:00:00. > :00:00.Hello and welcome to Talking Business.
:00:00. > :00:10.I'm Lerato Mbele in Johannesburg, South Africa, where the economy
:00:11. > :00:14.And in turn, unemployment is rising, reaching
:00:15. > :00:17.some of the worst levels in the past decade.
:00:18. > :00:20.But joblessness is not just a South African problem,
:00:21. > :00:23.it's an issue across the African continent,
:00:24. > :00:31.where many young people are studying to access economic opportunities,
:00:32. > :00:33.despite the past decade of economic growth.
:00:34. > :01:00.That is the question on Talking Business.
:01:01. > :01:02.This is Talking Business, coming to you from Johannesburg,
:01:03. > :01:08.The question we are asking is, why is unemployment
:01:09. > :01:13.getting worse, particularly as it affects young Africans who make up
:01:14. > :01:17.To gauge the sentiment on the ground,
:01:18. > :01:19.we took to the streets of Johannesburg to ask ordinary
:01:20. > :01:25.From my point of view, the government is not doing
:01:26. > :01:39.I wish, like, if the government could do
:01:40. > :01:51.something like, let's say, find jobs for students who have just
:01:52. > :01:53.graduated, find internships for them, not like everybody has
:01:54. > :02:00.I suppose I am in the position now where I can still go and make a life
:02:01. > :02:09.and I would like to stay here.
:02:10. > :02:13.because we can't get a permanent job.
:02:14. > :02:16.I am excited about going to university,
:02:17. > :02:20.but the fact that I might be unemployed is kind of stressful,
:02:21. > :02:25.because I really plan on studying hard and I can't do anything
:02:26. > :02:28.about it, I just have to go to university
:02:29. > :02:34.Unemployment is affecting a lot of society.
:02:35. > :02:41.In the townships, people cannot afford to go to college.
:02:42. > :02:48.Those were the views of ordinary South Africans.
:02:49. > :03:05.Our panel is made up of the editor of the Business Day.
:03:06. > :03:07.Sitting next to him is Abraham Sarfo, a technical
:03:08. > :03:09.advisor at the new partnership for African development.
:03:10. > :03:11.His aerial focus is rural development and how
:03:12. > :03:18.And finally, Magdalene Moonsamy, the treasurer
:03:19. > :03:19.general of the economic freedom fighters.
:03:20. > :03:21.It is a political organisation that is in opposition
:03:22. > :03:29.You've heard what South Africans feel about the unemployment issue.
:03:30. > :03:33.My sentiments are the same. Unemployment is too high.
:03:34. > :03:36.People are desperate and they are losing hope.
:03:37. > :03:45.Visiting other countries on the continent,
:03:46. > :04:02.I think there is a lot of subdued sentiment that came across.
:04:03. > :04:04.The reality is that people are revolting.
:04:05. > :04:06.We have passed the point of crisis and we are
:04:07. > :04:10.The sentiment that it is no longer a crisis, some have said
:04:11. > :04:15.It is correct, because we have a generation of young people
:04:16. > :04:18.who have never worked, who don't know what it is like
:04:19. > :04:24.And that has long term consequences for the economy.
:04:25. > :04:35.Different heads of state recognise the issue.
:04:36. > :04:42.Even at the last summit that was held in Johannesburg,
:04:43. > :04:45.we at Nepad wanted to address this issue.
:04:46. > :04:46.Do you believe the leaders have understood
:04:47. > :04:53.In the African continent, 300 million young people will enter
:04:54. > :05:00.You are going to have a doubling of the population
:05:01. > :05:06.Can you imagine the magnitude not only demographically,
:05:07. > :05:14.I don't believe this is a problem of South Africa,
:05:15. > :05:24.it is said that nearly 9 million people are out of a job.
:05:25. > :05:26.That is about a quarter of the workforce in the country.
:05:27. > :05:28.Are those statistics conservative or accurate?
:05:29. > :05:31.Those statistics are conservative in my view, because such
:05:32. > :05:35.is the narrow definition of unemployment that
:05:36. > :05:38.there are millions more who have given up looking for work
:05:39. > :05:40.because the prospects of work are virtually
:05:41. > :05:48.Until you acknowledge the full scale of the problem,
:05:49. > :05:50.we will never have adequate responses.
:05:51. > :05:53.Across the African continent, we are told that we are seeing
:05:54. > :05:57.There are nearly 1 billion people living in Africa.
:05:58. > :06:06.I cannot definitely say this number or this percentage,
:06:07. > :06:16.I have travelled across the continent to almost 25 capitals,
:06:17. > :06:19.and I see the situation in South Africa in most
:06:20. > :06:25.Magdalene, the trade unions say unemployment in South Africa
:06:26. > :06:41.There is unemployability and there is unemployed.
:06:42. > :06:44.When you are discouraged or you are a graduate,
:06:45. > :06:45.you still don't have a job.
:06:46. > :06:47.It doesn't make you more or less employable.
:06:48. > :06:50.That is one of the problems we have with the semantics.
:06:51. > :06:51.Trade unions are not necessarily incorrect.
:06:52. > :06:54.Official statistics are definitely incorrect.
:06:55. > :07:00.We went in 2008 from 31% to almost 38% now.
:07:01. > :07:09.I think it is greater if you have to give the expanded
:07:10. > :07:14.Half of those who can't find jobs are said to be people under the age
:07:15. > :07:23.So when we talk about unemployment, should we use generic terms,
:07:24. > :07:25.or should we hone it down to youth unemployment?
:07:26. > :07:37.We should hone it down to youth unemployment,
:07:38. > :07:41.Part of the unemployment problem is the inability of the education
:07:42. > :07:43.system to produce somebody who is sufficiently trainable
:07:44. > :07:46.for a sustainable job in the real economy.
:07:47. > :07:49.Without segmenting the unemployment, we will never have a response
:07:50. > :07:54.Across the African continent, yes, young people
:07:55. > :07:57.are perhaps the most disaffected, but when you look
:07:58. > :08:00.at the poverty statistics, it is women
:08:01. > :08:16.Can we really just focus on a category of people?
:08:17. > :08:26.I think it is good for statistics purposes to categorise.
:08:27. > :08:29.But I like the way the definition is now on unemployability.
:08:30. > :08:41.Like he said, how do we link it to the courses and the students?
:08:42. > :08:43.We could have youth who are unemployed, but how
:08:44. > :08:53.They say two thirds of people who can't find jobs don't
:08:54. > :08:57.Is education at the root of the problem?
:08:58. > :09:01.Education is a significant contributor to the problem.
:09:02. > :09:03.I don't think on its own, it is the root.
:09:04. > :09:05.There is the other half, which is industrial and economic
:09:06. > :09:08.policy responses by governments to the problem.
:09:09. > :09:11.Does any politician stand up and say in the context of South Africa
:09:12. > :09:14.or any country with similar conditions on the continent,
:09:15. > :09:16.we need to stimulate the parts of the
:09:17. > :09:18.economy where people who are unskilled and do not
:09:19. > :09:19.have a high school qualification can find
:09:20. > :09:26.Talking about unemployment in broad strokes and
:09:27. > :09:28.talking about industrial policy in broad strokes,
:09:29. > :09:30.unfortunately hasn't worked and will not work.
:09:31. > :09:32.There is definitely a structural problem.
:09:33. > :09:35.We have one of the weakest macroeconomic policies that you can
:09:36. > :09:40.find, and you see it in the lives people are leading.
:09:41. > :09:46.If you take artisans, for example, 50% of artisans
:09:47. > :09:49.enter institutions and fall out of the system.
:09:50. > :09:56.They get grabbed into the private sector, given a stipend
:09:57. > :10:03.They are told by the time they finish, they will earn
:10:04. > :10:09.This is a duplicate of the jobs fund.
:10:10. > :10:16.And the jobs fund was created with the
:10:17. > :10:18.intention of intervening in the unemployment crisis for young
:10:19. > :10:21.It enriched capital. It exploited young people.
:10:22. > :10:23.9 billion rand were set aside in 2011.
:10:24. > :10:26.Six years later, there are only 4.7 billion that have been used.
:10:27. > :10:32.Ask yourself, how many permanent jobs have been created?
:10:33. > :10:45.What is lacking at a policy level are any ideas to grow
:10:46. > :10:48.new sectors of the economy in line with the kind of skillset
:10:49. > :10:50.Magdalene, when the economic freedom fighters were
:10:51. > :10:53.formed, it was responding to the agitation on the ground
:10:54. > :10:55.by young people, wanting jobs and the right
:10:56. > :11:00.to a free education, wanting a better life.
:11:01. > :11:03.Please describe for me the levels of youth frustration and despair
:11:04. > :11:20.Youth in South Africa is between the ages of 14 and 35.
:11:21. > :11:22.But 63% of the unemployed are under the age of 25.
:11:23. > :11:26.You have the rebellion because at a time when
:11:27. > :11:29.leadership should respond adequately to what the majority
:11:30. > :11:35.of the population are saying, it moves in another direction.
:11:36. > :11:42.We will be discussing solutions in a short while.
:11:43. > :11:44.Firstly, whilst we have been focusing on the unemployment crisis
:11:45. > :11:47.in South Africa and indeed Africa, what is the situation
:11:48. > :11:54.For this week's talking point, our comedic consultant
:11:55. > :11:57.has been looking at unemployment and youth issues
:11:58. > :11:59.in other parts of the world, but more importantly,
:12:00. > :12:02.he has been looking at the future prospects of the job
:12:03. > :12:16.On this week's talking point, how do young people of today find
:12:17. > :12:25.So what are the job prospects for this generation of young people?
:12:26. > :12:29.Or youth, as the authors of international reports
:12:30. > :12:31.refer to the 16 to 24-year-old age group?
:12:32. > :12:37.37% of the global unemployed are youth.
:12:38. > :12:42.Two out of every five economically active young
:12:43. > :12:46.people are either unemployed or working, yet living in poverty.
:12:47. > :12:50.Globally, for the last 20 years, the youth unemployment rate has
:12:51. > :12:53.consistently been almost three times that of the adult rate.
:12:54. > :12:58.In North Africa, youth unemployment increased
:12:59. > :13:03.In the Middle East, the figure was 28%.
:13:04. > :13:07.In Europe, in two thirds of countries, 20% or more
:13:08. > :13:13.The subject of youth unemployment has reached
:13:14. > :13:19.This year, the World Economic Forum published a report entitled
:13:20. > :13:28.Last year, the UNFPA told us there are 1.8 billion young people
:13:29. > :13:30.between the ages of ten and 24 in the world
:13:31. > :13:34.There are 70 countries where 50% of the world are under
:13:35. > :13:39.It is the developing world where you have
:13:40. > :13:44.So where are these 1.8 billion young people going to get their jobs?
:13:45. > :13:49.One thing is for certain - a lot of them
:13:50. > :13:53.won't be doing the same jobs their parents and grandparents did.
:13:54. > :13:54.Not least because the technology that is
:13:55. > :13:57.inside and will succeed devices like this is going to do away
:13:58. > :14:02.But how do we even know what jobs we should be training them for?
:14:03. > :14:12.Maybe we will need conflict resolution as the appliances
:14:13. > :14:15.in the internet of everything become sentient and start
:14:16. > :14:17.Now, fridge, we need to work together.
:14:18. > :14:19.I know there were difficulties, but the cooker
:14:20. > :14:21.has apologised and we should move on.
:14:22. > :14:24.Unfortunately, though, because of inequality,
:14:25. > :14:28.not every young person will be able to get the job of their dreams.
:14:29. > :14:30.If you are a young person and you have the energy
:14:31. > :14:34.and ambition and you want to change the world, there has never been
:14:35. > :14:40.If people can benefit from really elite educations and environments
:14:41. > :14:44.that allow them to realise those ambitions, to start a company and do
:14:45. > :14:53.If you find yourself outside that world of very
:14:54. > :14:55.good education and an environment that allows you to flourish
:14:56. > :14:57.and realise your ambitions, it can feel
:14:58. > :15:11.people who are looking for real jobs right now.
:15:12. > :15:12.And that is creating real frustration.
:15:13. > :15:15.Governments all over the world would ignore that frustration
:15:16. > :15:25.That was his take on the future of work.
:15:26. > :15:28.If you want to see more films, log on to our website.
:15:29. > :15:37.Our panel is now joined by a very popular DJ,
:15:38. > :15:39.Mo Flava, host of the morning fix on Metro FM.
:15:40. > :15:43.You meet them in clubs and talk to them via social media.
:15:44. > :15:47.The youth in South Africa recognise that education is important.
:15:48. > :15:50.Everybody knows we have to go to school.
:15:51. > :15:54.We have to study something in university.
:15:55. > :16:04.Experts will tell you about 800,000 jobs
:16:05. > :16:05.are available in the private sector,
:16:06. > :16:09.if there are so many jobs in the private sector,
:16:10. > :16:12.Why are they telling us that even after my
:16:13. > :16:14.engineering degree, I don't have experience?
:16:15. > :16:17.Are they frustrated, despondent, or are they angry?
:16:18. > :16:26.There is a lot of frustration with those who are more
:16:27. > :16:29.educated and perhaps learned, having gone through the university
:16:30. > :16:30.system, will get the feeling that the
:16:31. > :16:33.government is not doing enough, so there is anger
:16:34. > :16:38.I have heard leaders say young people, seize the mantle,
:16:39. > :16:41.carpe diem, be the solution to your problems, be entrepreneurs.
:16:42. > :16:44.Entrepreneurship is how to solve the problem.
:16:45. > :16:47.Does that message resonate with young people?
:16:48. > :16:50.I was watching the vox pops earlier, and it is interesting how one
:16:51. > :16:54.of the young ladies said, I have to find a job.
:16:55. > :17:01.I am not hearing enough young people saying,
:17:02. > :17:03.we are being taught the idea of being entrepreneurs,
:17:04. > :17:14.It is more like you need to be out there to find a job.
:17:15. > :17:17.Hence, the shift in mindset should be that perhaps we need to start
:17:18. > :17:20.instilling a stronger sense of entrepreneurship.
:17:21. > :17:22.A shift in mindset, says DJ Mo Flava.
:17:23. > :17:24.Is that a shift in mindset in the young
:17:25. > :17:28.unemployed, or a shift in mindset in business and government,
:17:29. > :17:33.those that can create the jobs needed?
:17:34. > :17:38.We normally find interventions which bear no
:17:39. > :17:44.relation to the situation on the ground.
:17:45. > :17:48.So you will find an initiative linked to tourism, but there is no
:17:49. > :17:52.road that goes to the tourism asset, and roads and
:17:53. > :17:54.infrastructure are corridors of economic activity.
:17:55. > :17:56.When you tell young people to be entrepreneurial,
:17:57. > :17:57.they cannot meaningfully do business.
:17:58. > :18:09.The second thing is a regulatory mindset to policy-making.
:18:10. > :18:11.The business registration act in South Africa says anybody
:18:12. > :18:13.who is even hawking something on foot
:18:14. > :18:15.needs to register at a local authority, and any government
:18:16. > :18:22.official can stop them and ask for a licence.
:18:23. > :18:28.The question is, what are you doing? This is how people survive.
:18:29. > :18:32.You should not constrain this activity, but encourage it.
:18:33. > :18:34.These are shift in mindsets that young people
:18:35. > :18:37.often are asked to do things for which there is no
:18:38. > :18:38.infrastructure, and that is not helpful.
:18:39. > :18:41.And if you are going to encourage young people, train them,
:18:42. > :18:43.give them access to resources that they need.
:18:44. > :18:45.If the infrastructure is not there, you
:18:46. > :18:52.The focus of infrastructure needs to shift and
:18:53. > :18:58.It is an interesting issue, because we are seeing higher rates
:18:59. > :19:00.of urbanisation in South Africa and the
:19:01. > :19:06.general feeling is that people want to leave the rural areas
:19:07. > :19:08.to pursue economic opportunities in the city.
:19:09. > :19:10.Somebody needs to make agriculture interesting, even sexy.
:19:11. > :19:15.Yes, and that has been one of the problems we have,
:19:16. > :19:19.getting young people into agriculture.
:19:20. > :19:22.The issue is the modernisation of agriculture.
:19:23. > :19:25.That is what the comprehensive agriculture programme
:19:26. > :19:39.Make agriculture modernised, infrastructure-wise.
:19:40. > :19:44.People do not want to go into the production level.
:19:45. > :19:47.There are areas which have not been opened up, and if that space
:19:48. > :19:55.is open, young people will have a lot of opportunities
:19:56. > :19:57.and the entrepreneurial abilities will then come up.
:19:58. > :19:59.Let's talk about the future, really and truly.
:20:00. > :20:02.If there isn't a quick intervention, are we
:20:03. > :20:07.likely to see, in sub-Saharan Africa, the kind of Arab Spring that
:20:08. > :20:17.Are we likely to see young people leading a revolution because of this
:20:18. > :20:19.youth unemployment issue and the despondency that
:20:20. > :20:28.We are seeing regime changes, albeit democratically,
:20:29. > :20:48.We might not have a so-called Arab Spring in the violent way
:20:49. > :20:50.it was, but in the more systematic ways, in countries
:20:51. > :20:55.where you have governments that are seen to be very
:20:56. > :20:57.strong, they are being removed them democratically.
:20:58. > :20:59.And most votes are coming from the young people.
:21:00. > :21:01.It is something that governments need to
:21:02. > :21:10.take into consideration, how to address this issue.
:21:11. > :21:12.Mo Flava, how are young people channelling their energies?
:21:13. > :21:14.Are they going to confront politicians or just complain
:21:15. > :21:17.Well, we have seen plenty of examples of both.
:21:18. > :21:19.The power of social media, students have
:21:20. > :21:23.said the fees for university are too high.
:21:24. > :21:26.And we have seen young people taking on titans in the world of politics,
:21:27. > :21:32.at a political or government level, even as far as the union buildings.
:21:33. > :21:36.For me, it spells a sense that we believe we can bring
:21:37. > :21:43.Gentlemen, very briefly, if I could ask you for one
:21:44. > :21:45.intervention that could help address the problem,
:21:46. > :21:54.He said what I was going to say, but there is another,
:21:55. > :22:04.I think explaining to young people what it means to be in the working
:22:05. > :22:07.world, that it is not just about jobs, sometimes
:22:08. > :22:10.it is about being the person that creates the job.
:22:11. > :22:23.The editor of Business Day, Abraham Sarfo,
:22:24. > :22:25.technical advisor and DJ Mo Flava Tsiki from Metro FM.
:22:26. > :22:27.You have been watching Talking Business, from
:22:28. > :22:32.Please note that next week's edition of the programme will be coming
:22:33. > :22:34.to you from London, hosted by Tanya Beckett, as she looks
:22:35. > :22:37.at the issue of cyber security and what businesses need
:22:38. > :22:59.From South Africa, thanks for your time and goodbye.
:23:00. > :23:11.Stormy day across parts of the UK today. More storms and scenes like
:23:12. > :23:12.this recorded in Dorset to come over the next few days. Heavy rain has