:00:43. > :00:48.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:49. > :00:49.Theresa May still has plenty on her plate,
:00:50. > :00:51.not least a battle over Brexit in the Lords.
:00:52. > :00:53.But after Thursday's by-election win in Copeland,
:00:54. > :00:55.the Prime Minister looks stronger than ever.
:00:56. > :00:57.Jeremy Corbyn's Labour saw off Ukip in this week's other by-election,
:00:58. > :01:00.but losing to the Tories in a heartland seat leaves the party
:01:01. > :01:10.The leader of Scottish Labour joins me live.
:01:11. > :01:15.You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden!
:01:16. > :01:18.And Donald Trump may have been mocked for talking about the impact
:01:19. > :01:20.of migration on Sweden, but after riots in Stockholm this
:01:21. > :01:28.week, did the US president have the last laugh?
:01:29. > :01:33.In London, will the rise in council tax in all but four local
:01:34. > :01:40.authorities be enough to alleviate the crisis in social care?
:01:41. > :01:43.And joining me for all of that, three journalists who I'm pleased
:01:44. > :01:51.to say have so far not been banned from the White House.
:01:52. > :01:55.I've tried banning them from this show repeatedly,
:01:56. > :01:58.but somehow they just keep getting past BBC security - it's Sam Coates,
:01:59. > :02:08.We have had two crucial by-elections, the results last
:02:09. > :02:13.Thursday night. It's now Sunday morning, where do they believe
:02:14. > :02:17.British politics? I think it leaves British politics looking as if it
:02:18. > :02:21.may go ahead without Ukip is a strong and robust force. It is
:02:22. > :02:27.difficult to see from where we are now how Ukip rebuilds into a
:02:28. > :02:32.credible vote winning operation. I think it looks unprofessional, the
:02:33. > :02:36.campaign they fought in Stoke was clearly winnable because the margin
:02:37. > :02:40.with which Labour held onto that seat was not an impressive one but
:02:41. > :02:44.they put forward arguably the wrong candidate, it was messy and it's
:02:45. > :02:48.hard to see where they go from here, particularly with the money problems
:02:49. > :02:54.they have and even Nigel Farage saying he's fed up of the party. If
:02:55. > :03:01.Isabel is right, if Ukip is no longer a major factor, you look at
:03:02. > :03:05.the state of Labour and the Lib Dems coming from a long way behind
:03:06. > :03:10.despite their local government by-election successes, Tories never
:03:11. > :03:14.more dominant. I think Theresa May is in a fascinating situation. She's
:03:15. > :03:20.the most powerful Prime Minister of modern times for now because she
:03:21. > :03:24.faces no confident, formidable opposition. Unlike Margaret Thatcher
:03:25. > :03:29.who in the 1980s, although she won landslides in the end, often looked
:03:30. > :03:35.like she was in trouble. She was inferred quite often in the build-up
:03:36. > :03:42.to the election. David Owen, Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams. And quite
:03:43. > :03:47.often she was worried. At the moment Theresa May faces no formidable UK
:03:48. > :03:51.opposition. However, she is both strong and fragile because her
:03:52. > :03:55.agenda is Brexit, which I still think many have not got to grips
:03:56. > :04:00.with in terms of how complex and training and difficult it will be
:04:01. > :04:06.for her. Thatcher faced no equivalent to Brexit so she is both
:04:07. > :04:10.strong, formidably strong because of the wider UK political context, and
:04:11. > :04:14.very fragile. It is just when you think you have never been more
:04:15. > :04:19.dominant you are actually at the most dangerous, what can possibly go
:04:20. > :04:22.wrong? I think that the money of her MPs they haven't begun to think
:04:23. > :04:28.through the practicalities of Brexit and she does have a working majority
:04:29. > :04:31.of about 17 in the House of Commons so at any point she could be put
:04:32. > :04:35.under pressure from really opposition these days is done by the
:04:36. > :04:42.two wins inside the Conservative Party, either the 15 Europhiles or
:04:43. > :04:44.the bigger group of about 60 Brexiteers who have continued to
:04:45. > :04:49.operate as a united and disciplined force within the Conservative Party
:04:50. > :04:53.to get their agenda on the table. Either of those wings could be
:04:54. > :04:57.disappointed at any point in the next three and a half years and that
:04:58. > :05:03.would put her under pressure. I wouldn't completely rule out Ukip
:05:04. > :05:07.coming back. The reason Ukip lost in Stoke I think it's because at the
:05:08. > :05:14.moment Theresa May is delivering pretty much everything Ukip figures
:05:15. > :05:16.might want to see. We might find the phrase Brexit means Brexit quite
:05:17. > :05:20.anodyne but I think she is convincing people she will press
:05:21. > :05:26.ahead with their agenda and deliver the leave vote that people buy a
:05:27. > :05:30.slim majority voted for. Should that change, should there be talk of
:05:31. > :05:34.transition periods, shut the migration settlement not make people
:05:35. > :05:38.happy, then I think Ukip risks charging back up the centre ground
:05:39. > :05:43.and causing more problems in future. That could be a two year gap in
:05:44. > :05:46.which Ukip would have to survive. As I said, Ukip is on our agenda for
:05:47. > :05:47.today. Thursday was a big night
:05:48. > :05:49.for political obsessives like us, with not one but two
:05:50. > :05:54.significant by-elections, Ellie braved the wind and rain
:05:55. > :06:02.to bring you this report. The clouds had gathered,
:06:03. > :06:06.the winds blew at gale force. Was a change in the air, or just
:06:07. > :06:11.a weather system called Doris? Voters in Stoke-on-Trent
:06:12. > :06:14.were about to find out. It's here, a sports hall
:06:15. > :06:18.on a Thursday night that the country's media reckon
:06:19. > :06:24.is the true eye of the storm. Would Labour suffer a lightning
:06:25. > :06:26.strike to its very heart, or would the Ukip threat proved
:06:27. > :06:29.to be a damp squib? Everybody seems to think the result
:06:30. > :06:32.in Stoke-on-Trent would be close, just as they did 150-odd miles away
:06:33. > :06:35.in Copeland, where the Tories are counting on stealing another
:06:36. > :06:40.Labour heartland seat. Areas of high pressure in both
:06:41. > :06:48.places, and some strange sights. We knew this wasn't a normal
:06:49. > :06:50.by-election, and to prove it there is the rapper,
:06:51. > :06:52.Professor Green. Chart-toppers aside,
:06:53. > :06:55.winner of Stoke-on-Trent hit parade was announced first,
:06:56. > :06:58.where everyone was so excited the candidates didn't even make it
:06:59. > :07:02.onto the stage for the result. And I do hereby declare
:07:03. > :07:05.that the said Gareth Snell Nigel Farage has said that victory
:07:06. > :07:13.here in Stoke-on-Trent But Ukip's newish leader
:07:14. > :07:20.played down the defeat, insisting his party's
:07:21. > :07:23.time would come. Are you going to stand again
:07:24. > :07:29.as an MP or has this No doubt I will stand again,
:07:30. > :07:32.don't worry about that. The politics of hope beat
:07:33. > :07:41.the politics of fear. I think Ukip are the ones this
:07:42. > :07:44.weekend who have got But a few minutes later,
:07:45. > :07:49.it turned out Labour had Harrison, Trudy Lynn,
:07:50. > :07:53.the Conservative Party That was more than 2,000
:07:54. > :08:04.votes ahead of Labour. What has happened here tonight
:08:05. > :08:09.is a truly historic event. Labour were disappointed,
:08:10. > :08:11.but determined to be optimistic At a point when we're 15 to 18
:08:12. > :08:22.points behind in the polls... The Conservatives within 2000 votes
:08:23. > :08:26.I think is an incredible The morning after the night
:08:27. > :08:31.before, the losing parties were licking their wounds
:08:32. > :08:35.and their lips over breakfast. For years and years,
:08:36. > :08:38.Ukip was Nigel Farage, That has now changed,
:08:39. > :08:45.that era has gone. It's a new era, it is
:08:46. > :08:47.a second age for us. So that needs to be
:08:48. > :08:52.more fully embedded, it needs to be more defined,
:08:53. > :08:55.you know, and that will We have to continue to improve
:08:56. > :09:04.in seats where we have stood. As we have done here,
:09:05. > :09:06.we've improved on our 2015 result, that's what important,
:09:07. > :09:09.is that we are taking steps Can I be the first to come
:09:10. > :09:14.here today to congratulate you on being elected the new MP
:09:15. > :09:16.for Stoke on Trent Central. Jeremy Corbyn has just arrived
:09:17. > :09:20.in Stoke to welcome his newest MP. Not sure he's going to
:09:21. > :09:25.Copeland later though. Earlier in the day, the Labour
:09:26. > :09:28.leader had made clear he'd considered and discounted some
:09:29. > :09:30.theories about the party's Since you found out that you'd lost
:09:31. > :09:36.a seat to a governing party for the first time
:09:37. > :09:40.since the Falklands War, have you at any point this morning
:09:41. > :09:43.looked in the mirror and asked yourself this question -
:09:44. > :09:48.could the problem actually be me? In the end it was the Conservatives
:09:49. > :09:55.who came out on top. No governing party has made
:09:56. > :09:58.a gain at a by-election With the self-styled people's army
:09:59. > :10:04.of Ukip halted in Stoke, and Labour's wash-out
:10:05. > :10:08.here in Copeland... There's little chance of rain
:10:09. > :10:20.on Theresa May's parade. In the wake of that loss in
:10:21. > :10:23.Copeland, the Scottish Labour Party has been meeting for its spring
:10:24. > :10:25.conference in the Yesterday, deputy leader Tom Watson
:10:26. > :10:30.warned delegates that unless Labour took the by-election defeat
:10:31. > :10:32.seriously, the party's devastation in Scotland could be repeated
:10:33. > :10:35.south of the border. Well, I'm joined now
:10:36. > :10:51.by the leader of Scottish Labour, Even after your party had lost
:10:52. > :10:54.Copeland to the Tories and with Labour now trailing 16 points in the
:10:55. > :10:59.UK polls, you claim to have every faith that Jeremy Corbyn would
:11:00. > :11:07.absolutely win the general election. What evidence can you bring to
:11:08. > :11:09.support that? There is no doubt the result in Copeland was disappointing
:11:10. > :11:13.for the Labour Party and I think it's a collective feeling for
:11:14. > :11:16.everyone within the Labour Party and I want to do what I can to turn
:11:17. > :11:20.around the fortunes of our party. That's what I've committed to do
:11:21. > :11:27.while I have been the Scottish Labour leader. This two years ago we
:11:28. > :11:30.were down the mines so to speak in terms of losing the faith of working
:11:31. > :11:34.class communities across the country, but we listened very hard
:11:35. > :11:38.to the message voters are sending and responded to it. That's what I'm
:11:39. > :11:44.committed to doing in Scotland and that's what Jeremy Corbyn is
:11:45. > :11:50.committed to doing UK wide. The latest polls put Labour at 14% in
:11:51. > :11:56.Scotland, the Tories at ten points ahead of you in Scotland, even
:11:57. > :12:01.Theresa May is more popular than Jeremy Corbyn in Scotland. So I will
:12:02. > :12:06.try again - why are you so sure Jeremy Corbyn could win a general
:12:07. > :12:09.election? What I said when you are talking about Scotland is that I'm
:12:10. > :12:14.the leader of the Scottish Labour Party and I take responsibility for
:12:15. > :12:16.our policies here. Voters said very clearly after the Scottish
:12:17. > :12:20.Parliament election that they didn't have a clear enough sense of what we
:12:21. > :12:24.stood for so I have been advocating a very strong anti-austerity
:12:25. > :12:29.platform, coming up with ideas of how we can oppose the cuts and
:12:30. > :12:32.invest in our future. That is something Jeremy Corbyn also
:12:33. > :12:39.supports but I've also made it clear this weekend that we are opposed to
:12:40. > :12:42.a second independence referendum. I want to bring Scotland back together
:12:43. > :12:47.by focusing on the future and that's why I have been speaking about the
:12:48. > :12:50.federal solution for the UK. I know that Jeremy Corbyn shares that
:12:51. > :12:54.ambition because he is backing the plans for a people's Constitutional
:12:55. > :13:02.Convention. Yes, these are difficult times for the Scottish Labour Party
:13:03. > :13:07.and UK family, but I have a plan in place to turn things around. It will
:13:08. > :13:12.take time though. I'm still not sure why you are so sure the Labour party
:13:13. > :13:17.can win but let me come onto your plan. You want a UK wide
:13:18. > :13:23.Constitutional Convention and that lead to a new Federalist settlement.
:13:24. > :13:30.Is it the policy of the Labour Shadow Cabinet in Westminster to
:13:31. > :13:33.carve England into federal regions? What we support at a UK wide level
:13:34. > :13:37.is the people's constitutional convention. I have been careful to
:13:38. > :13:40.prescribe what I think is in the best interests of Scotland but not
:13:41. > :13:46.to dictate to other parts of the UK what is good for them, that's the
:13:47. > :13:50.point of the people's constitutional convention. You heard Tom Watson say
:13:51. > :13:54.there has to be a UK wide conversation about power, who has it
:13:55. > :13:58.and how it is exercised across England. England hasn't been part of
:13:59. > :14:03.this devolution story over the last 20 years, it is something that
:14:04. > :14:08.happened between Scotland and London or Wales and London. No wonder
:14:09. > :14:11.people in England feel disenfranchised from that. What
:14:12. > :14:17.evidence can you bring to show there is any appetite in England for an
:14:18. > :14:21.English federal solution to England, to carve England into federal
:14:22. > :14:25.regions? Have you spoken to John Prescott about this? He might tell
:14:26. > :14:30.you some of the difficulties. There's not even a debate about that
:14:31. > :14:35.here, Kezia Dugdale, it is fantasy. I speak to John Prescott regularly.
:14:36. > :14:39.What there is a debate about is the idea the world is changing so fast
:14:40. > :14:42.that globalisation is taking jobs away from communities in the
:14:43. > :14:47.north-east, that many working class communities feel left behind, that
:14:48. > :14:50.Westminster feels very far away and the politicians within it feel
:14:51. > :14:54.remote in part of the establishment. People are fed up with power being
:14:55. > :14:57.exercised somewhere else, that's where I think federalism comes in
:14:58. > :15:01.because it's about bringing power closer to people and in many ways
:15:02. > :15:10.it's forced on us because of Brexit. We know the United Kingdom is
:15:11. > :15:12.leaving the European Union so we have to talk about the repatriation
:15:13. > :15:15.of those powers from Brussels to Britain. I want many of those powers
:15:16. > :15:18.to go to the Scottish parliament but where should they go in the English
:15:19. > :15:22.context? It is not as things currently stand the policy of the
:15:23. > :15:23.English Labour Party to carve England into federal regions,
:15:24. > :15:32.correct? It is absolutely the policy of the
:15:33. > :15:37.UK Labour Party to support the people's Constitutional convention
:15:38. > :15:41.to examining these questions. I think it is really important. You're
:15:42. > :15:45.promising the Scottish people a federal solution, and you have not
:15:46. > :15:50.even squared your own party for a federal solution in England. That is
:15:51. > :15:54.not true. The UK Labour Party is united on this. I am going to
:15:55. > :15:59.Cardiff next month to meet with Carwyn Jones and various leaders.
:16:00. > :16:03.United on a federal solution? You know as well as I know it is not
:16:04. > :16:07.united on a federal solution. We will have a conversation about power
:16:08. > :16:31.in this country. It is not united on that
:16:32. > :16:35.issue? This is the direction of travel. It is what you heard
:16:36. > :16:37.yesterday from Sadiq Khan, from Tom Watson, when you hear from people
:16:38. > :16:39.like Nick Forbes who lead Newcastle City Council and Labour's Local
:16:40. > :16:41.Government Association. There is an appetite for talking about power.
:16:42. > :16:44.Talking is one thing. We need to have this conversation across the
:16:45. > :16:46.whole of the United Kingdom, to have a reformed United Kingdom. It is a
:16:47. > :16:48.conversation you're offering Scotland, not the policy. Let's come
:16:49. > :16:51.onto the labour made of London. He was in power for your conference. He
:16:52. > :16:53.wrote in the record yesterday, there is no difference between Scottish
:16:54. > :16:57.nationalism and racism. Would you like this opportunity to distance
:16:58. > :17:01.yourself from that absurd claim? I think that Sadiq Khan was very clear
:17:02. > :17:06.yesterday that he was not accusing the SNP of racism. What he was
:17:07. > :17:10.saying clearly is that nationalism by its very nature divides people
:17:11. > :17:15.and communities. That is what I said in my speech yesterday. I am fed up
:17:16. > :17:19.living in a divided and fractured country and society. Our politics is
:17:20. > :17:25.forcing is constantly to pick sides, whether you're a no, leave a remain,
:17:26. > :17:28.it brings out the worst in our politicians and politics. All the
:17:29. > :17:33.consensus we find in the grey areas is lost. That is why am standing
:17:34. > :17:48.under a banner that together we are stronger. We have to come up with
:17:49. > :17:52.ideas and focus on the future. That is why I agree with Sadiq Khan. He
:17:53. > :17:54.said quite clearly in the Daily Record yesterday, and that the last
:17:55. > :17:57.minute he adapted his speech to your conference yesterday, to try and
:17:58. > :17:59.reduce the impact, that there was no difference between Scottish
:18:00. > :18:03.nationalism and racism. Your colleague, and Sarwar, said that
:18:04. > :18:07.even after he had tried to introduce the caveats, all forms of
:18:08. > :18:15.nationalism rely on creating eyes and them. Let's call it for what it
:18:16. > :18:19.is. So you are implying that the Scottish Nationalists are racist.
:18:20. > :18:23.Would you care to distance yourself from that absurd claim? I utterly
:18:24. > :18:29.refute that that is what Sadiq Khan said. I would never suggest that the
:18:30. > :18:34.SNP are an inherently racist party. That does is a disservice. He did
:18:35. > :18:38.not see it. What he did say, however, is that nationalism is
:18:39. > :18:43.divisive. You know that better than anyone. I see your Twitter account.
:18:44. > :18:48.Regularly your attack for the job you do as a journalist. Politics in
:18:49. > :18:54.Scotland is divided on. I do not want to revisit that independence
:18:55. > :18:56.question again for that reason. As leader of the Labour Party, I want
:18:57. > :19:03.to bring our country back together, appeal to people who voted yes and
:19:04. > :19:06.no. That banner, together we are stronger, that is where the answers
:19:07. > :19:11.lie in defaulters can be found. If in response to the Mayor of London,
:19:12. > :19:15.your colleague says, let's call it out for what it is, what is he
:19:16. > :19:24.referring to if he is not implying that national symbol is racist? --
:19:25. > :19:28.and that nationalism is racist? He is saying that it leads to divisive
:19:29. > :19:32.politics. The Labour Party has always advocated that together we
:19:33. > :19:36.are stronger. Saying something is divisive is very different from
:19:37. > :19:40.saying something is racist. That is what the Mayor of London said. That
:19:41. > :19:45.is what your colleague was referring to. He did not. You would really
:19:46. > :19:50.struggle to quote that from the Mayor of London. He talked about
:19:51. > :19:57.being divided by race. What does that mean? I think he was very clear
:19:58. > :20:00.that he was talking about divided politics. There is an appetite the
:20:01. > :20:05.length and breadth of the country to end that divisive politics. That is
:20:06. > :20:09.what I stand for, focusing on the future, bringing people back
:20:10. > :20:13.together, concentrating on what the economy might look like in 20 years'
:20:14. > :20:14.time in coming up with ideas to tackle it today. Thank you for
:20:15. > :20:16.joining us. Thursday's win for Labour
:20:17. > :20:18.in Stoke-on-Trent Central gave some relief to Jeremy Corbyn,
:20:19. > :20:20.but for Ukip leader and defeated Stoke candidate Paul Nuttall
:20:21. > :20:23.there were no consolation prizes. I'm joined now by Mr Nuttall's
:20:24. > :20:33.principal political Welcome to the programme. Good
:20:34. > :20:37.morning. How long will Paul Nuttall survivors Ukip leader, days, weeks,
:20:38. > :20:43.months? You are in danger of not seeing the wood for the trees. Ukip
:20:44. > :20:47.was formed in 1993 with the express purpose, much mocked, of getting
:20:48. > :20:51.Britain out of the European Union. Under the brilliant leadership of
:20:52. > :20:55.Nigel Farage, we were crucial in forcing a vacuous Prime Minister to
:20:56. > :21:01.make a referendum promise he did not want to give. With our friends in
:21:02. > :21:07.Fort leave and other organisations. Mac we know that. Get to the answer.
:21:08. > :21:12.We helped to win that referendum. The iteration of Ukip at the moment
:21:13. > :21:17.that we're in, the primary purpose, we are the guard dog of Brexit.
:21:18. > :21:22.Viewed through that prism, the Stoke by-election was a brilliant success.
:21:23. > :21:27.A brilliant success? We had the Tory candidate that had pumped out
:21:28. > :21:31.publicity for Remain, for Cameron Bradley, preaching the gospel of
:21:32. > :21:36.Brexit. We had a Labour candidate and we know what he really felt
:21:37. > :21:38.about Brexit, preaching the Gospel according to Brexit. You lost. Well
:21:39. > :21:55.the by-election was going on, we had the Labour Party in the House of
:21:56. > :21:57.Commons pass the idea of trickling Article 50 by a landslide. Are
:21:58. > :21:59.passionate thing, the thing that 35,000 Ukip members care about the
:22:00. > :22:02.most, it is an extraordinary achievement. I am very proud. What
:22:03. > :22:04.would you have described as victory as? If we could have got Paul
:22:05. > :22:08.Nuttall into the House of Commons, that would have been a fantastic
:22:09. > :22:14.cherry on the top. Losing was an extraordinary achievement? Many Ukip
:22:15. > :22:20.supporters the Stoke was winnable, but Paul Nuttall's campaign was
:22:21. > :22:27.marred by controversy, Tory voters refuse to vote tactically for Ukip
:22:28. > :22:31.to beat Labour, his campaign, Mr Nuttall is to blame for not winning
:22:32. > :22:35.what was a winnable seat? I do not see that at all. This is
:22:36. > :22:40.counterintuitive, but Jeremy Corbyn did do one thing that made it more
:22:41. > :22:45.difficult for us to win. Fantasy. That was to take Labour into a
:22:46. > :22:51.Brexit position formerly. Just over 50 Labour MPs had voted against
:22:52. > :22:54.triggering Article 50. In political terms, we have intimidated the
:22:55. > :22:57.Labour Party into backing Brexit. How much good is it doing you? It
:22:58. > :23:14.comes to the heart of the problem your party faces.
:23:15. > :23:16.You're struggling to win Tory Eurosceptic voters. For the moment,
:23:17. > :23:18.they seem happy with Theresa May. Stoke shows you're not winning
:23:19. > :23:20.Labour Brexit voters either. If you cannot get the solution Tolisso
:23:21. > :23:23.labour, where does your Broad come from? In terms of the by-election,
:23:24. > :23:26.it came very early for Paul. I'm talking about the future. We have a
:23:27. > :23:30.future agenda, and ideological argument with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour
:23:31. > :23:35.Party, which is wedded to the notion of global citizenship and does not
:23:36. > :23:39.recognise the nation state. We know he spent Christmas sitting around
:23:40. > :23:43.campfires with Mexican Marxist dreaming of global government. We
:23:44. > :23:46.believe in the nation state. We believe that the patriotic working
:23:47. > :23:52.class vote will be receptive to that. Your Broad went down by 9% in
:23:53. > :23:57.Cortland. In Copeland we were squeezed. In Stoke, we were unable
:23:58. > :24:03.to squeeze the Tories, who are on a high. Our agenda is that social
:24:04. > :24:07.solidarity is important but we arrange it in this country by nation
:24:08. > :24:12.and community. We want an immigration system that is not only
:24:13. > :24:16.reducing... We know what you want. I do not think people do. You had a
:24:17. > :24:21.whole by-election to tell people and they did not vote for you and. When
:24:22. > :24:26.Nigel Farage said it was fundamental that you were winner in Stoke, he
:24:27. > :24:34.was wrong? Nigel chooses his own words. I would not rewrite them. It
:24:35. > :24:37.would be a massive advantage to Ukip to have a leader in the House of
:24:38. > :24:40.Commons in time to reply to the budget, Prime Minister's questions
:24:41. > :24:43.and all of that. But we have taken the strategic view that we will
:24:44. > :24:48.fight the Labour Party for the working class vote. It is also true
:24:49. > :24:52.that the Conservatives will make a pitch for the working class vote
:24:53. > :24:56.might as well. All three parties have certain advantages and
:24:57. > :25:01.disadvantages. As part of that page, Nigel Farage said that your leader,
:25:02. > :25:06.Paul Nuttall, should have taken a clear, by which I assume he meant
:25:07. > :25:11.tough, line on immigration. Do you agree? He took a tough line on
:25:12. > :25:15.immigration. He developed that idea at our party conference in the
:25:16. > :25:19.spring. Nigel Farage did not think so? Nigel Farage made his speech
:25:20. > :25:25.before Paul Nuttall made his speech. He said this in the aftermath of the
:25:26. > :25:32.result. Once we have freedom to control and Borders, Paul wants to
:25:33. > :25:35.set up an immigration system that includes an aptitude test, do you
:25:36. > :25:41.have skills that the British economy needs, but also, and attitudes test,
:25:42. > :25:46.do you subscribe to core British values such as gender equality and
:25:47. > :25:50.freedom of expression? We will be making these arguments. It is
:25:51. > :25:54.certainly true that Paul's campaign was thrown off course by,
:25:55. > :26:00.particularly something that we knew the Labour Party had been preparing
:26:01. > :26:03.to run, the smear on the untruths, the implications about Hillsborough.
:26:04. > :26:09.If you knew you should have anticipated it. Alan Banks, he helps
:26:10. > :26:14.to bankroll your party, he said that Mr Nuttall needs to toss out the
:26:15. > :26:17.Tory cabal in Europe, by which he means Douglas Carswell, Neil
:26:18. > :26:23.Hamilton. Should they be stripped of their membership? Of course not. As
:26:24. > :26:26.far as I knew, Alan Banks was a member of the Conservative Party
:26:27. > :26:31.formally. I do not know who this Tory cabal is supposed to be. He
:26:32. > :26:35.says that your party is more like a jumble sale than a political party.
:26:36. > :26:41.He says that the party should make him chairman or they will work. What
:26:42. > :26:44.do you see to that? He has made that statement several times over many
:26:45. > :26:49.months, including if you do not throw out your only MP. Douglas
:26:50. > :26:53.Carswell has managed to win twice under Ukip colours. Should Tibi
:26:54. > :27:00.chairman? I think we have an excellent young chairman at the
:27:01. > :27:05.moment. He is doing a good job. The idea that Leave.EU was as smooth
:27:06. > :27:08.running brilliant machine, that does not sit with the facts as I
:27:09. > :27:12.understand them. Suzanne Evans says it would be no great loss for Ukip
:27:13. > :27:18.if Mr Banks walked out, severed his ties and took his money elsewhere.
:27:19. > :27:21.Is she right. I am always happy people who want to give money and
:27:22. > :27:26.support your party want to stay in the party. The best donors donate
:27:27. > :27:30.and do not seek to dictate. If they are experts in certain fields,
:27:31. > :27:33.people should listen to their views but to have a daughter telling the
:27:34. > :27:39.party leader who should be party chairman, that is a nonstarter. You
:27:40. > :27:44.have described your existing party chairman is excellent. He said it
:27:45. > :27:49.could be 20 years before Ukip wins by-election. Is he being too
:27:50. > :27:53.optimistic? There is a general election coming up in the years'
:27:54. > :27:58.time. We will be aiming to win seats in that. Before that, we will be the
:27:59. > :28:03.guard dog for Brexit, to make sure this extraordinary achievement of a
:28:04. > :28:07.little party... You are guard dog without a kennel, you cannot get
:28:08. > :28:11.seat? We're keeping the big establishment parties to do the will
:28:12. > :28:15.of the people. If we achieve nothing else at all, that will be a
:28:16. > :28:17.magnificent achievement. Thank you very much.
:28:18. > :28:18.Sweden isn't somewhere we talk about often
:28:19. > :28:22.should because this week it was pulled into
:28:23. > :28:22.the global spotlight, thanks
:28:23. > :28:32.Last weekend, Mr Trump was mocked for referring to an incident that
:28:33. > :28:35.had occurred last night in Sweden as a result of the country's open
:28:36. > :28:39.Critics were quick to point out that no such incident had occurred
:28:40. > :28:41.and Mr Trump later clarified on Twitter and he was talking
:28:42. > :28:45.about a report he had watched on Fox News.
:28:46. > :28:47.But as if to prove he was onto something,
:28:48. > :28:50.next day a riot broke out in a Stockholm suburb
:28:51. > :28:52.with a large migrant population, following unrest in such areas
:28:53. > :29:02.So what has been Sweden's experience of migration?
:29:03. > :29:04.In 2015, a record 162,000 people claimed asylum there, the second
:29:05. > :29:11.That number dropped to 29,000 in 2016 after the country introduced
:29:12. > :29:13.border restrictions and stopped offering permanent
:29:14. > :29:21.Tensions have risen, along with claims of links to crime,
:29:22. > :29:23.although official statistics do not provide evidence of a refugee driven
:29:24. > :29:32.Nigel Farage defended Mr Trump, claiming this week that migrants
:29:33. > :29:35.have led to a dramatic rise in sexual offences.
:29:36. > :29:37.Although the country does have the highest reported
:29:38. > :29:39.rate of rape in Europe, Swedish authorities say recent rises
:29:40. > :29:45.were due to changes to how rape and sex crimes are recorded.
:29:46. > :29:47.Aside from the issue of crime, Sweden has struggled
:29:48. > :29:52.Levels of inequality between natives and migrants when it comes
:29:53. > :29:56.Unemployment rates are three times higher for foreign-born workers
:29:57. > :30:08.We're joined now by Laila Naraghi, she's a Swedish MP from the
:30:09. > :30:11.governing Social Democratic Party, and by the author and
:30:12. > :30:26.The Swedish political establishment was outraged by Mr Trump's remarks,
:30:27. > :30:31.pointing to a riot that hadn't taken place, then a few nights later
:30:32. > :30:35.serious riots did break out in a largely migrant suburb of Stockholm
:30:36. > :30:40.so he wasn't far out, was he? I think he was far out because he is
:30:41. > :30:45.misleading the public with how he uses these statistics. I think it is
:30:46. > :30:49.important to remember that the violence has decreased in Sweden for
:30:50. > :30:53.the past 20 years and research shows there is no evidence that indicate
:30:54. > :31:01.that immigration leads to crime and so I think it is far out. The social
:31:02. > :31:05.unrest in these different areas is not because of their ethical
:31:06. > :31:11.backgrounds of these people living there but more about social economic
:31:12. > :31:15.reasons. OK, no evidence migrants are responsible for any kind of
:31:16. > :31:23.crime? This story reminds me after what happened to the Charlie Hebdo
:31:24. > :31:28.attacks in Paris when also a Fox News commentator said something that
:31:29. > :31:32.was outlandish about Paris and the Mayor of Paris threatened to sue Fox
:31:33. > :31:36.News, saying you are making our city look bad. It's a bit like that
:31:37. > :31:41.because the truth on this lies between Donald Trump on the Swedish
:31:42. > :31:47.authorities on this. Sweden and Swedish government is very reluctant
:31:48. > :31:50.to admit any downsides of its own migration policy and particularly
:31:51. > :31:56.the migration it hard in 2015 but there are very obvious downsides
:31:57. > :32:02.because Sweden is not a country that needs a non-skilled labour force
:32:03. > :32:07.which doesn't speak Swedish. What was raised as the matter of
:32:08. > :32:11.evidence, what is the evidence? First of all if I can say so the
:32:12. > :32:14.rape statistics in Sweden that have been cited are familiar with the
:32:15. > :32:19.rape statistics across other countries that have seen similar
:32:20. > :32:23.forms of migration. Danish authorities and the Norwegian
:32:24. > :32:28.authorities have recorded a similar thing. It is not done by ethnicity
:32:29. > :32:34.so we don't know. And this is part of the problem. It is again a lot of
:32:35. > :32:40.lies and rumours going about. When it is about for example rape, it is
:32:41. > :32:45.difficult to compare the statistics because in Sweden for example many
:32:46. > :32:50.crimes that in other countries are labelled as bodily harm or assault
:32:51. > :32:55.are in Sweden labelled as rape. Also how it is counted because if a woman
:32:56. > :33:03.goes to the police and reports that her husband or boyfriend has raped
:33:04. > :33:08.her, and done it every night for one year, in Sweden that is counted as
:33:09. > :33:13.365 offences. Something is going wrong, I look at the recent news
:33:14. > :33:16.from Sweden. Six Afghan child refugees committed suicide in the
:33:17. > :33:22.last six months, unemployment among recent migrants now five times
:33:23. > :33:28.higher than among non-migrants. We have seen gang violence in Malmo
:33:29. > :33:32.where a British child was killed by a grenade, rioting in Stockholm.
:33:33. > :33:36.Police in Sweden say there are 53 areas of the country where it is now
:33:37. > :33:43.dangerous to patrol. Something has gone wrong. Let me get back to what
:33:44. > :33:48.I think is the core of this debate if I may and that is the right for
:33:49. > :33:52.people fleeing war and political persecution to seek asylum, that is
:33:53. > :33:57.a human right. In Sweden we don't think we can do everything, but we
:33:58. > :34:01.want to live up to our obligation, every country has an obligation to
:34:02. > :34:06.receive asylum seekers. But you have changed your policy on that because
:34:07. > :34:10.having taken 163,001 year alone, you have then closed your borders, I
:34:11. > :34:16.think very wisely, closed the border which means 10,000 people per day at
:34:17. > :34:20.one point were walking from Denmark in to Malmo, you rightly changed
:34:21. > :34:24.that so he realised whatever ones aspirations in terms of asylum, it
:34:25. > :34:31.sometimes meets reality and Sweden is meeting the reality of this.
:34:32. > :34:34.Let's respond to that. We are not naive, we know we cannot do
:34:35. > :34:38.everything but we want to try to do our share as we think other
:34:39. > :34:42.countries also need to do their share. But let me say that, if you
:34:43. > :34:45.look at what the World Economic Forum is saying about our country
:34:46. > :34:50.they show we are in the top of many rankings, the best country to live
:34:51. > :34:58.in, to age in, to have children in, to start into -- to start
:34:59. > :35:05.enterprise. Why have you not been so good at integrating migrants? The
:35:06. > :35:09.unemployment rate is five times higher among migrants than
:35:10. > :35:14.non-migrants and that's the highest ratio of any country in the EU and
:35:15. > :35:19.the OECD, why have you not been able to integrate the people you have
:35:20. > :35:24.brought in for humanitarian reasons? I'm sure there are things we can do
:35:25. > :35:27.much better of course but if you look for example at the immigration
:35:28. > :35:32.that came in the 90s from the Balkans, they are well integrated
:35:33. > :35:34.and contributing to our society. They are starting enterprises and
:35:35. > :35:43.working in different fields of society, and they help our country.
:35:44. > :35:49.Why have they not got jobs, the migrants that have come in? It takes
:35:50. > :35:54.time. In the 90s we managed it and I'm sure we can do it again. Can I
:35:55. > :35:58.put this into some context, it is clear Sweden has got problems as a
:35:59. > :36:03.result of the number of migrants that come in, whether it is as bad
:36:04. > :36:06.as Mr Trump and others make out is another matter, but perhaps I can
:36:07. > :36:11.put it into context. Malmo, which has been at the centre of many of
:36:12. > :36:18.these migrant problems, its homicide rate is three per hundred thousand.
:36:19. > :36:24.Chicago, 28 per 100,000. It may have problems but they are not huge. No,
:36:25. > :36:29.they are pretty huge and I think they will grow. The Balkan refugees
:36:30. > :36:33.into Sweden in the 90s did bring a lot of problems and Sweden did for
:36:34. > :36:37.the first time see serious ethnic gang rivalries. There was an upsurge
:36:38. > :36:43.in gang-related violence that has gone on since. The situation in
:36:44. > :36:47.Malmo in particular is exaggerated by some people, there's no doubt
:36:48. > :36:50.about that, I have been there many times and it is undoubtedly
:36:51. > :36:56.exaggerated by some, it is also vastly unpersuaded by the Swedish
:36:57. > :37:06.authorities. -- understated. In 2010, one in ten Jews in Malmo
:37:07. > :37:16.registered some form of attack on them. It got so bad that in 2010
:37:17. > :37:20.people offered to escort Jews... You have had a good say and I have got
:37:21. > :37:26.to be fair here, what do you say to that, Laila Naraghi? There are
:37:27. > :37:30.people trying to frame our country in a certain way to push their own
:37:31. > :37:37.agenda. I regret that President Trump is trying to slander our
:37:38. > :37:40.country. But what about the specific point on Malmo? If you speak to
:37:41. > :37:45.people in Malmo and also to different congregations, they say
:37:46. > :37:49.they are working together with the authorities to improve this. I say
:37:50. > :37:54.again, there are a lot of people trying to spread rumours and lies.
:37:55. > :37:59.Your situation is very like the situation we had in Britain when we
:38:00. > :38:03.have these situations in Rotherham and elsewhere. 1400 girls were raped
:38:04. > :38:08.in Rotherham before police even admitted it was going on. That
:38:09. > :38:11.happened in Britain in the last decade, a similar phenomenon. An
:38:12. > :38:15.upsurge in particularly sexual and other forms of violence and then
:38:16. > :38:20.total denial by an entire political class is now something that is
:38:21. > :38:23.happening in Sweden. I see it in Swedish authorities and the denial
:38:24. > :38:28.that comes up and the desire to laugh and dismiss Trump but he's not
:38:29. > :38:35.answer nothing and that's a painful thing for any society to want to
:38:36. > :38:42.admit to. There are number of Swedes who think the establishment is
:38:43. > :38:47.covering up the true statistics, that you don't break crime down by
:38:48. > :38:52.ethnic crimes, people are suspicious of the centre-left and centre-right
:38:53. > :38:56.parties now in Sweden. There is no denial and no cover-up. This is what
:38:57. > :39:00.I'm speaking about when I say people are trying to frame it in a certain
:39:01. > :39:04.way. The social unrest is not because of the ethnical background
:39:05. > :39:08.of the people living there but rather because of different
:39:09. > :39:13.socioeconomics conditions. There is no research that shows
:39:14. > :39:16.immigration... But you don't do the research into it. Swedish
:39:17. > :39:20.authorities deliberately ensure you cannot carry out such research and
:39:21. > :39:24.after the attacks in Cologne in 2015 it was the first time then that the
:39:25. > :39:28.Swedish authorities and press admitted that similar sexual
:39:29. > :39:35.molestation have been going on for years in Sweden. Is it right to
:39:36. > :39:40.think, given the problem is maybe not as bad as many people make out
:39:41. > :39:45.but clearly problems, given these problems, is the age of mass asylum
:39:46. > :39:50.seeking for Sweden over? You have cut the numbers by 80% coming in
:39:51. > :39:54.last year compared with 2015, is it over while you concentrate on
:39:55. > :39:59.getting right the people that you have there already? We want to do
:40:00. > :40:02.our share, we have done a lot and now we are concentrating of course
:40:03. > :40:15.on integration and making sure people get a job, and also
:40:16. > :40:19.on big welfare investments because it's important to remember that for
:40:20. > :40:21.eight years Sweden were governed by a government that prioritised big
:40:22. > :40:25.tax cuts instead of investment in welfare. It may just not work. I am
:40:26. > :40:26.grateful to you both, we have to leave it there.
:40:27. > :40:28.It's coming up to 11:40am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:40:29. > :40:31.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:40:32. > :40:36.the Week Ahead, when we'll be asking if the Government is facing defeat
:40:37. > :03:59.Welcome back. Article 50, which triggers the beginning of Britain
:04:00. > :04:03.leaving the European Union and start negotiations, is winding its way
:04:04. > :04:07.through the Lords in this coming week. Tarzan has made an
:04:08. > :04:14.intervention, let's just see the headline from the Mail on Sunday.
:04:15. > :04:18.Lord Heseltine, Michael Heseltine, my fightback starts here, he is
:04:19. > :04:22.going to defy Theresa May. I divide one Prime Minister over the poll
:04:23. > :04:26.tax, I'm ready to defy this one in the Lords over Brexit. There we go,
:04:27. > :04:32.that's going to happen this week. We will see how far he gets. I don't
:04:33. > :04:36.think he will get very far, I don't think Loyalist Tory MPs and
:04:37. > :04:41.Brexiteers are quaking in their boots at the prospect of a rebellion
:04:42. > :04:46.led by Michael Heseltine. I sense that many Tory MPs are already
:04:47. > :04:50.moving on to the next question about Brexit, and the discussion over how
:04:51. > :04:56.much it will cost us to come out. The fact they are already debating
:04:57. > :05:01.that suggests to me they feel things will go fairly smoothly in terms of
:05:02. > :05:06.the legislation. When I spoke to the Labour leader in the Lords last week
:05:07. > :05:09.on the daily politics, she said she was going to push hard for the kind
:05:10. > :05:18.of amendments Lord has all-time is talking about and they would bring
:05:19. > :05:21.that back to the Commons. But if the Commons pinged it back to the Lords
:05:22. > :05:28.with the amendments taken out, she made it clear that was the end of
:05:29. > :05:33.it. Is that right? That's about right. This is probably really a
:05:34. > :05:38.large destruction. There will be to micro issues that come up in the
:05:39. > :05:43.Lords, one is on the future of EU nationals, that could be voted on as
:05:44. > :05:47.soon as this Wednesday, and then the main vote in the Lords on a week on
:05:48. > :05:51.Tuesday, when there is this question of what sort of vote will MPs and
:05:52. > :05:55.peers get at the end of the Brexit process and that is what has
:05:56. > :06:00.all-time is talking about. He wants to make sure there are guarantees in
:06:01. > :06:04.place. The kind of things peers are looking for are pretty moderate and
:06:05. > :06:10.the Government have hinted they could deliver on both of them
:06:11. > :06:14.already. But they are still not prepared... Amber Rudd said they
:06:15. > :06:18.were not prepared... They may say yes we are going to do that but they
:06:19. > :06:23.won't allow whatever that is to be enshrined in the legislation. The
:06:24. > :06:27.question is whether we think this is dancing on the head of a pin. The
:06:28. > :06:30.Government have already promised something in the House of Commons,
:06:31. > :06:35.but will they write it down, I don't think that's the biggest problem in
:06:36. > :06:38.the world. In a sense this is a great magicians trick by Theresa May
:06:39. > :06:45.because it is not the most important thing. The most important thing in
:06:46. > :06:47.Brexit is going on in those committees behind closed doors when
:06:48. > :06:52.they are trying to work out what the next migration system is for Britain
:06:53. > :06:55.and there are some interesting, indeed toxic proposals, but at the
:06:56. > :06:59.moment Downing Street are happy to let us talk about the constitutional
:07:00. > :07:06.propriety of what MPs are doing over the next eight days. It seems to me
:07:07. > :07:10.the irony is that if we had a second chamber that can claim some kind of
:07:11. > :07:15.democratic legitimacy, which the one we have cannot, it would be able to
:07:16. > :07:19.cause the Government more trouble on this, it would be more robust.
:07:20. > :07:27.Absolutely. I saw the interview we did with the Labour Leader of the
:07:28. > :07:32.Lords, they are very conscious, of the fact they are not elected and
:07:33. > :07:36.have limited powers. She was clear to you they would not impede the
:07:37. > :07:40.timetable for triggering Article 50 so we might get a bit of theatre,
:07:41. > :07:46.Michael Heseltine might deliver a brilliant speech. It is interesting
:07:47. > :07:51.that Euroscepticism gun under Margaret Thatcher in the Tory party
:07:52. > :07:55.but two offer senior ministers Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine are the
:07:56. > :07:59.most prominent opponents now but they will change nothing at this
:08:00. > :08:04.point. She will have the space to trigger Article 50 within her
:08:05. > :08:06.timetable. Let's move on. Let me show you a picture tweeted by Nigel
:08:07. > :08:16.Farage. That is Nigel Farage and a small
:08:17. > :08:20.group of people having dinner, and within that small group of people is
:08:21. > :08:25.the president of the United States, and it was taken in the last couple
:08:26. > :08:31.of days. This would suggest that if he can command that amount of the
:08:32. > :08:35.President's time in a small group of people, then he's actually rather
:08:36. > :08:40.close to the president. Make no mistake about it, Nigel Farage is
:08:41. > :08:47.now to and fro Washington more regularly than perhaps he is here.
:08:48. > :08:53.Hopefully that LBC programme is recorded over in the state. He's not
:08:54. > :08:56.only close to the president but to a series of people within the
:08:57. > :09:01.administration. That relationship there is a remarkable one and one to
:09:02. > :09:06.keep an eye on. Will the main government be tempted to tap into
:09:07. > :09:12.that relationship at any time or is it just seething with anger? You can
:09:13. > :09:18.feel a ripple of discontentment over this. We are in the middle of
:09:19. > :09:22.negotiating the state visit and the sort of pomp and circumstance and
:09:23. > :09:26.what kind of greeting Britain should give Donald Trump when he comes over
:09:27. > :09:30.later in the year. There is a great deal of neurotic thought going into
:09:31. > :09:33.what that should look like, but one of the most interesting things about
:09:34. > :09:37.our relationship with Donald Trump is that there is a nervousness among
:09:38. > :09:41.some Cabinet ministers that we are being seen to go too far, too fast
:09:42. > :09:45.with the prospect of a trade deal. Even amongst some Brexiteer cabinet
:09:46. > :09:50.ministers, they worry we won't get a very good trade deal with the US and
:09:51. > :09:54.we are tolerably placing a lot of stalled by it. When we see the kind
:09:55. > :10:03.of deal they want to pitch with us there might be some pulling back and
:10:04. > :10:05.that could be an awkward moment in terms of our relationship, and no
:10:06. > :10:11.doubt Nigel at that term -- at that point will accuse the UK of doing
:10:12. > :10:19.the dirty on Donald Trump. If there was a deal, would they get it
:10:20. > :10:23.through the House of Commons? Nigel Farage is having dinner with the
:10:24. > :10:27.president, not bad as a kind of lifestyle but he's politically
:10:28. > :10:30.rootless, he won't be an MEP much longer so if you look at where is
:10:31. > :10:35.his political base to build on this great time he's having, there is
:10:36. > :10:38.one. Given that there is one I think he's just having a great time and it
:10:39. > :10:48.isn't much more significant than that. No? There's a lot to be said
:10:49. > :10:57.for having a great time. You are having a great time. Let's just
:10:58. > :11:02.look, because of the dominance of the Government we kind of it nor
:11:03. > :11:08.there are problems piling up, only what, ten days with the Budget to
:11:09. > :11:14.go, piling up for Mrs May and her government. The business rates which
:11:15. > :11:17.has alarmed a lot of Tories, this disability cuts which are really a
:11:18. > :11:21.serious problem for the Government, and the desperate need for more
:11:22. > :11:26.money for social care. There are other issues, there are problems
:11:27. > :11:30.there and they involve spending money. Absolutely and some people
:11:31. > :11:34.argue Theresa May has only one Monday and that is to deliver Brexit
:11:35. > :11:41.but it is impossible as a Prime Minister to ignore everything else.
:11:42. > :11:44.And she doesn't want to either. The bubbling issue of social care and
:11:45. > :11:49.the NHS is the biggest single problem for her in the weeks and
:11:50. > :11:52.months ahead, she has got to come up with something. And Mr Hammond will
:11:53. > :11:58.have to loosen his belt a little bit. I think he will in relation to
:11:59. > :12:01.the NHS, he didn't mention it in the Autumn Statement, which was
:12:02. > :12:05.remarkable, and he cannot get away with not mentioning it this time. If
:12:06. > :12:09.he mentions it, it has to be in a positive context in some way or
:12:10. > :12:12.another and it is one example of many. She is both strong because she
:12:13. > :12:17.is so far ahead in the opinion polls, but this in tray is one of
:12:18. > :12:23.the most daunting a Prime Minister has faced in recent times I think.
:12:24. > :12:29.Here is what will happen on Budget day, money will be more money,
:12:30. > :12:35.magically found down the back of the Treasury sofa. The projections are
:12:36. > :12:39.that he has wiggle room of about 12 billion. But look at the bills,
:12:40. > :12:44.rebels involved in business rates suggest the Chancellor will have to
:12:45. > :12:48.throw up ?2 billion at that problem. 3.7 billion is the potential cost of
:12:49. > :12:52.this judgment about disability benefits. The Government will try to
:12:53. > :12:58.find different ways of satisfying it but who knows. It will not popular.
:12:59. > :13:01.I'm not sure they will throw money at the NHS, they want an interim
:13:02. > :13:05.settlement on social care which will alleviate pressure on the NHS but
:13:06. > :13:12.they feel... That's another couple of billion by the way. They feel in
:13:13. > :13:17.the Treasury that the NHS has not delivered on what Simon Stevens
:13:18. > :13:22.promised them. But here is the bigger problem for Philip Hammond,
:13:23. > :13:25.he has two This year and he thinks the second one in the autumn is more
:13:26. > :13:27.important because that is when people will feel the cost living
:13:28. > :13:29.squeeze. The Daily Politics is back at noon
:13:30. > :13:33.on BBC Two tomorrow. We'll be back here at
:13:34. > :13:35.the same time next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:36. > :13:42.it's the Sunday Politics.