:00:00. > :00:08.Now on BBC News it's Talking Business.
:00:09. > :00:14.Hello, I'm in Mumbai, the economic capital of India, country with a
:00:15. > :00:18.conundrum, every month the medium people come onto the jobs market
:00:19. > :00:21.here, but employers complain they can't find people with the skills
:00:22. > :00:25.they need, so what is going wrong and what can be done about it? That
:00:26. > :00:48.is what we are discussing on this weeks Talking Business.
:00:49. > :00:56.A couple of months ago India's Prime Minister launched an initiative
:00:57. > :01:00.called Skills India, with one clear ambition, to make hundreds of
:01:01. > :01:05.millions of Indians more employable. It is an enormous problem, it is
:01:06. > :01:09.estimated that fewer than 5% of India's 487 million workforce have
:01:10. > :01:15.received formal skills training, and in other countries that figure is
:01:16. > :01:19.closer to 60% and youth unemployment in India is high at 12.9%. In the
:01:20. > :01:23.programme's first year the government hopes to provide skills
:01:24. > :01:29.to 2.4 million young people and in the long-term these Skills India
:01:30. > :01:34.mission hopes to give 3 million Indians with practical skills by
:01:35. > :01:37.2022. The problem is so bad that one industry boss recently said India
:01:38. > :01:41.doesn't have an unemployment problem, it has an umpire billeted
:01:42. > :01:45.problem, and to discuss some of these issues we are at the
:01:46. > :01:49.University which has causes ranging from engineering, architecture,
:01:50. > :01:52.business management, to name a few, and later on we will talk to some
:01:53. > :01:59.students, but before that we can meet our panel. The Abbey managing
:02:00. > :02:10.director of an engineering company -- we have. And the chief executive
:02:11. > :02:16.of our -- and IT training funds. Do you agree with that? India does have
:02:17. > :02:22.an unemployable problem, and I think there is a lot of people like us who
:02:23. > :02:25.want to hire workers and staff, but we don't have the right candidates.
:02:26. > :02:29.Is that when you have companies coming to you looking for the right
:02:30. > :02:35.people, is it very often that you find this massive mismatch, because
:02:36. > :02:42.people graduating to not really fit into the job profile that companies
:02:43. > :02:46.have? Yes and no. To a large extent, there are company expectations which
:02:47. > :02:52.are very specific, and there is talent which is also very specific,
:02:53. > :02:56.and they do not always meet. It is about the economy being slightly
:02:57. > :02:59.polarise, there are aspects which do very well, the business
:03:00. > :03:02.intelligence, for example, and sales and marketing, and there is another
:03:03. > :03:07.side of the economy which is lacking. That is where you have
:03:08. > :03:10.the other side you have less apply the other side you have less apply
:03:11. > :03:14.and that is where you have more expensive talent and sometimes no
:03:15. > :03:17.talent at all. Why is that happening? You have a massive
:03:18. > :03:22.population, great young population. Everyone talks about what they read
:03:23. > :03:28.opportunity this is for India, but we are not utilising that. There is
:03:29. > :03:36.a lot of sense to this problem, of why this problem has arisen. One,
:03:37. > :03:41.quality of education training, two, I would there to say, and the
:03:42. > :03:46.robust policy of engaging with robust policy of engaging with
:03:47. > :03:55.economics and also internships. In many countries, 90% of kids do some
:03:56. > :03:59.vocational training, internships. The percentage in India is in single
:04:00. > :04:03.digits. And then we have the bomber with teachers and trainings. We need
:04:04. > :04:09.to million trainers by the year 2020. You have three factories, you
:04:10. > :04:12.employ around 100 engineers who have gone through a four-year course.
:04:13. > :04:18.When you recruit them, can you put them on the job directly? No, we
:04:19. > :04:21.can't, and I will go back to what I said about unemployable ante, we
:04:22. > :04:25.have the issue with engineers who do not want to work on the shop floor
:04:26. > :04:28.and they don't want to blacken their hands. They want to work in the
:04:29. > :04:32.office and they want to push papers, but we don't have the issue with the
:04:33. > :04:37.blue-collar, because they want a job and they want a secure job and they
:04:38. > :04:41.want to work. And a salary. We have this issue of engineers not really
:04:42. > :04:45.coming onto the shop floor, so that is an issue. Do you think people
:04:46. > :04:50.that are graduating from their degree courses have unrealistic
:04:51. > :04:57.expectations? I think they do. There is a lot of internet and information
:04:58. > :05:01.available, and there are aspirations which are sky high, but I don't know
:05:02. > :05:11.if the attitude is a measure. We are OK with employing rural India which
:05:12. > :05:15.has normal aspirations and let India be hired by these white-collar IT
:05:16. > :05:20.guys. This is the aspiration of a country where you want jobs for
:05:21. > :05:25.everyone, but there is the aspiration of the young generation,
:05:26. > :05:31.they don't seem to match. Culprits are not able to -- if culprits are
:05:32. > :05:34.not able to match aspirations, we are not fulfilling our duty and we
:05:35. > :05:40.will not get the best of talents. The best of talent wants to join the
:05:41. > :05:44.new age economy, that is the aspiration, and if you are not in
:05:45. > :05:49.that space the other companies have got to create an environment which
:05:50. > :05:53.somehow matches and closes the gap between the aspiration and the
:05:54. > :05:58.reality. Is industry doing enough to solve this? Yes, the government has
:05:59. > :06:02.a role, and must play a role, but at the end of the day, private industry
:06:03. > :06:08.also needs to get involved, is it doing enough at the moment? Now I
:06:09. > :06:14.will say yes and no. The large corporations are growing, a
:06:15. > :06:19.motorcycle manufacturer can increase their production three times and not
:06:20. > :06:22.have any net new employment, why? Because of outsourcing and
:06:23. > :06:26.automation inside, because they are have very smart kids doing that for
:06:27. > :06:31.them. It is the small, medium industries which are to take on the
:06:32. > :06:34.slack in the way they do that, we have people who are contract
:06:35. > :06:41.labourers and that means we do not have any commitment to their job
:06:42. > :06:46.skills and we are not able to train them and we just use them as
:06:47. > :06:52.Labour's, as hands. I don't think we are doing enough, but that is the
:06:53. > :06:57.chain that is developed. I want to give you an example of the armed
:06:58. > :07:01.services in India, they do a great job, taking first graduates, they
:07:02. > :07:09.well oiled machine, with investment and investment and time and money.
:07:10. > :07:13.That is an extreme, I don't think every industry can dedicate that
:07:14. > :07:20.much time, but that is a fantastic example of how an organisation as
:07:21. > :07:24.the commitment to really take a person and make him or herself ready
:07:25. > :07:27.for the job. I want to get the students in, because we are talking
:07:28. > :07:31.about all of these people, undergoing some kind of course, a
:07:32. > :07:36.degree course, they will get a professional qualification. What
:07:37. > :07:40.issue experience? When you are doing your education? Do you fear that
:07:41. > :07:45.there is a mismatch with what you will go out and do in the industry?
:07:46. > :07:50.I would say there is not exactly a mismatch, but I would say it is too
:07:51. > :07:51.focused. We are always in a pharmacy, I'm in a pharmacy course,
:07:52. > :07:58.and we are talking about corporate and we are talking about corporate
:07:59. > :08:02.'s, but pharmacy is a sector, it is health care, hospitals, it is
:08:03. > :08:08.community and much more than what we are drilled about. You are doing a
:08:09. > :08:12.management degree in technical management, do you find enough
:08:13. > :08:19.industry interaction in the course that you are doing? Personally I did
:08:20. > :08:23.and I did civil engineering in the Indian industry, many students do
:08:24. > :08:29.not have the initiatives and the attitude to go out into the industry
:08:30. > :08:32.and do internships, they could get hands-on expense about what is
:08:33. > :08:35.happening at the ground level, that is what we should look for. Do we
:08:36. > :08:41.need a radical change in the education system? The education
:08:42. > :08:45.system works very well, but what we don't have is the diversity that is
:08:46. > :08:50.needed in the education system and we don't have enough liberal arts
:08:51. > :08:55.colleges. We are very excited by the fact that we have 80% of our young
:08:56. > :08:58.population wanting to be engineers, and that's a nice thing on the 1
:08:59. > :09:03.hand, but is that a great thing on the other? So many other industries
:09:04. > :09:08.and sectors are booming, and India is a very diverse country in terms
:09:09. > :09:11.of the economy in that sense. Can we have more diversity and multiplicity
:09:12. > :09:15.in what we are teaching our children? That is a bigger question.
:09:16. > :09:22.Can we see value in that kind of saint? It could be a future
:09:23. > :09:27.potential employee. There is changing, changing mat more rapidly
:09:28. > :09:31.than I thought, five years back, the way we looked at in terms, it was
:09:32. > :09:37.bring some coffee and lick some stamps, but that has changed. Many
:09:38. > :09:41.companies looked at in terms for the best new ideas, and so there are
:09:42. > :09:46.examples of top industrials who have a great idea from an intern. They
:09:47. > :09:49.have access to information just like I have, and it is not as though I'm
:09:50. > :09:55.making a decision based on information which they don't have
:09:56. > :09:58.access to. Actually, in our office, we take in terms, because we think
:09:59. > :10:03.they will come up with bright ideas we have not thought of. Do you take
:10:04. > :10:09.interns at your factory? We do take some, but not enough. We Ray small
:10:10. > :10:14.medium enterprise, and the owner, me, is busy managing day-to-day, but
:10:15. > :10:18.we would like the university to come and talk to us about what the
:10:19. > :10:22.interns, who they concern, and the safety issues and the payment
:10:23. > :10:27.issues. We have signed a memorandum of understanding with the
:10:28. > :10:33.University, which will be operationalised about exchanging
:10:34. > :10:36.their faculty coming to us and also we becoming part of the curriculum
:10:37. > :10:42.and internship, but this is not enough. I'm an enlightened owner,
:10:43. > :10:48.but we can do more, we are not doing enough. Thanks for that, we are here
:10:49. > :10:52.at the University in Mumbai, and studying here is not something
:10:53. > :10:56.everyone wants to do, and many of India's developer will depend on
:10:57. > :10:59.manual or blue-collar jobs, so we have been to meet some of the people
:11:00. > :11:05.looking for exactly that kind of work and asking them what struggles
:11:06. > :11:08.they are facing. Across India, this is a very common sight, people,
:11:09. > :11:13.mainly men, but some women, as welcome awaiting in spots around the
:11:14. > :11:18.cities, looking for work. Commonly known as daily wage workers, they
:11:19. > :11:22.are most likely to find labouring jobs or painting, tiling, basic
:11:23. > :11:28.carpentry, and hey, if you have much training. TRANSLATION: We learn from
:11:29. > :11:33.the seniors on the job, training will make a big difference for us.
:11:34. > :11:37.We were never made aware of getting trained in what we do, and we have
:11:38. > :11:43.just never met anyone who would enlighten us with training. I never
:11:44. > :11:49.got any training, I've been working as a helping construction for the
:11:50. > :11:52.past ten years, sometimes I get work and sometimes there are no jobs. I
:11:53. > :11:59.would like to be trained as that would increase my income. There is
:12:00. > :12:06.no consistency in getting daily jobs, we work two days and then the
:12:07. > :12:08.next two days we are at home. I earn from setting ceramic tiles in
:12:09. > :12:14.building constructions and sometimes I do cleaning jobs, as well, we can
:12:15. > :12:17.earn only from these jobs, on days when we have work we earn in cash,
:12:18. > :12:24.and when we don't get work, we return home. We've had some voices
:12:25. > :12:28.there from the streets of Mumbai, and we know you run three factories,
:12:29. > :12:31.do you get people who are skilled question what do you have to invest
:12:32. > :12:34.time and money into getting somebody in and then training them on the
:12:35. > :12:43.shop floor? This is blue-collar workers. We don't get people who ask
:12:44. > :12:46.ill, we will have to invest time and money to get them trained, and we do
:12:47. > :12:53.that quite well, we have what is called a mentor who takes a trainee
:12:54. > :12:58.or a fresh worker who has probably never been to a factory before, he
:12:59. > :13:00.might have come from an agricultural background, but he wants a job and
:13:01. > :13:06.he wants to stick to that job and have upon the job. We are OK with
:13:07. > :13:11.that. We wish he had skills, but we don't get them. An important
:13:12. > :13:16.question I want to raise, what is the pay scale difference between
:13:17. > :13:20.someone who is a fresh graduate or and someone who has done a more
:13:21. > :13:24.vocational training course and is then working on a factory shop
:13:25. > :13:32.floor? Or doing something which requires proper skills? We are in a
:13:33. > :13:40.tear to city and a fresh graduate, engineer, we would pay around $200,
:13:41. > :13:43.a bit less, and a worker we would pay around $150, so there is not
:13:44. > :13:48.that much difference, if you take 20%, but that is big enough for
:13:49. > :13:52.them. The chances of increment for a worker would be as per the wage
:13:53. > :13:58.agreements, and a casual worker would not be part of the agreement.
:13:59. > :14:02.An engineer could rise depending on their performance pretty soon, or
:14:03. > :14:10.stay middling and then look for a new job. Where is the problem? Too
:14:11. > :14:14.few training schools? And that is why factories like yours find it
:14:15. > :14:19.difficult to find people to work? Or is it because people who can get
:14:20. > :14:23.into those training schools do not prefer to go there as they want to
:14:24. > :14:27.wear a nice shirt and work in a given environment question not there
:14:28. > :14:31.are enough training institutes but the problem is of quality of
:14:32. > :14:34.training, and that is connected to the shortage of teachers, and to my
:14:35. > :14:40.mind that can be solved partly by the use of technology. That is a
:14:41. > :14:45.circle which does get complete. In terms of the entry-level salaries,
:14:46. > :14:50.which you are discussing, those have not increased in the large 3-5
:14:51. > :14:55.years. Mainly due to cost pressure in the industry, so many people
:14:56. > :15:01.chasing a few jobs. One simple statistic, a few months back, the
:15:02. > :15:08.state government advertised for 647 openings, for a runner, someone just
:15:09. > :15:14.picking up documents, and 1.2 million people applied for that. Why
:15:15. > :15:17.is that question not it is quite aspirational to be part of the
:15:18. > :15:23.government for those people. Is there a severe lack of training
:15:24. > :15:29.schools? Statistics are quite poor, there are apparently enough trading
:15:30. > :15:33.schools to train only 1.3 million people and we are talking about 12
:15:34. > :15:38.or 13 million people joining the workforce every year, so that is a
:15:39. > :15:42.gap of what it should be. I think there could be more training
:15:43. > :15:45.institutes, and going back to the polarised economy and the fact that
:15:46. > :15:49.we have so many different sectors within the country. There could be
:15:50. > :15:55.more training institutes in certain sectors and we have, as he said,
:15:56. > :15:58.many schools and engineering colleges, but there are other
:15:59. > :16:03.things, as well. The number of design schools that we have in
:16:04. > :16:08.India, for example, if you do not go to blue-collar, you have a lot of
:16:09. > :16:12.gaps in those areas and I think programmes, for example, that we
:16:13. > :16:17.spoke about earlier, the Skills India programme, we have a skills
:16:18. > :16:20.university that is going anywhere from a politician to a plumber, and
:16:21. > :16:26.for the grey collar worker that is an excellent platform to build out
:16:27. > :16:31.skills and training, and then you distribute it in the Ramon areas of
:16:32. > :16:34.the country, where jobs are of different kinds and you don't have
:16:35. > :16:39.the right training in those areas. Some of the people we spoke to in
:16:40. > :16:42.Mumbai, they said that it was an economic thing, they did not have
:16:43. > :16:47.the money to put themselves through training schools. How do we solve
:16:48. > :16:50.that problem? Clearly there are people that want these jobs, but
:16:51. > :16:59.there are factories which are not able to find the right people.
:17:00. > :17:03.Financing, let's say $200 for a folk Asian or education, sometimes that
:17:04. > :17:07.is not possible, and India is a blackguard in terms of education
:17:08. > :17:13.finance. Any kids wanting to get finance for their education, they
:17:14. > :17:16.have got to give collaterals. Let's say mum or dad does not have
:17:17. > :17:20.collaterals, she cannot get education, but why should that be
:17:21. > :17:24.so? Any circumstances under which she would not mind working with your
:17:25. > :17:28.hands? How can the industry attract you to those kind of jobs question
:17:29. > :17:32.mark at the beginning of year we had a start-up, talking about that and
:17:33. > :17:37.they would speak about how they would give independence to anyone
:17:38. > :17:43.who came in to make decisions, to pick up things and analyse stuff, go
:17:44. > :17:46.out in the market, and then make decisions on themselves, that is
:17:47. > :17:51.very important for us. When we go into a new company, they sort of rob
:17:52. > :17:56.you of your independent thought process. It is very difficult to
:17:57. > :18:05.then fit into that and then move ahead. It is the reality. If the
:18:06. > :18:08.start-up will be a bit different, give me a empowerment to do the
:18:09. > :18:13.stuff that will make a difference. The manufacturing we don't need too
:18:14. > :18:17.many people that are thinking new stuff, we want them to run the
:18:18. > :18:24.machines, so we'll are OK with agricultural people -- we are OK.
:18:25. > :18:28.The bus Wood boss tells you to do this, so do this, we have got to
:18:29. > :18:33.beat the Chinese, right question we don't want entrepreneurs and
:18:34. > :18:36.start-up. You need both of them, you need people that can work in large
:18:37. > :18:41.conglomerates and actually do something that is new and completely
:18:42. > :18:45.ground-breaking, and you also need the newer businesses and the reasons
:18:46. > :18:50.is macro who can differently and do things unshackled, as it might be,
:18:51. > :18:55.but there is no right or wrong, it is not one or the other. Everything
:18:56. > :19:00.coexists and in India we are very lucky that they both coexist. Thanks
:19:01. > :19:04.for being with us. That is almost it in Mumbai, but over the past seven
:19:05. > :19:08.weeks we have looked at a variety of topics and Talking Business from all
:19:09. > :19:16.over the world, and here is our consultant taking a look at what he
:19:17. > :19:19.has found. As usual, I'm here in Dublin, and it can always be
:19:20. > :19:26.difficult to distil huge questions of global business into three-minute
:19:27. > :19:31.bite-size chunks, so I've turned to the master of verbal distillation,
:19:32. > :19:35.Dublin born author Oscar Wilde. Oscar Wilde is one of the most
:19:36. > :19:40.quotable and quoted writers in the English-language. Here are some of
:19:41. > :19:43.his best ones. There's only one thing in the world worse than being
:19:44. > :19:49.talked about, and that is not being talked about. Nothing that is worth
:19:50. > :19:52.knowing can be taught. My favourite quote, is not written here, and that
:19:53. > :19:59.is, it is a very sad thing nowadays that there is so little useless
:20:00. > :20:02.information. I'm hoping to prove here are some of the bits of
:20:03. > :20:06.information I've learned. The robots are coming for your job, but
:20:07. > :20:11.thankfully not my job, but whether or not you like robotic co-workers
:20:12. > :20:14.depends on how lifelike they look. If you take a robot and you make it
:20:15. > :20:19.look more humanlike humans react better all the time. They have a
:20:20. > :20:24.warm fuzzy feeling about the robot, and then it gets to a point where it
:20:25. > :20:27.is quite likely human. And that totally reverses and you feel creeps
:20:28. > :20:39.up by it. Depending on who you talk to, the
:20:40. > :20:45.global economy might be heading for China get on. China is slowing down
:20:46. > :20:48.very quickly, and in Ireland we noticed that, when you slow down
:20:49. > :20:52.from a high growth rate used low down very quickly and you to hit a
:20:53. > :20:57.wall and I think China will go into a massive recession. We found out
:20:58. > :21:02.how something can change the gender balance in the tech business. The
:21:03. > :21:05.tech sector have a light bulb moment where they have got together
:21:06. > :21:09.collectively with senior people to say this is not working and this is
:21:10. > :21:13.not OK, and they are missing out on a pool of talent because they are
:21:14. > :21:19.not encouraging women to progress in careers in technology. What do
:21:20. > :21:26.stallions have in common with discarded fire hoses? It turns out,
:21:27. > :21:32.they both make unexpected exports. Who is this? This is the most
:21:33. > :21:37.lucrative standing wave ever had, we like to think that the thoroughbred
:21:38. > :21:41.is the Ferrari of Ireland. In 2005 we discovered that the fire hose was
:21:42. > :21:47.going to land when it was no longer fit for purpose, and fast that was
:21:48. > :21:56.insane, because this is a beautiful red material and we thought we have
:21:57. > :22:00.got to rescue that. They say that travel broadens the mind. But to be
:22:01. > :22:04.honest, I've managed to get away with broadening my mind slightly, by
:22:05. > :22:09.just pretending to travel. But do you know something? The biggest
:22:10. > :22:13.lesson I've learned in making these talking points, is that it is
:22:14. > :22:18.possible to learn a lot about the global economy without straying very
:22:19. > :22:22.far from my home in Ireland. It turns out that when you are talking
:22:23. > :22:29.business, one country's business is everyone's business. Typically
:22:30. > :22:33.sideways look at business from our comedy consultant, and that is it
:22:34. > :22:37.from, here in Mumbai. Talking Business is taking a break but we
:22:38. > :22:41.will be back at the start of the New Year. So from me and the Talking
:22:42. > :22:47.Business team around the world, thanks for watching. Goodbye.