:01:06. > :01:10.Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven
:01:11. > :01:13.mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.
:01:14. > :01:16.On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: A drop
:01:17. > :01:21.A radical idea is needed to resolve the crisis of
:01:22. > :01:27.We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage
:01:28. > :01:30.what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's
:01:31. > :01:32.In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,
:01:33. > :01:35.has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze
:01:36. > :01:37.and why it doesn't apply to everybody.
:01:38. > :01:39.And with me, the best and brightest political
:01:40. > :01:40.panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia
:01:41. > :01:43.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:44. > :01:46.It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that
:01:47. > :01:48.Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven
:01:49. > :01:55.President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,
:01:56. > :01:58.Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from
:01:59. > :02:02.where refugees are banned from until further notice.
:02:03. > :02:05.Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban
:02:06. > :02:10.on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.
:02:11. > :02:14.Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out
:02:15. > :02:22.But the ban has sparked protests across the US,
:02:23. > :02:25.as people affected and already in the air were detained
:02:26. > :02:29.US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many
:02:30. > :02:35.At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked
:02:36. > :02:39.about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...
:02:40. > :02:42.Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'
:02:43. > :02:48.The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy
:02:49. > :02:51.on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number
:02:52. > :02:53.of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.
:02:54. > :03:08.Downing Street later issued a statement saying:
:03:09. > :03:11.This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why
:03:12. > :03:13.Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's
:03:14. > :03:19.The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip
:03:20. > :03:23.She wants to see the evidence, she wants
:03:24. > :03:28.to understand precisely what the implications are.
:03:29. > :03:31.She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with
:03:32. > :03:35.President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and
:03:36. > :03:38.understand it, and then will respond to that.
:03:39. > :03:41.I think there are times where, you know, there's always
:03:42. > :03:44.pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.
:03:45. > :03:46.The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it
:03:47. > :03:50.We're joined now from North London by the Conservative
:03:51. > :04:02.Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more
:04:03. > :04:11.vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David
:04:12. > :04:14.just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an
:04:15. > :04:18.appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I
:04:19. > :04:25.wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects
:04:26. > :04:29.our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it
:04:30. > :04:36.is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with
:04:37. > :04:40.Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but
:04:41. > :04:44.she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism
:04:45. > :04:50.about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in
:04:51. > :04:52.Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street
:04:53. > :04:55.spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have
:04:56. > :05:00.not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of
:05:01. > :05:05.criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,
:05:06. > :05:08.so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I
:05:09. > :05:12.wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the
:05:13. > :05:17.moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address
:05:18. > :05:21.things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the
:05:22. > :05:29.hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you
:05:30. > :05:32.like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is
:05:33. > :05:35.about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she
:05:36. > :05:39.should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would
:05:40. > :05:42.have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald
:05:43. > :05:45.Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to
:05:46. > :05:49.understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with
:05:50. > :05:53.the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would
:05:54. > :05:57.engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day
:05:58. > :06:03.temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority
:06:04. > :06:08.population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the
:06:09. > :06:12.biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this
:06:13. > :06:18.temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is
:06:19. > :06:23.wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through
:06:24. > :06:26.and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.
:06:27. > :06:30.It can't be right that a president in that position of power can
:06:31. > :06:35.arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already
:06:36. > :06:40.been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach
:06:41. > :06:44.I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by
:06:45. > :06:58.this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?
:06:59. > :07:03.I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by
:07:04. > :07:08.this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are
:07:09. > :07:11.desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by
:07:12. > :07:15.this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only
:07:16. > :07:17.because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it
:07:18. > :07:22.is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do
:07:23. > :07:28.you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is
:07:29. > :07:32.the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work
:07:33. > :07:36.with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was
:07:37. > :07:39.that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our
:07:40. > :07:45.country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is
:07:46. > :07:48.the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate
:07:49. > :07:53.within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,
:07:54. > :07:57.but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,
:07:58. > :08:00.should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a
:08:01. > :08:06.great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of
:08:07. > :08:09.Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the
:08:10. > :08:14.protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I
:08:15. > :08:19.believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have
:08:20. > :08:23.achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a
:08:24. > :08:26.number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am
:08:27. > :08:30.inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege
:08:31. > :08:35.of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places
:08:36. > :08:38.where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the
:08:39. > :08:49.right place. Thank you for joining us.
:08:50. > :08:55.Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald
:08:56. > :08:59.Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,
:09:00. > :09:04.particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going
:09:05. > :09:09.to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on
:09:10. > :09:14.every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa
:09:15. > :09:19.May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time
:09:20. > :09:24.to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.
:09:25. > :09:33.When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and
:09:34. > :09:37.can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying
:09:38. > :09:41.more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing
:09:42. > :09:45.Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going
:09:46. > :09:48.to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's
:09:49. > :09:53.going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It
:09:54. > :09:58.does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special
:09:59. > :10:01.relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven
:10:02. > :10:07.wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.
:10:08. > :10:11.You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for
:10:12. > :10:15.American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what
:10:16. > :10:21.Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why
:10:22. > :10:24.I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has
:10:25. > :10:29.implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was
:10:30. > :10:35.campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real
:10:36. > :10:38.Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the
:10:39. > :10:44.executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a
:10:45. > :10:48.class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day
:10:49. > :10:54.limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,
:10:55. > :10:58.President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.
:10:59. > :11:01.Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in
:11:02. > :11:09.recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with
:11:10. > :11:14.Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned
:11:15. > :11:18.been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not
:11:19. > :11:22.included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in
:11:23. > :11:25.such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal
:11:26. > :11:35.thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It
:11:36. > :11:40.is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge
:11:41. > :11:45.in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue
:11:46. > :11:50.for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree
:11:51. > :11:54.with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa
:11:55. > :12:00.May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is
:12:01. > :12:06.reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is
:12:07. > :12:10.nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with
:12:11. > :12:16.him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time
:12:17. > :12:20.now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee
:12:21. > :12:26.policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as
:12:27. > :12:30.well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this
:12:31. > :12:34.anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she
:12:35. > :12:38.says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.
:12:39. > :12:42.These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does
:12:43. > :12:46.something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her
:12:47. > :12:51.administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical
:12:52. > :12:56.situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in
:12:57. > :13:00.the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.
:13:01. > :13:03.We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless
:13:04. > :13:07.communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for
:13:08. > :13:11.large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't
:13:12. > :13:15.excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via
:13:16. > :13:19.Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible
:13:20. > :13:23.excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than
:13:24. > :13:28.many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with
:13:29. > :13:32.the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of
:13:33. > :13:35.Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is
:13:36. > :13:41.already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't
:13:42. > :13:43.know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky
:13:44. > :13:47.situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first
:13:48. > :13:50.foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit
:13:51. > :13:53.was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,
:13:54. > :13:55.keen for a new trading relationship with the United States
:13:56. > :13:57.in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated
:13:58. > :13:59.the new US President for his "stunning election victory"
:14:00. > :14:02.but might not have intended to be pictured walking
:14:03. > :14:04.through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping
:14:05. > :14:08.Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade
:14:09. > :14:11.will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President
:14:12. > :14:19.told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister
:14:20. > :14:23.said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries
:14:24. > :14:26.increased their defence spending It's been announced
:14:27. > :14:32.that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,
:14:33. > :14:33.with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead
:14:34. > :14:39.to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as
:14:40. > :14:43.Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's
:14:44. > :14:46.going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear
:14:47. > :14:49.to Donald Trump her continued
:14:50. > :14:55.backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over
:14:56. > :14:57.the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer
:14:58. > :15:00.to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues
:15:01. > :15:03.that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former
:15:04. > :15:19.Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's
:15:20. > :15:23.decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the
:15:24. > :15:27.United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which
:15:28. > :15:32.appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He
:15:33. > :15:36.was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to
:15:37. > :15:44.protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven
:15:45. > :15:49.countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if
:15:50. > :15:55.he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just
:15:56. > :15:59.look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela
:16:00. > :16:05.Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,
:16:06. > :16:09.look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all
:16:10. > :16:14.of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria
:16:15. > :16:19.literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in
:16:20. > :16:22.virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have
:16:23. > :16:28.been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of
:16:29. > :16:32.a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of
:16:33. > :16:37.persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But
:16:38. > :16:41.you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you
:16:42. > :16:45.said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing
:16:46. > :16:51.Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees
:16:52. > :16:59.into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.
:17:00. > :17:03.He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those
:17:04. > :17:08.comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's
:17:09. > :17:13.policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is
:17:14. > :17:16.fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this
:17:17. > :17:26.country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any
:17:27. > :17:30.terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have
:17:31. > :17:35.been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have
:17:36. > :17:40.been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why
:17:41. > :17:43.would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people
:17:44. > :17:47.that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into
:17:48. > :17:53.Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not
:17:54. > :17:56.for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening
:17:57. > :18:02.process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with
:18:03. > :18:06.the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to
:18:07. > :18:10.America, they then go through biometric screening, database
:18:11. > :18:21.screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence
:18:22. > :18:28.agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It
:18:29. > :18:32.is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we
:18:33. > :18:35.have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald
:18:36. > :18:41.Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and
:18:42. > :18:44.then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned
:18:45. > :18:51.he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since
:18:52. > :18:56.you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing
:18:57. > :19:00.you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not
:19:01. > :19:03.asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you
:19:04. > :19:10.take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,
:19:11. > :19:13.of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in
:19:14. > :19:17.terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say
:19:18. > :19:21.it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the
:19:22. > :19:24.world have not been included in this. The point is they have made
:19:25. > :19:30.this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about
:19:31. > :19:36.the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him
:19:37. > :19:41.to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you
:19:42. > :19:45.feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total
:19:46. > :19:50.ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that
:19:51. > :19:54.what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be
:19:55. > :20:01.talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We
:20:02. > :20:07.will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What
:20:08. > :20:13.advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa
:20:14. > :20:17.May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the
:20:18. > :20:21.Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been
:20:22. > :20:26.surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who
:20:27. > :20:30.say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make
:20:31. > :20:33.it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can
:20:34. > :20:38.be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister
:20:39. > :20:43.who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally
:20:44. > :20:48.herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial
:20:49. > :20:53.president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building
:20:54. > :20:57.a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking
:20:58. > :21:02.of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is
:21:03. > :21:07.controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke
:21:08. > :21:12.in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it
:21:13. > :21:15.is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the
:21:16. > :21:19.British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I
:21:20. > :21:23.think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in
:21:24. > :21:28.her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato
:21:29. > :21:33.members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there
:21:34. > :21:38.is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the
:21:39. > :21:42.Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms
:21:43. > :21:50.of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good
:21:51. > :21:53.as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying
:21:54. > :21:58.this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control
:21:59. > :22:01.immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good
:22:02. > :22:06.speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I
:22:07. > :22:09.could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying
:22:10. > :22:16.things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have
:22:17. > :22:20.a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can
:22:21. > :22:24.see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a
:22:25. > :22:28.priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French
:22:29. > :22:33.elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I
:22:34. > :22:36.worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress
:22:37. > :22:43.and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.
:22:44. > :22:47.What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say
:22:48. > :22:51.OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough
:22:52. > :22:57.stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a
:22:58. > :23:01.deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot
:23:02. > :23:06.sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,
:23:07. > :23:11.we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,
:23:12. > :23:16.maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until
:23:17. > :23:19.we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will
:23:20. > :23:23.find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and
:23:24. > :23:28.countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that
:23:29. > :23:32.will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the
:23:33. > :23:36.Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you
:23:37. > :23:40.agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.
:23:41. > :23:45.If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you
:23:46. > :23:50.approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any
:23:51. > :23:55.political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,
:23:56. > :23:59.there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip
:24:00. > :24:04.loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,
:24:05. > :24:08.they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and
:24:09. > :24:13.I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that
:24:14. > :24:15.says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen
:24:16. > :24:21.to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the
:24:22. > :24:26.Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over
:24:27. > :24:30.this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition
:24:31. > :24:35.will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's
:24:36. > :24:39.best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of
:24:40. > :24:45.Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to
:24:46. > :24:54.fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.
:24:55. > :24:58.If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,
:24:59. > :25:02.there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always
:25:03. > :25:09.been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't
:25:10. > :25:14.it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it
:25:15. > :25:18.does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and
:25:19. > :25:20.Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for
:25:21. > :25:22.being with us. It's just gone 11.25,
:25:23. > :25:24.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:25:25. > :25:27.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll
:25:28. > :25:37.be talking to our political panel. You are watching the Sunday
:25:38. > :25:44.politics for Yorkshire and We investigate a drop in care home
:25:45. > :25:52.places and meet one man with the radical solution to the
:25:53. > :25:55.crisis of looking after our elderly Yes, they give money to local
:25:56. > :25:59.authorities but it is the Government through taxation that
:26:00. > :26:01.ought to be caring for the elderly. Yes, it's a slightly shorter,
:26:02. > :26:03.but not less important, Sunday Politics from Yorkshire
:26:04. > :26:05.and Lincolnshire today. I'm joined here in the studio
:26:06. > :26:08.by Diana Johnson, the Labour And from Cleethorpes,
:26:09. > :26:13.the Conservative MP for that It's known as bed blocking -
:26:14. > :26:20.when hospitals can't discharge patients because there is no
:26:21. > :26:24.suitable onward care available. But Sunday Politics has discovered
:26:25. > :26:28.that the number of care home places available across Yorkshire
:26:29. > :26:31.and Lincolnshire has dropped by 5% in the last five years,
:26:32. > :26:34.whilst the our aging Now one man says its time
:26:35. > :26:42.for radical solutions after his father-in-law
:26:43. > :26:44.lived in five different Pat McGuire has spoken out
:26:45. > :26:50.after he and his family chose to find residential care
:26:51. > :26:59.in Beverley, in East for his father-in-law
:27:00. > :27:01.who had dementia. But because of issues surrounding
:27:02. > :27:04.closure and suitability, his father-in-law had to be moved
:27:05. > :27:06.four times after initially settling While we can't ever prove it,
:27:07. > :27:13.we honestly believe that the moves that he had to undergo affected him
:27:14. > :27:18.and made his condition worse. Yes, they give money
:27:19. > :27:20.to the local authorities but it is the Government
:27:21. > :27:24.through taxation that ought to be caring, just as we would expect them
:27:25. > :27:27.to do for small children, the young. We ought to be providing
:27:28. > :27:30.the same level of care from Government
:27:31. > :27:36.for the elderly. Others believe that the way money
:27:37. > :27:39.is distributed within the care sector is vital in assuring that
:27:40. > :27:43.the right services are delivered. Even when the country
:27:44. > :27:48.was better off economically, social care was left
:27:49. > :27:51.at the bottom of the list so it never got the funding
:27:52. > :27:56.But the NHS, struggling as it is at the minute,
:27:57. > :28:03.Spending a bit more on social care relieves the pressure on the NHS,
:28:04. > :28:05.so moving some money from them to us.
:28:06. > :28:08.My personal view is, it's about time the NHS and social
:28:09. > :28:11.Funding issues have been blamed for a number
:28:12. > :28:13.of care homes which have had to close down.
:28:14. > :28:18.Earlier this month, Jeremy Corbyn said a Labour Government
:28:19. > :28:20.would take failing private care homes into public ownership in order
:28:21. > :28:24.The Conservative MP for Beverley and Holderness says
:28:25. > :28:31.What we do not want to do is what the Labour
:28:32. > :28:34.Party wants to do - things like nationalising a failing
:28:35. > :28:35.home with high costs, low numbers of residents
:28:36. > :28:46.The Government is absolutely committed to getting this right.
:28:47. > :28:49.If we look on the ground in Beverley, despite the current
:28:50. > :28:51.problems, in the next few weeks we are going to see
:28:52. > :28:56.over the next year I expect to see a much improved situation
:28:57. > :29:00.In a statement the Department of Health says that it
:29:01. > :29:03.recognises the pressures of an ageing population which is why it
:29:04. > :29:05.announced nearly ?900 million of additional funding for adult
:29:06. > :29:12.It adds that the Prime Minister has made clear this is not just about
:29:13. > :29:18.money and that they are working to find a long-term solution which
:29:19. > :29:21.helps councils learn from each other to raise standards.
:29:22. > :29:24.Back in Beverley, Pat McGuire is not convinced.
:29:25. > :29:29.I can only believe that it is going to get worse.
:29:30. > :29:35.Here in Beverley we have lost or are about to lose
:29:36. > :29:39.over 30% of the beds that dementia patients could be going into
:29:40. > :29:44.There are new homes being built in Beverley but they are
:29:45. > :29:48.extremely expensive and I suspect they will not want to see people
:29:49. > :29:56.that need far greater care then many people who are just frail.
:29:57. > :30:03.This is something I am sure many people watching today will be able
:30:04. > :30:08.to relate to. We have a rising elderly population but fewer care
:30:09. > :30:12.home places. What is the solution's ?900 million has been found to help
:30:13. > :30:17.social care in the next two years but the local Government Association
:30:18. > :30:21.say the shortfall was going to be ?2.6 billion. I think actually that
:30:22. > :30:25.what Mr McGuire was saying about a radical solution to this needs to be
:30:26. > :30:30.lit at. After the Second World War women knew that health care needed a
:30:31. > :30:34.national approach we sat at the National Health Service. I think now
:30:35. > :30:38.the time has come for all the parties to come and think about a
:30:39. > :30:42.national care service is funded through taxation. I think we need to
:30:43. > :30:46.integrate the National Health Service and whatever social care we
:30:47. > :30:52.have committed work for people. This is going to get worse I think that
:30:53. > :30:57.is why action is needed now. Martin Vickers, you heard there an elderly
:30:58. > :31:01.man with dementia who in the last year of his life was in five
:31:02. > :31:06.different care homes. Can you understand why many people say the
:31:07. > :31:09.care sector is in crisis? Of course because people judge the care sector
:31:10. > :31:16.or the health service by the own experience. Politicians can come on
:31:17. > :31:22.TV and say we are putting in the extra resources in, so many
:31:23. > :31:28.brilliant... Judgment is made by personal experience. I do not think,
:31:29. > :31:32.as Graham Stewart was saying on the package, the solution is in effect
:31:33. > :31:37.nationalisation because local authorities have a duty to find a
:31:38. > :31:42.place for someone if a care home causes anyway. Let me put that point
:31:43. > :31:48.to you Diana, Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to take failing care homes
:31:49. > :31:52.into public, nationalising the care industry. I think we need to think
:31:53. > :31:57.about how we do that. He has talked about failing care homes. I want to
:31:58. > :32:00.think about how we provide the kind of level of social care across the
:32:01. > :32:05.country that people rightly should expect. You don't agree with Jeremy
:32:06. > :32:09.Corbyn? That as one bed but I do not think that solves the problem of
:32:10. > :32:12.providing good social care around the country. I want to see about
:32:13. > :32:17.local authorities, my own local authority will have taken ?40
:32:18. > :32:20.million out of adult social care from 2010 to 2020 because of
:32:21. > :32:24.Government cuts. To put it all onto Government cuts. To put it all onto
:32:25. > :32:27.local authorities is wrong and that is why the national Government needs
:32:28. > :32:38.to step up to be played here and save as a country we need to
:32:39. > :32:42.think we provide for our elderly population. The heart of this
:32:43. > :32:44.debate, Martin Vickers, is the fact that many councils say we do not
:32:45. > :32:48.have enough money to deliver social care, do they? I am on record in the
:32:49. > :32:51.House of Commons saying that cuts to cancel budget have reached a tipping
:32:52. > :32:55.point now. In fairness, as Theresa May has said, it is not just a
:32:56. > :33:00.matter of putting resources in, it is ensuring that councils and care
:33:01. > :33:05.home operators use those resources to their best. There are many cases
:33:06. > :33:10.where that is not the case. I do agree that has got to be a solution.
:33:11. > :33:14.Whether you could find a cross-party solution, as Diana was mentioning,
:33:15. > :33:19.in all honesty, I rather doubt. I the Labour Party going to give up on
:33:20. > :33:23.attacking the present Government on the NHS because they have reached
:33:24. > :33:27.some agreement? I rather doubt that. Part of the problem with the NHS at
:33:28. > :33:32.the moment as social care and, I think as you said in your
:33:33. > :33:37.introduction, as bed blocking. There are places for people to move onto
:33:38. > :33:40.after the had been in the NHS. If we can get some agreement around social
:33:41. > :33:45.care, that will help in terms of the NHS and budget and the problems the
:33:46. > :33:49.NHS have at the moment. People are asking to Page 3% more on council
:33:50. > :33:55.tax bills. Should they be paying more than that? -- pay more. That 3%
:33:56. > :34:00.from people who are just about managing is a lot to ask. Nationally
:34:01. > :34:04.the Government needs to consider the fact that in Surrey they can ask
:34:05. > :34:08.their council taxpayers to pay a lot more but they have a bigger council
:34:09. > :34:13.taxpayers, they will get more money from the council taxpayer Demi get
:34:14. > :34:19.an Hull. Poor areas will never be able to provide that level of
:34:20. > :34:22.service we need to see for our elderly population. You represent an
:34:23. > :34:28.area that is not swimming in money, those council tax rises are nowhere
:34:29. > :34:34.near going to cover the extra costs of social care? Note, it is to some
:34:35. > :34:41.extent putting a plaster on a gaping wound. When much more serious
:34:42. > :34:48.surgery is needed. It is a stopgap measure. I recognise the fact that
:34:49. > :34:51.the care sector... We all know about ageing populations and the reasons
:34:52. > :34:57.for this, but people do expect higher standards now. Changes in
:34:58. > :35:01.society mean that the elderly zero longer stay with their families or
:35:02. > :35:09.their extended families in the dying years. -- stay longer. It is the
:35:10. > :35:14.biggest issue, certainly in cost terms that Government over the next
:35:15. > :35:20.decade or two it will have two phase. It is an issue we will come
:35:21. > :35:24.back to. Here is more of this week's political views Split-mac news. --
:35:25. > :35:27.political news. Here's Richard Edwards
:35:28. > :35:29.with our round up in 60 seconds. MPs will debate the Brexit bill for
:35:30. > :35:32.the first time next Tuesday, with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn ordering
:35:33. > :35:35.his MPs to back the bill regardless There have already
:35:36. > :35:42.been resignations. A war of words has broken out over
:35:43. > :35:46.a move to scrap the seven district councils in Lincolnshire and replace
:35:47. > :35:48.them with a unitary authority It is a money-saving exercise
:35:49. > :35:56.but will it be popular? Organisations involved in Jo Cox's
:35:57. > :35:58.national lonliness commission met The late MP was passionate
:35:59. > :36:04.about reducing isolation. The commission which she started
:36:05. > :36:08.to organise before her And while Theresa May was a bit busy
:36:09. > :36:13.across the Atlantic, the campaign to honour the last
:36:14. > :36:16.surviving British dambuster went to Downing Street with some
:36:17. > :36:21.celebrity support. Lincolnshire-born Johnny Johnson
:36:22. > :36:23.was part of the crew that destroyed German dams
:36:24. > :36:39.in World War II. More than 200,000 people have signed
:36:40. > :36:43.that petition. The strength of public feeling there is clear. How
:36:44. > :36:46.will you vote when it comes to Article 50? I have signed that
:36:47. > :36:51.petition as well and I got something happens. I have always been clear I
:36:52. > :36:55.am voting to trigger it. The hard work is going to start once that is
:36:56. > :36:59.triggered and the negotiations. Making sure we get the very best
:37:00. > :37:04.deal we can for the people of the United Kingdom and for my
:37:05. > :37:07.constituency in Hull north. Can you understand why some MPs who
:37:08. > :37:11.majority of remained voters, can you majority of remained voters, can you
:37:12. > :37:14.understand why they would defy the Labour whip and vote against a? This
:37:15. > :37:20.has never really been about the whip, this is about listening to
:37:21. > :37:27.what my constituents said. Most of my constituency wanted to leave. I
:37:28. > :37:30.wanted to stay but I respect that. I do understand that it is difficult
:37:31. > :37:35.for MPs if they come from constituencies that have had a very
:37:36. > :37:38.large remain vote. Absolutely, it is difficult but it is not about the
:37:39. > :37:43.whip for me. It is about listening to the constituents and listening to
:37:44. > :37:46.what they are saying to you. At Prime Minister questions the other
:37:47. > :37:50.day, there was a suggestion from Jeremy Corbyn that the Government
:37:51. > :37:54.will not be protecting workers' rights when we leave the European
:37:55. > :37:57.Union, your neighbouring MP came up with a bill that would do just that.
:37:58. > :38:05.Yet the Conservatives topped it down. I am not in the business of
:38:06. > :38:10.reducing the rights of employees in my constituency but the Prime
:38:11. > :38:14.Minister and other ministers have already made very, very clear that
:38:15. > :38:23.there is no intention of reducing workers' rights. To some extent,
:38:24. > :38:26.Melanie's bill was superfluous. Do you think it was superfluous? I am
:38:27. > :38:31.worried about this. The Government could have supported her bill. The
:38:32. > :38:35.good have showed that in good faith we want all the employment rights
:38:36. > :38:39.people have at work to remain in place. They could have decided, as a
:38:40. > :38:45.gesture of goodwill and good faith, to action in support. Things like
:38:46. > :38:48.protection for agency workers and part-time workers, are you convinced
:38:49. > :38:54.they will be enshrined in UK law when we leave the European Union?
:38:55. > :38:58.Many of the rights we talk about were actually enacted by the British
:38:59. > :39:03.Parliament before they became a European responsibility. I have apps
:39:04. > :39:08.are looking no doubt that the overwhelming majority of
:39:09. > :39:11.Conservatives will support enshrining the existing rules into
:39:12. > :39:16.UK law, which is actually what the great repeal act when it comes
:39:17. > :39:21.forward will do. -- absolutely. What guarantees are you looking for,
:39:22. > :39:25.Diana? The bottom line is I want to make sure people I represent a zero
:39:26. > :39:31.worse off and we leave the European Union. I will be looking for
:39:32. > :39:34.guarantees for industries in Holby able to access the European market.
:39:35. > :39:43.It is about jobs and investment in the city. -- industries and Hull.
:39:44. > :39:47.The great repeal act, when it comes, will be spending a lot of time on
:39:48. > :39:54.that because that is a huge amount to do. A huge amount. -- we will be.
:39:55. > :39:56.You have new industries in your constituency connected with
:39:57. > :40:02.renewables on the Humber. You getting positive messages at that
:40:03. > :40:07.Brexit from them or not? Many of the industries... I most certainly am.
:40:08. > :40:12.My constituents know I have been a big supporter of Brexit for the last
:40:13. > :40:16.40 years. I am totally convinced that the country and my constituents
:40:17. > :40:22.will be better off as soon as we can break three from the heavy-handed
:40:23. > :40:30.Europe, which is might in recession. -- Miert. We do not want to upset
:40:31. > :40:36.those Millwall fans. Thank you to Martin Vickers and Diana Johnson.
:40:37. > :40:41.Welcome back and let's get back to Donald Trump's travel ban
:40:42. > :40:46.on refugees and citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries.
:40:47. > :40:49.Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state
:40:50. > :40:52.visit by President Trump to the UK should not go ahead
:40:53. > :41:04.I think it would be totally wrong for him to be coming here while that
:41:05. > :41:09.situation is going on. He has to be challenged on this. So until the ban
:41:10. > :41:14.is lifted, you don't think he should come? I am not happy about him
:41:15. > :41:19.coming here until the ban is lifted. Look at what is happening with those
:41:20. > :41:24.countries. What will be the long term effect of this on the rest of
:41:25. > :41:29.the world? Is this state visit going to become a matter of huge political
:41:30. > :41:33.debate in this country? It would be anyway, but it is a temporary ban,
:41:34. > :41:37.so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe territory. It will be over by April
:41:38. > :41:42.and he is not due to come until summer. But there are three bands.
:41:43. > :41:47.There is the 90 day ban on people coming from the southern countries.
:41:48. > :41:51.There is the 120 day ban on refugees from anywhere in the world, and
:41:52. > :41:56.there is the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees. So there may still
:41:57. > :42:00.be some bans in place. But bear in mind the number of Syrian refugees
:42:01. > :42:04.and refugees from around the world that President Obama took over his
:42:05. > :42:08.eight years. There were years when it was not even up to 50 Syrian
:42:09. > :42:14.refugees that were taken since the civil war has started. This is an
:42:15. > :42:19.ongoing American policy. 12,500 Syrian refugees have come in the
:42:20. > :42:27.last year. Before that, it was a hundred and sometimes under 50. But
:42:28. > :42:31.they are reasonable numbers now, although not something America
:42:32. > :42:37.couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is discovering that being a president
:42:38. > :42:40.is different from being a business man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn
:42:41. > :42:45.the art of leadership, having been a backbench MP, and has struggled to
:42:46. > :42:49.do it, as we are about to discuss with article 50. With this, you have
:42:50. > :42:54.to dramatise the politics of this, and this is what he has done with
:42:55. > :42:59.that statement. Most controversial ever state visit now? I would
:43:00. > :43:04.imagine so. Even regardless of any opposition from the opposition to
:43:05. > :43:08.trump's physical presence in the streets, the presence of
:43:09. > :43:12.demonstrators will be an international new story. If trump's
:43:13. > :43:16.demands for the details of the visit are quite as extreme and as picky as
:43:17. > :43:20.some of the Sunday papers have suggested, that could also be the
:43:21. > :43:24.source of controversy. What do you have in mind? Isn't he anxious that
:43:25. > :43:28.only certain members of the Royal Family turn up? He doesn't want a
:43:29. > :43:37.one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who would, though! Some people may be
:43:38. > :43:41.sympathetic on that. It is the one subject where he is in line with
:43:42. > :43:46.British opinion. Playing golf in front of the Queen may be a higher
:43:47. > :43:49.priority. We have to be realistic. Given the other people from around
:43:50. > :43:52.the world that the Queen has played host to, like the Chinese president
:43:53. > :43:58.and Saudi kings and the like, we have had a lot worse come to visit
:43:59. > :44:03.than Donald Trump. Brexit - how serious our neighbour's problems on
:44:04. > :44:07.this? Very serious, but they often are with Europe. Labour were splits
:44:08. > :44:13.when we joined in the 70s, and still won general elections, in 1974 and
:44:14. > :44:17.1975. There were all over the place in terms of the single currency.
:44:18. > :44:18.Blair said one thing one day and the opposite the next day. Brown did the
:44:19. > :44:31.same. Brown usually set the opposite of
:44:32. > :44:36.what Blair said! They won landslide because they have the political
:44:37. > :44:38.skills to put all of the pressure on the major government, even though
:44:39. > :44:43.their position on the single currency was the same as major's. It
:44:44. > :44:49.is about with Europe the art of leadership. You have to be a
:44:50. > :44:52.political conjuror, you have to dissemble authoritative leak when
:44:53. > :44:56.you lead a divided party over Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his
:44:57. > :45:02.personal credit cannot dissemble, but he's not an individual person on
:45:03. > :45:07.this. He's leading a split party in danger of falling apart, and you
:45:08. > :45:11.need the skills of a political conjurer. Clearly self-evidently
:45:12. > :45:15.he's not displaying it because we are talking about the chaotic split
:45:16. > :45:19.which will manifest itself in that vote on Article 50. Labour and the
:45:20. > :45:24.SNP and the Lib Dems too I would have thought will all put amendments
:45:25. > :45:30.down to the short Article 50 piece of legislation. Do they have any
:45:31. > :45:34.chance of succeeding? No substantial world is changing amendments. I
:45:35. > :45:39.don't think Theresa May has much to worry about actually. I think if
:45:40. > :45:42.anything the reason she's pushed the legal appeal is that it helps her to
:45:43. > :45:47.have a big chunk of the media and a big chunk of public opinion worrying
:45:48. > :45:52.that the popular will of last year is in danger of being overturned and
:45:53. > :45:57.so even if it was a completely hopeless legal appeal, it generated
:45:58. > :46:01.headlines for a week that as an incumbent Prime Minister trying to
:46:02. > :46:05.execute believe vote suits you politically. I think it is a much
:46:06. > :46:09.bigger problem for Labour, we've already seen some Shadow Cabinet
:46:10. > :46:13.issues in the previous week. You have got to remember it's not just a
:46:14. > :46:20.majority of Labour MPs that want to stay in the European Union, but a
:46:21. > :46:23.majority of Labour constituencies, and a majority of labour macro
:46:24. > :46:28.voters wanted to stay as well so we have three lines of division. One
:46:29. > :46:31.amendment that might get through if it was called, and it is in the
:46:32. > :46:35.hands of the Deputy speaker who will be chairing these debates, and that
:46:36. > :46:39.will be an amendment that said regardless of how the Europeans
:46:40. > :46:44.treat our citizens in Europe, all EU citizens here will be afforded full
:46:45. > :46:53.rights to remain. That might get through. It may indeed and lots of
:46:54. > :46:58.backbench MPs would backpack. We all know there will not be mass
:46:59. > :47:02.deportations, it is not legal, it won't happen, it is simply a
:47:03. > :47:06.negotiating tactic. I agree with those who say you shouldn't be using
:47:07. > :47:11.people as a negotiating tactic, but the reality as it is the EU leaders
:47:12. > :47:15.that are doing that because it's already been offered. The remain as
:47:16. > :47:20.should be attacking the EU governments for not offering that in
:47:21. > :47:24.return. Article 50 is the easy bit for her. I agree with other members
:47:25. > :47:28.of the panel that she will get it through and the court case almost
:47:29. > :47:32.helps her by getting an easy journey through Parliament, then it gets
:47:33. > :47:37.really difficult. All of this has been a preamble and once she begins
:47:38. > :47:42.that nightmarish negotiation, there will be opportunities for a smart
:47:43. > :47:49.opposition to make quite a lot of the turmoil to come. Whether Labour
:47:50. > :47:55.are capable of that, let's wait and see. The divisions in Labour are
:47:56. > :47:59.nightmarish for them but by no means unprecedented. Arguably it was much
:48:00. > :48:04.more complicated in the early 1970s when you had Titans on either side,
:48:05. > :48:13.big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony Benn... Michael Foot, they were all
:48:14. > :48:18.at it. The fundamental issue of in or out, and they won two elections,
:48:19. > :48:23.so you have got to be really clever. But also how money more Labour MPs
:48:24. > :48:26.will resign. We shall find out this week.
:48:27. > :48:29.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday and all
:48:30. > :48:32.I'll be back here on BBC one next week.
:48:33. > :49:06.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:49:07. > :49:21.a free five-a-side tournament that's for everyone.
:49:22. > :49:25.For more information, go to the Get Inspired website.