0:00:06 > 0:00:09Tonight, on Taro Naw, we can reveal how much money...
0:00:09 > 0:00:13..has been spent on regenerating town centres in Wales.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17The golden age has gone for hundreds of high street stores.
0:00:17 > 0:00:22But will millions of pounds save them, or is it already too late?
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Our society centres around the high street.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30If people stop going shopping, they stop communicating...
0:00:30 > 0:00:33..and what do we have then?
0:00:33 > 0:00:37We have a castle, a dock, an excellent town centre...
0:00:37 > 0:00:40..but on their own they're not enough.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42We need more attractions and events.
0:00:42 > 0:00:47No matter how many attractions you have, you need to sell it.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49Subtitles
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Caernarfon is one of many towns across Wales...
0:01:15 > 0:01:19..where the high street faces a difficult time.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21It's a challenge.
0:01:21 > 0:01:2420% of the units in Wales are empty...
0:01:24 > 0:01:28..and, in some towns, the situation is worse than that.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Online shopping, supermarkets and the economy...
0:01:32 > 0:01:34..all contribute to the problem.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37What is the future of the high street?
0:01:38 > 0:01:40Empty windows, closed doors.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44Caernarfon is among the five worst town in Wales...
0:01:44 > 0:01:47..in terms of empty shops.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50Three shops belonging to one businessman...
0:01:50 > 0:01:55..have closed in Y Maes - an iconic centre for shoppers and tourists.
0:01:55 > 0:02:0019% of units here, almost double the national average, are empty...
0:02:00 > 0:02:03..and the number is rising.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07Ioan Thomas is the mayor and a town and county councillor.
0:02:07 > 0:02:11He and his fellow councillors are concerned about the deterioration.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15To help, regeneration plans were put forward to invest millions pounds...
0:02:16 > 0:02:19..in protecting the history and safeguarding the future.
0:02:19 > 0:02:24Ioan Thomas is also a businessman who owns a cafe and a nightclub.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28He admits that things are quieter these days...
0:02:28 > 0:02:32..but argues that it's not a problem in Caernarfon alone.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35There is a high turnover of shops.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38I don't think there's a long list of people...
0:02:38 > 0:02:40..waiting to invest in the town.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45But Caernarfon isn't unlike other towns.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48I'm sure many towns are worse off.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50I'm originally from Llanelli...
0:02:50 > 0:02:53..and the situation there isn't good.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56I'd say Llanelli is much worse off than Caernarfon.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Having invested in the town, he's obviously looking to the future.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05He's keen to emphasise the positives...
0:03:05 > 0:03:08..highlighting a three-year council scheme...
0:03:08 > 0:03:10..to bring shoppers and officials together...
0:03:11 > 0:03:13..to tackle the effects of the recession.
0:03:14 > 0:03:19Caernarfon has a big advantage and excellent resources.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21Its history and its castle.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25Hundreds of thousands of people visit every year.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28We're looking at a World Heritage Site.
0:03:28 > 0:03:33We are in the same bracket as the Taj Mahal and other places.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38We are attracting tourists and we should do a lot better.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42There is potential for local people and visitors.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45In Y Maes is the Silver Stars Holidays company.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48The company went into administration last year...
0:03:49 > 0:03:53..but Gavin Owen and 12 members of staff have kept their jobs.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55He watches what's happening carefully...
0:03:55 > 0:03:59..and contributed by organising a Christmas Fair last year.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02He says it's the way forward.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06The intentions of the Chamber of Commerce are good...
0:04:06 > 0:04:10..but we need more young people with the experience...
0:04:10 > 0:04:15..and qualifications to help organise these things.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19While he's willing to work hard, he says more needs to be done.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22He thinks the answer is professional advice...
0:04:22 > 0:04:25..and a full time manager for the town.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30We need a person or a team of people who are dedicated...
0:04:30 > 0:04:33..whether they work for the council or not...
0:04:33 > 0:04:35..developing and selling the town.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40We've got a castle, a dock, an excellent town centre...
0:04:40 > 0:04:42..but on their own they're not enough.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45We need more attractions and events.
0:04:45 > 0:04:50No matter how many attractions you have, you need to sell it.
0:04:50 > 0:04:55We need someone to manage and sell the town to attract people here.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Eirian James owns the Palace Print book shop.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03She faces a challenge from companies like Amazon and the supermarkets...
0:05:03 > 0:05:06..where books are sold at competitive prices.
0:05:06 > 0:05:11Her policy is to put the customer first and to organise events.
0:05:11 > 0:05:15It's hard work and sharing the burden is important.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19It's nice to have other people help organise things.
0:05:19 > 0:05:24I think that the way forward is people doing what they can...
0:05:24 > 0:05:28..contributing what they can, in terms of time and resources...
0:05:28 > 0:05:31..and moving forward together.
0:05:31 > 0:05:36Eirian moved from Cardiff to Caernarfon 10 years ago.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40She is delighted that the shop has done better than expected...
0:05:41 > 0:05:45..but emphasises that attracting local people is what's important.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49She makes sure there's plenty of choice for them.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53I think we're very lucky that we're on Palace Street...
0:05:53 > 0:05:56..in Caernarfon, where there is a good mix...
0:05:56 > 0:06:02..of small, independent shops which support each other...
0:06:02 > 0:06:06..and complement each other.
0:06:06 > 0:06:11But shopping trends are changing and fewer people are going out shopping.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14More people are shopping online.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17In a recent survey...
0:06:17 > 0:06:21..more than 50% said they will spend more online in future.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25We've invested a little in online shopping...
0:06:25 > 0:06:27..so we can sell online.
0:06:27 > 0:06:32But we've got to keep organising events in the shop...
0:06:32 > 0:06:34..which draw people in.
0:06:35 > 0:06:40The customers will determine the fate of the high street.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43It's a pity. I've been brought up here.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47I remember Woolworths and other little shops.
0:06:47 > 0:06:49It's a pity.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53It's a sad sight, to be honest. The shops are doing their best...
0:06:54 > 0:06:57..but they don't get the support from the council.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59The big shops are killing them.
0:06:59 > 0:07:05I prefer Caernarfon to Porthmadog because there's a New Look.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08I think it's better, to be honest.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10It's an historic town.
0:07:10 > 0:07:16We've got the Roman fort. There's plenty of history here.
0:07:16 > 0:07:21Maybe Caernarfon isn't sold the way we'd like it to be.
0:07:23 > 0:07:29It is a romantic Valentine's Day wedding at the Celtic Royal Hotel.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33The young couple live locally and tried to support local shops...
0:07:33 > 0:07:36..but they didn't get much luck.
0:07:36 > 0:07:39How much of your dress did you buy in Caernarfon?
0:07:39 > 0:07:41None. None at all.
0:07:42 > 0:07:43Why?
0:07:43 > 0:07:45There's nothing here.
0:07:45 > 0:07:48Nothing aimed at weddings at all.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53Do you always do that? Do you shop in Bangor?
0:07:54 > 0:07:55I always go to Bangor.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59You never go to Caernarfon. How about you, William?
0:07:59 > 0:08:01Emma does my shopping for me.
0:08:02 > 0:08:06No. I've been looking for grey shoes for the wedding...
0:08:07 > 0:08:10..and I couldn't find them in Caernarfon. I went to Bangor.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15We'll travel from Caernarfon to another town in North Wales...
0:08:15 > 0:08:18..after the break with a successful businesswoman...
0:08:18 > 0:08:22..who'll assess the mistakes and the successes of the high street.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30One of Carmarthen's most successful independent shops is Pethau Bychain.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34The owner is Marian Ritson, originally from Caernarfon.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37She ventured into business after a career in education.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41She has a definite view on the future of the high street.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44If you don't attract customers...
0:08:44 > 0:08:48..nothing gets sold and there is no turnover.
0:08:48 > 0:08:52There's no doubt that the high street has to adapt.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56It has to change, the shops have to change...
0:08:56 > 0:09:00..the way they sell and respond to customers.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04We have to offer something which makes it worthwhile...
0:09:04 > 0:09:09..for people to leave their homes, not shop online...
0:09:09 > 0:09:11..because they'll have a different experience.
0:09:12 > 0:09:16We took the businesswoman from Carmarthen to Caernarfon...
0:09:16 > 0:09:19..to hear her response to the situation there.
0:09:19 > 0:09:24They need trees and greenery and a lot more spirit.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26What about the number of people?
0:09:26 > 0:09:31It's half term. It should be very busy.
0:09:31 > 0:09:33But there are very few people here.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38There aren't many shops here to attract people.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42Somebody needs to take the marketing of Caernarfon...
0:09:42 > 0:09:43..seriously.
0:09:44 > 0:09:46After her visit to the town...
0:09:46 > 0:09:49..we discussed the situation over a cup of tea.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53She injured her leg recently in an accident.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55What were her views on Caernarfon?
0:09:55 > 0:09:57I was disappointed by the square.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01It needs a lot of urgent attention.
0:10:01 > 0:10:05There are three empty shops which look very run down.
0:10:05 > 0:10:11I saw one shop with too much stock. It was spilling on to the pavement.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13That needs to be sorted out.
0:10:14 > 0:10:20I walked down Palace Street and there were attractive new shops.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24I was disappointed there weren't shops like that on the square...
0:10:24 > 0:10:26..which would attract people.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29It's important and the money is there.
0:10:29 > 0:10:34The image of the shop has to be welcoming...
0:10:34 > 0:10:37..and of the highest standard.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42There are historic remains and efforts to modernise everywhere.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46One local group has bought 19 shops and attracted tenants.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50But many people believe change is inevitable.
0:10:50 > 0:10:56The main reason is that the retail areas - the shops...
0:10:56 > 0:11:00..have become too big, and they need to be restricted.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04The other problem is that town centres...
0:11:04 > 0:11:07..are very quiet in the evenings.
0:11:07 > 0:11:12Years ago, in Caernarfon, the owners lived above the shops.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16They have now moved out to nearby villages...
0:11:16 > 0:11:22..and the first and second floors of some shops are not used.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26We need to make better use of the buildings...
0:11:26 > 0:11:29..to energise the town centre.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33Problems like these have been causing concern...
0:11:33 > 0:11:37..for the Welsh Government for many years.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Between government spending and European funding...
0:11:41 > 0:11:45..we can reveal that almost £300 million has been spent...
0:11:45 > 0:11:48..on regenerating towns in Wales over the last five years.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52The Assembly Member for Arfon, Alun Ffred Jones...
0:11:52 > 0:11:55..was on a committee that published a report...
0:11:55 > 0:11:57..on town centre regeneration.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00It emphasises that town centres are vital to the economy...
0:12:00 > 0:12:03..and the recommendations include better marketing...
0:12:04 > 0:12:06..and flexible hours.
0:12:06 > 0:12:12The shopping areas in some cities and towns have become far too big.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15You won't fill all those shops.
0:12:15 > 0:12:21The problem is that the shops fill up with tat, to be honest.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24It doesn't attract people.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27For example, the high street in Bangor...
0:12:28 > 0:12:33..is one of the longest in Wales, if not Britain.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37Is it reasonable to fill it with shops...
0:12:38 > 0:12:43..or should you turn some of it into homes?
0:12:43 > 0:12:49The report also says we need to turn the empty units...
0:12:49 > 0:12:51..above shops into homes...
0:12:52 > 0:12:56..because if people live in town centres they'll buy goods there.
0:12:57 > 0:13:03A big challenge for high streets is out-of-town supermarkets.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06They can no be seen across Wales.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09People can do their shopping in one same place.
0:13:09 > 0:13:14The report calls for better planning and more research.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18There is no doubt that the failure of the Planning Act...
0:13:18 > 0:13:22..to control supermarkets has been tragedy.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25They are built before you realise it.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28To be fair, supermarkets aren't all bad.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31There's a wide range of choice...
0:13:31 > 0:13:35..you wouldn't get in small towns or villages.
0:13:36 > 0:13:40There are advantages, but we've put them in the wrong places...
0:13:41 > 0:13:43..and we've allowed too many of them.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47That's a big weakness in the Planning Act.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51In Britain, and America in particular...
0:13:51 > 0:13:56..the idea is to allow big businesses to do what they like.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00Research by Taro Naw shows that local authorities in Wales...
0:14:00 > 0:14:02..are considering 29 planning applications...
0:14:02 > 0:14:04..for out-of-town stores.
0:14:05 > 0:14:07Until recently, Caernarfon was among them...
0:14:07 > 0:14:12..but local opposition meant it was rejected.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17In his food shop in Porthmadog, Geraint Hughes is aware...
0:14:17 > 0:14:20..of the threat that's posed by supermarkets...
0:14:20 > 0:14:25..and suggests other options should have been considered.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28We've missed an opportunity to try something different.
0:14:28 > 0:14:33Almost every town in Wales now has a supermarket...
0:14:33 > 0:14:38..so we could stand up and say, "We're not having a supermarket."
0:14:38 > 0:14:43We could have tried to develop things that make us different.
0:14:43 > 0:14:48It was disappointing that the argument wasn't put forward.
0:14:48 > 0:14:53You'll hear the same complaint from one shop to another.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55The business tax is too high.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58The Welsh Government is investigating this.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01There is a strong argument for cutting the tax...
0:15:01 > 0:15:04..because shops contribute to the economy in other ways...
0:15:05 > 0:15:07..such as attracting people into the towns...
0:15:07 > 0:15:10..which adds to the vibrancy of towns...
0:15:10 > 0:15:13..and to taxes in other ways.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17There's a definitely a reason to look into cutting business tax...
0:15:17 > 0:15:20..because a small shop in Porthmadog...
0:15:20 > 0:15:25..faces a tax bill of £3,000 to £4,000 to begin with.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29Imagine how much one needs to sell...
0:15:29 > 0:15:32..just to pay the tax.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36But it's not such a bleak picture everywhere.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39Some town are flourishing, even in the recession...
0:15:40 > 0:15:44..and the high street is still at the heart of the community.
0:15:44 > 0:15:50Selling the high street to visitors and shoppers pays dividends.
0:15:51 > 0:15:55There's plenty to attract shoppers to the market in Mold.
0:15:55 > 0:16:01They come from all over and the high street is also busy.
0:16:01 > 0:16:05There are very few empty units here...
0:16:05 > 0:16:08..and many are independent shops.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12And that is despite the fact that there are supermarkets...
0:16:12 > 0:16:15..like Tesco, Somerfield and Lidl in the area.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19The financial crisis casts a shadow over Mold, like the rest of Wales...
0:16:20 > 0:16:24..but our research and the results of that research...
0:16:24 > 0:16:29..suggests Mold could provide leadership...
0:16:29 > 0:16:31..for the rest of Wales.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36Rhian Spaven is getting a taste of business - literally.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39She owns a sweet shop.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42She and her husband transformed the family newsagents...
0:16:43 > 0:16:45..after seeing customers buying papers elsewhere.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48To stay in business...
0:16:48 > 0:16:52..she created this paradise for those with a sweet tooth.
0:16:52 > 0:16:54Being friendly is very important.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58Everyone wants to feel that they're important.
0:16:58 > 0:17:03And they're all important - every customer is very important.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06That's how we want them to feel.
0:17:06 > 0:17:11I think a shop like this would work anywhere.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14We're looking into creating a franchise.
0:17:15 > 0:17:19You've also got to know where you're taking the business.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22You can't stand still.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26We started in a much smaller shop than the one we have now.
0:17:27 > 0:17:32Every year, we think, what can we do this year to make it better?
0:17:33 > 0:17:38But you have to have a go. I want to be like Willy Wonka!
0:17:38 > 0:17:43A stone's throw away from the sweet shop is Arwel Owen's wine shop.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47He was a fitness centre manager before venturing into business.
0:17:47 > 0:17:52He says his shop's location is part of his success.
0:17:53 > 0:17:59I've come in from high street now into the Gwinology shop in Mold.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03The owner is Arwel Owen. How is business at the moment?
0:18:03 > 0:18:06It's not too bad. I've seen worse times.
0:18:06 > 0:18:10Things are going in the right direction, so we're OK.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12How so?
0:18:12 > 0:18:16As a town, it all helps, what we have in the area.
0:18:16 > 0:18:21We have so many independent shops that are a little different.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24We attract people from local villages. We're quite pro-active.
0:18:24 > 0:18:26That keeps customers in the town.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31Business people here cooperate to keep the high street busy.
0:18:31 > 0:18:35John Les is a pub landlord, but he's also on several...
0:18:35 > 0:18:38..local business committees, including the large food festival.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42He says only 6% of Mold's shops are empty...
0:18:42 > 0:18:46..and that a town centre manager ensures that everyone cooperates.
0:18:46 > 0:18:51Yes, businesses are competing against each other...
0:18:51 > 0:18:55..but let's get people into Mold first and then we can argue...
0:18:56 > 0:18:58..over where they're going to buy food...
0:18:58 > 0:19:02..where they're going to drink, where they're going to stay.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06But get people in, and then you can do something.
0:19:06 > 0:19:08Flintshire County Council...
0:19:08 > 0:19:11..has earmarked eight towns to be regenerated.
0:19:11 > 0:19:16Each one has a manager and each one is trying to attract shoppers...
0:19:16 > 0:19:20..by offering choice, events and a reason for visiting.
0:19:20 > 0:19:25You have to create a reason. Today, we have a market.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28There's a livestock market here twice a week.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31Yes, it's unwieldy and there are parking problems.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35But the agricultural community comes to the centre of Mold.
0:19:35 > 0:19:41Plans are underway to ensure that Mold high street succeeds...
0:19:41 > 0:19:45..with the help of a town manager and extensive marketing.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48But what about the future? Over to our expert.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52You've just arrived in Mold. What are your first impressions?
0:19:53 > 0:19:58I've walked down the high street, and it's very busy.
0:19:58 > 0:20:02It's full of colour. The shops are well decorated.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06They have selected and chosen their goods very carefully.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09They've taken pride in their windows.
0:20:09 > 0:20:15The whole spirit here fills you with hope about the future.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20Does that mean that if a town is going to succeed...
0:20:20 > 0:20:23..it needs some kind of image or focus?
0:20:23 > 0:20:27Definitely. The town needs cohesion.
0:20:27 > 0:20:29Like we were saying yesterday...
0:20:29 > 0:20:33..it's very important to have someone to lead the town...
0:20:33 > 0:20:37..and create a pattern and a plan for the future.
0:20:37 > 0:20:41That way, everyone is aiming for the same thing.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43To attract people into Mold.
0:20:43 > 0:20:50Not only the people who live here but people on the outskirts.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54These children are certainly happy with the high street...
0:20:54 > 0:20:57..and these are the shoppers of the future.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00Across Wales, businesses, politicians and shoppers...
0:21:00 > 0:21:05..are eager to ensure that coming to a high street shop...
0:21:05 > 0:21:09..is a pleasant experience for years to come.
0:21:09 > 0:21:11People talk about parking...
0:21:11 > 0:21:14..and affordable housing to keep people here.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18But affordable housing and parking doesn't matter...
0:21:18 > 0:21:21..if there's nothing to attract people to the town.
0:21:21 > 0:21:26So it's back to basics to get the town to appeal to everyone.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30I feel frustrated about Caernarfon...
0:21:31 > 0:21:35..because it has a lot of the ingredients you need...
0:21:35 > 0:21:38..for a successful town, but something's not clicking.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41Everyone in the town is trying hard...
0:21:41 > 0:21:45..and people who live in the town support the town.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49They go to the butchers, the greengrocers and the small shops.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54I think the customers like coming into the town to shop.
0:21:54 > 0:22:00We have just distributed 40,000 newspapers...
0:22:00 > 0:22:04..in the north of England, from Birmingham to Blackpool.
0:22:05 > 0:22:09There's a possibility of attracting 15 million people here to Mold.
0:22:09 > 0:22:11That's what we're doing.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Local people support us, local people work for us.
0:22:15 > 0:22:19Welsh is the language in our shop like many other shops.
0:22:20 > 0:22:21The council needs to realise...
0:22:22 > 0:22:25..the importance of these kinds of shops.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49S4C subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:22:50 > 0:22:50.