:00:00. > :00:00.compared to today. A bit more rain heads in after Monday and Tuesday ``
:00:00. > :00:16.on Monday and Tuesday. Then it turns a bit hotter. This is BBC News. The
:00:17. > :00:38.headlines. Security Council members call for
:00:39. > :00:45.de`escalation of the situation. Arch John Carey drops his opposition
:00:46. > :00:51.to assisted dying, saying it would not be against Christianity.
:00:52. > :01:00.Thousands of people take part in the annual parades of the Orange order.
:01:01. > :01:09.Both candidates in Pakistani `` in Afghanistan's contested elections
:01:10. > :01:15.agree to a recount. Now on BBC News, talking business.
:01:16. > :01:18.The music industry has come a long way since the days when money
:01:19. > :01:23.What is the new business model for artists, record label and managers?
:01:24. > :01:25.I am Linda Yueh, in Singapore, these are my guests
:01:26. > :01:48.The music industry has been transformed in ways that would have
:01:49. > :01:53.been hard to imagine when vinyl ruled the radio waves.
:01:54. > :01:57.Gone are the days when the money was made just by selling records.
:01:58. > :02:00.Now, artists make their cash in a variety of ways.
:02:01. > :02:06.Ranging from selling individual tracks and allowing listeners to
:02:07. > :02:10.download select parts of records, through to live performances.
:02:11. > :02:12.Bands like Radiohead have even allowed the fans to pay
:02:13. > :02:19.Music streaming has also changed the industry
:02:20. > :02:30.Here with me now are Rob Schwarz, Tokyo bureau chief of Billboard
:02:31. > :02:35.Brian Message, one of the managers of Radiohead and founding member
:02:36. > :02:47.founder of the Black Eyed Peas and label Boombox.
:02:48. > :02:52.How has the music industry changed during
:02:53. > :02:56.It has been the biggest changes since the start
:02:57. > :03:02.In the early days, we had to prove ourselves to record companies.
:03:03. > :03:08.In LA, it was predominantly rap music.
:03:09. > :03:11.So we were more into hip`hop, break`dancing, free styling.
:03:12. > :03:20.So we would shop our demos to Sony, and you them it was not tangible
:03:21. > :03:27.So back then, I don't want to reveal my age, but there was no e`mail,
:03:28. > :03:38.So we would get everyone's address on the way out of the show
:03:39. > :03:41.and we would mail them flyers and get them to come to the next
:03:42. > :03:49.And then the record company started smelling the coffee ` "Oh,
:03:50. > :03:59.Nowadays, it is like artists have an easier way to present their music.
:04:00. > :04:05.YouTube, Instagram and Vine and all the social media.
:04:06. > :04:13.My take is that nothing has changed in having to be smart.
:04:14. > :04:17.Back in the day you had to be smart to get the record exec's attention
:04:18. > :04:20.so you went out with a strategy to be interesting.
:04:21. > :04:22.Nowadays you have to be smart because there's so much noise
:04:23. > :04:27.and you have to be smart smart to get attention.
:04:28. > :04:32.Also, everyone can just upload a video of music
:04:33. > :04:35.but you have got to have something unique to capture the viewers.
:04:36. > :04:42.The gatekeepers have really been removed.
:04:43. > :04:45.All the tools are in the hands of everyone who wants to use them,
:04:46. > :04:54.It is a fantastic era but the huge profits
:04:55. > :05:00.People do still sell millions of albums.
:05:01. > :05:04.Taylor Swift had one of the fastest selling albums ever.
:05:05. > :05:10.But that is not the main way to make money from music, selling albums?
:05:11. > :05:17.Only for the really, really big stars.
:05:18. > :05:25.You can be a big star but you have to do shows
:05:26. > :05:43.It gives you exercise, you get exercise in performing on stage.
:05:44. > :05:52.You can see stars and then when they do shows, you are like, "OK...
:05:53. > :05:59.Brian, is that a big change and will it continue that to make
:06:00. > :06:02.money from music, it is not just about the album sales, it is
:06:03. > :06:05.about the album that it is about the live tours, all the parts.
:06:06. > :06:08.Not to go and sound like a broken record, the game really is
:06:09. > :06:20.It is a rich engagement between your artist and Goffin.
:06:21. > :06:25.And sometimes it can be monetised, sometimes it will not get monetised.
:06:26. > :06:28.But it is about the tapestry of everything together.
:06:29. > :06:30.And after that, you work out a strategy to monetise it.
:06:31. > :06:33.Sometimes you give your music away for free in order to
:06:34. > :06:37.Other times you might get involved in a free gig.
:06:38. > :06:40.It depends on your strategy but is it is a mix of a lot of things.
:06:41. > :06:43.Radiohead famously allowed fans to pay whatever they wanted
:06:44. > :06:48.What was the thinking behind that and would you do it again?
:06:49. > :06:54.I think the band at the time were empowered, they has
:06:55. > :06:58.just left their record label and looking at how the landscape
:06:59. > :07:04.of the world was, and for them it was making that decision at that
:07:05. > :07:09.There was mass piracy online, so that idea of being,
:07:10. > :07:13.just charging what we thought was the right price from the website
:07:14. > :07:21.of Radiohead did not necessarily fit well with what was giving that
:07:22. > :07:32.So we could let's be democratic, let's let the fans choose
:07:33. > :07:35.Nowadays, the landscape as it evolved considerably.
:07:36. > :07:41.You have more legal opportunities whether ins Bossi five or YouTube,
:07:42. > :07:52.A nice place for us is that your artist plays in different ways
:07:53. > :08:02.`` your artist has different ways to look at what they do.
:08:03. > :08:06.Will it be `` what I will bring you in here.
:08:07. > :08:11.Will this freewheeling for the mid``` music industry in the future?
:08:12. > :08:13.Artists giving away albums, free concerts,
:08:14. > :08:18.I think there has to be a way to monetise the music.
:08:19. > :08:20.Nobody used to think that way in the past.
:08:21. > :08:22.The monetary consideration used to be first.
:08:23. > :08:25.Now, it is get your music alba and develop the relationship
:08:26. > :08:27.and afterwards figure out how to monetise it.
:08:28. > :08:30.But there has to be some revenue streams that has to
:08:31. > :08:38.Spotify has not come through and it may do in the future and Brianmy
:08:39. > :08:41.point is that it is about scale, once they have more revenue they can
:08:42. > :08:45.But it is yet to be determined whether streaming can be
:08:46. > :08:49.Brian, this sounds as if it is a very difficult business
:08:50. > :08:57.If you are managing acts and you are working out how much to sign them
:08:58. > :09:05.Spotify for, how much to invest in them, how is this playing out?
:09:06. > :09:08.Because in the days, you got a DJ to play your song...
:09:09. > :09:10.Going back to what's point in the old days,
:09:11. > :09:14.Your record company got you on the radio and if you got through
:09:15. > :09:18.Nowadays, because of the distribution
:09:19. > :09:21.collapsing or proliferating into many, many ways.``, you have
:09:22. > :09:26.But it is not dissimilar to other businesses in other industries.
:09:27. > :09:34.The same rules still apply, we work on building artists as a business.
:09:35. > :09:36.So when you are a young artist with no
:09:37. > :09:40.firm `` with no fan base whatsoever, you have to find some traction.
:09:41. > :09:47.If you need a relevant capital, you might have to get that from friends.
:09:48. > :09:53.Globally, it must be so hard to stand out unless you are
:09:54. > :09:59.The contribute `` the competition has increased a thousandfold.
:10:00. > :10:02.But in the old days, the recording industry was really
:10:03. > :10:06.People toured to promote their records.
:10:07. > :10:10.Since recorded music has collapsed, now touring is one of
:10:11. > :10:15.So people do not tour just to promote themselves.
:10:16. > :10:23.Maybe ticket prices have gone up but it is good for bands to tour
:10:24. > :10:35.You have unique suffered utilise social media is.
:10:36. > :10:45.You come up with unique stuff and utilise social media. I see Viner
:10:46. > :10:47.stars now. They can have seven seconds of crazy
:10:48. > :10:50.videos and so they get traction. So as an artist, you have got to
:10:51. > :10:55.utilise all those platforms to gain The world now is that technology has
:10:56. > :11:04.allowed everybody to make technology The differential is
:11:05. > :11:08.going to be quality. It is going to be what do people or
:11:09. > :11:12.consumers or fans get out of its? If you can deliver that
:11:13. > :11:16.as an artist or film`maker, then you I'm going to ask you
:11:17. > :11:39.guys to make a prediction. Has the MP3 meant the death of the
:11:40. > :11:43.CD? Can I go first? There is a big misconception about the CDs. People
:11:44. > :11:51.think they do not exist any more. They are worth billions of dollars
:11:52. > :11:53.in America and in Japan. You still can buy CDs across the United
:11:54. > :11:59.States. It is just that they are discounted. You will pay a much
:12:00. > :12:03.lower price for them. All you can find a huge huge stars, Taylor
:12:04. > :12:10.Swift, Katy Perry, that is all that you can find. The indie bands have
:12:11. > :12:15.been pushed out of the CD market. It still does exist. When you say MP3,
:12:16. > :12:19.you have to be careful, Brian would be knowledgeable about this.
:12:20. > :12:22.Downloading is a new revenue stream is not as strong as it used to be
:12:23. > :12:28.and is probably not going to get stronger. We are looking to
:12:29. > :12:36.streaming to replace that and it has not arrived yet. We are in limbo. Do
:12:37. > :12:41.you agree, Brian? Yes. Streaming is giving fans all over the world is an
:12:42. > :12:46.opportunity to do something. It is a great way for fans to interact.
:12:47. > :12:51.People like watching YouTube. People like to use Spotify. It is still in
:12:52. > :12:54.its mass and form. But it is not that downloading will go away, but
:12:55. > :13:03.we will see streaming continuing to run a pace, provided that we can all
:13:04. > :13:04.pull together to drive better subscriptions and more use of those
:13:05. > :13:11.models. I will ask you to do
:13:12. > :13:14.something old`fashioned. There was a time when some bands
:13:15. > :13:18.went on TV , they showed a bit of their wares , so I will ask you to
:13:19. > :13:21.rap us out, to finish the segment. Since I am in Asia,
:13:22. > :13:31.I will break it down . I will do it in the Filipino
:13:32. > :13:47.language. That was Rob Schwarz ,
:13:48. > :14:01.Brian Message and Apl.de.ap One genre that has got through
:14:02. > :14:05.the global music is K`Pop. Korean pop music has been
:14:06. > :14:09.a hit with music lovers around the world, cutting through
:14:10. > :14:22.where others have failed. Artists like Psy have used YouTube
:14:23. > :14:25.to create a fan base Korean bands have fans as far
:14:26. > :14:33.as Mexico. A multi`billion dollar industry that
:14:34. > :14:48.has been growing in double digits. Joining now to discuss why Korean
:14:49. > :14:53.pop has succeeded in going global are a Korean pop
:14:54. > :15:08.star and Bernie Cho. Welcome.
:15:09. > :15:11.What is the appeal of Korean pop? I think the language. It is quite
:15:12. > :15:20.different from English or Chinese or Japanese. It has a different
:15:21. > :15:23.pronunciation and when it comes to music the pronunciation of Korean
:15:24. > :15:34.makes it more attractive, somehow, I think. Do you agree? Why has K`Pop
:15:35. > :15:42.gone global? Many don't. I think she had it on the head. It has the do
:15:43. > :15:48.with language. One reason K`Pop has travelled well is the fact that
:15:49. > :15:52.K`Pop is very accessible. The courses are catchy. They're often in
:15:53. > :16:10.English. `` definitely, K`Pop is not just
:16:11. > :16:14.exclusively for careers. I see you agreeing. When you look
:16:15. > :16:23.into your own music, how much of it is Korean question `` exclusively
:16:24. > :16:31.for Koreans. I lived in Canada and grew up listening to pop music,
:16:32. > :16:39.hip`hop, so I think the global music influenced me. In my music, some
:16:40. > :16:44.people feel differently. I think it is all mixed up when you see my
:16:45. > :16:49.music. Bernie, when a lot of Korean pop stars want to break through,
:16:50. > :16:59.what do you advise them? Not everyone will have their chance to
:17:00. > :17:07.be international. Before Psy came along, a lot of artists were
:17:08. > :17:13.frustrated about how difficult it is to cross over. But I took a lot of
:17:14. > :17:16.inspiration from Latin music of the 90s. What made their music so fresh
:17:17. > :17:24.was the fact that they retained an element of their culture. I often
:17:25. > :17:29.tell artists, making great music is first and foremost. If language for
:17:30. > :17:35.you is an instrument to get that message and that music out there, so
:17:36. > :17:42.be it. But I do emphasise and I think Psy was proof of concept
:17:43. > :17:46.that, depending on the market, language is important in interviews
:17:47. > :17:51.so that you can hook the audience and fans into your music. People
:17:52. > :17:58.want to know more. When they want to know more, you need to speak the
:17:59. > :18:02.language. We tell artists to try to express yourselves in interviews in
:18:03. > :18:06.English, if you can. More importantly, don't worry about the
:18:07. > :18:11.accent. If anything, they will probably think it is endearing. When
:18:12. > :18:23.I show them French DJs, I say look at these guys, people love it. I
:18:24. > :18:33.think in many ways, a lot of Korean artists, language barriers have come
:18:34. > :18:37.down. There is a wave of Korean artists who are happy to express
:18:38. > :18:42.themselves in different languages and it makes Korean artists right
:18:43. > :18:50.now, not only very versatile but more importantly it can travel
:18:51. > :18:54.further. Where are your fans? I thought that only Korean fans
:18:55. > :19:01.existed. But when I came here to Singapore or even Europe, I went
:19:02. > :19:06.recently and this girl recognised me, somehow, and I was really
:19:07. > :19:14.surprised that people from another country are actually loving my
:19:15. > :19:18.music. I don't know. I don't know where my fans are, but it is
:19:19. > :19:26.interesting to find them. Bernie, you touched on the new wave of
:19:27. > :19:34.Korean artists. The earlier waves seemed more manufactured. More
:19:35. > :19:41.reminiscent of some of the talent shows that we see around the world.
:19:42. > :19:46.I think for a lot of people, when they are injured used to K`Pop or
:19:47. > :19:54.hear about K`Pop, there has been a stereotype that act two is boy bands
:19:55. > :20:00.and girl bands. `` that K`Pop. But K`Pop is a diverse scene. If you
:20:01. > :20:06.look at the charts now, you find more singer songwriter is, more
:20:07. > :20:10.artists, producers, solo artists. More so than ever, more of them are
:20:11. > :20:17.being discovered on TV audition shows. My fellow interviewee was
:20:18. > :20:24.very successful on one of those shows. The kids that went through
:20:25. > :20:31.the sort of boy band, girl band system, it could take seven years to
:20:32. > :20:36.debut. Because of the new talent on TV are already talented to begin
:20:37. > :20:42.with, that debut time has gone from seven years to maybe seven months.
:20:43. > :20:46.One of the criticisms of people that come to audition shows is that more
:20:47. > :20:51.established artists will say, you guys are not the real deal. What
:20:52. > :20:59.would you say to that? Going through the programme was a process, but it
:21:00. > :21:04.was shorter than other people's. Some people can say that, I think,
:21:05. > :21:11.but I don't want to deny it. But I am growing up. I think it is a great
:21:12. > :21:17.process to experience. Bernie, when you are working with acts, what are
:21:18. > :21:23.the biggest sort of obstacles in pushing a Korean act to going
:21:24. > :21:30.global? Such as making them a star in America? When we look at a Korean
:21:31. > :21:36.act, whether that is rock or electronic or urban, first and
:21:37. > :21:42.foremost is that language is not the priority, it is having an amazing
:21:43. > :21:46.live show. That translates across`the`board. If the live show
:21:47. > :21:53.is amazing, everything else falls into place. One of the things that
:21:54. > :21:59.Korean artists have been very good at... When you talk about digital
:22:00. > :22:03.and youth culture, it is one and the same with pop culture. A lot of
:22:04. > :22:08.management companies have been very savvy and using social `` and have
:22:09. > :22:13.used social media to reach out to fan bases. You may not know where
:22:14. > :22:18.they are, but they are out there. The feedback that a lot of these
:22:19. > :22:24.artists are getting, we now have the analytics, we have the numbers, we
:22:25. > :22:28.have the stats to say, look, our fans are in North America, Europe,
:22:29. > :22:35.and as a result we are seeing Korean acts targeting these markets.
:22:36. > :22:39.Surprisingly, many of them are either appearing at major music
:22:40. > :22:49.festivals or selling out world tours. I think the fact that, for
:22:50. > :22:57.whatever reason, career's timing was very good in terms of using social
:22:58. > :23:03.media to get where everyone is act. `` its at.
:23:04. > :23:08.Money for a music is now made from streaming and touring and it has
:23:09. > :23:13.made artists global. But it has made standing out even more challenging.
:23:14. > :23:18.For as consumers, we benefit from lower prices and access to a larger
:23:19. > :23:22.variety of music than have before. Check out our website. Join us for
:23:23. > :23:45.more Talking Business. you are likely to have a better day
:23:46. > :23:47.tomorrow. If you started with sunshine, you will