:00:00. > :00:00.Meanwhile, the soldiers are gearing up for what will surely we are
:00:00. > :00:00.brutal climax to the battle for Mosul.
:00:00. > :00:22.Talking Business. Moving your business into new markets can be a
:00:23. > :00:25.very tricky affair stop in Talking Business, we will be taking a look
:00:26. > :00:47.at what is involved in taking your brand global.
:00:48. > :00:56.Welcome to Talking Business. Taking a business and Rand global is really
:00:57. > :01:01.quite an operation, it takes much more than just a fancy website and
:01:02. > :01:07.glitzy advertising campaign all those both of those might be quite a
:01:08. > :01:10.good start. It is also understanding how your brand translates in other
:01:11. > :01:15.countries and finding the right partnership and distributors. How do
:01:16. > :01:21.you market and export to new regions? What does it take to take
:01:22. > :01:27.your business globally? Here to discuss this are three experts. The
:01:28. > :01:34.chairwoman of media, UK, the largest media agency. The founder of
:01:35. > :01:41.innocent drinks in May 1999 and now home finder of jamjar and the
:01:42. > :01:52.founder of ethical low which produces Mediterranean and baby
:01:53. > :01:56.food. --F Piccolo. When you are looking off taking it somewhere, how
:01:57. > :02:02.do you pick the elements of that are part and said we are going to work
:02:03. > :02:10.out which bits work? Our company is found on a diet known around the
:02:11. > :02:15.world so we have had a lot of inbound interest when we launched in
:02:16. > :02:19.the UK. In terms of distributors and retailers saying we would love to
:02:20. > :02:25.have you. We think it is understood by the Public here. It is also
:02:26. > :02:29.looking at what other players are in the market and do our existing
:02:30. > :02:35.partners in the UK already have a relationship with that market.
:02:36. > :02:43.Thinking in terms of the brand, your brand had a specific profile. It
:02:44. > :02:48.seemed that way. How did you break that down into chunks so you could
:02:49. > :02:56.look at it. When it is about something that tastes good and looks
:02:57. > :03:03.good, we were responsible in conducting the business in things
:03:04. > :03:08.that were universal. Whichever market, this is what people would
:03:09. > :03:16.want these days. It was the subtleties of lending it correctly.
:03:17. > :03:25.How would you say, the Wrexham will is of brands that have me stepped
:03:26. > :03:30.first Mac now, more so than ever, what is essential of any brand
:03:31. > :03:37.launching globally or in one market is about brand having purpose. So
:03:38. > :03:44.the wide. We have audiences and who can pick and choose based on price,
:03:45. > :03:48.accessibility, availability and purpose is really important. And it
:03:49. > :03:53.is not high your purpose in terms of solving the problems of humanity but
:03:54. > :03:59.what they can give back to the consumers. You think that has to be
:04:00. > :04:05.a social purpose? A back story? I absolutely do. More so than ever, in
:04:06. > :04:10.the current climate, brands really need to try and look at how they are
:04:11. > :04:14.going to do something for the consumer. We are in value exchange
:04:15. > :04:20.of consumers and is really, really important. When you took Innonce to
:04:21. > :04:28.other markets, whether elements of missing? People saying this is not
:04:29. > :04:34.enough? There were different aspects. The hardest thing was part
:04:35. > :04:40.of the brand was its openness and the way we communicated with people
:04:41. > :04:47.who bought the product. I think our biggest challenge was getting that
:04:48. > :04:52.device in each market engaging on our terms and consistent with the
:04:53. > :04:58.way we started the business. Did you have problems of people saying in
:04:59. > :05:05.this part of the world are people do not like strawberries or we like our
:05:06. > :05:10.strawberries to come from here? There was a sense that people wanted
:05:11. > :05:15.the recipes to reflect that national tastes. In Scandinavia if we had a
:05:16. > :05:21.berry recipe, it had to have blueberries. One of the things that
:05:22. > :05:26.happened with Innonce, it grew organically in each market and each
:05:27. > :05:31.country adopted at as they are in with a taste reflect that in it.
:05:32. > :05:43.That is an interesting aspect. Each country wanting to put their imprint
:05:44. > :05:48.on it. Because Piccolo is sourcing from the Mediterranean and it is
:05:49. > :05:54.what they want, they are looking for that kind of back story, that kind
:05:55. > :05:59.of sourcing, where we were buying the raw materials, they were
:06:00. > :06:03.interested in having that tomatoes from Italy. It is part of the reason
:06:04. > :06:09.why other markets are approaching us. Do you think there are cases
:06:10. > :06:15.where by people did not necessarily recognised the Mediterranean diet is
:06:16. > :06:22.the Alexa that we see it as? So far, we are a one-year-old company, we
:06:23. > :06:27.have had very positive response. We are already exporting into China and
:06:28. > :06:32.progress into the US next year. In terms of a large market, we have had
:06:33. > :06:39.a positive response. I am sure there will be a few markets... For example
:06:40. > :06:46.sub Saharan Africa were used to work in, may not know the diet as much. I
:06:47. > :06:51.spelt ten years of my life in the United Nations in food, I feel I
:06:52. > :06:59.have a sense of which markets are right for Piccolo. You may go into a
:07:00. > :07:03.market where you may have to bolt something more on to accommodate
:07:04. > :07:09.cultural identity or cultural sensitivities - can you think of
:07:10. > :07:16.cases where that has happened? When brands look to expand into other
:07:17. > :07:25.markets, they roll out on a geographical pattern... A regional
:07:26. > :07:31.basis. I do believe that geography actually isn't the court deciding
:07:32. > :07:36.factor of where to roll out to next. The cultural nuances are really key
:07:37. > :07:40.and important and it would not necessarily be a country next to
:07:41. > :07:48.each other that would be the same. For example, we work with Halsted
:07:49. > :07:54.which is a cultural institution and we looked a cultural differences in
:07:55. > :07:58.terms of marketing and targeting consumers. You find there are some
:07:59. > :08:04.markets where they tend to avoid risks. New product launches would be
:08:05. > :08:10.difficult. Those markets tend to be markets which are steeped in
:08:11. > :08:19.tradition. Market that respect high raki is. They preferred to gravitate
:08:20. > :08:27.towards market leader. -- hierarchy. An example would be Russia or Israel
:08:28. > :08:30.or Japan, tend to be markets culturally it would be risk
:08:31. > :08:34.avoiders. If you were launching a brand into that market, rather than
:08:35. > :08:39.taking an approach that one size fits all, in those markets which
:08:40. > :08:48.showed cultural similarities that are risk avoidance you need a
:08:49. > :08:52.tactic. Natural fruit smoothies would not present a risk to anybody
:08:53. > :08:57.but some people may not see it that way. Once we squeezed the freeze
:08:58. > :09:06.into the bottle, we were geographically limited. Because of
:09:07. > :09:10.the shelf life. We were physically constrained. We can get it across
:09:11. > :09:16.the Channel and into northern Europe and that is about as far as we can
:09:17. > :09:22.go. Our first market was France. What about this idea of risk which
:09:23. > :09:27.car and has talked about. What we saw is all markets tend to move in
:09:28. > :09:31.the same direction but there are different times in that journey so
:09:32. > :09:36.it was about getting the timing of right in different markets. On March
:09:37. > :09:43.more rapid acceptance in Scandinavia than the Germanic countries.
:09:44. > :09:50.Scandinavia was already into smoothies. In Germany everything was
:09:51. > :09:56.long shelf life so we had to change the distribution system and the view
:09:57. > :09:59.of what fruit juice could be. This is counterintuitive, if you saw
:10:00. > :10:07.something on the shelf that was very similar to your product you can
:10:08. > :10:11.think that is already done but not so. If the format is there and the
:10:12. > :10:15.customer has experience of going into the retail and finding that
:10:16. > :10:19.type of Ruddock, it is definitely a bit easier than bringing an entire
:10:20. > :10:25.new concept in the sense of changing the juice market. With Piccolo
:10:26. > :10:33.people know where to find baby food, they are not lost. When we take it
:10:34. > :10:36.as a new brand into a new market, we are also navigating by part of the
:10:37. > :10:42.supermarket they can find us and if they are looking for baby foods they
:10:43. > :10:47.know where to go. More from our guests later when we talk about
:10:48. > :10:52.establishing key partnerships. First an example of a company making the
:10:53. > :10:58.journey we have been talking about, after losing their parents in the
:10:59. > :11:01.Asian tsunami of 2004, brothers Rob and Paul wanted to create subtly
:11:02. > :11:10.innovative and unique driven by their personal passion after such a
:11:11. > :11:19.tragic loss. The result was Gandys. How to spot an opportunity. It was
:11:20. > :11:24.inspired by travel and filled by giving back, after spending many
:11:25. > :11:28.years kind of volunteering in India and travelling around South East
:11:29. > :11:33.Asia, we wanted to create a brand that would reflect that upbringing
:11:34. > :11:39.and would give people hope in our product. Because it has such an
:11:40. > :11:45.unusual story in terms of ourselves at losing our parents and wanting to
:11:46. > :11:50.build a children's home, at the there are people with quite a bit of
:11:51. > :11:54.admiration about what we do and people intrigued by the brand and
:11:55. > :11:58.story. Sometimes it is better to make sure you have it right in your
:11:59. > :12:05.backyard, the formula and ingredients, before going anywhere.
:12:06. > :12:09.At the start, people lock in your door and that will say we will come
:12:10. > :12:13.back to you in two years time so, without realising we were quite
:12:14. > :12:18.young and naive, you start dealing with countries and it takes up more
:12:19. > :12:22.time than the bigger markets. What we learnt in the last few years,
:12:23. > :12:27.more than often those people knocking on your door in fact it was
:12:28. > :12:33.not an opportunity but a distraction. What distribution do
:12:34. > :12:39.you have, who are your partners, white retailers and brands do you
:12:40. > :12:46.work with? We got a lot stricter on that and that seemed to help.
:12:47. > :12:55.The biggest mistake's working with you. I would say the same. Everyone
:12:56. > :12:59.makes mistakes. You cannot worry about making the biggest mistake as
:13:00. > :13:04.long as you don't do it again. Don't make the same mistake twice, good
:13:05. > :13:10.advice. Everyone is still with me. What do we mean by partners when we
:13:11. > :13:16.talk about going into a new market? You are already nodding, Kat. What
:13:17. > :13:19.partners do you need? On the marketing side, if you have a lot of
:13:20. > :13:37.international markets, you need a partner with international footfall.
:13:38. > :13:40.We partner with WaterBabies, a swim school, the largest in the UK. Even
:13:41. > :13:49.though they aren't related? Yes. It has been fantastic. When moms and
:13:50. > :13:55.dads go to babyschool, they get a pouch from Piccolo. It also spreads
:13:56. > :13:59.by word-of-mouth. And WaterBabies is also in China so we got there to. So
:14:00. > :14:08.if they trust them in the water, they might trust you with the brand.
:14:09. > :14:13.Yes. We also went with the UK's largest baby charity. They hear
:14:14. > :14:20.about us through the NCT, which they trust. The NCT is a British charity.
:14:21. > :14:25.I am looking at a similar model with an American counterpart. You. When
:14:26. > :14:30.we talk about partners, what kind of partners do we need and what
:14:31. > :14:37.function do they perform? One of the core things is getting distribution
:14:38. > :14:41.to expand into another market. Distribution is king. It does not
:14:42. > :14:45.have to be just physical bricks and mortar any more so it can be
:14:46. > :14:55.digital, it can be e-commerce. Think of an example, JD.com, China's
:14:56. > :14:59.second largest e-commerce site. Their growth was connected to a
:15:00. > :15:11.partnership they made with the biggest Internet service provider
:15:12. > :15:15.who had a messenger service which allowed one click through from the
:15:16. > :15:21.messenger to JD.com. That has been fundamental and a key part of
:15:22. > :15:29.JD.com. 'S growth. That was a key part. Cat indicated that having
:15:30. > :15:33.brand consistency with the person you are trying to work with, but
:15:34. > :15:40.also trust and making sure the customer trust them, is important.
:15:41. > :15:44.Yes. On the continent, when we had to do the physical growth, we had to
:15:45. > :15:50.build a relationship with retailers. And you need to engage consumers who
:15:51. > :15:54.are going to buy it. Which bits are you going to do and what will you
:15:55. > :15:58.hand over to other people? It is very tempting to hope that someone
:15:59. > :16:01.can do it all, because they will probably promise that. But you will
:16:02. > :16:05.find out there interests are slightly different and they will not
:16:06. > :16:10.see the brand in the same way you will and understand its dynamics.
:16:11. > :16:15.Increasingly, we try to partner for physical movement for goods, but we
:16:16. > :16:29.will set up local teams who build relationships with retailers and
:16:30. > :16:35.talk to consumers about the brand. Cat, the brothers from before said
:16:36. > :16:40.time and again, there are plenty of distractors. Yes. We have passed up
:16:41. > :16:45.on some things because it would take too much time for us and out into
:16:46. > :16:53.servers that market. File the interest and say it is not right now
:16:54. > :16:59.because we are focusing on other market. It is about prioritising. It
:17:00. > :17:04.takes so much discipline. You become a hot property and everyone
:17:05. > :17:11.expresses interest in you. To say no to it, we will not explorers, it is
:17:12. > :17:16.a hard decision to make. But it is easy to get drowned and swamped. I
:17:17. > :17:19.am interested in the idea that distribute us do not have interests
:17:20. > :17:24.aligned with yours. That seems counterintuitive. If you hire
:17:25. > :17:29.someone to help you, of course they have to have the same interest. It
:17:30. > :17:36.is not always true. Cat said it very well, you have to share core brand
:17:37. > :17:39.values and purpose. Making sure your brand keeps the correct company is
:17:40. > :17:44.really important when you are establishing a brand. There may be
:17:45. > :17:48.opportunities that allow you to go quick to market, but actually, it
:17:49. > :17:52.could be detrimental because it is not the right company, it is not the
:17:53. > :17:56.right association. They may incentivise the friendly, saying we
:17:57. > :18:02.would like to sell fewer with a higher margin and you may not be
:18:03. > :18:14.able to do that. If the "why" is not aligned, you really should not do
:18:15. > :18:18.it. The centre of the brand, is not just the how and what, the centre is
:18:19. > :18:21.the why, and it needs to be aligned for sustainable long-term growth.
:18:22. > :18:24.What about you? We made them for ourselves, our mistakes. Our first
:18:25. > :18:31.country overseas was France. We started doing it and we went to a
:18:32. > :18:34.trade show and put out a stand and translated everything in the
:18:35. > :18:46.promises of the brand onto banners, 100% fruit, no colourings, no
:18:47. > :18:52.preservatives. We said no presertif, and we could not understand why no
:18:53. > :19:00.one would come over. Because it meant male prophylactics. Yes. We
:19:01. > :19:04.needed people on the ground to translate. I want to talk to you a
:19:05. > :19:09.little bit about cutting losses, Cat. We are seeing, especially for
:19:10. > :19:15.major retailers, headlines coming out of China or India. You can
:19:16. > :19:19.understand because fast-growing legislation may change. There have
:19:20. > :19:25.been instances where you have seen retailers and other brands come out
:19:26. > :19:31.of pretty mature markets, Canada, even the United States. Have you had
:19:32. > :19:35.that experience? What is generally would spark a retreat? I think,
:19:36. > :19:39.especially now, those external conditions that have happened in the
:19:40. > :19:45.past 12- 18 months which are causing a lot of instability. Just within
:19:46. > :19:48.the things we take for granted in terms of the landscape with
:19:49. > :19:52.retailers. Especially with the recent election in the United
:19:53. > :20:04.States, record three was lucky in six months to do a launch with a
:20:05. > :20:07.brand associated with Walmart. Having that parent company with us
:20:08. > :20:16.is very much a positive. You can see how the effect in the US can trickle
:20:17. > :20:21.into the UK. Have you ever had to pull back? You have to decide which
:20:22. > :20:26.country to put the most investment in. We never pull out but we change
:20:27. > :20:31.investment. The companies we invest in, often what causes you to
:20:32. > :20:34.withdraw from a market is you have gone into too many. You have ever
:20:35. > :20:38.expanded, you have been overambitious. You realise you
:20:39. > :20:42.cannot cope with that breadth. So you have the double down on markets
:20:43. > :20:46.that work so be it is often internal operations. When you say you have
:20:47. > :20:51.overextended, can you not just hire more people rather than shutting
:20:52. > :20:56.down the opportunity? More people means more money. Web you'll get
:20:57. > :21:05.that from? How will you promise that? -- Where will you get that.
:21:06. > :21:13.So, over extending, not anticipating competitive. Or is it a change in
:21:14. > :21:18.legislation? It is a number of circumstances, the cost of raw
:21:19. > :21:22.materials, a change in legislation, policy, government change. There are
:21:23. > :21:28.a range of different influences. It could be, also, well, did you really
:21:29. > :21:33.understand the market? Because when you expanded to another market, you
:21:34. > :21:37.absolutely have to understand what is the media landscape, what is the
:21:38. > :21:42.competitive landscape in terms of the competitors, what are the
:21:43. > :21:46.purchase cycles in this market? What is the lifestyle of the consumers in
:21:47. > :21:50.this market? What are the cultural nuances of the market. That is just
:21:51. > :21:55.as important as some of the external factors and can have an influence.
:21:56. > :22:04.Just one final question, John, when you are advising the people, the
:22:05. > :22:10.companies you invest with, JamJar Investments, do you say going global
:22:11. > :22:14.is necessary, or you do you say it is up to you? We were at a meeting
:22:15. > :22:19.yesterday looking at the sides of the UK market and it was in
:22:20. > :22:24.billions. If your home market is in billions, you do not need to start
:22:25. > :22:29.about any where else until you are selling millions. It is the same
:22:30. > :22:37.anywhere else. Some products are a niche but global. Others you can
:22:38. > :22:42.move faster with the Internet. That is it for this edition of Talking
:22:43. > :22:52.Business. Thank you very much to all of our guests. Kat, Cat, and John.
:22:53. > :23:06.Thank you for watching. Goodbye. This is the shape of things to come
:23:07. > :23:13.rather than what we saw for many, at least, during the course
:23:14. > :23:17.of Sunday, which was a decent enough