:00:00. > :00:07.questioned on suspicion of murder. Now I'm BBC News, Talking Business
:00:08. > :00:12.with Linda Yueh. Where is the real money being made in show business?
:00:13. > :00:17.We hear from the stars of X`Men, a comic book turned into a movie. It
:00:18. > :00:22.has made millions and not just from cinema tickets. Here in Singapore,
:00:23. > :00:40.this is Talking Business with Linda Yueh.
:00:41. > :00:50.A warm welcome to the programme. Manny is made not just from the box
:00:51. > :00:54.office. `` money. Merchandise and distribution deals make up a
:00:55. > :00:58.significant part of the Prophet, especially for movies made based on
:00:59. > :01:03.comic books. So what is it about comic book characters that has such
:01:04. > :01:15.enduring appeal? I caught up with Hugh Jackman, Wolverine, to find
:01:16. > :01:24.out. Can we change our fate? When X`Men came out there was no comic
:01:25. > :01:28.book genre. This was before Kat Mang `` Spiderman. I think the movies
:01:29. > :01:31.have got over the top with spectacle and characters, but what they did
:01:32. > :01:36.really well in the first X`Men and what has been done even better here,
:01:37. > :01:39.is concentrating on character. Not just their superhuman abilities but
:01:40. > :01:44.their human frailties and that is what makes people connect ultimately
:01:45. > :01:48.to the stories and the characters, as well as great spectacle and
:01:49. > :01:51.action and people being blue and claws coming out of their hands and
:01:52. > :01:55.all that. Really it is about character.
:01:56. > :01:58.There have been a lot of comic book movies that have come out. Is it
:01:59. > :02:05.because of something that connects even adults to children, do you
:02:06. > :02:09.think? Not all of them are entirely character driven. I have seen it
:02:10. > :02:21.appeal to people of all ages, not just comic book fans either. X`Men
:02:22. > :02:26.has always had classic themes. It was originally based on Martin
:02:27. > :02:31.Luther King and Malcolm X and it is about acceptance and tolerance and
:02:32. > :02:37.redemption, second chances. Really great themes. I am proud to be part
:02:38. > :02:40.of a movie that is, yes, a summer popcorn blockbuster movie but that
:02:41. > :02:44.actually have something to say. My son saw this when he was 14 and he
:02:45. > :02:49.saw the sentinels in the whole thing and he asked if it was about climate
:02:50. > :02:53.change. I said what do you mean? The idea we might miss the moment and it
:02:54. > :02:57.will be too late in history and 60 years down the track we will say, if
:02:58. > :03:02.only we could have gone back to this moment. I had not thought of that
:03:03. > :03:06.but I love being in a movie that even prompts 14`year`olds to think
:03:07. > :03:10.more. You have played this character for over a decade. What makes you
:03:11. > :03:14.keep coming back to this same character? I really love this
:03:15. > :03:20.character. What about the work`out regime? That is hard and getting
:03:21. > :03:24.harder by the year! And I am really competitive with myself and tough on
:03:25. > :03:28.myself. He has got to look better and I take the physicality of him
:03:29. > :03:32.very seriously because he is an animalistic character. I want to
:03:33. > :03:39.portray that. I don't want people to think that Wolverine hit the gym. I
:03:40. > :03:44.want people to think of his ferocity, that he is animalistic.
:03:45. > :03:48.That is part of his DNA, I think. I complain about it all the time. My
:03:49. > :03:52.wife doesn't listen to me any more. She used to say poor thing and now
:03:53. > :03:59.she kicks me out of bed. You love it, get out of here! For all his
:04:00. > :04:07.toughness, the dirty Harry, the hand Solo, mad Max, there is a lot
:04:08. > :04:11.underneath, pain and regret. 200 years old. There is a hell of a lot
:04:12. > :04:17.to find in him and in this movie it is a completely different side of
:04:18. > :04:22.him. He has TB the pacifier and the diplomat and he is the one doing the
:04:23. > :04:29.recruiting not being recruited. `` he has to be the pacifier. When you
:04:30. > :04:32.cast you had not done a big movie franchise. I had not done a big
:04:33. > :04:38.movie, period. My first American movie, yes. In that sense, do you
:04:39. > :04:44.think it is important to think about franchises for actors like you and
:04:45. > :04:49.the associated merchandising and licensing. There is quite a lot that
:04:50. > :04:53.goes around the franchises. Have you found as you have entered this path
:04:54. > :04:58.that it is more important to think about checking your figurine, making
:04:59. > :05:03.sure you have licensing and parts of that covered? It is not important.
:05:04. > :05:08.It is probably smart to do that and be aware of it. Every movie that
:05:09. > :05:16.comes out, people say it is a franchise movie, we plan three.
:05:17. > :05:19.Everybody wants that. Audiences really like familiarity and the
:05:20. > :05:23.stories and characters and they want to see them again, which makes
:05:24. > :05:29.sense. It has probably always been that way. Even Shakespeare. Henry
:05:30. > :05:36.IV, parts one and to. It is not a new idea. You have to keep on
:05:37. > :05:42.reinventing the characters and finding different sides to them but
:05:43. > :05:46.the business has changed a lot. 15 years ago great movies were made and
:05:47. > :05:50.they did not often think about doing another one. Now any good movie is
:05:51. > :05:54.about how to spin it off, even if it doesn't deserve or warrant it
:05:55. > :06:01.really. All the merchandising, I have made some mistakes. I don't
:06:02. > :06:05.want to say who came in, but someone came into my trailer on the first
:06:06. > :06:10.X`Men and asked me to say a few lines and they had a little
:06:11. > :06:14.microphone and a page of lines. Things like, this kit will take you
:06:15. > :06:19.down. I am going to slice you in half. I read them out and a year
:06:20. > :06:24.later there was a bunch of toys with my voice in them. That would not
:06:25. > :06:30.happen now. Now a lawyer would step in and all of that. At the end of
:06:31. > :06:34.the day, I say it is not important because it doesn't make your career.
:06:35. > :06:40.It can certainly help, it can give you some security, particularly
:06:41. > :06:45.internationally. But if you focus too much on that, you get away from
:06:46. > :06:50.why we all got into this in the first place, you know? Playing
:06:51. > :06:53.characters, telling great stories. If you become a person that does not
:06:54. > :06:58.really love storytelling and does not have something to say, you will
:06:59. > :07:03.probably have a short career anyway. You mentioned your kids. Who is
:07:04. > :07:12.their favourite X`Men character? My son's favourite is the one from the
:07:13. > :07:15.second X`Men who vamps. I love being here but I would not mind being able
:07:16. > :07:21.to pick up my son or daughter just like that. My daughter particularly
:07:22. > :07:26.loves Quiksilver in this movie, who I think will become a big favourite
:07:27. > :07:32.for many people. I think it is one of the best movie scenes that I have
:07:33. > :07:38.seen in a long time. Not watering? If it is, they would not tell me. ``
:07:39. > :07:46.not Wolverine. You know kids, they will not hand it over to their dad
:07:47. > :07:50.that quickly! Successful franchises on TV also make money from
:07:51. > :07:56.merchandising and licensing. I caught up with Peter, the start of
:07:57. > :08:00.the small and big screen, in Game Of Thrones and X`Men, to asking whether
:08:01. > :08:07.the audience is different for TV versus the movies. Good afternoon,
:08:08. > :08:14.everyone. Hello and thank you for coming. TV has really advanced, at
:08:15. > :08:21.least in America, in the last few years. For the most part because it
:08:22. > :08:26.has attracted great writers. They have realised that TV has become a
:08:27. > :08:33.medium where they have more and more creative control. That shows in the
:08:34. > :08:37.material, the end product. How important is it for actors to be
:08:38. > :08:46.part of big franchises these days? That depends on the franchise. They
:08:47. > :08:50.are not all of this quality. I think we are just big kids. It is so much
:08:51. > :08:58.fun to play dress up and this is the ultimate chance to do something like
:08:59. > :09:01.this and the make up and all of it. It is the movie that when you are
:09:02. > :09:08.kit you wait for the summertime, not just because you are out of school.
:09:09. > :09:15.`` when you are child. Star Wars was life changing as a child. Hopefully
:09:16. > :09:25.with films like this we can come close to doing that. It is not just
:09:26. > :09:37.children. It is also adults. Sure. This is darker. A much darker theme.
:09:38. > :09:43.What is the enduring appeal of comedy book and fantasy characters?
:09:44. > :09:49.At some point in everyone's life they have felt like an outsider, or
:09:50. > :09:53.to varying degrees just misunderstood, ashamed of certain
:09:54. > :09:59.aspects of themselves, whether they be positive or negative, and I think
:10:00. > :10:09.the superheroes, these characters here, they just represent that. To
:10:10. > :10:11.the extreme, obviously, but they speak to that. I think that is a
:10:12. > :10:23.pretty universal thing. When you are looking at these
:10:24. > :10:26.movies, choosing these movies, how important is it for the franchise to
:10:27. > :10:33.negotiate the merchandising and licensing as well for what you do? I
:10:34. > :10:45.have a guy who is amazing who does all that stuff for me. That is
:10:46. > :10:51.extra. That is padding around the core of the reason why I do these
:10:52. > :10:55.things. It is important these days. It is and there are people who are
:10:56. > :11:00.smart and know how to do it and profit from it but one thing at the
:11:01. > :11:04.time for me! This is the ultimate question. Do you have a final check
:11:05. > :11:10.on any likeness of you that goes out from the franchises? Yes. They do
:11:11. > :11:17.allow us to look at weird stalls and plastic figurines. A lot has been
:11:18. > :11:20.made of the characters on Game Of Thrones and my friends have a lot of
:11:21. > :11:27.fun emailing me the newest caricatures and everything, whether
:11:28. > :11:30.it is a child's toy. I don't know why the Game Of Thrones they are
:11:31. > :11:36.making figurines for children because I don't know what child is
:11:37. > :11:46.watching this. Mine has a scar on its face but they do. They run it by
:11:47. > :11:51.us. There is a new enemy out there, you
:11:52. > :11:59.will need a new weapon for this war. So what is the money being made from
:12:00. > :12:11.merchandising? Money from TV and video games generated $50 billion
:12:12. > :12:18.from retail sales in 20 T 13. That means millions in royalty payments
:12:19. > :12:24.alone. Manga is a $6 billion a year global industry. It is not just
:12:25. > :12:28.figurines, sales of licensed product hit 100 million last year. The
:12:29. > :12:33.biggest licensed served is Disney which accounts for 80% of the market
:12:34. > :12:44.with its ownership of Marvel and the Star Wars movies. Warner Brothers is
:12:45. > :12:47.the next biggest. For some, film franchises, merchandising is a
:12:48. > :12:56.greater revenue generator than ticket sales. Joining me to discuss
:12:57. > :13:12.the business end of movies are the founder of the production 's green
:13:13. > :13:20.will stop ``. And a director from Hong Kong. Welcome to both of you.
:13:21. > :13:27.Calvin, let me start with you. Do you have to have a big franchise in
:13:28. > :13:30.order to make money from movies, real money, we are talking the
:13:31. > :13:40.ability to license. You are making an independent film. I do agree with
:13:41. > :13:43.you broadly that the bigger the movie, the bigger its advertising
:13:44. > :13:49.budget and that is why you see franchises like the X`Men,
:13:50. > :13:53.Twilight. These type of films are those which generally make a lot of
:13:54. > :13:58.money. It takes money to make money and advertising is expensive. But I
:13:59. > :14:02.do think there is still a niche in the market for smaller films. I
:14:03. > :14:07.don't think every movie go out there is a 12`year`old. So I think as long
:14:08. > :14:10.as you can keep your costs within reason and more importantly, if you
:14:11. > :14:15.have a very good script, I still think there is a place for such
:14:16. > :14:22.films in the business place. Do you agree? Your film was critically
:14:23. > :14:26.acclaimed. It is not a big franchise with action figures attached to it.
:14:27. > :14:37.In York business mix, how many of those would you do and how many
:14:38. > :14:42.franchise movies would you do? It is a hit in this affair. You do
:14:43. > :14:45.something like it because as Kelvin said, there is something in your
:14:46. > :14:49.heart you want to write about and how the story. But how well the
:14:50. > :14:57.audience will receive it is hard to say. I do not think we are making
:14:58. > :15:00.very much money. It is great that we won a lot of prizes and it gives a
:15:01. > :15:07.lot of people the reputation to carry on, but in terms of monetary
:15:08. > :15:11.return, not that much. I just want to jump in. While it is true the big
:15:12. > :15:15.films make money, it is also true that big films lose a lot of money
:15:16. > :15:19.as well. I think we have been talking about the success stories.
:15:20. > :15:23.For everyone hit that Hollywood makes, I think easily there are nine
:15:24. > :15:29.or ten that fail. I think looking at just budget size, how star`studded
:15:30. > :15:35.it is, is only part of the equation. At the end of the day, I think a
:15:36. > :15:41.movie still has to capture the audience imaginations with things
:15:42. > :15:47.like originality and quality. I want to move into TV. These days it is
:15:48. > :15:52.very multimedia. Cinema is not the only entertainment form. As a
:15:53. > :15:56.producer, would you have to move more towards multimedia platforms in
:15:57. > :16:01.the future, whether it is adapting something for TV or even online.
:16:02. > :16:08.Some very successful TV series are just online like House of Cards. As
:16:09. > :16:13.a producer you have to go for many channels. That is not just have to
:16:14. > :16:19.be multimedia or TV. One channel I have been hoping to break into is
:16:20. > :16:23.the airline channel. Look at some numbers. Singapore airlines carries
:16:24. > :16:28.18 to 20 million passengers a year. When you sit in a plane you have
:16:29. > :16:33.nowhere to go. And what do you do? You watch movies. So just think some
:16:34. > :16:40.numbers. 18 million passengers a year, half of them watch movies.
:16:41. > :16:46.They watch an average of two movies. So let's lay Singapore airlines
:16:47. > :16:53.every year have 20 million moviegoers. You can make a lot of
:16:54. > :16:57.money than having your movie distributed in the normal cinema
:16:58. > :17:04.chain. That is a new way of looking at it. Kelvin, is that your future,
:17:05. > :17:13.making movies for say airlines or are you still more of a traditional
:17:14. > :17:17.cinema type of film maker? I think as a film`maker I welcome every
:17:18. > :17:22.additional channel there is for revenue. But I do think we are going
:17:23. > :17:28.through a change right now. It used to be that the traditional multiplex
:17:29. > :17:34.cinemas are where most of the profits are made. But I think today
:17:35. > :17:36.with Internet and the way that people are expecting their
:17:37. > :17:42.entertainment to be streamed to them, I think that avenue, there is
:17:43. > :17:47.a lot more to be explored and right now, I do not think there is a very
:17:48. > :17:52.good way of monetising it yet, but I think in the coming years we are
:17:53. > :17:58.going to see a lot of innovations in that respect and hopefully, that
:17:59. > :18:02.will claw back a lot more lost revenues for film`makers. Do you
:18:03. > :18:07.agree, do think that is the future? Let's put it this way. Calvin, you
:18:08. > :18:10.and artist. You want to do something close to your own heart. When you
:18:11. > :18:14.talk about making money, I think that is a very different
:18:15. > :18:19.perspective. You can make a lot of money now in movies, if you're
:18:20. > :18:23.willing to put in some kind of advertising. Product placement
:18:24. > :18:26.advertising in a subtle way, as long as there is enough advertisers to
:18:27. > :18:30.help you go on, the box office really doesn't matter very much. If
:18:31. > :18:33.you know that the movie is going to be watched by 100 million people,
:18:34. > :18:40.can you imagine that if you promise an advertiser, I have 100 million
:18:41. > :18:44.items, I do not need to collect money from tickets. If that affects
:18:45. > :18:48.the way you want to tell the story, that affects art, that is quite a
:18:49. > :18:53.different thing. But for the movie industry as a whole, especially for
:18:54. > :18:57.the Hollywood movie, they are all moving towards mass consumption,
:18:58. > :19:04.which means a lot of advertising, subtle or not subtle. Product
:19:05. > :19:10.placement in your movies, does that feel a little like you are selling
:19:11. > :19:15.out your artistic soul? Not at all. If you're making bread personal
:19:16. > :19:19.film, I think that could be a little intrusive but you're making
:19:20. > :19:23.something like X`Men or Mission Impossible, I think sports cars get
:19:24. > :19:29.it very well. It depends on what you are doing. Let me ask you about TV.
:19:30. > :19:34.You mention monetising different streams. How does TV fit in? There
:19:35. > :19:40.have been some pretty big franchises on TV and it is cheaper to make. TV
:19:41. > :19:44.is very exciting right now. In America, if you look at the TV
:19:45. > :19:48.industry compared to the film industry, the TV industry,
:19:49. > :19:51.particular cable, is very healthy right now in America. One,
:19:52. > :19:55.television production is a lot cheaper than film production,
:19:56. > :20:00.therefore, in terms of content and ideas, the storytellers take more
:20:01. > :20:05.risk and as a result, find more audiences. The other reason why I
:20:06. > :20:11.think television is very healthy compared to the film business in our
:20:12. > :20:16.car, is because cable TV enjoys a ratings system that is a lot freer
:20:17. > :20:21.than the ratings system museums and are. As a result, Hollywood studios
:20:22. > :20:27.tend to make films that appeal to eight`year`olds. But if we look at
:20:28. > :20:33.the big hits on cable TV like a macro game of Thrones or Homeland,
:20:34. > :20:37.the ratings are a lot looser so they can tackle a subject matter that is
:20:38. > :20:40.more controversial. If you look at the success of those television
:20:41. > :20:46.productions, it is break clear there is a demand for that because the
:20:47. > :20:50.viewership numbers are incredible. What do you think? I would like to
:20:51. > :20:54.bring in a termite borrowed from some Chinese friends of mine. They
:20:55. > :21:00.are talking about a fragmented time economy. What that means is your
:21:01. > :21:06.time is basically fragmented now today by e`mails, SMS, whatever. You
:21:07. > :21:10.do not really have the time to do something that takes a long time.
:21:11. > :21:16.For example, to watch a movie now with my wife, we have to plan, do be
:21:17. > :21:20.bringing dinner, do we want to change our programme? In the old
:21:21. > :21:25.days you just used to watch a movie, you do not think twice. Now there
:21:26. > :21:30.are so much interruption. So in response, what most people do is
:21:31. > :21:35.they will go home, watch download which you don't pay, or they watch
:21:36. > :21:38.something fit into their busy schedule which is why YouTube is so
:21:39. > :21:43.popular because you can watch for three minutes and walk away. So TV
:21:44. > :21:47.is obviously more suited to the fragmented time economy than movies
:21:48. > :21:51.because it is shorter. But even then, they are getting to the point
:21:52. > :21:56.where people do not want to watch 20 or 30 episode TV, they want to watch
:21:57. > :22:00.12 episode TV. Anything that requires a long time commitment,
:22:01. > :22:06.they do not want to do it. TV is good but again, the boundaries are
:22:07. > :22:13.getting smaller. Very interesting. Thank you both very much indeed.
:22:14. > :22:16.Movies make money, not just by selling cinematic bits. It is
:22:17. > :22:24.particularly the case for movies linked to the comic book market.
:22:25. > :22:27.Products and figures are bigger source of profits than the box
:22:28. > :22:32.office, but to sell the goods, they still need to get all of us into the
:22:33. > :22:38.cinema. That is all we have time for. Check out our website and me on
:22:39. > :22:40.Twitter. Join me for more Talking Business next time with me, Linda
:22:41. > :22:59.Yueh. Hello. There are changes on the way
:23:00. > :23:04.for some of us tomorrow where we have the best of the Sun tried to
:23:05. > :23:05.the north and west of the UK, there will be more cloud