:00:00. > :00:00.Now on the BBC News Channel, time for Talking Business with Linda
:00:07. > :00:09.Yeuh. What is the future for the media
:00:10. > :00:12.industry as consumers become more discerning and social? We hear from
:00:13. > :00:16.insiders and some of the biggest players at the cutting edge of
:00:17. > :00:17.internet innovation. Here in Singapore, I'm Linda Yeuh and we're
:00:18. > :00:44.talking business. Welcome to the programme. The media
:00:45. > :00:49.landscape is changing at a breakneck pace. The advent of new media is
:00:50. > :00:53.changing the structure of how products are marketed and advertised
:00:54. > :00:57.to you and me. So, how do companies create a brand for themselves in
:00:58. > :00:59.this fragmented New World? I sat down with Scott Donaldson, global
:01:00. > :01:02.chief content officer of media communications agency Universal
:01:03. > :01:04.McCann, based in New York, and Vishnu Mohan, chief executive of
:01:05. > :01:16.Asia`Pacific for Havas Media Group, based in Singapore. Lovely to speak
:01:17. > :01:21.to the two of you. Scott, let me start with you. What makes a
:01:22. > :01:25.successful brand? Well, I think my definition of brand has always been
:01:26. > :01:30.what I thought was one of the most simple definitions, which is that a
:01:31. > :01:33.brand is a promise. It's a promise to the consumer of a certain level
:01:34. > :01:36.of consistency and a certain level of quality. But I think in today's
:01:37. > :01:46.world, it's much more complex than that. Because it used to be that
:01:47. > :01:50.whoever was making the brand defined what that promise was and then had
:01:51. > :01:56.to deliver on it. In fact, today, a brand is really a sum of a lot of
:01:57. > :02:00.different things. It's shaped as much by its audience and by its
:02:01. > :02:03.detractors and by its fans as it is by the brand marketers themselves.
:02:04. > :02:07.So it really is a much better thing, in a way, because the relationship
:02:08. > :02:10.with the consumer is so much deeper, but it's a much more complicated
:02:11. > :02:14.landscape than it used to be, as well. So we're past the Mad Men era,
:02:15. > :02:17.in terms of the agencies telling you, "that's the brand and that's
:02:18. > :02:21.what defines the brand". What do you think? I think to add to what Scott
:02:22. > :02:24.has just said, I think one of the most important things that brands
:02:25. > :02:27.need to be today is meaningful. We did a little study globally and it
:02:28. > :02:30.proved continuously, year after year for four years, that consumers are
:02:31. > :02:34.basically saying that70% of the brands have no life. They don't
:02:35. > :02:37.trust brands. And in the era of trust, which is extremely important,
:02:38. > :02:40.brands go beyond what Scott was just mentioning about a promise, a
:02:41. > :03:00.product or benefits or irrational benefits. Consumers are seeking much
:03:01. > :03:03.more, much more out of the brands. And if the brands do not deliver
:03:04. > :03:06.that, it's going to be a dead one. And that's a very, very... You know,
:03:07. > :03:09.a very interesting finding that appeared in that survey. I am taking
:03:10. > :03:13.it to all our advertisers and they're really... If you look at the
:03:14. > :03:16.speeches that are being made today by the CMOs, whether it be Unilever
:03:17. > :03:19.or P or anybody else, they aren't talking about business with purpose
:03:20. > :03:22.today. This wasn't one of the languages that was being used in the
:03:23. > :03:25.past. And that's because they realise that the power has shifted
:03:26. > :03:29.from them into the hands of the consumer. So they have to do
:03:30. > :03:31.something. So what are the kinds of changes in having to relate directly
:03:32. > :03:34.to the consumers to persuade them that this is a trustworthy,
:03:35. > :03:37.meaningful brand? I think we're moving and Vishnu makes a great
:03:38. > :03:40.point. It's not about product claims any more. People are very suspicious
:03:41. > :03:44.of those. They don't want to be told what brand it is. But if you think
:03:45. > :03:47.about advertising and marketing, for 100 years, you and I would be having
:03:48. > :03:53.a conversation and somebody would come in... A brand would walk in,
:03:54. > :03:56.wait their arms around, interrupt the conversation we're having and
:03:57. > :04:00.talk about themselves. And that world is just over. That
:04:01. > :04:03.interruptive, intrusive form of marketing is just dead. And what has
:04:04. > :04:07.to replace it is storytelling. The most basic way we human beings make
:04:08. > :04:10.sense of the world is through stories. And brands have to do the
:04:11. > :04:13.same thing. They have to understand what the conversation is that we're
:04:14. > :04:17.having, where they might add value to it, what their story is. Not what
:04:18. > :04:20.are their product claims but what is their role and their purpose in our
:04:21. > :04:24.lives? It's bigger than that. And then come in and be a part of that
:04:25. > :04:27.conversation with us. That's the only way the brand is going to
:04:28. > :04:30.succeed. I think, to add to that, when brands start to give consumers,
:04:31. > :04:33.like, a forum, whereby consumers can actually share their experiences...
:04:34. > :04:36.And that sharing experiences much more happening today in the world of
:04:37. > :04:39.social media. Then the brands really get the opportunity to become
:04:40. > :04:42.engaging. If you look at a lot of the stuff that's going around in
:04:43. > :04:45.today's world in terms of brands trying to make the most out of it,
:04:46. > :04:49.it's really been brands trying to give the power in the hands of the
:04:50. > :04:52.consumer by allowing them to express their views of the brand or share
:04:53. > :05:02.the experience. And then from there, the story has emerged. What if I'm a
:05:03. > :05:05.viewer, watching this and thinking, "Oh, they're trying to sell me
:05:06. > :05:08.brands. I just want a good product that is cheap. Why should I buy into
:05:09. > :05:12.this experience and storytelling? Isn't it just going to mark up the
:05:13. > :05:16.price of what I buy"? I don't think it's a matter of whether or not
:05:17. > :05:19.people buy into it. I think it's a matter of... Look, out there every
:05:20. > :05:23.day, people are making decisions on what to spend time with and what not
:05:24. > :05:26.to, what to pay attention to and what to block out of their lives. I
:05:27. > :05:30.think it's just a very simple reality that brands either are going
:05:31. > :05:33.to make stuff that is worthy of people's time or they're not an
:05:34. > :05:37.they're going to be blocked out. Because people have the power to do
:05:38. > :05:41.that now. You can't just intrude on their lives and give them the
:05:42. > :05:44.messaging you want. So it's not a matter of selling because if you
:05:45. > :05:47.don't want to be sold to, you're not going to be sold to because these
:05:48. > :05:50.messages aren't going to reach you and resonate with you. So really,
:05:51. > :05:54.the only answer is that brands have to try to make stuff that is as
:05:55. > :05:57.worthy of people's time as anything else they would spend time with.
:05:58. > :06:01.That's a very high bar. It really is the future. But Scott, if you think
:06:02. > :06:04.about the value question, consumers seeking value, that's never going to
:06:05. > :06:07.go away, OK? We always seek value from brands at all points of time.
:06:08. > :06:11.But the reality is, every brand is going to do that, right? So when
:06:12. > :06:15.every brand is still trying to get to the same value equation, who do I
:06:16. > :06:18.choose? Will I choose just the brand which is the brand which is 19? Or
:06:19. > :06:22.the brand which is 20, which is doing a little extra, which is more
:06:23. > :06:25.meaningful for me? I would pay the 20. And that's the difference. They
:06:26. > :06:27.will pay a premium and a brand that breaks through and engages
:06:28. > :06:30.audiences, they will pay, sometimes an irrational premium, because of
:06:31. > :06:33.the connection and relationship. You both mentioned social media changing
:06:34. > :06:37.tastes. How do you keep ahead of it? Because now it seems as if tastes do
:06:38. > :06:41.change very fast. Something can happen on the internet and it just
:06:42. > :06:48.changes the way people view a product. How do you stay abreast of
:06:49. > :06:52.that? I think it's about listening. I think it's about... Do you trawl
:06:53. > :06:55.Twitter a lot or anything? I think brands have to be constantly
:06:56. > :06:58.listening to the conversations that their audiences are having and and
:06:59. > :07:02.using... We used to think of data and creativity as almost enemies of
:07:03. > :07:06.each. `` of each other. Creative people in our industry just want to
:07:07. > :07:09.go off in a room by themselves and have a fantastic idea hit them. And
:07:10. > :07:13.when people talked about big data, that seems to be the antithesis of
:07:14. > :07:17.creativity. But in fact, data will spark the ideas if you pay attention
:07:18. > :07:20.to it. There's a lot in there that you can see coming, through social
:07:21. > :07:23.listening, and you can get insight into what's important to your
:07:24. > :07:26.audience. And then it's a matter of being able to respond quickly, which
:07:27. > :07:29.is something that brands haven't been able to do in the past. But
:07:30. > :07:32.really, we are marketing in real`time speed at this point. And
:07:33. > :07:35.that's a huge adjustment for brands. It's also why you see some brands
:07:36. > :07:39.making mistakes and stumbling really badly on social media. It's a tricky
:07:40. > :07:44.world but it's one that you have to play in to stay relevant. I think
:07:45. > :07:47.listening is one part of it and you brought up this thing about Mad Men.
:07:48. > :07:52.There's another theory going about "math men" today. In today's world,
:07:53. > :07:55.do you need more madmen or do you need more math men? To listen,
:07:56. > :07:59.actually, you need to make out of this voluminous data that you are
:08:00. > :08:07.getting some sense that you can give back to the brand to really make an
:08:08. > :08:10.actionable impact. And I think that's very, very key and that's one
:08:11. > :08:13.of the challenges that most people are struggling with. How do you take
:08:14. > :08:15.this massive amount of data that you have collected into an actionable
:08:16. > :08:19.intelligence? Social media is widely seen as a
:08:20. > :08:22.game changer in the future of the media industry. It's having the
:08:23. > :08:25.biggest impact on publishing of online content. Companies now needs
:08:26. > :08:31.to be increasingly agile and adaptable to the way information,
:08:32. > :08:35.ideas and news are shared. Joining me today to discuss these trends are
:08:36. > :08:38.Adam Anger, general manager for greater China at Microsoft
:08:39. > :08:43.Advertising. Scott Lamb, vice president of international at online
:08:44. > :08:45.publisher Buzzfeed. And Rose Tsou, senior vice president in charge of
:08:46. > :08:52.the Asia`Pacific region for web portal and search engine company
:08:53. > :08:56.Yahoo. Welcome to all of you. I'm going to start with you, Adam. Right
:08:57. > :08:58.now, when you look at the way that social media is changing the way
:08:59. > :09:05.that online content gets consumed, what are the biggest trends that you
:09:06. > :09:08.are seeing among consumers? Well, some of the things that we are
:09:09. > :09:15.seeing is a big way that consumers are changing the way they consume
:09:16. > :09:18.media. We see that a lot of the consumers across Asia`Pacific, and
:09:19. > :09:21.even across the world... Much more of their time is spent consuming
:09:22. > :09:27.online, digitally and through the internet, than it is through TV. We
:09:28. > :09:33.also know that today's generation is becoming an always`on generation.
:09:34. > :09:37.You see that people carry their mobile with them almost all the time
:09:38. > :09:39.and so this concept of always having information readily available is
:09:40. > :09:45.important for media owners to understand. Also for media
:09:46. > :09:52.distributors to understand, as well as for advertisers to understand how
:09:53. > :09:55.the reach those audiences. Jump in here, Scott. In terms of Buzzfeed,
:09:56. > :10:01.how do you actually create content, knowing that trends are changing so
:10:02. > :10:04.quickly? One of the things we think about a lot at Buzzfeed is that not
:10:05. > :10:07.only people consuming a lot more digital media but they are using
:10:08. > :10:11.that media to connect with people in their lives. Their social feed is
:10:12. > :10:16.basically... It reflects their actual social network. And they want
:10:17. > :10:19.to consume content but even more than that, they want something where
:10:20. > :10:24.they are almost publishers themselves. And they want to be able
:10:25. > :10:26.to share that with people as a way of communicating with them and
:10:27. > :10:29.bonding with them. So it's very important for both publishers and
:10:30. > :10:33.brands to think about that exchange when they create content. Rose, is
:10:34. > :10:39.there a difference between how people consume media on mobile
:10:40. > :10:44.devices or internet or... What kind of differentiation are you beginning
:10:45. > :10:48.to see? Definitely. I think because on mobile devices, people are
:10:49. > :10:52.consuming content... In the past, people were looking at a computer
:10:53. > :10:57.most of the time but now when they are on the road, in the morning, we
:10:58. > :11:01.see traffic spikes. Mobile devices in the morning, then they go back to
:11:02. > :11:07.the office and it's PC again, till lunchtime when the mobile comes out
:11:08. > :11:13.and in the evening, it's tablet. You see different devices shifting the
:11:14. > :11:15.user consumption of media. So that becomes very important for the
:11:16. > :11:18.publishers and for the content providers alike, to think of how you
:11:19. > :11:25.configure your content into different scenarios, different sizes
:11:26. > :11:28.of screen. And therefore to be able to capture the right moment of the
:11:29. > :11:34.consumer as they're consuming the content. This is really a big
:11:35. > :11:38.question for you, isn't it, Scott? How do you tailor the content keep
:11:39. > :11:42.the viewers coming back? Yeah, and this notion of figuring out what the
:11:43. > :11:48.main platform is at any moment is so key. And the web, if anything, is in
:11:49. > :11:51.a constant state of change. Right now, for a lot of publishers,
:11:52. > :11:55.Facebook is a very powerful platform. It might be the case that
:11:56. > :11:58.that's true in five years or it might be that a service like
:11:59. > :12:01.WhatsApp comes along and supplants the way that people are sharing
:12:02. > :12:05.things. Those are services that align as well are growing
:12:06. > :12:09.massively, especially in Asia. So as a publisher, we need to really pay a
:12:10. > :12:14.lot of attention to what people are using and learn to adapt to new
:12:15. > :12:20.platforms. How do you make money off of social media? How do you think
:12:21. > :12:22.money off of what you do? `` make money. That's an excellent
:12:23. > :12:24.question. For Buzzfeed, our primary advertising, and our only
:12:25. > :12:28.advertising product, is social advertising. So the ad is actually a
:12:29. > :12:31.unit of content. We charge advertisers to display it on
:12:32. > :12:36.Buzzfeed but then we give them a social list, which is people sharing
:12:37. > :12:39.it. So it actually works very well because it's the atomised unit of
:12:40. > :12:50.content that can go on Twitter, go on Facebook. It shares really easily
:12:51. > :12:57.across a wide range of platforms. How do you make money off social
:12:58. > :13:02.media? So our advertising is where we work with the clients. And one of
:13:03. > :13:09.the important trends that we have seen is the need of advertising,
:13:10. > :13:16.similar to Scott, is the social ad for Buzzfeed, for Yahoo where
:13:17. > :13:19.developing Mac of his instrument advertising as the user is looking
:13:20. > :13:23.at the streaming content and you have native advertising which is
:13:24. > :13:28.personalised. Once again personalisation comes in. If the ad
:13:29. > :13:33.is personal it is talking to you. A user is more likely to share it. We
:13:34. > :13:37.can utilise the social media to amplify the advertiser's impact.
:13:38. > :13:43.When the advertisers are programmed in a way that is actually personal.
:13:44. > :13:48.So going native advertising is a big trend for the industry and certainly
:13:49. > :13:50.for Yahoo as well. Local `based advertising. And also when you think
:13:51. > :13:54.about advertising, really putting the consumer first. Because I think
:13:55. > :13:57.a lot of criticism of some of the online advertising in the past has
:13:58. > :14:03.been this super obtrusive advertising that flies into action
:14:04. > :14:06.across your website. All I want to do is check my e`mail, why am by
:14:07. > :14:08.watching this ad? And really consumers are super open and
:14:09. > :14:15.receptive to brands reaching them online, if it is reached to them in
:14:16. > :14:19.an additive way to their experience. So a lot of what we are focused on,
:14:20. > :14:21.with a lot of partners in the industry, is how you make
:14:22. > :14:24.advertising online immersive, beautiful, engaging, which is going
:14:25. > :14:32.to benefit the consumer but also in the end the advertiser. Is it
:14:33. > :14:34.lucrative? It's very much can be. It is actually getting more lucrative
:14:35. > :14:38.because advertisers are getting better lift for their advertising
:14:39. > :14:42.message. Advertisers would argue that lucrative is one thing but
:14:43. > :14:47.being more effective... The nice thing about digital advertising is
:14:48. > :14:49.it is very measurable. This is what advertisers really enjoy about
:14:50. > :14:55.advertising online, the ability to measure. They start to be able to
:14:56. > :14:58.calculate ROI in a very meaningful way. Return on their investment.
:14:59. > :15:00.Often times when people talk about personalised advertising, I can
:15:01. > :15:05.already hear people I know saying that sounds like they are taking my
:15:06. > :15:08.personal data. I don't know if I want them to take my personal data,
:15:09. > :15:11.I am surfing the web. I don't necessarily want my data to be
:15:12. > :15:17.collected and then, you know, sent back at me in terms of advertising.
:15:18. > :15:20.What do you say to that? Well, you know, on the one hand obviously
:15:21. > :15:23.privacy is something that is terribly important. It has recently
:15:24. > :15:27.become a large part of the conversation about people living
:15:28. > :15:30.their lives online. At the same time, it is certainly in the
:15:31. > :15:35.interest of any advertiser that uses personalisation to make sure that
:15:36. > :15:38.data is kept very, very safe. And as long as it is providing a clearly
:15:39. > :15:45.useful service for them, I think that they will be OK with that
:15:46. > :15:47.trade`off. As long as they feel safe and protected and are getting
:15:48. > :15:51.something out of sharing their data, as they often do. And people love
:15:52. > :15:54.Facebook, which has a lot of their data, because it provides them a
:15:55. > :15:58.valuable service... I think as long as there is a good balance there, it
:15:59. > :16:05.is going to be something people feel OK with. It is absolutely critical.
:16:06. > :16:12.I think any reputable company We'll take privacy of users in the highest
:16:13. > :16:17.regard. It is very critical. We keep it as the first priority. At the
:16:18. > :16:21.same time, we absolutely see the user wanting to see content as
:16:22. > :16:26.relative to them as possible. They do not want to be thrown a massive
:16:27. > :16:29.bit of information without any concern for what interests them.
:16:30. > :16:36.Personalisation is adding value to the users but of course the privacy
:16:37. > :16:41.is, I think, absolutely, for any other companies, absolutely treated
:16:42. > :16:45.with the very highest regard. It is number one priority. I think both of
:16:46. > :16:50.it is also make sure that you can put the consumer of the media in
:16:51. > :16:54.control of their privacy. And that is a very big part of where we are
:16:55. > :16:58.focused, through all of the software that we deliver on devices and
:16:59. > :17:02.online, on making sure that we help consumers understand how they can be
:17:03. > :17:10.in control of the privacy settings and Italy education to empower them.
:17:11. > :17:14.That was rose from Yahoo, Adam from Microsoft advertising and a
:17:15. > :17:19.representative from Busby. Utterances are moving minors. You
:17:20. > :17:24.have probably heard of Bitcoin, especially in the past two months.
:17:25. > :17:32.`` currencies are moving online. It is not without controversy and I
:17:33. > :17:36.spoke to a representative from the Bitcoin Foundation and started by
:17:37. > :17:41.asking him whether it can be considered a real currency. I would
:17:42. > :17:47.consider Bitcoin to be a new asset class. Not particularly exactly like
:17:48. > :17:51.anything else. And so when we use the word currency, we often talk
:17:52. > :17:55.about something backed by a government of some sort. Although in
:17:56. > :18:00.England and many other countries, there is a long history of local
:18:01. > :18:03.currencies were some institution or group of people will provide some
:18:04. > :18:08.backing to something. I think it is more interesting to ask whether it
:18:09. > :18:14.is a good value or store of value is. That is a good point about straw
:18:15. > :18:20.of value. If I were an online shop, while it except Bitcoin for payment
:18:21. > :18:25.as the value can fluctuate? That is something that online store owners
:18:26. > :18:30.think a lot about. It turns out that Colin users, is no reason, is that
:18:31. > :18:39.it calling orders shops that excepted. `` Bitcoin users love
:18:40. > :18:43.shops that excepted. A website recently started to accept it and
:18:44. > :18:49.have $1 million worth of purchases in the first month. If you want to
:18:50. > :18:53.hate all of your bets and that this interest, you can do this. However,
:18:54. > :18:58.as the currency has gone up so much in value, some owners that have held
:18:59. > :19:02.onto it have become very wealthy and that could be an incentive for some
:19:03. > :19:07.merchants as well. But there have been instances of theft because you
:19:08. > :19:12.can hack into the algorithm, can you not? There have been cases of
:19:13. > :19:20.Bitcoins being lost, stolen... Absolutely. We do not know of any
:19:21. > :19:22.circumstances where are the core technology was compromised but it
:19:23. > :19:28.turns out that if you are willing to trust someone with your Bitcoin is,
:19:29. > :19:32.that may not be well placed. In such a young industry, there are of
:19:33. > :19:36.course some very high`profile situations where perhaps someone
:19:37. > :19:40.lost coins, perhaps they were just taken. It can be hard to tell. I
:19:41. > :19:48.would think that as a virtual currency or asset class, protecting
:19:49. > :19:55.it before people put in money to buy Bitcoins, that has got to be a
:19:56. > :19:58.paramount issue, is it not? Yes. That would limit the expansion if
:19:59. > :20:02.people did not feel like they can trust that they are not going to
:20:03. > :20:10.lose money. I think that is right. There can be real consumer harm as
:20:11. > :20:13.well. We are talking on the one hand how the technology grows but there
:20:14. > :20:16.is also the question of how consumers can be protected if they
:20:17. > :20:22.engage. I think that is almost more important. There are probably a few
:20:23. > :20:26.million people worldwide right now that use Bitcoin and it is a little
:20:27. > :20:29.bit like an insane religious army, working on all these different
:20:30. > :20:34.things all at the time and many are working on just that question. How
:20:35. > :20:40.to make it safer and easier to use. I think that will get solved. Where
:20:41. > :20:42.do you see the regulation changing around the world? Are there
:20:43. > :20:48.particular countries that are doing it well and some that are not? I
:20:49. > :20:53.think we have got Germany taking a good and early evenhanded approach.
:20:54. > :20:56.We saw the UK doing nicely also. We actually have some regulation that
:20:57. > :21:00.was not very thin bull and then reversed it in the last month or so.
:21:01. > :21:05.We have taken a different approach. `` very sensible. The US Federal
:21:06. > :21:09.government has been amazingly open and worked with Bitcoin in general
:21:10. > :21:13.to try to work out how it all fits. I think the countries that do that
:21:14. > :21:25.will be in some early rewards. They will see capital inflow and on
:21:26. > :21:29.communal info. Will past experiences hampered the development of
:21:30. > :21:31.exchanges in the future? I do not think so. I think that if you took
:21:32. > :21:39.somebody with any market background and they looked at a previous online
:21:40. > :21:45.currency, they would have been horrified. That is an outcome they
:21:46. > :21:51.would have expected all. It was really quite lucrative for the
:21:52. > :21:56.founders and so we know that markets that can aggregate liquidity do in
:21:57. > :22:01.fact tend to do very well over time. I think as far as money coming into
:22:02. > :22:07.the Bitcoin on Tuesdays, I think it is likely to push it along because
:22:08. > :22:16.there is this large incumbents out of the space. That was Peter of the
:22:17. > :22:19.Bitcoin Foundation. Whether it is fast changing technology or social
:22:20. > :22:22.media, companies are having to think differently about how to connect
:22:23. > :22:26.with consumers online. With brands and advertisers, creating a
:22:27. > :22:31.connection with people seems to be the key. That is all we have time
:22:32. > :22:34.for this week. Check out our website and add me on Twitter. Join me next
:22:35. > :22:43.week for more talking business with me.
:22:44. > :22:48.Good evening. It is pleasant enough in the sunshine at the moment.
:22:49. > :22:54.Temperatures reached 18 degrees in parts of England Scotland but they
:22:55. > :22:57.will not have to drop away over the evening and overnight. It is going
:22:58. > :23:01.to be a mother Shelly won but the frost perhaps not as extensive as
:23:02. > :23:03.last night, particularly across England and Wales. `` it is going to
:23:04. > :23:06.be another chilly night.