:00:38. > :00:42.Theresa May was cheered by the Tory faithful
:00:43. > :00:45.as she charted her vision for Brexit.
:00:46. > :00:49.We'll be talking about the plan - or what we know of it -
:00:50. > :00:51.with Lib Dem leader Tim Farron and former Tory Cabinet
:00:52. > :00:56.The olive branch might have withered but Jeremy Corbyn has
:00:57. > :00:57.stamped his authority on the Labour Party
:00:58. > :01:00.with a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle that's rewarded allies
:01:01. > :01:08.And one Ukip MEP is still in hospital following an altercation
:01:09. > :01:13.Just what exactly happened in a week which has seen
:01:14. > :01:25.In London, after the Brexit decision, negotiations for more
:01:26. > :01:35.But what can the mayor and London's councils expect to get?
:01:36. > :01:41.And we'll be talking about the tape that's derailing Donald Trump's bid
:01:42. > :01:46.We've also reshuffled our own top team here in the studio,
:01:47. > :01:49.and we've ended up with three journalists who show all the unity
:01:50. > :01:59.the humour of a Conservative Party conference speech,
:02:00. > :02:09.and the anger management of a meeting of Ukip MEPS.
:02:10. > :02:15.that means they'll probably be fighting in a few minutes.
:02:16. > :02:17.Yes, it's Helen Lewis, Tim Shipman and Isabel Oakeshott.
:02:18. > :02:19.So, where else would we start but with Brexit?
:02:20. > :02:22.And the Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has been talking
:02:23. > :02:26.He coined a new term - full Brexit - and he was asked
:02:27. > :02:28.if Britain was going to be leaving the EU's single market.
:02:29. > :02:34.This is Brexit. This is full Brexit if you like. We are going to be
:02:35. > :02:40.outside the European Union but we still, because it is over 40% of our
:02:41. > :02:46.trade, we still want to maximise our trade with it. A final question in
:02:47. > :02:51.the papers today. You see soft Brexiteers briefing against hard
:02:52. > :02:56.Brexiteers and vice versa. This is terribly damaging for the Cabinet
:02:57. > :03:02.presumably. We are all Brexiteers now. We have to make a success of
:03:03. > :03:04.it. So, a lot of briefing against Mr Hammond after his speech to the Tory
:03:05. > :03:15.conference. Then Mr Hammond's people briefing
:03:16. > :03:20.against people like Liam Fox David Davis, Boris Johnson. Today, one
:03:21. > :03:25.phrase was they were talking nonsense and garbage. When did we
:03:26. > :03:34.get the first Brexit resignation? A good question. We have full Brexit,
:03:35. > :03:39.open and close Brexit, hard and soft Brexit. The Prime Minister does not
:03:40. > :03:42.want to provide a running commentary so ministers are trying to tell us
:03:43. > :03:46.nothing but in interesting ways. I do not think anyone will resign but
:03:47. > :03:49.what is interesting as you get a situation where everyone is a
:03:50. > :03:52.Brexiteer now but there were very different views about how this is
:03:53. > :03:57.going to go forward. The Prime Minister herself, she did two things
:03:58. > :04:00.last week. She gave a speech for a domestic audience and a foreign
:04:01. > :04:07.audience. She is trying to embody the hopes and dreams of a group of
:04:08. > :04:09.people who feel they have been left out, the people who have been left
:04:10. > :04:12.behind on the domestic front and also voted for Brexit. By embodying
:04:13. > :04:17.those people fighting for their causes she is having to take a hard
:04:18. > :04:21.line on immigration. There may be no one about to resign now but we are
:04:22. > :04:26.only 100 days into this many government and the briefing on both
:04:27. > :04:32.sides of the so-called hard Brexit versus the so-called soft Brexit was
:04:33. > :04:37.the Treasury. It seems to embody the soft Brexit approach. The briefing
:04:38. > :04:42.is fierce. It is going to lead to trouble, to blood. This is a
:04:43. > :04:46.peak-time will stop we have just come away from the Tory Party
:04:47. > :04:50.conference where every journalist worth their salt is working the
:04:51. > :04:54.party circuit, going to dinners. It is an easy agenda to get every
:04:55. > :04:58.cabinet minister you lunch or dine with to give you their version of
:04:59. > :05:03.what Brexit said -- should mean. There is a melting pot here which is
:05:04. > :05:07.bubbling away. Things may become more disciplined in the week ahead.
:05:08. > :05:12.I do not think it is sustainable for Theresa May to say she will not give
:05:13. > :05:17.a running commentary. It is a red rag to every journalist and all her
:05:18. > :05:20.own Cabinet. You cannot keep that going for the next few months. She
:05:21. > :05:26.will have to give a clearer guide as to whether it is hard, soft, in or
:05:27. > :05:34.out, whatever it is. Theresa May is going to have to deploy the smack or
:05:35. > :05:39.firm government. She has been smacking away already. All three
:05:40. > :05:42.Brexit is happening to be airing personal opinions. The fact they are
:05:43. > :05:46.ministers in charge of this is totally irrelevant. There is
:05:47. > :05:50.political and economic things at work. What no one will say is that
:05:51. > :05:54.you can have hard Brexit but it will probably almost certainly have
:05:55. > :05:57.economic consequences. How do you go as a politician of the country and
:05:58. > :06:04.say we hear you want to control Iraq -- immigration but that means the
:06:05. > :06:09.country will be poorer? People will always be straddling it in a really
:06:10. > :06:12.uncomfortable way. OK. We'll be talking more about this as the
:06:13. > :06:15.programme goes on, you will not be surprised to hear.
:06:16. > :06:17.This week, Theresa May closed her party's conference
:06:18. > :06:19.with a speech designed to grab the centre ground
:06:20. > :06:23.She positioned the Conservatives as champion of the working classes
:06:24. > :06:25.and pledged to help those left behind by globalisation.
:06:26. > :06:28.We'll wait to see what any of that that means in practice.
:06:29. > :06:31.But it was what she had to say about Britain's exit
:06:32. > :06:34.from the EU that had the biggest immediate impact,
:06:35. > :06:37.not least on the value of the pound, as the world began to get a clearer
:06:38. > :06:48.We now know when the process of leaving the EU will begin.
:06:49. > :06:50.Theresa May has set a deadline of the end of next March
:06:51. > :06:53.for triggering Article 50, which formally begins the Brexit
:06:54. > :06:57.That allows only two years to do a deal, so we should be out
:06:58. > :07:01.of the EU by the end of March 2019 by the latest.
:07:02. > :07:03.The Government will also introduce a so-called Great Repeal
:07:04. > :07:08.Bill next year, which will end our membership of the EU.
:07:09. > :07:09.Theresa May talked of Britain being a fully
:07:10. > :07:15.The Prime Minister also said she will prioritise
:07:16. > :07:17.controlling immigration by ending the free movement
:07:18. > :07:22.Because being subject to the European Court of Justice
:07:23. > :07:23.and free movement are key requirements of membership
:07:24. > :07:27.of the EU single market, this strongly suggests the Prime
:07:28. > :07:31.Minister does not see Britain remaining a member.
:07:32. > :07:37.But there were some mixed messages about life after Brexit.
:07:38. > :07:40.The ability of EU citizens to stay in the UK remains a grey area.
:07:41. > :07:47.Brexit secretary David Davis said they would be 100% able to stay
:07:48. > :07:50.while Theresa May struck a more cautious tone.
:07:51. > :07:52.And Home Secretary Amber Rudd's plan to shame firms that
:07:53. > :07:59.take on foreign, rather than British, staff, faced a backlash
:08:00. > :08:00.from business and political opponents.
:08:01. > :08:05.There was also a range of mood music about life as we head for the door.
:08:06. > :08:07.Chancellor Philip Hammond was at one end, warning the country
:08:08. > :08:12.to brace for a roller-coaster ride ahead.
:08:13. > :08:14.But Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson attacked what he called
:08:15. > :08:17.gloomadon poppers and said Britain would be more active on the world
:08:18. > :08:24.Well, I'm joined now by the Liberal Democrat Leader Tim Farron.
:08:25. > :08:27.And the former Conservative Cabinet minister, Iain Duncan Smith.
:08:28. > :08:40.Let me come straight to the point, first of all with you, Iain Duncan
:08:41. > :08:45.Smith. Is it now clear that whatever relationship we will have with the
:08:46. > :08:51.single market, we will not be a member of the single market when
:08:52. > :08:55.Brexit is complete? I think when you add all these things together, it
:08:56. > :08:59.becomes, I believe, is pretty clear that what the Prime Minister said,
:09:00. > :09:07.what has been said by a number of Cabinet ministers, if the centre of
:09:08. > :09:11.our negotiations is that we intend to control our borders and the flow
:09:12. > :09:15.of migrants from the European Union, which has caused, in some cases, a
:09:16. > :09:20.great deal of damage to workers and their incomes at the bottom level,
:09:21. > :09:24.the skilled level, that means there is no way that the European Union
:09:25. > :09:30.will be able to allow us to be a member of the single market. That is
:09:31. > :09:35.not the same as access. Tim Farron, do you accept that is the way we are
:09:36. > :09:40.going? Whatever access arrangements we have, and we will have some
:09:41. > :09:46.arrangements. Even North Korea has access to the single market. But we
:09:47. > :09:51.won't be a member. That looks to be the way the Government is taking us.
:09:52. > :09:55.It is a massive mistake. I think Ian is wrong to say there has been a
:09:56. > :09:59.massive decision in favour of us leaving the single market and if
:10:00. > :10:13.that is what he is implying. It is given that a small majority voted to
:10:14. > :10:16.leave the EU but no one voted to leave the common or single market.
:10:17. > :10:18.It seems to me to be flying in the face of all the economic indicators
:10:19. > :10:21.of whatever the British people want, or is best for British jobs. It
:10:22. > :10:23.seems, for the Conservative Party, to be a reinterpretation of the
:10:24. > :10:31.result for a hard Brexit that nobody voted for. That is strong point. We
:10:32. > :10:35.do not have too much time this morning, so I'm going to try to keep
:10:36. > :10:40.this moving quickly. How do respond to that, Iain Duncan Smith? It is
:10:41. > :10:45.utter rubbish. The British people made it clear decision. They were
:10:46. > :10:50.asked a simple question. Do you want to stay in or leave the European
:10:51. > :10:54.Union? Were they asked whether they wanted to leave the single market?
:10:55. > :10:58.You need to have a look at the rules around this. The single market as
:10:59. > :11:05.part of the European Union, whether you like it or not. Do you think we
:11:06. > :11:12.should be in the single market? Do you agree with the overwhelming
:11:13. > :11:15.majority? No, no. I am sorry. The massive benefits which exist are
:11:16. > :11:19.asked to be able to trade with the European Union and have access.
:11:20. > :11:24.America has access. They sell more to the European Union than we do.
:11:25. > :11:29.Hold on. There is no point talking over each other because you are too
:11:30. > :11:34.far-away. Let me come to Tim Farron. If you want to be in the single
:11:35. > :11:39.market, you have to accept free movement. You have to accept the
:11:40. > :11:43.jurisdiction of the European port. In effect, that is membership of the
:11:44. > :11:56.EU. Isn't that what we voted against? -- the European Court. Tim
:11:57. > :12:02.Farron I am talking to. The reality is, and I accept the result of the
:12:03. > :12:06.referendum. It is the direction of the United Kingdom being towards the
:12:07. > :12:16.European Union as we stand. The deal we get at the end, as Lord Kurt, the
:12:17. > :12:21.writer of Article 50, agreed with me overnight because destination is not
:12:22. > :12:24.the same. You cannot start this process with democracy and end up
:12:25. > :12:28.with a stitch up, which is what the British people will get. Many people
:12:29. > :12:32.around the country voted to leave the European Union but there will
:12:33. > :12:37.not agree, I am certain, with having imposed upon them complete exit from
:12:38. > :12:42.any relationship with the nearest market and friends and neighbours,
:12:43. > :12:48.which will cost tens and hundreds of thousands of jobs. Let me get you to
:12:49. > :12:53.respond to that, Iain Duncan Smith. When article 50 was drafted, he did
:12:54. > :12:57.not mean it to help any country leave, he deliberately designed it
:12:58. > :13:01.so it would make it so difficult to leave it would almost be nigh on
:13:02. > :13:05.impossible. The second thing about the point that Tim makes, which is
:13:06. > :13:14.complete nonsense, is the added that we will lose tens of thousands of
:13:15. > :13:16.jobs. What we are looking for is a free trade relationship with the
:13:17. > :13:19.European Union. That is the key point. We are not leaving Europe, we
:13:20. > :13:25.are leaving the European Union. This is the problem. There is not a
:13:26. > :13:31.problem in that for common-sense and decent people. Hold on, Tim Farron.
:13:32. > :13:37.Sterling has slumped at the prospect of hard Brexit as it has dawned on
:13:38. > :13:42.the markets that the Government is heading for a so-called hard Brexit.
:13:43. > :13:47.Doesn't that give you pause for thought? Doesn't it make you think
:13:48. > :13:52.it might not be the right course? If you go to the airport at the moment,
:13:53. > :13:58.you would be lucky to get 1 euro for ?1. Doesn't that make you think? Not
:13:59. > :14:02.really. What you know about the free-flowing currency is it will
:14:03. > :14:05.fall and rise in accordance with what people speculate about and the
:14:06. > :14:12.prospects for the future. The point to look at is what the underlying
:14:13. > :14:16.story is for UK business. It used to be that the BBC generally spent its
:14:17. > :14:22.whole time telling us how terrible things work if you look at the FTSE
:14:23. > :14:27.250 or the FTSE 100. In the same period we have seen the FTSE 250,
:14:28. > :14:31.the small and medium companies, at record levels high. Much higher than
:14:32. > :14:36.before we decided to leave the European Union. Here is the other
:14:37. > :14:41.point. There is hugely a story about a strong dollar. The pound rose
:14:42. > :14:48.against the yen was the dollar rose against the euro, the yen, and the
:14:49. > :14:57.pout. Here is the deal. The pound is doing our supporters a of good. --
:14:58. > :15:03.the pound. There is no point heckling. That is my job. The point
:15:04. > :15:10.is that the pound having fallen means British business is doing very
:15:11. > :15:14.well. And that is a very good thing. Other than the slump in Stirling,
:15:15. > :15:22.what has gone wrong for the UK economy since the 23rd of June?
:15:23. > :15:29.First of all, I am not saying everything is completely calamitous.
:15:30. > :15:32.I take the views of all of the business leaders, people who wrote
:15:33. > :15:36.to the Financial Times yesterday, people who are former members of the
:15:37. > :15:39.Prime Minister's business advisory council, who say that whatever your
:15:40. > :15:44.view on leaving the European Union, departure from the single market
:15:45. > :15:50.would be calamitous. Really worrying indicator, this 31 year low drop in
:15:51. > :15:53.the pound, and we have not even left yet. That is what worries me. And
:15:54. > :15:58.what worries me more than anything else is that you've got the British
:15:59. > :16:03.business community, who now feel that the Conservative Party are
:16:04. > :16:06.listening to the English nationalist forces that have taken over the Tory
:16:07. > :16:11.party, rather than to good common-sense business practice. When
:16:12. > :16:16.Roger, who, the Ukip MEP, tells you that you have gone too far here,
:16:17. > :16:20.then you probably have gone too far. Iain Duncan Smith, let me bring you
:16:21. > :16:24.back in. We haven't got time for speeches this morning, from either
:16:25. > :16:29.of you. Iain Duncan Smith - don't we need to give just a bit on free
:16:30. > :16:34.movement, to secure open access? If we want really good access to the
:16:35. > :16:38.single market, we will have to give something on free movement?
:16:39. > :16:43.Actually, I wrote about a week ago in a paper which set out how you
:16:44. > :16:46.have control of your migration policy which is flexible enough to
:16:47. > :16:50.allow people to come into jobs inside the UK or outside the UK. And
:16:51. > :16:54.that is the kind of flexibility which leaves the British Government
:16:55. > :16:57.controlling the idea about how you access work through work permits.
:16:58. > :17:01.That means for higher skilled people, it will be a very light
:17:02. > :17:04.touch regime, but for the low skilled, which is where the most
:17:05. > :17:09.damage has been done, you have tight regime. You say, listen to British
:17:10. > :17:12.businesses - these are the self appointed losers of British
:17:13. > :17:17.business. That meet you something - these are the same people who told
:17:18. > :17:21.us before that Brexit... They told us, just like you did, Tim, that we
:17:22. > :17:25.would crash and burn afterwards, there would be a calamitous fall,
:17:26. > :17:32.the British economy would be destroyed. Some of us had a more
:17:33. > :17:41.lofty view. I wish everybody would get calm because what we want is
:17:42. > :17:44.Britain to do well. It is not my party... I have got one more
:17:45. > :17:52.question for you, Tim Farron - why have you now lost a second here in
:17:53. > :17:55.the House of Lords, Baroness Manzoor, who says you are not
:17:56. > :17:58.recognising the will of the people in the referendum by calling for a
:17:59. > :18:06.second referendum? She has joined the Tories, so that's Brive - how
:18:07. > :18:10.many more to go? Well, we are 20,000 up, Andrew. It is a peculiar
:18:11. > :18:14.decision which I totally respect. You only need to look at what's
:18:15. > :18:18.happened since June, with the Liberal Democrats gaining 20,000
:18:19. > :18:21.members. Thousands of them from the Conservatives, hundreds since their
:18:22. > :18:25.conference last week. You look at the by-election gains, the Liberal
:18:26. > :18:32.Democrats winning 18 in the last few months, and half of them... You are
:18:33. > :18:41.not set to lose her? I am always sad to lose people, but I am joined
:18:42. > :18:45.overjoyed to have gained 20,000. Come and joiners in the studio next
:18:46. > :18:48.time, where we can get a proper grip on this debate!
:18:49. > :18:50.With Parliament returning tomorrow, Jeremy Corbyn has been
:18:51. > :18:52.reshuffling his Shadow Cabinet, following his thumping win in this
:18:53. > :18:56.And unlike previous reshuffles, it's been a pretty decisive affair,
:18:57. > :18:58.which has seen him give big jobs to his supporters.
:18:59. > :19:03.Mr Corbyn has moved ally Dianne Abbott to Shadow
:19:04. > :19:05.Home Secretary, keeping Emily Thornberry at Shadow
:19:06. > :19:07.Foreign Secretary and moving Clive Lewis to Business.
:19:08. > :19:18.He's been replaced on the Defence brief by Nia Griffith,
:19:19. > :19:23.There's also a job for new Labour peer Shami Chakrabarti,
:19:24. > :19:26.who recently carried out a report into anti-semitism in the party.
:19:27. > :19:29.And chief whip Rosie Winterton is out.
:19:30. > :19:34.She's replaced by the veteran whip Nick Brown.
:19:35. > :19:39.You may remember him from the Gordon Brown years.
:19:40. > :19:41.Mr Corbyn has also brought back a number
:19:42. > :19:43.of Shadow Cabinet members, who resigned in protest
:19:44. > :19:46.They include Jon Ashworth, as Shadow Health Secretary.
:19:47. > :19:48.Although he's also been removed from the National Executive
:19:49. > :19:51.Committee, Labour's ruling body, where power has been finely balanced
:19:52. > :20:01.Well, to discuss this, we're joined by the Labour MP, John Mann.
:20:02. > :20:08.John Mann, who is a Corbynite critic. Mr Corbyn says this is the
:20:09. > :20:12.most diverse shadow cabinet ever, the best team to take Labour forward
:20:13. > :20:17.- what do you say? Well, it's his choice of team. And I think we
:20:18. > :20:21.should get on with the job now. Think he has won, whether people
:20:22. > :20:30.like it or not. And the last and we want I think is a year of
:20:31. > :20:36.internalised, inward looking navel-gazing. Like the last year?
:20:37. > :20:39.Like the last year. And I have said, I was not in favour of the timing of
:20:40. > :20:43.this challenge, but we actually have to get to grips with the referendum
:20:44. > :20:48.result and the fact that quite a lot of Labour voters voted to leave,
:20:49. > :20:51.unlike the general view in the Labour Party. There's lots of issues
:20:52. > :20:54.we should be looking at, but we should not be looking inwards. Is
:20:55. > :20:58.there much of an olive branch from Mr Corbyn to the Parliamentary
:20:59. > :21:02.Labour Party in this? I would not call it an olive branch. But if I
:21:03. > :21:08.was him, I would have done pretty much what he has done. He's won the
:21:09. > :21:12.election. If I was leader, I might choose different people. That
:21:13. > :21:15.probably goes for everyone of the 200-plus members of the
:21:16. > :21:21.Parliamentary party. But I think there is a bit of a... The idea you
:21:22. > :21:28.can negotiate a shadow cabinet or cabinet, I mean, it's important that
:21:29. > :21:31.he has all viewpoints represented somewhere, otherwise we'll be much
:21:32. > :21:35.weaker. And so we wait to see whether every view is going to get
:21:36. > :21:44.proper Leanne Wood. That's vital. But he's got to make the choices. --
:21:45. > :21:52.every view is going to get properly aired.. Quite a lot of London
:21:53. > :21:54.representation - how does that help people like you in the north and the
:21:55. > :22:00.Midlands? It's following the trends of Tony Blair, was always keen on
:22:01. > :22:04.having lots of people who worked in London, and Ed Miliband even more
:22:05. > :22:08.so. So it is not a new trait. He's chosen the people, but what's
:22:09. > :22:12.crucial is, with ceremony people from the metropolitan area, that
:22:13. > :22:17.they spend a lot of time out in areas like mean, not talking to the
:22:18. > :22:21.members, not doing photocalls, they can do that if they want, but going
:22:22. > :22:25.and talking to voters. If they do that, I've got no objection. If they
:22:26. > :22:29.don't, then that will mean that there is not sufficient knowledge of
:22:30. > :22:34.what the wider electorate is thinking. Those shadow cabinet
:22:35. > :22:39.members, every week, should be out there knocking on real doors, in
:22:40. > :22:44.areas that perhaps they are not too familiar with. Keir Starmer, your
:22:45. > :22:50.new shadow Brexit secretary, he has said that there should be a vote on
:22:51. > :22:55.article 50, that when the Government moves it, Parliament should vote.
:22:56. > :22:59.What do you think of that? Well, let's see what... We are quite a way
:23:00. > :23:02.away from seeing what Google is going to do. I think what is vital
:23:03. > :23:10.in terms of Brexit is actually to get into the detail, because there's
:23:11. > :23:15.a lot of slogans, the full Brexit, the soft Brexit, the hard Brexit...
:23:16. > :23:22.Actually, the issue is, what access do we get to markets, what access do
:23:23. > :23:26.we give to our markets? And is there any form of restriction on the free
:23:27. > :23:31.movement of labour? They are the three big issues. We need detail.
:23:32. > :23:34.And it's the negotiation not in the British Parliament but with the
:23:35. > :23:39.Germans and the French in particular that is vital. And of course that
:23:40. > :23:41.hasn't begun. Mr Corbyn told us at the Labour Party conference that he
:23:42. > :23:46.was not really that interested in controlling immigration. Keir
:23:47. > :23:52.Starmer said this morning on the BBC that immigration has become down -
:23:53. > :23:55.you must encouraged by that? What a coalition! Keir Starmer as the
:23:56. > :24:01.person responsible I hope we'll be talking to those of us who supported
:24:02. > :24:05.the Leave campaign in the Vale, and more fundamentally, getting out of
:24:06. > :24:11.those areas where the vast majority of Labour voters voted to leave. If
:24:12. > :24:16.he's going to do his job properly, that is critical. I'm confident that
:24:17. > :24:19.he will do that. Do you know yet what the party policy is on
:24:20. > :24:23.immigration? I'm sure that will emerge over the time. I do not know
:24:24. > :24:27.what the Conservative Party's ease, either. We do not know what the
:24:28. > :24:32.response of the Germans and the French will be. They have got
:24:33. > :24:37.elections next year. This is rather a movable feast in those countries.
:24:38. > :24:41.Therefore, we should be in 20 new negotiations, as Labour. It's
:24:42. > :24:48.crucial that our leadership talks and listens to Labour voters and to
:24:49. > :24:51.those who have voted Labour in the past.
:24:52. > :24:55.Jeremy Corbyn's re-shuffle has upset the Chair
:24:56. > :25:00.He represents the party's backbench MPs.
:25:01. > :25:02.In an e-mail, John Cryer said Mr Corbyn "did not
:25:03. > :25:05.engage" in a promised plan to reunite the party by allowing MPs
:25:06. > :25:10.Mr Cryer said he had been in talks with the leadership
:25:11. > :25:14.with the aim of "striking an agreement which would allow
:25:15. > :25:16.some places to be filled through elections, while the leader
:25:17. > :25:21.But on Wednesday it became clear "a reshuffle was under way,
:25:22. > :25:27.which had not been discussed or mentioned".
:25:28. > :25:29.Well, we're joined now by Barry Gardiner.
:25:30. > :25:39.He's kept his job as Shadow International Trade Secretary.
:25:40. > :25:45.What happened to the idea of electing at least part of the Shadow
:25:46. > :25:50.Cabinet? Well, I was part of the discussions in the Shadow Cabinet,
:25:51. > :25:55.with Rosie Winterton, who was the chief whip. And she made it very
:25:56. > :25:59.clear that what would need to happen is, there would need to be a vote
:26:00. > :26:04.first of all at the NEC to change the party rules. So I don't think
:26:05. > :26:08.anybody was under any illusion that we could have direct elections now
:26:09. > :26:11.to the Shadow Cabinet without that change in the party rules. Is the
:26:12. > :26:17.idea dead for the foreseeable future? Doormen, is the honest
:26:18. > :26:21.answer. That is for Jeremy to decide. But I think what would be
:26:22. > :26:27.clearly wrong is, if we now going to almost rerunning what was the
:26:28. > :26:31.election contest. And it would be foolish to saddle a leader with a
:26:32. > :26:35.group of people in the Shadow Cabinet that were out of sympathy.
:26:36. > :26:41.And indeed, that was why the Parliamentary Labour Party, when Ed
:26:42. > :26:43.Miliband asked us to give him the right to appoint the Shadow Cabinet,
:26:44. > :26:49.rather than the previous system, which had been elected... What do
:26:50. > :26:54.you make of the chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party, Mr
:26:55. > :26:59.Cryer, complaining that Mr Corbyn did not engage with him in this
:27:00. > :27:05.reshuffle? Look, I don't know what discussions took place. John is a
:27:06. > :27:11.very good friend. He's a very good representative of the PLP, as its
:27:12. > :27:13.chair. But he's one of the best connected people in the party, and
:27:14. > :27:21.the idea that anything took face without his knowledge I find it
:27:22. > :27:24.difficult to believe. He says, Niall Quinn OMP backing him up was a
:27:25. > :27:29.charades in the negotiations? That is a separate question. And I don't
:27:30. > :27:35.think that's true at all. Because the Shadow Cabinet said to the
:27:36. > :27:40.previous NEC meeting delegation, to actually initiate those
:27:41. > :27:46.negotiations. But I think John Mann, who sat here just a few moments ago,
:27:47. > :27:49.got it absolutely right - the Labour Party now must not look inwards for
:27:50. > :27:53.the next year, it must begin to look outwards. It must be challenging the
:27:54. > :28:00.government on what it is doing in our education system and saying, it
:28:01. > :28:02.is wrong to segregate our children. They must be challenging the
:28:03. > :28:07.government on housing and homelessness. I am delighted that
:28:08. > :28:10.John has come back into the Shadow Cabinet, nobody better to take
:28:11. > :28:15.forward our fight for housing in this country. If you want to appeal
:28:16. > :28:18.across the country, are there not too many London metropolitan types
:28:19. > :28:23.at the top? The four great Shadow offices of state all seemed to come
:28:24. > :28:29.from within walking distance of each other. It's a kind of shadow cabinet
:28:30. > :28:32.of all BMW one talents? Well, you could ever welcomed the fact that
:28:33. > :28:49.two of those great offices of state, for the first time ever, are held by
:28:50. > :28:54.women. -- NW1 talents. Broomstick is, it is very London centric. It is
:28:55. > :28:59.not because you have got five MPs from the north-east in the Shadow
:29:00. > :29:03.Cabinet, four from Greater Manchester, all of whom are women.
:29:04. > :29:07.You've got five from Yorkshire. In terms of the population of the
:29:08. > :29:16.country as a whole, it's very representative of whether Labour
:29:17. > :29:20.votes are. John Ashworth accepted the Shadow bridge but is no longer
:29:21. > :29:26.on the National Executive Committee. Does Mr Corbyn now have a majority
:29:27. > :29:32.on the NEC, the ruling body of the Labour Party? The majority would
:29:33. > :29:37.always be on issue by issue. I don't think anybody goes to the NEC
:29:38. > :29:41.determined to wage wall or battle. I assure that people go there to
:29:42. > :29:44.listen to arguments and decide what is in the best interest of the party
:29:45. > :29:49.and the country and take Ossetians accordingly. Why was it important
:29:50. > :29:56.that Mr Ashworth stepped down? I don't know whether it was important.
:29:57. > :30:01.John has been a superb member of the Shadow Cabinet. He has always
:30:02. > :30:05.represented very clearly the views of party members, and I think he
:30:06. > :30:16.will do a fantastic job at health. We will leave it there.
:30:17. > :30:23.I still have energy and can. When we last spoke, I put it to you that we
:30:24. > :30:30.were massive importers of energy including gas. I came here primed
:30:31. > :30:36.for that. Next time I will bring the power with meat!
:30:37. > :30:41.The party with the third highest vote share at the general election
:30:42. > :30:43.has, just since Tuesday, lost a leader, seen
:30:44. > :30:46.the return of Nigel Farage - even if only temporarily -
:30:47. > :30:48.and seen the favourite to take over end up in hospital
:30:49. > :30:50.after an altercation in the European Parliament.
:30:51. > :31:03.Our Ellie's been watching the soap opera unfold.
:31:04. > :31:06.So, we've all heard the rumours about the internal
:31:07. > :31:11.Well, this week, they played out in front of our very eyes on the TV
:31:12. > :31:14.screens in the most dramatic of ways.
:31:15. > :31:21.It was only just over three weeks ago.
:31:22. > :31:33.18 days later, she realised that wasn't going to happen.
:31:34. > :31:35.In her resignation statement, she said she didn't have
:31:36. > :31:37.sufficient authority, nor the full support, of her MEP
:31:38. > :31:41.colleagues and party officers to continue.
:31:42. > :31:43.There was also this clue in the official form she filled
:31:44. > :31:46.in for the Electoral Commission, where she signed her name
:31:47. > :31:54.In the meantime, Nigel Farage seemed pretty chipper, explaining
:31:55. > :32:01.I keep getting over the wall and running for the hills.
:32:02. > :32:03.Before I am finally free, they drag me back.
:32:04. > :32:10.It doesn't have one because she's resigned.
:32:11. > :32:12.The Ukip constitution is quite clear.
:32:13. > :32:14.In these circumstances, the National Executive Committee has
:32:15. > :32:18.the right to appoint an interim leader, which I presume it will do
:32:19. > :32:22.at its meeting on the 17th of October.
:32:23. > :32:25.I'm told the NEC might have met earlier but someone
:32:26. > :32:28.is on is on a cruise, so it wouldn't be quorate.
:32:29. > :32:30.It was starting to feel a bit like a soap opera.
:32:31. > :32:37.It's almost like being a part of Dynasty.
:32:38. > :32:39.By close of play, this man, who probably would have been leader
:32:40. > :32:42.last time if he hadn't been barred from standing had thrown
:32:43. > :32:48.But then things went really off script, when he, Steven Woolfe,
:32:49. > :32:51.after a meeting with colleagues that went...
:32:52. > :32:55.There are mixed accounts of what happened.
:32:56. > :32:57.It's two grown men getting involved in an altercation.
:32:58. > :33:05.We're talking about a dispute that finished up physically.
:33:06. > :33:10.I understand there was an argument between some MEPs and Steven,
:33:11. > :33:16.I think, picked a fight with one of them, and came off worst.
:33:17. > :33:19.It later transpired that the MEPs had been arguing about reports that
:33:20. > :33:23.Mr Woolfe had considered defecting to the Tories.
:33:24. > :33:26.That had ended in a scuffle with this man.
:33:27. > :33:36.It was, as people in Hull would say, handbags at dawn.
:33:37. > :33:39.He even tweeted a picture of his hands to prove it.
:33:40. > :33:43.But Mr Woolfe's team questioned that version of events and said his
:33:44. > :33:47.Either way, the two men have been in touch and say
:33:48. > :33:50.they want to meet - handbags and all -
:33:51. > :33:54.But that might not be the end of the story.
:33:55. > :33:57.So, part of Ukip's charm has always been to say and do
:33:58. > :33:59.things the other party would never even dream of.
:34:00. > :34:03.But this week has been different and a number of senior Ukip sources
:34:04. > :34:08.have told me that what happens next will be make or break for the party.
:34:09. > :34:11.They say that will depend on who the next leader is.
:34:12. > :34:13.Before all this happens, Steven Woolfe, seen
:34:14. > :34:17.as a disciple of Nigel Farage, would have been favourite.
:34:18. > :34:22.It must surely have been obvious to anybody, having seen this,
:34:23. > :34:24.that Steven Woolfe, and of course Mike Hookem,
:34:25. > :34:27.I don't think Mike would put his hat into the ring.
:34:28. > :34:31.Surely they can't now consider that either of them could stand
:34:32. > :34:37.The party's biggest donor, Arron Banks,
:34:38. > :34:43.It's fairly indicative of the party split between those who think
:34:44. > :34:46.the new leader should be moulded in Nigel Farage's image,
:34:47. > :34:50.and those who can think of little worse.
:34:51. > :34:55.The party is bigger than any one individual.
:34:56. > :34:57.Everybody has a responsibility within Ukip to safeguard
:34:58. > :35:06.its reputation and that's what I'm asking all people to do now
:35:07. > :35:13.The drama may be over for this week but with the leadership campaign
:35:14. > :35:15.looming, there will be plenty more episodes to come.
:35:16. > :35:17.And we're joined now by the Ukip MEP Bill Etheridge.
:35:18. > :35:19.He was at the meeting where the "altercation"
:35:20. > :35:22.between Steven Woolfe and Mike Hookem took place,
:35:23. > :35:26.and he stood to be leader in the party's last
:35:27. > :35:33.leadership contest, which only finished in September.
:35:34. > :35:43.We have learned, while on-air, that Steven Woolfe has left the hospital
:35:44. > :35:52.in Strasbourg. Bill Etheridge, were punches thrown? First of all, as all
:35:53. > :35:56.MEPs we should apologise to our member ship and supporters for all
:35:57. > :36:00.this nonsense. With regards to punches thrown, I was first on the
:36:01. > :36:07.scene. I did not see punches thrown. I saw Mike with his hands down his
:36:08. > :36:13.side and is Steven Wolfe halfway through and unlatched door. --
:36:14. > :36:18.Steven Woolfe. He was on the floor. Before you got on the scene, there
:36:19. > :36:23.could have been blows exchanged? In the 15 to 30 seconds before I got
:36:24. > :36:26.there, there is a possibility but Mike has denied that there were any
:36:27. > :36:33.punches thrown and I have not seen any evidence that their world. The
:36:34. > :36:36.friends of Steven Woolfe has said independent medical examinations
:36:37. > :36:41.suggests he does have wounds and bruising which cannot be explained
:36:42. > :36:44.by simply a fall to the floor. I am sure the chairman of the party will
:36:45. > :36:48.look into that and see the exact information being discussed. When it
:36:49. > :36:57.is something put out by sources or friends, let's wait and see the
:36:58. > :36:59.actual information. Was it the idea of Steven Woolfe that the dispute
:37:00. > :37:05.should be settled outside? Yes, Stephen stood up and said, if this
:37:06. > :37:09.is the temperature of your comments, I think we should sort out
:37:10. > :37:14.man-to-man. He took off his jacket and walked outside. Unfortunately,
:37:15. > :37:17.and he has said he regrets it, Mike went outside and did the same thing
:37:18. > :37:24.himself was that neither of them should have done it. It was foolish.
:37:25. > :37:28.If that is response by Steven Woolfe to an argument, no matter how
:37:29. > :37:34.heated, among his own MEPs, does that disqualify him to stand as
:37:35. > :37:42.leader? It does not disqualify him. It says something about his
:37:43. > :37:44.temperament. What I will say is it was not heated argument at the
:37:45. > :37:46.start. We were discussing the fact he had been in a conversation with
:37:47. > :37:50.the Conservative Party about joining. Only a day or two earlier
:37:51. > :37:54.he had said he was not going to join for that we asked if that was to do
:37:55. > :37:58.with the fact that he heard Diane James was standing down. That was
:37:59. > :38:03.the purpose of the meeting, to find out what Steven Woolfe was doing
:38:04. > :38:07.about the Conservative Party. Due to this altercation, we never got an
:38:08. > :38:12.answer. I personally would like need to know what he was doing. What was
:38:13. > :38:20.said? I and stand this happened quite quickly into the meeting. What
:38:21. > :38:25.was it that was said which meant, take the jacket off, we will settle
:38:26. > :38:29.this outside? Steven Woolfe had said about how upset he was that he could
:38:30. > :38:35.not stand in the summer, his form were late by 17 minutes. Mike said
:38:36. > :38:40.whether it is your fault and no one else's. Steven Woolfe reacted
:38:41. > :38:43.angrily and we could get no further conversation. That was the extent of
:38:44. > :38:50.the provocation, to say it was your fault. He was not swearing but he
:38:51. > :38:55.basically said, that's your fault, it is your responsibility. Are you
:38:56. > :38:59.going to stand in this leadership contest now? Up until this happens,
:39:00. > :39:03.I was seriously considering rolling in to try to make sure we did not
:39:04. > :39:08.have people who had been negative towards the party and towards Nigel
:39:09. > :39:13.taking over. Now I do not feel I can support Steven Woolfe and, yes, I
:39:14. > :39:18.will be standing. Isn't the bitter truth, your previously the last for
:39:19. > :39:23.18 days. Two MPs have now said to step outside and we will sort this
:39:24. > :39:29.with jackets. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Ukip is not a
:39:30. > :39:35.proper, functioning party without Nigel Farage at the helm? You cannot
:39:36. > :39:40.survive without him. Nigel is a fantastic leader. He has led us very
:39:41. > :39:43.strongly and powerfully. It is up to us to take responsibility. That is
:39:44. > :39:49.one reason I want to do it to bring the party together. Every time he
:39:50. > :39:53.goes quickly fall apart. There is no functioning Ukip I would suggest
:39:54. > :39:57.without Nigel Farage. Up to us to make sure we get systems in place
:39:58. > :40:01.and make sure we have strong leadership and pull the party
:40:02. > :40:05.together. We can do it. We have 4 million voters than 30,000 members.
:40:06. > :40:09.They must be feeling very let down. It is up to us to make sure we do
:40:10. > :40:10.the right thing and look after them and be there to represent them.
:40:11. > :40:12.Thank you. We say goodbye to
:40:13. > :40:17.viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for
:40:18. > :40:19.Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes,
:40:20. > :40:22.the Week Ahead, when we'll be talking about the recording,
:40:23. > :40:24.which some think could derail Donald Trump's bid
:40:25. > :03:45.for the White House. Just what exactly is the
:03:46. > :03:51.Government's see an asking fans to recall how many foreign workers they
:03:52. > :03:58.employ? Has Donald Trump's is at a campaign been halted ill of the
:03:59. > :04:03.water line? Two big questions for our Week Ahead. The Home Office is
:04:04. > :04:08.pumping out briefings as we speak, trying to clarify what the Tubman
:04:09. > :04:18.Palacios, announced by Amber Rudd at the Tory conference. -- the
:04:19. > :04:23.Government plan is. They wanted companies having lists of people who
:04:24. > :04:27.worked. Now it may be just industrywide for that we're not
:04:28. > :04:33.going to name the companies or publish any lists. And it sounds
:04:34. > :04:37.like a classic party conference kite flyers and it has gone hideously
:04:38. > :04:40.wrong when even the brother of the Home Secretary is hitting out at it.
:04:41. > :04:45.Lotsa people would not have a problem imprisonable with the idea
:04:46. > :04:50.companies having to give an idea of the proportion of foreign workers
:04:51. > :04:56.employed. Where it gets sinister is where you are naming people and that
:04:57. > :05:01.becomes very difficult. Does not seem that the Government, even as it
:05:02. > :05:06.badly briefed this out, posted the Amber red speech there was never the
:05:07. > :05:13.intention of publishing a list of there being 500 migrants working for
:05:14. > :05:19.this company and these are the names. That would be absurd. What is
:05:20. > :05:23.the point? The latest line is it would be a private list for
:05:24. > :05:28.government. It reflects a bigger problem. Individually, these
:05:29. > :05:32.measures, you can see a principled argument. There was an avalanche
:05:33. > :05:36.building up with a hostile climate towards migrants. That might start
:05:37. > :05:44.making people queasy. Lots of parents have been text being and
:05:45. > :05:50.saying whether their children have a passport. You are going to need to
:05:51. > :05:58.do this data collection. It makes people uneasy. There was a plus in
:05:59. > :06:02.the idea. Ed Miliband had proposed something similar. The Americans do
:06:03. > :06:07.it. The idea that we look at those industries or companies where there
:06:08. > :06:10.is a high proportion of migrant workers, it sends a message that
:06:11. > :06:14.that is where our skilled effort should go. We should be training the
:06:15. > :06:18.people here already in these skills because we are short of them. That
:06:19. > :06:26.would seem to be part of a sensible labour market policy. But that, I
:06:27. > :06:30.would suggest to you, is entirely lost in this. It has been a
:06:31. > :06:35.catastrophe in the way has been put out. What you have is different
:06:36. > :06:40.levels of what Brexit looks like. The Home Secretary voted for Remain
:06:41. > :06:45.and the Prime Minister voted for Remain. They are all trying to be
:06:46. > :06:48.tough. If you speak to Amber Road when she does not think there should
:06:49. > :06:52.be any controls over skilled immigration. The message wit is
:06:53. > :07:01.coming through is we are going to clamp down on this stuff. -- which
:07:02. > :07:06.is coming through. She is broadly liberal in outlets. Was she trying
:07:07. > :07:10.to be more Brexit than Brexit? It is a really difficult position for that
:07:11. > :07:13.she is running the department that will have to implement all the
:07:14. > :07:21.things she does not believe in. Theresa May is failing to implement
:07:22. > :07:28.proper immigration controls. She is following Mrs May in the job she has
:07:29. > :07:36.to do. Let's move on to something rather bigger. This is this video,
:07:37. > :07:40.broadcast, which has emerged of the Republican presidential candidate,
:07:41. > :07:46.Donald Trump. It seems to be a watershed moment in the presidential
:07:47. > :07:51.campaign of 2016. He is caught on tape making lewd comments about
:07:52. > :08:12.women. It is a long tape so let's have a look at a part of it.
:08:13. > :08:20.And there is lots more where that came from. Yesterday other tapes
:08:21. > :08:23.came out of Mr Trump making inappropriate remarks in the past
:08:24. > :08:30.when the microphone was also running. Yesterday in the United
:08:31. > :08:35.States has been a remarkable day, almost unprecedented. Senior
:08:36. > :08:39.Republicans are now poised to abandon Mr Trump as Republican
:08:40. > :08:45.candidate. Two dozen Republican lawmakers have already disowned him.
:08:46. > :08:50.Senior figures like Senator Mike Leigh of Utah and John McCain, who
:08:51. > :08:56.was the Republican candidate several years ago from Arizona. Senator --
:08:57. > :09:05.the Senator in New Hampshire who has a tough race to work. We are joined
:09:06. > :09:10.by Jan from publicans Overseas. This is a catastrophe for your party. It
:09:11. > :09:14.is. It is not as catastrophic as people are making it. You have
:09:15. > :09:20.listed the elites. They are the ones that loss throughout the primaries.
:09:21. > :09:25.Jeb Bush wasted 154 million. Monitoring all the polls, it is only
:09:26. > :09:32.making Trump's port is that much stronger. May be the elites were
:09:33. > :09:39.right that Mr Trump was a wholly unsuitable person to be your party's
:09:40. > :09:42.and did it. Is he unsuitable? How much of understanding what the
:09:43. > :09:51.voters want and how much they messed up the Government plays into it? I
:09:52. > :10:01.am beyond being able to defend him. Yes, I am. Is number of people in
:10:02. > :10:05.your party are poised to disown him? There is another part for me. As a
:10:06. > :10:10.psychologist I wrote an international bestseller where I
:10:11. > :10:18.interviewed 4000 men and followed slides. Some of this is not
:10:19. > :10:21.shocking. I have experienced men in power who speak as Donald Trump
:10:22. > :10:27.does. You may not want someone like that as president. The Republican
:10:28. > :10:32.National committee has, as of now, frozen any further spending on the
:10:33. > :10:36.Donald Trump presidential campaign. The Republican National committee. I
:10:37. > :10:42.agree that they needed to do this if they wanted to even retain any women
:10:43. > :10:46.in the party. This has been a very smart move. Basically, we need to
:10:47. > :10:50.watch the debate tonight. I can come on your show tomorrow and tell you
:10:51. > :10:59.whether it is all over or not. This debate could well be major in Saint
:11:00. > :11:02.Louis. Nine o'clock UK time cost of the people who are worried now are
:11:03. > :11:07.the senators, who are up for re-election. There are a lot of
:11:08. > :11:11.them, a lot more than Democrats. The House is all up. They are up every
:11:12. > :11:15.two years, and governors are up for re-election as well. They are
:11:16. > :11:19.terrified. They thought they could do is to budget with Donald Trump as
:11:20. > :11:27.head of the ticket. Now they are really worried they cannot. There is
:11:28. > :11:29.not time to get rid of him, as I understand it from legal opinions
:11:30. > :11:32.which have come out. There is not enough time. Only if he is willing
:11:33. > :11:36.to go. Clearly he is not. This interview says it all. The comments
:11:37. > :11:42.are basically indefensible. What can you say apart from it being locker
:11:43. > :11:46.room banter. The real danger is the debate tonight, I think this could
:11:47. > :11:51.be the most explosive debate we have ever seen in American politics.
:11:52. > :11:56.Donald Trump is that only play is to drag Bill Clinton into this. He said
:11:57. > :12:01.that Bill Clinton said worse things on the golf course. There is a great
:12:02. > :12:06.phrase from Ronald Reagan on Gary Hart back in 1988 saying, boys
:12:07. > :12:09.should be boys but boy should not be president either. I think tonight
:12:10. > :12:15.you will see boys being boys again. Some Republicans are saying that
:12:16. > :12:19.Donald Trump should be replaced by the governor of Indiana. The problem
:12:20. > :12:24.is, the ballot papers have already been printed. 400,000 have already
:12:25. > :12:29.voted in the election in early voting and, constitutionally, it is
:12:30. > :12:34.by no means clear that you can, at this late stage, drop the top of the
:12:35. > :12:39.ticket and replace him with somebody else. They have not been a great
:12:40. > :12:46.deal of opposition research done on Mike pence. This is the same as with
:12:47. > :12:52.Bernie Sanders. You do not know until you get into the heat of the
:12:53. > :12:56.election. There are prominent Republicans saying that is an
:12:57. > :13:00.option. It is extraordinary to think this is the point where people have
:13:01. > :13:04.ditched him. There has been comment after comment and relating to the
:13:05. > :13:08.fact he was already falling in the polls after the Republican National
:13:09. > :13:12.Convention who was becoming within a whisker that he was catching up with
:13:13. > :13:17.Hillary Clinton. Now he has tailed away four. A senior Republican said
:13:18. > :13:21.to me, we have lost the White House and need to do what we can to hold
:13:22. > :13:27.on to the Senate figures really badly, we could lose that as well.
:13:28. > :13:30.It is very serious right now. For one who would like a Republican in
:13:31. > :13:35.the White House and to us to retain the Senate, and Congress, it is
:13:36. > :13:40.going to be worrying. As I said, we need to see what happens tonight and
:13:41. > :13:44.then we are going to really know. Live from Saint Louis it will be on
:13:45. > :13:54.the BBC News Channel at nine o'clock London time. Get in the popcorn and
:13:55. > :14:00.maybe an extra bottle of Blue None! The Daily Politics will be back from
:14:01. > :14:03.midday tomorrow. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.