:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Theresa May says she has no plans to increase tax levels,
:00:44. > :00:47.but refuses to repeat David Cameron's 2015 manifesto
:00:48. > :00:54.promise ruling out hikes in VAT, national insurance and income tax.
:00:55. > :00:57.The leaders of the EU's 27 member states unanimously
:00:58. > :01:01.agree their negotiating strategy for the upcoming Brexit talks, but
:01:02. > :01:11.And in the last of our series of interviews ahead of Thursday's
:01:12. > :01:14.local elections, I'll be talking to the leader of Plaid Cymru Leanne
:01:15. > :01:20.Wood, and the former leader of the SNP Alex Salmond.
:01:21. > :01:49.They hit an all-time low after coalition government,
:01:50. > :01:49.but are the Lib Dems poised to bounce back,
:01:50. > :01:55.And with me to analyse the week's politics,
:01:56. > :01:56.Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards, Tom Newton-Dunn.
:01:57. > :01:58.They'll be tweeting using the hashtag #bbcsp.
:01:59. > :02:01.So when Theresa May was interviewed just over an hour ago
:02:02. > :02:04.on The Andrew Marr Show, the Prime Minister was asked
:02:05. > :02:05.to confirm that she would repeat David Cameron's 2015 election
:02:06. > :02:08.promise not to raise VAT, national insurance and income tax
:02:09. > :02:12.We have absolutely no plans to increase the level of tax,
:02:13. > :02:16.but I'm also very clear that I don't want to make specific proposals
:02:17. > :02:18.on taxes unless I'm absolutely sure that I can deliver on those.
:02:19. > :02:21.But it is, would be my intention as a Conservative Government
:02:22. > :02:23.and a Conservative Prime Minister, to reduce the taxes
:02:24. > :02:33.The Tories like to have a clear tax message in elections, are they
:02:34. > :02:36.getting into a bit of a mess? That method wasn't clear, but does it
:02:37. > :02:41.mean, saying they have no plans to increase the level of tax? We are
:02:42. > :02:45.clear there will not be a rise in VAT, a lot of commentators will get
:02:46. > :02:51.overexcited about that, but there was no great expectations there
:02:52. > :02:56.would be a rise in VAT. Tempting as it is, because even one percentage
:02:57. > :03:00.point on VAT rate is 4.5 billion for the exchequer so it is tempting but
:03:01. > :03:07.there has been no speculation that would happen. We can see that she
:03:08. > :03:10.clearly wants to reiterate the language about hard-working families
:03:11. > :03:16.but I don't think we are that much the wiser. Even if she does not put
:03:17. > :03:20.up rates, according to projections the overall tax burden, as a
:03:21. > :03:25.percentage of GDP, is rising, will rise in the years ahead. That is why
:03:26. > :03:30.it was an odd phrase, I know she is doing it to be evasive but to say
:03:31. > :03:34.they have no plans to raise the general level of taxation, they do
:03:35. > :03:38.have. We also know they have specific plans because it was in the
:03:39. > :03:45.last budget, they had a tax rise which they had to revise, National
:03:46. > :03:52.Insurance rises, so very wisely in my view they are keeping options
:03:53. > :03:56.open, the 2015 tax-and-spend debate was a fantasy world, totally
:03:57. > :04:02.unrelated to the demands that would follow. They now have the
:04:03. > :04:05.flexibility, one of the arguments you had heard last time was Philip
:04:06. > :04:11.Hammond saying to her, we have to break away from the 2015 manifesto
:04:12. > :04:15.commitment and we can only do it this way, that is one of the better
:04:16. > :04:19.arguments. The Tories like to talk about tax cuts in elections, whether
:04:20. > :04:26.they do it is another matter, but they are not being allowed to talk
:04:27. > :04:30.about tax cuts, they are now on the defensive over whether they will
:04:31. > :04:33.raise taxes. That is not a healthy position for the campaign to be in.
:04:34. > :04:38.If you look at the numbers, quite frankly, if you will not do this at
:04:39. > :04:42.this election with eight 20 point lead over Labour, then when will you
:04:43. > :04:47.take these tough decisions? Reading between the lines of what Theresa
:04:48. > :04:50.May has said all over different broadcasters this morning, income
:04:51. > :04:54.tax will go down for low-income families, such as the threshold rise
:04:55. > :05:01.that microbes that was already factored in. She has had to commit
:05:02. > :05:05.to it again. VAT will be fat, national insurance contributions
:05:06. > :05:10.will go up. Do you think they will go up? I think so, she had plenty of
:05:11. > :05:17.opportunity to rule it out and she didn't. There was a terrible mess
:05:18. > :05:20.with the budget, it is a good tax argument but not a good electoral
:05:21. > :05:25.argument that you are eroding the base so heavily with people moving
:05:26. > :05:28.into self-employment that as you raise national insurance
:05:29. > :05:31.contributions for everybody but the self-employed, it is something the
:05:32. > :05:35.Treasury will have to look at. The other triple lock on pensions, we
:05:36. > :05:40.don't know if they will keep to that either? If they are sensible they
:05:41. > :05:44.will find a form of words to give them flexibility in that area as
:05:45. > :05:49.well. I would say there is no question over that, that has gone.
:05:50. > :05:52.As Mrs May would say, you will have to wait for the manifesto. That is
:05:53. > :05:56.what all the party leaders tell me! Labour have spent the weekend
:05:57. > :05:58.pushing their messages Speaking at a camapign rally
:05:59. > :06:01.in London yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn promised a Labour
:06:02. > :06:09.government would fix what he called People are fed up, fed up with not
:06:10. > :06:14.being able to get somewhere to live, fed up waiting for hospital
:06:15. > :06:19.appointments, fed up with 0-hours contracts, fed up with low pay, fed
:06:20. > :06:23.up with debt, fed up with not being able to get on in their lives
:06:24. > :06:27.because we have a system that is rigged against so many.
:06:28. > :06:29.I've been joined from Newcastle by Labour's elections
:06:30. > :06:30.and campaigns co-ordinator, Ian Lavery.
:06:31. > :06:41.Good morning. To deal with this rigged economy, as Mr Corbyn calls
:06:42. > :06:45.it, the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has a 20 point plan for
:06:46. > :06:49.workers out today. When you add up everything he plans to do to help
:06:50. > :06:54.workers, how much will it cost? The full costings, one thing I need to
:06:55. > :06:59.say at the very beginning, the costings of any policy which we have
:07:00. > :07:04.already ruled out and any policy we will be ruling out in the next few
:07:05. > :07:09.days and weeks will be fully costed in the manifesto and in addition to
:07:10. > :07:14.the fact that it will be fully costed, we will see it in the
:07:15. > :07:19.manifesto how indeed it has been funded, so we are very clear,
:07:20. > :07:22.anything we have seen already, and there are some exciting policy
:07:23. > :07:26.releases and there will be more in the future, anything we are going to
:07:27. > :07:30.do will be fully costed and in the manifesto. You announced a 20 point
:07:31. > :07:35.plan but cannot tell me what the costs will be this morning so at the
:07:36. > :07:39.moment it is a menu without prices? It is not a menu without prices, it
:07:40. > :07:44.is a fantastic opportunity. This 20 point plan is something which will
:07:45. > :07:49.transform the lives of millions of millions of people in the
:07:50. > :07:54.workplace... But what is the cost? It will be welcomed by many people
:07:55. > :07:58.across the UK. The fact the costings have not been released, you will
:07:59. > :08:03.have to be patient, it will be released very clearly, it will
:08:04. > :08:07.identify that in the manifesto. Let me come down to one of the points,
:08:08. > :08:13.the end of the public sector pay freeze. Can you give us any idea how
:08:14. > :08:15.much that will cost? The end of the public sector pay freeze, so
:08:16. > :08:23.important to the future of the Labour Party, it is an massive
:08:24. > :08:28.policy decision. Let me say at this stage, Theresa May, the Prime
:08:29. > :08:31.Minister, this morning, on The Andrew Marr Show, did not have the
:08:32. > :08:37.common decency, courtesy all respect to condone the fact that nurses, the
:08:38. > :08:42.heroes of the NHS, have had a reduction of nearly 14% in their
:08:43. > :08:46.wages since 2010 and are using food banks to feed themselves! Does that
:08:47. > :08:53.not say everything that is wrong with today's society? So can you
:08:54. > :08:57.tell me what it will cost, which is what my question was? What I will
:08:58. > :09:01.say is everything the Labour Party pledges, everything that we come out
:09:02. > :09:05.with, what we will roll out between now and the 8th of June, will be
:09:06. > :09:09.fully costed, people will be very much aware of how much the costings
:09:10. > :09:14.will be, where the funding will come from, when the manifesto is
:09:15. > :09:19.published. What about doubling paternity leave, nu minimum wage,
:09:20. > :09:30.four new bank holidays, any idea what it will
:09:31. > :09:33.cost? These are exciting new proposals and of course today cost
:09:34. > :09:36.money but we are the sixth richest economy in the world. It is about
:09:37. > :09:39.redistribution of the wealth we create. We are seeing growth in the
:09:40. > :09:42.economy, it is how we utilise the finances in the best way we possibly
:09:43. > :09:47.can for a fairer society for the many and not the few. You just can't
:09:48. > :09:53.tell me how much it will cost? That is why I will repeat again that you
:09:54. > :09:57.need to be very patient. Do you know the cost yourself? You are the head
:09:58. > :10:01.of the campaign, do you know the cost of these things yourself? I am
:10:02. > :10:05.very much aware of how much the costings are likely to be, they have
:10:06. > :10:10.been identified, they will be published in the manifesto. You
:10:11. > :10:15.really do understand I would not be releasing today, live on your show,
:10:16. > :10:20.any costings or predictions with regards the manifesto. Why not? You
:10:21. > :10:25.have released the policy, why not the cost? Because there is a fine
:10:26. > :10:29.detail and we will identify it to the general public in the manifesto.
:10:30. > :10:36.We not only explain how much it will cost but we will explain where the
:10:37. > :10:41.funding comes from. Be patient. Will some of the costs be met by
:10:42. > :10:46.increasing taxes? I would think at this point in time there is not any
:10:47. > :10:52.indication to increase basic taxes and again the taxes and spending of
:10:53. > :10:56.the Labour Government with the proposals of the 20 point plan, the
:10:57. > :11:03.issues we have got, housing, the NHS, crime, education will all be
:11:04. > :11:07.identified with the costings in the publication. Can you tell us this
:11:08. > :11:14.morning, we'll tax for most people rise or not to finance this? We in
:11:15. > :11:21.the Labour Party are looking to a fair tax system which will be
:11:22. > :11:27.clearly identified in the manifesto. Mr McDonnell also wants to ban all
:11:28. > :11:33.0-hours contracts. Would that include those who actually like
:11:34. > :11:36.those contracts? There are nearly 1 million, depending on which figured
:11:37. > :11:40.you'd use, there are nearly 1 million people on zero-hours
:11:41. > :11:44.contract and the vast proportion of those want to be able to live a
:11:45. > :11:51.decent life, a secure life, they want to understand whether they will
:11:52. > :11:54.be at work the next day, they're included hours... I understand a lot
:11:55. > :11:58.of people don't like zero-hours contract and your proposal will
:11:59. > :12:04.address that, but there are those, I saw one survey where 65% of people
:12:05. > :12:08.on zero-hours contract like the flexibility it gives them. Will you
:12:09. > :12:12.force them off zero-hours contract or if they like them will they
:12:13. > :12:16.continue with them? We will discuss it with employee is to make sure
:12:17. > :12:20.individuals in the workplace have the right to negotiate hours in that
:12:21. > :12:29.workplace. Guaranteed hours is very, very important. Zero-hour contracts
:12:30. > :12:32.are an instrument in which employers abuse and exploit mainly young
:12:33. > :12:38.people, mainly female people in the workplace. We would be banning
:12:39. > :12:43.zero-hour contract. But there are those, students for example, who
:12:44. > :12:48.like them, would they be forced off zero-hour contracts in your
:12:49. > :12:51.proposal? Our proposal would be banning zero-hour contract and
:12:52. > :12:57.introducing contracts which have set hours in the workplace. You also say
:12:58. > :13:01.no company will be able to bid for a public contract unless the boss
:13:02. > :13:06.earns no more than 20 times the lowest paid, or the average wage,
:13:07. > :13:09.I'm not quite sure which. What would happen if British Aerospace bids to
:13:10. > :13:15.build more joint strike Fighters and the boss is paid more than 20 times?
:13:16. > :13:22.I understand the point you raise but we have an obscene situation in this
:13:23. > :13:27.country, Andrew, in which the bosses at the very top make an absolute
:13:28. > :13:33.fortune... But what would happen then? Who would build joint strike
:13:34. > :13:37.Fighters... The difference in wages between the top earners in the
:13:38. > :13:43.country and the people in the factories, in the workshops,
:13:44. > :13:48.producing the goods, is vast. I understand that is the reason you
:13:49. > :13:52.want a ratio. What I am saying is, what happens if the ratio is
:13:53. > :13:58.greater? Who gets the contract if not British Aerospace? Who else
:13:59. > :14:04.builds the planes? We are going to introduce a wage rate CEO of one to
:14:05. > :14:07.20. -- wage ratio. We want to close the gap between the people at the
:14:08. > :14:11.very top and people who produce the goods. Let me try one more Time, who
:14:12. > :14:19.would build the joint strike fighter? We would look at the issue
:14:20. > :14:23.as it came along but the policy is clear... Can you name a single
:14:24. > :14:30.defence contractor weather boss' salary is less than 20 times average
:14:31. > :14:37.earnings? We are not reducing, we have rolled that out as part of this
:14:38. > :14:43.fantastic plan to transform society to get rid of discrimination, to try
:14:44. > :14:48.and bring together our communities. We will introduce a pay ratio of one
:14:49. > :14:50.to 20. Fair enough, thank you very much.
:14:51. > :14:53.It's a month after the triggering of Article 50, and EU leaders -
:14:54. > :14:56.with the exception of Britain - met in Brussels this weekend
:14:57. > :14:58.to agree their opening negotiating stance, to get the divorce
:14:59. > :15:15.It is inside this psychedelic chamber where Britain's 'Grexit'
:15:16. > :15:20.future will be decided over the next two years, but there is a vast gulf
:15:21. > :15:30.in rhetoric coming from the UK and the EU. With parallel narratives
:15:31. > :15:33.emerging for both sides. There is broad agreement that an orderly
:15:34. > :15:38.withdrawal is in the interests of both sides. But Theresa May's
:15:39. > :15:41.position is that the terms of our future trade deal should be
:15:42. > :15:45.negotiated alongside the terms of our divorce. Meanwhile the EU says
:15:46. > :15:52.the terms of the UK's exit must be decided before any discussion on a
:15:53. > :15:55.future trade deal can begin. But don't forget that divorce
:15:56. > :16:01.settlement. Don't remind me. In Brussels, many think written should
:16:02. > :16:04.pay even more, while in the UK ministers said the divorce bill
:16:05. > :16:09.should be capped at 3 billion. After you. Thank you.
:16:10. > :16:20.For are you looking forward to it? Isn't that divorce bill a bit high?
:16:21. > :16:25.Isn't this about punishing Britain? We are very united, you all seem so
:16:26. > :16:32.surprised but it's a fact. How soon can we get a deal? We have to wait
:16:33. > :16:38.for the elections. It was the decision of Mrs May. It took over an
:16:39. > :16:41.hour for the leaders to make their entrances but once inside it's just
:16:42. > :16:47.a few minutes to agree the negotiating guidelines. They set out
:16:48. > :16:51.three main areas. The first phase of talks on the divorce settlement will
:16:52. > :16:54.deal with the existing financial commitments to the EU, the Northern
:16:55. > :16:58.Ireland border and the rights of EU citizens in the UK. They said a UK
:16:59. > :17:03.trade agreement can be discussed when the first phase of talks
:17:04. > :17:08.reaches significant progress. And that there must be unity in the
:17:09. > :17:14.negotiations, that individual EU members won't negotiate separately
:17:15. > :17:18.with the UK. They are quite good here at negotiating because they are
:17:19. > :17:22.used to it. They set a maximum and then they have to recede a little
:17:23. > :17:28.bit depending on what the other side is prepared to offer. I think there
:17:29. > :17:32.is room for manoeuvre in some issues, but I don't think some of
:17:33. > :17:37.the baseline things will change that much. For example I don't think the
:17:38. > :17:42.European Union will concede on the rights of citizens who are already
:17:43. > :17:48.in the UK. It will be very difficult for them to accept that they will
:17:49. > :17:52.not be any exit bill, and the question of Northern Ireland is very
:17:53. > :17:55.important as well, the hard order question. The baseline things are
:17:56. > :18:00.not going to move that much, then you have room for manoeuvring
:18:01. > :18:04.between. On security, defence and the fight against terrorism, the
:18:05. > :18:09.guidelines said the EU stands ready to work together. And after lunch,
:18:10. > :18:14.friendly signs from some EU leaders as they gave individual press
:18:15. > :18:17.conferences. Paul and said the talks should open doors to new
:18:18. > :18:24.opportunities and even German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who had
:18:25. > :18:26.earlier said some in Britain were deluded about Brexit, softened her
:18:27. > :18:31.tone saying there was no conspiracy against the UK. Unity was the
:18:32. > :18:36.buzzword at this summit and for once everybody seemed to be sticking to
:18:37. > :18:40.the script. That unity is not only amongst the 27 states, it's also
:18:41. > :18:45.among the institutions so many of the divisions we have seen in the
:18:46. > :18:49.past at European level do not exist. That is very important and it's not
:18:50. > :18:53.be unity that is directed somehow against the UK because I think we
:18:54. > :19:06.all want this to be an orderly process and part of that is that the
:19:07. > :19:10.EU side is unified. So although there are no surprises here, what
:19:11. > :19:13.took place in this room was a significant step towards the real
:19:14. > :19:18.Brexit negotiations which will begin soon after the general election in
:19:19. > :19:22.June, said to be the most complex the UK has faced in our lifetimes.
:19:23. > :19:28.Isabel, Steve and Tom are still with me.
:19:29. > :19:36.Isabel, doesn't the British media have to be a bit careful here? We
:19:37. > :19:41.would never take at face value anything a British politician tells
:19:42. > :19:44.us. We would question it, put it in context and wonder if they are
:19:45. > :19:49.bluffing, but we seem to take at face value anything a European
:19:50. > :19:53.politician says about these negotiations. You only have to look
:19:54. > :19:58.at the front page of the Sunday Times today to see that. They quoted
:19:59. > :20:02.at length Juncker, who didn't like the food at the reception and this
:20:03. > :20:07.and that, and I think the mood is very optimistic. The key thing is
:20:08. > :20:12.the EU trade Commissioner has said we will get a free trade deal and a
:20:13. > :20:15.lot of people seem to be wilfully ignoring that incredibly big
:20:16. > :20:21.concession. That is what will happen in their view. Everything that is
:20:22. > :20:26.said at the moment needs a slight rerun over. They are all in
:20:27. > :20:29.negotiating positions, plus we seem to be completely unaware that they
:20:30. > :20:35.all have their own domestic constituencies as well. Angela
:20:36. > :20:38.Merkel has an important election coming up in September,
:20:39. > :20:42.Euroscepticism is quite different from Britain of course, but there's
:20:43. > :20:47.a different kind of euro scepticism in Germany, she has got to deal with
:20:48. > :20:51.that. Of course she has, which is why you are right, nothing should be
:20:52. > :20:56.taken too seriously out of the mouths of British politicians or
:20:57. > :21:01.European politicians until October this year. We have got to wait for
:21:02. > :21:05.the French elections, then German elections, and if you look through
:21:06. > :21:10.this you can see a way forward. There's no trade talks until pay up,
:21:11. > :21:14.but what was actually written was no trade talks until we make
:21:15. > :21:18.significant progress on the money. You can define significant progress
:21:19. > :21:24.in a lot of ways but come December, fireworks over the summer, we all
:21:25. > :21:28.get very excited about it, in these chairs I'm sure, come December
:21:29. > :21:32.things will look a lot smoother. The German elections are at the end of
:21:33. > :21:35.September but I've seen reports in German press, depending how it goes
:21:36. > :21:42.it could take until Christmas before a new coalition government is put
:21:43. > :21:45.together. The Brussels long-standing negotiating tactic of nothing is
:21:46. > :21:50.agreed until everything is agreed, then I guess the British could say
:21:51. > :21:55.we agree a certain sum of money if that's what it takes but that
:21:56. > :22:00.depends on them, what good trade deal we get. If we don't get that,
:22:01. > :22:06.the sum of money is off the table. In that sense, the two are going
:22:07. > :22:10.parallel. However, I wouldn't entirely dismiss what people are
:22:11. > :22:16.saying in their pre-election periods to their own electorates because
:22:17. > :22:19.they have to some extent to deliver subsequently. Of course Angela
:22:20. > :22:23.Merkel is campaigning and electioneering, who wouldn't, she
:22:24. > :22:27.has a tough election to fight, but she is measured and thoughtful and
:22:28. > :22:31.when she says things like some of the British are delusional, that is
:22:32. > :22:39.unusually strong language for her. What was she referring to? I don't
:22:40. > :22:43.know, it wasn't specific. Have the cake and eat it perhaps the
:22:44. > :22:46.sequencing the British don't want. When they thought the British
:22:47. > :22:49.government was going to effectively demand membership of the single
:22:50. > :22:57.market, that's not going to happen now. Unless you sign up to the four
:22:58. > :23:03.pillars, that's the cake and eat it proposition, which they are right in
:23:04. > :23:07.saying Theresa May has made. But everybody has access, even with no
:23:08. > :23:17.deal you have access. The other side of it is I think there will be a
:23:18. > :23:23.united position from them. And so, as somebody pointed out in that
:23:24. > :23:30.report, they are experienced, tough negotiators, so I don't think it
:23:31. > :23:37.will be quite as easy as some think. I spoke to one of those who drew up
:23:38. > :23:40.Article 50 and they said to me they deliberately put this two year
:23:41. > :23:47.timetable in to make it impossible for anybody to think about leaving.
:23:48. > :23:50.This is really tight, this negotiation. Easy, it isn't.
:23:51. > :23:52.This coming Thursday, voters up and down the country
:23:53. > :23:55.will be going to the polls in this year's local elections.
:23:56. > :23:57.Over the past few weeks I've interviewed representatives
:23:58. > :23:58.of the Conservative Party, Labour, the Liberal Democrats,
:23:59. > :24:02.Today it's the turn of Plaid Cymru and the SNP.
:24:03. > :24:04.A little earlier I spoke Alex Salmond, who until 2014
:24:05. > :24:09.I started by asking him why Scots should vote SNP in local elections
:24:10. > :24:11.when the Scottish Government had just cut central Government funding
:24:12. > :24:27.It's actually a funding increase going into Scottish councils this
:24:28. > :24:31.year, and if you look at the funding position for example between
:24:32. > :24:34.Scottish councils and those in England, which are obviously
:24:35. > :24:38.directly related through the Barnett formula, the funding in Scotland has
:24:39. > :24:49.been incomparably better than that in England so there's a whole range
:24:50. > :24:52.of the -- of reasons... What's happening south of the border
:24:53. > :24:56.indicates the protection the Scottish Parliament has been able to
:24:57. > :25:00.put in that helps vital services in Scotland. But there hasn't been a
:25:01. > :25:04.funding increase, the block grant from Westminster to Edinburgh was
:25:05. > :25:12.increased by 1.5% in real terms but the grant to councils was cut by
:25:13. > :25:16.2.6%. It was going to be a cut of 330 million, the Greens got you to
:25:17. > :25:27.reduce it to 170 million but it is still a cut of 2.6%. Your own
:25:28. > :25:31.Aberdeenshire Council has had a cut to 391 million. You have cut the
:25:32. > :25:35.money to councils. Yes, but councils have available to them more
:25:36. > :25:40.resources this year, and as you say the budget increased that further
:25:41. > :25:43.which is why we put forward an excellent local government budget in
:25:44. > :25:49.Aberdeenshire and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3 million off...
:25:50. > :25:54.You asked me about Aberdeenshire, and Aberdeenshire has put forward a
:25:55. > :25:59.budget for investment expansion and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3
:26:00. > :26:02.million off the education budget, and I'm very grateful you have given
:26:03. > :26:08.me the opportunity to make that point. The Government in Edinburgh
:26:09. > :26:15.has cut the money to Aberdeenshire by ?11 million. It is a cut. But
:26:16. > :26:18.there is an investment budget in Aberdeenshire that has been made
:26:19. > :26:24.available by the ability to increase the council tax by 2.5% after a
:26:25. > :26:27.nine-year freeze in Scotland, and that has brought more resources into
:26:28. > :26:31.local government and that's why the butchered in Aberdeenshire has been
:26:32. > :26:36.an investment budget including protection of the education budget
:26:37. > :26:40.in the face of a Tory and liberal attempt to cut bit. You have to
:26:41. > :26:43.compare what is happening in Scotland and England, and there's no
:26:44. > :26:49.doubt Scottish local authorities have been much better funded than
:26:50. > :26:52.those in England over the last few years and that's been the ability of
:26:53. > :26:58.the Scottish Government to protect the services at local level. A good
:26:59. > :27:04.reason for voting SNP. If they have been so well funded, why after a
:27:05. > :27:11.decade of SNP rule do one in five Scottish pupils leave primary school
:27:12. > :27:15.functionally illiterate? You have got to take these things... Nicola
:27:16. > :27:20.Sturgeon has made it a top priority to address these challenges but
:27:21. > :27:24.let's take another statistic. 93% of Scottish kids are now emerging from
:27:25. > :27:32.school to positive destinations, that means to further education,
:27:33. > :27:38.apprenticeships or work. Why are one in five functionally illiterate? You
:27:39. > :27:42.argue one statistic, I'm arguing Scottish education is putting in
:27:43. > :27:47.some substantially good performances like the 93% going on to positive
:27:48. > :27:52.destinations. You can't have a failing education system if you have
:27:53. > :27:56.got that 93%, and incidentally a record low youth unemployment in
:27:57. > :28:00.Scotland without the second lowest unemployment rate in Europe. These
:28:01. > :28:05.pupils are being prepared by the Scottish education system. Let's
:28:06. > :28:09.take the figures in the round on education. It's so important. Under
:28:10. > :28:15.your watch, under your government, the Scottish schools in the most
:28:16. > :28:25.important global comparison have fallen from tenth to 19th in
:28:26. > :28:32.science, and 11 to 24th in maths, that is a record of decline and
:28:33. > :28:38.failure. That is by the OECD and first questions about that, but the
:28:39. > :28:42.OECD has also described Scotland is one of the best educated societies
:28:43. > :28:48.in the world. That was from the school system in previous years gone
:28:49. > :28:54.by. For those who are currently in Scottish schools, you have fallen
:28:55. > :28:57.from 11th to 24th in mathematics. The OECD was commenting on
:28:58. > :29:01.introduction of the new curriculum for excellence in which they have
:29:02. > :29:06.given a resounding thumbs up to it, and that's the same source as the
:29:07. > :29:10.rankings which you are comparing. Nicola Sturgeon has said there are
:29:11. > :29:13.challenges on Scottish education, particularly the access through the
:29:14. > :29:18.education system and the attainment gap but don't tell me it's failing
:29:19. > :29:21.when 55% of our pupils have gone on to higher education. That's one of
:29:22. > :29:28.the most impressive figures in the world. Why have you cut 4000
:29:29. > :29:32.teachers? The pupil numbers in Scotland have been falling over
:29:33. > :29:35.recent years as well and now of course we are increasing the number
:29:36. > :29:40.of people going through teachers training so we can make sure that
:29:41. > :29:45.number increases, but listen, the Scottish Government and Scottish
:29:46. > :29:49.Parliament, as you very well know, are subject to real terms spending
:29:50. > :29:53.cuts over the last few years and all public services have been under
:29:54. > :29:56.pressure. The main reason in terms of teacher numbers has been an
:29:57. > :30:01.attempt on the Scottish Government to protect the teacher pupil ratio,
:30:02. > :30:09.and that will now be enhanced by a further taker -- intake. You
:30:10. > :30:14.promised you would reduce primary class sizes to 18 and instead they
:30:15. > :30:21.are now 23.5 and rising. You broke that promise. You didn't mention
:30:22. > :30:25.where we started from. We have kept the teacher pupil ratio very solid
:30:26. > :30:29.in Scotland and that's been against a range of public expenditure cuts
:30:30. > :30:31.but the new intake of teachers into the new teacher training in Scotland
:30:32. > :30:42.I think will enhance the system. You have spent in the pasty in
:30:43. > :30:46.Hollywood 43 hours on Government time debating independence. How many
:30:47. > :30:52.hours have you debated education on Government time? I don't have that
:30:53. > :30:55.they get a hand... The answer is zero, you have spent zero-hours
:30:56. > :31:01.debating education on Government time. Isn't it time the SNP got back
:31:02. > :31:06.to concentrating on the day job? Andrew, as you very well know Nicola
:31:07. > :31:09.Sturgeon has identified a key priority, closing the attainment gap
:31:10. > :31:14.in Scottish education. That is exactly what she has done. Let me
:31:15. > :31:20.answer the question, it is difficult to be in a remote location, if you
:31:21. > :31:26.talk before I answer the question then the view was will not be able
:31:27. > :31:31.to listen. I let you answer that without saying a word. Is this
:31:32. > :31:35.general election about independence, as you say it is, or not about
:31:36. > :31:41.independence, as Mrs Sturgeon says it is? No, I have said exactly the
:31:42. > :31:45.same as Nicola Sturgeon on that. The issue what independence will be
:31:46. > :31:50.decided in a national referendum of the Scottish people. The mandate for
:31:51. > :31:54.that referendum was gained in last year's Scottish elections. What this
:31:55. > :31:57.election is about is backing the right of the Scottish parliament to
:31:58. > :32:00.exercise that mandate and also providing real opposition to this
:32:01. > :32:05.Tory Government and allowing the Scottish Parliament to reverse
:32:06. > :32:09.austerity and some of the public expenditure cutbacks you have been
:32:10. > :32:10.talking about, that is what this is about, backing our Scottish
:32:11. > :32:12.Parliament. Alex Salmond, speaking
:32:13. > :32:14.to me earlier. I'm now joined by the leader
:32:15. > :32:21.of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. You accuse the Government of wanting
:32:22. > :32:25.an extreme Brexit, those are your words. What is the difference
:32:26. > :32:29.between hard Brexit and extreme Brexit? My concern is the way in
:32:30. > :32:33.which we leave the European Union could be very damaging to Wales if,
:32:34. > :32:37.for example, there are tariffs introduced then that would have a
:32:38. > :32:44.real impact in terms of Welsh jobs, and I want to make sure that we have
:32:45. > :32:48.a Brexit that doesn't cause the damage to Wales that could be
:32:49. > :32:53.caused. But what is the difference between extreme and hard? Anything
:32:54. > :32:57.that puts Welsh jobs at risk is either extreme or hard and
:32:58. > :33:01.unacceptable to Plaid Cymru, and we will do what we can to protect those
:33:02. > :33:05.jobs. You want Wales to remain a member of the single market even if
:33:06. > :33:10.the UK isn't, which would mean Wales having to accept the free movement
:33:11. > :33:21.of people, still being under the jurisdiction of the European Court,
:33:22. > :33:24.and you also want to stay in the customs union which means you could
:33:25. > :33:26.not do your own free trade deals. What is the difference between that
:33:27. > :33:29.and being a member of the European Union? We would be like Norway,
:33:30. > :33:31.outside the European Union and inside the single market. The key
:33:32. > :33:36.question is the issue of jobs and the ability to continue to trade.
:33:37. > :33:40.Wales exports, we are the biggest exporter in the whole of the UK, so
:33:41. > :33:48.there are many jobs reliant upon those goods being able to be sold to
:33:49. > :33:54.the single market. Is it central to the UK? Out of the four countries
:33:55. > :34:01.that make up the UK... Proportionally, yes. If you remain
:34:02. > :34:06.in the single market, it is hard to see how Wales could stay in the
:34:07. > :34:10.single market if the UK -- when the rest of the UK was not, you cite
:34:11. > :34:15.Norway, that has free movement, it has to be said, it effectively have
:34:16. > :34:19.to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court, it is not in the
:34:20. > :34:28.customs union so it can do some of its own free trade deals, but the
:34:29. > :34:32.Welsh people voted to leave. We have to accept the principle of free
:34:33. > :34:35.movement if there is not going to be a hard border between the north and
:34:36. > :34:40.south of Ireland. There is going to be free movement within Ireland and
:34:41. > :34:45.therefore freedom of movement, as we said in the referendum campaign,
:34:46. > :34:51.would be very, very difficult to rule out. You lost that campaign, as
:34:52. > :34:57.you know, Wales voted to leave, 17 Council areas voted to leave, only
:34:58. > :35:01.five voted to remain. Doesn't it explain why your party is going
:35:02. > :35:07.nowhere? A majority in Wales voted to leave but you effectively want to
:35:08. > :35:12.support that and de facto remain in the EU? I don't accept that, we
:35:13. > :35:17.accepted the result but Plaid Cymru now is about defending Wales. There
:35:18. > :35:21.are so many risks facing our people from the jobs perspective, the
:35:22. > :35:25.privatisation perspective, the cuts perspective, and from the fact that
:35:26. > :35:30.the Tories would like to grab power was back from our National Assembly,
:35:31. > :35:34.so the key point... If you look at the Wales bill that went through
:35:35. > :35:37.recently, the list of reserved powers there suggests there are some
:35:38. > :35:44.powers currently within the Welsh Assembly jurisdiction that would be
:35:45. > :35:49.dragged back. Which power was will Westminster take back? They could
:35:50. > :35:56.take powers back over the NHS, for example. There is no indication they
:35:57. > :36:05.want to do that. The Tories have attacked the Welsh NHS. That is my
:36:06. > :36:08.point! Quite viciously. If they increase their mandate, I wouldn't
:36:09. > :36:13.put it past them to try to take power was back over the NHS and then
:36:14. > :36:18.of course we risk our NHS being privatised though this election is
:36:19. > :36:21.all about defending Wales, protecting Welsh people from further
:36:22. > :36:25.privatisation and cuts and a power grab from the Tories. Why is there
:36:26. > :36:30.never a breakthrough for your party, Plaid Cymru? Labour dominated in
:36:31. > :36:34.Wales for years, the Tories do quite well, Ukip had a surge for a while,
:36:35. > :36:39.it looks like the Tories will have another surge, never you, always the
:36:40. > :36:43.bridesmaid, never the bride. Wait until Thursday and I think you will
:36:44. > :36:46.see that in many parts of Wales we will increase our representation at
:36:47. > :36:53.a local council level. In the Rhondda, where I am assembly member,
:36:54. > :37:01.we are looking to increase our representation... You are only 13%
:37:02. > :37:05.in the polls will stop which is half of even the Tories in Wales! If you
:37:06. > :37:12.don't breakthrough in the selection, if the real problem is going
:37:13. > :37:17.nowhere, do you think you will pack it in? Robert Green not, I have a
:37:18. > :37:21.job to do, a vision of Wales which is about building up our nation and
:37:22. > :37:25.standing on our own two feet and my job is not done yet. Thank you for
:37:26. > :37:29.being with us as part of your job, we will see how it goes on Thursday.
:37:30. > :37:31.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:32. > :37:34.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:37:35. > :01:00.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:01:01. > :01:16.We have the local elections, Metro elections in Liverpool, greater
:01:17. > :01:21.Birmingham, West Midlands, how will they play into the general election?
:01:22. > :01:27.Significantly, it is very unusual. People keep comparing this with the
:01:28. > :01:30.election in 83, not! Margaret Thatcher was nervous and to wait
:01:31. > :01:34.until after the local elections to call the election to see the result.
:01:35. > :01:40.We are getting these result in the middle of an election campaign so it
:01:41. > :01:44.will be important, whoever does badly will suffer a dent in
:01:45. > :01:48.confidence in terms of how they approach the election and we are
:01:49. > :01:52.also going to have mayoral figures as a reminder of another big
:01:53. > :01:56.difference with the 80s that however big, say, the Conservatives win in
:01:57. > :01:59.Westminster, there are now sectors of power in other parts of the
:02:00. > :02:06.United Kingdom which were not there in the 80s. One of the reasons
:02:07. > :02:10.niches that are rated in 83 was memories were still alive in
:02:11. > :02:14.political circles of 1970, Wilson saw the local election results and
:02:15. > :02:18.thought, I can win, he was told he would win by the Economist magazine,
:02:19. > :02:25.who had done the analysis, and of course he lost, so that is why she
:02:26. > :02:30.waited, Mrs May does not need to wait for that at all now, and on the
:02:31. > :02:34.Metro elections, the one she will be looking at is the West Midlands,
:02:35. > :02:38.that is the one that is a competition. I think she can really
:02:39. > :02:41.lose on Thursday in the local elections, governing parties are
:02:42. > :02:47.supposed to take effect again, losing lots of council seats. She is
:02:48. > :02:52.projected to put on 100 or so seats, Labour projected to lose around 200,
:02:53. > :02:55.the first time the main opposition party has shed seats since something
:02:56. > :02:59.like 83 so clearly the local elections give Mrs May great
:03:00. > :03:03.momentum going into the general election campaign but there is a
:03:04. > :03:06.downside in that, which is what we have already heard fighting about
:03:07. > :03:11.this morning, if it looks like it is going too well for the Tories, it
:03:12. > :03:15.says to voters, why bother turning up? Sushi comes up with totally
:03:16. > :03:18.unbelievable sound bites this morning that this is the most
:03:19. > :03:27.important general election in her lifetime. Really?! For her it is! It
:03:28. > :03:32.always is until the next one! I wonder if voter turnout is a
:03:33. > :03:37.problem? Tory voters are more likely to vote than Labour voters. If there
:03:38. > :03:42.is a sense that it is all over bar the shouting, the overall turnout
:03:43. > :03:46.will be low that Tory voters are still likely to turn out more than
:03:47. > :03:51.Labour voters so she would still win some. I don't think she needs to be
:03:52. > :03:54.too worried, I think there will be a significantly low turnout, even I am
:03:55. > :04:02.finding it hard to be that excited about this general election. Really,
:04:03. > :04:06.the policies, we have spent a lot of time talking about them today and we
:04:07. > :04:10.have to examine them, but all this is about is, do you want Theresa May
:04:11. > :04:14.or Jeremy Corbyn in Number Ten? Those are the only question is,
:04:15. > :04:19.apart from possibly how strong do you feel about Brexit, that will be
:04:20. > :04:23.on the voters' minds. You may say that but I will not be put off from
:04:24. > :04:29.going through a list of policies that we have already had in the last
:04:30. > :04:38.24 hours. On the Conservatives, more powers to stop company bosses under
:04:39. > :04:43.pensions, of course Philip Green was in mind there. Labour has come up
:04:44. > :04:46.with quite a few policies, actually, give all work of equal rights,
:04:47. > :04:56.whether part-time or full-time, temporary or permanent. Ukip, scrap
:04:57. > :05:01.VAT or takeaway -- on takeaway food and end the BBC licence fee. The
:05:02. > :05:09.Liberal Democrats have come out posed to the runway at Heathrow. I
:05:10. > :05:16.thought I knew that already? Will any of these policies make a
:05:17. > :05:20.difference? They are all nice handy things that people quite liked but
:05:21. > :05:24.probably not, is the answer. They are an awful way away from polling
:05:25. > :05:29.day now for people to remember and latch onto. I don't think you make
:05:30. > :05:33.your mind up on small issues like Heathrow, unless you live in
:05:34. > :05:37.Richmond-upon-Thames, maybe, but the problem Labour have got with
:05:38. > :05:41.unfailing a lot of these retail type policies which, in themselves, are
:05:42. > :05:45.very popular, is no one will listen to them until they get over the
:05:46. > :05:49.leadership credibility issue. Jeremy Corbyn could the world on a stick,
:05:50. > :05:53.but if no one believes he can deliver it then he will not be
:05:54. > :05:56.listened to and he has not done much apart from a speech yesterday in
:05:57. > :05:59.which is claim to fame was getting arrested, I don't see how that would
:06:00. > :06:08.work for him getting to Number Ten. They are not making progress on it.
:06:09. > :06:11.Labour has rolled out a number of policies which, taken individually,
:06:12. > :06:17.would have certain traction in normal times, quite interesting
:06:18. > :06:20.ideas, this sense of unfairness, a feeling that ordinary workers have
:06:21. > :06:26.not done well out of the recovery, those who caused the crash have, 20
:06:27. > :06:29.points, I went through some of them earlier, putting aside they are not
:06:30. > :06:35.costed, we are assured they will be. The problem I suggest is not the
:06:36. > :06:40.costing but the cut through? Every election has a context which is
:06:41. > :06:43.determined by opinion polls, however sceptical we are these days, and if
:06:44. > :06:49.one party is way ahead it is difficult for the other party to
:06:50. > :06:53.appear relevant, because if people assume they are not going to win,
:06:54. > :06:59.even some of its own MPs are saying, we are not going to win this, so you
:07:00. > :07:04.can vote for us, it is very hard to get attention and relevance. Where I
:07:05. > :07:07.think all the parties are bad with their current leaders is framing
:07:08. > :07:13.arguments, so those policies you have highlighted makes sense. The
:07:14. > :07:18.best leaders are brilliant framers of an argument and neither Theresa
:07:19. > :07:24.Maynor Jeremy Corbyn R. They have been campaigning, their manifestos
:07:25. > :07:28.are not out yet, both sides have been telling us we have to wait for
:07:29. > :07:31.costings, but it has not stopped them campaigning. Let's remind you
:07:32. > :07:37.of where they have been and what they have been doing so far.
:07:38. > :07:41.Let's start with Jeremy Corbyn, his first official visit was in the
:07:42. > :07:47.ultra-marginal Conservative seat of Croydon Central where the MP Gavin
:07:48. > :07:52.Barwell has a lead of just 165. That is not the only Conservative seat he
:07:53. > :07:55.has visited, along the way he popped in on Bristol North West, a
:07:56. > :08:02.Conservative majority of nearly 5000. The Tory seat of Cardiff
:08:03. > :08:10.North, a lead of just over 2000, Warrington South, just over 2700,
:08:11. > :08:14.and Crewe and Nantwich, Tory majority of three and a half
:08:15. > :08:20.thousand. Yesterday he visited Bethnal greed and Bob, a Labour lead
:08:21. > :08:24.of 20 4000. Theresa May kicked off her campaign in Bolton, Labour
:08:25. > :08:29.majority of over 4000. On her way round the UK she had a comfy stop in
:08:30. > :08:34.her own maidenhead seat, where she is defending a majority of nearly
:08:35. > :08:38.30,000, before travelling to other Labour marginals including Dudley
:08:39. > :08:44.North, a Labour lead of 4000. Bridgend, a lead of just under 2004
:08:45. > :08:58.Labour, before becoming ambitious and visiting shadow minister Richard
:08:59. > :09:02.Bergen's Leeds East seat, which he won by over 12,500 votes. Yesterday
:09:03. > :09:04.she went north of the border to Aberdeenshire, where amongst other
:09:05. > :09:06.places she visited the SNP seat of West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine,
:09:07. > :09:07.where the Tories would have to gain over 7000 votes to unseat the NP.
:09:08. > :09:15.What do you make of it all so far? It is remarkable she is doing these
:09:16. > :09:20.visits in Scotland. Past but even five years and the idea of a Tory
:09:21. > :09:24.Prime Minister going round Scotland would be utterly counter-productive,
:09:25. > :09:28.and actually they are ambitious for Scotland now under with Davidson, a
:09:29. > :09:31.prospect of multiple seats, and that would be a real genuine shift in
:09:32. > :09:41.Scottish politics, the likes of which we have not seen for 15 or 20
:09:42. > :09:45.years. If she gets that, that helps towards 100 seats, because if she
:09:46. > :09:50.wins ten in Scotland, it is effectively 20, the SNP lose ten,
:09:51. > :09:55.she gains ten, she wants to do that in the Midlands with Labour, and the
:09:56. > :09:59.North. To get the 100 majority, other than Scotland, she has to win
:10:00. > :10:05.Labour seats, that is all that is there. And clearly she has been
:10:06. > :10:08.told, it is obvious, that she has a chance of doing so, otherwise you
:10:09. > :10:13.don't go to these parts of the country in the first few days of the
:10:14. > :10:18.campaign. All logic points to her being able to pull it off as well.
:10:19. > :10:22.The opinion polls, the state of the Labour Party. The only qualification
:10:23. > :10:26.I have in this is that politics is so wild and free Braille at the
:10:27. > :10:35.moment, it doesn't feel like landslide to rain. That is true, it
:10:36. > :10:39.doesn't. It is early days, we haven't yet had the manifestos, the
:10:40. > :10:44.campaign is yet to gather momentum. It doesn't feel like landslide
:10:45. > :10:51.territory. I disagree, look at every single poll, the Tory lead is 10% in
:10:52. > :10:56.Wales, you can see her picking up 20 seat there. Put this together, I am
:10:57. > :11:02.told by the way she is going into traditional Labour heartland again
:11:03. > :11:08.tomorrow, the key is the Ukip vote. That will implode... Crumble towards
:11:09. > :11:23.Tories? If she can hoover that up and retain the Tory vote, she will
:11:24. > :11:24.have a majority of 150. I cannot let you go without
:11:25. > :11:24.reminding you that it is Donald Trump's 100 days. He's not making a
:11:25. > :11:27.lot of it now, this is what he said last night.
:11:28. > :11:30.We are just beginning in our fight to make America great again.
:11:31. > :11:39.Now, before we talk about my first 100 days, which has been very
:11:40. > :11:44.exciting and very productive, let's rate the media's 100 days.
:11:45. > :11:59.Because, as you know, they are a disgrace.
:12:00. > :12:05.There you go, still bashing the media, that was at a rally in
:12:06. > :12:11.Virginia, the 100 days was last night. He seems happier campaigning
:12:12. > :12:15.than running the country. You each have 20 seconds to give me your
:12:16. > :12:22.board on the first 100 days. Remarkable, he will not stop
:12:23. > :12:27.slagging off the media but America first has not meant America first in
:12:28. > :12:32.terms of national policy, he has reneges on what he said about Nato
:12:33. > :12:36.being obsolete. He is moving from the old right to the centre because
:12:37. > :12:44.that is where you get things done, he is a pragmatist, also is about's
:12:45. > :12:50.friend Nigel Parrott is no longer welcome, we read this morning!
:12:51. > :12:54.Allegedly! He loves campaigning but finds governing much more difficult.
:12:55. > :12:59.Who would have thought being president of the United States was a
:13:00. > :13:04.difficult job?! He loves rallies but being president and politics is a
:13:05. > :13:08.very difficult thing indeed. Thank you, there we go, Mr Trump's 100
:13:09. > :13:11.days, we will see what the next 100 brings.
:13:12. > :13:14.The Daily Politics is back on BBC Two after the bank holiday
:13:15. > :13:16.on Tuesday at midday, with all the latest
:13:17. > :13:20.And I'll be back here on BBC One next Sunday
:13:21. > :13:30.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.