.
:38:00. > :38:04.It's the first time you've come back to us
:38:05. > :38:07.Is yours a world now of chauffeur driven
:38:08. > :38:10.limos, flunkies, ambassadors receptions?
:38:11. > :38:11.I mean, Ferrero Rocher are just everywhere.
:38:12. > :38:16.Don't give us the product placement! If only that was the case.
:38:17. > :38:18.No, but it's an interesting role I've taken on, and
:38:19. > :38:21.I particularly like the local focus, I get to announce a lot of
:38:22. > :38:26.investment in our area and am also lucky because Clive is our selective
:38:27. > :38:29.chairman who keeps us in line and scrutinises us,
:38:30. > :38:32.so it's a Yorkshire Minister getting scrutinised...
:38:33. > :38:34.Or a Yorkshire and Lincolnshire Minister
:38:35. > :38:37.getting scrutinised by a Yorkshire Labour MP, so that's good.
:38:38. > :38:43.Clive Betts, do you think people you represent, do you think they
:38:44. > :38:45.understand this concept of the Northern Powerhouse?
:38:46. > :38:46.probably not.
:38:47. > :38:49.I mean, I think it's a name they may have heard about, they're
:38:50. > :38:52.not sure what it means, what it's going to change.
:38:53. > :38:55.In the end what matters to them is not whether there
:38:56. > :38:58.is a minister with that title or even whether there is a mayor
:38:59. > :39:00.elected to do the work, it's whether there's more jobs,
:39:01. > :39:02.whether their wages and conditions are better,
:39:03. > :39:04.whether transport's better, where there are more skills programmes.
:39:05. > :39:07.They are the things that really matter to people
:39:08. > :39:09.see those come to fruition of course.
:39:10. > :39:12.Well, we'll talk about some of those things in a moment but of
:39:13. > :39:14.course it was David Cameron and George
:39:15. > :39:17.course it was David Cameron and George Osborne's big project,
:39:18. > :39:19.A proposal that would attract investment, boost the
:39:20. > :39:25.economy and enable big northern cities to rival the success of
:39:26. > :39:27.On the other side of the Pennines are
:39:28. > :39:30.Manchester and Liverpool, electing their own Metro mayors this
:39:31. > :39:32.year, securing millions of extra government money, but with no such
:39:33. > :39:35.elections in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire this year, how will we
:39:36. > :39:40.fight our corner? Here's Richard Edwards.
:39:41. > :39:45.and people here are used to fighting their corner.
:39:46. > :39:48.Out in the town, though, it's been a bruising 12 months
:39:49. > :39:54.For more than three years the government has been
:39:55. > :39:57.talking about giving the economy a bit more push by setting up
:39:58. > :39:59.something called a Northern Powerhouse.
:40:00. > :40:04.But for parents and coaches at the boxing club in the
:40:05. > :40:07.Miners' Welfare, it's an idea that has yet to hit home.
:40:08. > :40:12.If I was to say to you the words Northern Powerhouse,
:40:13. > :40:16.To be honest it's a term, I've never heard of it,
:40:17. > :40:19.I've never heard of it at all until tonight.
:40:20. > :40:23.So if I was to say to you there's been a big push by the
:40:24. > :40:25.government, it began under the Cameron Osborne
:40:26. > :40:28.governments to boost the
:40:29. > :40:31.I think I've never heard of it, I've never heard
:40:32. > :40:35.of it before as I say, I've never seen any finances come in this
:40:36. > :40:38.Club Steward Paul Green has heard of the powerhouse plan,
:40:39. > :40:41.but wants politicians to call time on the talking and get
:40:42. > :40:45.We've seen no investment within Knottingley for as long as I
:40:46. > :40:48.can remember, now, you know, there's just a decline, decline,
:40:49. > :40:55.People here have been hit by a series of body blows.
:40:56. > :40:57.Ferrybridge C power station has gone,
:40:58. > :41:01.And council cuts are beginning to bite as the local pool
:41:02. > :41:08.So do business leaders feel a bit brighter about the powerhouse plans
:41:09. > :41:11.to help hard-hit areas by building and linking
:41:12. > :41:20.It is that if you get the rail system working
:41:21. > :41:23.better and you get conductivity with the road and with other public
:41:24. > :41:32.transport services and the whole system works better, and that's not
:41:33. > :41:35.just good for you and I, getting to work, also from an external
:41:36. > :41:38.business investment point of view, that starts to make this area look
:41:39. > :41:41.like a compelling place to put a new business in.
:41:42. > :41:43.30 miles down the road in Doncaster, it's said the
:41:44. > :41:53.This building will be home to a national college
:41:54. > :41:56.This building will be home to a national college which will supply
:41:57. > :41:58.engineers for the planned high-speed rail link between London and
:41:59. > :42:02.The size of the investment that is behind us, you
:42:03. > :42:05.can see, and the numbers of the guys that we are putting through the
:42:06. > :42:07.building, it's obvious to see that, you know,
:42:08. > :42:09.it's work available for these local guys,
:42:10. > :42:10.and it's on the doorstep.
:42:11. > :42:13.When you look at the amount of money that's been spent
:42:14. > :42:15.in the south in infrastructure compared to the north, it pales into
:42:16. > :42:19.We're going to be a very large voice shouting out and
:42:20. > :42:22.bringing it forward, the north, because it's the right economy.
:42:23. > :42:24.And we've got the skills here to do it.
:42:25. > :42:28.Back in Knottingley, there is no immediate lift
:42:29. > :42:30.from the high-speed rail plans, but people are hoping
:42:31. > :42:32.the knock-on effect isn't too far down the line.
:42:33. > :42:34.For children like the ones behind me here, living in the
:42:35. > :42:37.economy of Knottingley, it's much more than aspiration.
:42:38. > :42:40.The Northern Powerhouse success or failure will
:42:41. > :42:44.have a direct bearing on their futures.
:42:45. > :42:47.Andrew Percy, are you surprised to hear many
:42:48. > :42:50.people don't know what the Northern Powerhouse is, and they certainly
:42:51. > :43:00.Well I don't expect people to have read
:43:01. > :43:03.the Northern Powerhouse strategy ought to have looked at the Northern
:43:04. > :43:06.I actually don't think that's important, I'm not in the slightest
:43:07. > :43:09.bit bothered by that was what is important is that people understand
:43:10. > :43:12.and see the investment that is happening, so we have
:43:13. > :43:14.?2.8 billion of improvements coming to these new rail franchises.
:43:15. > :43:16.You only have to look just down the road from
:43:17. > :43:19.Knottingley at the M62, big investments in improving the road
:43:20. > :43:22.network there, so there are all sorts of projects, ?13 billion of
:43:23. > :43:25.funds, projects across the north which are all part of our investment
:43:26. > :43:27.So people see that, and actually if you
:43:28. > :43:29.look at somewhere like Knottingley, unemployment's been falling,
:43:30. > :43:32.unemployment is at record low levels in many parts of the north,
:43:33. > :43:34.we've got massive amounts of foreign investment
:43:35. > :43:36.we've got massive amounts of foreign investment coming in,
:43:37. > :43:41.But people don't need to be au fait with the Northern Powerhouse
:43:42. > :43:43.strategy, what's important is they see the results
:43:44. > :43:47.But there's still this huge disparity when it comes to the north
:43:48. > :43:51.I mean, London's got a ?15 billion railway Crossrail to
:43:52. > :43:55.You can't even get the Hulme to Selby railway electrified.
:43:56. > :43:56.The Hulme to Selby rail line is getting new
:43:57. > :43:59.trains on it which are going to be using part electric...
:44:00. > :44:01.They don't need to be, the same trains
:44:02. > :44:03.whether we electrify the line or not, will be
:44:04. > :44:07.These brand-new trains which are trains which are built in the north,
:44:08. > :44:09.serving northern routes and northern networks,
:44:10. > :44:10.so actually we are seeing significant improvements there.
:44:11. > :44:13.But actually you're quite right, this is a decades long issue
:44:14. > :44:16.of the divide between the north and the south, and
:44:17. > :44:18.you know, that's why we're seeing investment like HS2,
:44:19. > :44:20.we've got plans for a high-speed rail across
:44:21. > :44:21.the north, east-west, as well,
:44:22. > :44:24.and Transport For The North will be delivering on that, and
:44:25. > :44:26.actually just tomorrow I'm going to be announcing tens of millions of
:44:27. > :44:28.pounds of new investment from the government
:44:29. > :44:31.into the Leeds and Hull areas... Across our whole region, actually,
:44:32. > :44:36.but I'll be doing Leeds and Hull, so there's lots of money coming in.
:44:37. > :44:40.Clive Betts, last week, we reported on the fact that the
:44:41. > :44:43.planned elections for a new mayor for the Sheffield city region have
:44:44. > :44:47.Now, how will that affect your area when it comes to
:44:48. > :44:48.tapping into the Northern Powerhouse?
:44:49. > :44:55.Well, I think it's going to delay it, I think it is,
:44:56. > :44:58.certainly, we can all see we need to devolve more powers to the
:44:59. > :45:03.large cities and economic hinterlands in the north.
:45:04. > :45:04.It is also important government does have a
:45:05. > :45:07.transfer of spending from the south to the north.
:45:08. > :45:09.Despite what Andrew's just said, billions
:45:10. > :45:12.of pounds more are spent in London and
:45:13. > :45:15.the south-east then spent in our more depressed northern areas.
:45:16. > :45:19.Nevertheless the reality is that Manchester and Liverpool will elect
:45:20. > :45:22.their mayors this year and what then will happen in my view is
:45:23. > :45:25.if there is money to go into northern products they will have a
:45:26. > :45:27.better claim on them, they will have a better argument
:45:28. > :45:29.for them than Sheffield and Leeds, so I'm
:45:30. > :45:32.disappointed that we aren't going ahead in May, and it's really
:45:33. > :45:38.important that we sort ourself out so there are elections for elective
:45:39. > :45:41.mayors in our region in May 2018, to make
:45:42. > :45:46.So the big Yorkshire cities are the poor relations of the
:45:47. > :45:51.Well, no, we're still going to be investing and we still are and this
:45:52. > :45:53.announcement I'm going to be making tomorrow's
:45:54. > :45:56.going to be in areas that
:45:57. > :45:58.don't have devolution deals, but Clive's quite right, actually.
:45:59. > :45:59.From a government point of view, from a
:46:00. > :46:02.more importantly investment point of view, from this may way going to
:46:03. > :46:05.have a single figure it in Manchester, a single figure in
:46:06. > :46:07.Liverpool with substantial powers, powers that are being taken from
:46:08. > :46:10.Westminster and some extra cash, so when investors are looking
:46:11. > :46:12.at where to come, it's going to be much
:46:13. > :46:15.easier for them to deal with that one person exercising planning
:46:16. > :46:18.powers over a big area in Manchester and Liverpool than here,
:46:19. > :46:20.but unfortunately it's a failure within our
:46:21. > :46:27.region for us to get an agreement on this
:46:28. > :46:29.and you know, people keep coming up with crazy proposals for
:46:30. > :46:35.John Trickett, Labour's devolution supremo,
:46:36. > :46:38.Yorkshire wide Mayor, and many other people
:46:39. > :46:42.One thing that would have been helpful is if
:46:43. > :46:45.first of all John had talked to the MPs for
:46:46. > :46:48.We have an arrangement, we have six councils who are committed
:46:49. > :46:51.to going forward to have an elective mayor for their area.
:46:52. > :46:52.Of course, including Chesterfield and Bassetlaw,
:46:53. > :46:55.which aren't within Yorkshire, they're within Derbyshire and
:46:56. > :46:58.Nottinghamshire, they want to be part of the Sheffield city region,
:46:59. > :47:00.because devolution should happen on an economic area
:47:01. > :47:02.because people live in Chesterfield and work in Sheffield,
:47:03. > :47:04.live in Worksop and work in Sheffield,
:47:05. > :47:06.That's how it should work and really,
:47:07. > :47:08.John has really muddied the waters
:47:09. > :47:12.But Yorkshire is now a global brand as a county.
:47:13. > :47:16.What's wrong with a single figurehead for the whole county?
:47:17. > :47:19.Well, the fact is, Tim, what John proposed last week
:47:20. > :47:21.Because it doesn't fit with the legislation.
:47:22. > :47:23.But we've negotiated this really good deal
:47:24. > :47:25.with South Yorkshire which will bring ?1 billion
:47:26. > :47:30.we want to make good on that deal and I would say to any of the
:47:31. > :47:33.leaders of those councils in South Yorkshire if they walk away from
:47:34. > :47:36.that deal then I make it absolutely from a government point of view it
:47:37. > :47:39.will come off the table and that will be the end of the matter.
:47:40. > :47:41.Those powers and that money will not come
:47:42. > :47:45.But actually we also have to accept there are
:47:46. > :47:46.distinct differences within the region
:47:47. > :47:47.and what we're trying to do
:47:48. > :47:51.for these mayoral organisations, these mayoral structures is economic
:47:52. > :47:52.development, is grow economic development.
:47:53. > :47:55.So, South Yorkshire is a very fine fit for that him and
:47:56. > :47:59.That's done, that deal was locked down by government some time ago.
:48:00. > :48:02.So the question is what do we do with
:48:03. > :48:05.So we've got to get east, west and north sorted out,
:48:06. > :48:08.and Clive's absolutely right, when people keep throwing in these
:48:09. > :48:11.grenades which ask us to view things which aren't even legal, it means
:48:12. > :48:13.we're further from getting the powers we want from Westminster
:48:14. > :48:15.and we are putting ourselves even further behind,
:48:16. > :48:18.and I'm afraid Leeds City Council have been engaging in that this
:48:19. > :48:22.week as well with their chief executive also backing a proposal.
:48:23. > :48:24.We're going to have come to this another time.
:48:25. > :48:26.Basically, we want this deal for the Sheffield
:48:27. > :48:28.city Region, or we want this deal, we
:48:29. > :48:31.It's on the table, let's get it and let
:48:32. > :48:34.start spending it to improve jobs and economy in the Sheffield city
:48:35. > :48:37.Let's get more of the week's political news now.
:48:38. > :48:39.Trudy Scanlon has our round-up in 60 Seconds.
:48:40. > :48:42.A question from Boston MP Matt Warman prompted praise from the
:48:43. > :48:45.For the reaction of east coast emergency services to the
:48:46. > :48:53.storm surge which last week threatened people and properties.
:48:54. > :48:55.Rotherham born born education minister Justine Greening
:48:56. > :48:58.when she announced that Doncaster and Bradford
:48:59. > :48:59.would join the town as
:49:00. > :49:02.They are places where we think young people could do
:49:03. > :49:06.a lot better but we need to work hard if we going to get a change on
:49:07. > :49:09.the ground, and that means working not just inside schools on helping
:49:10. > :49:11.them improve but also helping outside of schools.
:49:12. > :49:15.Philip Davies, the Shipley MP, challenged the
:49:16. > :49:17.equality and human rights commission to get
:49:18. > :49:18.its own house in order on the
:49:19. > :49:21.pay gap between groups of staff working there.
:49:22. > :49:23.And back with praise from the Prime Minister.
:49:24. > :49:25.This time, for Lincoln MP Karl McCartney's
:49:26. > :49:29.Can I join my honourable friend in congratulating
:49:30. > :49:33.Lincoln city on their victory last night,
:49:34. > :49:36.and can I say, I think it was a fitting tribute
:49:37. > :49:41.to Graham Taylor that they won that match.
:49:42. > :49:45.So, what was the big story of the week for you, Andrew Percy?
:49:46. > :49:46.I think the Prime Minister's Brexit speech.
:49:47. > :49:49.I was really surprised actually, pleasantly surprised just how many
:49:50. > :49:51.constituents e-mailed me and got in touch afterwards to say that
:49:52. > :49:55.week the way that she delivered it and what she proposed was absolutely
:49:56. > :49:57.spot on, so that was clearly the big story of the week.
:49:58. > :50:01.Well yes, Brexit speech, you know, but actually the
:50:02. > :50:06.bigger story will come when government can't deliver what it
:50:07. > :50:08.promises in two years, impossible to do a full deal
:50:09. > :50:12.The other one is, the ongoing problems in the health
:50:13. > :50:15.service and social care, there is a crisis there which isn't being
:50:16. > :50:18.Lack of money, people waiting on trolleys,
:50:19. > :50:21.longer and longer, and it is going to be a severe
:50:22. > :50:22.winter so heaven knows what
:50:23. > :50:25.happens if we have a really cold spell in the next few weeks.
:50:26. > :50:27.Will you vote to trigger Article 50 when
:50:28. > :50:31.I have said that to my constituents, it was an
:50:32. > :50:33.advisory referendum, but we ask the British people's
:50:34. > :50:38.And if Parliament, you know, it's unlikely,
:50:39. > :50:40.but if Parliament decides that Brexit shouldn't go ahead, what
:50:41. > :50:44.Well, I mean lots of people speculate that there will
:50:45. > :50:50.I think it would be very difficult if
:50:51. > :50:52.Parliament, particularly House of Commons will be a
:50:53. > :50:55.problem but if the House of Lords wants to be a problem, can you
:50:56. > :50:58.An unelected house thwarting the will of the British
:50:59. > :51:03.I don't think it will happen but in that situation I think many
:51:04. > :51:05.experts and many commentators would suggest there would be a general
:51:06. > :51:09.But a lot more debates to come, it's not just the Article 50
:51:10. > :51:12.and then the discussions happen, it's what comes out of those
:51:13. > :51:15.discussions and what sort of agreement are we left with, indeed,
:51:16. > :51:17.at the end of two years, are we left with any agreement?
:51:18. > :51:19.I mean, there's some real challenges that, so it's
:51:20. > :51:22.not as simple as voting for and against Article 50, the real
:51:23. > :51:26.Do you expect a big Labour rebellion?
:51:27. > :51:28.You know, Labour MPs saying they will vote not
:51:29. > :51:31.There will be some Labour MPs, particularly in
:51:32. > :51:33.constituencies which voted to remain, where the MP voted to remain
:51:34. > :51:35.themselves and argued for it as their constituents did,
:51:36. > :51:39.I'm very clear, I argued for the remain campaign, I campaigned
:51:40. > :51:43.very hard for it but in the end I know my constituents, the majority
:51:44. > :51:45.of them voted to leave and I will respect that
:51:46. > :51:49.Now, the most controversial US president in living memory has been
:51:50. > :51:52.sworn into office, so how will Donald Trump's presidency effect
:51:53. > :51:56.You may think it's too early to tell but last year
:51:57. > :51:59.one Lincolnshire MP said that her constituents may well
:52:00. > :52:05.So, we're asking today will President Trump be judged
:52:06. > :52:17.You will be so proud of your president, you will be so proud.
:52:18. > :52:21.Grimsby-based journalist Nadia Hussain has followed Donald Trump's
:52:22. > :52:23.road to the White House with interest.
:52:24. > :52:27.As a woman and a Muslim, she says she was shocked by some of
:52:28. > :52:29.Mr Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail.
:52:30. > :52:33.He's saying it in front of millions, and so people are now
:52:34. > :52:36.feeling justified to feel that way so the already sexist people are
:52:37. > :52:38.thinking that's great, I can say these things
:52:39. > :52:40.because he served them come and people that are already
:52:41. > :52:48.Islamophobic or have fear of the other are now feeling oh, that's
:52:49. > :52:52.wonderful, if the most powerful man in the world can say them, I can
:52:53. > :52:55.Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete
:52:56. > :52:57.shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.
:52:58. > :53:00.It was that pledge to ban Muslims from entering the United
:53:01. > :53:04.States that led to a petition over here calling for Mr Trump himself to
:53:05. > :53:10.There was even a debate in parliament where a Lincolnshire MP
:53:11. > :53:19.used a word rarely heard in the corridors of power.
:53:20. > :53:22.And if he met one or two of my constituents in one of
:53:23. > :53:25.the many excellent pubs in my constituency, then they may well
:53:26. > :53:30.tell him that he is a wazzock for dealing with this issue in this way.
:53:31. > :53:32.So, is that really how the good people
:53:33. > :53:34.of Louth would describe the
:53:35. > :53:38.Just like the rest the world, Donald
:53:39. > :53:44.I don't know too much about him but from
:53:45. > :53:46.what I know I think he's sexist, his
:53:47. > :53:49.he's racist, I think is going to cause a
:53:50. > :53:52.lot of chaos but at the end of the
:53:53. > :53:59.He's coming from a fresh viewpoint,
:54:00. > :54:03.They're fed up with the political system as indeed some people are
:54:04. > :54:05.over here, and the wind of change is
:54:06. > :54:10.blowing right across the world, isn't it?
:54:11. > :54:13.The way he speaks, he's got no respect, I don't think, for
:54:14. > :54:17.I mean, people get in a panic saying, oh, Brexit,
:54:18. > :54:19.Trump, the world's coming to an end. No it hasn't.
:54:20. > :54:22.It's taken rather an amusing turn where nobody was
:54:23. > :54:27.One Yorkshire MP was at Friday's presidential
:54:28. > :54:30.inauguration as part of his role as the UK representative
:54:31. > :54:36.creating jobs, creating growth, creating stability, and I'm sure he
:54:37. > :54:40.will quickly recognise that stability comes with stable
:54:41. > :54:44.partnerships and stable military affairs.
:54:45. > :54:46.All therefore I think that he will quickly come to realise
:54:47. > :54:50.that Nato plays an important role in
:54:51. > :54:53.growing the GDP of a country like ours as much as anybody else's.
:54:54. > :54:55.And the waters of the United 's states rule...
:54:56. > :55:00.My friend just went recently to America.
:55:01. > :55:03.She whether the hijab, and she was worried about all of the
:55:04. > :55:06.story she's been hearing, you know, from how people have been treated.
:55:07. > :55:09.She literally said she has never been treated with so much respect
:55:10. > :55:10.and politeness from the American people.
:55:11. > :55:14.she almost wanted to cry at how generous people were.
:55:15. > :55:16.I know that they aren't everywhere, I
:55:17. > :55:19.know so much injustice is happening everywhere not just an hour,
:55:20. > :55:21.but they are the stories I want to remember.
:55:22. > :55:25.So, it's fair to say the jury's out on President Trump, but
:55:26. > :55:28.love him or loathe him, this is a man who will dominate global
:55:29. > :55:37.So what impact do we think Donald Trump's presidency will have
:55:38. > :55:42.I don't know come he's actually a great unknown in terms of making
:55:43. > :55:52.Some of the steps shown so the racism and sexism, you know, I
:55:53. > :55:58.certainly feel uncomfortable with. certainly feel uncomfortable with.
:55:59. > :56:01.Two things really worrying me are the Nato issue, his and lukewarm
:56:02. > :56:05.support for Nato at a time when the tin is showing aggression in army
:56:06. > :56:10.and the Ukraine I think is a real worry. The other big issue is
:56:11. > :56:15.climate change. In, at the very time that the United States and, -- China
:56:16. > :56:18.have managed to reach an agreement, President Trump comes in denying
:56:19. > :56:24.climate change exists stop I think this is a real worry for the future
:56:25. > :56:27.Trump? I think it has been Trump? I think it has been
:56:28. > :56:32.interesting watching liberal outrage in this country about Trump. If you
:56:33. > :56:37.tolerant it is, it is actually in tolerant it is, it is actually in
:56:38. > :56:38.content to Europe where fascists, neo-Nazis and other extreme
:56:39. > :56:44.right-wing parties get elected. America isn't the case normally,
:56:45. > :56:47.this is a tolerant country. He has said many things on the campaign
:56:48. > :56:50.Trail I don't want to associate with but I don't think it has been fairly
:56:51. > :56:55.covered here, it is being presented as a dope was a great servers are
:56:56. > :56:59.and some of the things he's been saying and why, you get to see that
:57:00. > :57:01.of people feel left behind and have of people feel left behind and have
:57:02. > :57:05.legitimate concerns will be people that voted for John, and we
:57:06. > :57:11.shouldn't pooh-pooh them, because we think Trump got funny hair. If you
:57:12. > :57:14.look at the campaign, the commentators talking about the rust
:57:15. > :57:18.belt, people worried about jobs, immigration, being let down by
:57:19. > :57:23.politicians. That could have been Yorkshire. This is true. They are
:57:24. > :57:28.left behind groups in our own industrial areas who now gets
:57:29. > :57:32.part-time jobs, jobs through agencies come as contract, all the
:57:33. > :57:37.ways people get employed these days. I think Donald Trump given these
:57:38. > :57:41.philosophies will not do anything to improve his condition. The idea of
:57:42. > :57:46.putting a wall round the state and trade protections, that won't solve
:57:47. > :57:49.the US problems, anything that will solve problems here either. I think
:57:50. > :57:53.we have the bigger real high blood at our society and a look at how
:57:54. > :57:56.much some people are paying themselves increasingly at the top
:57:57. > :57:59.of our society and then look at the conditions at the Beeb at the
:58:00. > :58:02.bottom. As a country we have a responsibility to actually reward
:58:03. > :58:07.people better for some very important jobs like care workers,
:58:08. > :58:11.for example. They get paid the minimum amount of money for doing a
:58:12. > :58:17.really important job for our society. What are the parallels for
:58:18. > :58:20.Brexit? Yes, and no. I think the same demographic of people certainly
:58:21. > :58:24.were drawn to Brexit that were drawn the drug but eventually the scope
:58:25. > :58:28.the service I have looked at some polling focus groups done Brexit
:58:29. > :58:30.boat is in the UK and actually they were more free-trade than people who
:58:31. > :58:34.voted remain here whereas the job voted remain here whereas the job
:58:35. > :58:38.message is very anti-free trade so I think it is a lazy comparison that
:58:39. > :58:41.grab activators they want us to be grab activators they want us to be
:58:42. > :58:46.global, buy into what the Prime Minister said on Monday about 's
:58:47. > :58:49.free trade, and what we have said is that we have to be careful with
:58:50. > :58:54.strong, the element of protectionism, but that is no 1's
:58:55. > :58:57.interest. His half British, and he said he was a trade deal with
:58:58. > :58:59.Britain, so let's focus on the positives, because he is the
:59:00. > :59:04.president whether anybody like him or not. Absolutely. We have to
:59:05. > :59:07.challenge him in areas, and nothing have to challenge him to be a full
:59:08. > :59:14.member of Nato because United States is crucially important than our
:59:15. > :59:19.there. We can't carry on for the next four years with a president
:59:20. > :59:23.denying climate change and not entering into the negotiations. And
:59:24. > :59:27.also green energy, and at an industry in our world. Also a
:59:28. > :59:29.massive industry in the States, a huge job creation there. Let's see
:59:30. > :59:33.how his industry view changes when he gets pressure from members
:59:34. > :59:39.relying on that. Clive is absolutely right. This is where we have a role
:59:40. > :59:46.in Britain, because we are seen as a natural Ali, we have a special
:59:47. > :59:49.relationship. -- natural ally. Our prime ministers should negotiate
:59:50. > :59:55.well in the hope that some of the issues around Nato and trade we can
:59:56. > :59:57.have a positive impact on him. History of cores will be the judge
:59:58. > :00:05.of all political careers including both of yours. That is assuming we
:00:06. > :00:07.have one! Let me know when it starts! Thank you both. Clive Betts
:00:08. > :00:08.and Andrew Percy. have to do this. Thank you to you
:00:09. > :00:11.both. What exactly is the government's
:00:12. > :00:22.industrial strategy? Will ministers lose their supreme
:00:23. > :00:25.court battle over Brexit, and, Well, tomorrow Theresa May
:00:26. > :00:37.is launching the government's industrial strategy -
:00:38. > :00:41.and to talk about that we're joined by the Business Minister,
:00:42. > :00:52.Margot James - welcome to the show. When you look at what has already
:00:53. > :00:59.been released in advance of the Prime Minister's statement, it was
:01:00. > :01:04.embargoed for last night, it's not really an industrial strategy, it's
:01:05. > :01:07.just another skills strategy, of which we have had about six since
:01:08. > :01:15.the war, and our skills training is among the worst in Western Europe?
:01:16. > :01:19.There will be plenty more to be announced tomorrow in what is really
:01:20. > :01:23.a discussion document in the preparation of an industrial
:01:24. > :01:30.strategy which we intend to launch properly later in the year. Let's
:01:31. > :01:37.look at skills. You are allocating 117 of funding to establish
:01:38. > :01:41.institutes of technology. How many? The exact number is to be agreed,
:01:42. > :01:46.but the spend is there, and it will be on top of what we are doing to
:01:47. > :01:50.the university, technical colleges... How many were lit bio
:01:51. > :01:57.create? We don't know exactly, but we want to put them in areas where
:01:58. > :02:03.young people are performing under the national average. But if you
:02:04. > :02:08.don't know how many, what is the basis of 170 million? That is the
:02:09. > :02:11.amount the Treasury have released. The something that is very
:02:12. > :02:17.important, we are agreed we need to devote more resources to vocational
:02:18. > :02:24.training and get it on a par with academic qualifications. I looked on
:02:25. > :02:28.the website of my old university, the University of Glasgow, the
:02:29. > :02:34.Russell group universities. Its spending budget every year is over
:02:35. > :02:41.600 million. That's one University. And yet you have a mere 170 million
:02:42. > :02:47.foreign unspecified number of institutes of technology. It hasn't
:02:48. > :02:52.got equality with the academics? You have to remember that just as you
:02:53. > :02:55.have quoted figures from Glasgow University there are further
:02:56. > :03:03.education colleges all over the country. The government is already
:03:04. > :03:10.spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But also, we are going to be adding...
:03:11. > :03:15.This is new money that is all to the good, because we are already
:03:16. > :03:19.spending a lot. We have already created 2 million more apprentices
:03:20. > :03:24.since 2010. That many are not in what we would call the stem skills,
:03:25. > :03:30.and a lot come nowhere near what the Dutch, Germans and Austrians would
:03:31. > :03:35.have. I'm not clear how another 170 million would do. You said it is
:03:36. > :03:39.more than skills. In what way is this industrial strategy different
:03:40. > :03:49.from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did before? It's different because
:03:50. > :03:51.it is involving every single government department, and bringing
:03:52. > :03:54.together everything that government does in a bid to make Britain more
:03:55. > :04:00.competitive as it disengages from the European Union. That is what the
:04:01. > :04:04.last Labour government did. They will much more targeted
:04:05. > :04:09.interventions. Under the Labour government, the auto industry got
:04:10. > :04:13.some benefit. A few more sectors were broached under the coalition
:04:14. > :04:17.government. This is all about communities all over the country,
:04:18. > :04:23.some of whom have fallen behind in terms of wage growth and good jobs.
:04:24. > :04:30.The Prime Minister has already announced 2 billion as a research
:04:31. > :04:33.and development priority in specific technologies, robotics, artificial
:04:34. > :04:39.intelligence, medical technology, satellites... So you are doing what
:04:40. > :04:44.has been done before. There is nothing new about this. Wait until
:04:45. > :04:49.tomorrow, because there will be some new strands emerging. It is the
:04:50. > :04:54.beginning of the dialogue with industry and with workers, and the
:04:55. > :04:58.responses will be invited up until April. That will inform a wider
:04:59. > :05:05.strategy that goes beyond skills. I have moved on to beyond them. I'm
:05:06. > :05:09.slightly puzzled as to how the government knows where to invest in
:05:10. > :05:16.robotics, when it can't even provide the NHS with a decent IT system.
:05:17. > :05:19.Discuss. I have to say I find it bizarre that the government is
:05:20. > :05:24.making an announcement about an amount of money and don't know where
:05:25. > :05:29.it's going. This is typical of all governments over all political
:05:30. > :05:35.shoes, which is total disregard for technical education, so different
:05:36. > :05:41.from Germany, who actually invest in the technological side. Germany has
:05:42. > :05:49.a long history. We want to emulate some of the best of what German
:05:50. > :05:53.companies do. Siemens sponsor primary schools, for example. We
:05:54. > :05:59.want to get a dialogue on with business. We don't want to decide
:06:00. > :06:04.where this money is going. By the way, it was 4.7 billion that the
:06:05. > :06:08.government has agreed to invest in science and research, which is the
:06:09. > :06:13.most significant increase in decades. Can you remind us what
:06:14. > :06:16.happened in Northern Ireland, when the government invested money in
:06:17. > :06:20.state-of-the-art technology for energy? No one needs to be reminded
:06:21. > :06:29.of that, and that is not what we are doing. We are inviting business and
:06:30. > :06:35.industry to advise where that money is best spent. That's very different
:06:36. > :06:38.from government deciding that a particular technology is for the
:06:39. > :06:45.future. The government's chief scientific adviser has determined
:06:46. > :06:49.that we will invest a huge amount in battery technology, which should
:06:50. > :06:56.benefit the electric car industry, and... This is taxpayers' money. Who
:06:57. > :07:01.gets it? Ultimately, business will get it, but often only when there is
:07:02. > :07:11.a considerable amount of private sector finance also drawn in. But
:07:12. > :07:14.who is held to account? Various government departments at local
:07:15. > :07:20.authorities will hold this list to account. A lot of it is about
:07:21. > :07:25.releasing private capital as well. Thank you very much. This week, the
:07:26. > :07:33.Supreme Court, I think we know the ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the
:07:34. > :07:38.expectation is that the judges will say Parliament will have to vote to
:07:39. > :07:41.trigger. Is this all much ado about nothing? Parliament will vote to
:07:42. > :07:46.trigger, and the government will win in the Lords and the Commons by
:07:47. > :07:51.substantial majorities, and it will be triggered? Completely. We've
:07:52. > :07:55.known that. Parliament is voted. Everyone is pretty confident that
:07:56. > :08:00.the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court's decision and say it has
:08:01. > :08:08.to go to MPs. There will be a bit of toing and froing among MPs on
:08:09. > :08:12.amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's slightly car crash interview there.
:08:13. > :08:21.The Lib Dems may throw something in, but we will trigger Article 50 by
:08:22. > :08:23.the end of March. If it also says that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff
:08:24. > :08:29.and Belfast should be picked up, that could complicate matters.
:08:30. > :08:34.Absolutely. That could delay the planned triggering of Article 50
:08:35. > :08:37.before the end of March. Not what they say about the Westminster
:08:38. > :08:43.Parliament, because it is clear that it was. I never understood the
:08:44. > :08:48.furore about that original judgment, because every MP made it clear they
:08:49. > :08:51.wouldn't block it. Even though Diane Abbott was evasive on several
:08:52. > :08:58.fronts, she said they wouldn't block it. You are right, if they give a
:08:59. > :09:02.vote, or give some authorisation for the Scottish Parliament and other
:09:03. > :09:06.devolved assemblies, that might delay the whole sequence. That is
:09:07. > :09:13.the only significant thing to watch out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs
:09:14. > :09:18.May goes to Washington. It will be another movie in the making! I would
:09:19. > :09:22.suggest that she has a tricky line to follow. She has got to be seen to
:09:23. > :09:28.be taking advantage of the fact that there is a very pro-British,
:09:29. > :09:33.pro-Brexit president in the Oval Office, who I am told is prepared to
:09:34. > :09:38.expend political capital on this. But on the other hand, to make sure
:09:39. > :09:49.that she is not what we used to call Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It
:09:50. > :09:52.is very difficult, and who would not want to be a fly on the wall in that
:09:53. > :09:58.meeting! I can't think of anyone in the world who would despise Mr Trump
:09:59. > :10:02.more than Mrs May, and for him, he dislikes any woman who does not look
:10:03. > :10:12.like a supermodel, no disrespected Mrs May. Most of it is actually
:10:13. > :10:17.anti-EU, and I think we should capitalise it. Let's get the Queen
:10:18. > :10:24.to earn her money, roll out the red carpet, invite him to dinner, spend
:10:25. > :10:29.the night, what ever we need... Trump at Balmoral! Here is the
:10:30. > :10:33.issue, because the agenda is, as we heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that
:10:34. > :10:38.this is not an administration that has much time for the EU, EU
:10:39. > :10:43.integration or Germany. I think Germany will be the second biggest
:10:44. > :10:47.loser to begin with. They will not even give a date for Angela Merkel
:10:48. > :10:56.to meet the president. This is an opportunity for Mrs May... It is a
:10:57. > :11:05.huge. It could sideline talks of the punishment beating from Germany. The
:11:06. > :11:11.Trump presidency has completely changed the field on Brexit. Along
:11:12. > :11:15.came Donald Trump, and Theresa May has this incredible opportunity
:11:16. > :11:20.here. Not of her making, but she has played her cards well. To an
:11:21. > :11:25.officially be the EU emissary to Washington, to get some sort of
:11:26. > :11:30.broker going. That gives us huge extra leveraged in the Brexit
:11:31. > :11:35.negotiations. People around the world think Germany as a currency
:11:36. > :11:38.manipulator, that it is benefiting from an underpriced euro, hence the
:11:39. > :11:43.huge surplus it runs of America, and they think it is disgraceful that a
:11:44. > :11:49.country that runs a massive budget surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP
:11:50. > :11:54.on defence, and America runs a massive deficit and needs to spend a
:11:55. > :12:01.lot more. He's going for Germany. And what a massive shift. I think
:12:02. > :12:04.Obama was quite open, in a farewell interview, that he felt closer to
:12:05. > :12:12.Merkel than any other European leader. And Jamie kind of reflected
:12:13. > :12:17.that in our discussion. Yes, that's very interesting discussion. I think
:12:18. > :12:22.she was the last person he spoke to in the White House, Obama. And now
:12:23. > :12:27.you are getting the onslaught from Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery
:12:28. > :12:32.is dangerous, though. Blair was hypnotised by it and was too scared
:12:33. > :12:38.to criticise Bush, because he wanted to be seen in that light, and we
:12:39. > :12:42.know where that led. Cameron similarly with Obama, which
:12:43. > :12:47.presented him with problems, as Obama didn't regard him as his
:12:48. > :12:53.number one pin up in Europe. I would put a note of caution in there about
:12:54. > :12:59.the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. Everything Trump is doing now is
:13:00. > :13:03.different from before, so Mrs May should not have any of these
:13:04. > :13:08.previous relationships in her mind. That is not entirely true. Donald
:13:09. > :13:16.Trump aches to be the new Ronald Reagan. He may be impeached first!
:13:17. > :13:17.He sees her as the new Margaret Thatcher, and that may her leveraged
:13:18. > :13:25.with him. Thank you. We'll be back here at the same time
:13:26. > :13:30.next week, and you can catch up on all the latest political news
:13:31. > :13:32.on the Daily Politics, In the meantime, remember -
:13:33. > :13:37.if it's Sunday,