0:00:02 > 0:00:05Competing in eisteddfodau and getting on stage...
0:00:06 > 0:00:09..is an important part of children's lives throughout Wales.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15But there's been a call for basic changes to ensure fair play...
0:00:15 > 0:00:18..for competitors in one of Wales's main festivals.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22When you have problems with intonation...
0:00:22 > 0:00:26..basic mistakes in the music and those children go through...
0:00:26 > 0:00:28..then that's wrong.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30Pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33Unfortunately, there are quite a few in Wales.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36If everybody goes on that bandwagon...
0:00:36 > 0:00:38..you might as well say goodbye to the Urdd.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41The Urdd is under fire.
0:00:41 > 0:00:43Due to the subject matter and complaints...
0:00:43 > 0:00:47..the movement refused us permission to film the eisteddfod.
0:00:47 > 0:00:51We've found discontentment about the standard of adjudicators...
0:00:51 > 0:00:55..and the police are investigating after competing went too far.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58You hear about the letters people receive.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00It scares me how many letters there are.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05Subtitles
0:01:03 > 0:01:05Subtitles
0:01:09 > 0:01:11Subtitles
0:01:09 > 0:01:11Subtitles
0:01:28 > 0:01:31A Saturday morning on Anglesey.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34The Eisteddfod Bro Llandegfan is about to start.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37It's a big day for the competitors.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41The next competition is the Year 2 Solo.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45It's also a busy day for one of the adjudicators...
0:01:46 > 0:01:48..they'll be trying to impress.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Is it going to be good? Who knows?
0:01:51 > 0:01:53It's a very long day.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57You start 12 hours of adjudicating in the morning.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01You have to be focussing on the work and concentrating.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05It is a responsibility in that you want to be fair...
0:02:05 > 0:02:09..to each competitor as well being true to oneself.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Judging the competitors is the musician and choir leader...
0:02:19 > 0:02:20..Trystan Lewis.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24To secure the expertise of adjudicators of his standard...
0:02:25 > 0:02:28..organisers are willing to pay £100 or more.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31We try to pay a respectable amount....
0:02:31 > 0:02:34..in order to attract judges of a high standard.
0:02:34 > 0:02:38I think that helps the competitors as they receive...
0:02:39 > 0:02:43..constructive adjudication. It also attracts competitors.
0:02:43 > 0:02:47An audience likes to see an adjudicator of a high standard...
0:02:47 > 0:02:51..and if you have to pay to get them, then so be it.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55But the same can't be said for every Urdd eisteddfod.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59Because the fee is so low in some of them...
0:02:59 > 0:03:02..Trystan Lewis declines the invitation.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06When you receive £10 or £15 after a long day of adjudication...
0:03:06 > 0:03:08..well, it's an insult.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12I know several judges who no longer adjudicate.
0:03:12 > 0:03:17As a result, we have inexperienced adjudicators...
0:03:17 > 0:03:22..who maybe judge recitation one week cerdd dant the following week.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25There isn't any expertise in that.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27They can't be an expert in their field...
0:03:27 > 0:03:32..or know about the pieces, so the competitors are wronged.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38He says that usually happens at the beginning of the process...
0:03:39 > 0:03:41..in the district eisteddfodau.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44So many are held on the same weekend...
0:03:45 > 0:03:47..a sizeable group of judges is needed.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51Trystan Lewis says high competitor numbers means mistakes are made.
0:03:52 > 0:03:56Basic errors are made during a district eisteddfod.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58This piece, Y Pyped, for Years 5 and 6.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01I heard in some district eisteddfodau of children...
0:04:02 > 0:04:05..getting through despite with this piece despite singing a wrong note.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09There is a C sharp and most of the children sang...
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Then they went...
0:04:12 > 0:04:14Rather than singing, "My master".
0:04:15 > 0:04:17That's a basic thing.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19It's a judge's opinion.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22A cultural competition isn't like Usain Bolt...
0:04:22 > 0:04:24..and first to cross the line.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27In the arts, we look at how the person ran...
0:04:27 > 0:04:29..not who arrived first.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32One person's opinion differs from the next.
0:04:33 > 0:04:38If a note is wrong, that child should be out of the competition.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42It's the same in recitation, if a wrong word is said.
0:04:42 > 0:04:46It's the same with being off-side in football. Rules are rules.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50Llanuwchllyn and the founder of the Urdd is prominent here.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54The National Eisteddfod is now an important part of the movement.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58But Taro 9 has heard complaints of inconsistencies...
0:04:58 > 0:05:00..in payments to judges.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03In Ceredigion, they can be paid up to £100 a day.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06In Arfon, the fee is £20.
0:05:06 > 0:05:11But one judge has told us he hasn't received one penny.
0:05:20 > 0:05:24Some adjudicators we've spoken to say this needs to change.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28District eisteddfodau are organized by groups of volunteers...
0:05:28 > 0:05:30..not the Urdd centrally.
0:05:30 > 0:05:34As far as I can see, the Urdd Eisteddfod...
0:05:34 > 0:05:37..nor the Urdd itself take little responsibility...
0:05:38 > 0:05:40..for the district and regional eisteddfodau.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44They don't seem to get any leadership by the Urdd.
0:05:44 > 0:05:51I feel it's now time the Urdd set some sort of formal guidelines...
0:05:51 > 0:05:54..for district and regional eisteddfodau...
0:05:54 > 0:05:59..for a fee, a set amount, and expenses, so it's consistent.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02Then they'll succeed, and I'm not talking about myself...
0:06:03 > 0:06:06..to attract reputable adjudicators who know their stuff...
0:06:06 > 0:06:11..and who will be fair with the competitors and the music.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17Squeeze your cheeks and vibrato it.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30The Urdd could attract people like this man.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33A full-time musician who travels as far as Norway to adjudicate.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37He's volunteered his time to coach local children...
0:06:38 > 0:06:40..to compete in the Urdd...
0:06:40 > 0:06:44.. but has never adjudicated for the Urdd due to the low fee.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46As a country, we're lucky to have the Urdd.
0:06:47 > 0:06:52But the Urdd wouldn't even consider...
0:06:53 > 0:06:56..calling a plumber or a carpenter to work on the Maes...
0:06:56 > 0:07:00..and expect them to do it for free. They're professionals.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04If you want a job done properly, you have to pay for it.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07I think it's exactly the same with adjudicators.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14He says the lack of professionalism can be seen in some results.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17You see it on an annual basis.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20People these days say if you compare results...
0:07:20 > 0:07:23..and someone's been wronged, they'll say...
0:07:24 > 0:07:26.."Another result in the Urdd".
0:07:26 > 0:07:30Somebody tends to look at the Urdd Eisteddfod now...
0:07:30 > 0:07:33..as somewhere competitors are wronged.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37People link that with the Urdd Eisteddfod and that says a lot.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42This is where I've been since 8.15am this morning.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44That's when I arrived.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47Here we are - Recital 1, Room 12.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50Not much glamour but this is the reality for judges.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53The loneliest seat in the world.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58The Powys Eisteddfod and a long day of competing ahead.
0:07:58 > 0:08:02The adjudicator is a veteran with 30 years of experience.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05For her, judging at Urdd Eisteddfodau is a chance...
0:08:06 > 0:08:09..to repay thanks and the fee is acceptable.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11You start a ball rolling.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13Where will that ball stop?
0:08:13 > 0:08:17Perhaps the next step will be teachers...
0:08:17 > 0:08:21..who coach children for hours, asking for overtime.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24Can I have double pay for coaching?
0:08:24 > 0:08:29Eisteddfodau grow from the amateur tradition in the best sense...
0:08:29 > 0:08:33..of the word. They grow from the people.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36If somebody adjudicates at an eisteddfod...
0:08:37 > 0:08:41..they shouldn't expect a professional fee, in my opinion.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46I'm putting giving back to repay what I gained from eisteddfodau.
0:08:46 > 0:08:50The confidence to appear on stage, the confidence to talk as I am now.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53That's all down to the eisteddfodau.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56This is my chance, for nearly 35 years, to give something back.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01We've enquired right across Wales and it is apparent that...
0:09:01 > 0:09:03..this is a sensitive issue.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Several people said they're reluctant to talk to us...
0:09:07 > 0:09:10..as they're worried about criticizing the Urdd...
0:09:10 > 0:09:14..and are worried their children may suffer in future eisteddfodau.
0:09:18 > 0:09:22So how does the Urdd, Europe's largest cultural youth festival...
0:09:23 > 0:09:27..compare with some of the other festivals in Britain?
0:09:28 > 0:09:34Many belong to a federation that has an official list of judges.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38The fee they suggest for a day's adjudicating is £200...
0:09:38 > 0:09:42..compared with £20 a day for the Urdd Eisteddfod.
0:09:43 > 0:09:46It survives and thrives on the benefit of the quality...
0:09:46 > 0:09:49..of the services the festivals provide to the performers.
0:09:50 > 0:09:55A very, very important part of that is the quality of the adjudicators.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59Many, many festivals see that as the most important part...
0:10:00 > 0:10:04..of the service they provide and are prepared to...
0:10:04 > 0:10:08..you know, pay for that quality.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12A music adjudicator at this year's National Eisteddfod...
0:10:13 > 0:10:17..and a member of the federation says the same attitude...
0:10:17 > 0:10:20..is needed in Wales. He used to adjudicate for the Urdd...
0:10:21 > 0:10:24..but now refuses to do so, partly due to the fee.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28The Government has placed such an emphasis on education...
0:10:28 > 0:10:33..and that's our role as judges, to educate children and adults...
0:10:33 > 0:10:35..on how to improve their craft.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39And this is a good idea.
0:10:39 > 0:10:43We are educating children about Welsh culture...
0:10:43 > 0:10:46..whether it's recital or whatever the field...
0:10:46 > 0:10:49..so give us more money to pay these people.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52Give us money to show our appreciation...
0:10:52 > 0:10:55..instead of saying we don't have any.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58But the Urdd says this misinterprets their ethos.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02They deny there's evidence that poor adjudicators...
0:11:02 > 0:11:06..make bad decisions and that inconsistencies in fee payments...
0:11:06 > 0:11:10..are a problem as plenty of judges are willing to volunteer.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13It's a day of volunteering for the Urdd.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17We don't reimburse anyone for missing out on their wages.
0:11:17 > 0:11:22If somebody thinks that, they've misunderstood the role.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25The cost varies.
0:11:25 > 0:11:31Do you expect someone, say a vocal or reciting coach...
0:11:31 > 0:11:34..to give up a day's work to come to you...
0:11:34 > 0:11:38..for next to nothing as an adjudicator to support the Urdd?
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Would you do that as senior officer of the Urdd?
0:11:41 > 0:11:45Not for the Urdd but I have walked 200 miles for the Air Ambulance.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48I do volunteer for other organizations.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51But you have staff who are paid?
0:11:51 > 0:11:54Yes, because they work for us.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56For their skills and expertise.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59That's why all people are employed.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03But you could argue that adjudicators are skilled.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06If we employed full-time adjudicators...
0:12:06 > 0:12:09..for the Urdd Eisteddfod, we'd pay them a wage.
0:12:09 > 0:12:11But that's not it.
0:12:11 > 0:12:15Judges and everyone else volunteer for the Urdd.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19But there are now concerns that adjudicators won't volunteer...
0:12:19 > 0:12:22..for more sinister reasons -
0:12:22 > 0:12:25..anonymous threatening letters.
0:12:26 > 0:12:29This is so threatening to a young person...
0:12:29 > 0:12:31..who puts so much into their music.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57The Urdd National Eisteddfod in Boncath this year.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00Taro 9 wasn't given a warm welcome.
0:13:00 > 0:13:05We were investigating complaints that the Urdd's adjudication...
0:13:05 > 0:13:07..undermines the competing and is unfair.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11After originally agreeing to allow us to film at the Eisteddfod...
0:13:11 > 0:13:15..for a fee of £350, things changed after we told them...
0:13:15 > 0:13:17..what the programme was about.
0:13:17 > 0:13:21We were hoping to go on to the Eisteddfod maes in Pembrokeshire...
0:13:21 > 0:13:25..to get the views of visitors, competitors and adjudicators...
0:13:25 > 0:13:27..on this issue.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30However, the Urdd has refused to give us permission...
0:13:30 > 0:13:35..to go in there because of the nature of the issue.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38Why did you refuse to allow this programme to film...
0:13:38 > 0:13:41..on the Eisteddfod maes this year in Boncath?
0:13:41 > 0:13:44Because I don't feel it's a subject...
0:13:44 > 0:13:47..that the nation is particularly interested in.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50There are more important things to discuss, in my opinion.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54The Urdd Eisteddfod is important, crucially important...
0:13:54 > 0:13:57..and I'm paid to organise it, but at the end of the day...
0:13:57 > 0:13:59..it's a competition.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02Urgh, washing! Washing!
0:14:02 > 0:14:05I don't want to wash. I like being like this.
0:14:05 > 0:14:07To ensure the competition is fair...
0:14:07 > 0:14:10..there are increasing calls for better rules...
0:14:10 > 0:14:13..and for the dispute about payment to adjudicators...
0:14:14 > 0:14:16..to be a catalyst for basic change.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19I feel there is too much emphasis on the cream.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23The district eisteddfod is very important.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26That is where you win the battle with regard to the language.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29And that is the essence of the Urdd.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34Brian Morris has had a long association with the Urdd.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37For decades, he coached children as a teacher and headmaster.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41He's also been a recitation adjudicator.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44This element of fairness...
0:14:44 > 0:14:48..from the point of view of the child, the competitor, is crucial.
0:14:48 > 0:14:53There's nothing worse, for example, than seeing a competitor come in...
0:14:53 > 0:14:59..and a well-known coach or parent going down to the front...
0:14:59 > 0:15:05..showing themselves in hope of gaining an advantage.
0:15:06 > 0:15:08I feel, and this is one of the difficulties...
0:15:09 > 0:15:12..that you shouldn't be allowed to adjudicate in your own district.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18I've adjudicated in my district and seen a neighbour come in...
0:15:18 > 0:15:21..with her two granddaughters, smiling at me.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25There are pages of rules for the Urdd's list of competition pieces..
0:15:25 > 0:15:29..but there is no rule about where someone can adjudicate.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32We've heard examples of people adjudicating...
0:15:32 > 0:15:35..a few miles from their home, near the school where they teach...
0:15:36 > 0:15:39..and in one instance, someone was adjudicating...
0:15:39 > 0:15:41..while their cousin's daughter was on stage.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45If we are aware of problems, we obviously change things.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49I also have to say that sometimes when there is a link...
0:15:49 > 0:15:52..it works the other way and those people suffer...
0:15:52 > 0:15:54..because they know the adjudicator.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58So it works both ways. But we certainly don't want that.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02However, any adjudicator who goes around local eisteddfodau...
0:16:02 > 0:16:04..is going to know the children anyway...
0:16:04 > 0:16:08..whether it's because of where they live or not.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12We have small pool of adjudicators. We have to trust their integrity.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15But not everyone is willing to do that.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18We know about adjudicators...
0:16:18 > 0:16:21..who have received anonymous threatening letters.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24Following one regional eisteddfod this year...
0:16:24 > 0:16:28..this music teacher received a letter questioning his ability.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32He was also accused of having too close a connection with the area.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35I don't agree at all with what was said in the letter...
0:16:35 > 0:16:40..with regard to my professionalism, or any connection.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44If that person knew me better, they would realise...
0:16:44 > 0:16:48..that a lot of what they said were completely empty words.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51They completely misunderstood the situation.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55The letter refers to his connection with a vocal coach...
0:16:55 > 0:16:58..who had several pupils competing.
0:16:59 > 0:17:05I don't need any friend or person to show me favouritism.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10It makes me angry. It really makes me angry.
0:17:11 > 0:17:16"What on earth were you doing on Saturday?"
0:17:16 > 0:17:18Listen to this.
0:17:18 > 0:17:22"We considered contacting the press and the media...
0:17:22 > 0:17:27.."but we as a group have decided to send it to you this time."
0:17:27 > 0:17:31This time. So how many of these are going to arrive in the future?
0:17:31 > 0:17:33Or how many have been in the past?
0:17:34 > 0:17:36"We hope it will prick your conscience...
0:17:37 > 0:17:41.."and that in time, you'll be able to live with yourself."
0:17:41 > 0:17:45This is about adjudicating in an eisteddfod...
0:17:45 > 0:17:49..and maybe because someone's child didn't reach the stage...
0:17:49 > 0:17:51..or didn't win.
0:17:51 > 0:17:56We talked to another adjudicator who wanted to remain anonymous...
0:17:56 > 0:17:58..who received a series of nasty letters...
0:17:58 > 0:18:01..some of them anonymous and threatening...
0:18:01 > 0:18:04..that tried to persuade her to give up adjudicating.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08We can reveal that North Wales Police are investigating...
0:18:08 > 0:18:11..and that there are now calls for people to remain calm.
0:18:11 > 0:18:13Wales is a small country.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17It's difficult not to find connections.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20What's happened has made me more determined...
0:18:20 > 0:18:23..to support the Urdd and to go out and adjudicate.
0:18:23 > 0:18:27If people like me decide not to adjudicate...
0:18:27 > 0:18:30..in the end, it's going to affect the Urdd's ability...
0:18:31 > 0:18:32..to find adjudicators.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40From local eisteddfodau to the National Eisteddfod...
0:18:41 > 0:18:45..adjudicating is a difficult job and the responsibility is huge.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48To be selected on the British Federation of Festivals list...
0:18:48 > 0:18:52..applicants have to go through a day of tests.
0:18:53 > 0:18:58The selection day will entail the candidates...
0:18:59 > 0:19:01..probably sitting in this very room...
0:19:01 > 0:19:05..looking at DVDs of performances, coming in rapid succession.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09They'll be required to prepare written adjudications...
0:19:09 > 0:19:11..for those performances.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15As soon as they've finished one, they move on to another one.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19We're trying to emulate what would happen in a festival environment.
0:19:20 > 0:19:25But Taro Naw knows of inexperienced adjudicators...
0:19:25 > 0:19:29..who have adjudicated in an Urdd district eisteddfod...
0:19:30 > 0:19:33..without any instructions or guidelines.
0:19:33 > 0:19:38There are calls for more to be done to help adjudicators.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41I've been in several prelims...
0:19:41 > 0:19:45..where the adjudicator hasn't even looked at the child.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48They've had their head down and they've been writing.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52What kind of encouragement does that give the child?
0:19:52 > 0:19:55And then the adjudication at the end is one line and no more.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58Two, three, four, one.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00SINGING
0:20:00 > 0:20:02Be confident.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07One suggestion is to learn from the world of education...
0:20:07 > 0:20:11..to help adjudicators do their work for their own sake...
0:20:11 > 0:20:13..and the sake of the competitors.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16When we have exams in the school system...
0:20:17 > 0:20:21..we have to consider different factors like tone, accuracy...
0:20:21 > 0:20:24..dynamics, pitch and so on.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Maybe the adjudicators should be given a checklist...
0:20:28 > 0:20:34..so that they take a variety of things into account.
0:20:34 > 0:20:38There are guidelines with regard to some elements of some competitions.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Breaking the rules...
0:20:40 > 0:20:44..obviously, there are strict rules in the dancing competitions.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49But with recital, it's up to the adjudicator...
0:20:49 > 0:20:52..how he interprets the poem and that's it.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56He or she is the adjudicator and we have to accept their opinion.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00For many, the way forward is to co-operate...
0:21:00 > 0:21:03..to transfer skills to the next generation.
0:21:04 > 0:21:06The winner of the Llwyd o'r Bryn competition...
0:21:07 > 0:21:09..at this year's National Eisteddfod...
0:21:09 > 0:21:12..is being mentored by an experienced adjudicator...
0:21:12 > 0:21:16..and shadowed at a district eisteddfod.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19I've been mentored by Sian and it gave me that first step.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22I think there should be a list somewhere...
0:21:22 > 0:21:27..for the National Eisteddfod, the Urdd, local eisteddfodau.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30I think the Urdd and the National Eisteddfod in August...
0:21:30 > 0:21:32..could lead the way here.
0:21:32 > 0:21:36You usually have two adjudicators in most of the competitions here.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40There is one for the individual competitions in the Urdd.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44But there's an opportunity to see the cream of Wales at its best...
0:21:44 > 0:21:46..and give someone a shot.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49It happens anyway. It happens on an informal level.
0:21:50 > 0:21:52But it happens in the district eisteddfod.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55If there is an experienced adjudicator...
0:21:55 > 0:21:58..and an inexperienced one, you can see them...
0:21:58 > 0:21:59But it's pure luck.
0:21:59 > 0:22:03Maybe, but it does happen. If you want something formal, fine.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06The district eisteddfod might not be the place to start...
0:22:07 > 0:22:09..but in the local eisteddfodau.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13The Urdd has been nurturing talent for almost a century.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16Some say the challenge for the festival...
0:22:16 > 0:22:18..is to ensure fairness in the future.
0:22:18 > 0:22:23Everything develops and the Urdd has to move with the times.
0:22:24 > 0:22:30Especially at a time when the language itself is fragile.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33I think we need to sit down and discuss it.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36But I don't think we'll resolve the issue...
0:22:36 > 0:22:38..by banging the table...
0:22:38 > 0:22:40..and screaming and shouting at each other.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43If there's a huge exodus, then obviously...
0:22:43 > 0:22:47..we'll look at the situation, but that isn't the situation.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50One or two may feel that way, but that's life.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53The Urdd can't ignore this any longer.
0:22:53 > 0:22:57They can't say, "There's a bloke from Deganwy making a fuss."
0:22:57 > 0:23:01The Urdd has to realise that people feel strongly about this...
0:23:01 > 0:23:02..and it has to respond.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27S4C subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:23:27 > 0:23:27.