:00:00. > :00:16.Asia, a rapidly growing region with some of the youngest populations in
:00:17. > :00:20.the world. But Asia is also growing old, fast. It is estimated that 200
:00:21. > :00:26.million people will enter the ranks of the elderly in the next 15 years.
:00:27. > :00:31.Many of Asia's economies are still developing. How will governments and
:00:32. > :00:55.businesses cope with this new ageing demographic?
:00:56. > :01:02.Welcome to Talking Business. I am Karishma Vaswani in Hanoi. One of
:01:03. > :01:06.the oldest cities in Asia and the capital of being an. This country
:01:07. > :01:10.has a booming birth rate with one of the youngest populations in the
:01:11. > :01:15.region, but it has been growing old at a faster rate than many other
:01:16. > :01:22.nations. This is not just the Vietnamese problem. Currently, 5% is
:01:23. > :01:33.above the age of 65. That figure is expected to rise by 70% in the next
:01:34. > :01:35.15 years, and that will cost Asian economies some $20 trillion. Here is
:01:36. > :01:39.a look at the breakdown. According to the World Bank, the wealthiest
:01:40. > :01:43.countries in Asia Japan, South Korea and Singapore are currently the most
:01:44. > :01:53.aged with 14% of their populations over 65. Japan will reach super aged
:01:54. > :01:58.status soonest with 30% of its population in the elderly bracket by
:01:59. > :02:06.2030. And South Korea may see its GDP shrink by as much as 8%, 2026,
:02:07. > :02:12.simply due to a smaller workforce. Middle income countries like China,
:02:13. > :02:18.the nun, Indonesia and Thailand are not far behind, according to the
:02:19. > :02:23.Asia-Pacific risk centre, about 20% of its populations are expected age
:02:24. > :02:27.out of the workforce by 2020 -- Vietnam. The biggest concern is
:02:28. > :02:32.these economies will grow old before they grow rich. Let's look at one
:02:33. > :02:36.example, Singapore. It may be one of the wealthiest countries in Asia but
:02:37. > :02:41.it is one of the smallest in terms of size and population. One of the
:02:42. > :02:46.ways it is trying to tackle this issue is by extending reproductive
:02:47. > :02:51.life span of its people. It is not everyday you a second chance. And
:02:52. > :02:58.even more rare if you are 67 years old. But that is exactly what
:02:59. > :03:09.happened to this man, known to his colleagues simply as uncle Chu. The
:03:10. > :03:16.name is a sign of respect but it is also indicating he two decades older
:03:17. > :03:21.than his colleagues. At our age having a job makes us feel wanted
:03:22. > :03:25.and it is great to keep ourselves occupied by working. This is one of
:03:26. > :03:30.the few Singaporean businesses which is trying to integrate the elderly
:03:31. > :03:36.into its workforce. Many Singapore countries are reluctant to hire an
:03:37. > :03:39.older employee. The typical stereotypes of older people is they
:03:40. > :03:43.are more expensive than younger employees or that they are slow and
:03:44. > :03:49.they don't learn any more and maybe they are not physically healthy and
:03:50. > :03:56.fit. So through the years we have addressed these and of course it
:03:57. > :03:59.takes two parties. You have to have the employee and the employer to
:04:00. > :04:04.contribute to this and I think we have made a lot of progress.
:04:05. > :04:10.Singapore is beginning to understand it needs to address this problem
:04:11. > :04:14.now. Currently, the elderly make up some 11% of the country's population
:04:15. > :04:19.but that figure is expected to rise to 20% in the next 15 years, and
:04:20. > :04:24.Singapore is growing old at a faster rate than many of its neighbours.
:04:25. > :04:30.Singapore's government estimates that ten years ago, 50% of the
:04:31. > :04:35.elderly were employed. That has now jumped to 67% which means two thirds
:04:36. > :04:39.of the elderly are in some form of employment, but officials admit this
:04:40. > :04:45.is still a work in progress. When we compare it to some of the more
:04:46. > :04:48.developed countries which are quite good at maximising the potential of
:04:49. > :04:53.older workers, I think we are quite comparable but we believe there is
:04:54. > :04:56.still an upside. We think we are in a good trajectory that there is
:04:57. > :05:01.still work to be done, particularly when we think about the demographic
:05:02. > :05:06.trends. It was not that long ago that Singapore was still a young
:05:07. > :05:11.country. The citystate went from third World to first in just a few
:05:12. > :05:17.short decades. It was that economic success which led in part to fewer
:05:18. > :05:21.women having babies, and as the population shrinks, Singapore is
:05:22. > :05:25.counting on its elderly to ensure that the next-generation's future
:05:26. > :05:30.remains intact. Well, governments in the region have been recognising
:05:31. > :05:37.this issue over the last few years. Recently, Hanoi played host to the
:05:38. > :05:40.ageing Asia conference which allowed governments and representatives of
:05:41. > :05:45.civil society groups to mull over the scale of the problem and the
:05:46. > :05:51.challenges facing Asian economies in the years ahead. I am joined by some
:05:52. > :05:57.of the key speakers at this conference. We have Philip O'Keefe
:05:58. > :06:02.from the world bank. The president and director of a foundation and an
:06:03. > :06:06.expert in this field who has helped to BME 's government with strategies
:06:07. > :06:12.to deal with some of these issues. Thank you for joining me on Talking
:06:13. > :06:16.Business. Philip, what is the scale of the problem or the challenges
:06:17. > :06:25.which are facing Asian economies when it comes to dealing with
:06:26. > :06:33.ageing? Currently have in the East Asian Pacific a number of people
:06:34. > :06:40.aged over 65 and that will rise to half a billion people by 24 two.
:06:41. > :06:44.This is the most rapidly ageing region then we have seen in history.
:06:45. > :06:48.There will clearly be many more older people in the future. That
:06:49. > :06:56.creates opportunities and challenges. Some of the challenges
:06:57. > :07:01.is it will create new dynamic pressures in the Labour market. The
:07:02. > :07:06.biggest challenge for the government is the fiscal challenge and the risk
:07:07. > :07:13.of pensions. Marianne, Patsy can jump in. The scale of the problem in
:07:14. > :07:21.the future seems quite stark, but are there any particular countries
:07:22. > :07:29.which stand out as having understood the challenges particularly well? I
:07:30. > :07:38.think across Asia, as Phillips said, some countries clearly have a big
:07:39. > :07:43.issue and they are very aware of it. Singapore where I work has taken
:07:44. > :07:47.major steps in recent years because we are one of the fastest ageing
:07:48. > :07:52.regions and we feel the pressure is with the health system and the
:07:53. > :07:58.Labour market. They have to make some changes as well. Mr Long, here
:07:59. > :08:02.in Vietnam, I know you have done a lot of work with the government and
:08:03. > :08:08.the nam is one of the countries when you'd typically think about it, it
:08:09. > :08:14.has a young demographic, it is a very fast-growing economy, it is not
:08:15. > :08:21.necessarily a country you would necessarily associate with having an
:08:22. > :08:32.ageing problem? In the past 50 years, we have a very big
:08:33. > :08:42.demographic change. In 30 years we will become an ageing country. That
:08:43. > :08:48.is while it we are dealing with economic growth as well as an ageing
:08:49. > :08:54.population. What I am trying to understand is how did we get to this
:08:55. > :08:58.stage? Philip, can you explain to me, for a region as fast-growing as
:08:59. > :09:03.Asia is, how did we get to this point where we are now facing such a
:09:04. > :09:09.stark reality when it comes to ageing societies in the future? All
:09:10. > :09:13.of the world and historically, as countries get richer, fertility
:09:14. > :09:21.rates fall, winning's education rates go up, they fall further. This
:09:22. > :09:25.region has gone through a rapid period of growth. Fertility rates
:09:26. > :09:30.here between 1950 and the present fell more than an additional child
:09:31. > :09:34.to the rest of the world. So as a result, you are well below
:09:35. > :09:38.replacement rate. It was that falling fertility rates which got us
:09:39. > :09:45.to this point so quickly. That is the key thing, the pace of change.
:09:46. > :09:50.The transition from ageing to aged society in the way democracy is
:09:51. > :09:55.define it, took 115 years in France, 70 years in the United States and
:09:56. > :10:01.will take 18 years in Vietnam, Korea and Thailand. Dealing with the
:10:02. > :10:06.things that brings on and the pace which it brings it on and the need
:10:07. > :10:11.for social and cultural and policy change is really quite a big
:10:12. > :10:14.challenge for governments. I think the flip side of the coin is people
:10:15. > :10:19.are living longer. They are living longer because the health care
:10:20. > :10:23.system is good to keep people alive but not necessarily healthier. And
:10:24. > :10:26.of course we all known now that even developing countries, before it was
:10:27. > :10:32.infectious disease which killed them and relatively young, but now they
:10:33. > :10:38.live long with chronic diseases like high blood pressure and by Beatties.
:10:39. > :10:42.Thing is that if you manage it well, you are fine. But if you have
:10:43. > :10:47.hypertension, you are smoking and you don't take your medication you
:10:48. > :10:52.will have a stroke. Diabetes, this is one of the areas with the highest
:10:53. > :10:57.rates of diabetes because of the changing diet and lifestyle but we
:10:58. > :11:02.have not had the change in primary care support so older people can
:11:03. > :11:08.prevent a stroke or amputation or kidney failure. Those things put the
:11:09. > :11:12.burden is on individuals lives as well as the political work and the
:11:13. > :11:16.care they need from their community and the government. Hold that
:11:17. > :11:21.thought. Some of these issues are also being dealt with in other parts
:11:22. > :11:25.of the world. We have a light-hearted look at some of these
:11:26. > :11:29.challenges. There are plenty of post-retirement
:11:30. > :11:34.cliches which I could use in my talking point on ageing, golf, bowls
:11:35. > :11:40.and bowels, but there are a little low rent for me. Yachting or at
:11:41. > :11:48.least standing in front of yachts is more my style which is why I am
:11:49. > :11:54.standing at a marina outside Dublin. One thing is for certain, I have no
:11:55. > :11:58.plans for retirement, literally, no plans, no pension. My only plan is
:11:59. > :12:03.to have children and hope they will get on with me and support me in my
:12:04. > :12:07.old age. But that is so far-off that I have to work for the time being.
:12:08. > :12:14.You will not see me with the wind in my sales and a glass of wine in my
:12:15. > :12:16.hands, sadly. But you cannot be sad because that is counter-productive.
:12:17. > :12:32.Apparently, being positive is the key to. Perceptions of ageing, how
:12:33. > :12:34.you see yourself ageing influences longer turn your brain ageing and
:12:35. > :12:37.physical ageing. But this is not just theoretical happy clappy stuff.
:12:38. > :12:42.It could lead to some policy changes on the road ahead. In Ireland if you
:12:43. > :12:48.are working in a public service you must retire at 65. Very often these
:12:49. > :12:55.days people are reaching their maximum capacity at that age and
:12:56. > :12:59.carry a whole lot of institutional richness and history with them. So
:13:00. > :13:03.reflections on policy retirement ageing is very important. But
:13:04. > :13:08.eventually, the stand-up has to sit down and who will pay for the yachts
:13:09. > :13:13.when we are too decrepit to earn money? I think what is key from the
:13:14. > :13:18.economics is with people living longer and longer, people will have
:13:19. > :13:22.to spend more time working. They will have to spend time beyond the
:13:23. > :13:27.standard retirement age working but I think we have to think of creative
:13:28. > :13:32.ways of doing this. So I don't have to rush my career at all. It looks
:13:33. > :13:39.like there is such a long road ahead I will be doing stand-up until well
:13:40. > :13:43.into my old age. What you learn is many people would like to work
:13:44. > :13:47.beyond the standard retirement age of 65 but they don't necessarily
:13:48. > :13:50.want to be working at the highest level of corporate responsibility
:13:51. > :13:54.they have ever had. There are some older people who would like the
:13:55. > :13:58.option of moving down the career pyramid but we tend not to
:13:59. > :14:04.facilitate that. We have heard a lot about the challenges of an ageing
:14:05. > :14:09.population but what about the opportunities? What can companies
:14:10. > :14:14.sell to an older age group apart from retirement style hats?
:14:15. > :14:22.Tailoring availability of new technologies, new devices, new
:14:23. > :14:27.consumer goods to older persons is something that the corporate world
:14:28. > :14:34.is waking up to but maybe not as fast as local populations are
:14:35. > :14:39.raging. In an ideal world I would finish my talking point by sailing
:14:40. > :14:45.off into the Dublin Bay, my life's work done, ready to take my ease but
:14:46. > :14:49.this is not an ideal world. The ageing population and ageing world
:14:50. > :14:53.has some real-world problems and these will need concrete solutions
:14:54. > :14:59.from public policymakers and corporations alike.
:15:00. > :15:04.That was our comedy consultant there. If you liked that, you can
:15:05. > :15:12.see more of his material on our website. Back to the discussion.
:15:13. > :15:19.Early on, we were talking about some of the problems or challenges with
:15:20. > :15:23.regards to the scale of what is affecting ageing societies in Asia.
:15:24. > :15:27.What about how business can contribute in terms of policies or
:15:28. > :15:33.incentives with regards to hiring older workers. What do you think,
:15:34. > :15:40.Philip, are you seeing some success stories? It is beginning in the
:15:41. > :15:45.oldest countries. Across the world, one of the biggest challenges is
:15:46. > :15:50.employer attitudes to hiring older workers. In Japan and Singapore
:15:51. > :15:54.you're seeing the beginnings of this, a mixture of government
:15:55. > :16:00.incentives and responsibility from employers. In Japan and Korea, they
:16:01. > :16:05.have the longest working lives of any country in the OECD. Whether it
:16:06. > :16:10.is people's attitudes or employers attitudes, there is a great degree
:16:11. > :16:14.of success. Maryanne, I know you do a lot of work with older people in
:16:15. > :16:22.Singapore, what are some of the issues they have said when they have
:16:23. > :16:27.tried to get re-employed or back into the workforce? It is difficult
:16:28. > :16:30.because changing the culture of the employers is hard. The other side is
:16:31. > :16:39.you have to think out of that box and think what work opportunities
:16:40. > :16:45.are presented. Nowadays, people are getting very savvy with the digital
:16:46. > :16:51.economy. And the whole boot economy is wide open. It could be older
:16:52. > :16:53.people starting business or young people with platforms which allows
:16:54. > :17:00.older people with skills and products and services to find the
:17:01. > :17:04.marketplace -- the goober economy. I think it gives them flexibility,
:17:05. > :17:08.choice and the option of people working when they want and not when
:17:09. > :17:14.they want. There are many opportunities. We like to have
:17:15. > :17:18.leisure and have good food travel and many things. But we need
:17:19. > :17:22.housing, transportation, fashion, we should look at what we can provide
:17:23. > :17:29.for them. I think people are not yet recognising that. Some older people
:17:30. > :17:36.are not wealthy and have limited purchasing power. But an increasing
:17:37. > :17:44.number, looking at people, I am 61, so there are groups of people who
:17:45. > :17:49.are having purchasing power of different variability. The marketing
:17:50. > :17:55.people should look at them as consumers. That is a really
:17:56. > :17:59.interesting point. Mr Long, does that work in countries where the
:18:00. > :18:04.income level has not reached a certain stage yet or people have not
:18:05. > :18:09.moved into the middle-class yet where the demographic of the aged or
:18:10. > :18:15.ageing is not an attractive demographic at that point in time to
:18:16. > :18:25.start selling to? Vietnam is another interesting story. We have an ageing
:18:26. > :18:32.demographic. We are struggling how to keep the job for older people if
:18:33. > :18:37.they want to and at the same time, how to have jobs for young people.
:18:38. > :18:41.And recognising in some sectors like education and health, if we stop
:18:42. > :18:47.people working from very early, it means we have to take that 20 or 30
:18:48. > :18:53.years to train get same human resource. And in the education
:18:54. > :18:59.sector where I am working now, we have a flexible retirement age for
:19:00. > :19:03.the people. They can stop working at 64 men and 55 for women, but that
:19:04. > :19:08.the government can extend about ten years for the people who really want
:19:09. > :19:12.to continue working. Philip, let's look at some of the more developed
:19:13. > :19:15.economies in Asia and how they have dealt with the issue of getting
:19:16. > :19:23.private sector to help out with looking after the aged. In Japan and
:19:24. > :19:28.Korea, some of the challenges they face, as I understand it, they could
:19:29. > :19:32.bring more people in to look after ageing societies, but they are
:19:33. > :19:39.reluctant to do this. So what do they then do? It is a good question.
:19:40. > :19:41.The first thing they moved on it is a good question. The first thing
:19:42. > :19:44.removed was the financing side. Korea and Japan introduced public
:19:45. > :19:48.long care insurance. The first step they did and what many countries are
:19:49. > :19:54.thinking about how to do it now, it was getting finance available. The
:19:55. > :19:58.second thing is, particularly at lower end care, what do you do?
:19:59. > :20:05.Japan has tried with Filipino nurses over the years but language
:20:06. > :20:09.problems, other issues but particularly the language was a big
:20:10. > :20:14.issue. In China, until now you have been able to draw the younger
:20:15. > :20:19.workforce from the rural areas to the coastal areas so you had
:20:20. > :20:24.internal migration partly addressing the issue. And then there is the
:20:25. > :20:29.commercial sector itself. Thailand has created a niche for itself in
:20:30. > :20:34.medical tourism and it is able to draw people from as far as the old
:20:35. > :20:42.as Europe but particularly in the region, the older population. That
:20:43. > :20:49.is a market Thailand has brought up -- built up and is developing. Mary
:20:50. > :20:53.Ann Tsao, you are talking about how important it is to keep the elderly
:20:54. > :20:57.healthy, but when you talk about business opportunities for elderly
:20:58. > :21:00.people to become entrepreneurs, are their systems in place currently
:21:01. > :21:07.from what you are seeing to make it easy for them to do that? In
:21:08. > :21:11.Singapore for example, one of the key investments the government has
:21:12. > :21:18.made is access to retraining. We have had some success recruiting
:21:19. > :21:23.women who have not been working for a long time. They do not have many
:21:24. > :21:28.skills. We have to make the classroom training conducive for
:21:29. > :21:33.them. The fees are highly subsidised and we are able to get some of those
:21:34. > :21:41.women back in the workforce. They want to work and save money for
:21:42. > :21:44.themselves as they grow older. It is not wide open yet but I can see the
:21:45. > :21:53.system being changed so I am optimistic! Key distinctive in
:21:54. > :21:59.developing Asia, for those who are working after 60, 70% are in
:22:00. > :22:04.self-employment already. It is not like Japan or Singapore or career
:22:05. > :22:09.was in the past. A lot of that may be in agriculture so it is no
:22:10. > :22:12.productivity but the kind of animal spirits of entrepreneurialism are
:22:13. > :22:16.already there. How would you make that more productive is the
:22:17. > :22:20.question, whether it is training or access to credit. In a lot of
:22:21. > :22:24.countries people cannot get access to credit for their businesses
:22:25. > :22:29.beyond a certain age. That does not make sense. There are some policy
:22:30. > :22:39.issues which need addressing. On that note, thank you for joining us.
:22:40. > :22:45.Next week, Tanya Beckett will be looking at the anti immigrant
:22:46. > :22:51.sentiment. Thank you for joining us, I am Karishma Vaswani.