:01:11. > :01:14.Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven
:01:15. > :01:16.mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.
:01:17. > :01:18.The President says "it's working out very nicely"
:01:19. > :01:22.After getting too close to comfort for some to the US President,
:01:23. > :01:25.Theresa May refuses to condemn his refugee ban despite being asked
:01:26. > :01:27.about it three times at a press conference.
:01:28. > :01:29.Should she have spoken out more strongly?
:01:30. > :01:31.We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage
:01:32. > :01:34.what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's
:01:35. > :01:37.In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,
:01:38. > :01:39.has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze
:01:40. > :01:41.and why it doesn't apply to everybody.
:01:42. > :01:43.And with me, the best and brightest political
:01:44. > :01:45.panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia
:01:46. > :01:47.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:48. > :01:50.It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that
:01:51. > :01:53.Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven
:01:54. > :01:59.President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,
:02:00. > :02:02.Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from
:02:03. > :02:07.where refugees are banned from until further notice.
:02:08. > :02:09.Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban
:02:10. > :02:15.on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.
:02:16. > :02:18.Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out
:02:19. > :02:27.But the ban has sparked protests across the US,
:02:28. > :02:29.as people affected and already in the air were detained
:02:30. > :02:33.US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many
:02:34. > :02:39.At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked
:02:40. > :02:44.about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...
:02:45. > :02:46.Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'
:02:47. > :02:52.The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy
:02:53. > :02:55.on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number
:02:56. > :02:58.of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.
:02:59. > :03:12.Downing Street later issued a statement saying:
:03:13. > :03:15.This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why
:03:16. > :03:18.Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's
:03:19. > :03:23.The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip
:03:24. > :03:28.She wants to see the evidence, she wants
:03:29. > :03:32.to understand precisely what the implications are.
:03:33. > :03:35.She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with
:03:36. > :03:39.President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and
:03:40. > :03:42.understand it, and then will respond to that.
:03:43. > :03:45.I think there are times where, you know, there's always
:03:46. > :03:48.pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.
:03:49. > :03:51.The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it
:03:52. > :03:54.We're joined now from North London by the Conservative
:03:55. > :04:06.Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more
:04:07. > :04:15.vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David
:04:16. > :04:19.just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an
:04:20. > :04:23.appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I
:04:24. > :04:29.wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects
:04:30. > :04:34.our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it
:04:35. > :04:40.is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with
:04:41. > :04:44.Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but
:04:45. > :04:48.she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism
:04:49. > :04:54.about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in
:04:55. > :04:57.Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street
:04:58. > :05:00.spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have
:05:01. > :05:04.not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of
:05:05. > :05:09.criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,
:05:10. > :05:12.so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I
:05:13. > :05:16.wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the
:05:17. > :05:22.moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address
:05:23. > :05:25.things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the
:05:26. > :05:33.hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you
:05:34. > :05:37.like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is
:05:38. > :05:40.about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she
:05:41. > :05:43.should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would
:05:44. > :05:46.have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald
:05:47. > :05:49.Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to
:05:50. > :05:53.understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with
:05:54. > :05:57.the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would
:05:58. > :06:01.engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day
:06:02. > :06:07.temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority
:06:08. > :06:13.population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the
:06:14. > :06:17.biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this
:06:18. > :06:23.temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is
:06:24. > :06:27.wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through
:06:28. > :06:30.and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.
:06:31. > :06:35.It can't be right that a president in that position of power can
:06:36. > :06:40.arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already
:06:41. > :06:45.been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach
:06:46. > :06:49.I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by
:06:50. > :07:02.this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?
:07:03. > :07:08.I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by
:07:09. > :07:12.this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are
:07:13. > :07:15.desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by
:07:16. > :07:19.this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only
:07:20. > :07:22.because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it
:07:23. > :07:26.is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do
:07:27. > :07:33.you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is
:07:34. > :07:36.the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work
:07:37. > :07:40.with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was
:07:41. > :07:43.that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our
:07:44. > :07:49.country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is
:07:50. > :07:53.the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate
:07:54. > :07:57.within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,
:07:58. > :08:01.but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,
:08:02. > :08:04.should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a
:08:05. > :08:11.great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of
:08:12. > :08:13.Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the
:08:14. > :08:18.protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I
:08:19. > :08:24.believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have
:08:25. > :08:28.achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a
:08:29. > :08:31.number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am
:08:32. > :08:34.inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege
:08:35. > :08:40.of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places
:08:41. > :08:43.where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the
:08:44. > :08:53.right place. Thank you for joining us.
:08:54. > :08:59.Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald
:09:00. > :09:03.Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,
:09:04. > :09:08.particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going
:09:09. > :09:14.to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on
:09:15. > :09:18.every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa
:09:19. > :09:24.May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time
:09:25. > :09:29.to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.
:09:30. > :09:37.When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and
:09:38. > :09:41.can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying
:09:42. > :09:46.more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing
:09:47. > :09:49.Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going
:09:50. > :09:52.to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's
:09:53. > :09:58.going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It
:09:59. > :10:03.does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special
:10:04. > :10:06.relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven
:10:07. > :10:11.wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.
:10:12. > :10:16.You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for
:10:17. > :10:19.American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what
:10:20. > :10:25.Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why
:10:26. > :10:29.I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has
:10:30. > :10:33.implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was
:10:34. > :10:40.campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real
:10:41. > :10:43.Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the
:10:44. > :10:48.executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a
:10:49. > :10:53.class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day
:10:54. > :10:59.limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,
:11:00. > :11:03.President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.
:11:04. > :11:06.Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in
:11:07. > :11:14.recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with
:11:15. > :11:18.Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned
:11:19. > :11:23.been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not
:11:24. > :11:26.included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in
:11:27. > :11:29.such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal
:11:30. > :11:39.thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It
:11:40. > :11:45.is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge
:11:46. > :11:49.in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue
:11:50. > :11:55.for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree
:11:56. > :11:59.with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa
:12:00. > :12:05.May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is
:12:06. > :12:10.reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is
:12:11. > :12:15.nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with
:12:16. > :12:20.him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time
:12:21. > :12:24.now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee
:12:25. > :12:30.policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as
:12:31. > :12:34.well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this
:12:35. > :12:38.anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she
:12:39. > :12:42.says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.
:12:43. > :12:47.These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does
:12:48. > :12:51.something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her
:12:52. > :12:55.administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical
:12:56. > :13:00.situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in
:13:01. > :13:05.the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.
:13:06. > :13:07.We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless
:13:08. > :13:11.communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for
:13:12. > :13:15.large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't
:13:16. > :13:19.excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via
:13:20. > :13:24.Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible
:13:25. > :13:28.excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than
:13:29. > :13:32.many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with
:13:33. > :13:36.the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of
:13:37. > :13:39.Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is
:13:40. > :13:46.already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't
:13:47. > :13:48.know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky
:13:49. > :13:52.situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first
:13:53. > :13:54.foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit
:13:55. > :13:57.was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,
:13:58. > :13:59.keen for a new trading relationship with the United States
:14:00. > :14:02.in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated
:14:03. > :14:04.the new US President for his "stunning election victory"
:14:05. > :14:06.but might not have intended to be pictured walking
:14:07. > :14:08.through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping
:14:09. > :14:12.Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade
:14:13. > :14:15.will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President
:14:16. > :14:24.told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister
:14:25. > :14:27.said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries
:14:28. > :14:31.increased their defence spending It's been announced
:14:32. > :14:37.that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,
:14:38. > :14:38.with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead
:14:39. > :14:43.to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as
:14:44. > :14:48.Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's
:14:49. > :14:51.going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear
:14:52. > :14:53.to Donald Trump her continued
:14:54. > :14:59.backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over
:15:00. > :15:01.the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer
:15:02. > :15:04.to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues
:15:05. > :15:07.that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former
:15:08. > :15:23.Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's
:15:24. > :15:28.decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the
:15:29. > :15:32.United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which
:15:33. > :15:36.appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He
:15:37. > :15:40.was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to
:15:41. > :15:48.protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven
:15:49. > :15:54.countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if
:15:55. > :16:00.he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just
:16:01. > :16:03.look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela
:16:04. > :16:10.Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,
:16:11. > :16:13.look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all
:16:14. > :16:19.of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria
:16:20. > :16:23.literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in
:16:24. > :16:27.virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have
:16:28. > :16:32.been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of
:16:33. > :16:37.a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of
:16:38. > :16:41.persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But
:16:42. > :16:45.you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you
:16:46. > :16:49.said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing
:16:50. > :16:56.Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees
:16:57. > :17:04.into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.
:17:05. > :17:08.He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those
:17:09. > :17:12.comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's
:17:13. > :17:17.policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is
:17:18. > :17:20.fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this
:17:21. > :17:30.country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any
:17:31. > :17:35.terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have
:17:36. > :17:39.been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have
:17:40. > :17:44.been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why
:17:45. > :17:48.would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people
:17:49. > :17:52.that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into
:17:53. > :17:57.Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not
:17:58. > :18:01.for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening
:18:02. > :18:06.process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with
:18:07. > :18:11.the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to
:18:12. > :18:14.America, they then go through biometric screening, database
:18:15. > :18:25.screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence
:18:26. > :18:32.agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It
:18:33. > :18:36.is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we
:18:37. > :18:39.have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald
:18:40. > :18:46.Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and
:18:47. > :18:49.then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned
:18:50. > :18:55.he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since
:18:56. > :19:00.you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing
:19:01. > :19:05.you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not
:19:06. > :19:08.asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you
:19:09. > :19:14.take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,
:19:15. > :19:18.of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in
:19:19. > :19:22.terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say
:19:23. > :19:25.it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the
:19:26. > :19:29.world have not been included in this. The point is they have made
:19:30. > :19:34.this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about
:19:35. > :19:41.the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him
:19:42. > :19:45.to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you
:19:46. > :19:49.feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total
:19:50. > :19:54.ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that
:19:55. > :19:58.what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be
:19:59. > :20:05.talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We
:20:06. > :20:11.will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What
:20:12. > :20:17.advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa
:20:18. > :20:21.May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the
:20:22. > :20:25.Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been
:20:26. > :20:30.surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who
:20:31. > :20:34.say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make
:20:35. > :20:38.it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can
:20:39. > :20:42.be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister
:20:43. > :20:48.who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally
:20:49. > :20:53.herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial
:20:54. > :20:57.president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building
:20:58. > :21:02.a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking
:21:03. > :21:06.of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is
:21:07. > :21:11.controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke
:21:12. > :21:16.in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it
:21:17. > :21:19.is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the
:21:20. > :21:23.British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I
:21:24. > :21:27.think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in
:21:28. > :21:32.her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato
:21:33. > :21:38.members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there
:21:39. > :21:43.is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the
:21:44. > :21:46.Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms
:21:47. > :21:54.of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good
:21:55. > :21:57.as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying
:21:58. > :22:02.this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control
:22:03. > :22:06.immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good
:22:07. > :22:11.speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I
:22:12. > :22:13.could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying
:22:14. > :22:21.things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have
:22:22. > :22:24.a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can
:22:25. > :22:29.see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a
:22:30. > :22:32.priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French
:22:33. > :22:38.elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I
:22:39. > :22:40.worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress
:22:41. > :22:47.and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.
:22:48. > :22:52.What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say
:22:53. > :22:55.OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough
:22:56. > :23:01.stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a
:23:02. > :23:05.deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot
:23:06. > :23:11.sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,
:23:12. > :23:15.we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,
:23:16. > :23:20.maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until
:23:21. > :23:24.we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will
:23:25. > :23:27.find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and
:23:28. > :23:32.countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that
:23:33. > :23:37.will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the
:23:38. > :23:40.Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you
:23:41. > :23:44.agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.
:23:45. > :23:49.If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you
:23:50. > :23:54.approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any
:23:55. > :24:00.political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,
:24:01. > :24:03.there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip
:24:04. > :24:08.loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,
:24:09. > :24:13.they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and
:24:14. > :24:17.I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that
:24:18. > :24:20.says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen
:24:21. > :24:25.to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the
:24:26. > :24:30.Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over
:24:31. > :24:35.this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition
:24:36. > :24:39.will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's
:24:40. > :24:43.best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of
:24:44. > :24:50.Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to
:24:51. > :24:59.fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.
:25:00. > :25:03.If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,
:25:04. > :25:07.there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always
:25:08. > :25:13.been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't
:25:14. > :25:18.it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it
:25:19. > :25:23.does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and
:25:24. > :25:25.Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for
:25:26. > :25:26.being with us. It's just gone 11.25,
:25:27. > :25:28.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:25:29. > :25:31.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll
:25:32. > :40:35.be talking to our political panel. Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll
:40:36. > :40:41.air-pollution. Thank you for being here.
:40:42. > :40:45.Welcome back and let's get back to Donald Trump's travel ban
:40:46. > :40:51.on refugees and citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries.
:40:52. > :40:54.Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state
:40:55. > :40:56.visit by President Trump to the UK should not go ahead
:40:57. > :41:09.I think it would be totally wrong for him to be coming here while that
:41:10. > :41:14.situation is going on. He has to be challenged on this. So until the ban
:41:15. > :41:19.is lifted, you don't think he should come? I am not happy about him
:41:20. > :41:23.coming here until the ban is lifted. Look at what is happening with those
:41:24. > :41:28.countries. What will be the long term effect of this on the rest of
:41:29. > :41:34.the world? Is this state visit going to become a matter of huge political
:41:35. > :41:37.debate in this country? It would be anyway, but it is a temporary ban,
:41:38. > :41:41.so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe territory. It will be over by April
:41:42. > :41:46.and he is not due to come until summer. But there are three bands.
:41:47. > :41:51.There is the 90 day ban on people coming from the southern countries.
:41:52. > :41:55.There is the 120 day ban on refugees from anywhere in the world, and
:41:56. > :42:01.there is the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees. So there may still
:42:02. > :42:05.be some bans in place. But bear in mind the number of Syrian refugees
:42:06. > :42:08.and refugees from around the world that President Obama took over his
:42:09. > :42:12.eight years. There were years when it was not even up to 50 Syrian
:42:13. > :42:18.refugees that were taken since the civil war has started. This is an
:42:19. > :42:24.ongoing American policy. 12,500 Syrian refugees have come in the
:42:25. > :42:32.last year. Before that, it was a hundred and sometimes under 50. But
:42:33. > :42:36.they are reasonable numbers now, although not something America
:42:37. > :42:41.couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is discovering that being a president
:42:42. > :42:45.is different from being a business man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn
:42:46. > :42:49.the art of leadership, having been a backbench MP, and has struggled to
:42:50. > :42:53.do it, as we are about to discuss with article 50. With this, you have
:42:54. > :42:58.to dramatise the politics of this, and this is what he has done with
:42:59. > :43:03.that statement. Most controversial ever state visit now? I would
:43:04. > :43:08.imagine so. Even regardless of any opposition from the opposition to
:43:09. > :43:13.trump's physical presence in the streets, the presence of
:43:14. > :43:16.demonstrators will be an international new story. If trump's
:43:17. > :43:20.demands for the details of the visit are quite as extreme and as picky as
:43:21. > :43:24.some of the Sunday papers have suggested, that could also be the
:43:25. > :43:29.source of controversy. What do you have in mind? Isn't he anxious that
:43:30. > :43:33.only certain members of the Royal Family turn up? He doesn't want a
:43:34. > :43:42.one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who would, though! Some people may be
:43:43. > :43:45.sympathetic on that. It is the one subject where he is in line with
:43:46. > :43:51.British opinion. Playing golf in front of the Queen may be a higher
:43:52. > :43:53.priority. We have to be realistic. Given the other people from around
:43:54. > :43:57.the world that the Queen has played host to, like the Chinese president
:43:58. > :44:02.and Saudi kings and the like, we have had a lot worse come to visit
:44:03. > :44:08.than Donald Trump. Brexit - how serious our neighbour's problems on
:44:09. > :44:12.this? Very serious, but they often are with Europe. Labour were splits
:44:13. > :44:18.when we joined in the 70s, and still won general elections, in 1974 and
:44:19. > :44:21.1975. There were all over the place in terms of the single currency.
:44:22. > :44:22.Blair said one thing one day and the opposite the next day. Brown did the
:44:23. > :44:36.same. Brown usually set the opposite of
:44:37. > :44:40.what Blair said! They won landslide because they have the political
:44:41. > :44:42.skills to put all of the pressure on the major government, even though
:44:43. > :44:47.their position on the single currency was the same as major's. It
:44:48. > :44:53.is about with Europe the art of leadership. You have to be a
:44:54. > :44:57.political conjuror, you have to dissemble authoritative leak when
:44:58. > :45:01.you lead a divided party over Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his
:45:02. > :45:06.personal credit cannot dissemble, but he's not an individual person on
:45:07. > :45:11.this. He's leading a split party in danger of falling apart, and you
:45:12. > :45:16.need the skills of a political conjurer. Clearly self-evidently
:45:17. > :45:19.he's not displaying it because we are talking about the chaotic split
:45:20. > :45:23.which will manifest itself in that vote on Article 50. Labour and the
:45:24. > :45:28.SNP and the Lib Dems too I would have thought will all put amendments
:45:29. > :45:35.down to the short Article 50 piece of legislation. Do they have any
:45:36. > :45:38.chance of succeeding? No substantial world is changing amendments. I
:45:39. > :45:43.don't think Theresa May has much to worry about actually. I think if
:45:44. > :45:47.anything the reason she's pushed the legal appeal is that it helps her to
:45:48. > :45:51.have a big chunk of the media and a big chunk of public opinion worrying
:45:52. > :45:57.that the popular will of last year is in danger of being overturned and
:45:58. > :46:02.so even if it was a completely hopeless legal appeal, it generated
:46:03. > :46:05.headlines for a week that as an incumbent Prime Minister trying to
:46:06. > :46:09.execute believe vote suits you politically. I think it is a much
:46:10. > :46:14.bigger problem for Labour, we've already seen some Shadow Cabinet
:46:15. > :46:17.issues in the previous week. You have got to remember it's not just a
:46:18. > :46:24.majority of Labour MPs that want to stay in the European Union, but a
:46:25. > :46:28.majority of Labour constituencies, and a majority of labour macro
:46:29. > :46:32.voters wanted to stay as well so we have three lines of division. One
:46:33. > :46:36.amendment that might get through if it was called, and it is in the
:46:37. > :46:40.hands of the Deputy speaker who will be chairing these debates, and that
:46:41. > :46:44.will be an amendment that said regardless of how the Europeans
:46:45. > :46:49.treat our citizens in Europe, all EU citizens here will be afforded full
:46:50. > :46:57.rights to remain. That might get through. It may indeed and lots of
:46:58. > :47:02.backbench MPs would backpack. We all know there will not be mass
:47:03. > :47:06.deportations, it is not legal, it won't happen, it is simply a
:47:07. > :47:10.negotiating tactic. I agree with those who say you shouldn't be using
:47:11. > :47:15.people as a negotiating tactic, but the reality as it is the EU leaders
:47:16. > :47:19.that are doing that because it's already been offered. The remain as
:47:20. > :47:25.should be attacking the EU governments for not offering that in
:47:26. > :47:28.return. Article 50 is the easy bit for her. I agree with other members
:47:29. > :47:33.of the panel that she will get it through and the court case almost
:47:34. > :47:36.helps her by getting an easy journey through Parliament, then it gets
:47:37. > :47:41.really difficult. All of this has been a preamble and once she begins
:47:42. > :47:46.that nightmarish negotiation, there will be opportunities for a smart
:47:47. > :47:53.opposition to make quite a lot of the turmoil to come. Whether Labour
:47:54. > :47:59.are capable of that, let's wait and see. The divisions in Labour are
:48:00. > :48:03.nightmarish for them but by no means unprecedented. Arguably it was much
:48:04. > :48:09.more complicated in the early 1970s when you had Titans on either side,
:48:10. > :48:17.big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony Benn... Michael Foot, they were all
:48:18. > :48:23.at it. The fundamental issue of in or out, and they won two elections,
:48:24. > :48:28.so you have got to be really clever. But also how money more Labour MPs
:48:29. > :48:30.will resign. We shall find out this week.
:48:31. > :48:34.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday and all
:48:35. > :48:37.I'll be back here on BBC one next week.
:48:38. > :48:43.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.