:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.The local election results made grim reading for Labour.
:00:44. > :00:47.With just a month to go until the general election,
:00:48. > :00:51.will promising to rule out tax rises for all but the well off help
:00:52. > :00:56.The Conservatives have their own announcement on mental health,
:00:57. > :00:59.as they strain every sinew to insist they don't think they've got
:01:00. > :01:06.But is there still really all to play for?
:01:07. > :01:10.And tonight we will find out who is the next
:01:11. > :01:14.President of France - Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen -
:01:15. > :01:17.after an unpredictable campaign that ended with a hack attack
:01:18. > :01:19.Later on the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire:
:01:20. > :01:22.Ukip's leader Paul Nuttall assesses the damage after his party
:01:23. > :01:27.is wiped out across our patch in the local elections.
:01:28. > :01:30.potential impact in marginals next month. If Ukip support continues to
:01:31. > :01:37.evaporate... And joining me for all of that,
:01:38. > :01:41.three journalists ready to analyse the week's politics
:01:42. > :01:44.with all the forensic focus of Diane Abbott
:01:45. > :01:47.preparing for an interview, and all the relaxed,
:01:48. > :01:49.slogan-free banter of Theresa May It's Janan Ganesh, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:50. > :01:55.and Steve Richards. So, the Conservatives are promising,
:01:56. > :02:02.if re-elected, to change mental health laws in England and Wales
:02:03. > :02:05.to tackle discrimination, and they're promising 10,000 more
:02:06. > :02:11.staff working in NHS mental health treatment in England by 2020 -
:02:12. > :02:14.although how that's to be Here's Health Secretary
:02:15. > :02:16.Jeremy Hunt speaking There is a lot of new
:02:17. > :02:24.money going into it. In January, we said we were going
:02:25. > :02:27.to put an extra ?1 billion Does this come from other parts
:02:28. > :02:31.of the NHS, or is it No, it is new money
:02:32. > :02:34.going into the NHS It's not just of course money,
:02:35. > :02:42.it's having the people who deliver these jobs,
:02:43. > :02:44.which is why we need Well, we're joined now from Norwich
:02:45. > :02:48.by the Liberal Democrat health This weekend, they've launched
:02:49. > :02:51.their own health announcement, promising a 1% rise on every income
:02:52. > :03:03.tax band to fund the NHS. Do you welcome the Conservatives
:03:04. > :03:08.putting mental health onto the campaign agenda in the way that they
:03:09. > :03:13.have? I welcome it being on the campaign agenda but I do fear that
:03:14. > :03:18.the announcement is built on thin air. You raised the issue at the
:03:19. > :03:21.start about the 10,000 extra staff, and questions surrounding how it
:03:22. > :03:27.would be paid for. There is no additional money on what they have
:03:28. > :03:33.already announced for the NHS. We know it falls massively short on the
:03:34. > :03:37.expectation of the funding gap which, by 2020, is likely to be
:03:38. > :03:42.about 30 billion. That is not disputed now. Anyone outside of the
:03:43. > :03:46.government, wherever you are on the political spectrum, knows the money
:03:47. > :03:55.going in is simply not enough. So, rather like the claim that they
:03:56. > :03:59.would add 5000 GPs to the workforce by 2020, that is not on target.
:04:00. > :04:05.Latest figures show a fall in the number of GPs. They make these
:04:06. > :04:09.claims, but I'm afraid they are without substance, unless they are
:04:10. > :04:14.prepared to put money behind it. Your party's solution to the money
:04:15. > :04:25.problem is to put a 1% percentage point on all of the bands of income
:04:26. > :04:32.tax to raise more money 20-45. Is that unfair? Most pensioners who
:04:33. > :04:36.consume 40% of NHS spending, but over 65s only pay about 20% of
:04:37. > :04:41.income tax. Are you penalising the younger generations for the health
:04:42. > :04:45.care of an older generation? It is the first step in what we are
:04:46. > :04:51.describing as a 5-point recovery plan for the NHS and care system.
:04:52. > :04:57.So, for what is available to us now, it seems to be the fairest way of
:04:58. > :05:00.bringing in extra resources, income tax is progressive, and is based on
:05:01. > :05:05.your ability to pay for your average British worker. It would be ?3 per
:05:06. > :05:10.week which is the cost of less than two cups of coffee per week. In the
:05:11. > :05:15.longer run, we say that by the end of the next Parliament, we would be
:05:16. > :05:22.able to introduce a dedicated NHS and care tax. Based, probably,
:05:23. > :05:28.around a reformed national insurance system, so it becomes a dedicated
:05:29. > :05:31.NHS and care tax. Interestingly, the former permanent secretary of the
:05:32. > :05:36.Treasury, Nick MacPherson, said clearly that this idea merits
:05:37. > :05:42.further consideration which is the first time anyone for the Treasury
:05:43. > :05:46.has bought into the idea of this. Let me ask you this. You say it is a
:05:47. > :05:51.small amount of tax that people on average incomes will have to pay
:05:52. > :05:56.extra. We are talking about people who have seen no real increases to
:05:57. > :06:01.their income since 2007. They have been struggling to stand still in
:06:02. > :06:06.terms of their own pay, but you are going to add to their tax, and as I
:06:07. > :06:10.said earlier, most of the health care money will then go to
:06:11. > :06:16.pensioners whose incomes have risen by 15%. I'm interested in the
:06:17. > :06:21.fairness of this redistribution? Bearing in mind first of all,
:06:22. > :06:27.Andrew, that the raising of the tax threshold that the Liberal Democrats
:06:28. > :06:32.pushed through in the coalition increased the effective pay in your
:06:33. > :06:37.pocket for basic rate taxpayers by about ?1000. We are talking about a
:06:38. > :06:40.tiny fraction of that. I suppose that you do have to ask, all of us
:06:41. > :06:46.in this country need to ask ourselves this question... Are we
:06:47. > :06:51.prepared to pay, in terms of the average worker, about ?3 extra per
:06:52. > :06:56.week to give us a guarantee that when our loved ones need that care,
:06:57. > :07:01.in their hour of need, perhaps suspected cancer, that care will be
:07:02. > :07:06.available for them? I have heard two cases recently brought my attention.
:07:07. > :07:10.An elderly couple, the wife has a very bad hip. They could not allow
:07:11. > :07:15.the weight to continue. She was told that she would need to wait 26
:07:16. > :07:18.weeks, she was in acute pain. They then deduct paying ?20,000 for
:07:19. > :07:24.private treatment to circumvent waiting time. They hated doing it,
:07:25. > :07:29.because they did not want to jump the queue. But that is what is
:07:30. > :07:32.increasingly happening. Sorry to interrupt, Norman Lamb comedy make
:07:33. > :07:38.very good points but we are short on time today. One final question, it
:07:39. > :07:43.looks like you might have the chance to do any of this, I'm told the best
:07:44. > :07:48.you can hope to do internally is to double the number of seats you have,
:07:49. > :07:53.which would only take you to 18. Do you think that promising to raise
:07:54. > :07:58.people's income tax, even those on average earnings, is a vote winner?
:07:59. > :08:01.I think the people in this country are crying out for politicians to be
:08:02. > :08:08.straight and tenet as it is. At the moment we heading towards a
:08:09. > :08:13.Conservative landslide... -- tell it as it is. But do we want a 1-party
:08:14. > :08:18.state? We are electing a government not only to deal with the crucial
:08:19. > :08:22.Brexit negotiations, but oversee the stewardship of the NHS and funding
:08:23. > :08:25.of our schools, all of these critical issues. We need an
:08:26. > :08:30.effective opposition and with the Labour Party having taken itself off
:08:31. > :08:33.stage, the Liberal Democrats need to provide an effective opposition.
:08:34. > :08:37.Norman Lamb, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you.
:08:38. > :08:41.Labour and Tories are anxious to stress the general election
:08:42. > :08:43.result is not a foregone conclusion, whatever the polls say.
:08:44. > :08:47.Order you just heard Norman Lamb say there that he thought the
:08:48. > :08:50.Conservatives were heading for a landslide...
:08:51. > :08:52.But did Thursday's dramatic set of local election results
:08:53. > :08:56.in England, Scotland and Wales give us a better idea of how the country
:08:57. > :08:59.Here's Emma Vardy with a behind-the-scenes look at how
:09:00. > :09:03.Good morning, it's seven o'clock on Friday, May 5th...
:09:04. > :09:08.The dawn of another results day. Anticipation hung in the air.
:09:09. > :09:13.Early results from the local elections in England suggest
:09:14. > :09:16.there's been a substantial swing from Labour to the Conservatives.
:09:17. > :09:19.While the pros did their thing, I needed breakfast.
:09:20. > :09:22.Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to pinch a sausage.
:09:23. > :09:24.The overnight counts had delivered successes for the Tories.
:09:25. > :09:26.But with most councils only getting started,
:09:27. > :09:31.there was plenty of action still to come.
:09:32. > :09:33.It's not quite the night of Labour's nightmares.
:09:34. > :09:35.There's enough mixed news in Wales, for example -
:09:36. > :09:39.looks like they're about to hold Cardiff - that they'll try and put
:09:40. > :09:46.But in really simple terms, four weeks from a general election,
:09:47. > :09:48.the Tories are going forward and Labour are going backwards.
:09:49. > :09:53.How does it compare being in here to doing the telly?
:09:54. > :10:00.Huw, how do you prepare yourself for a long day of results, then?
:10:01. > :10:05.We're not even on air yet, as you can see, and already
:10:06. > :10:08.in Tory HQ this morning, there's a kind of, "Oh,
:10:09. > :10:11.I'm scared this will make people think the election's just
:10:12. > :10:14.I think leave it like that - perfect.
:10:15. > :10:17.I want the Laura look. This is really good, isn't it?
:10:18. > :10:21.Usually, we're in here for the Daily Politics.
:10:22. > :10:27.But it's been transformed for the Election Results programme.
:10:28. > :10:38.But hours went by without Ukip winning a single seat.
:10:39. > :10:45.The joke going around Lincolnshire County Council today
:10:46. > :10:47.from the Conservatives is that the Tories have eaten
:10:48. > :10:50.We will rebrand and come back strong.
:10:51. > :10:56.Morale, I think, is inevitably going to take a bit of a tumble.
:10:57. > :10:59.Particularly if Theresa May starts backsliding on Brexit.
:11:00. > :11:02.And then I think we will be totally reinvigorated.
:11:03. > :11:04.There are a lot of good people in Ukip and I wouldn't
:11:05. > :11:07.want to say anything unkind, but we all know it's over.
:11:08. > :11:11.Ukip press officer. Difficult job.
:11:12. > :11:16.Ukip weren't the only ones putting a brave face on it.
:11:17. > :11:18.Labour were experiencing their own disaster day too,
:11:19. > :11:22.losing hundreds of seats and seven councils.
:11:23. > :11:27.If the result is what these results appear to indicate,
:11:28. > :11:31.Can we have a quick word for the Sunday Politics?
:11:32. > :11:39.A quick question for Sunday Politics - how are you feeling?
:11:40. > :11:44.Downhearted or fired up for June? Fired up, absolutely fired up.
:11:45. > :11:46.He's fired up. We're going to go out there...
:11:47. > :11:48.We cannot go on with another five years of this.
:11:49. > :11:51.How's it been for you today? Tiring.
:11:52. > :11:54.It always is, but I love elections, I really enjoy them.
:11:55. > :11:59.Yes, you know, obviously we're disappointed at some of the results,
:12:00. > :12:01.it's been a mixed bag, but some opinion polls
:12:02. > :12:06.and commentators predicted we'd be wiped out - we haven't.
:12:07. > :12:08.As for the Lib Dems, not the resurgence they hoped for,
:12:09. > :12:17.After a dead heat in Northumberland, the control of a whole council came
:12:18. > :12:25.The section of England in which we had elections yesterday
:12:26. > :12:29.was the section of England that was most likely to vote Leave.
:12:30. > :12:32.When you go to sleep at night, do you just have election results
:12:33. > :12:39.The answer is if that's still happening, I don't get to sleep.
:12:40. > :12:40.There we go. Maybe practice some yoga...
:12:41. > :12:45.Thank you very much but I have one here.
:12:46. > :12:48.With the introduction of six regional mayors,
:12:49. > :12:51.Labour's Andy Burnham became Mr Manchester.
:12:52. > :12:54.But by the time Corbyn came to celebrate, the new mayor
:12:55. > :13:00.We want you to stay for a second because I've got some
:13:01. > :13:03.I used to present news, as you probably know.
:13:04. > :13:05.I used to present BBC Breakfast in the morning.
:13:06. > :13:08.The SNP had notable successes, ending 40 years of Labour
:13:09. > :13:14.What did you prefer - presenting or politics?
:13:15. > :13:21.And it certainly had been a hard day at the office for some.
:13:22. > :13:25.Ukip's foothold in local government was all but wiped out,
:13:26. > :13:27.leaving the Conservatives with their best local
:13:28. > :13:32.So another election results day draws to a close.
:13:33. > :13:35.But don't worry, we'll be doing it all again in five weeks' time.
:13:36. > :13:38.For now, though, that's your lot. Off you go.
:13:39. > :13:50.Now let's look at some of Thursday's results in a little more detail,
:13:51. > :13:53.and what they might mean for the wider fortunes
:13:54. > :14:05.In England, there were elections for 34 councils.
:14:06. > :14:07.The Conservatives took control of ten of them,
:14:08. > :14:08.gaining over 300 seats, while Labour sustained
:14:09. > :14:14.While the Lib Dems lost 28 seats, Ukip came close to extinction,
:14:15. > :14:19.and can now boast of only one councillor in the whole of England.
:14:20. > :14:21.In Scotland, the big story was Labour losing
:14:22. > :14:24.a third of their seats, and control of three councils -
:14:25. > :14:26.while the Tories more than doubled their number of councillors.
:14:27. > :14:31.In Wales, both the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru made gains,
:14:32. > :14:36.There was some encouraging news for Jeremy Corbyn's party
:14:37. > :14:38.after Liverpool and Manchester both elected Labour mayors,
:14:39. > :14:46.although the Tories narrowly won the West Midlands mayoral race.
:14:47. > :14:48.We're joined now by who else but elections expert John Curtice.
:14:49. > :14:52.You saw him in Emma's film, he's now back in Glasgow.
:14:53. > :15:05.In broad terms, what do these local election results tell us about the
:15:06. > :15:10.general election result? First we have to remember what Theresa May
:15:11. > :15:14.wants to achieve in the general election is a landslide, and winning
:15:15. > :15:18.a landslide means you have to win big in terms of votes. The local
:15:19. > :15:22.election results certainly suggest Theresa May is well on course to win
:15:23. > :15:26.the general election, at least with four weeks to go, and of course
:15:27. > :15:29.people could change their minds. We all agree the Conservatives were
:15:30. > :15:34.double-digit figures ahead of Labour in these elections. However, whereas
:15:35. > :15:42.the opinion polls on average at the moment suggest there is a 17 point
:15:43. > :15:43.Conservative lead, and that definitely would deliver a
:15:44. > :15:46.landslide, it seems the local election figures, at least in
:15:47. > :15:50.England, are pointing to something close to an 11 point Conservative
:15:51. > :15:56.lead. That increase would not necessarily deliver a landslide that
:15:57. > :16:00.she wants. The truth is, the next four weeks are probably not about
:16:01. > :16:04.who wins this election unless something dramatic changes, but
:16:05. > :16:07.there is still a battle as to whether or not Theresa May achieves
:16:08. > :16:12.her objective of winning a landslide. She has to win big. The
:16:13. > :16:16.local elections as she is not sure to be there, and therefore she is
:16:17. > :16:21.going to have to campaign hard. Equally, while Labour did have most
:16:22. > :16:25.prospect of winning, they still at least at the goal of trying to keep
:16:26. > :16:29.the conservative majority relatively low, and therefore the Parliamentary
:16:30. > :16:33.Labour Party are alive and kicking. Interesting that the local election
:16:34. > :16:38.results don't produce a landslide if replicated on June 8th, but when I
:16:39. > :16:44.looked at when local elections had taken place a month before the
:16:45. > :16:48.general election, it was in 1983 and 1987. The Tories did well in both
:16:49. > :16:51.local elections in these years, but come the general election, they
:16:52. > :16:56.added five points to their share of the vote. No reason it should happen
:16:57. > :17:00.again, but if it did, that would take them into landslide territory.
:17:01. > :17:04.Absolutely right, if they do five points better than the local
:17:05. > :17:10.elections, they are in landslide territory. We have to remember, in
:17:11. > :17:15.1983, the Labour Party ran an inept campaign and their support ballet.
:17:16. > :17:21.In 1987, David Owen and David Steele could not keep to the same lines. --
:17:22. > :17:24.their support fell away. That underlines how well the opposition
:17:25. > :17:28.campaign in the next four weeks does potentially matter in terms of
:17:29. > :17:33.Theresa May's ability to achieve their objective. It is worth
:17:34. > :17:37.noticing in the opinion polls, two things have happened, first, Ukip
:17:38. > :17:40.voters, a significant slice going to the Conservatives, which helped to
:17:41. > :17:44.increase the Conservative leader in the bowels. But in the last week,
:17:45. > :17:49.the Labour vote seems to have recovered. -- in the polls. So the
:17:50. > :17:55.party is not that far short of what Ed Miliband got in 2015, so the
:17:56. > :17:59.Conservative leader is back down to 16 or 17, as we started. So we
:18:00. > :18:05.should not necessarily presume Labour are going to go backwards in
:18:06. > :18:10.the way they did in 1983. I want to finish by asking if there are deeper
:18:11. > :18:13.forces at work? Whether the referendum in this country is
:18:14. > :18:17.producing a realignment in British politics. The Scottish referendum
:18:18. > :18:22.has produced a kind of realignment in Scotland. And in a different way,
:18:23. > :18:29.the Brexit referendum has produced a realignment in England and Wales. Do
:18:30. > :18:32.you agree? You are quite right. Referendums are potentially
:18:33. > :18:35.disruptive in Scotland, they helped to ensure the constitutional
:18:36. > :18:40.question became the central issue, and the 45% who voted yes our been
:18:41. > :18:44.faithful to the SNP since. Although the SNP put in a relatively
:18:45. > :18:49.disappointing performance in Scotland on Thursday. Equally, south
:18:50. > :18:53.of the border, on the leave side, in the past 12 months and particularly
:18:54. > :18:58.the last few weeks, the Conservatives have corralled the
:18:59. > :19:02.leave vote, about two thirds of those who voted leave now say they
:19:03. > :19:07.will vote Conservative. Last summer, the figure was only 50%. On the
:19:08. > :19:16.remain side, the vote is still fragmented. The reason why Theresa
:19:17. > :19:20.May is in the strong position she is is not simply because the leave vote
:19:21. > :19:28.has been realigned, but the remain vote has not. Thank you for joining
:19:29. > :19:32.us. You can go through polls and wonder who is up and down, but I
:19:33. > :19:37.wonder whether the Scottish and Brexit referendums have produced
:19:38. > :19:45.fundamental changes. In Scotland, the real division now is between the
:19:46. > :19:49.centre-left Nationalist party and the centre-right Unionist party.
:19:50. > :19:53.That has had the consequence of squeezing out Labour in the
:19:54. > :19:58.argument, never mind the Greens and the Lib Dems. In London, England,
:19:59. > :20:04.Wales, the Brexit referendum seems to have produced a realignment of
:20:05. > :20:13.the right to the Tories' advantage, and some trouble for the Labour blue
:20:14. > :20:19.vote -- blue-collar vote. It works for the pro Brexit end of the
:20:20. > :20:23.spectrum but not the other half. In the last century, we had people like
:20:24. > :20:26.Roy Jenkins dreaming of and writing about the realignment of British
:20:27. > :20:30.politics as though it could be consciously engineered, and in fact
:20:31. > :20:35.what made it happen was just the calling of a referendum. It's not
:20:36. > :20:38.something you can put about as a politician, it flows from below,
:20:39. > :20:44.when the public begin to think of politics in terms of single issues,
:20:45. > :20:48.dominant issues, such as leaving the European Union. Rather than a broad
:20:49. > :20:54.spectrum designed by a political class. I wonder whether now Remain
:20:55. > :20:58.have it in them to coalesce behind a single party. It doesn't look like
:20:59. > :21:00.they can do it behind Labour. The Liberal Democrats are frankly too
:21:01. > :21:06.small in Parliament to constitute that kind of force. The closest
:21:07. > :21:10.thing to a powerful Remain party is the SNP which by definition has
:21:11. > :21:16.limited appeal south of the border. It is hard. The realignment. We
:21:17. > :21:20.don't know if it is permanent or how dramatic it will be, but there is
:21:21. > :21:24.some kind of realignment going on. At the moment, it seems to be a
:21:25. > :21:29.realignment that by and large is to the benefit of the Conservatives.
:21:30. > :21:32.Without a doubt, and that can be directly attributed to the
:21:33. > :21:35.disappearance of Ukip from the political landscape. I have been
:21:36. > :21:40.saying since the referendum that I thought Ukip was finished. They
:21:41. > :21:44.still seem to be staggering on under the illusion... Some people may have
:21:45. > :21:48.picked up on Nigel Farage this morning saying that Ukip still had a
:21:49. > :21:52.strong role to play until Brexit actually happens. But I think it's
:21:53. > :21:56.very, very hard to convince the voters of that, because they feel
:21:57. > :21:59.that, with the result of the referendum, that was Ukip's job
:22:00. > :22:05.done. And those votes are not going to delay the party -- to the Labour
:22:06. > :22:10.Party because of the flaws with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, they are
:22:11. > :22:14.shifting to the Tories. I agree. The key issue was the referendum. It has
:22:15. > :22:19.produced a fundamental change that few predicted at the time it was
:22:20. > :22:23.called. Most fundamental of all, it has brought about a unity in the
:22:24. > :22:27.Conservative Party. With some exceptions, but they are now off
:22:28. > :22:33.editing the Evening Standard and other things! This is now a party
:22:34. > :22:39.united around Brexit. Since 1992, the Tories have been split over
:22:40. > :22:41.Europe, at times fatally so. The referendum, in ways that David
:22:42. > :22:46.Cameron did not anticipate, has brought about a united front for
:22:47. > :22:50.this election. In a way, this is a sequel to the referendum, because
:22:51. > :22:54.it's about Brexit but we still don't know what form Brexit is going to
:22:55. > :23:00.take. By calling it early, Theresa May has in effect got another go at
:23:01. > :23:04.a kind of Brexit referendum without knowing what Brexit is, with a
:23:05. > :23:06.united Tory party behind her. We shall see if it is a blip or a
:23:07. > :23:10.long-term trend in British politics. Now let's turn to Labour's big
:23:11. > :23:12.campaign announcement today, and that was the promise of no
:23:13. > :23:15.income tax rise for those earning less than ?80,000 -
:23:16. > :23:17.which of course means those earning more than that could
:23:18. > :23:19.face an increase. Here's Shadow Chancellor John
:23:20. > :23:28.McDonell on the BBC earlier. What we are saying today, anyone
:23:29. > :23:33.earning below ?80,000, we will guarantee you will not have an
:23:34. > :23:36.increase in income tax, VAT or national insurance contributions.
:23:37. > :23:41.For those above 80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more
:23:42. > :23:45.to fund our public services. A modest bit. You will see it will be
:23:46. > :23:52.a modest increase. Talking about modest increases, so we can have a
:23:53. > :23:54.society which we believe everyone shares the benefits of.
:23:55. > :24:00.We're joined now by Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon, in Leeds.
:24:01. > :24:06.Mr McDonnell stressed that for those earning over 80,000, they would be
:24:07. > :24:11.paying more but it would be modest. He used the word modest 45 times.
:24:12. > :24:18.But there is only 1.2 million of them. -- 4-5 times. So that would
:24:19. > :24:24.not raise much money. This is about the key part of this tax policy for
:24:25. > :24:27.the many, not the few. We are saying that low earners and middle earners
:24:28. > :24:32.won't be paying more tax under a Labour government, which is not a
:24:33. > :24:35.policy the Conservatives have committed to yet. As John McDonnell
:24:36. > :24:43.also said in his interview earlier, if there is a tax rise on the top 5%
:24:44. > :24:48.of earners, earning over ?80,000, it would be a modest rise. I am trying
:24:49. > :24:54.to work out what that would mean in terms of money. If it is too modest,
:24:55. > :24:57.you don't raise much. What will happen is the Labour Party's
:24:58. > :25:02.manifesto, published in the next couple of weeks, wilfully set out
:25:03. > :25:12.and cost it. I can't make an announcement now. -- will fully set
:25:13. > :25:15.out and cost it. Moving on to the local elections, Mr Corbyn says he
:25:16. > :25:21.is closing the gap with the Tories. What evidence is there? John Curtis
:25:22. > :25:26.just said there was an 11% gap in the results, Labour 11% behind. The
:25:27. > :25:32.polls before that suggested Labour were anything up to 20% behind. Was
:25:33. > :25:37.it a great day for Labour? Certainly not. Is there a lot to do between
:25:38. > :25:42.now and June? Sure, but we are relishing every moment of that.
:25:43. > :25:47.Comparing equivalent elections in 2013, the Tories increased their
:25:48. > :25:56.share of the vote by 13%. You lost 2%. That's a net of 15%. In what way
:25:57. > :26:03.is that closing the gap? We have gone down to 11 points behind. Am I
:26:04. > :26:08.satisfied? Certainly not. Is Labour satisfied? Certainly not. A week is
:26:09. > :26:12.a long time in politics, 4-5 weeks is even longer. The local elections
:26:13. > :26:16.are over, the general election campaign is starting, and we want to
:26:17. > :26:21.put out there the policies that will improve the lives of low and middle
:26:22. > :26:27.income earners. And also many people looking to be well off as well. You
:26:28. > :26:32.lost 133 seats in Scotland. Are you closing the gap in Scotland? The
:26:33. > :26:36.journey back for Labour in Scotland, I always thought, wouldn't be an
:26:37. > :26:40.easy one. Since the council election results and Scotland that we are
:26:41. > :26:44.comparing this to, there has been an independence referendum and the
:26:45. > :26:49.terrible results for Labour in the 2015 general election. So it is a
:26:50. > :26:53.challenge, but one hundreds of thousands of Labour members are
:26:54. > :26:55.determined to meet. That is why we're talking about bread and butter
:26:56. > :27:03.policies to make people's lives better. These local elections took
:27:04. > :27:09.place midtown. Normally mid-term was the worst time for a government. --
:27:10. > :27:15.took place midterm. And the best for an opposition. That is a feature of
:27:16. > :27:20.British politics. So why did you lose 382 councillors in a midterm
:27:21. > :27:25.election? As Andy Burnham said when he gave his acceptance speech after
:27:26. > :27:30.his terrific first ballot result win in Manchester, it was an evening of
:27:31. > :27:35.mixed results for Labour. Generally bad, wasn't it? Why did you lose all
:27:36. > :27:39.of these councillors midterm? It is not a welcome result for Labour, I
:27:40. > :27:44.am not going to be deluded. But what I and the Labour Party are focused
:27:45. > :27:48.on is the next four weeks. And how we are going to put across policies
:27:49. > :27:54.like free school meals for primary school children, ?10 an hour minimum
:27:55. > :27:59.wage, the pledge not to increase tax for low and middle earners, 95% of
:28:00. > :28:03.earners in this country. And saving the NHS from privatisation and
:28:04. > :28:07.funding it properly. These are just some of the policies, including by
:28:08. > :28:12.the way a boost in carers' allowance, that will make the lives
:28:13. > :28:18.of people in Britain better off. Labour are for the many, not for the
:28:19. > :28:22.few. But people like from political parties aspiring to government is to
:28:23. > :28:26.be united and to be singing from the same song sheet among the leaders.
:28:27. > :28:31.You mentioned Andy Burnham. Why did he not join Mr Corbyn when Jeremy
:28:32. > :28:36.Corbyn went to the rally in Manchester on Friday to celebrate
:28:37. > :28:40.his victory? First of all, Andy Burnham did a radio interview
:28:41. > :28:43.straight after his great victory in which he said Jeremy Corbyn helped
:28:44. > :28:50.him to win votes in that election. Why didn't he turn up? As to the
:28:51. > :28:56.reason Andy Burnham wasn't there at the meeting Jeremy was doing in
:28:57. > :28:59.Manchester, it was because, I understand, Andy was booked into
:29:00. > :29:04.celebrate his victory with his family that night. I don't begrudge
:29:05. > :29:07.him that and hopefully you don't. The leader has made the effort to
:29:08. > :29:11.travel to Manchester to celebrate one of the few victories you enjoyed
:29:12. > :29:16.on Thursday, surely you would join the leader and celebrate together?
:29:17. > :29:20.Well, I don't regard, and I am sure you don't, Andy Burnham a nice time
:29:21. > :29:27.with his family... -- I don't begrudge. He made it clear Jeremy
:29:28. > :29:35.Corbyn assisted him. I can see you are not convinced yourself. I am
:29:36. > :29:39.convinced. The outgoing Labour leader in Derbyshire lost his seat
:29:40. > :29:45.on Thursday, you lost Derbyshire, which was a surprise in itself... He
:29:46. > :29:49.said that genuine party supporters said they were not voting Labour
:29:50. > :29:55.while you have Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Are you hearing that on the
:29:56. > :30:00.doorstep too? I have been knocking on hundreds of doors this week in my
:30:01. > :30:03.constituency and elsewhere. And of course, you never get every single
:30:04. > :30:09.voter thinking the leader of any political party is the greatest
:30:10. > :30:14.thing since sliced bread. But it's only on a minority of doorsteps that
:30:15. > :30:18.people are criticising the Labour leader. Most people aren't even
:30:19. > :30:23.talking about these questions. Most people are talking about Jeremy
:30:24. > :30:30.Corbyn's policies, free primary school meals, ?10 an hour minimum
:30:31. > :30:32.wage. Also policies such as paternity pay, maternity pay and
:30:33. > :30:36.sickness pay for the self-employed, that have been hard-pressed under
:30:37. > :30:39.this government. So I don't recognise that pitch of despondency,
:30:40. > :30:45.but I understand that in different areas, in local elections,
:30:46. > :30:49.perspectives are different. That was Derbyshire. The outgoing Labour
:30:50. > :30:52.leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said there was concern on
:30:53. > :30:58.the doorstep about whether Jeremy Corbyn was the right person to lead
:30:59. > :31:02.the Labour Party, and even Rotherham, loyal to Mr Corbyn, won
:31:03. > :31:08.the mail contest in Liverpool, he said that the Labour leader was more
:31:09. > :31:12.might on the doorstep. -- the mayor contest. Does that explain some of
:31:13. > :31:16.the performance on Thursday? I am confident that in the next four
:31:17. > :31:21.weeks, when we get into coverage on television, that people will see
:31:22. > :31:25.further the kind of open leadership Jeremy provides. In contrast to
:31:26. > :31:29.Theresa May's refusal to meet ordinary people. She came to my
:31:30. > :31:33.constituency and I don't think that a single person who lives here. And
:31:34. > :31:37.also she is ducking the chance to debate with Jeremy Corbyn on TV. She
:31:38. > :31:43.should do it and let the people decide. I don't know why she won't.
:31:44. > :31:48.Finally, the Labour mantra is that you are the party of the ordinary
:31:49. > :32:01.people, why is it the case that among what advertisers call C2s, D
:32:02. > :32:07.and E', how can you on the pulse of that social group, how can you do
:32:08. > :32:11.that? Our policy is to assist, protect and improve the living
:32:12. > :32:15.standards of people in those groups and our policy is to protect the
:32:16. > :32:19.living standards of the majority... They do not seem to be convinced? We
:32:20. > :32:21.have four weeks to convince them and I believe that we will. Thank you
:32:22. > :32:24.for coming onto the programme. But the wooden spoon from Thursday's
:32:25. > :32:30.elections undoubtedly went to Ukip. Four years ago the party
:32:31. > :32:32.won its best ever local government performance,
:32:33. > :32:34.but this time its support just Ukip's share of the vote
:32:35. > :32:37.plunging by as much as 18 points, most obviously
:32:38. > :32:41.benefiting the Conservatives. So is it all over for
:32:42. > :32:44.the self-styled people's army? Well we're joined now
:32:45. > :32:45.by the party's leader in the Welsh Assembly,
:32:46. > :32:56.Neil Hamilton, he's in Cardiff. Neil Hamilton, welcome. Ukip
:32:57. > :33:00.finished local elections gaining the same number of councillors as the
:33:01. > :33:06.Rubbish Party, one. That sums up your prospects, doesn't
:33:07. > :33:12.it? Rubbish? We have been around a long time and seemed that I'd go
:33:13. > :33:17.out, go in again, we will keep calm and carry on. We are in a phoney
:33:18. > :33:21.war, negotiations on Brexit have not started but what we know from
:33:22. > :33:24.Theresa May is that in seven years, as Home Secretary and Prime
:33:25. > :33:28.Minister, she has completely failed to control immigration which was one
:33:29. > :33:35.of the great driving forces behind the Brexit result. I'm not really
:33:36. > :33:38.looking for any great success in immigration from the Tories, and a
:33:39. > :33:42.lot of people who have previously voted for Ukip will be back in our
:33:43. > :33:48.part of the field again. They don't seem to care about that at the
:33:49. > :33:53.moment, your party lost 147 council seats. You gain one. It is time to
:33:54. > :33:57.shut up shop, isn't it? You are right, the voters are not focusing
:33:58. > :34:00.on other domestic issues at the moment. They have made up their
:34:01. > :34:06.minds going into these negotiations in Brussels, Theresa May, as Prime
:34:07. > :34:10.Minister, needs as much support as she can get. I think they are wrong
:34:11. > :34:16.in this respect, it would be better to have a cohort of Ukip MPs to back
:34:17. > :34:22.her up. She was greatly helped by the intervention of Mr Juncker last
:34:23. > :34:26.week as well, the stupidity in how the European Commission has tried to
:34:27. > :34:29.bully the British government, in those circumstances the British
:34:30. > :34:34.people will react in one way going the opposite way to what the
:34:35. > :34:38.Brussels establishment one. She has been fortunate as an acute tactician
:34:39. > :34:42.in having the election now. I struggle to see the way back for
:34:43. > :34:47.your party. You aren't a threat to the Tories in the south. Ukip voters
:34:48. > :34:51.are flocking to the Tories in the south. You don't threaten Labour in
:34:52. > :34:55.the north. It is the Tories who threaten Labour now in the north.
:34:56. > :35:01.There is no room to progress, is there? The reality will be is that
:35:02. > :35:05.once we are back on the domestic agenda again, and the Brexit
:35:06. > :35:11.negotiations are concluded, we will know what the outcome is. And the
:35:12. > :35:14.focus will be on bread and butter issues. We have all sorts of
:35:15. > :35:20.policies in our programme which other parties cannot match us on.
:35:21. > :35:24.The talk is putting up taxes to help the health service, we would scrap
:35:25. > :35:27.the foreign aid budget and put another ?8 billion in the health
:35:28. > :35:33.service, no other party says that. These policies would be popular with
:35:34. > :35:37.the ordinary working person. Is Paul Nuttall to blame on the meltdown of
:35:38. > :35:40.what happened, no matter who is leader? These are cosmic forces
:35:41. > :35:44.beyond the control of any individual at the moment, it is certainly not
:35:45. > :35:50.Paul Nuttall's .com he's been in the job for six months and in half that
:35:51. > :35:55.time he was fighting a by-election -- certainly not Paul Nuttall's
:35:56. > :35:59.fault. We have two become more professional than we have been
:36:00. > :36:04.recently. It has not been a brilliant year for Ukip one way or
:36:05. > :36:07.another, as you know, but there are prospects, in future, that are very
:36:08. > :36:12.rosy. I do not believe that the Tories will deliver on other
:36:13. > :36:16.promises that they are now making. The Welsh assembly elections are not
:36:17. > :36:20.until 2021, you are a member of that, but at that point you will not
:36:21. > :36:26.have any MEPs, because we will be out on the timetable. With this
:36:27. > :36:32.current showing he will have no end', you could be Ukip's most
:36:33. > :36:40.senior elected representative. That would be a turnout for the books! --
:36:41. > :36:44.no elected MPs. The Tories are not promoting the policies that I
:36:45. > :36:49.believe them. You will see that in the Ukip manifesto when it is
:36:50. > :36:59.shortly publish... Leaders talk mainly about the male genital
:37:00. > :37:04.mutilation and is -- female and burqas. No, when the manifesto
:37:05. > :37:11.launched, we have a lot of policies, I spoke moments ago about it, but
:37:12. > :37:15.also on foreign aid. Scrapping green taxes, to cut people's electricity
:37:16. > :37:24.bills by ?300 per year on average. There are a lot of popular policies
:37:25. > :37:28.that we have. We will hear more from that in the weeks to come.
:37:29. > :37:33.Paul Nuttall said "If the price of written leaving the year is a Tory
:37:34. > :37:38.advance after taking up this patriarch course, it is a price that
:37:39. > :37:42.Ukip is prepared to pay". That sounds like a surrender statement?
:37:43. > :37:47.It is a statement of fact, the main agenda is to get out of the EU and
:37:48. > :37:54.have full Brexit. That is why Ukip came into existence 20 years ago.
:37:55. > :37:57.When it is achieved, we go back to the normal political battle lines.
:37:58. > :38:01.Niall Hamilton in Cardiff, thank you very much for joining us.
:38:02. > :38:04.It's just gone 11.35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:05. > :38:06.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:38:07. > :38:16.Coming up here in 20 minutes - we'll be talking about the French
:38:17. > :38:18.Hello, you're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire,
:38:19. > :38:24.Ukip's leader Paul Nuttall assesses the damage after his party
:38:25. > :38:29.is wiped-out across our patch in the local elections.
:38:30. > :38:31.They just fall out amongst themselves, and
:38:32. > :38:42.Yes, we'll be discussing the fallout from that and finding out what it
:38:43. > :38:45.means for the big one on June the 8th with your guests today,
:38:46. > :38:48.Labour's Tracy Brabin, Conservative Alec Shelbrooke,
:38:49. > :38:51.Baroness Kath Pinnock for the Liberal Demorats
:38:52. > :38:58.As Labour today unveils its tax plans, its leadership is facing
:38:59. > :39:02.recriminations over local elections results after some humiliating
:39:03. > :39:06.and Yorkshire and Lincolnshire was no exception.
:39:07. > :39:10.Recriminations will however be even more bitter amongst Ukip's ranks
:39:11. > :39:14.after the party was wiped off the county council map.
:39:15. > :39:17.Arguably the worst result for Ukip came in Lincolnshire -
:39:18. > :39:20.Britain's most Eurosceptic county - where the party's leader
:39:21. > :39:25.Paul Nuttall is hoping to become the next MP for Boston and Skegness.
:39:26. > :39:29.With his overview of the results, here's David Rhodes.
:39:30. > :39:32.Historically, people vote slightly differently in local elections to
:39:33. > :39:35.how they vote in a general election and what these results allow us to
:39:36. > :39:39.do is take a look at the core vote, the people who are most likely
:39:40. > :39:43.So, across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire,
:39:44. > :39:47.there were 197 council seats contested.
:39:48. > :39:49.Heading into the election, 58 of these seats were
:39:50. > :39:52.held by Labour, 88 by the Conservatives.
:39:53. > :39:55.Now, under normal circumstances, you might expect the Conservatives
:39:56. > :39:58.to lose seats because they have been the party of government
:39:59. > :40:01.for seven years, but look what has happened instead.
:40:02. > :40:03.The Conservatives have gained 32 councillors
:40:04. > :40:07.But look at what has happened to Ukip.
:40:08. > :40:11.On Thursday, they had 17 councillors, but now they have all
:40:12. > :40:14.gone, a sign perhaps that after Brexit, voters see
:40:15. > :40:17.the party as not having real relevance any more.
:40:18. > :40:20.And the Lib Dems, in places like Harrogate and the outskirts
:40:21. > :40:23.of York, areas that voted to remain in the EU,
:40:24. > :40:27.the Lib Dems here hoped their pro-EU stance would help them
:40:28. > :40:30.pick up council seats, but that just hasn't happened.
:40:31. > :40:35.In Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, the Conservatives did well
:40:36. > :40:38.in these local elections, but rest assured, the parties
:40:39. > :40:42.will be poring over these results in an attempt to work out how
:40:43. > :40:47.to win your vote come the general election on June the 8th.
:40:48. > :40:51.So let's look in more detail at the results
:40:52. > :40:55.Our reporters were at counts across the region.
:40:56. > :40:58.Sarah Urwin was at County Hall in Northallerton,
:40:59. > :41:01.James Vincent was at the counts for the mayoral and local council
:41:02. > :41:06.elections in Doncaster and Sharon Edwards was at Lincoln.
:41:07. > :41:08.Well, in a complete reversal to what happened four years ago,
:41:09. > :41:12.the Conservatives have made big gains in Lincolnshire.
:41:13. > :41:15.Going into this election, their contingency took up
:41:16. > :41:19.less than half of the benches here at county offices.
:41:20. > :41:24.After tonight, well, it's more than three quarters
:41:25. > :41:27.and if there is blood on the carpet, it's distinctly purple.
:41:28. > :41:30.Ukip has been wiped off the map and Labour
:41:31. > :41:35.has seen its number of councillors drop from 12 to six.
:41:36. > :41:38.We didn't do well, but it has to be seen against
:41:39. > :41:41.the national backdrop where Labour are quite a considerable way
:41:42. > :41:45.behind the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
:41:46. > :41:48.Here in Doncaster, it will be four more years of Labour.
:41:49. > :41:52.Roz Jones won a convincing victory for the party at the count.
:41:53. > :41:56.She got over 50% of the votes on the first preference,
:41:57. > :41:58.so there was no need to count the second preferences.
:41:59. > :42:01.That's the first time that's ever happened in Doncaster.
:42:02. > :42:03.The Conservatives did well to finish second.
:42:04. > :42:07.Ukip were beaten back to third and Labour,
:42:08. > :42:10.really pleased with that result, because it kind of bucks the trend
:42:11. > :42:13.of what happened nationally in the local elections.
:42:14. > :42:15.They're also really happy because they're also electing,
:42:16. > :42:17.along with a mayor, they're also electing councillors.
:42:18. > :42:19.Labour are picked up a couple of extra councillors
:42:20. > :42:22.and Ukip won't have any councillors in Doncaster any more.
:42:23. > :42:27.So Labour seeing this in Doncaster as a really big victory.
:42:28. > :42:29.We've been out to ask people what they think
:42:30. > :42:33.I don't vote, so to be honest, whoever gets in's
:42:34. > :42:43.You never thought that this time, maybe thinking
:42:44. > :42:47.Roz Jones is halfway through doing the job.
:42:48. > :42:49.Hopefully she can finish it all off now,
:42:50. > :42:51.get this town centre built up again.
:42:52. > :43:05.Not such good news for Labour in the southern parts of our patch.
:43:06. > :43:08.Derbyshire County Council used to be Labour-controlled.
:43:09. > :43:12.Now it's controlled by the Conservative Party.
:43:13. > :43:14.It's actually the only council in the country that's gone
:43:15. > :43:17.from direct control from one party to another,
:43:18. > :43:21.In Nottinghamshire, there is still no overall control
:43:22. > :43:24.for sure, but the Conservatives now are the largest party and they've
:43:25. > :43:28.told us they won't be trying to form a coalition to run the council.
:43:29. > :43:31.They'll be trying to run the council as the largest party without
:43:32. > :43:34.a majority, so they'll have some interesting times trying
:43:35. > :43:41.Here at county hall in Northallerton, North Yorkshire,
:43:42. > :43:44.there were big gains for the Conservatives.
:43:45. > :43:46.They took another ten seats, taking their majority
:43:47. > :43:52.to 55 out of 72 seats, tn fact, the most the Conservatives have had
:43:53. > :43:56.since this council came into its current form 20 years ago.
:43:57. > :44:02.The Liberal party had two seats, they lost those.
:44:03. > :44:04.Labour also went down by three seats
:44:05. > :44:09.There will be some form of opposition in the form of
:44:10. > :44:14.There were ten seats won by them, but overall,
:44:15. > :44:16.the picture here reflecting what happened nationally
:44:17. > :44:31.Thanks to Sarah, James and Sharon for us there. Let's now go live to
:44:32. > :44:35.Labour's Tracy Brabin. After the events of the past few days, can you
:44:36. > :44:40.see anything other than a crushing defeat for Labour at the general
:44:41. > :44:44.election? Absolutely not. Obviously, it's a very difficult time and all
:44:45. > :44:46.those hard-working Labour activists who have worked and slugged it out
:44:47. > :44:50.and Labour councillors who are and Labour councillors who are
:44:51. > :44:54.dealing with Tory cuts on a day-to-day basis, they have worked
:44:55. > :44:58.really hard. It's very disappointing, but like your package
:44:59. > :45:01.And Roz, four years ago, was neck And Roz, four years ago, was neck
:45:02. > :45:06.and neck with the English Democrats are now she has put that back and
:45:07. > :45:10.she has had a resounding... But the general election won't be decided in
:45:11. > :45:14.Doncaster. In other areas, your vote share went down and you lost
:45:15. > :45:22.councils. It looks grim. Of course there are things to be learned but
:45:23. > :45:25.we must celebrate. Manchester and Liverpool and we're working very
:45:26. > :45:28.hard and, to be honest, I am really up for this fight. It will be a
:45:29. > :45:31.challenge and we are going to fight it tooth and nail but it is also an
:45:32. > :45:32.opportunity for us to get our message out there and as we all
:45:33. > :45:34.know, in politics things can change know, in politics things can change
:45:35. > :45:36.quite quickly and there are four quite quickly and there are four
:45:37. > :45:45.weeks to go, so it is a great opportunity. Alec Shelbrooke, is
:45:46. > :45:48.there a concern that the local election results might be a wake-up
:45:49. > :45:52.call for people who do not want a Conservative Government. They might
:45:53. > :45:55.be mumbled busy to go out and vote for another party. The local
:45:56. > :45:59.elections were the local elections and do not count towards the general
:46:00. > :46:03.election. In this election, the Conservative Party is going out to
:46:04. > :46:07.get every vote it can possibly get. We have won nothing yet but the
:46:08. > :46:10.general election and if we want the strong and stable leadership of
:46:11. > :46:18.get every vote we can get. The first get every vote we can get. The first
:46:19. > :46:25.mention of that phrase did a! I will look... Kath Pinnock, you have lost
:46:26. > :46:31.seats, how is the fightback going? Really well. Really? But not
:46:32. > :46:34.necessarily play in places where there are overwhelming Conservative
:46:35. > :46:39.presence. But in other parts of the country where we have traditionally
:46:40. > :46:44.done well, we gained seats. So it is a bit patchy, but I am optimistic
:46:45. > :46:51.about the election in five weeks' time. Let me go to Roger Helmer,
:46:52. > :46:54.Ukip NEP. If Ukip can't win seats in places like Lincolnshire, the most
:46:55. > :46:56.Eurosceptic county in the country Eurosceptic county in the country
:46:57. > :47:02.where you were wiped out on the county council, where Newman? Well,
:47:03. > :47:06.let's be honest, we had a bad time in the local elections. In fact, all
:47:07. > :47:10.parties apart from the Conservatives had a pretty bad time. The reason
:47:11. > :47:15.the Conservatives did so well was they had largely taken over Ukip
:47:16. > :47:20.policies on Europe, on immigration, even on grammar schools and to an
:47:21. > :47:24.won by taking on our policies. We won by taking on our policies. We
:47:25. > :47:28.can take pride in the fact that we achieved a referendum, we helped to
:47:29. > :47:30.win the referendum and we have turned the Conservative Party around
:47:31. > :47:34.into a Brexit supporting party. That into a Brexit supporting party. That
:47:35. > :47:39.basis, I think we've achieved a great deal and I pay tribute to our
:47:40. > :47:42.activists and candidates who worked so hard even at a time when the tide
:47:43. > :47:44.was moving against them. It's was moving against them. It's
:47:45. > :47:47.interesting that all you are using. interesting that all you are using.
:47:48. > :47:53.It almost sounds like an obituary for your party. Will you now rejoin
:47:54. > :47:57.the Conservatives? Certainly not! No, I think the future for Ukip
:47:58. > :48:02.depends very much on whether Theresa May delivers. Of Theresa May
:48:03. > :48:08.delivers on Brexit, then we face a pretty tough time. However, if she
:48:09. > :48:11.starts to weaken and she's already backtracked on the European
:48:12. > :48:16.Convention on human rights so that we will be able to deport foreign
:48:17. > :48:22.terrorists and murderers, she is putting remainders into a winnable
:48:23. > :48:26.seat in the general election, she is talking about a transition period
:48:27. > :48:30.which sounds like a very, very soft Brexit and we know what immigration,
:48:31. > :48:34.she has made promises before and not delivers them, if she fails to
:48:35. > :48:37.deliver which looks to me pretty likely, I think you'll find that
:48:38. > :48:42.Ukip has a new relevance that doesn't show Windows local election
:48:43. > :48:47.results. What you make of that accusation that the Tories have
:48:48. > :48:50.stolen Ukip's policies? A load of old Goth! The reality is that in
:48:51. > :48:55.2016 there was the referendum and the British people chose to leave
:48:56. > :48:58.the European Union. Many Conservative MPs were on the remain
:48:59. > :49:04.side of that argument including myself, but the British people spoke
:49:05. > :49:06.and a mandate was given. A 2017, this general election moving
:49:07. > :49:09.forward, is about enacting a democratic will which is to leave
:49:10. > :49:13.the European Union and is happening. What we must do now is negotiate.
:49:14. > :49:17.There is a complex and in-depth of issues that need to be negotiated
:49:18. > :49:21.that what we are really seeing in this election is, as I was saying
:49:22. > :49:25.earlier, every vote counts because it is not just about trying to get a
:49:26. > :49:29.bigger parliamentary majority, every party is trying to get more seats,
:49:30. > :49:34.but it is about having as many people in the country vote in seats
:49:35. > :49:37.we can't win in order to go into those negotiations saying that a lot
:49:38. > :49:42.of the country is backing it. But it is not a Brexit argument. A decision
:49:43. > :49:47.has been made by the British people, now it's about negotiating the best
:49:48. > :49:53.way that deal is delivered. I. Not the whole of our programme to be
:49:54. > :49:55.dominated by Brexit. Let me ask you, Tracy Brabin, there are lots of
:49:56. > :49:58.hard-working Labour councillors out on the doorsteps this weekend but
:49:59. > :50:01.they have a big problem because as soon as they start talking to
:50:02. > :50:07.voters, voters tell them we don't like Jeremy Corbyn. That is the
:50:08. > :50:12.elephant in the room. When I am going door-to-door, as you know I am
:50:13. > :50:16.doing the footwork at the moment, I think the biggest issue is not
:50:17. > :50:21.necessarily about the leadership, the biggest issue locally for me is
:50:22. > :50:26.the NHS. It is the downgrade to Dewsbury Hospital, all the cuts to
:50:27. > :50:30.every school in my constituency, 9.4 million being wiped off the
:50:31. > :50:36.education budget, cuts to police and the fact that we have lost 1200
:50:37. > :50:41.police and there is a spike in crime at 19%, so cuts having consequences.
:50:42. > :50:46.And off is the, Brexit, all these other issues are a mess minister
:50:47. > :50:52.issues so on the doorstep, you ask me about going door-to-door, that is
:50:53. > :50:56.not going out. But you can never do all the things you talk about doing
:50:57. > :50:59.on the NHS and police unless you form the next Government and as we
:51:00. > :51:04.sit here this weekend, that is not going to happen. As we know, how
:51:05. > :51:07.strange politics is. Who knows? There may be an opportunity to get
:51:08. > :51:11.our message out there and people will vote for us because I do
:51:12. > :51:18.believe that we have an excellent raft of policies. We are reaching
:51:19. > :51:20.out to be many and not refute and to look around my constituency, I know
:51:21. > :51:24.we need a Labour Government. Kath Pinnock, if you and the Labour Party
:51:25. > :51:27.hate the Tories so much, why aren't you working together more? Why don't
:51:28. > :51:34.you say to someone like Tracy, we will not put a Labour candidate in
:51:35. > :51:39.this place if you do not put a Lib Dem candidate in this place? What we
:51:40. > :51:45.have here today is three representatives of the other parties
:51:46. > :51:49.who all believe in exiting the European Union, have gone for
:51:50. > :51:57.Brexit. And the Liberal Democrats are quite clear, Brexit will have
:51:58. > :52:01.serious implications for security, jobs, prosperity, and we need to
:52:02. > :52:04.keep making that argument, so it is no bid Palin up with anybody else,
:52:05. > :52:11.no good powering up with anyone else, because we ought to be talking
:52:12. > :52:15.to people about that. But the issue I've just said, that is a 2016
:52:16. > :52:20.argument... The British people spoke about all the work Tracy was, but I
:52:21. > :52:28.was in the remain calm. I get tired of the British people spoke
:52:29. > :52:34.because... It's not the best of three. We voted, we have to do it.
:52:35. > :52:39.This is why I can't Powell with them! 16 million people voted one
:52:40. > :52:42.and 17 million the other, so what we all ought to be doing as a country
:52:43. > :52:47.is taking all those views together and trying to find a solution. But
:52:48. > :52:50.that was not borne out at the local elections. You lost councillors even
:52:51. > :52:56.in places like Harrogate and Knaresborough weather was a majority
:52:57. > :52:59.for remain. That is true, and the local election, sadly, because I
:53:00. > :53:05.think you should fight on local issues, were overtaken by Theresa
:53:06. > :53:10.May announcing a general election. So it became a proxy general
:53:11. > :53:13.election. That is a sadness for that, so a lot of councillors have
:53:14. > :53:21.lost their seats because of it and some of them have gained it because
:53:22. > :53:26.of it. Noes swings and roundabouts. Yes, I will still fight for staying
:53:27. > :53:33.and remaining in the single market because jobs in the area where I
:53:34. > :53:38.live are going to depend on it. We have a big company where I live that
:53:39. > :53:41.has a huge export trade to Europe has a huge export trade to Europe
:53:42. > :53:47.and the middle east and if we come out of Europe, they might come out
:53:48. > :53:52.of our area. Let me go back to Roger if I can because I want to ask you
:53:53. > :53:56.to win his by-election in Stoke and to win his by-election in Stoke and
:53:57. > :54:03.has overseen a meltdown in the local elections. He hasn't exactly got the
:54:04. > :54:06.Midas touch, has he? He has hit the leadership of the party at a time
:54:07. > :54:10.when we face problems because the Conservative Party, as I said
:54:11. > :54:14.earlier, have taken up most of our policies and also we have lost a
:54:15. > :54:19.charismatic leader who had an enormous following amongst the
:54:20. > :54:23.public. He has had a tough call. I have known him for many years and
:54:24. > :54:28.have great confidence in him and I think he would agree with me that
:54:29. > :54:31.the future of Ukip is important for British politics especially if, as
:54:32. > :54:35.we expect, Theresa May starts to soften her position in the face of
:54:36. > :54:41.opposition from Brussels. Tracy Brabin, don't you think that Labour
:54:42. > :54:44.has a credibility problem? Not just regarding Jeremy Corbyn but when you
:54:45. > :54:48.look at some of the Shadow Cabinet. Look at Dianne Abbot's mess up the
:54:49. > :54:52.other day on the radio over police figures. People do not see you as a
:54:53. > :54:57.credible alternative Government, do they? Can I say about that, Jeremy
:54:58. > :55:02.Hunt got the figures wrong this morning on Andrew Marr. It is not
:55:03. > :55:06.one in six will experience mental health issues, but one in four.
:55:07. > :55:13.These things happen. But we have to be fighting on local issues as well.
:55:14. > :55:16.The NHS is... Was created by the Labour Government, saved by the
:55:17. > :55:23.Labour Government in 1997 and will be protected. Figures out today that
:55:24. > :55:30.actually there are real terms cut is that the Tory party themselves have
:55:31. > :55:35.accepted, real-time cuts in the NHS from 19... Sorry, 2018-19. So we
:55:36. > :55:40.have to get the message across that the NHS is safe only with the Labour
:55:41. > :55:43.Government. Can I come in there? I have not yet heard from the Labour
:55:44. > :55:45.Party what they are going to do to safeguard it except to say they will
:55:46. > :55:53.whereas the Liberal Democrats have come up today with an idea... You're
:55:54. > :55:59.going to tax people more. Low paid earners, everyone is going to visit
:56:00. > :56:04.tax rise. But you know the shadow Minister for health came to our
:56:05. > :56:06.region and announced on the first day of a Labour Government a
:56:07. > :56:10.moratorium on STPs. Our community is moratorium on STPs. Our community is
:56:11. > :56:15.crying out for some kind of conversation. Only 1% of our
:56:16. > :56:24.community was that the asked about this. 'S explain, what are STPs.
:56:25. > :56:29.Sustainable... It's about talking to Sustainable... It's about talking to
:56:30. > :56:35.the people. 70% of the population know and have agreed that our health
:56:36. > :56:38.service needs more money. And our social care services need more
:56:39. > :56:46.money. In order to actually survive. What we are saying is, we will ask
:56:47. > :56:49.people to pay 1p in the pound more to cover those costs so we can put
:56:50. > :56:56.money in to save the NHS instead of just saying we will. We will do it
:56:57. > :57:01.and 1p means, four people where I live on lower wages, might mean less
:57:02. > :57:07.than ?1 a week and I think most people would say that is a price
:57:08. > :57:10.worth paying. The problem is, Alec Shelbrooke, from what I have seen so
:57:11. > :57:15.far, the Conservatives don't seem to want to talk about the NHS. All you
:57:16. > :57:18.want to talk about is Brexit. It is arguably the biggest issue for the
:57:19. > :57:22.country and it is being ignored. There is a manifesto still to come
:57:23. > :57:24.out, as you know, but let's look at what we have done. There are
:57:25. > :57:29.millions more are going through the NHS each week. There is an extra ?10
:57:30. > :57:32.billion going into the NHS as was requested by the Davis review. Is
:57:33. > :57:37.the NHS working perfectly? Of course it is not an things have to be
:57:38. > :57:41.changed. Kath mentioned about social care and is not just a case of
:57:42. > :57:45.putting money in, it is how we can reform the system because since
:57:46. > :57:50.2010, there has been a 50% increase in the number of it he rolled in the
:57:51. > :57:57.country, people above 80, so those are real pressures. It puts more
:57:58. > :58:01.pressure on the NHS... It's about prioritising... We have to work out
:58:02. > :58:05.how this can be delivered and was an extent, it is all very well saying
:58:06. > :58:12.put money in, but have we actually got the capacity in terms of, for
:58:13. > :58:15.example, angiograms and heart operations. People are getting older
:58:16. > :58:17.and living longer and these have to be addressed fundamentally as to how
:58:18. > :58:20.we can manage the increased pressures. There are millions more
:58:21. > :58:28.people coming to the NHS now than there were ten years ago. But you
:58:29. > :58:35.said yesterday... And that can be done without any extra cash? We put
:58:36. > :58:38.in 10 billion, and after the Davis review, we have delivered what the
:58:39. > :58:43.independent review asked for. If other reviews come for words, more
:58:44. > :58:48.money will be put in. You know that's not true! Let me bring in
:58:49. > :58:53.Bodger helmet. A lot of people will say they remember voting to leave
:58:54. > :59:00.the EU because they were promised all that extra money for the NHS
:59:01. > :59:03.from Brussels. On Brexit, we haven't Brexit aired yet. We are still
:59:04. > :59:08.paying cod abrasions to Brussels and we will still be paying bills until
:59:09. > :59:10.2019. But two big issues I want to bring up your, first of all we are
:59:11. > :59:14.wasting huge amounts of money on wasting huge amounts of money on
:59:15. > :59:18.foreign aid which we should not be doing. Secondly, you cannot discuss
:59:19. > :59:22.health provision without also discussing the issue of immigration.
:59:23. > :59:26.We have 300,000 plus net new people coming into the country every year
:59:27. > :59:30.or so they want health care and, by the way, they want education and
:59:31. > :59:33.other social services and if you are going to talk about the NHS, you
:59:34. > :59:38.cannot ignore the elephant in the room which is the large numbers of
:59:39. > :59:42.additional people coming in but also the large amounts of money that I
:59:43. > :59:47.being wasted on Brussels and wasted on foreign aid. This is a big
:59:48. > :59:52.weakness for Labour, immigration. Just whine slightly, even John Major
:59:53. > :59:55.is saying that the NHS is not safe in the Tory Government's council we
:59:56. > :00:01.have to add the address that, but it is not about accepting, as you were
:00:02. > :00:04.suggesting, weaving through an understanding that now these waiting
:00:05. > :00:09.times are going to be forgotten. We have to accept we have an ageing
:00:10. > :00:13.population. It is not fair, it's not fair that older people are going to
:00:14. > :00:17.be waiting for hip and knee operations and be lonely. It is not
:00:18. > :00:24.fair and it is cynical and it is unfair. It's not about capacity. Ten
:00:25. > :00:28.seconds each to some up. Give us your prediction for the general
:00:29. > :00:34.election. We will do a lot better than we did last time. We will gain
:00:35. > :00:37.seats and we will become the real opposition to a Tory Government. We
:00:38. > :00:41.will fight for every single vote in the country so that when Theresa May
:00:42. > :00:45.goes in to negotiate on behalf of this country, she has that strong
:00:46. > :00:48.and stable leadership and mandates. We are going to be fighting every
:00:49. > :00:54.step of the way but I think we are going to do it. We will pip them at
:00:55. > :00:58.the pool to get a Labour Government. We are the only party in Ukip... We
:00:59. > :01:03.are the only party that is absolutely committed to a real,
:01:04. > :01:07.complete Brexit and we will have a considerable impact on the campaign.
:01:08. > :01:10.I can't predict seat numbers, but we will have an impact on the campaign,
:01:11. > :01:11.especially as we challenge remainders. We must
:01:12. > :01:14.housing associations and investment, but we have run out of time, thank
:01:15. > :01:29.you. Andrew. Four weeks to go until polling day
:01:30. > :01:33.on the 8th of June, what will the party strategies be for the
:01:34. > :01:39.remaining four weeks? Let's begin with the Conservatives. Do they just
:01:40. > :01:44.try to continue to play it safe for four weeks? Yes, with this important
:01:45. > :01:47.qualification. Theresa May Corp this election to get her own personal
:01:48. > :01:51.mandate partly, partly because she thought she would win big but to get
:01:52. > :01:57.her own personal mandate. Therefore, she needs to define it. In her own
:01:58. > :02:02.interests and to do with accountability to the country. So
:02:03. > :02:06.clearly, they will not take risks when they are so far ahead in the
:02:07. > :02:08.polls. What they do say in the manifesto matters in
:02:09. > :02:15.terms of the space that she has in the coming years to define her
:02:16. > :02:21.leadership against David Cameron 's. She is a free figure, partly on the
:02:22. > :02:31.basis of what she says as to how big she wins. They cannot just play it
:02:32. > :02:35.safe and repeat their mantra of strong and stable leadership, if she
:02:36. > :02:40.is going to claim her own mandate, they need the top policy? Yes, and
:02:41. > :02:43.what is unusual about this is that the manifesto matters far more
:02:44. > :02:46.because of what they need to do with it afterwards, than in terms of
:02:47. > :02:52.whether it is going to win anybody over now. Clearly, the strategy is
:02:53. > :02:56.yes, we do have two layout out a few things, there are interesting
:02:57. > :02:59.debates as to whether, for example, they will still commit to this
:03:00. > :03:03.ambition of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands, we do not
:03:04. > :03:06.know the answer yet. It is a question on whether she is setting
:03:07. > :03:15.herself up for difficulties later on. It will be a short manifesto, I
:03:16. > :03:18.would venture to guess? It is in her interests to be as noncommittal as
:03:19. > :03:22.possible, that argues for a short manifesto but what does strike me
:03:23. > :03:27.about the Conservative campaign, aside from the ambiguity on policy,
:03:28. > :03:33.is how personal it is. I think Theresa May, in her most recent
:03:34. > :03:35.speech, referred to "My local candidates", rather than
:03:36. > :03:42.Parliamentary candidates, very much framing it as a presidential
:03:43. > :03:46.candidate in France or the USA. Not a rational on her part. Everything I
:03:47. > :03:51.hear from the MPs on the ground and the focus groups being done by the
:03:52. > :03:55.parties, is that a big chunk of the population personally identify with
:03:56. > :03:58.her. If you can wrap up Middle England into a physical object and
:03:59. > :04:04.embody it in a person, it would be her. Although Jeremy Corbyn's
:04:05. > :04:07.unpopularity accounts for a big slice of her popularity, she has
:04:08. > :04:12.done a good job of bonding with the public. We never saw that coming!
:04:13. > :04:15.But you may well be right. That is happening now. Labour say it wants
:04:16. > :04:20.the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell to play a more prominent role in the
:04:21. > :04:23.Labour campaign, he was on The Andrew Marr Show this morning and he
:04:24. > :04:29.was asked if he was a Marxist, he denied that he was. It surprised me
:04:30. > :04:36.as I had seen tape from before saying that he was proud of it.
:04:37. > :04:41.Let's look now and then. Are you a Marxist? I believe that there is a
:04:42. > :04:45.lot to learn... Yes or no? I believe that there is a lot to learn from
:04:46. > :04:49.reading capital, that is recommended not only by me but measuring
:04:50. > :04:56.economists as well. I also believe that in the long tradition of the
:04:57. > :05:01.Labour Party... We need to demand systemic change. I am a Marxist.
:05:02. > :05:05.This is a classic crisis of the economy. A capitalist crisis. I've
:05:06. > :05:12.been waiting for this for a generation! That was from about four
:05:13. > :05:16.years ago. No, I'm not a Marxist, yes, I am a Marxist... I've been
:05:17. > :05:20.waiting for the Marxist revolution my whole life... Does this kind of
:05:21. > :05:26.thing matter? Yes, but in fairness, I think he is a really good
:05:27. > :05:30.interviewee. The Shadow Cabinet have untested figures in a national
:05:31. > :05:35.campaign. None have ever been exposed at any level to a national
:05:36. > :05:40.media campaign that they are about to experience. He is the best
:05:41. > :05:45.interviewee. In fairness to him, when he gave that clip four years
:05:46. > :05:48.ago, I bet he never dream that he would be in a senior front bench
:05:49. > :05:54.position. But the background is clear. They are of the left, and I
:05:55. > :06:00.think they would all have described it. Jeremy Corbyn would have done,
:06:01. > :06:04.he is close to being like Tony Benn. There are about four Labour campaign
:06:05. > :06:08.is being fought in this election. Their campaign, the old Shadow
:06:09. > :06:12.Cabinet, campaigning in constituencies, but not identifying
:06:13. > :06:19.with that campaign. There is the former Labour leader Tony Blair. Is
:06:20. > :06:23.it damaging? I think so, if they could be damaged any further, I
:06:24. > :06:27.could see all of the Labour MPs with their heads in their hands. What I
:06:28. > :06:30.am hearing from Labour MPs is that there is not one of them who do not
:06:31. > :06:35.feel that they have a horrendous battle on their hands. These will be
:06:36. > :06:39.very individual local campaigns, where local MPs are winning despite
:06:40. > :06:44.the party leadership and not because of it. Already, talk is turning to
:06:45. > :06:48.what happens next. Is there anyway that Jeremy Corbyn, giving a
:06:49. > :06:55.horrendous set of general election results as many anticipate, may stay
:06:56. > :07:00.on all the same? It is not clear that even if the polls are right,
:07:01. > :07:05.that Mr Corbyn will go? John McDonnell implied it might not be
:07:06. > :07:10.the case but previously, he said it would be. What do you make of
:07:11. > :07:14.reports that the Labour strategy is not, I cannot quite believe I am
:07:15. > :07:19.saying this, not to win seats but maximise a share of the vote. If
:07:20. > :07:24.they do better than Ed Miliband with 30.5% of the vote, they believe they
:07:25. > :07:28.live to fight another day? Yes, it reminded me of Tony Benn's speech
:07:29. > :07:33.after the 1983 election where they said as bad as the Parliamentary
:07:34. > :07:36.defeat was there were 8 million votes for socialism. A big section
:07:37. > :07:44.of public opinion voted for that manifesto. I wonder whether that is
:07:45. > :07:49.Corbyn's supporters best chance of holding onto power. Whether they can
:07:50. > :07:54.say that those votes are a platform on which we can build. That said,
:07:55. > :07:58.even moderate Labour MPs and desperate for a quick leadership
:07:59. > :08:02.contest. I hear a lot of them say that they would like to leave it for
:08:03. > :08:06.one year. Maybe have Tom Watson as an acting Labour leader. He would
:08:07. > :08:10.still have a mandate. Give the top party a chance to regroup and get
:08:11. > :08:14.rid of some of its problems and decide where it stands on policy.
:08:15. > :08:17.Most importantly, for potential candidates to show what they are
:08:18. > :08:23.made of, rather than lurching straight into an Yvette Cooper
:08:24. > :08:30.Coronation. 30 seconds on the Liberal Democrats, their strategy
:08:31. > :08:38.was to mop up the Remain vote. Uncertain about the Brexit party in
:08:39. > :08:41.demise. Ukip. The remain as have a dilemma, the little Democrats are
:08:42. > :08:47.not a strong enough vessel with 89 MPs to risk all ongoing for them --
:08:48. > :08:52.the Liberal Democrats. Labour do not know where they stand on Brexit.
:08:53. > :09:01.There is not a robust alternative vessel for what is now a pro-Brexit
:09:02. > :09:03.Conservative Party. At the moment. Four weeks to go, but not for
:09:04. > :09:06.France... France has been voting since early
:09:07. > :09:08.this morning, and we should get a first estimate of who will be
:09:09. > :09:11.the country's next President Just to warn you there are some
:09:12. > :09:15.flashing images coming up. The choice in France
:09:16. > :09:17.is between a centre-left liberal reformer Emmanuel Macron
:09:18. > :09:19.and a right-wing nationalist Marine Le Pen - both have been
:09:20. > :09:22.casting their votes this morning. The two candidates topped
:09:23. > :09:24.a field of 11 presidential hopefuls in the first
:09:25. > :09:26.round of elections last month. The campaign has been marked
:09:27. > :09:28.by its unpredictability, and in a final twist on Friday
:09:29. > :09:34.evening, just before campaigning officially ended,
:09:35. > :09:37.Mr Macron's En Marche! group said it had been the victim
:09:38. > :09:42.of a "massive" hack, with a trove of documents
:09:43. > :09:44.released online. The Macron team said real documents
:09:45. > :09:47.were mixed up with fake ones, and electoral authorities warned
:09:48. > :09:50.media and the public that spreading details of the leaks would breach
:09:51. > :10:00.strict election rules. I'm joined now from
:10:01. > :10:13.Paris by the journalist As I left Paris recently, everybody
:10:14. > :10:17.told me that there was the consensus that Mr Macron would win, and win
:10:18. > :10:22.pretty comfortable you. Is there any reason to doubt that? -- pretty
:10:23. > :10:27.comfortably. I don't think so, there have been so many people left and
:10:28. > :10:32.right, former candidates who have decided that it was more important
:10:33. > :10:35.to vote for Macron, even if it was agreed with him, then run the risk
:10:36. > :10:43.of having Marine Le Pen as president. I think the spread is now
:10:44. > :10:46.20 points, 60% to Macron, 40% to Le Pen. So outside of the margin of
:10:47. > :10:52.error that it would take something huge for this to be observed. If the
:10:53. > :11:00.polls are right and Mr Macron wins, he has to put together a government,
:11:01. > :11:05.and in May there is a Coronation, then he faces parliamentary
:11:06. > :11:10.elections in June and could face a fractured parliament where he does
:11:11. > :11:13.not have a clear majority for his reforms. He could then faced
:11:14. > :11:18.difficulties in getting his programme through? I think that
:11:19. > :11:24.right now, with how things are looking, considering you have one
:11:25. > :11:29.half of the Republican party, the Conservative Party, they are making
:11:30. > :11:33.clear sides, not only that they want to support Macron but are supporting
:11:34. > :11:38.him actively. It means looking at the equivalent of the German party,
:11:39. > :11:44.the great coalition. Depending on how many seats established parties
:11:45. > :11:52.keep in the house committee may very well have a Republican Prime
:11:53. > :12:02.Minister, rather than having an adversarial MP, he may have someone
:12:03. > :12:09.who is relatively unknown outside of France, and a young woman. Contended
:12:10. > :12:15.that lost the Parez mayorship three years ago. She is a scientist and
:12:16. > :12:21.has been secretary of state. She would be an interesting coalition
:12:22. > :12:26.Prime Minister. Finally, Marine Le Pen, if she goes down to defeat a
:12:27. > :12:33.night, does she have the stomach and ambition, and the energy, to try it
:12:34. > :12:38.all again in 2022? She has all of that. The question is, would they
:12:39. > :12:43.let her? How badly would she lose? Her niece, now 27, a hard-working
:12:44. > :12:52.and steady person, unlike Marine Le Pen, who flunked her do paid --
:12:53. > :12:59.debate, her niece may decide that 2022 is her turn. Yet another Le
:13:00. > :13:03.Pen! All right, we will see. Just five years to wait, but only a few
:13:04. > :13:06.hours until the results of the election tonight.
:13:07. > :13:10.And we will get the exit polls here on the BBC. Given the exit polls
:13:11. > :13:15.will give as a pretty fair indication of what the result is
:13:16. > :13:18.going to be tonight. That will be on BBC news. That's all for today.
:13:19. > :13:21.The Daily Politics will cover every turn of this election campaign,
:13:22. > :13:25.And we're back here on BBC One at our usual time Next Sunday.
:13:26. > :13:28.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:13:29. > :14:16.Our crack team of experts use pioneering research
:14:17. > :14:19...to how to help your pet lose weight.