12/02/2017

:00:41. > :00:44.Commons Speaker John Bercow is accused of compromising his

:00:45. > :00:47.impartiality by revealing he voted Remain in last year's EU referendum.

:00:48. > :00:56.The EU Withdrawal Bill clears its first Parliamentary hurdle.

:00:57. > :00:59.But will the House of Lords be quite so accommodating?

:01:00. > :01:05.Labour's Leader in the Lords joins us live.

:01:06. > :01:10.And we report from Stoke-on-Trent ahead of a crucial by-election

:01:11. > :01:13.later this month, where Ukip is looking to give

:01:14. > :01:15.In the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire,

:01:16. > :01:17."Move over, great crested newts," the government says,

:01:18. > :01:18."our housing needs are more important."

:01:19. > :01:23.Will removing some habitat protection speed up house building?

:01:24. > :01:35.And with me a political panel who frequently like to compromise

:01:36. > :01:41.Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Janan Ganesh.

:01:42. > :01:47.I'll be trying to keep them in order during the course of the programme.

:01:48. > :01:50.So, Commons Speaker John Bercow has insisted his ability

:01:51. > :01:56.to act impartially is not damaged by reports that he voted to Remain

:01:57. > :02:03.The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Speaker Bercow revealed his views

:02:04. > :02:05.in front of an audience of students at Reading University

:02:06. > :02:22.This may not be popular with some people in this audience -

:02:23. > :02:27.I thought it was better to stay in the European Union than not,

:02:28. > :02:30.partly for economic reason, being part of a big trade bloc,

:02:31. > :02:35.and partly because I think we're in a world of power blocs,

:02:36. > :02:37.and I think for all the weaknesses and deficiencies

:02:38. > :02:40.of the European Union, it is better to be part of that big

:02:41. > :02:51.Speaker Bercow speaking at Reading University earlier this month. Does

:02:52. > :02:56.he not care is this I get that impression, he knows perfectly well,

:02:57. > :02:59.it states he has to be particularly -- Parliamentary neural. Whether

:03:00. > :03:04.there are going to be enough votes to force him out, the question, the

:03:05. > :03:09.last speaker wept out with the 20 vote against him. You yes to have

:03:10. > :03:16.the command of the support across the House. There is a Deputy

:03:17. > :03:25.Speaker, waiting, who would be superb. I think even the people who

:03:26. > :03:31.pretend to support Macis have had enough -- Speaker Bercow have had

:03:32. > :03:34.enough of his ways. The reason I ask whether he care, he didn't just tell

:03:35. > :03:39.the students that he voted to Remain, he then gave them a running

:03:40. > :03:45.commentary on all the issues that will be part of the Brexit

:03:46. > :03:48.negotiations, workers' rights, immigration, trade policy, everyone

:03:49. > :03:53.maternity leave got a hat tip from him. He would be a very well

:03:54. > :03:58.prepared Brexit minister if attendance needs a colleague --

:03:59. > :04:03.David Davis needs a colleague. I don't think this story makes his

:04:04. > :04:06.position untenable, what does is the wired pattern of behaviour of

:04:07. > :04:14.excessive candour on his political views, going back years, this is a

:04:15. > :04:21.guy who when the Queen visited Parliament described her as theical

:04:22. > :04:25.lied scope Queen. He had a running argument with David Cameron. We know

:04:26. > :04:35.his views on Brexit, we know his views on Donald Trump. . He has

:04:36. > :04:40.given interviews, none of the views are illegitimate but the candour

:04:41. > :04:44.which they are expressed with is scrupulous. Given Lyndsay Hoyle is a

:04:45. > :04:49.class accuse. He is the Deputy Speaker. And a fairly ready

:04:50. > :04:54.replacement, whether there is more of a movement to say, maybe not

:04:55. > :04:58.force Bercow out but acknowledge he has had a few years in the job and

:04:59. > :05:04.the question of successor ship comes into play. Has he concluded he is

:05:05. > :05:08.untouchable? What I can definitely say, is that he is determined to

:05:09. > :05:12.fight this one out, and not go of his own volition, so if he goes he

:05:13. > :05:19.will have to be forced out. He wants to stay. Which will be tough. It

:05:20. > :05:23.will be tough. Likely as things stand. I would say this, I speak to

:05:24. > :05:27.someone who likes the way he has brought the House of Commons to

:05:28. > :05:30.life, held ministers to account, forced them into explain thing,

:05:31. > :05:34.whenever there is a topical issue you know it will be in the House of

:05:35. > :05:41.Commons. He has changed that. He has. Time has been courageous, Ied a

:05:42. > :05:48.mire the way he has been a speaker. I would say this, during the

:05:49. > :05:51.referendum campaign, he asked me Nick Clegg, and Peter Hitchens to

:05:52. > :05:56.debate Brexit if his constituency. It was a packed out meeting. He

:05:57. > :06:01.chaired it. I said don't you want to join in? He didn't. He showed no

:06:02. > :06:08.desire to join in, he was impartial. He goes out to universities and kind

:06:09. > :06:14.of demyth GCSEs Parliament by speaking to them in a way, he

:06:15. > :06:21.doesn't gets credit for it and stays on after and drinks with them.

:06:22. > :06:26.Sometimes he, you know, it is clearly a mistake to have gone into

:06:27. > :06:29.his views retrospectively on that referendum campaign, I don't think

:06:30. > :06:33.that, did he try and stop Article 50 from being triggered in the House of

:06:34. > :06:37.Commons? That would be a scandal. Even that would be beyond him.

:06:38. > :06:43.Briefly, yes or no, could you imagine Betty Boothroyd behaving

:06:44. > :06:47.like that? Not at all. None of the recent speakers I could imagine

:06:48. > :06:50.doing that. It is good he is different.

:06:51. > :06:55.The bill that will allow the government to trigger Article 50

:06:56. > :06:56.and begin Brexit negotiations was voted through

:06:57. > :07:01.Many MPs were in a difficult position - unsure whether to vote

:07:02. > :07:02.with their conscience, their constituency,

:07:03. > :07:05.Europe, once such a divisive issue for the Conservatives,

:07:06. > :07:08.is now causing major divisions inside the Labour Party.

:07:09. > :07:13.So, let's have a look what happened in a bit more detail:

:07:14. > :07:15.Thanks to academic research carried out since the referendum,

:07:16. > :07:17.we now have estimates of how each individual constituency voted.

:07:18. > :07:23.It's thought that 410 constituencies voted Leave.

:07:24. > :07:31.On Wednesday night, the EU Notification of Withdrawal Bill

:07:32. > :07:33.was voted through by the House of Commons.

:07:34. > :07:42.The bill left the Labour Party divided.

:07:43. > :07:44.Jeremy Corbyn told his MPs to respect the result

:07:45. > :07:46.of the referendum and vote for the government's bill -

:07:47. > :07:50.But 52 Labour MPs defied Mr Corbyn's thee-line whip

:07:51. > :08:06.That's about a fifth of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

:08:07. > :08:08.Of those 52 Labour MPs who voted against the bill,

:08:09. > :08:11.the majority, 45 of them, represent seats that voted Remain.

:08:12. > :08:13.However, seven Labour MPs voted against the Article 50 Bill,

:08:14. > :08:15.even though their constituents voted Leave in the referendum.

:08:16. > :08:17.The Conservative Party were much more united.

:08:18. > :08:20.The vast majority of Tory MPs, 320 of them, voted for the bill.

:08:21. > :08:22.Just one Conservative MP, Ken Clarke, voted against it.

:08:23. > :08:24.His constituency, Rushcliffe in Nottinghamshire, voted Remain.

:08:25. > :08:26.The bill will now go to the House of Lords -

:08:27. > :08:40.peers will start debating it on Monday the 20th of February.

:08:41. > :08:42.Joining me now is Matthew Goodwin, politics professor at

:08:43. > :08:45.He's got a book out next month called

:08:46. > :08:47.Brexit: Why Britain Voted To Leave The European Union.

:08:48. > :08:56.Welcome to the programme. Has Brexit, how you voted in the

:08:57. > :08:59.referendum and your continuing attitudes toward it, is that now

:09:00. > :09:05.becoming the new dividing line in British politics? I think it

:09:06. > :09:08.certainly is contributing to a new dividing line, in western politics

:09:09. > :09:12.more generally, we know over the last ten years, that the old left

:09:13. > :09:17.and right division has been making way for a new division, between

:09:18. > :09:20.essentially social liberals and Conservative, and Brexit was a, an

:09:21. > :09:25.incident a moment that really reflected that new dividing line, so

:09:26. > :09:31.it wasn't just the case that Brexit has cut across Labour's base, it is

:09:32. > :09:36.that dividing line, that deeper division is cutting across social

:09:37. > :09:40.democracies more generally. Is there a possibility, no higher than that,

:09:41. > :09:45.that it will reShane our party politics? I think it is too early to

:09:46. > :09:48.know whether this is a fundamental long-term realignment. If we look at

:09:49. > :09:54.what is happening in local by-election, what is happening at

:09:55. > :10:01.by-elections, pictures a bit mixed but if you look at how some of the

:10:02. > :10:05.Labour vote is responding, I think that potentially reflects the

:10:06. > :10:09.possibility of a terminal decline for the Labour Party, it is going to

:10:10. > :10:13.be incredibly difficult for Labour to win these voters back, these are

:10:14. > :10:17.traditional working class, socially Conservative voters who are leaving

:10:18. > :10:22.the party, don't forget, since the 1997 general election. It is not

:10:23. > :10:27.just because of the referendum. If that was the case, Labour would

:10:28. > :10:30.become more a party of the Metropolitan areas, and less of a

:10:31. > :10:35.party outside of these area, is that what you are saying? What we are S

:10:36. > :10:40.seeing across the west can social democracy that retrenchment into the

:10:41. > :10:45.cosmopolitan, Metropolitan city area, university towns, you can

:10:46. > :10:48.seeing in many European states populist right parties filling the

:10:49. > :10:54.traditional socialist area, why are they doing that? Because they are

:10:55. > :10:58.offering two message, economic and cultural protectionism. Social

:10:59. > :11:01.Democrats are clinging to that economic protectionism but not

:11:02. > :11:05.saying much about migration and multiculturalism and that sort of

:11:06. > :11:08.stuff. Are there deeper forces at work than Jeremy Corbyn? He often

:11:09. > :11:13.gets the blame for what is happening to the Labour Party now, but if you

:11:14. > :11:20.look the way the Greek socialist party has been wiped out. The German

:11:21. > :11:24.Social Democrats are in trouble. The Italian socialist party has lost a

:11:25. > :11:29.referendum. The French socialist are coming close to being wiped out on

:11:30. > :11:33.April 23rd, Labour's problems, are part of a much wider problem of

:11:34. > :11:37.social democracy S Jeremy Corbyn is a surface problem, what I mean by

:11:38. > :11:41.that is you could replace him tosh with another leader, they would

:11:42. > :11:48.still have this fundamental tension within the electorate. They are

:11:49. > :11:50.trying to appeal to two differenter reconcilable groups of voters who

:11:51. > :11:55.think differently about the key issues of the day. It is very

:11:56. > :12:02.difficult for any centre left party now to assemble the kinds of

:12:03. > :12:05.coalitionses we saw in the '90s with Clinton and Blair and Schroeder.

:12:06. > :12:11.Those days are gone. Does that explain why it is now Labour, rather

:12:12. > :12:15.than the Conservatives, historically the party divided over the European

:12:16. > :12:20.Union, does all of that help to explain why its Labour that now

:12:21. > :12:27.seems, disunited over the EU? I think so, I think also that the

:12:28. > :12:30.issue of Brexit, and the EU, is so immatly wrapped up with that issue

:12:31. > :12:35.of immigration, if you look at who has been abandoned Labour since 2015

:12:36. > :12:41.or the late 90s, the one thing those voters share is a rejection of the

:12:42. > :12:45.so-called liberal consensus on EU membership and mass immigration. It

:12:46. > :12:50.is difficult for any Labour lead eer co-bin or Clive Lewis on Dan Jarvis,

:12:51. > :12:54.to bring those voters back unless they are going to move on that

:12:55. > :12:59.cultural terrain. If they are not, they may not go to Ukip, they might

:13:00. > :13:00.go to somewhere more difficult for Labour which is political apathy.

:13:01. > :13:03.Thank you for that. Attention now shifts to the House

:13:04. > :13:06.of Lords where peers will begin scrutinising the EU Withdrawal Bill

:13:07. > :13:09.in just over a week. Brexit Secretary David Davis urged

:13:10. > :13:12.the Lords "to do its patriotic duty" and resist the urge to tinker

:13:13. > :13:14.with the legislation. Former minister Oliver Letwin

:13:15. > :13:16.went one further - mooting the possibility

:13:17. > :13:18.of the abolition of the Lords if it sought to frustrate

:13:19. > :13:20.the bill in any way. Here he is posing the question

:13:21. > :13:28.in the Commons on Thursday. Would he find time, in government

:13:29. > :13:31.time for a debate, should the other place seek to delay beyond the end

:13:32. > :13:34.of March the passage of our accession to Article 50, for this

:13:35. > :13:37.House to discuss the possibility of either the abolition or full-scale

:13:38. > :13:47.reform of the other place? And Oliver Letwin joins

:13:48. > :14:00.me now from Dorset. Welcome back to the programme Mr Let

:14:01. > :14:04.win. Before we come on to the Lord's, can I get your thoughts on a

:14:05. > :14:08.matter that has been making the news this morning and John Bercow's

:14:09. > :14:13.remarks about being a remain voter an giving something of a running

:14:14. > :14:18.commentary on various Brexit issues, has he sqloefr stepped the mark as

:14:19. > :14:26.speaker? -- overstepped the mark. I think this is slightly a fuss about

:14:27. > :14:29.nothing. Every person who thinks about politics will have had some

:14:30. > :14:33.opinion about great matters like Brexit, and I really don't see any

:14:34. > :14:39.particular reason why his opinion shouldn't be known after the fact.

:14:40. > :14:43.I, I was there throughout the five days of the Brexit debate, and I

:14:44. > :14:48.have to say, I thought he was pretty scrupulously fair in the way he

:14:49. > :14:51.handled the House, so, I, I don't really share the view that there is

:14:52. > :14:56.some terrible thing that has been revealed this weekend. Let me come

:14:57. > :15:02.on to what we are here to talk about, which is the Lords. Why have

:15:03. > :15:06.you raised the threat of the abolition of the Lord for doing its

:15:07. > :15:14.job of scrutinising what is coming out the Commons? Well, you know,

:15:15. > :15:19.Andrew, this question of the job of the House of Lords and scrutiny, has

:15:20. > :15:24.to be looked at carefully. There are all sorts of bills that come out the

:15:25. > :15:28.House of Commons which are detailed things that relate to, finance, and

:15:29. > :15:33.expenditure, and the criminal law, and all that sort of thing, and all

:15:34. > :15:37.of that, I admire the work that the House of Lords does, as you say

:15:38. > :15:43.scrutinising and we shouldn't use that word loosely, it means looking

:15:44. > :15:48.carefully at the detail, line by line of complicated legislation,

:15:49. > :15:52.hundreds of Paps in some cases, and spotting, using the considerable

:15:53. > :15:56.expertise many, not all be many of the peers have, in any given field,

:15:57. > :16:00.to identify things where the Commons has got it wrong in the sense that

:16:01. > :16:04.the legislation wouldn't achieve what the Government of the day is

:16:05. > :16:09.seeking to make it achieve. That is a serious proper role for an Upper

:16:10. > :16:13.House and the House of Lords performs it pretty

:16:14. > :16:24.Now this is a very different case. This is a two clause bill. The first

:16:25. > :16:30.clause which is the operative clause says the Prime Minister should go

:16:31. > :16:36.ahead and sign... I understand all that. We haven't got that much time,

:16:37. > :16:43.this is becoming a monologue. There is nothing to scrutinise, Andrew.

:16:44. > :16:47.There were plenty of amendments put before the Commons, none of them got

:16:48. > :16:51.through, it is true. There are eight Labour amendments in the Lords, are

:16:52. > :16:56.you resigned to this bill coming back to the Commons with amendments?

:16:57. > :17:00.No, it should not come back with amendments. There were hundreds of

:17:01. > :17:04.amendments literally put down in the House of Commons, they were all

:17:05. > :17:08.drunk. They were all trying one way or another to derail the process.

:17:09. > :17:15.This is a binary issue, should Theresa May sign the withdrawal or

:17:16. > :17:21.not? What should the Commons do? The Commons has now voted in favour of

:17:22. > :17:29.it. Node do should tolerate and unelected chamber forcing the

:17:30. > :17:33.British people... The people voted in a referendum and the Commons

:17:34. > :17:38.voted. The matter is now signed and sealed and should not be derailed by

:17:39. > :17:43.the House of Lords. On Labour amendment wants confirmation that

:17:44. > :17:46.when it is done, the potential Brexit agreement will be put before

:17:47. > :17:52.parliament before any vote in the European Parliament, that has been

:17:53. > :17:57.an agreed principle, what is wrong with that amendments? The government

:17:58. > :18:00.has already agreed there will be a vote, but actually, what the

:18:01. > :18:05.amendments were seeking was to give the Commons a further vote on

:18:06. > :18:08.whether we actually leave or not. That is already decided. Neither the

:18:09. > :18:14.House of Lords nor anybody else has a right in my view, despite the fact

:18:15. > :18:19.I was a remain, to what the will of the British people. Nobody should

:18:20. > :18:23.think an unelected chamber should now try to change the course of

:18:24. > :18:29.British history by asserting amendments in a very effective on

:18:30. > :18:31.clause bill which says go ahead and trigger Article 50. Are you

:18:32. > :18:35.concerned that amendments by the Lords which would then have to go

:18:36. > :18:42.back to the Commons for consideration, are you concerned

:18:43. > :18:47.that could derail or delay the Prime Minister's timetable for Article 50?

:18:48. > :18:52.Yes, exactly. That would be the result of a prolonged bout of

:18:53. > :18:55.ping-pong between the two houses, or much worse, if the House of Lords

:18:56. > :19:00.failed to give way and the Parliament act had to be used. It

:19:01. > :19:04.would really be intolerable. It is not good for our country. Those of

:19:05. > :19:10.us who voted remain would prefer for that not to happen. The whole

:19:11. > :19:14.country -- it is important for the whole country that this happens in a

:19:15. > :19:19.rapid way and allowing the government free rein to negotiate,

:19:20. > :19:23.that is surely in all our advantages? Deed think any efforts

:19:24. > :19:28.to abolish the House of Lords, an issue you have raised, does that

:19:29. > :19:35.make it easier because your friend David Cameron stuffed the upper

:19:36. > :19:39.chamber with donors, lapdogs and lingerie designers? I was among

:19:40. > :19:43.those who advocated for many years wholesale reform of the House of

:19:44. > :19:48.Lords, to turn it into a serious elected second chamber. I think we

:19:49. > :19:53.should have an upper house which commands legitimacy. This is a

:19:54. > :19:58.second issue. Here we have not got such a House and it seems to be very

:19:59. > :20:01.clear that it should not seek to derail on delay the action which has

:20:02. > :20:06.been mandated by the referendum, agreed by the House of Commons, and

:20:07. > :20:11.what we want to see now is a smooth orderly effect for this bill, so it

:20:12. > :20:17.becomes law and Theresa May can go ahead and negotiate on our behalf.

:20:18. > :20:20.One more question on the process, if the Lords to amend the bill and it

:20:21. > :20:26.goes back to the Commons and the Commons sends these amendments back

:20:27. > :20:33.again, take them out, how long could this ping-pong between the two

:20:34. > :20:37.chambers go on in your experience? It is a very, very interesting and

:20:38. > :20:41.complicated question with the clerks of the two ends of the Palace of

:20:42. > :20:47.Westminster not always agreeing about this. But through certain

:20:48. > :20:50.machinations of slightly changing amendments as they go, in my

:20:51. > :20:54.experience this could carry on for an awful long time if clever people,

:20:55. > :20:57.and there are plenty of clever people in the House of Lords, want

:20:58. > :21:01.to do that and that is precisely why I think we should not tolerate it.

:21:02. > :21:04.Oliver Letwin, thank you for joining us from Dorset.

:21:05. > :21:09.Joining me now is Labour's Leader in the House of Lords, Angela Smith.

:21:10. > :21:15.The Commons passed this bill without any amendments... There were

:21:16. > :21:20.changes, the government did concede a couple of points. But the

:21:21. > :21:25.amendments did not go through. Does that put pressure on the Lords to do

:21:26. > :21:29.the same? I think the Lords always feels under pressure to do the right

:21:30. > :21:35.thing. When I heard Oliver Letwin, I did not know whether to laugh or

:21:36. > :21:41.cry. We will not frustrate, we will not wreck, we will not sabotage. We

:21:42. > :21:45.will do what David Davis said was our patriotic duty. We will

:21:46. > :21:48.scrutinise the bill. We have at amendments from the Labour Party. We

:21:49. > :21:52.will look at those. It depends on the government response if we vote

:21:53. > :21:56.on those. There could be amendments asking the Commons to look again.

:21:57. > :22:02.That is normally what we do. It is not the wrong thing to do. But if

:22:03. > :22:06.you do this and make amendments, it then goes back to the Commons. If

:22:07. > :22:10.the Commons rejects the Lords' amendments, what do you think will

:22:11. > :22:16.happen? I do not see any extended ping-pong at all. It is perfectly

:22:17. > :22:21.legitimate. We are not talking about the outcome of negotiations, we are

:22:22. > :22:24.talking about the process. The process of engaging with Parliament

:22:25. > :22:28.and reporting to Parliament. It would be totally responsible for

:22:29. > :22:31.Parliament to say, off you go, Theresa May, have two years of

:22:32. > :22:35.negotiation and come back and talk to us at the end. The has to be a

:22:36. > :22:39.process where the government can use the expertise of parliament to get

:22:40. > :22:45.this right. But if you do put in some amendments, it has to go back

:22:46. > :22:48.to the Commons, they may well say they don't want those amendments and

:22:49. > :22:53.it may go back to the Lords, could that at the very least delay the

:22:54. > :22:59.Prime Minister's Brexit timetable? I don't think so. She said the end of

:23:00. > :23:02.March. Time has been built in for all the normal processes. I think

:23:03. > :23:06.Oliver Letwin and others are getting a bit overexcited. This is the

:23:07. > :23:10.normal process. Unless the government get things right the

:23:11. > :23:14.first time every time, the has to be this kind of process. These are

:23:15. > :23:19.reasonable amendments. This is a Labour amendment we are talking

:23:20. > :23:32.about here, you want a vote in the UK Parliament before any

:23:33. > :23:36.vote in the European Parliament if and when the Brexit deal is done,

:23:37. > :23:39.the Commons and the Lords get to vote on it first. But the government

:23:40. > :23:42.I think have already agreed to that so what is the point? It needs to be

:23:43. > :23:45.on the face of the bill. It is over well if the government have agreed

:23:46. > :23:49.it. Lord dubs had an agreement about child and look what happened to

:23:50. > :23:54.that. Does not sound as if you would go to the wire on that? It is

:23:55. > :23:59.important it is not just about the vote at the end, you have the

:24:00. > :24:05.ongoing engagement. If it is going to be a bad deal, we need to know

:24:06. > :24:10.long before we get to that stage? Is it something you would hold out for?

:24:11. > :24:15.I don't know yet. It is about how the House of Lords votes, Labour do

:24:16. > :24:18.not have a majority, we never had a majority in the House of Lords when

:24:19. > :24:24.we were in government. It is wrong to suggest that we cannot debate

:24:25. > :24:30.these issues... I don't think anyone is suggesting that. They are. It is

:24:31. > :24:33.not unfair to ask the government to ask the House of Commons to look

:24:34. > :24:37.again to look at those issues if that is what the House of Lords

:24:38. > :24:42.decides. Bit of the House of Commons says we looked, we are sticking with

:24:43. > :24:47.what we voted for, we rejected every amendment by at least 30 votes on

:24:48. > :24:51.all occasions, the Lords then have to buckle, is that what you are

:24:52. > :24:55.saying? Some point I think it is clear the House of Commons have to

:24:56. > :24:59.have its say. I think it is inconceivable that having had a

:25:00. > :25:04.referendum, which was not overwhelming, but it was a clear

:25:05. > :25:07.result, the House of Lords has no intention of sabotaging that but

:25:08. > :25:11.there are things which are not good about the process that we think

:25:12. > :25:15.could be improved. We have not just have the result of the referendum

:25:16. > :25:21.which voted to leave, but we have had the will of the Commons that

:25:22. > :25:28.passed this legislation by a majority of 372. And I am not

:25:29. > :25:32.contesting that for a second! Could you cite a precedent for the upper

:25:33. > :25:37.house amending a bill which passed by 372 votes in the Commons? Quite

:25:38. > :25:39.other things will come to the House of Lords with big majorities from

:25:40. > :25:44.the Commons and quite often the amendments we get, with that then

:25:45. > :25:50.forward and the government sees it could do better. Though not

:25:51. > :25:52.necessarily saying the government has got things wrong, but they could

:25:53. > :25:58.do things better. That happens time and time again and it is not

:25:59. > :26:03.unusual. If you were seen to thwart the referendum result and the vote

:26:04. > :26:07.in the Commons, the elected chamber of parliament, is the threat of

:26:08. > :26:11.abolition hanging over you? I think that is really ridiculous and

:26:12. > :26:14.absolute nonsense. We are not tying to what the decision of the House of

:26:15. > :26:18.Commons, we are trying to do better. It is a bit rich of the government

:26:19. > :26:23.and Oliver Letwin to complain about getting things through in time when

:26:24. > :26:28.the House of Commons spent -- the government spent three months trying

:26:29. > :26:31.to debate this issue. There have been some strong questions put to

:26:32. > :26:34.the government from the House of Lords on all sides. I don't know if

:26:35. > :26:43.the amendments have been passed or not. I think we have a good case for

:26:44. > :26:51.the government to get debate the point. If a traditional MP like

:26:52. > :26:54.Oliver Letwin is calling for the abolition of the hereditary and

:26:55. > :26:58.appointed chamber, and the Labour person like yourself was trying to

:26:59. > :27:04.defend that, that would not be a sustainable position, I would

:27:05. > :27:06.suggest! We saw this with the Strathclyde report as well, this is

:27:07. > :27:09.a government like no other. It is the first Conservative government in

:27:10. > :27:15.history not to have an automatic majority. They do not like challenge

:27:16. > :27:20.or scrutiny. But you get my point, Labour cannot go to the wire in

:27:21. > :27:23.defending and an elected second chamber, can it? Actually, Labour

:27:24. > :27:26.can go to the wire in saying the government does not get it right

:27:27. > :27:33.every time. House of Lords is going to normal processes and people like

:27:34. > :27:37.Oliver Letwin are really getting a little bit over excited, and people

:27:38. > :27:44.who have been anonymously briefing. Who has been anonymously briefing? I

:27:45. > :27:47.don't know, they are anonymous! I understand people want to make

:27:48. > :27:51.amendments, that is the role of the House of Lords, but can I just for

:27:52. > :27:54.the avoidance of doubt, is it still your case that whatever amendments

:27:55. > :28:00.to make, whatever may go back and forward, it is not your intention to

:28:01. > :28:05.stop Article 50 being triggered by the end of March? I have been saying

:28:06. > :28:09.that, exactly that for months and months and months. It is

:28:10. > :28:12.inconceivable that an unelected House will thwart the will of the

:28:13. > :28:16.House of Commons and a referendum on this issue. But that does not mean

:28:17. > :28:21.we will be bullied by Oliver Letwin and others. But the triggering will

:28:22. > :28:26.happen by the end of March? I very much suspect so unless Theresa May

:28:27. > :28:29.has second thoughts, I suspect that will happen. Thank you.

:28:30. > :28:31.Now, just because it's parliamentary recess next week

:28:32. > :28:35.There are two by-elections round the corner -

:28:36. > :28:37.one in Copeland, and another in Stoke-on-Trent Central

:28:38. > :28:39.where the former Shadow Education Secretary,

:28:40. > :28:41.Tristram Hunt, vacated his seat to take up a role

:28:42. > :28:44.as Director of the Victoria Albert Museum in London.

:28:45. > :28:47.But Labour are facing a fight to hold onto the constituency

:28:48. > :28:53.Seconds away, Ukip's new leader has stepped into the ring

:28:54. > :28:55.as their candidate in a by-election bout to see

:28:56. > :29:02.At the last election Ukip came second to Labour here

:29:03. > :29:07.But now they are confident they can land a knockout blow,

:29:08. > :29:14.because this place is packed with people that voted to leave the EU.

:29:15. > :29:17.70% of people voted to leave the European Union.

:29:18. > :29:25.I'm the only candidate standing in this election

:29:26. > :29:27.who is a true Brexiteer, who has always campaigned to leave

:29:28. > :29:30.the EU and therefore I believe I would be the best person

:29:31. > :29:33.But he has had to fight off allegations

:29:34. > :29:36.he wasn't living in the constituency when he entered the contest.

:29:37. > :29:39.Explain to me what is going on with this issue about your house?

:29:40. > :29:41.Well, we took up the lease the day before nominations.

:29:42. > :29:44.Everything we've done is perfectly legal and within the law.

:29:45. > :29:49.The Labour Party are trying to get off the real issues in this election

:29:50. > :29:56.and focus on something which is banal nonsense.

:29:57. > :30:02.And there's been trouble as well for the Labour contender.

:30:03. > :30:04.He's been labelled a Remoaner after he sent a series

:30:05. > :30:07.of anti-Brexit tweets, filled with words

:30:08. > :30:17.I can't believe I'm about to ask this question in a nursery

:30:18. > :30:20.on a Sunday morning TV programme, but did you really tweet that

:30:21. > :30:25.I tweeted many things about Brexit, that's tweet is out there.

:30:26. > :30:28.It was done quite after the referendum result and it

:30:29. > :30:31.was my way of showing my frustration at the fact that months

:30:32. > :30:36.after the result we hadn't had anything from the government.

:30:37. > :30:38.Theresa May had failed to produce any plan,

:30:39. > :30:40.she had failed to give any meaningful statement

:30:41. > :30:42.about what Brexit meant other than bland statements

:30:43. > :30:45.about Brexit is Brexit, and it's a hard Brexit, or a soft Brexit.

:30:46. > :30:49.The context of it was it was out of frustration.

:30:50. > :30:52.So you didn't mean to insult the 70% of the people who live here

:30:53. > :30:55.I never mean to insult anybody and you know,

:30:56. > :30:58.I've made it quite clear, if I'm elected as the member

:30:59. > :31:00.of Parliament for Stoke-on-Trent Central, I will absolutely respect

:31:01. > :31:02.the wishes of the people of Stoke Central.

:31:03. > :31:06.I will make sure my vote in parliament is to trigger Article 50.

:31:07. > :31:09.While the Tories' man has done little bit of rebranding too.

:31:10. > :31:12.I voted Remain and I've been open about that, but my top priority

:31:13. > :31:15.is about the economy and to ensure we still have an

:31:16. > :31:18.Theresa May has set out clear proposal to ensure we develop

:31:19. > :31:28.a trade relationship with Europe and make that a success.

:31:29. > :31:31.It means the Lib Dems and the Greens are the ones battling Brexit.

:31:32. > :31:33.Well, when the Lib Dem candidate is actually here.

:31:34. > :31:39.The candidate is a consultant cardiologist.

:31:40. > :31:42.He is actually at work today doing very important heart surgery.

:31:43. > :31:45.He will be back tomorrow, back on the campaign trail working hard.

:31:46. > :31:49.30% of people voted to Remain and nobody else

:31:50. > :31:53.is representing them, so, you know, it is still a live issue.

:31:54. > :31:54.It is still something people care about.

:31:55. > :31:57.We are only at the start of the Article 50 process

:31:58. > :32:02.We are very a clear that we are standing up for those

:32:03. > :32:05.who want to remain in the single market, who want to protect jobs

:32:06. > :32:10.Labour have taken people for granted in this area for a great many years.

:32:11. > :32:12.Ukip, I'm afraid, all Ukip can offer to politics is division.

:32:13. > :32:15.I've covered a lot of by-elections where Ukip have come second.

:32:16. > :32:18.We'll find out if they really got Labour on the ropes this

:32:19. > :32:38.And here is a full list of all the candidates standing

:32:39. > :32:49.in the Stoke-on-Trent Central by-election.

:32:50. > :32:58.They do atract lots of candidates. You can get that on the BBC website

:32:59. > :33:06.as well. I was trying to think back, here we have the main opposition

:33:07. > :33:07.party defending two seats in by-elections in the midterm of a

:33:08. > :33:15.government. All the speculation is where the

:33:16. > :33:20.opposition party can hold on, that is unprecedented. I can't give of an

:33:21. > :33:25.equivalent. You wouldn't just expect them to win seats they have held

:33:26. > :33:31.traditionally, you would expect hem to make inroads into seats held by

:33:32. > :33:35.the other party, I wonder if they fail to hold on to just one of

:33:36. > :33:41.these, whether it accelerates the momentum and criticism of the

:33:42. > :33:45.leadership of the moment. I think they are interesting constituencies.

:33:46. > :33:50.Matthew good win was talking about the left win coalition over the

:33:51. > :33:58.years, almost being too broad for its own good, including places like

:33:59. > :34:02.Primrose Hill and Hackney. Big university towns in Manchester,

:34:03. > :34:12.Bristol. Diverse ethnically and included places like Stoke which are

:34:13. > :34:17.more Conservative. With a small c. Less economically well-off, more

:34:18. > :34:20.diverse, can the left hang on to both bits of country. Recent

:34:21. > :34:24.evidence suggests it cannot and the opportunity for Ukip is to pick up

:34:25. > :34:28.the second of those two types of community, the Stokes and the cope

:34:29. > :34:32.lands. That what makes the by-elections interest I would

:34:33. > :34:37.suggest. It is not just about Mr Corbyn's future about which we hear

:34:38. > :34:41.too much, it is about this traditional Labour coalition, can it

:34:42. > :34:45.still survive, particularly in places like Stoke? Europe clearly is

:34:46. > :34:52.a test. I think it's a myth by the way that Labour are only split now,

:34:53. > :34:57.over Europe and it has always been a Tory problem, last time I was on I

:34:58. > :35:04.mentioned it. That is why we had a referendum in 75. That is why they

:35:05. > :35:09.had a round then. But they were in chaos behind the scenes over what

:35:10. > :35:13.they thought about the euro, skillful leadership can paper over

:35:14. > :35:18.the cracks, and to address the wider issue of whether we are now in an

:35:19. > :35:22.era where left right issues have disappeared, and there is more of a

:35:23. > :35:30.regional divide, if you take Europe out of the equation which you can't,

:35:31. > :35:33.but if you were able to, issues about health, transport housing do

:35:34. > :35:39.split more left-right than a regional divide, so I think there is

:35:40. > :35:44.still fundamental left-right issues, but Europe isn't one of them and

:35:45. > :35:48.Europe has to be managed by a Labour leader skill fully and evidently

:35:49. > :35:53.that hasn't happened now. How would you see the by-elections in the

:35:54. > :35:58.current political context? Labour should be walking them, it should be

:35:59. > :35:59.a sign of the March of the Labour Party taking on the current

:36:00. > :36:03.Conservative Government. I don't think they raise any questions about

:36:04. > :36:07.Corbyn's leadership because the people who put him in don't think

:36:08. > :36:12.that winning elections matter, you have to remember this will be the

:36:13. > :36:16.mainstream media, it will be our fault why any of those Labour

:36:17. > :36:20.candidates don't win, the thing that is interesting is whether there is

:36:21. > :36:24.is a role for Ukip. The argument after the referendum was Ukip has

:36:25. > :36:30.done its job, it got the referendum, nothing to see here, I remember

:36:31. > :36:36.speaking to put a Nuttall before he was Ukip leader, on the day after

:36:37. > :36:40.the battle and he said this is Year Zero, where Ukip starts now, and

:36:41. > :36:44.this, and this is the interesting thing, does, do we see this one

:36:45. > :36:48.particular party having a role in the future? And I think it is all to

:36:49. > :36:53.play for, they could not not have stood in this seat. They have to win

:36:54. > :36:56.it to be an electoral force. The Labour candidate in Copeland has

:36:57. > :37:00.made the NHS the issue for her in this, that goes into the left-right,

:37:01. > :37:06.are we spending enough, are we not? That will be a test of what you were

:37:07. > :37:09.saying to see if traditional left-right issue, which at the

:37:10. > :37:13.moment would play Labour's way I would suggest, are big enough to

:37:14. > :37:17.overcome all the things you have been talking about and Matthew has

:37:18. > :37:21.been talking about. Maybe at this particular junction they are not,

:37:22. > :37:27.but I don't think any of those issues will go away, and that is why

:37:28. > :37:33.I question whether we are see the end of a historic left-right divide.

:37:34. > :37:36.At the moment with Europe so prominent, clearly these

:37:37. > :37:40.by-elections are unusual. And they will be a test of leadership for

:37:41. > :37:44.Theresa May in the coming months if not at the moment, as they have been

:37:45. > :37:48.in a way that he hasn't risen to, for the Labour leader.

:37:49. > :37:52.We will be leave on BBC One on the night, February 23rd off back of

:37:53. > :37:54.this week, we will bring you the result of both these crucial

:37:55. > :37:58.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:59. > :38:01.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:02. > :38:12.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

:38:13. > :38:14.Yes, hello, you're watching the Sunday Politics

:38:15. > :38:18.for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up today...

:38:19. > :38:20.Could Brexit mean a return to the working practices of old?

:38:21. > :38:22.Some claim workers' rights won't be protected.

:38:23. > :38:28.There's huge swathes of employment protection law that is greater

:38:29. > :38:37.And "Move over, great crested newts," the government says,

:38:38. > :38:40.Will removing some habitat protections help clear the way

:38:41. > :38:47.Yes, another busy world in the world of politics,

:38:48. > :38:50.and we are joined today by Melanie Onn, Labour

:38:51. > :38:52.MP for Great Grimsby, and Nigel Adams, Conservative

:38:53. > :38:56.MP for Selby and Ainsty. Hello to you both.

:38:57. > :38:59.So, what's been your political highlight of the week, Melanie Onn?

:39:00. > :39:02.Oh, I think Diane Abbott telling David Davis where to go this week

:39:03. > :39:05.has certainly cheered me up. I'm glad you said "where to go".

:39:06. > :39:10.Has David Davis ever offered to kiss you?

:39:11. > :39:14.Er, no, and I think he'd get exactly the same response as he got

:39:15. > :39:18.What have you been up to this week, Nigel Adams?

:39:19. > :39:22.Well, David Davis hasn't tried to kiss me, as far as I'm aware!

:39:23. > :39:26.Well, as you can imagine, it's been quite a momentous week

:39:27. > :39:29.and the Commons has passed the Article 50 bill,

:39:30. > :39:32.so I think that has to be the highlight of the week.

:39:33. > :39:34.OK, we shall chat about that a little bit later,

:39:35. > :39:38.But first, we're asking, will workers' rights be

:39:39. > :39:43.That's been the subject of a fierce debate recently.

:39:44. > :39:46.And Melanie's launched her own bill in Parliament aimed at ringfencing

:39:47. > :39:48.the EU laws designed to protect workers.

:39:49. > :40:00.Many of our ancestors worked long hours in dangerous conditions.

:40:01. > :40:02.Health and safety legislation was virtually nonexistent

:40:03. > :40:08.Nowadays, numerous laws exist to protect workers from exploitation.

:40:09. > :40:14.But some claim workers' rights may not be guaranteed after Brexit.

:40:15. > :40:21.Whatever intentions Theresa May and all the rest of them have,

:40:22. > :40:23.in enshrining the current rights, we can't be sure what's

:40:24. > :40:27.going to happen in the future and, before, I think there was a little

:40:28. > :40:29.more certainty around how the EU operates in other European-wide

:40:30. > :40:34.regulations and therefore more difficult to get rid of.

:40:35. > :40:39.Parliament, with a big majority, could easily get rid

:40:40. > :40:41.of workers' rights, and that's what I'm scared of.

:40:42. > :40:44.Among the many EU laws designed to protect workers include working

:40:45. > :40:48.time regulations that mean employees can't be forced to work more

:40:49. > :40:56.Staff must also be given regular time off and rest breaks,

:40:57. > :41:00.at least 11 hours between jobs, and agency workers are given

:41:01. > :41:03.the same basic rights as permanent staff after they've been in

:41:04. > :41:10.When it comes to the family friendly policies, already,

:41:11. > :41:13.our maternity leave and pay is higher than in Europe, holiday

:41:14. > :41:16.leave is larger than in Europe, so there's huge swathes

:41:17. > :41:18.of employment protection law that is greater

:41:19. > :41:25.Some businesses argue the government shouldn't automatically adopt

:41:26. > :41:34.I think the big focus is on trying to reduce bureaucracy.

:41:35. > :41:37.I mean, a lot of these directives are well-intentioned and we know

:41:38. > :41:42.we're competing for workers with big companies, with attractive packages,

:41:43. > :41:45.so it's not like we're trying to diminish workers' rights,

:41:46. > :41:48.what we're trying to do is make it easier to employ people.

:41:49. > :41:53.You really want to reduce the barriers to taking on new people.

:41:54. > :41:55.-- We really want to reduce the barriers

:41:56. > :41:59.The greatest workers' rights, if you want to call it that,

:42:00. > :42:02.was equality of pay for men and women, which was brought

:42:03. > :42:06.by the women of Dagenham at the Ford factory,

:42:07. > :42:09.the semiskilled ladies there, who fought very bravely for that

:42:10. > :42:12.and were backed by Barbara Castle, of course a Labour Minister,

:42:13. > :42:17.So to suggest we need Brussels for that kind of thing

:42:18. > :42:19.is disingenuous at best and I think some of these younger

:42:20. > :42:22.Labour MPs want to just look in their own history a little bit,

:42:23. > :42:26.So expect a fierce debate over the coming months about which EU

:42:27. > :42:32.laws should be kept after we leave the European Union in 2019.

:42:33. > :42:34.Melanie Onn, Theresa May has said that workers' rights

:42:35. > :42:36.will be fully protected and maintained after Brexit.

:42:37. > :42:41.Well, because she hasn't given any indication of how she can guarantee

:42:42. > :42:44.that and the reason that I put my bill forward was

:42:45. > :42:48.to make sure that the rights that we currently have are enshrined

:42:49. > :42:50.into primary legislation, which means that they can't be left

:42:51. > :42:53.languishing in secondary legislation, where they can be

:42:54. > :43:00.amended through Statutory Instrument, which is acting up

:43:01. > :43:02.-- amended through Statutory Instrument, which is a kind of

:43:03. > :43:04.behind-the-scenes way of roles that can actually be undermined

:43:05. > :43:07.and not come to the floor of the House of Commons.

:43:08. > :43:10.And I wasn't asking for anything more than what we have at the moment

:43:11. > :43:14.but it was asking that what we have now is fully protected and will not

:43:15. > :43:16.be undermined and cannot be undermined going forward,

:43:17. > :43:19.unless it is brought in front of the whole house, and I think

:43:20. > :43:23.And I haven't had a lot of objections from either side

:43:24. > :43:27.Right, Nigel Adams, so why not have a bill that enshrines UK law

:43:28. > :43:29.all the protections we currently have in European law?

:43:30. > :43:33.That's exactly what we're going to get, Theresa May's maybe the clear.

:43:34. > :43:36.-- That's exactly what we're going to get, Theresa May's made it clear.

:43:37. > :43:39.She's also actually made it clear that this will be part

:43:40. > :43:42.of the Great Repeal Bill, so I understand why Melanie might be

:43:43. > :43:44.concerned about that, but the assurances

:43:45. > :43:47.the Prime Minister has given, that all the existing workers' rights

:43:48. > :43:50.that are here, because of EU law, will be enshrined into UK law,

:43:51. > :43:53.and that will be made part of the Great Repeal Bill as well.

:43:54. > :43:56.You are saying that's not good enough for you?

:43:57. > :43:59.Well, because it won't be, it won't be about primary

:44:00. > :44:02.legislation, it's going to be going through Statutory Instrument.

:44:03. > :44:04.We know that we're going to be looking at these areas

:44:05. > :44:10.We're going to have anything from 300 to 1500 pieces

:44:11. > :44:11.of Statutory Instrument, which is secondary legislation

:44:12. > :44:14.going through every single year, and that is not going to be

:44:15. > :44:19.good enough, I don't think, to protect those rights,

:44:20. > :44:21.and there are some really serious things when it

:44:22. > :44:23.comes to workers' rights, whether it's if you

:44:24. > :44:26.or if you're being moved to a different company,

:44:27. > :44:29.or are an agency worker, if you're a carer, you know,

:44:30. > :44:31.the rights that people have fought for and won rights

:44:32. > :44:33.from the European Court need to be protected,

:44:34. > :44:37.and I think it's really important, so it's been disappointing.

:44:38. > :44:40.I mean, I had amendments to the Article 50 bill,

:44:41. > :44:43.but unfortunately were deemed to be out of scope, but I'll bring them

:44:44. > :44:46.back ahead of the Repeal Bill in a couple of years' time and try

:44:47. > :44:50.and get them in and try and make sure that we do have workers' rights

:44:51. > :44:58.front and centre of the renegotiated deal out of Europe.

:44:59. > :45:01.Nigel Adams, when some business people talk about cutting red tape,

:45:02. > :45:03.often what they are talking about is cutting protection

:45:04. > :45:05.for workers, isn't it? Well, they shouldn't be.

:45:06. > :45:07.Any responsible employer doesn't want to see workers' rights denied.

:45:08. > :45:17.Theresa May, as I say, has made it perfectly clear that

:45:18. > :45:20.all existing protections through EU law will be adopted into UK law.

:45:21. > :45:23.And I think what we should do is analyse very closely

:45:24. > :45:26.Obviously, that's where the detail's going to be contained,

:45:27. > :45:31.I understand why, you have a perfectly good reason

:45:32. > :45:36.I'll tell you why I don't have a great deal of confidence in it.

:45:37. > :45:38.It's because, since the Tories came to power, we've had

:45:39. > :45:40.the introduction of tribunal fees, so it's made it much

:45:41. > :45:42.more hard for people to access their rights

:45:43. > :45:45.You don't have any workplace rights until you've been

:45:46. > :45:48.employed for two years - that was a decision that

:45:49. > :45:55.We've seen an attack on trade unions in ability for people to participate

:45:56. > :45:58.in action to protect their rights at work under a Tory government.

:45:59. > :46:00.And that's why, when the Prime Minister says that she wants

:46:01. > :46:04.to protect workers' rights, I just don't have the same

:46:05. > :46:06.confidence that Nigel has in her, I'm afraid.

:46:07. > :46:15.But when you look at are laws computed European laws,

:46:16. > :46:18.-- But when you look at our laws compared with European laws,

:46:19. > :46:20.maternity leave, for example, our laws guarantee 52

:46:21. > :46:21.weeks' maternity leave, European law it's 14 weeks.

:46:22. > :46:24.Now, we've a proud tradition of protecting workers in this country.

:46:25. > :46:26.Surely we should trust our Parliament, not Brussels?

:46:27. > :46:29.Well, I think that it's absolutely fair that, in some areas,

:46:30. > :46:31.this country does outstrip the protections, the minimums,

:46:32. > :46:33.that are in Europe and it's about saying the European roles

:46:34. > :46:36.are a minimum standard and that shouldn't stop any country

:46:37. > :46:38.wanting to go beyond that, and we should always

:46:39. > :46:41.want to go beyond that, but making sure we don't slip below

:46:42. > :46:45.You're from a business background, Nigel Adams.

:46:46. > :46:48.Are there any particular EU working laws you would get rid of?

:46:49. > :46:51.There's nothing that springs to mind that affects

:46:52. > :46:55.the background I was in, the sort of technology businesses.

:46:56. > :46:57.I think we are fortunate to have some of the best protections

:46:58. > :47:00.in Europe and indeed the world for our workforce.

:47:01. > :47:04.We should be very proud of where we are in that regard.

:47:05. > :47:07.We shall follow this debate with interest as it progresses.

:47:08. > :47:09.Now, we're not building enough houses.

:47:10. > :47:11.In fact, across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, we're developing

:47:12. > :47:19.Now, some would say this is nothing new.

:47:20. > :47:22.But this week we saw the latest White Paper on housing,

:47:23. > :47:25.published after months of delay, with a raft of proposals to speed up

:47:26. > :47:28.Will it be worth the paper it's written on?

:47:29. > :47:47.The government says it wants to fix the broken housing market.

:47:48. > :47:50.They say England needs 250,000 new homes a year and we aren't

:47:51. > :47:53.So how many do we need in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire?

:47:54. > :47:56.According to the Office of National Statistics,

:47:57. > :47:59.there will be 93,000 more households in the region by 2020

:48:00. > :48:07.But can the rate of new homes match that?

:48:08. > :48:10.At the moment, Yorkshire eand Lincolnshire is building on average

:48:11. > :48:17.To reach the 93,000 target, we'll need to build 18,600 a year,

:48:18. > :48:20.more than 1.5 times the current amount.

:48:21. > :48:21.So how will the government kick-start

:48:22. > :48:30.First of all, it requires all local authorities to be a lot more

:48:31. > :48:32.realistic about local need, to assess that

:48:33. > :48:35.properly and honestly. Secondly, it diversifies the market.

:48:36. > :48:38.We need a lot more smaller, independent builders.

:48:39. > :48:42.We also need new methods of construction.

:48:43. > :48:48.We also need to make sure that, where local authorities do give

:48:49. > :48:50.planning permission, that that planning permission

:48:51. > :48:54.Sajid Javid also says he'll keep protections on green belt land,

:48:55. > :48:57.except where there is no other option for house building.

:48:58. > :49:12.Here in Sheffield, there's no local plan for how land can be used.

:49:13. > :49:15.It means developers can apply, like on this land, on the outskirts

:49:16. > :49:19.The green belt in Sheffield is up for review, as part

:49:20. > :49:21.of the local plan process, and we don't yet know which areas,

:49:22. > :49:24.which sites, will actually be proposed to be taken out

:49:25. > :49:27.Our issue really here is that Sheffield should

:49:28. > :49:29.really only grow outwards, if it's making the most use

:49:30. > :49:34.The East Riding of Yorkshire is the only place in the region

:49:35. > :49:42.It helps to have a local plan in place and to have an adopted

:49:43. > :49:46.plan, because that allows developers and landowners greater certainty

:49:47. > :49:49.over what they are doing and it also gives the communities

:49:50. > :49:54.and the settlements who are accepting this development

:49:55. > :49:57.greater certainty of what they can expect to see

:49:58. > :50:01.But it doesn't in itself deliver housing.

:50:02. > :50:06.This small development firm in Beverley have just 50 employees.

:50:07. > :50:11.We've had massive issues with skill shortages recently.

:50:12. > :50:13.The hardest thing I find is getting young guys that are interested

:50:14. > :50:18.in coming into the industry and wanting to work for it.

:50:19. > :50:26.One of the things that could be improved is the kids at school level

:50:27. > :50:29.could be shown what they can earn in the industry.

:50:30. > :50:32.I mean, we've got guys working here that started work at 16

:50:33. > :50:34.and they're earning doctors' wages at the age of 25.

:50:35. > :50:37.The government wants to knock heads together to stop blockages

:50:38. > :50:42.They are trying everything, from fast tracking schemes

:50:43. > :50:46.for prefab housing, to introducing fees for planning appeals and

:50:47. > :50:52.changing protections for species, like great crested newts.

:50:53. > :50:54.Labour says the government promised a White Paper,

:50:55. > :50:57.but has offered a white flag to fix the housing crisis.

:50:58. > :51:02.So is this the start of a revolution or a sign of surrender?

:51:03. > :51:11.So, Melanie, the government says we should be building 1.5 times more

:51:12. > :51:13.the number of homes in our region across

:51:14. > :51:15.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire that we are building now -

:51:16. > :51:19.I think that there are a lot of challenges, both for local

:51:20. > :51:23.authorities or housing associations, and private builders.

:51:24. > :51:26.I don't think that there are enough builders out there to meet

:51:27. > :51:31.the demand and certainly not to meet the criteria set.

:51:32. > :51:34.There's a massive skill shortage in this area,

:51:35. > :51:36.problems with financing and, as has just been indicated there,

:51:37. > :51:41.there are problems around the planning process and speeding

:51:42. > :51:44.that up for people, but there's also the other side,

:51:45. > :51:46.that people at the moment, I don't think, feel

:51:47. > :51:48.that the planning process really works for them

:51:49. > :51:55.It feels too remote and it feels like decisions are overriding

:51:56. > :52:00.So I think there's a lot of different challenges to meet

:52:01. > :52:02.the housing need that the whole country is going to face

:52:03. > :52:07.When you look at the number of houses that needs to be built,

:52:08. > :52:10.Nigel Adams, isn't it inevitable we are going to have to start

:52:11. > :52:12.building on the green belt in some areas?

:52:13. > :52:14.And it means that some Tory MPs, who largely represent these areas,

:52:15. > :52:17.are not going to be very happy, because people have angry

:52:18. > :52:27.Yes, but the housing paper does make it perfectly clear that priority

:52:28. > :52:30.will be given to brownfield sites and assistance to councils that we

:52:31. > :52:34.I think, you know, green belt is there for a reason.

:52:35. > :52:38.Now, I've spoken to my council leader this week

:52:39. > :52:40.about the housing White Paper. He was very encouraged by it.

:52:41. > :52:44.We have a particular problem in my patch in that there are 5,000

:52:45. > :52:46.planning permissions out there that are not being built,

:52:47. > :52:49.So we've got to get around that issue.

:52:50. > :52:52.We've built 1,500 homes over the last five years

:52:53. > :52:55.or so in the Selby district, of which about a third of those

:52:56. > :52:58.have been affordable, so we've got to make sure that those

:52:59. > :53:02.planning permissions that are granted are built,

:53:03. > :53:05.so I think my council leader is very encouraged by some of the measures

:53:06. > :53:17.We need to cajole and occasionally bully developers and landowners

:53:18. > :53:20.into making sure that the permission they've got do happen.

:53:21. > :53:22.Is it right that some of the barriers to house-building

:53:23. > :53:27.I mean, things like, if great crested newts are found,

:53:28. > :53:30.then construction grinds to a halt - should we see an end to that?

:53:31. > :53:33.If I could just say first, I'm a bit confused.

:53:34. > :53:36.We've had this housing White Paper this week,

:53:37. > :53:40.It was only last year that we had a Housing Act passed,

:53:41. > :53:43.so I'm a bit confused why we needed another housing White Paper that

:53:44. > :53:45.apparently hasn't dealt with everything that should have

:53:46. > :53:52.We've got homelessness, which has doubled in the country

:53:53. > :53:56.over the last seven years, which is absolutely shocking,

:53:57. > :54:04.and when we're then getting to this point about great crested newts,

:54:05. > :54:06.we've got people sleeping in our streets, rough sleepers,

:54:07. > :54:09.you know, it seems to me that there has been a critical

:54:10. > :54:11.problem that has been known about for a very long time and

:54:12. > :54:17.But when you look at the official figures, Nigel Adams,

:54:18. > :54:19.according to the latest figures, in the Yorkshire and Humber region,

:54:20. > :54:22.there were more than 77,000 empty homes at the last count.

:54:23. > :54:25.Why aren't we using utilising those instead of building new ones?

:54:26. > :54:27.Well, we should be,... So why aren't we?

:54:28. > :54:35.I think what powers to local authorities, more legal powers,

:54:36. > :54:37.that allow them to make sure that those empty homes

:54:38. > :54:46.We've got a particular problem in one of my towns with empty homes,

:54:47. > :54:49.and with planning permissions that are never likely to get built,

:54:50. > :54:52.because a particular landowner wants to make sure those houses are not

:54:53. > :54:54.built, so more powers to local authorities through the courts

:54:55. > :55:00.So absolutely, empty homes, as well as the new homes,

:55:01. > :55:03.and let's also remember these homes need to be built

:55:04. > :55:07.Not a lot said about social housing in the White Paper either.

:55:08. > :55:10.I think we've actually got a reasonably good record

:55:11. > :55:14.on delivering social housing over the last few years.

:55:15. > :55:18.Well, David Cameron promised 200,000 new starter homes by 2020.

:55:19. > :55:22.That's been ditched by the government.

:55:23. > :55:25.So what does that say about the government's

:55:26. > :55:29.Well, it's something like a third of a million of new homes built

:55:30. > :55:32.in the last two or three years have been new starter homes,

:55:33. > :55:36.Look what we've done with the Help to Buy schemes.

:55:37. > :55:39.I visit lots of developments across my own patch and the vast

:55:40. > :55:41.majority of the houses that are being bought are being bought

:55:42. > :55:44.with government-backed schemes, so to say we're doing nothing

:55:45. > :55:51.But lots of people aren't in that position and,

:55:52. > :55:53.when it comes to social housing, the requirement for housing

:55:54. > :55:56.associations or councils to build one for everyone that they sell

:55:57. > :55:59.isn't happening and they will not be able to afford to do it.

:56:00. > :56:02.We will come back to social housing another time,

:56:03. > :56:05.I promise, but for now, let's get the latest of the week's

:56:06. > :56:13.political news and Cathy Booth has our round-up in 60 Seconds.

:56:14. > :56:18.Grantham and Stanford MP, Nick Boles, tweeted this picture

:56:19. > :56:20.of him leaving hospital to take part in the Brexit vote.

:56:21. > :56:25.He's currently undergoing chemotherapy for a brain tumour.

:56:26. > :56:28.Ukip's Jane Collins says she will appeal against her ?350,000

:56:29. > :56:35.bill for damages and legal costs after libelling three Rotherham MPs.

:56:36. > :56:43.The Yorkshire and Humber MEP said Sir Kevin Barron,

:56:44. > :56:45.Sarah Champion and John Healey knew about child

:56:46. > :56:49.The government says it will investigate contraceptives

:56:50. > :56:52.for seagulls, because of the menace being faced from the birds at some

:56:53. > :56:56.In Bridlington, locals said all that was needed was common sense.

:56:57. > :56:57.It's not rocket science. No.

:56:58. > :56:59.You know, put signs up and make it a fineable offence

:57:00. > :57:06.for people that's doing it. Yeah.

:57:07. > :57:09.And Hull East MP, Karl Turner, caused a social media whirl

:57:10. > :57:11.when he took his baby daughter into the Commons

:57:12. > :57:18.Stella-Mae was pictured by Harriet Harman.

:57:19. > :57:19.Is Parliament are more family friendly place

:57:20. > :57:23.to work, would you say? Definitely, yeah.

:57:24. > :57:26.I mean, it's still a working environment, and I think we have

:57:27. > :57:29.to consider that always, but definitely, the stigma that

:57:30. > :57:31.probably existed before I entered Parliament,

:57:32. > :57:33.perhaps before Nigel entered Parliament too,

:57:34. > :57:35.I don't think exists in the same way.

:57:36. > :57:39.It's certainly not as stuffy as it was.

:57:40. > :57:42.I know I take my son down in the October half term,

:57:43. > :57:45.as do many parliamentarians, because the recesses don't

:57:46. > :57:47.coincide, so you often see parliamentarians wandering around

:57:48. > :57:56.Are Parliament's traditions, the dress codes and the language

:57:57. > :57:58.that is used, do you think it has to change?

:57:59. > :58:03.Does that put people off politics? I'm not sure it does.

:58:04. > :58:07.I get lots of people come and visit Parliament from my constituency

:58:08. > :58:10.They love seeing the guys roaming around with tights and wigs.

:58:11. > :58:12.Do you ever roam around in tights yourself?

:58:13. > :58:15.I mean, not generally during the working week, Tim.

:58:16. > :58:16.LAUGHTER. That's a matter for me.

:58:17. > :58:19.We've just had a ruling this week, where the clerks will not,

:58:20. > :58:30.It's been deemed we are not in a court of law and so that dress,

:58:31. > :58:33.the old-fashioned view of the clerks in front of the Speaker,

:58:34. > :58:37.I don't buy the notion that it puts people off politics,

:58:38. > :58:39.the fact that people are wearing wigs or tights.

:58:40. > :58:42.The comments I get is that people love to see it.

:58:43. > :58:44.A number of Tory MPs have signed this motion now criticising

:58:45. > :58:47.Speaker John Bercow for the comments he made about Donald Trump,

:58:48. > :58:49.saying he shouldn't be allowed to address Parliament,

:58:50. > :58:54.We won't go into all that now, but have you signed that motion?

:58:55. > :58:56.Will you be signing it? I haven't seen the motion yet.

:58:57. > :59:00.I thought what the Speaker said this week was ridiculous.

:59:01. > :59:04.The idea that we don't have the President

:59:05. > :59:06.of the United States, our biggest ally, addressing

:59:07. > :59:08.Parliament is, in my view, nonsensical, whatever you think

:59:09. > :59:14.You know, I don't agree with what he has to say,

:59:15. > :59:17.but I think it's a huge slur on the American people.

:59:18. > :59:19.The Speaker was quite happy to have the Amir of Kuwait,

:59:20. > :59:25.This is the bloke who locks up gay people!

:59:26. > :59:29.Where were the people out on the streets when that happened?

:59:30. > :59:32.So you say you no longer have confidence in John Bercow?

:59:33. > :59:34.Well, I am incredibly disappointed with his comments

:59:35. > :59:36.about the President of the United States.

:59:37. > :59:40.I'm no fan of his, but I think that he should be afforded

:59:41. > :59:44.And anyway, it's no business of John Bercow.

:59:45. > :59:47.It's a matter for the Queen who she invites to her Palace.

:59:48. > :59:49.Did he overstep the mark, do you believe?

:59:50. > :59:52.No, I think he was just speaking from the heart,

:59:53. > :59:54.and I think echoing an awful lot of very sensible views

:59:55. > :00:00.You know, it was kind of a comment against misogyny and sexism,

:00:01. > :00:02.which are basic tenets of where we are

:00:03. > :00:08.And what I would say is, to address both houses

:00:09. > :00:10.is something that new presidents are not usually afforded.

:00:11. > :00:20.It didn't happen immediately for Obama, it didn't.

:00:21. > :00:24.And it was within a couple of days that Theresa May sort of ran off,

:00:25. > :00:27.held hands with Donald Trump and returned with a nice offer

:00:28. > :00:30.of addressing both houses that I think put the Queen in a very

:00:31. > :00:32.difficult position, according to Buckingham Palace.

:00:33. > :00:36.I just don't like the rank hypocrisy of this whole thing.

:00:37. > :00:42.Whatever you think of Donald Trump, to have the Amir of Kuwait,

:00:43. > :00:44.the President of China, a country with numerous

:00:45. > :00:47.human rights abuses, and not to afford that same welcome

:00:48. > :00:50.to our closest ally I think is hypocritical.

:00:51. > :00:53.You won't be inviting the Amir of Kuwait to Selby, then?

:00:54. > :00:58.You know, I've had plenty of foreign visitors to Selby,

:00:59. > :01:02.All right, we must leave it, we've run out of time.

:01:03. > :01:05.Thank you both for your thoughts today.

:01:06. > :01:16.After the excitement and late nights in the Commons last week,

:01:17. > :01:19.MPs are having a little break this week as we head into

:01:20. > :01:23.But there's still plenty in the diary in the near future -

:01:24. > :01:30.let's just remind ourselves of some key upcoming dates.

:01:31. > :01:40.There they are. We have the two by-elections on February 23rd. The

:01:41. > :01:43.budget is 8th March. That will be the last spring budget under this

:01:44. > :01:58.Government because it moves to the autumn.

:01:59. > :02:04.That round of French elections narrows the candidates, probably

:02:05. > :02:10.about eight or nine, down to two, the two who come first and second,

:02:11. > :02:17.then go into a play off round on May 7th. That will determine the next

:02:18. > :02:20.President. Steve, listening to Oliver Letwin and to the Labour

:02:21. > :02:24.leader in the House of Lords, is there any way you think that end of

:02:25. > :02:30.March deadline for Mrs May could be in jeopardy? No, I don't. Andrew

:02:31. > :02:34.Smith couldn't have been clearer with you they would do nothing to

:02:35. > :02:40.block not just Article 50 but that timetable, so I would be surprised

:02:41. > :02:45.if they don't make it. Given her, Theresa May's explicit determination

:02:46. > :02:50.to do so, not to do so would have become a problem for her, I think

:02:51. > :02:54.one way or another... No before this vote last week there was a vote nor

:02:55. > :02:59.the deadline, to agree the deadline by all sides. Plain sailing do you

:03:00. > :03:02.think? There is no serious Parliamentary resistance and it

:03:03. > :03:05.would be a personal embarrassment, I think for the Prime Minister to name

:03:06. > :03:11.the the end of March as the deadline and to miss it, unless she has a

:03:12. > :03:15.good excuse. I I reckon it will change the atmosphere of politics

:03:16. > :03:19.for the next two years, as soon as the negotiations begin, people in

:03:20. > :03:23.our profession will hunt for any detail and inside information we can

:03:24. > :03:27.find, thing also be leaked, I think from the European side from time to

:03:28. > :03:31.time, it will dominate the headlines for a solid two years and change

:03:32. > :03:38.politics. Let me just raise a possible, a dark cloud. No bigger

:03:39. > :03:41.than man's hand, that can complicate the timetable, because the Royal

:03:42. > :03:46.Assent on the current timetable has to come round the 13th. I would

:03:47. > :03:51.suggest that the Prime Minister can't trigger that until she does

:03:52. > :03:57.get the Royal Assent. If there is a bit of ping-pong that could delay

:03:58. > :04:00.that by receive day, the last thing the Europeans would want, they have

:04:01. > :04:06.another big meeting at the end of March which is the 60th anniversary

:04:07. > :04:13.of the Treaty of Rome. They don't want Article 50 to land on the

:04:14. > :04:17.table... It would infuriate everybody. My guess is she will have

:04:18. > :04:21.done it by then, this is between the Commons and the Lords, I mean Andrew

:04:22. > :04:28.Smith couldn't have been clearer, that they might send something back

:04:29. > :04:33.but they didn't expect a kind of a long play over this, so. The Liberal

:04:34. > :04:38.Democrats, they are almost an irrelevance in the Commons but not

:04:39. > :04:42.the Lords, they feel differently. Now, we don't know yet what the

:04:43. > :04:46.European Union negotiating position is going to be, we don't know

:04:47. > :04:49.because there are several crucial elections taking place, the Dutch

:04:50. > :04:53.taking place in March and then the one we put up, the French, and, at

:04:54. > :05:00.the moment, the French one is, it seems like it is coming down, to a

:05:01. > :05:08.play-off in the second round between Madame Le Pen who could come first

:05:09. > :05:12.in the first round and this Blairite figure, independent, centre-leftish

:05:13. > :05:17.Mr Macron, he may well get through and that, and the outcome of that

:05:18. > :05:22.will be an important determine napt on our negotiations. -- determinant.

:05:23. > :05:26.You o couldn't have two more different candidate, you have a

:05:27. > :05:31.national a front candidate and on the other hand the closest thing

:05:32. > :05:38.France could have you to a liberal President. With a small l. A

:05:39. > :05:43.reformist liberal President. It would be the most French thing in

:05:44. > :05:49.the world to elect someone who while the rest of the world is elected

:05:50. > :05:55.elitist, to elect someone who is the son of a teacher, who has liberal

:05:56. > :06:03.views, is a member of the French elite. It would be a thing for them

:06:04. > :06:11.to elect a man like that which I why I see them doing it. If it is Le

:06:12. > :06:15.Pen, Brexit becomes a minor sideshow, if it is Le Pen, the

:06:16. > :06:22.future of the European Union is? Danger, regardless of whether we are

:06:23. > :06:26.were in or out. I suggest if it is Mr Macron that presents some

:06:27. > :06:30.problems. He doesn't have his own party. He won't have a majority in

:06:31. > :06:34.the French assembly, he is untried and untested. He wants to do a

:06:35. > :06:41.number of things that will be unpopular which is why a number of

:06:42. > :06:49.people close to Mrs Le Pen tell me that she has her eye on 2022. She

:06:50. > :06:55.thinks lit go to hell in a hand basket under Mr Macron. He hasn't

:06:56. > :07:00.got the experience. What I find fascinating. It is not just all to

:07:01. > :07:04.play for in France, it is the fact what happens in France and Germany,

:07:05. > :07:10.not so much Holland I think but Germany later on in the year, how

:07:11. > :07:23.much it impacts what we are going to get. How much which ex #i78 panting

:07:24. > :07:26.on them. And at the time we are trying to, withdrawing ourself from

:07:27. > :07:30.European politics it is fascinating how much it will affect us. You see

:07:31. > :07:36.what Matthew was talking about earlier in the show, that what we do

:07:37. > :07:39.know, almost for sure, is that the socialist candidate will not get

:07:40. > :07:44.through to the second round. He could come firth but the

:07:45. > :07:48.centre-right candidate. If we were discussing that monthing a we would

:07:49. > :07:53.say it between teen the centre-right and the national fronts. We are to

:07:54. > :07:57.saying that. Matthew good win who spent a time in France isn't sure Le

:07:58. > :08:03.Pen will get into the second round, which is interesting. It is, I mean,

:08:04. > :08:09.it is going to be as important for the future of the European Union, as

:08:10. > :08:12.in retrospect the British 2015 general election was, if Labour had

:08:13. > :08:16.got in there would have been no referendum. That referendum has

:08:17. > :08:22.transformed the European Union because we are leaving and the

:08:23. > :08:27.French election is significant. We will be live from Paris on April

:08:28. > :08:32.23rd on the day France goings to the first round of polls. Tom Watson, he

:08:33. > :08:34.was on The Andrew Marr Show earlier today, was asked about Mr Corbyn,

:08:35. > :08:39.this is what he had to say. We had a damaging second leadership

:08:40. > :08:42.election, so we've got The polls aren't great for us,

:08:43. > :08:46.but I'm determined now we've got the leadership settled for this

:08:47. > :08:49.parliament, that we can focus on developing a very positive clear

:08:50. > :09:04.message to the British people So Julia, I don't know who are you

:09:05. > :09:10.are giggling. I find it untenable that, he is a very good media

:09:11. > :09:13.performer and he comes on and he is sitting there so well, you know,

:09:14. > :09:18.things are bad but don't worry we are looking at what we can do to win

:09:19. > :09:23.2020. The idea that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were sitting in their

:09:24. > :09:28.offices or on TV screens at this time in the electoral cycle thinking

:09:29. > :09:33.well I wonder if we can come up with a policy the British people might

:09:34. > :09:41.like. It is a nonsense, this is Tuesday night book zlufb. I am going

:09:42. > :09:48.to ask you the question I was going to before. I would suggest that he

:09:49. > :09:54.the right. The deputy Labour leader Tom Watson is violent the leadership

:09:55. > :09:59.is settled, with one caveat, unless the Corbynistas themselves to decide

:10:00. > :10:04.to move on Mr Corbyn, if the left of the Labour Party decides then it is

:10:05. > :10:08.not settled. Settled. If that doesn't happen that is That would be

:10:09. > :10:13.the worst situation if you are a Labour moderate. The Corbynistas

:10:14. > :10:19.would be saying the problem is no Corbynism, it is Corbyn himself, if

:10:20. > :10:24.we a younger person leading the process we can win the next general

:10:25. > :10:28.election, which means you have another itration of this, another

:10:29. > :10:36.five year experiment. And that is worst of all. If you are a Labour

:10:37. > :10:40.moderate, what you want is Jeremy Corbyn contest the next general

:10:41. > :10:44.election, possibly loses badly and then a Labour not moderate runs for

:10:45. > :10:49.the leadership saying we have tried your way, the worst would be Corbyn

:10:50. > :10:53.going, and a younger seven version of him trying and the experiment

:10:54. > :10:59.being extended. I see no easy way out of this. That is why he radiated

:11:00. > :11:04.the enthusiasm of someone in a hostage video in that interview.

:11:05. > :11:10.Maybe he has the Stockholm Syndrome now. The Labour moderates have had

:11:11. > :11:14.their day in the sun, two days in the sun and they lost. I suggest

:11:15. > :11:19.they are not going to try for the hat-trick again. Is there any

:11:20. > :11:26.indication that on the more Corbyn wing of the Labour Party, there is

:11:27. > :11:31.now doubts about their man. Yes, just to translate Tom Watson, what

:11:32. > :11:37.he meant was I Tom Watson am not going to get involved in another

:11:38. > :11:42.attempted coup. I tried it and it was a catastrophe. That is question

:11:43. > :11:48.enhe says it is set selled. It is because there is speculation on a

:11:49. > :11:54.daily basis. I disagree, Julia said I think this lot don't care about

:11:55. > :11:57.winning, I think they do. If the current position continue, one of

:11:58. > :12:02.two things will happen. Either Jeremy Corbyn will decide himself

:12:03. > :12:08.will decide he doesn't want to carry on. He half enjoys I it and half

:12:09. > :12:13.hates it. Finds it a strain. If that doesn't happen there will be some

:12:14. > :12:19.people round him who will say, look, this isn't working. There is another

:12:20. > :12:25.three-and-a-half years. There is a long way to go. I can't see it

:12:26. > :12:29.lasting in this way with politics in a state of flux, Tories will be

:12:30. > :12:34.under pressure in the coming two years, to have opinion polls at this

:12:35. > :12:39.level, I think is unsustainable. Final thought from you.? Yes, the

:12:40. > :12:43.idea it St another three-and-a-half years is just madness, but the

:12:44. > :12:49.people we are putting up at replacement for Jeremy Corbyn, and

:12:50. > :12:53.they have been focus grouping them. Most members wouldn't know who most

:12:54. > :12:57.of people were let alone most of the public.

:12:58. > :13:04.Angela rain? They are not overwhelmed with leadership

:13:05. > :13:08.potential at the moment. Very diplomatically put. Neither are the

:13:09. > :13:09.Tories, but they happened to have one at the moment. All right. That

:13:10. > :13:13.is it. Now, there's no Daily

:13:14. > :13:15.or Sunday Politics for the next week But the Daily Politics will be back

:13:16. > :13:20.on Monday 20th February and I'll be back here with the Sunday Politics

:13:21. > :13:24.on the 26th. Remember if it's Sunday,

:13:25. > :13:26.it's the Sunday Politics... Just back from

:13:27. > :14:08.a very long shift at work... The staff are losing -

:14:09. > :14:14.they're just giving in. Panorama goes undercover

:14:15. > :14:19.to reveal the real cost OK, everyone, have you got

:14:20. > :14:50.your bamboo sticks? If you just paint

:14:51. > :14:52.what you want to paint, I've turned around,

:14:53. > :14:58.my painting washes away. ..and take on

:14:59. > :15:03.The Big Painting Challenge. Remember, you're not painting

:15:04. > :15:06.a pond.