:00:38. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,
:00:45. > :00:57.After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.
:00:58. > :00:59.With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,
:01:00. > :01:04.Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.
:01:05. > :01:07.NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission
:01:08. > :01:11.impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,
:01:12. > :01:14.unless hospitals are given more cash this year.
:01:15. > :01:19.The chief executive of NHS Providers joins me live.
:01:20. > :01:22.In London this week, a question of space.
:01:23. > :01:25.How the need for new homes in a congested city is getting
:01:26. > :01:39.All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking
:01:40. > :01:42.to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg
:01:43. > :01:44.from his party's spring conference in York.
:01:45. > :01:49.With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,
:01:50. > :01:50.three of the country's top political commentators:
:01:51. > :01:57.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.
:01:58. > :01:58.They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.
:01:59. > :02:01.So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.
:02:02. > :02:07.As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,
:02:08. > :02:10.the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum
:02:11. > :02:15.on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts
:02:16. > :02:18.to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key
:02:19. > :02:23.budget measure just one week after announcing it.
:02:24. > :02:24.Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week
:02:25. > :02:42.Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First
:02:43. > :02:43.Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.
:02:44. > :02:46.She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK
:02:47. > :02:50.By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's
:02:51. > :02:53.future will be decided, not just by me, the
:02:54. > :02:54.Scottish Government, or the
:02:55. > :02:56.SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.
:02:57. > :03:06.Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject
:03:07. > :03:10.amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to
:03:11. > :03:24.The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned
:03:25. > :03:26.attempts to change it and it becomes law.
:03:27. > :03:32.But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.
:03:33. > :03:35.Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.
:03:36. > :03:51.We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the
:03:52. > :03:53.We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling
:03:54. > :04:04.the planned rise in National Insurance for
:04:05. > :04:06.the self-employed announced the budget.
:04:07. > :04:08.It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.
:04:09. > :04:10.The trend towards greater self-employment does create a
:04:11. > :04:13.We will bring forward further proposals
:04:14. > :04:15.but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this
:04:16. > :04:20.It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.
:04:21. > :04:22.By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues
:04:23. > :04:26.fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax
:04:27. > :04:36.Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the
:04:37. > :04:38.Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending
:04:39. > :04:41.But that's not what the Prime Minister
:04:42. > :04:47.Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a
:04:48. > :04:52.We should be working together, not pulling apart.
:04:53. > :04:54.We should be working together to get that
:04:55. > :04:55.right deal for Scotland, that
:04:56. > :05:00.So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and
:05:01. > :05:04.so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.
:05:05. > :05:06.Friday and time for the faithful to gather.
:05:07. > :05:07.SNP activists at their spring conference
:05:08. > :05:18.Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister
:05:19. > :05:22.promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.
:05:23. > :05:24.At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly
:05:25. > :05:31.I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The
:05:32. > :05:33.Evening Standard and, you know, with so many
:05:34. > :05:34.big issues in our world what
:05:35. > :05:40.good analysis, great news journalism.
:05:41. > :05:45.It's a really important time for good journalism that The
:05:46. > :05:46.Evening Standard is going to provide.
:05:47. > :05:53.There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals
:05:54. > :05:58.Under my proposals we keep the Barnett
:05:59. > :06:02.Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the
:06:03. > :06:07.and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.
:06:08. > :06:09.And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the
:06:10. > :06:27.What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,
:06:28. > :06:31.Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign
:06:32. > :06:34.of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the
:06:35. > :06:42.events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with
:06:43. > :06:46.the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy
:06:47. > :06:51.periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and
:06:52. > :06:56.try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.
:06:57. > :07:00.Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or
:07:01. > :07:03.so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily
:07:04. > :07:08.the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel
:07:09. > :07:11.more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential
:07:12. > :07:15.drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your
:07:16. > :07:20.original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic
:07:21. > :07:24.quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory
:07:25. > :07:28.backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school
:07:29. > :07:32.funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will
:07:33. > :07:36.get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.
:07:37. > :07:41.Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister
:07:42. > :07:46.said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime
:07:47. > :07:50.Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done
:07:51. > :07:55.quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in
:07:56. > :07:58.frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,
:07:59. > :08:02.OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has
:08:03. > :08:05.already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with
:08:06. > :08:09.Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle
:08:10. > :08:14.for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality
:08:15. > :08:18.bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same
:08:19. > :08:21.time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge
:08:22. > :08:27.to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and
:08:28. > :08:34.Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it
:08:35. > :08:40.reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is
:08:41. > :08:43.over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is
:08:44. > :08:46.how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is
:08:47. > :08:49.not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a
:08:50. > :08:54.normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more
:08:55. > :08:59.mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible
:09:00. > :09:02.workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to
:09:03. > :09:07.call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she
:09:08. > :09:11.tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a
:09:12. > :09:15.second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the
:09:16. > :09:18.rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this
:09:19. > :09:23.week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to
:09:24. > :09:27.her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She
:09:28. > :09:31.expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for
:09:32. > :09:37.her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows
:09:38. > :09:43.66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off
:09:44. > :09:47.with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second
:09:48. > :09:50.referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined
:09:51. > :09:53.with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her
:09:54. > :09:58.calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,
:09:59. > :10:02.I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your
:10:03. > :10:06.desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a
:10:07. > :10:10.fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak
:10:11. > :10:15.opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most
:10:16. > :10:20.daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I
:10:21. > :10:23.think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an
:10:24. > :10:26.election. I don't think she has thought about how you would
:10:27. > :10:30.manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the
:10:31. > :10:36.energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning
:10:37. > :10:41.the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the
:10:42. > :10:44.small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.
:10:45. > :10:48.Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be
:10:49. > :10:52.difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of
:10:53. > :10:56.going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't
:10:57. > :11:00.and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which
:11:01. > :11:03.is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as
:11:04. > :11:06.commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but
:11:07. > :11:11.they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in
:11:12. > :11:14.unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because
:11:15. > :11:17.she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through
:11:18. > :11:21.Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an
:11:22. > :11:25.early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write
:11:26. > :11:30.a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's
:11:31. > :11:34.box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.
:11:35. > :11:38.The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may
:11:39. > :11:42.replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an
:11:43. > :11:46.election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself
:11:47. > :11:47.you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall
:11:48. > :11:49.see. So if Theresa May did go
:11:50. > :11:52.for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns
:11:53. > :12:02.and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we
:12:03. > :12:05.have just been talking about, executed one of the most
:12:06. > :12:09.embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a
:12:10. > :12:12.torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still
:12:13. > :12:17.so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an
:12:18. > :12:20.early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing
:12:21. > :12:24.ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that
:12:25. > :12:29.we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only
:12:30. > :12:35.challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative
:12:36. > :12:41.for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,
:12:42. > :12:44.would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't
:12:45. > :12:47.want this government to be in power so of course if there is an
:12:48. > :12:51.opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a
:12:52. > :12:56.better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course
:12:57. > :13:01.we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote
:13:02. > :13:05.in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an
:13:06. > :13:09.opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in
:13:10. > :13:13.government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with
:13:14. > :13:17.the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very
:13:18. > :13:20.seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but
:13:21. > :13:25.would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to
:13:26. > :13:28.be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to
:13:29. > :13:32.bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the
:13:33. > :13:37.British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together
:13:38. > :13:41.Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a
:13:42. > :13:45.General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance
:13:46. > :13:49.of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an
:13:50. > :13:53.early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?
:13:54. > :13:57.It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to
:13:58. > :14:00.dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories
:14:01. > :14:05.in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that
:14:06. > :14:07.opportunity to put that case to the British people.
:14:08. > :14:16.Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all
:14:17. > :14:18.but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?
:14:19. > :14:21.How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of
:14:22. > :14:26.money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the
:14:27. > :14:31.Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it
:14:32. > :14:39.inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to
:14:40. > :14:44.build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We
:14:45. > :14:48.have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are
:14:49. > :14:52.taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian
:14:53. > :14:55.Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the
:14:56. > :14:59.Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the
:15:00. > :15:03.support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the
:15:04. > :15:07.electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready
:15:08. > :15:11.for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got
:15:12. > :15:16.your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the
:15:17. > :15:21.shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if
:15:22. > :15:24.there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these
:15:25. > :15:29.things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its
:15:30. > :15:34.annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates
:15:35. > :15:37.policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last
:15:38. > :15:41.Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a
:15:42. > :15:46.fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much
:15:47. > :15:51.extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going
:15:52. > :15:54.to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.
:15:55. > :15:59.I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We
:16:00. > :16:05.have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out
:16:06. > :16:08.Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there
:16:09. > :16:12.hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war
:16:13. > :16:18.footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,
:16:19. > :16:23.can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under
:16:24. > :16:29.a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.
:16:30. > :16:32.And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an
:16:33. > :16:37.election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th
:16:38. > :16:42.of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't
:16:43. > :16:47.having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy
:16:48. > :16:51.development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think
:16:52. > :16:55.you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll
:16:56. > :17:00.ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the
:17:01. > :17:04.Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in
:17:05. > :17:08.safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long
:17:09. > :17:13.does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the
:17:14. > :17:17.Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour
:17:18. > :17:21.Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party
:17:22. > :17:28.merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in
:17:29. > :17:33.case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be
:17:34. > :17:37.talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation
:17:38. > :17:41.about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually
:17:42. > :17:44.for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting
:17:45. > :17:48.with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the
:17:49. > :17:54.prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,
:17:55. > :17:58.given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its
:17:59. > :18:02.mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be
:18:03. > :18:08.about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17
:18:09. > :18:12.behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as
:18:13. > :18:15.an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you
:18:16. > :18:21.still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?
:18:22. > :18:29.These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was
:18:30. > :18:33.settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.
:18:34. > :18:37.Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it
:18:38. > :18:43.is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it
:18:44. > :18:47.is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will
:18:48. > :18:52.you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future
:18:53. > :19:01.looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,
:19:02. > :19:03.where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit
:19:04. > :19:06.cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make
:19:07. > :19:09.sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to
:19:10. > :19:12.fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to
:19:13. > :19:19.make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour
:19:20. > :19:25.returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.
:19:26. > :19:27.And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring
:19:28. > :19:29.conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.
:19:30. > :19:38.Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps
:19:39. > :19:43.Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In
:19:44. > :19:52.what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not
:19:53. > :19:57.saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim
:19:58. > :20:01.Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware
:20:02. > :20:08.what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was
:20:09. > :20:14.arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound
:20:15. > :20:19.supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as
:20:20. > :20:23.Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so
:20:24. > :20:27.ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,
:20:28. > :20:32.Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more
:20:33. > :20:36.isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach
:20:37. > :20:42.that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans
:20:43. > :20:50.to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,
:20:51. > :20:56.Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,
:20:57. > :21:00.nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In
:21:01. > :21:06.what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has
:21:07. > :21:11.interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote
:21:12. > :21:16.you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over
:21:17. > :21:20.the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have
:21:21. > :21:25.to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was
:21:26. > :21:30.in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not
:21:31. > :21:36.right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we
:21:37. > :21:42.have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald
:21:43. > :21:47.Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different
:21:48. > :21:53.view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not
:21:54. > :21:59.antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not
:22:00. > :22:02.aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the
:22:03. > :22:09.British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by
:22:10. > :22:17.choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing
:22:18. > :22:21.so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self
:22:22. > :22:24.harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the
:22:25. > :22:29.threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so
:22:30. > :22:34.ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view
:22:35. > :22:43.speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not
:22:44. > :22:47.challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs
:22:48. > :22:52.that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring
:22:53. > :22:57.conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long
:22:58. > :23:02.time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a
:23:03. > :23:07.realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards
:23:08. > :23:14.that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a
:23:15. > :23:18.realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want
:23:19. > :23:23.that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the
:23:24. > :23:28.recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People
:23:29. > :23:32.often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election
:23:33. > :23:37.we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we
:23:38. > :23:45.have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in
:23:46. > :23:52.Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way
:23:53. > :24:00.seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted
:24:01. > :24:04.for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling
:24:05. > :24:07.increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party
:24:08. > :24:11.because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable
:24:12. > :24:18.from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk
:24:19. > :24:22.on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite
:24:23. > :24:26.them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across
:24:27. > :24:31.parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster
:24:32. > :24:35.village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,
:24:36. > :24:38.inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people
:24:39. > :24:50.on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the
:24:51. > :24:55.ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence
:24:56. > :24:59.to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be
:25:00. > :25:08.thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we
:25:09. > :25:12.are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the
:25:13. > :25:16.referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated
:25:17. > :25:20.ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something
:25:21. > :25:25.unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can
:25:26. > :25:36.guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the
:25:37. > :25:41.British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work
:25:42. > :25:45.out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she
:25:46. > :25:52.will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new
:25:53. > :25:56.trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of
:25:57. > :26:01.that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there
:26:02. > :26:06.will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use
:26:07. > :26:13.this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling
:26:14. > :26:17.back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or
:26:18. > :26:22.thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were
:26:23. > :26:28.promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this
:26:29. > :26:32.glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the
:26:33. > :26:36.world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of
:26:37. > :26:40.years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to
:26:41. > :26:44.take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of
:26:45. > :26:52.quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always
:26:53. > :26:59.welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is
:27:00. > :27:01.certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you
:27:02. > :27:08.spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or
:27:09. > :27:15.spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper
:27:16. > :27:23.editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's
:27:24. > :27:28.feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law
:27:29. > :27:33.against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will
:27:34. > :27:40.again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also
:27:41. > :27:44.wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in
:27:45. > :27:49.the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his
:27:50. > :27:55.self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on
:27:56. > :27:58.a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you
:27:59. > :28:03.will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.
:28:04. > :28:06.Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been
:28:07. > :28:08.warning the health service needs more money to help it meet
:28:09. > :28:11.But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered
:28:12. > :28:13.no immediate relief, and today the head of
:28:14. > :28:15.the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds
:28:16. > :28:18.of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency
:28:19. > :28:19.care and planned operations, unless the Government
:28:20. > :28:27.Warnings over funding are not exactly new.
:28:28. > :28:30.Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,
:28:31. > :28:35.published his plan for the future of the health service.
:28:36. > :28:38.In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England
:28:39. > :28:41.would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.
:28:42. > :28:43.To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money
:28:44. > :28:47.from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,
:28:48. > :28:50.and that the health service could account for the rest by making
:28:51. > :28:57.The Government says it's given the health service more than what it
:28:58. > :29:00.asked for, and that NHS in England will have received
:29:01. > :29:05.That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair
:29:06. > :29:07.of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more
:29:08. > :29:11.like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget
:29:12. > :29:16.have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.
:29:17. > :29:20.Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished
:29:21. > :29:22.the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts
:29:23. > :29:24.from the Government, the NHS is likely to record
:29:25. > :29:29.Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A
:29:30. > :29:32.departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being
:29:33. > :29:39.This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care
:29:40. > :29:43.but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn
:29:44. > :29:46.that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked
:29:47. > :29:52.And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS
:29:53. > :29:57.Providers in England, Chris Hopson.
:29:58. > :30:04.Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra
:30:05. > :30:09.money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part
:30:10. > :30:12.of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a
:30:13. > :30:18.bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so
:30:19. > :30:21.on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18
:30:22. > :30:24.billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising
:30:25. > :30:28.more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that
:30:29. > :30:33.is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS
:30:34. > :30:38.knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are
:30:39. > :30:44.somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.
:30:45. > :30:52.Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22
:30:53. > :30:57.billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year
:30:58. > :31:03.and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25
:31:04. > :31:07.billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the
:31:08. > :31:11.2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to
:31:12. > :31:16.which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period
:31:17. > :31:20.and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen
:31:21. > :31:26.before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come
:31:27. > :31:30.onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some
:31:31. > :31:34.extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument
:31:35. > :31:39.about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this
:31:40. > :31:43.extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?
:31:44. > :31:48.Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward
:31:49. > :31:52.view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the
:31:53. > :31:55.centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms
:31:56. > :31:59.length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was
:32:00. > :32:03.consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that
:32:04. > :32:09.the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS
:32:10. > :32:13.where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every
:32:14. > :32:16.year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able
:32:17. > :32:22.to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding
:32:23. > :32:26.increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release
:32:27. > :32:32.we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would
:32:33. > :32:38.not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in
:32:39. > :32:41.other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts
:32:42. > :32:46.Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.
:32:47. > :32:53.Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.
:32:54. > :32:56.How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we
:32:57. > :33:00.estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you
:33:01. > :33:05.clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour
:33:06. > :33:09.A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and
:33:10. > :33:14.operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900
:33:15. > :33:19.million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you
:33:20. > :33:23.would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of
:33:24. > :33:27.those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion
:33:28. > :33:32.on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5
:33:33. > :33:35.billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is
:33:36. > :33:40.important we should make an important distinction about the NHS
:33:41. > :33:43.versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour
:33:44. > :33:48.government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return
:33:49. > :33:52.for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,
:33:53. > :33:57.the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery
:33:58. > :34:00.we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would
:34:01. > :34:04.want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for
:34:05. > :34:09.it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest
:34:10. > :34:13.financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going
:34:14. > :34:18.up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand
:34:19. > :34:23.go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I
:34:24. > :34:27.think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going
:34:28. > :34:31.to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I
:34:32. > :34:36.think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS
:34:37. > :34:40.as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have
:34:41. > :34:45.got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36
:34:46. > :34:50.office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to
:34:51. > :34:55.1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know
:34:56. > :35:00.in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the
:35:01. > :35:03.last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement
:35:04. > :35:10.gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25
:35:11. > :35:14.billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But
:35:15. > :35:16.having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where
:35:17. > :35:22.there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it
:35:23. > :35:27.for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its
:35:28. > :35:30.contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as
:35:31. > :35:35.efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for
:35:36. > :35:39.you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise
:35:40. > :35:44.those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would
:35:45. > :35:47.go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a
:35:48. > :35:51.deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the
:35:52. > :35:56.moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release
:35:57. > :36:08.land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts
:36:09. > :36:09.which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous
:36:10. > :36:11.organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.
:36:12. > :36:12.Have you raised that with the government?
:36:13. > :36:24.Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard
:36:25. > :36:29.somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big
:36:30. > :36:33.salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for
:36:34. > :36:36.the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more
:36:37. > :36:40.money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being
:36:41. > :36:45.properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And
:36:46. > :36:53.yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in
:36:54. > :36:55.a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I
:36:56. > :36:58.have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight
:36:59. > :37:01.in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,
:37:02. > :37:04.mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most
:37:05. > :37:09.complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to
:37:10. > :37:12.be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we
:37:13. > :37:16.should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid
:37:17. > :37:21.are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion
:37:22. > :37:28.a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There
:37:29. > :37:32.was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the
:37:33. > :37:36.problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need
:37:37. > :37:39.and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having
:37:40. > :37:44.to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem
:37:45. > :37:50.and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those
:37:51. > :37:54.amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas
:37:55. > :37:59.is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you
:38:00. > :38:02.could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,
:38:03. > :38:07.what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government
:38:08. > :38:12.has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing
:38:13. > :38:16.funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can
:38:17. > :38:21.I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the
:38:22. > :38:27.first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we
:38:28. > :38:32.can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work
:38:33. > :38:36.in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very
:38:37. > :38:39.important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the
:38:40. > :38:43.financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being
:38:44. > :38:47.asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of
:38:48. > :38:48.time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.
:38:49. > :38:50.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:51. > :38:53.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:54. > :02:00.more quickly we need to look at the pricing of these buildings. Thank
:02:01. > :02:04.you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back to you.
:02:05. > :02:07.So, can George Osborne stay on as a member of Parliament
:02:08. > :02:11.Will Conservative backbenchers force a Government re-think
:02:12. > :02:15.And is Theresa May about to cap gas and electricity prices?
:02:16. > :02:24.Whose idea was that first of all? They are all questions for the Week
:02:25. > :02:34.Ahead to. Let's start with the story that is
:02:35. > :02:38.too much fun to miss, on Friday it was announced the former Chancellor
:02:39. > :02:43.would be the new editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper, a
:02:44. > :02:46.position he will take up in mid-May on a salary of ?200,000 for four
:02:47. > :02:50.days a week. But Mr Osborne has said he will not
:02:51. > :02:53.be stepping down as MP for Tatton in Cheshire,
:02:54. > :02:56.a job he's held since 2001, Alongside these duties,
:02:57. > :02:59.he's also chairman of While being committed to one day
:03:00. > :03:05.a week at Black Rock, an American asset management firm -
:03:06. > :03:08.a part-time role that earns him Then he's polishing his academic
:03:09. > :03:13.credentials, as a fellow at the McCain Institute,
:03:14. > :03:15.an American thinktank, And finally as a member
:03:16. > :03:23.of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, he also earns his keep
:03:24. > :03:29.as an after-dinner speaker, banking around ?750,000
:03:30. > :03:41.since last summer. So there you go. Nice little earners
:03:42. > :03:45.if you can get them. The problem, though, is he has put second jobs on
:03:46. > :03:48.the agenda and lots of his fellow MPs are not happy because they have
:03:49. > :03:54.got second jobs but not making that kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs
:03:55. > :03:58.on both sides actually are unhappy about it exactly for those reasons.
:03:59. > :04:03.I find it a very interesting appointment. We have got these
:04:04. > :04:07.people on the centre and centre right of politics who have been used
:04:08. > :04:12.to power since 1997, they have been on the airwaves today, Tony Blair,
:04:13. > :04:16.Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they are all seeking other platforms now
:04:17. > :04:20.because power has moved elsewhere. So Tony Blair is setting up this new
:04:21. > :04:24.foundation, Nick Clegg refused to condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair
:04:25. > :04:30.praised the appointment. They are all searching for new platforms.
:04:31. > :04:34.They might have overestimated the degree to which this will be a huge
:04:35. > :04:40.influential platform. The standard was very pro-Tory at the 2015
:04:41. > :04:44.election but London voted Labour, it was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they
:04:45. > :04:49.elected Sadiq Khan. It might be overestimating the degree to which
:04:50. > :04:53.this is a hugely influential paper. But I can see why it attracts him as
:04:54. > :04:59.a platform when all these platforms have disappeared, eg power and
:05:00. > :05:04.government. All of these people who used to be in power are quietly
:05:05. > :05:08.getting together again, Mr Blair on television this morning, George
:05:09. > :05:13.Osborne not only filling his bank account but now in charge of
:05:14. > :05:17.London's most important newspaper, Nick Clegg out today not saying
:05:18. > :05:24.Brexit was a done deal, waiting to see what happens, even John Major
:05:25. > :05:27.was wheeled out again today in the Mail on Sunday. They are all playing
:05:28. > :05:32.for position. I half expect David Cameron to turn up as features
:05:33. > :05:39.editor on The Evening Standard. Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg,
:05:40. > :05:42.did he not? I do not think this is sustainable for George Osborne, I
:05:43. > :05:46.worked at The Evening Standard and I was there for three years, I know
:05:47. > :05:50.what the hours are like for a humble journalist, never mind the editor.
:05:51. > :05:54.If he thinks he can get at 4am everyday to be in the offices at 5am
:05:55. > :05:58.to oversee the splash, manage everything in the way and edited
:05:59. > :06:03.should he is in cloud cuckoo land. What this says to people is there is
:06:04. > :06:07.a kind of feel of soft corruption about public life here, where you
:06:08. > :06:11.see what you can get away with. He thinks he can brazen this out and
:06:12. > :06:14.maybe he can but what kind of message does that send to people
:06:15. > :06:20.about how seriously people take the role of being an MP? He must have
:06:21. > :06:24.known. He applied for the job. The Russian owner didn't approach him,
:06:25. > :06:29.he approached Lebedev, the proprietor, for it. He must have
:06:30. > :06:33.calculated there would be some kickback. I wonder if he realised
:06:34. > :06:37.there would be quite the kickback there has been. I think that's
:06:38. > :06:42.probably right. This hasn't finished yet, by the way, this will go on and
:06:43. > :06:47.on. How on earth does George Osborne cover the budget in the autumn? Big
:06:48. > :06:51.budget, lots of physical changes and tax rises to deal with the messages
:06:52. > :06:57.out of this week. You can see already, Theresa May budget crashes.
:06:58. > :07:02.It could be worse. She's useless! Or, worse than that, me, brilliant
:07:03. > :07:08.budget, terrible newspaper, I've never buying it again. He has
:07:09. > :07:11.hoisted his own petard. He has not bought it properly through. It's a
:07:12. > :07:18.something interesting about his own future calculations, if he wants to
:07:19. > :07:22.stay on as an MP in 2020 and be Prime Minister as he has or was
:07:23. > :07:25.wanted to be he has got to find a new seat. How do you go into an
:07:26. > :07:30.association and say I should be an MP, I can do it for at least four
:07:31. > :07:33.hours Purdy after editing The Evening Standard, making a big
:07:34. > :07:40.speech and telling Black Rock how to make a big profit. The feature pages
:07:41. > :07:45.have to be approved for the next day and feature pages are aware the
:07:46. > :07:50.editor gets to make their mark. The news is the news. The feature is
:07:51. > :07:53.what concerns you, what he is in your bonnet. That defines the
:07:54. > :08:03.newspaper, doesn't it? It is not over yet. Too much 101 on
:08:04. > :08:06.newspapers. And Haatheq at. School funding, the consultation
:08:07. > :08:14.period ends, it has been a tricky one for the government, some areas
:08:15. > :08:17.losing. I guess we are seeing this through the prism of the National
:08:18. > :08:24.Insurance contributions now, it is a small majority, if Tory MPs are
:08:25. > :08:29.unhappy she may not get her way. Talking to backbench MPs who are
:08:30. > :08:34.unhappy the feeling is it is not going to go ahead in the proposed
:08:35. > :08:39.form that the consultation has been on. No 10 will definitely have to
:08:40. > :08:42.move on this. It is unclear whether they will scrap it completely, or
:08:43. > :08:47.will they bring in something possibly like a base level, floor
:08:48. > :08:52.level pupil funding below which you can't go? You would then still need
:08:53. > :08:56.to find some extra money. So there are no easy solutions on this but
:08:57. > :08:59.what is clear it is not going to go ahead in its current form. Parents
:09:00. > :09:04.have been getting letters across the country in England about what this
:09:05. > :09:08.will mean for teachers and so on in certain schools. It's not just a
:09:09. > :09:12.matter of the education Department, the schools, or the teachers and
:09:13. > :09:17.Tory backbenchers. Parents are being mobilised on this. The point of the
:09:18. > :09:21.new funding formula is to allocate more money to the more
:09:22. > :09:25.disadvantaged. That means schools in the more prosperous suburbs are
:09:26. > :09:29.going to lose money. Budget cuts on schools which are already
:09:30. > :09:34.struggling. It comes down again to be huge problem, the ever smaller
:09:35. > :09:39.fiscal pool, ever greater demands, NHS, social care, education as well,
:09:40. > :09:43.adding to Theresa May and Phillip Hammond's enormous problems. Here is
:09:44. > :09:48.an interesting issue, Steve. There was a labour Leader of the
:09:49. > :09:52.Opposition that once suggested perhaps given these huge energy
:09:53. > :09:56.companies which seemed to be good at passing on energy rises but not so
:09:57. > :10:00.good at cutting energy prices when it falls, that perhaps we should put
:10:01. > :10:04.a cap on them until at least we study how the market goes. This was
:10:05. > :10:09.obviously ludicrous Marxism and quite rightly knocked down by the
:10:10. > :10:14.Conservatives, except that Mrs May is now talking about putting a cap
:10:15. > :10:17.on energy prices. Yes, I think if it wasn't for Brexit we would focus
:10:18. > :10:22.much more on Theresa May's Ed Miliband streak. Whether this
:10:23. > :10:26.translates into policies, let us see. That bit we don't know. That
:10:27. > :10:30.bit we don't know but in terms of argument her speech to the
:10:31. > :10:34.Conservative conference on Friday was about the third or fourth time
:10:35. > :10:39.where she said as part of the speech, let's focus on the good that
:10:40. > :10:44.government can do, including in intervening in markets, exactly in
:10:45. > :10:47.the way that he used to argue. As you say, we await the policy
:10:48. > :10:51.consequences of that. She seems more cautious in terms of policy in
:10:52. > :10:56.fermentation. But in terms of the industrial strategy, in terms of
:10:57. > :11:00.implying intervention in certain markets, there is a kind of
:11:01. > :11:04.Milibandesque streak. And there comes a time when she has to walk
:11:05. > :11:11.the walk as well as talk the talk. They talk a lot about the just about
:11:12. > :11:14.managing, just about managing face rising food bills because of the
:11:15. > :11:20.lower pound and face rising fuel bills because of the rise in oil and
:11:21. > :11:25.in other commodities. One of the two things you could do to help the just
:11:26. > :11:28.about managing is to cut their food bills and the second would be to cut
:11:29. > :11:32.their fuel bills. At some stage she has to do something for them. We
:11:33. > :11:36.don't know what is going to happen to food bills under Brexit, that
:11:37. > :11:40.could become a really serious issue. They could abolish tariffs. There
:11:41. > :11:43.has been a lot of talking the talk and big announcements put out and
:11:44. > :11:45.not following through so I agree with you on that but lots of Tory
:11:46. > :12:00.MPs will have a big problem on this and the principle of
:12:01. > :12:03.continually talking about interfering in markets, whether it's
:12:04. > :12:05.on executive pay, whether it is on energy, at a time when Britain needs
:12:06. > :12:08.to send out this message to the world in their view, in the view of
:12:09. > :12:11.Brexit supporting MPs, that we are open for business and the government
:12:12. > :12:14.is not about poking around and doing this kind of thing. Of course, you
:12:15. > :12:16.could argue there is not a problem in the market for energy, it is a
:12:17. > :12:19.malfunctioning market that doesn't operate like a free market should,
:12:20. > :12:23.so that provides even Adam Smith, the inventor of market economics
:12:24. > :12:26.would have said on that basis you should intervene. I was in Cardiff
:12:27. > :12:30.to listen to Theresa May's latest explanation for doing this. By the
:12:31. > :12:35.way, we've been waiting nine months, this was one of her big ideas. You
:12:36. > :12:39.are right, let's see a bit of the meat, please. My newspaper has been
:12:40. > :12:42.calling for some pretty hefty government action on this for quite
:12:43. > :12:48.some time. For the just about managings? Yes and specifically to
:12:49. > :12:52.sort out an energy market dominated by the big six, which is manifestly
:12:53. > :12:55.ripping people off left, right and centre. Theresa May's argument in
:12:56. > :13:02.Cardiff on Friday morning which, by the way, went down like a proverbial
:13:03. > :13:05.windbreak at the proverbial funeral because Tories... You know what I
:13:06. > :13:08.mean Andrew, the big hand coming into from the state telling
:13:09. > :13:12.businesses what to do. They went very quiet indeed. They were having
:13:13. > :13:17.saving the union and Nato but there was no clapping for that. The point
:13:18. > :13:20.being, this is what she needs to do to prove her assault, to prove those
:13:21. > :13:25.first words on the steps of Downing Street. We await to see the actions
:13:26. > :13:32.taken. On that unusual agreement we will
:13:33. > :13:34.leave it there. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at
:13:35. > :13:36.noon and everyday during the week. And I'll be here on BBC One
:13:37. > :13:39.next Sunday at 11am. Remember, if it's Sunday,
:13:40. > :13:41.it's the Sunday Politics.