:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.The Government has insisted that Gibraltar will not be bargained
:00:46. > :00:49.But the territory's chief minister says the EU's proposal
:00:50. > :00:55.After a momentous week, Britain's journey out
:00:56. > :00:58.Can the Prime Minister satisfy her critics at home
:00:59. > :01:04.We speak to the former Conservative leader, Michael Howard.
:01:05. > :01:06.And we have the lowdown on next month's local elections -
:01:07. > :01:10.what exactly is up for grabs, who's going up and who's going down?
:01:11. > :01:13.Later on the Sunday Politics we find out what people across Yorkshire and
:01:14. > :01:16.Lincolnshire want from the Brexit negotiations.
:01:17. > :01:20.Could there perhaps be any surprises?
:01:21. > :01:23.changing their minds. MPs from opposing sides give the view from
:01:24. > :01:30.there constituencies. And with me, as always,
:01:31. > :01:33.the best and the brightest political panel in the business -
:01:34. > :01:35.Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn who'll be
:01:36. > :01:40.tweeting throughout the programme. For the people of Gibraltar, Clause
:01:41. > :01:43.22 of the EU's draft negotiating guidelines came as something
:01:44. > :01:45.of a shock. The guidelines propose
:01:46. > :01:51.that the Government in Spain be given a veto over any future trade
:01:52. > :01:54.deal as it applies to The UK Government has reacted
:01:55. > :01:59.strongly, saying Gibraltar will not be bargained away
:02:00. > :02:01.in the Brexit talks. Here's the Defence Secretary,
:02:02. > :02:08.Michael Fallon, speaking We are going to look
:02:09. > :02:14.after Gibraltar. Gibraltar's going to be protected
:02:15. > :02:18.all the way, all the way, because the sovereignty of Gibraltar
:02:19. > :02:20.cannot be changed without the agreement of the people
:02:21. > :02:23.of Gibraltar and they have made it very clear they do not
:02:24. > :02:26.want to live under Spanish rule and it is interesting, I think,
:02:27. > :02:29.in the draft guidelines from the EU that Spain is not saying
:02:30. > :02:40.that the whole thing is subject Michael Fallon earlier. Steve, is
:02:41. > :02:45.this a Spanish power grab or much ado about nothing? It could be both.
:02:46. > :02:50.Clearly what is happening about this negotiation and will happen again
:02:51. > :02:55.and again is that at different points individual countries can
:02:56. > :03:02.start playing bargaining cards. They will say, if you want a deal, you
:03:03. > :03:06.have to deliver this, UK. Spain is doing it early. It might turn out to
:03:07. > :03:13.be nothing at all. It is an early example of how to delete recruit
:03:14. > :03:21.after Article 50 is triggered, the dynamic -- how after Article 50 is
:03:22. > :03:25.triggered, the dynamic changes. At certain points, any country can veto
:03:26. > :03:30.it. It gives them much more power than we have clocked so far. Donald
:03:31. > :03:36.Tusk, the head of the European Council, he went out of his way to
:03:37. > :03:38.say Britain mustn't deal by laterally, with individual
:03:39. > :03:45.countries, it has to deal with the EU as a block. Was it mischiefmaking
:03:46. > :03:53.to add this bit in about Spain? Those two things do not tally. I
:03:54. > :04:00.think on our part, when I say we, I mean the Foreign Office and Number
:04:01. > :04:03.10, we dropped the ball. By excluding Gibraltar from the letter
:04:04. > :04:08.of Article 50, they gave an opportunity to the Spanish to steal
:04:09. > :04:13.the narrative. Why this is important, presentation, things
:04:14. > :04:18.looked like they were going quite well for Theresa May when she handed
:04:19. > :04:22.over the letter, for a few hours, and suddenly, you have this
:04:23. > :04:28.incredible symbolism of Gibraltar. For Brexiteers, the idea that there
:04:29. > :04:33.could be some kind of diminishment or failure in relation to Gibraltar,
:04:34. > :04:37.it would be a very symbolic illustration of things not going
:04:38. > :04:41.entirely to plan. Forget the detail, it does not look great. Gibraltar
:04:42. > :04:46.got mentions in the white paper. They did not get a mention in the
:04:47. > :04:52.Article 50 notification. Do you think the British Government did not
:04:53. > :04:55.see this coming? To be honest, I do not think it would make a bit of
:04:56. > :05:00.difference. Theresa May could have an entire chapter in her letter to
:05:01. > :05:05.Donald Tusk and the Spanish and the EU would have still tried this on.
:05:06. > :05:11.For me, it was as much a point of symbolism than it was for any power
:05:12. > :05:16.grab. It was a good point to make. You need to know, Britain, you are
:05:17. > :05:19.not in our club, we will not have your interests at heart. Officials
:05:20. > :05:26.after the press conference, they went on to talk about it saying it
:05:27. > :05:33.is a territorial dispute. It is not! Gibraltar is British. It is very
:05:34. > :05:37.much a shot across the bow is. Whether it comes to pass, it is
:05:38. > :05:41.still yet to be seen. I feel we will be chasing hares like this for the
:05:42. > :05:48.next few years. There will be many other examples. They are greatly
:05:49. > :05:55.empowered by the whole process. Britain has not really got... It has
:05:56. > :05:57.got to wait and hear what their interpretation of Brexit is. They
:05:58. > :06:02.will negotiate, we will negotiate accordingly. I have some sympathy
:06:03. > :06:08.about the letter, the Article 50 letter. They agonised over it, so
:06:09. > :06:11.much to get right in terms of balance and tone. It would have been
:06:12. > :06:23.absurd to start mentioning Skegness and everything else. Why not!
:06:24. > :06:28.Skegness, what did they do? It is a real example of how the dynamic now
:06:29. > :06:31.changes. The Spanish royals are going to come here in a couple of
:06:32. > :06:37.months, that could be interesting. It will be good feelings breaking
:06:38. > :06:45.up, I am sure. -- breaking out. So, after a historic week,
:06:46. > :06:48.the UK is now very much But will it be a smooth
:06:49. > :06:52.journey to the exit door? Or can we expect
:06:53. > :06:54.a bit of turbulence? Are you taking back
:06:55. > :06:56.control, Prime Minister? Big days in politics usually
:06:57. > :06:58.involve people shouting and the Prime Minister getting
:06:59. > :07:00.in a car. It is only a few hundred metres
:07:01. > :07:03.from Downing Street to Parliament. But the short journey is the start
:07:04. > :07:06.of a much longer one and we do not know exactly
:07:07. > :07:11.where we will all end up. This is a historic moment
:07:12. > :07:13.from which there can Moments earlier, this Dear John,
:07:14. > :07:23.sorry, Dear Don letter, was delivered by Britain's
:07:24. > :07:25.ambassador in Brussels to the EU He seemed genuinely upset
:07:26. > :07:28.to have been jilted. Back in Westminster,
:07:29. > :07:34.hacks from around the world were trying to work out what it
:07:35. > :07:37.all meant for the So, here it is, a copy
:07:38. > :07:43.of the six-page letter The letter reaffirms the PM's
:07:44. > :07:50.proposal to have talks on the exit deal and a future trade deal
:07:51. > :07:52.at the same time. It also mentioned the word
:07:53. > :07:55."security" 11 times and stated a failure to reach agreement
:07:56. > :07:57.would mean cooperation in the fight against crime
:07:58. > :08:01.and terrorism would be weakened. Later, our very own Andrew got
:08:02. > :08:05.to ask her what would happen if Britain left the European
:08:06. > :08:10.policing agency, Europol. We would not be able to access
:08:11. > :08:14.information in the same way as we would as a member,
:08:15. > :08:17.so it is important, I think, we are able to negotiate
:08:18. > :08:19.a continuing relationship that enables us to work together
:08:20. > :08:22.in the way that we have. That night, the
:08:23. > :08:24.Brexiteers were happy. We did not have a Mad
:08:25. > :08:30.Hatter, but now we do. Down the street, even the Remainers,
:08:31. > :08:34.having a Mad Hatters' tea party, I am not sure that is
:08:35. > :08:43.actually Boris, though. The next morning, the papers
:08:44. > :08:58.suggested Theresa May would use security as a bargaining tool
:08:59. > :08:58.and threaten to withdraw the UK's cooperation in this area
:08:59. > :08:58.if no deal was struck. Downing Street denied it,
:08:59. > :08:59.as did the Brexit Secretary. We can both cope, but we
:09:00. > :09:01.will both be worse off. That seems to be a statement
:09:02. > :09:05.of fact, it is not a threat, David Davis had other
:09:06. > :09:08.business that morning, introducing the Great Repeal Bill,
:09:09. > :09:10.outling his plans to transfer all EU law into British
:09:11. > :09:12.law to change later, It is not without its critics
:09:13. > :09:17.but the Brexit Secretary said, among other benefits,
:09:18. > :09:20.it would make trade talks easier As we exit the EU and seek
:09:21. > :09:26.a new deep and special partnership with the European Union,
:09:27. > :09:29.we are doing so from a position where we have the same
:09:30. > :09:31.standards and rules. It will also ensure we deliver
:09:32. > :09:37.on our promise to end the supremacy of European Union law
:09:38. > :09:39.in the UK as we exit. There was, though, a small
:09:40. > :09:46.issue with the name. The Government hit an early hurdle
:09:47. > :09:49.with the Great Repeal Bill. Parliamentary draughtsmen said
:09:50. > :09:52.they were not allowed Great(!)
:09:53. > :10:00.so it is just the Repeal Bill. So far, it had been
:10:01. > :10:02.a tale of two cities. By Friday, there was another,
:10:03. > :10:06.Valletta in Malta, where EU leaders were having a meeting
:10:07. > :10:08.and President Tusk, yes, him again, set out draft guidelines
:10:09. > :10:15.for the EU Brexit strategy. Once, and only once,
:10:16. > :10:18.we have achieved sufficient progress on the withdrawal can we discuss
:10:19. > :10:20.the framework for our Starting parallel talks
:10:21. > :10:24.on all issues at the same time, as suggested by some in the UK,
:10:25. > :10:32.will not happen. The EU 27 does not and will not
:10:33. > :10:37.pursue a punitive approach. Brexit in itself is
:10:38. > :10:43.already punitive enough. The pressure on Theresa May to get
:10:44. > :10:46.the Brexit process going has now gone and the stage is being set
:10:47. > :10:49.elsewhere for the showdown But face-to-face discussions
:10:50. > :10:59.are not likely to happen Before May or early June. No one is
:11:00. > :11:06.celebrating just yet. We're joined now from Kent
:11:07. > :11:14.by the former Conservative The EU says it will not talk about a
:11:15. > :11:17.future relationship with the UK until there has been sufficient
:11:18. > :11:25.progress on agreeing the divorce bill. Should the UK agree to this
:11:26. > :11:31.phased approach? Well, I think you can make too much about the sequence
:11:32. > :11:36.and timing of the negotiations. I assume that it will be a case of
:11:37. > :11:39.nothing is agreed until everything is agreed and so any agreements that
:11:40. > :11:45.might be reached on things talked about early on will be very
:11:46. > :11:49.provisional, so I think you can make a big deal about the timing and the
:11:50. > :11:54.sequence when I do not think it really matters as much as all that.
:11:55. > :11:58.Don't people have a right in this country to be surprised of the talk
:11:59. > :12:02.of a massive multi-billion pound divorce settlement? I do not
:12:03. > :12:10.remember either side making much of this in the referendum, do you? No.
:12:11. > :12:13.A select committee of the House of Lords recently reported and said
:12:14. > :12:19.that there was no legal basis for any exit fee. We will have to see
:12:20. > :12:26.how the negotiations go. I think some of the figures cited so far are
:12:27. > :12:31.wildly out of kilter and wildly unrealistic. We will have to see
:12:32. > :12:35.what happens in the negotiations. As one of your panel commented earlier,
:12:36. > :12:39.there will be lots of hares to pursue over the next couple of years
:12:40. > :12:46.and we should not get too excited about any of them. Would you accept
:12:47. > :12:50.that we make... It may not be anything like the figures Brussels
:12:51. > :12:58.is kicking around of 50, 60 billion euros, do you think we will have to
:12:59. > :13:04.make a one-off settlement? If we get everything else we want, if we get a
:13:05. > :13:09.really good trade deal and access for the City of London and so on,
:13:10. > :13:13.speaking for myself, I would be prepared to make a modest payment.
:13:14. > :13:23.But it all depends on the deal we get. What would modest be? Oh, I
:13:24. > :13:26.cannot give you a figure. We are right at the start of the
:13:27. > :13:32.negotiations. I do not think that would be agreed until near the end.
:13:33. > :13:35.The EU says that if there is a transition period of several years
:13:36. > :13:40.after the negotiations, and there is more talk of that, the UK must
:13:41. > :13:44.remain subject to the free movement of peoples and the jurisdiction of
:13:45. > :13:49.the European Court of Justice, would that be acceptable to you? It
:13:50. > :13:53.depends on the nature of the transitional agreement. We are
:13:54. > :14:00.getting well ahead of ourselves here. You cannot, I think, for any
:14:01. > :14:04.judgment as to whether there should be a transitional stage until you
:14:05. > :14:08.know what the final deal is. If there is to be a final deal. And
:14:09. > :14:15.then you know how long it might take to implement that deal. That is
:14:16. > :14:19.something I think that it is really rather futile to talk about at this
:14:20. > :14:24.stage. It may become relevant, depending on the nature of the deal,
:14:25. > :14:29.and that is the proper time to talk about it and decide what the answer
:14:30. > :14:33.to the questions you pose might be. Except the EU has laid this out in
:14:34. > :14:39.its negotiation mandate and it is reasonable to ask people like
:14:40. > :14:44.yourself, should we accept that? It is reasonable for me to say, they
:14:45. > :14:47.will raise all sorts of things in their negotiating mandate and we do
:14:48. > :14:52.not need to form a view of all of them at this stage. Let me try
:14:53. > :14:55.another one. The EU says if they do agree what you have called a
:14:56. > :15:00.comprehensive free trade deal, we would have to accept EU constraints
:15:01. > :15:08.on state aid and taxes like VAT and corporation tax. Would you accept
:15:09. > :15:12.that? Again, I am not sure quite what they have in mind on that. We
:15:13. > :15:17.will be an independent country when we leave and we will make our own
:15:18. > :15:25.decisions about those matters. Not according to know that -- to the
:15:26. > :15:30.negotiating mandate. As I have said, they can put all sorts of things in
:15:31. > :15:34.the negotiating guidelines, it does not mean we have to agree with them.
:15:35. > :15:40.No doubt that is something we can discuss in the context of a free
:15:41. > :15:43.trade agreement. If we get a free trade agreement, that is very
:15:44. > :15:45.important for them as well as for us, and we can talk about some of
:15:46. > :15:57.the things you have just mentioned. Can you please leave a 20 without
:15:58. > :16:03.having repatriated full control of migration, taxis and the law? I
:16:04. > :16:10.think we will have repatriated all three of those things by the time of
:16:11. > :16:13.the next general election. How high would you rate the chances of no
:16:14. > :16:20.deal, and does that prospect worry you? I think the chances are we will
:16:21. > :16:24.get the deal, and I think the chances are we will get a good deal,
:16:25. > :16:31.because that is in the interests of both sides of this negotiation. But
:16:32. > :16:36.it is not the end of the world if we do not get a deal. Most trade in the
:16:37. > :16:40.world is carried out under World Trade Organisation rules. We would
:16:41. > :16:45.be perfectly OK if we traded with the European Union, as with
:16:46. > :16:49.everybody else, under World Trade Organisation rules. It is better to
:16:50. > :16:54.get the deal, and I think we will get the deal, because it is in the
:16:55. > :16:57.interests of both. Let me ask you about Gibraltar. You have campaigned
:16:58. > :17:02.in Gibraltar when the sovereignty issue came up under the Tony Blair
:17:03. > :17:08.government. The EU says that Spain should have a veto on whether any
:17:09. > :17:13.free-trade deal should apply to the Rock. How should the British
:17:14. > :17:18.government replied to that? As it has responded, by making it
:17:19. > :17:25.absolutely clear that we will stand by Gibraltar. 35 years ago this
:17:26. > :17:28.week, Andrew, another woman Prime Minister Centre task force is
:17:29. > :17:31.halfway across the world to protect another small group of British
:17:32. > :17:37.people against another Spanish-speaking country. I am
:17:38. > :17:40.absolutely clear that our current woman Prime Minister will show the
:17:41. > :17:52.same resolve in relation to Gibraltar as her predecessor did.
:17:53. > :17:54.This is not about Spain invading Gibraltar, it is not even about
:17:55. > :17:56.sovereignty, it is about Spain having a veto over whether any
:17:57. > :18:00.free-trade deal that the UK makes with the EU should also apply to
:18:01. > :18:06.Gibraltar. On that issue, how should the British government respond? The
:18:07. > :18:11.British government should show resolve. It is not in the interests
:18:12. > :18:15.of Spain, really, to interfere with free trade to Gibraltar. 10,000
:18:16. > :18:20.people who live in Spain working Gibraltar. That is a very important
:18:21. > :18:25.Spanish interest, so I am very confident that in the end, we will
:18:26. > :18:30.be able to look after all the interests of Gibraltar, including
:18:31. > :18:31.free trade. Michael Howard, thank you for joining us from Kent this
:18:32. > :18:34.morning. Although sometimes it seems
:18:35. > :18:36.like everyone has forgotten, there are things happening
:18:37. > :18:38.other than Brexit. In less than five weeks' time,
:18:39. > :18:41.there will be a round of important domestic elections and there's a lot
:18:42. > :18:44.up for grabs. Local elections take place
:18:45. > :18:47.on the 4th of May in England, In England, there are elections
:18:48. > :18:51.in 34 councils, with 2,370 The majority are county councils,
:18:52. > :18:58.usually areas of strength Large cities where Labour usually
:18:59. > :19:05.fares better are not Six regions of England will also
:19:06. > :19:08.hold elections for newly created combined authority mayors,
:19:09. > :19:11.and there will be contests for directly elected mayors,
:19:12. > :19:18.with voters in Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands
:19:19. > :19:21.among those going to the polls. In Scotland, every seat in all 32
:19:22. > :19:23.councils are being contested, many of them affected
:19:24. > :19:26.by boundary changes. Since these seats were last
:19:27. > :19:28.contested, Labour lost all but one Meanwhile, every seat in each
:19:29. > :19:34.of Wales' 22 councils All but one was last elected
:19:35. > :19:40.in 2012 in what was a very strong year for Labour,
:19:41. > :19:42.though independent candidates currently hold
:19:43. > :19:44.a quarter of council seats. According to the latest
:19:45. > :19:46.calculations by Plymouth University Election Centre,
:19:47. > :19:52.the Tories are predicted to increase their tally by 50 seats,
:19:53. > :19:54.despite being in government, But the dramatic story in England
:19:55. > :20:01.looks to be with the other parties, with the Lib-Dems possibly winning
:20:02. > :20:03.100 seats, while Ukip could be seeing a fall,
:20:04. > :20:08.predicted to lose 100 seats. Though the proportional system
:20:09. > :20:10.usually makes big changes less likely in Scotland,
:20:11. > :20:13.the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats
:20:14. > :20:16.they hold, and the number In Wales, Labour is defending a high
:20:17. > :20:25.water mark in support. Last year's Welsh Assembly elections
:20:26. > :20:28.suggest the only way is down, with all the parties making modest
:20:29. > :20:30.gains at Labour's expense. Joining me now is the BBC's
:20:31. > :20:32.very own elections guru, Professor John Curtice
:20:33. > :20:40.of the University of Strathclyde. Good to see you again. Let's start
:20:41. > :20:44.with England. How bad are the selection is going to be for Labour?
:20:45. > :20:49.Labourer not defending a great deal because this is for the most part
:20:50. > :20:53.rural England. The only control three of the council they are
:20:54. > :20:58.defending and they are only defending around 500 seats, I nearly
:20:59. > :21:02.a quarter are in one county, Durham. Labour's position in the opinion
:21:03. > :21:05.polls is weakened over the last 12 months and if you compare the
:21:06. > :21:17.position in the opinion polls now with where they were in the spring
:21:18. > :21:20.of 2013 when these seats in England were last fought, we are talking
:21:21. > :21:22.about a 12 point swing from Labour to conservative. The estimate of 50
:21:23. > :21:25.losses may be somewhat optimistic for Labour. Of the three council
:21:26. > :21:29.areas they control, two of them, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire,
:21:30. > :21:33.could be lost, leaving labourer with virtually a duck as far as council
:21:34. > :21:37.control is concerned in these elections in England. In England,
:21:38. > :21:42.what would a Liberal Democrat reserve urgently great? That is the
:21:43. > :21:46.big question. We have had this picture since the EU referendum of
:21:47. > :21:49.the Liberal Democrats doing extraordinarily well in some local
:21:50. > :21:57.by-elections, gaining seats that they had not even fought before, and
:21:58. > :21:59.in other areas, doing no more than treading water. We are expecting a
:22:00. > :22:03.Liberal Democrat skin because the lost the lot -- the lost lots of
:22:04. > :22:07.ground when they were in coalition with the Conservatives. It is
:22:08. > :22:11.uncertain. A patchy performance may well be to their advantage. If they
:22:12. > :22:14.do well in some places and gain seats, and elsewhere do not do
:22:15. > :22:18.terribly well and do not waste votes, they may end up doing
:22:19. > :22:23.relatively well in seats, even if the overall gaining votes is likely
:22:24. > :22:54.to be modest. The elections for mayors, they are taking place in
:22:55. > :22:58.the Labour will that be a hefty consolation prize for the Labour
:22:59. > :23:00.Party? It ought to be, on Teesside, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. We
:23:01. > :23:03.are looking at one content very closely, that is the contest for the
:23:04. > :23:05.mayor of the West Midlands. If you look at what happened in the general
:23:06. > :23:08.election in 2015, labourer work nine points ahead of the Conservatives in
:23:09. > :23:10.the West Midlands. If you look at the swing since the general
:23:11. > :23:13.election, if you add that swing to where we were two years ago, the
:23:14. > :23:15.West Midlands now looks like a draw. Labour have to worry about a
:23:16. > :23:18.headline grabbing loss, and the West Midlands contest. If they were to
:23:19. > :23:20.lose, that wooden crate -- that would increase the pressure for
:23:21. > :23:24.their own Jeremy Corbyn to convince people that they can turn his
:23:25. > :23:29.party's fortunes around, and in truth at the moment, they are pretty
:23:30. > :23:33.dire. The West Midlands has Birmingham as its heart.
:23:34. > :23:38.Chock-a-block with marginal seats. It always has been. I always
:23:39. > :23:46.remember election night and marginal seats in the West Midlands.
:23:47. > :23:50.Scotland, the SNP is assaulting Labour's last remaining power base.
:23:51. > :23:56.The biggest prizes Glasgow. Will it take it, the SNP? Whether the SNP
:23:57. > :24:00.will gain control of Glasgow is uncertain. If you look at what is
:24:01. > :24:05.happening in local government by-elections let alone the opinion
:24:06. > :24:09.polls, in 2012, when these seats were last fought, Labour did
:24:10. > :24:13.relatively well, only one percentage point behind the SNP who were rather
:24:14. > :24:18.disappointed with the result compared to other elections. No sign
:24:19. > :24:26.of that happening this time alone -- this time around. Polls put the SNP
:24:27. > :24:29.ahead. By-elections have found the SNP advancing and Labour dropping by
:24:30. > :24:32.double digits. Labour are going to lose everything they currently
:24:33. > :24:36.control in Scotland, the SNP will become the dominant party, the
:24:37. > :24:40.question is how well they do. In Scotland there is a Conservative
:24:41. > :24:45.revival going on. The Conservatives did well in recent local government
:24:46. > :24:49.by-elections. At the moment, Labour are expected to come third north of
:24:50. > :24:56.the border in the local elections, repeating the third they suffered in
:24:57. > :24:59.the Holyrood elections last year. In Wales, Labour is expecting to lose
:25:00. > :25:05.control of a number of councils. They are the main party in 12 of 22
:25:06. > :25:09.local authorities. How bad could it be? We're expecting Labour to lose
:25:10. > :25:14.ground. In the opinion polls when these seats were last fought,
:25:15. > :25:19.labourer in the high 40s. Now they are not much above 30%. Cardiff
:25:20. > :25:24.could well join Glasgow was no longer being a Labour stronghold.
:25:25. > :25:27.Look out for Newport. Some of the South Wales councils that Labour
:25:28. > :25:43.control, Labour is probably too but occasionally, Plaid
:25:44. > :25:45.Cymru surprises in this area. They managed to win the Rhondda seat in
:25:46. > :25:47.the assembly elections. Jeremy Corbyn has said he wants to be
:25:48. > :25:50.judged on proper elections, council elections as opposed to opinion
:25:51. > :25:52.polls, but even if he does as badly as John has been suggesting, does it
:25:53. > :25:59.affect his leadership? I think it does on two counts. It will affect
:26:00. > :26:03.his own confidence. Anyone who is a human being will be affected by
:26:04. > :26:08.this. He might go into his office and be told by John McDonnell and
:26:09. > :26:14.others, stand firm, it is all right, but it will affect his confidence
:26:15. > :26:19.and inevitably it contributes to a sense that this is moving to some
:26:20. > :26:23.kind of denoument, at some point. In other words, while I understand the
:26:24. > :26:29.argument that he has won twice in a leadership contest, well, within 12
:26:30. > :26:37.months, I wonder whether this can carry on in a fixed term parliament,
:26:38. > :26:41.up until 2020, if it were to do so. On two France, it will have some
:26:42. > :26:46.impact. I am not seeing it will lead to his immediate departure, it will
:26:47. > :26:52.mark, but if these things are as devastating as John suggests, it
:26:53. > :26:58.will have an impact. Tom, I'll be looking at a Lib Dem fightback? That
:26:59. > :27:02.is the $64,000 question. It would seem that we should be. One massive
:27:03. > :27:07.reason we're not having a general election a time soon, apart from the
:27:08. > :27:09.fact that Theresa May does not believe in these things, she
:27:10. > :27:15.believes in pressing on, it is because Tory MPs in the South West
:27:16. > :27:17.who took the Lib Dem seats, they were telling Number 10 they were
:27:18. > :27:22.worried they were going to lose their seats back to the Lib Dems.
:27:23. > :27:26.The Lib Dems never went away and local government. They have got
:27:27. > :27:31.other campaigners and activists. It looks credible that they will be the
:27:32. > :27:35.success story of the whole thing. Ukip leader, Paul Nuttall, he says
:27:36. > :27:42.this will be the most difficult local elections his party will face
:27:43. > :27:47.before 2020. A bit of management of expectations. It is unlikely to be a
:27:48. > :27:52.good time for Ukip. They are right to manage expectations. The results
:27:53. > :28:12.will be horrible for Ukip. I agree with Tom about the Lib Dem
:28:13. > :28:16.threat to the Tories. Talking to some senior figures within the Tory
:28:17. > :28:18.party earlier this week, I was picking up that they are worried
:28:19. > :28:20.about 30-40 general election seeds being vulnerable to the Lib Dems
:28:21. > :28:22.because of the Labour collapse. I would normally agree with Steve
:28:23. > :28:25.about the resilience of politicians, the capability of withstanding
:28:26. > :28:27.repeated blows, but Jeremy Corbyn is not in the normal category. I think
:28:28. > :28:30.he is, in the sense that although he get solace from winning leadership
:28:31. > :28:34.contest, anyone who leads a party into the kind of, it is not going to
:28:35. > :28:40.be that vivid, because they are not defending the key seats. If they
:28:41. > :28:46.were to win Birmingham, say, and get slaughtered by the SNP in Scotland,
:28:47. > :28:49.it will undermine what is already a fairly ambiguous sense of
:28:50. > :28:52.self-confidence. We need to leave it there. Thank you, John Curtice.
:28:53. > :28:54.Well, with those elections on the horizon, is Labour where it
:28:55. > :28:57.Former leader Ed Miliband was on the Andrew
:28:58. > :28:59.Marr Show earlier and he explained the challenge Labour faces
:29:00. > :29:04.It is easier for other parties, if you are the Greens or the
:29:05. > :29:07.Liberal Democrats you're essentially fishing in the 48% pool.
:29:08. > :29:11.If you are Ukip, you are fishing in the 52% pool.
:29:12. > :29:13.Labour is trying to do something much harder,
:29:14. > :29:15.which is to try and speak for the whole country,
:29:16. > :29:17.and by the way, that is another part of
:29:18. > :29:21.Our attack on Theresa May, part of it is she's
:29:22. > :29:28.Ignoring the verdict going into this, saying,
:29:29. > :29:30.let's overturn it, looks like ignoring the 52%.
:29:31. > :29:35.By the way, there is more that unites Remainers
:29:36. > :29:38.and Leavers than might first appear, because they share common
:29:39. > :29:42.concerns about the way the country is run.
:29:43. > :29:48.Joining me now is the Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth.
:29:49. > :29:52.Welcome to the programme. Alastair Campbell told me on the BBC on
:29:53. > :29:58.Thursday that he is fighting to reverse the referendum result. Ed
:29:59. > :30:04.Miliband says that Remain needs to accept the result, come to terms
:30:05. > :30:08.with it. Who is right? We have to accept the referendum result. I
:30:09. > :30:13.campaigned passionately to remain in the European Union. The city I
:30:14. > :30:17.represent, Leicester, voted narrowly to remain in the European Union.
:30:18. > :30:21.Sadly the country did not. We cannot overturn that and be like kinky
:30:22. > :30:27.nude, trying to demand the tide go back out. We have to accept this
:30:28. > :30:35.democratic process. We all voted to have a referendum when the relevant
:30:36. > :30:43.legislation came to Parliament. How bad will the local elections before
:30:44. > :30:49.Labour? Let us see where we get to on election night when I am sure I
:30:50. > :30:57.will be invited on to one of these types of programmes... The election
:30:58. > :31:01.date, the following day. But it does look like you will lose seats across
:31:02. > :31:06.the board in England, Scotland and Wales. What did you make of what
:31:07. > :31:11.Steve Richards said about the impact on Jeremy Corbyn's leadership? We
:31:12. > :31:18.have to win seats, we cannot fall back on the scales suggested. No,
:31:19. > :31:25.your package was right, it tends to be Tory areas, but generally, we
:31:26. > :31:28.have to be winning in Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, those
:31:29. > :31:32.types of places because they contain a lot of the marginal constituencies
:31:33. > :31:38.that decide general elections. The important places in the elections
:31:39. > :31:45.are towns like Beeston, towns you have not heard of, but they are
:31:46. > :31:50.marginal towns in marginal swing constituencies. We have to do well
:31:51. > :31:53.in them. We will see where we are on election night but my pretty is to
:31:54. > :32:01.campaign hard in these areas over the next few weeks. Even people who
:32:02. > :32:07.voted Labour in 2015, they prefer Theresa May to Mr Corbyn as Prime
:32:08. > :32:11.Minister, a recent poll said. Isn't that extraordinary? I have not seen
:32:12. > :32:19.that. I will look it up. It was you Government. -- YouGov. It is
:32:20. > :32:24.important we win the trust of people. You are not winning the
:32:25. > :32:31.trust of people who voted for you in 2015. We have to hold onto people
:32:32. > :32:34.who voted for us in 2015 and we have to persuade people who voted for
:32:35. > :32:39.other parties to come to us. One of the criticisms I have of the debate
:32:40. > :32:44.that goes on in the wider Labour Party, do not misunderstand me, I am
:32:45. > :32:48.not making a criticism about an individual, but the debate you see
:32:49. > :32:53.online suggests that if you want to get people who voted Conservative to
:32:54. > :32:57.switch to Labour it is somehow a betrayal of our principles, it was
:32:58. > :33:04.not. Justin Trudeau said Conservative voters are our
:33:05. > :33:09.neighbours, our relatives. We have to persuade people to switch from
:33:10. > :33:16.voting Conservative to voting Labour as well as increasing our vote among
:33:17. > :33:20.nonvoters and Greens. It seems like you have a mountain to climb and the
:33:21. > :33:27.mountain is Everest. Another poll, I am not sure if you have seen this,
:33:28. > :33:37.in London, the Bastian of Labour, the Bastian of Remain, Mr Corbyn is
:33:38. > :33:42.less popular than even Ukip's Paul Nuttall. That is beyond
:33:43. > :33:46.extraordinary! I do not know about that. The most recent set of
:33:47. > :33:52.elections in London was the mayoral election where the Labour candidate
:33:53. > :33:58.city: won handsomely. He took the seat of a conservative. We took that
:33:59. > :34:11.of a conservative. It was a year ago. We did well then. You had an
:34:12. > :34:14.anti-Jeremy Corbyn candidate. I think he nominated Jeremy Corbyn,
:34:15. > :34:18.from memory. We have not got elections in London but our
:34:19. > :34:28.elections are in the county areas and the various mayoral elections...
:34:29. > :34:33.What about the West Midlands? In any normal year, mid-term, as the
:34:34. > :34:39.opposition, Labour should win the West Midlands. John Curtis says it
:34:40. > :34:43.is nip and tuck. It has always been a swing region but we want to do
:34:44. > :34:50.well, of course. We want to turn out a strong Labour vote in Dudley,
:34:51. > :34:55.Northampton, those sorts of places. They are key constituencies in the
:34:56. > :35:01.general election. Does Labour look like a government in waiting to you?
:35:02. > :35:06.What I would say is contrast where we are to what the conservative
:35:07. > :35:10.garment is doing. I asked you about Labour, you do not get to tell me
:35:11. > :35:15.about the Conservatives. Does it look like a government in waiting to
:35:16. > :35:18.you? Today we are exposing the Conservatives... Reminding people
:35:19. > :35:24.the Conservatives are breaking the pledge on waiting times of 18 weeks
:35:25. > :35:30.so lots of elderly people waiting longer in pain for hip replacements
:35:31. > :35:32.and cataract replacements. Yesterday the Housing spokesperson John Healey
:35:33. > :35:38.was exposing the shortcomings in the Help to Buy scheme. The education
:35:39. > :35:42.spokesperson has been campaigning hard against the cuts to schools.
:35:43. > :35:47.Tom Watson has been campaigning hard against some of the changes the
:35:48. > :35:50.Government want to introduce in culture. The Shadow Cabinet are
:35:51. > :35:55.working hard to hold the Government's feet to the fire. Does
:35:56. > :36:02.it look like a government in waiting? Yes. It took you three
:36:03. > :36:06.times! There is a social care crisis, schools funding issue, a
:36:07. > :36:10.huge issue for lots of areas, the NHS has just got through the winter
:36:11. > :36:18.and is abandoning many of its targets. You are 18 points behind in
:36:19. > :36:25.the polls. We have to work harder. What can you do? The opinion polls
:36:26. > :36:30.are challenging but we are a great Social Democratic Party of
:36:31. > :36:33.government. On Twitter today, lots of Labour activists celebrating that
:36:34. > :36:37.the national minimum wage has been in place for something like 16 years
:36:38. > :36:42.because we were in government. Look of the sweeping progressive changes
:36:43. > :36:47.this country has benefited from, the NHS, sure start centres, an assault
:36:48. > :36:52.on child poverty, the Labour Party got itself in contention for
:36:53. > :36:56.government. I entirely accept the polls do not make thrilling reading
:36:57. > :37:00.for Labour politicians on Sunday morning, but it means people like me
:37:01. > :37:03.have to work harder because we are part of something bigger than an
:37:04. > :37:07.individual, we are in the business of changing things for the British
:37:08. > :37:10.people and if we do not do that, if we do not focus on that, we are
:37:11. > :37:19.letting people down. Is Labour preparing for an early election
:37:20. > :37:24.question Billy burqa? Reports in the press of a war chest as macro for an
:37:25. > :37:28.early election? The general election coordinator called for a general
:37:29. > :37:31.election when Theresa May became Prime Minister. We are investing in
:37:32. > :37:37.staff and the organisational capability we need. By the way, the
:37:38. > :37:42.Labour Party staff do brilliant work. A bit of nonsense on Twitter
:37:43. > :37:45.having a go at them. They do tremendous work. Whenever the
:37:46. > :37:53.election comes, they will be ready. Jon Ashworth, thank you.
:37:54. > :38:04.Hello, you're watching the Sunday Politics
:38:05. > :38:09.Coming up today, we ask what people in our part of the
:38:10. > :38:12.world want to put at the top of the list as we negotiate
:38:13. > :38:16.our exit from the EU - you might be surprised.
:38:17. > :38:20.These are key men in Britain's key industry, and their importance
:38:21. > :38:28.And we ask is renationalisation the way forward
:38:29. > :38:30.for some of our big industries, 70 years after coal
:38:31. > :38:36.And we are joined today by Robert Goodwill,
:38:37. > :38:38.the Immigration Minister and Conservative MP for Scarborough
:38:39. > :38:40.and Whitby, and also by Rachel Maskell, Labour
:38:41. > :38:46.Well, of course it has been an historic week, the formal
:38:47. > :38:49.negotiations to leave the EU are now underway.
:38:50. > :38:53.And Boston in Lincolnshire has become known as the Brexit capital
:38:54. > :38:59.of the country, with three quarters of those who voted wanting to leave
:39:00. > :39:02.So now the process has finally got underway, Kate Sweeting
:39:03. > :39:06.went back to Boston to find out how the town's EU residents are feeling
:39:07. > :39:16.For 12 years Hana has lived and worked in Boston.
:39:17. > :39:19.But they are Czech rather than British nationals,
:39:20. > :39:22.and since the Brexit vote she says their future
:39:23. > :39:28.I haven't cried as much in my life as I've cried since Brexit.
:39:29. > :39:31.It's like a blank, we don't know what's going to
:39:32. > :39:35.We still don't know what this Brexit thing will mean for us.
:39:36. > :39:39.Do you worry about anything to do with Brexit?
:39:40. > :39:46.It's just about there's going to be some stress and some, like, I'm
:39:47. > :39:49.just going to lose my friends, and things like that.
:39:50. > :39:51.But efforts are being made to make Boston's many foreign
:39:52. > :39:57.The town's iconic church, known as the
:39:58. > :40:01.Boston Stump, now has a multilingual chapel to encourage people of all
:40:02. > :40:08.I have seen what has been happening post Brexit.
:40:09. > :40:10.I've made connections with lots of people from different
:40:11. > :40:13.communities and there is a very positive
:40:14. > :40:20.community where people celebrate living here.
:40:21. > :40:23.And even some of those who voted to leave the EU want
:40:24. > :40:30.better integration between Boston's different communities.
:40:31. > :40:33.One Leave voter has set up a Facebook group
:40:34. > :40:35.called Boston More In Common, to encourage that.
:40:36. > :40:37.Boston seemed to be at that point going nowhere and we
:40:38. > :40:40.got a lot of people that were from Eastern Europe and I wanted to
:40:41. > :40:43.become friends with those people and try
:40:44. > :40:48.problems that Boston has with some of the people on both sides.
:40:49. > :40:52.Here in Boston more than 75% of voters opted
:40:53. > :40:56.to leave the European Union in last June's referendum.
:40:57. > :40:59.Nine months on, the process to make that happen has
:41:00. > :41:04.So what do people here hope that will mean for them?
:41:05. > :41:06.I never wanted to come out from it anyway.
:41:07. > :41:09.So I'm hoping that things won't change too much.
:41:10. > :41:11.Has life been different here since the vote?
:41:12. > :41:15.I think it has changed the town, not for the better but for
:41:16. > :41:21.Hopefully the people that are here for that many years,
:41:22. > :41:22.nothing will change, basically, much.
:41:23. > :41:29.Things might change but hopefully for the best.
:41:30. > :41:33.For Hana, life has certainly not been better since the EU referendum.
:41:34. > :41:35.But she hopes that now the official Brexit process has
:41:36. > :41:41.begun she will at least get some clarity on the future.
:41:42. > :41:42.That was Kate Sweeting reporting there.
:41:43. > :41:45.Robert Goodwill, as the Immigration Minister, what do you say to people
:41:46. > :41:52.in Boston and elsewhere across our patch, EU migrants
:41:53. > :41:55.who are worried they may not be allowed to remain here?
:41:56. > :41:58.Well, I say what I've been saying since the referendum, that it
:41:59. > :42:01.is our priority to secure the status of EU nationals living here and
:42:02. > :42:03.indeed the only circumstance where that wouldn't be possible
:42:04. > :42:06.would be if the status of British nationals living abroad in the rest
:42:07. > :42:08.of Europe weren't similarly protected.
:42:09. > :42:11.That's a real priority and it's a shame we couldn't have
:42:12. > :42:14.got that sorted out even before Article 50 was triggered.
:42:15. > :42:17.So they are effectively bargaining chips, people working
:42:18. > :42:20.here, paying their taxes, you can't offer them any guarantees?
:42:21. > :42:23.There are not bargaining chips at all.
:42:24. > :42:25.It strikes me as fairly straightforward that we can secure
:42:26. > :42:28.their status, and as soon as we get around the negotiating table I'm
:42:29. > :42:30.sure that the rest of Europe would want to
:42:31. > :42:35.same rights - the pensioners in Spain, the engineers in Germany -
:42:36. > :42:40.protects all 4 million people living in a country other than their own,
:42:41. > :42:43.rather than just the 3 million that we wish to, really,
:42:44. > :42:47.as soon as possible, secure their status.
:42:48. > :42:49.Rachel Maskell do you accept that the majority
:42:50. > :42:50.of people who voted to
:42:51. > :42:52.leave the European Union, and there were plenty
:42:53. > :42:56.weren't in a majority there, that they did
:42:57. > :42:57.so with an expectation that
:42:58. > :43:02.Well, the reality is that so many people in
:43:03. > :43:05.York, the city I represent, want to ensure that EU
:43:06. > :43:08.citizens are here to stay, and I've just come from a
:43:09. > :43:10.meeting with EU citizens who are incredibly worried about their
:43:11. > :43:15.The reality is the Government could have said on the
:43:16. > :43:18.24th of June that they could remain here and could have guaranteed their
:43:19. > :43:21.future, but have chosen to use them as bargaining chips.
:43:22. > :43:23.These are people with families and lives, and
:43:24. > :43:26.want to know the security of their future.
:43:27. > :43:30.We are already seeing the impact it is having on our NHS as
:43:31. > :43:33.people are choosing not to come here because of the uncertainty over
:43:34. > :43:37.It is a dangerous path the Government have chosen but also
:43:38. > :43:42.And therefore labour are urging the Government to think again
:43:43. > :43:46.It's interesting, Robert, because David
:43:47. > :43:49.Davis, the Brexit secretary, this week said he believed immigration
:43:50. > :43:54.might carry on rising for many years after Brexit.
:43:55. > :43:57.Do you not think that will shock many of the people who
:43:58. > :44:00.Well, we will be able to control the numbers of
:44:01. > :44:02.people coming in, it will be within our power.
:44:03. > :44:04.Free movement will no longer be there.
:44:05. > :44:07.But it is true, industries in the UK, indeed, the UK
:44:08. > :44:10.has created more jobs since 2010 than the rest of Europe put
:44:11. > :44:13.together, so it is little wonder that people are coming here to find
:44:14. > :44:16.a job because their own governments have failed to create jobs for them.
:44:17. > :44:24.We have set our target to reduce it to the
:44:25. > :44:26.You've failed miserably so far to meet that target.
:44:27. > :44:29.Well, while the most recent figure shows a 50,000 fall or a
:44:30. > :44:31.49,000 fall, so that is starting to happen.
:44:32. > :44:34.And we have taken measures to address immigration from outside
:44:35. > :44:37.the EU in a number of ways - we have closed down the bogus language
:44:38. > :44:39.schools, we have clamped down on sham marriages.
:44:40. > :44:42.We will be able to bring measures forward to enable us
:44:43. > :44:43.to control the numbers coming from Europe.
:44:44. > :44:45.And indeed we need to talk to industry,
:44:46. > :44:48.the agricultural sector, etc, to find out what
:44:49. > :44:49.level of employment is
:44:50. > :44:53.But also, more importantly, we need to train British people to
:44:54. > :44:56.take those jobs, and that is maybe where we have failed in the past.
:44:57. > :45:01.Are they genuinely saying they want fewer
:45:02. > :45:05.No, I have been lobbied by the NFU to keep them
:45:06. > :45:08.But, actually, it is interesting that the Bulgarians and
:45:09. > :45:09.Romanians are still coming here in large numbers.
:45:10. > :45:11.They understand there are jobs here to take.
:45:12. > :45:14.We are very pleased that they are coming
:45:15. > :45:16.and we want to secure their statuses, as I have already said.
:45:17. > :45:19.But we cannot allow the status of British nationals abroad not
:45:20. > :45:22.Rachel Maskell, you resigned from Labour's
:45:23. > :45:27.front bench in protest at the party's position over Brexit.
:45:28. > :45:30.Now that the negotiations are underway,
:45:31. > :45:33.do you accept you have to get behind Brexit
:45:34. > :45:38.We obviously want to see the best outcome for the country.
:45:39. > :45:40.But what the country didn't vote for was
:45:41. > :45:42.to leave the single market and leave the customs union.
:45:43. > :45:44.And yet the Prime Minister is driving the hardest of
:45:45. > :45:47.Brexits instead of ensuring that businesses will have that confidence
:45:48. > :45:50.and security, and we are already seeing the lack of foreign
:45:51. > :45:54.investment, we are seeing already able exiting our country through
:45:55. > :45:58.And when we talk about the farming and food sectors, which are
:45:59. > :46:02.so dependent on EU migrant labour, we know that they are incredibly
:46:03. > :46:05.insecure, even to know who is going to pick the fruit
:46:06. > :46:11.It is putting our country on a knife edge unnecessarily.
:46:12. > :46:13.And when the Government are talking about the
:46:14. > :46:15.future will be secure because we will have
:46:16. > :46:20.world, we know that when the leaders have spoken to India, they said,
:46:21. > :46:24.yes, we will have a trade deal, but we want free movement with that.
:46:25. > :46:25.So I think really the Government need
:46:26. > :46:29.to come to terms with the insecurity they are building across the nation
:46:30. > :46:33.for business but also for people in their communities.
:46:34. > :46:37.I think there is a feeling of optimism
:46:38. > :46:40.And, unlike Rachel, I think we should trust the people.
:46:41. > :46:45.Democracy is something our country is built on.
:46:46. > :46:48.A Democratic vote gave us that mandate to leave the
:46:49. > :46:50.People knew what they were voting for.
:46:51. > :46:53.That mandate didn't say leave the single market.
:46:54. > :46:55.It didn't say leave the customs union.
:46:56. > :46:58.Nobody was asked that question and yet the Prime Minister, unelected,
:46:59. > :47:00.has driven through her own agenda to appease
:47:01. > :47:05.I think people were quite clear when they cast their
:47:06. > :47:09.They were voting for decisions to be made
:47:10. > :47:11.in London, not in Brussels, and they understood
:47:12. > :47:15.I don't subscribe to this view that the British people, people who
:47:16. > :47:17.voted Brexit were stupid or didn't understand...
:47:18. > :47:20.But when you talk to the farming community they didn't want
:47:21. > :47:23.to be part of the common agricultural policy because they
:47:24. > :47:25.didn't believe that was best serving them.
:47:26. > :47:27.But they did want to be part of the single market.
:47:28. > :47:29.And we certainly know that our jobs and our
:47:30. > :47:33.Which is why we need a good trade deal,
:47:34. > :47:35.and I'm confident Theresa May will deliver that for us.
:47:36. > :47:37.Well, hang on, because our cameras were out and
:47:38. > :47:40.about across the patch this week as Theresa May began
:47:41. > :47:45.Here is what a selection of people had to say.
:47:46. > :47:49.We don't see that Brexit will hold us up in any way.
:47:50. > :47:52.It is what it is and so we are just going ahead very positively.
:47:53. > :47:56.They are doing an excellent job here.
:47:57. > :47:59.I think it would be crazy if they had to go back.
:48:00. > :48:02.Our fishermen having the right to fish where they like.
:48:03. > :48:05.And our grounds closed to foreigners.
:48:06. > :48:07.That's what I'd like to see but whether it
:48:08. > :48:19.I'd hope that maybe it means we've got more
:48:20. > :48:22.freedom as a country, but then at the same
:48:23. > :48:27.the EU gives us a bit more freedom in terms of trade
:48:28. > :48:38.Because the European Union is going in a bad direction, in my
:48:39. > :48:45.It's time we made us own law and us own rules.
:48:46. > :48:48.We want as good a deal as we had before.
:48:49. > :48:50.I think it is in everybody's interests
:48:51. > :48:55.If I had the choice, I'd like things back to how it used to
:48:56. > :48:58.be, but I know it's never going to be, is it?
:48:59. > :49:02.Rachel Maskell, does that last lady perhaps some up a majority
:49:03. > :49:07.They would feel that for too many years the EU has had
:49:08. > :49:11.Well, it's really interesting, because the White Paper
:49:12. > :49:15.that was produced yesterday, where we thought powers would be
:49:16. > :49:17.repatriated back to Parliament, it seems they are going to be
:49:18. > :49:27.repatriated back to the Prime Minister and the executive.
:49:28. > :49:29.In there they said, in paragraph 313,
:49:30. > :49:32.that they want to make changes to the legislation, not bringing that
:49:33. > :49:34.And paragraph 320 saying, this Henry VIII act,
:49:35. > :49:36.that it won't receive all
:49:37. > :49:40.So what we are seeing, in your own White Paper -
:49:41. > :49:42.you shake your head there, but I have read the White Paper,
:49:43. > :49:45.that there won't be the scrutiny over 1600
:49:46. > :49:46.different regulations that
:49:47. > :49:50.need to get through our Parliament and just one act in two years.
:49:51. > :49:53.Well, out of those hundreds of thousands of
:49:54. > :49:55.regulations, as part of this Great Repeal Bill that we've
:49:56. > :49:58.heard so much about, are there any you would like
:49:59. > :50:00.I think the Great Repeal Bill makes absolute
:50:01. > :50:04.common-sense that we transfer the Aki as it is called on to our
:50:05. > :50:05.statute book and then we can revisit that
:50:06. > :50:07.to see how we can ensure that
:50:08. > :50:13.we can particularly address the type of regulation we want to get rid of.
:50:14. > :50:15.For example, we were all very frustrated in Parliament that we
:50:16. > :50:18.couldn't scrap the tampon tax because of EU regulation on the
:50:19. > :50:23.So there is a number of areas we need to look
:50:24. > :50:24.at, but we don't need an overnight revolution.
:50:25. > :50:27.Most of that legislation in terms of the environment, in
:50:28. > :50:29.terms of products, in terms of consumer
:50:30. > :50:30.safety, is regulations we
:50:31. > :50:34.But once we have it all transferred we
:50:35. > :50:36.can then revisit that at our leisure.
:50:37. > :50:38.But you're White Paper doesn't say that.
:50:39. > :50:40.I suggest you go and read that White Paper because it
:50:41. > :50:44.talks about making changes and the Government wouldn't want to be
:50:45. > :50:47.constrained in just bringing everything back over, so it is very
:50:48. > :50:52.For example, quite a lot of this legislation refers to institutions
:50:53. > :50:55.in the European Union that we won't be members of.
:50:56. > :50:57.So so if it talks about the European food
:50:58. > :50:59.standards authority, food safety authority,
:51:00. > :51:03.Those are the sort of changes we are talking about.
:51:04. > :51:04.Not the fundamental sort of changes that
:51:05. > :51:09.Can I ask you briefly, you are Immigration Minister, you are in
:51:10. > :51:10.charge of passports, the question a lot of
:51:11. > :51:12.people ask, it has been in a
:51:13. > :51:15.lot of the newspapers, are we going to get back
:51:16. > :51:18.the traditional dark blue British passport?
:51:19. > :51:20.Well, we are certainly looking at the design of the passport.
:51:21. > :51:23.It won't have the European Union on the front, it will
:51:24. > :51:26.be a British passport, and I think it has to be watch this space
:51:27. > :51:30.because we are looking at this, not only at the cover but what we are
:51:31. > :51:37.Well, a new exhibition has opened at the
:51:38. > :51:40.National coal mining Museum in Wakefield, marking the 70th
:51:41. > :51:43.anniversary of the nationalisation of the coal industry.
:51:44. > :51:45.Of course, deep coal mining in our part of the
:51:46. > :51:49.world is pretty much now a distant memory after the last pit
:51:50. > :51:54.But the political debate over nationalisation of other industries
:51:55. > :52:00.These are key men in Britain's key industry, and their
:52:01. > :52:05.The Second World War was over and Britain was trying
:52:06. > :52:12.Coal meant power, power meant progress, so the struggling
:52:13. > :52:14.mining industry was brought into public ownership.
:52:15. > :52:20.The output that was needed to rebuild Britain
:52:21. > :52:23.couldn't have happened under private ownership, so nationalisation
:52:24. > :52:26.allowed that massive influx of investment to be made and it
:52:27. > :52:31.certainly brought huge positive changes.
:52:32. > :52:34.But I think nationalisation wasn't the cure for all ills.
:52:35. > :52:38.It wasn't the fix that people expected it to be.
:52:39. > :52:40.There was actually a huge number of strikes that happened
:52:41. > :52:48.post-rationalisation within the industry.
:52:49. > :52:51.So I think even the NCB themselves were aware they hadn't
:52:52. > :52:54.These images deliberately romanticise the newly nationalised
:52:55. > :53:07.But even in the present, debates about the pros and cons of
:53:08. > :53:10.In this exhibition seeks to provoke debate.
:53:11. > :53:12.There is even a fantasy Question Time panel, featuring
:53:13. > :53:14.figures who have impacted one way or another on industries
:53:15. > :53:17.For the artist it has been a unique challenge.
:53:18. > :53:20.It's trying to get underneath the skin of them as well
:53:21. > :53:25.and understand the motivation or the stories behind even the famous
:53:26. > :53:31.people, I think, and show maybe a bit of a hidden side if possible.
:53:32. > :53:38.Here it was hard not to go too far on Margaret Thatcher.
:53:39. > :53:40.There's no way you can push politics aside here.
:53:41. > :53:44.While clearly nationalisation wasn't a panacea, many former miners say it
:53:45. > :53:47.brought the kind of security that vanished when the industry returned
:53:48. > :53:53.The problem we had over the last 20 years is that we
:53:54. > :53:57.didn't have the security we had before and April were forever
:53:58. > :54:00.looking over their shoulders wondering when is their job going to
:54:01. > :54:04.Whereas when I first started, in 1971, you didn't have
:54:05. > :54:08.You went to the pit, you'd got a job for life.
:54:09. > :54:10.Deep mining's story may be over but this
:54:11. > :54:13.chapter at least is being remembered.
:54:14. > :54:17.We must not let any area become derelict if it can possibly
:54:18. > :54:24.These areas therefore still have a big part to play in our
:54:25. > :54:29.We know what their faults are and there is a
:54:30. > :54:33.bitter legacy of memories of the terrible depressed areas,
:54:34. > :54:41.Some of you older viewers might remember him.
:54:42. > :54:44.Let me ask you, Rachel Maskell, we know Jeremy Corbyn is a big fan of
:54:45. > :54:47.nationalised industries, he has talked about nationalising the
:54:48. > :54:50.He even talked about nationalising energy.
:54:51. > :54:52.Has nationalisation become a dirty word?
:54:53. > :54:55.Well, the first thing we want to do is we
:54:56. > :54:56.nationalise the NHS, 9% now in
:54:57. > :54:59.the private sector, so we do see the real
:55:00. > :55:04.We know there is such chaos in parts of
:55:05. > :55:06.our railway system because of the fragmentation that
:55:07. > :55:16.I doubt there are many rail passengers that don't get those
:55:17. > :55:18.frustrations as they are having to deal with different
:55:19. > :55:21.And of course the mess now created in Southern Rail.
:55:22. > :55:25.And of course what the 1945 Government did
:55:26. > :55:27.with nationalisation was to create good quality jobs.
:55:28. > :55:29.And when we have 910,000 people today - Robert talked
:55:30. > :55:34.about creation of jobs - 910,000 people on zero-hour
:55:35. > :55:38.contracts, people in insecure labour today, 80% of the
:55:39. > :55:42.new jobs created since 2010 being self-employed, where the average
:55:43. > :55:46.wage is ?11,000 or less, it is time that we really ensure that we
:55:47. > :55:51.have a strong industrial strategy for good employment in the future.
:55:52. > :55:53.Well, it's interesting, Robert Goodwill, because...
:55:54. > :55:57.But there was a Yougov poll a couple of years ago
:55:58. > :55:59.that said the majority of the British public, including
:56:00. > :56:02.conservative voters, would support the renationalisation of the
:56:03. > :56:05.railways and also the energy industry, if it had cheaper rail
:56:06. > :56:09.So you can't totally dismiss this, can you?
:56:10. > :56:12.If you look at some of the industries that were nationalise
:56:13. > :56:15.that are now in the private sector, look at Jaguar Land Rover and the
:56:16. > :56:21.These are companies that have done really
:56:22. > :56:25.And, indeed, Rachel mentioned the problems on Southern Rail.
:56:26. > :56:27.I think that has more to do with the unions
:56:28. > :56:31.and their industrial action, and the fact that the investment
:56:32. > :56:34.in the new rolling stock that the workers won't
:56:35. > :56:37.The model of franchising that we have in the UK
:56:38. > :56:39.is one that has been copied around Europe.
:56:40. > :56:41.National Express recently got a franchise in Germany.
:56:42. > :56:43.They have seen the advantage of bringing
:56:44. > :56:45.private sector investment and private sector know-how into the
:56:46. > :56:48.But the British taxpayer subsidises the rail industry to the
:56:49. > :56:53.Much of that money goes to foreign rail companies.
:56:54. > :56:55.The Government might as well be running the railways.
:56:56. > :56:57.The money that is going into the rail
:56:58. > :56:59.sector is investment in the infrastructure, in improving the
:57:00. > :57:03.network, new stations in Birmingham, better
:57:04. > :57:08.And indeed new rolling stock that we've seen in the
:57:09. > :57:11.north of England so we can get rid of those dreadful Pacer trains.
:57:12. > :57:15.Since privatisation we have seen the more
:57:16. > :57:18.than doubling of rail ridership up to 1.6 billion per year.
:57:19. > :57:20.So it has been a success story but we
:57:21. > :57:23.still need to do a lot more in terms of investment.
:57:24. > :57:26.I wish we could bring the rail unions with us in actually
:57:27. > :57:30.On that very point, the reason why there has
:57:31. > :57:31.been industrial action on
:57:32. > :57:36.the Southern Rail has been about public safety and the fact there
:57:37. > :57:38.have been a number of incidents on trains
:57:39. > :57:41.presence of guards, and what they are saying
:57:42. > :57:44.is we want to ensure we put the public safe in the future.
:57:45. > :57:48.And that is what is so important with a safety critical industry, and
:57:49. > :57:52.that is why workers will always think about their passengers first.
:57:53. > :57:55.And therefore to try and put "Unions bad,
:57:56. > :57:59.Private good" in that old Tory argument, really does not fit
:58:00. > :58:01.with the reality of the industrial situation.
:58:02. > :58:04.Unions are great, they represent their workers, they do a
:58:05. > :58:07.lot of good work, but in this case they really don't seem to understand
:58:08. > :58:10.that that new technology, the driver only operated trains,
:58:11. > :58:13.they can see all the doors from the cab, we
:58:14. > :58:15.weren't making anyone redundant in that case,
:58:16. > :58:17.we just want to have that new technology...
:58:18. > :58:20.Unions fight not only for jobs and themselves but
:58:21. > :58:24.also for the public and for public interest and public safety.
:58:25. > :58:26.They've made a very clear case which cannot
:58:27. > :58:30.be argued against, the fact the public have been put at risk
:58:31. > :58:33.And, incidentally, if anyone wants a job
:58:34. > :58:37.as a miner, come up to Scarborough where we've just got 1000 vacancies
:58:38. > :58:41.The new Sirius potash mine has started work, there
:58:42. > :58:43.will be 1000 jobs for miners there, well paid jobs.
:58:44. > :58:47.A private sector investment creating jobs in the mining industry.
:58:48. > :58:49.We've got a lovely image of a pithead behind us.
:58:50. > :58:51.Let me ask you, Rachel Maskell, in the USA
:58:52. > :58:56.this week Donald Trump has reversed Barack Obama's so-called "war
:58:57. > :58:59.He says he wants to protect the industry, preserve jobs.
:59:00. > :59:02.Would you like to congratulate President Trump?
:59:03. > :59:05.I want to project our environment for the future as well
:59:06. > :59:08.and therefore putting the investment in renewable energy
:59:09. > :59:12.And certainly I would say we have so much resource here, as
:59:13. > :59:16.have the US, in being able to put that investment in, and then we'll
:59:17. > :59:19.get really good, sustainable jobs coming out of that.
:59:20. > :59:22.But also we won't be reaping havoc over our climate.
:59:23. > :59:26.And the reality is climate change is now the biggest challenge
:59:27. > :59:29.facing governments, and yet this Government has withdrawn
:59:30. > :59:32.from the renewable agenda, and seems to be drawing back
:59:33. > :59:35.from the opportunities we've got to really be world leaders in this
:59:36. > :59:39.Maybe, many people will say it's frustrating, we still got
:59:40. > :59:42.tonnes of coal under the ground on which we stand.
:59:43. > :59:47.I mean, the stone age didn't finish because we ran out stone.
:59:48. > :59:49.We've moved on to better technology, more renewables,
:59:50. > :59:54.nuclear, cleaner types of energy, gas, which of course is cleaner to
:59:55. > :59:57.burn than coal, so we do need to understand the importance of meeting
:59:58. > :00:05.But we are failing on that because we have dropped out of the top ten
:00:06. > :00:09.A return to coal, as President Trump is suggesting, is not the answer.
:00:10. > :00:11.Before we go, Wednesday was a memorable day -
:00:12. > :00:14.not just the Brexit but for the Morley and Outwood MP
:00:15. > :00:18.Andrea Jenkyns, whose baby son Clifford was born.
:00:19. > :00:21.She received a congratulatory message from
:00:22. > :00:24.colleagues and speaker at John Bercow.
:00:25. > :00:26.And he also extended congratulations to her partner, who
:00:27. > :00:31.I think it right also to congratulate the
:00:32. > :00:33.honourable gentleman, the member for Filton and Bradley Stoke,
:00:34. > :00:37.who I think had some hand in the matter as well.
:00:38. > :00:41.You are always welcome on our programme, of course.
:00:42. > :00:44.Sometimes babies make more sense than the guests we have
:00:45. > :00:49.Thank you very much to our guests today -
:00:50. > :00:52.to Robert Goodwill and to Rachel Maskell.
:00:53. > :00:55.Now let's hand back to Andrew Neill in London.
:00:56. > :01:06.We'll be back after the Easter break.
:01:07. > :01:09.So, what will be the effect of new tax and benefit changes
:01:10. > :01:13.Will the Government's grand trade tour reap benefits?
:01:14. > :01:15.And are the Lib Dems really going to replace Labour,
:01:16. > :01:27.To answer that last question, I'm joined by from Salford
:01:28. > :01:32.by the Lib Dem MP, Alistair Carmichael.
:01:33. > :01:41.Michael Fallon sirs the Lib Dems will replace Labour. How long will
:01:42. > :01:46.it take? We will have to wait and see. Anyone who thinks you can
:01:47. > :01:52.predict the future is engaged in a dodgy game. I have been campaigning
:01:53. > :01:57.with the Liberal Democrats in Manchester... You must not
:01:58. > :02:04.mention... You know the by-election rules. It is only an illustration.
:02:05. > :02:14.Across false ways of the country, the Liberal Democrats are back in
:02:15. > :02:18.business -- across whole swathes of the country. Part of the reason why
:02:19. > :02:23.we are getting a good response is because the Labour Party under
:02:24. > :02:28.Jeremy Corbyn has taken such a self-destructive path. Even if you
:02:29. > :02:31.do pretty well in the local elections, it you have to make up
:02:32. > :02:38.lost ground from the time you did very well in previous times, you
:02:39. > :02:43.used to have 4700 councillors. It will take you a long while to get
:02:44. > :02:47.back to that. You will get no argument from me that we have a
:02:48. > :02:52.mountain to climb. What I'm telling you is, and if this is not just in
:02:53. > :02:57.this round of elections, it is in the other by-elections in places
:02:58. > :03:02.like Richmond, and in by-elections write the length and breadth of the
:03:03. > :03:05.country since last June, the Liberal Democrats are taking seats from the
:03:06. > :03:13.Labour Party under Conservative Party, and not just in Brexit phobic
:03:14. > :03:17.areas. Not just in Remain areas. But in places like Sunderland as well
:03:18. > :03:24.which voted very heavily for Brexit. In fact, that vote was in large part
:03:25. > :03:28.as well a protest against the way in which the Labour Party really has
:03:29. > :03:33.taken these areas for granted over the years. That is why the ground is
:03:34. > :03:39.fertile for us. In the local elections which is what we are
:03:40. > :03:43.discussing today, why would anybody vote for the Liberal Democrats if
:03:44. > :03:51.they believed in Brexit? Mr Farren has said he wants to reverse works.
:03:52. > :03:55.If you are Brexit supporter and you are considering how to cast your
:03:56. > :03:59.vote, first of all, I think you will be looking at the quality of
:04:00. > :04:03.representation you can get for your local area and you are right, we
:04:04. > :04:12.have a lot of ground to recoup from previous elections, we lost 124
:04:13. > :04:17.seats, communities have now had a few years to reflect on the quality
:04:18. > :04:20.of service they have been able to get and they have missed the very
:04:21. > :04:26.effective liberal Democrat councillors they have had. This is
:04:27. > :04:31.not just about whether you are a believer or remainer, ultimately,
:04:32. > :04:36.that is an issue we are going to have to settle and we will settle it
:04:37. > :04:41.not in the way the Government is having by dictating the terms of the
:04:42. > :04:45.debate, but by bringing the whole country together. I think that is
:04:46. > :04:50.something you can only do if, as we have suggested, you give the people
:04:51. > :04:53.the opportunity to have a say on the deal when Theresa May eventually
:04:54. > :04:58.produces it. The only way you could really replace Labour in the
:04:59. > :05:04.foreseeable future would be if a big chunk of the centre and right of the
:05:05. > :05:09.Labour Party came over and join due in some kind of new social
:05:10. > :05:14.democratic alliance. -- joined you. There is no sign that will happen? I
:05:15. > :05:17.do not see whether common purpose is anymore holding the Labour Party
:05:18. > :05:23.together. That is for people in the Labour Party to make their own
:05:24. > :05:30.decisions. Use what happened to the Labour Party in Scotland. -- you
:05:31. > :05:35.saw. Politics moved on and left them behind and they were decimated as a
:05:36. > :05:39.consequence of that. So was your party. It is possible the same thing
:05:40. > :05:44.could happen to the Labour Party and the rest of the UK. Politics is
:05:45. > :05:51.moving on and they are coming up with 1970s solutions to problems in
:05:52. > :05:56.2017. Alistair Carmichael, thanks for joining us. Let us have a look
:05:57. > :06:03.at some of the tax and benefit changes coming up this week. The tax
:06:04. > :06:07.changes first of all. The personal allowance is going to rise to
:06:08. > :06:12.?11,500, the level at which you start to pay tax. The higher rate
:06:13. > :06:18.threshold, where you start to play at 40%, that will rise from
:06:19. > :06:27.currently ?43,400, rising up to 40 5000. -- pay. Benefit changes,
:06:28. > :06:33.freeze on working age benefits, removal of the family element of tax
:06:34. > :06:38.credits and universal credit, that is a technical change but quite an
:06:39. > :06:44.impact. The child element of tax credit is going to be limited to two
:06:45. > :06:51.children on any new claims. The Resolution Foundation has crunched
:06:52. > :06:58.the numbers and they discovered that when you take the tax and benefit
:06:59. > :07:06.changes together, 80% go to better off households and the poorest third
:07:07. > :07:11.or worse. What help -- what happened to help the just about managing? The
:07:12. > :07:15.Resolution Foundation exists to find the worst possible statistics... It
:07:16. > :07:21.is not clear the figures are wrong? They are fairly recent figures and I
:07:22. > :07:25.have not seen analysis by other organisations. The Adam Smith
:07:26. > :07:29.Institute will probably have some question marks over it. Nobody
:07:30. > :07:33.should be surprised a Tory government is trying to make the
:07:34. > :07:40.state smaller... And the poor poorer. The system is propped up by
:07:41. > :07:43.better off people and so it will be those people who will be slightly
:07:44. > :07:51.less heavily taxed as you make the state smaller. Theresa May will have
:07:52. > :07:55.to stop just talking about the just about managing. And some of her
:07:56. > :07:59.other language and the role of the government and the state when she
:08:00. > :08:04.sounded quite positive... She sounded like a big government
:08:05. > :08:08.conservative not small government. In every set piece occasion, she
:08:09. > :08:16.says, it is time to look at the good the government can do. That is not
:08:17. > :08:20.what you heard from Mrs Thatcher. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown would
:08:21. > :08:25.not have dared to say it either even if they believed it. It raises a
:08:26. > :08:32.much bigger question which is, as well as whether this is a set of
:08:33. > :08:36.progressive measures, the Resolution Foundation constantly argued when
:08:37. > :08:39.George Osborne announced his budget measures as progressive when they
:08:40. > :08:43.were regressive when they checked out the figures, but also how this
:08:44. > :08:48.government was going to meet the demand for public services when it
:08:49. > :08:52.has ruled out virtually any tax rises that you would normally do
:08:53. > :08:58.now, including National Insurance. There are a whole range of nightmare
:08:59. > :09:02.issues on Philip Hammond's in-tray in relation to tax. The Resolution
:09:03. > :09:07.Foundation figures do not include the rise in the minimum wage which
:09:08. > :09:11.has just gone under way. They do not include the tax free childcare from
:09:12. > :09:16.the end of April, the extra 15 hours of free childcare from September.
:09:17. > :09:20.Even when you include these, it does not look like it would offset the
:09:21. > :09:25.losses of the poorest households. Doesn't that have to be a problem
:09:26. > :09:29.for Theresa May? It really is a problem especially when her
:09:30. > :09:34.narrative and indeed entire purpose in government is for that just about
:09:35. > :09:39.managing. What Mrs May still has which is exactly a problem they have
:09:40. > :09:41.at the budget and the Autumn Statement is that they are still
:09:42. > :09:48.saddled with George Osborne's massive ring fences on tax cuts and
:09:49. > :09:52.spending. They have to go through with the tax cut for the middle
:09:53. > :09:56.classes by pushing up the higher rate threshold which is absolutely
:09:57. > :10:00.going to do nothing for the just about managing. When they try to
:10:01. > :10:03.mitigate that, for example, in the Autumn Statement, Philip Hammond was
:10:04. > :10:08.told to come up with more money to ease the cuts in tax credits, came
:10:09. > :10:14.up with 350 million, an absolute... It is billions and billions
:10:15. > :10:17.involved. Marginal adjustment. A huge problem with the actual tax and
:10:18. > :10:22.benefit changes going on with what Mrs May as saying. The only way to
:10:23. > :10:26.fix it is coming up with more money to alleviate that. Where will you
:10:27. > :10:30.find it? Philip Hammond tried in the Budget with the National Insurance
:10:31. > :10:36.rises but it lasted six and a half days. I was told that it was one of
:10:37. > :10:41.the reasons why the Chancellor looked kindly on the idea of an
:10:42. > :10:46.early election because he wanted to get rid of what he regards as an
:10:47. > :10:50.albatross around his neck, the Tory manifesto 2015, no increase in
:10:51. > :10:56.income tax, no increase in VAT, no increase in National Insurance, fuel
:10:57. > :10:59.duty was not cut when fuel prices were falling so it is hardly going
:11:00. > :11:06.to rise now when they are rising again. This is why, I suggest, they
:11:07. > :11:10.end up in these incredibly complicated what we used to call
:11:11. > :11:15.stealth taxes as ways of trying to raise money and invariably a blow up
:11:16. > :11:20.in your face. Stealth taxes never end up being stealthy. It is part of
:11:21. > :11:26.the narrative that budget begins to fall apart within hours. You have to
:11:27. > :11:29.have sympathy, as Tom says, with Philip Hammond. No wonder he would
:11:30. > :11:33.like to be liberated. The early election will not happen. The best
:11:34. > :11:38.argument I have heard for an early election. The tax and spend about at
:11:39. > :11:43.the last election was a disaster partly because the Conservatives
:11:44. > :11:48.feared they would lose. Maybe they could be a bit more candid about the
:11:49. > :11:54.need to put up some taxes to pay for public services and it is very
:11:55. > :11:57.interesting what you picked up on Philip Hammond because he is
:11:58. > :12:05.trapped. So constrained about... You can also reopen the Ring fencing and
:12:06. > :12:10.spending and the obvious place to go is the triple lock, OAP spending.
:12:11. > :12:16.Another case for an election. He cannot undo the promise to that
:12:17. > :12:20.demographic. We will not get to 2020 without something breaking. The
:12:21. > :12:27.Prime Minister, the trade secretary and Mr Hammond, they are off to
:12:28. > :12:33.India, the Far East, talking up trade with these countries, I do not
:12:34. > :12:38.know if any of you are going? Sadly not. Will it produce dividends? The
:12:39. > :12:45.prime Minster is going somewhere too. No, it will not, the honest
:12:46. > :12:48.answer. No one will do a trade deal with us because we cannot do one
:12:49. > :12:52.because we are still in the EU and they need to know what our terms
:12:53. > :12:56.will be with the EU first before they can work out how they want to
:12:57. > :13:00.trade with us. This is vital preparatory work. Ministers always
:13:01. > :13:04.go somewhere in recess, it is what they do. We will not see anything in
:13:05. > :13:10.a hurry, we will not see anything for two years. They have to do it.
:13:11. > :13:16.Whatever side of the joint you are on, Brexit, remain, we need to get
:13:17. > :13:19.out there. -- the argument. We should have been doing this the day
:13:20. > :13:23.after the referendum result. It is now several months down the line and
:13:24. > :13:30.they need to step it up, not the opposite. You can make some informal
:13:31. > :13:34.talks, I guess. You can say, Britain is open for business. There is a
:13:35. > :13:39.symbolism to it. What a lot of energy sucked up into this.
:13:40. > :13:45.Parliament is not sitting so they might as well start talking. We have
:13:46. > :13:50.run out of energy and time. That is it for today. We are off for the
:13:51. > :13:54.Easter recess, back in two weeks' time. If it is Sunday, it is the
:13:55. > :14:23.Sunday Politics. Unless it is that used to recess! -- Easter recess.
:14:24. > :14:26.Marine Le Pen has her eyes on the French presidency.
:14:27. > :14:29.As she tries to distance herself from her party's controversial past,
:14:30. > :14:34.we follow the money and ask, "Who's funding her campaign?"