0:00:00 > 0:00:02Subtitles
0:00:00 > 0:00:02Subtitles
0:00:03 > 0:00:06Four years ago, this man told Taro Naw...
0:00:07 > 0:00:11..he had been falsely prosecuted by one of Britain's main institutions.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13He spent three years in prison.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17If I'd taken that money, I'd have had a better life than I've had.
0:00:17 > 0:00:21But I can tell you now, hand on heart, I didn't take it.
0:00:21 > 0:00:25This led to a Taro Naw investigation which revealed...
0:00:25 > 0:00:28..that there have been dozens of similar cases across Britain.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Tonight: Evidence and new cases...
0:00:31 > 0:00:34..and the story about how one man took his campaign...
0:00:35 > 0:00:36..to the corridors of power.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40The institution that prosecuted him has now changed its views.
0:00:40 > 0:00:44It's a disgrace. Not only my case, but these other people too.
0:00:44 > 0:00:48We can reveal tonight that the strain caused one of those people...
0:00:48 > 0:00:51..to try and kill himself a fortnight ago.
0:01:20 > 0:01:24Noel Thomas has devoted much of his life to the Post Office.
0:01:24 > 0:01:29He spent 40 years serving the public and says it was a pleasure.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32It gave me a great deal of pleasure, to be honest.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35You got the chance to discuss everything.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38You got to hear local stories and funny stories...
0:01:38 > 0:01:41..whether you wanted to or not!
0:01:43 > 0:01:46He was a postman before becoming a subpostmaster...
0:01:46 > 0:01:50..and a local councillor for the village of Gaerwen on Anglesey.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54It was a pleasure to represent Gaerwen.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58I hope I fought hard for Gaerwen at all times.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01It was a pleasure to be on Anglesey Council.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04But the last few years have been hard.
0:02:04 > 0:02:06He lost his job and as a result...
0:02:06 > 0:02:10..the old post office he used to run has closed.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16His world fell apart when his employer prosecuted him...
0:02:16 > 0:02:19..claiming that £48,000 was missing from his post office.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24Overnight, he went from being a highly respected councillor...
0:02:24 > 0:02:28..to being a criminal locked up in prison.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31The family was left behind to face the problem.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35They had to face people and it was difficult.
0:02:35 > 0:02:40To be honest, my wife found it very difficult to deal with.
0:02:41 > 0:02:46But I had family and friends and we got through it.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50From the very beginning, he's insisted...
0:02:50 > 0:02:54..that the Post Office's Horizon computer system was responsible...
0:02:54 > 0:02:56..for the inconsistencies.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59Fujitsu designed the system and it was introduced...
0:02:59 > 0:03:03..to British post offices from 1995 onwards.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06It arrived in Gaerwen in the year 2000.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09By 2005, there was a problem.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12Losing money and losing money.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15And we didn't know where it was going.
0:03:15 > 0:03:20You'd lose between £2,000 and £3,000 a month.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22It would just disappear from the account?
0:03:22 > 0:03:24Yes.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28He phoned the Post Office helpline time and time again...
0:03:28 > 0:03:30..and was told not to worry...
0:03:30 > 0:03:33..and that everything would settle in time.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36He felt he had to sign that the balance was correct...
0:03:36 > 0:03:38..at the end of every day...
0:03:38 > 0:03:42..or he wouldn't be able to open the shop the following day.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46The problems continued and in the end...
0:03:46 > 0:03:48..the accountants came in.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51He was charged with stealing £48,000.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53He was also charged with false accounting...
0:03:54 > 0:03:57..on the basis that he agreed that the accounts were correct...
0:03:57 > 0:03:59..when they weren't.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02In court, the Post Office dropped the charge of theft...
0:04:03 > 0:04:07..but on legal advice, Noel Thomas pleaded guilty to false accounting.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11He spent three months in prison and was declared bankrupt.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14The biggest mistake I made was signing the papers.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18If I hadn't, I would not have been charged with false accountancy.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22If I'd have closed the shop, it would have been better.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24We all had to try and carry on.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29But we didn't want to carry on because we knew where he was.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33And it was... It was... Sorry.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36It was a difficult job, to be honest with you...
0:04:36 > 0:04:40..because we knew he wasn't supposed to be there.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43They didn't realise at the time that others had been through...
0:04:44 > 0:04:47..the same thing until a letter arrived from England.
0:04:49 > 0:04:53Oh, wow! It was an incredible feeling.
0:04:53 > 0:04:57We were all sitting around a table here, going...
0:04:57 > 0:05:01.."Oh, my gosh! We're not the only ones going through this.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03"There are others going through it."
0:05:05 > 0:05:08That's when Taro Naw started investigating further...
0:05:09 > 0:05:11..and discovered that there was a pattern.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14Other people's lives had been destroyed...
0:05:14 > 0:05:16..and cases went back over a decade.
0:05:17 > 0:05:19Subpostmasters who'd been prosecuted...
0:05:19 > 0:05:23..for keeping false accounts under the exact same circumstances.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29We talked to dozens across Britain who'd been made bankrupt...
0:05:30 > 0:05:33..who'd lost their homes and were suffering from depression..
0:05:33 > 0:05:36..and they all thought they were alone.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40The system itself didn't seem to be working as it normally would work.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45We kept getting screens that would freeze and various other things.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48We made substantial calls to the Horizon helpline.
0:05:48 > 0:05:53They know, I'm absolutely certain, they know how flawed the system is.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56They'll do anything to keep a lid on it...
0:05:56 > 0:05:59..regardless of how many lives they ruin along the way.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02Hello. I'm Jo.
0:06:01 > 0:06:02How are you?
0:06:02 > 0:06:06Noel Thomas and his daughter travelled to Hampshire...
0:06:06 > 0:06:08..to meet one of them.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11I didn't have any confidence in the helpdesk.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14I didn't really know where to turn for help.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17Although I knew the monies weren't there...
0:06:17 > 0:06:19..I knew I hadn't taken them.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23You couldn't open up the next day unless you agreed the figures...
0:06:23 > 0:06:25..which I then did.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28I paid the price for it eventually.
0:06:30 > 0:06:34She was also found guilty of keeping false accounts...
0:06:35 > 0:06:38..after £36,000 disappeared from the system.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40We are only scratching the surface.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44It's happened everywhere across the country, hasn't it?
0:06:44 > 0:06:48This man wrote to Noel Thomas a month earlier...
0:06:48 > 0:06:52..after doing further research into the case of the subpostmaster...
0:06:52 > 0:06:54..in his village.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58I found a whole lot of people, very similar to Jo.
0:06:58 > 0:07:02Middle-aged, middle-class, never put a foot wrong.
0:07:02 > 0:07:03Perfect characters.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07Often had been subpostmasters for a long time.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11All of whom suddenly turned into these criminals.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13It didn't make sense to me.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16By the time the original programme was broadcast...
0:07:16 > 0:07:21..we'd spoken with 31 subpostmasters who said the same.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24And the politicians were starting to respond.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27There's something going on...
0:07:28 > 0:07:31..and the Post Office has to answer the questions...
0:07:31 > 0:07:33..being asked by these people.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37But the Post Office denied that there was anything wrong...
0:07:38 > 0:07:41..and claimed the Horizon system was dependable.
0:07:41 > 0:07:45It refused to be interviewed four years ago...
0:07:45 > 0:07:49..but in the meantime, the battle for justice intensified.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57People saw, not in the village, but people we knew on Anglesey...
0:07:57 > 0:08:02..the map you showed and there were so many people on that...
0:08:02 > 0:08:05..who had had the same problem...
0:08:05 > 0:08:09..and it wasn't just them who were frightened.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13We'd found a few but it was an eye-opener.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16That started driving us forward even more.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21After years of trying to persuade people he was innocent...
0:08:21 > 0:08:24..her father felt hopeful once more.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28It raised my spirits and the family's spirits, to be honest.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33And the friends who stood by me through the trouble.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39There were responses from subpostmasters across Britain...
0:08:39 > 0:08:43..that we didn't know about before the programme.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Each one was glad the story had been made public...
0:08:46 > 0:08:49..and had believed they were the only ones in trouble.
0:08:49 > 0:08:55They contacted each other and slowly, more evidence emerged...
0:08:55 > 0:08:58..and more stories about lives that had been destroyed.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03And we received these - evidence in black and white.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07Something that's very rare because once the Post Office...
0:09:07 > 0:09:10..arrests someone, it claims all the paperwork.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14These are receipts from a post office in South Wales...
0:09:14 > 0:09:18..and according to the subpostmaster who sent them...
0:09:18 > 0:09:22..to us, they prove that there's something wrong with Horizon.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Inconsistencies emerged after a customer paid to send a parcel...
0:09:27 > 0:09:30..from a post office in Carmarthenshire in August 2009.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34Notice the time. 10.52am.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38Every payment has its own number.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41There's a black circle around the number in this case...
0:09:41 > 0:09:44..on the customer's receipt.
0:09:44 > 0:09:50The customer paid £9.31 and the parcel label shows the date...
0:09:50 > 0:09:56..how much was paid and once again, the unique number for the payment.
0:09:56 > 0:10:00However, that's not on the records of the subpostmaster.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04They go from a payment just before 10.45am..
0:10:04 > 0:10:06..straight to the next at 10.59am.
0:10:06 > 0:10:11There's no record of a payment at 10.52am.
0:10:11 > 0:10:15So there would be £9.31 too much in the till at the end of the day...
0:10:16 > 0:10:20..and nothing to show where it came from.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23It appears that the system can delete records of payments.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27According to subpostmasters, deficiencies like this...
0:10:27 > 0:10:30..could have led to losses of thousands of pounds.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34After realising that so many were saying the same thing...
0:10:34 > 0:10:38..the subpostmasters established a campaign group...
0:10:38 > 0:10:42..in order to get justice - Justice For Subpostmasters Alliance.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46During the last four years, they've been meeting regularly...
0:10:46 > 0:10:50..and they've now persuaded the Post Office to listen to them.
0:10:51 > 0:10:52Julien, how are you?
0:10:53 > 0:10:56This man is a prominent member of the JFSA.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00He's a former postmaster from Redditch in the Midlands.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03He contacted Taro Naw after seeing the original programme.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07I was told I was the only one.
0:11:07 > 0:11:12Then when your first programme highlighted the issue...
0:11:12 > 0:11:14..I discovered I wasn't alone.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17There were other people in the same situation as I was.
0:11:18 > 0:11:19We decided we would create...
0:11:20 > 0:11:23..the Justice For Subpostmasters Alliance...
0:11:23 > 0:11:29..because, individually, you cannot fight Post Office.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34He went through the courts and lost his livelihood.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36Things that could not be explained...
0:11:36 > 0:11:39..were happening with the Horizon system.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42The last thing I did on the Saturday...
0:11:42 > 0:11:46..before closing the post office was count the cash...
0:11:46 > 0:11:50..declare it on the system, you push a button...
0:11:50 > 0:11:54..and that prints you off a receipt and tells you what you've declared.
0:11:54 > 0:11:58And you put that in with your weekly paperwork...
0:11:58 > 0:12:01..ready for the balance the coming Wednesday.
0:12:01 > 0:12:06On the Monday, I go into the post office, switch the system on...
0:12:08 > 0:12:13..print that report off, having done no transactions on it...
0:12:13 > 0:12:19..and it was different to what I'd prepared on the Saturday.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22This continued.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26There were imbalances most weeks...
0:12:26 > 0:12:30..which is quite acceptable, but they started to get bigger.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35I raised this question with my line manager...
0:12:35 > 0:12:38..who visited on a regular basis.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41He said, "Don't worry about it.
0:12:41 > 0:12:44"The system will put itself right."
0:12:46 > 0:12:49In the end, the Post Office prosecuted him...
0:12:49 > 0:12:53..and like Noel Thomas, he pleaded guilty to keeping false accounts.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57He had to pay the Post Office almost £30,000...
0:12:57 > 0:13:00..and complete 200 hours of community service.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06The Post Office hasn't backed down.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10A subpostmistress on Anglesey has also been prosecuted.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12She's contacted the JFSA.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15There's one down the road from here, to be honest.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18My heart goes out to her.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22She's lost everything as well.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27Taro Naw has talked to Lorraine Williams from Llanddaniel.
0:13:27 > 0:13:31She couldn't be interviewed because she is still on probation.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38However, there's a sign that things could change...
0:13:38 > 0:13:43..and what started as one man's lonely battle has snowballed.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47Following Taro Naw's investigation, pressure from the JFSA...
0:13:48 > 0:13:51..support from MPs and wider attention in the media...
0:13:51 > 0:13:55..the 31 subpostmasters we found in 2009...
0:13:55 > 0:13:58..has now multiplied to almost 200...
0:13:58 > 0:14:02..and Taro Naw is still discovering new cases.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06Up until now I thought I was the only idiot...
0:14:06 > 0:14:10..who'd put himself in a situation to lose so much money.
0:14:11 > 0:14:15After years of denying anything was wrong with the system...
0:14:15 > 0:14:19..the Post Office had to make a dramatic statement over the summer.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24Someone, somewhere knows something's not right.
0:14:41 > 0:14:45They've sent people like me to jail.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48They've taken all our livelihoods.
0:14:48 > 0:14:53But other people, they've destroyed their lives...
0:14:53 > 0:14:56..and in my mind that's much worse than going to jail.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00Noel Thomas is one of several subpostmasters...
0:15:01 > 0:15:03..who've been prosecuted by the Post Office...
0:15:03 > 0:15:06..on charges of stealing or false accounting.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10He says he was wrongly jailed and he's battling to save...
0:15:10 > 0:15:11..his good name.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16A difficult time was returning to his community after leaving jail.
0:15:16 > 0:15:18That first step out of the door...
0:15:19 > 0:15:23..and saying that first 'hello' or 'how are you?' to people.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27Were you going to get a 'hello' in response or would...
0:15:28 > 0:15:30..somebody turn their back?
0:15:31 > 0:15:34What was the lowest point while you were in prison?
0:15:34 > 0:15:38Arriving in Walton, I think.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41He was in his cell for 23 hours a day.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45The time dragged terribly there.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49There were very few people of my age in prison.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51The majority were young people.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53Ordinary people.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56And they could be pretty rough.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59How much of a support has your family been to you?
0:15:59 > 0:16:01A huge support.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04The children...
0:16:04 > 0:16:06..my sister-in-law...
0:16:07 > 0:16:10..my wife's cousins. They've all been very good.
0:16:14 > 0:16:19Earlier this year, the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance...
0:16:19 > 0:16:22..persuaded the Post Office to employ Second Sight...
0:16:22 > 0:16:26..a forensic accounting company, to investigate their claims.
0:16:26 > 0:16:2947 former subpostmasters presented their cases to the company.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32This was a turning point in their case for justice.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36This is the first independent investigation to be held.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42Yesterday evening, an interim report into alleged problems...
0:16:43 > 0:16:47..with the Post Office Horizon computer system was published.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49The report gave some unexpected news.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52After investigating four of the 47 cases...
0:16:53 > 0:16:57...up until now, they haven't found any systemic problems with Horizon.
0:16:57 > 0:17:02But they have come across two defects that led to problems...
0:17:02 > 0:17:04..in 76 post offices.
0:17:04 > 0:17:08It became clear that the Post Office was aware of the defects...
0:17:08 > 0:17:12..before Second Sight began their investigation.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15After years of denying anything was wrong with Horizon...
0:17:15 > 0:17:18..the Post Office has adopted a different stance.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21The very least Post Office Ltd should be doing...
0:17:22 > 0:17:25..is setting up a legal fund to review each of these cases...
0:17:25 > 0:17:29..because many will have pleaded guilty to false accounting...
0:17:29 > 0:17:33..given the situation with the system and legal advice received.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36I think the House is very concerned about ...
0:17:37 > 0:17:41..a very small number of people who've had their lives ruined.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43It's no good to say, "Oh, they can appeal."
0:17:44 > 0:17:47We need proactive action from the Government.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50I suggest she talks to the Attorney General to see...
0:17:51 > 0:17:53..if he can look into these cases.
0:17:52 > 0:17:53That's what you want.
0:17:54 > 0:17:55We're halfway there.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58We'll see what happens.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02The report also found the Post Office hadn't done enough...
0:18:03 > 0:18:05..to help the subpostmasters.
0:18:05 > 0:18:09As it can prosecute without contacting the police or CPS...
0:18:10 > 0:18:13..their accountants concentrated on getting the money back...
0:18:13 > 0:18:16..and prosecuting than tackling the real problem.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20The Post Office are only one of two organizations...
0:18:20 > 0:18:24..that I know of that can take people to court...
0:18:26 > 0:18:29..without using the Crown Prosecution Service.
0:18:29 > 0:18:34If the majority of these cases, I'm sure, were presented to the CPS...
0:18:34 > 0:18:37..they would throw them out.
0:18:37 > 0:18:41Post Office are unable to supply the evidence...
0:18:42 > 0:18:44..to back up their prosecution.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52The Post Office has admitted that software defects have affected...
0:18:52 > 0:18:56..a computer system that's been the cause of a prolonged dispute...
0:18:56 > 0:18:58..with some of its subpostmasters.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02I fell asleep in front of the TV recently.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06Suddenly I woke up and there was something on the news...
0:19:06 > 0:19:09..saying others were in the same hole I'd been in.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13This man from Mid Wales knew nothing about the other cases...
0:19:13 > 0:19:15..until this summer.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19Although he wants to remain anonymous, his story is familiar.
0:19:19 > 0:19:24When he realized the system said £17,000 was missing...
0:19:24 > 0:19:27..he called the accountants and the police immediately.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30The auditors looked at me threateningly...
0:19:30 > 0:19:32..as if I'd committed a crime.
0:19:32 > 0:19:36They weren't interested in finding out if anything was wrong...
0:19:36 > 0:19:39..with the computer, or offer me any help.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42The bottom line was, nobody from the Post Office believed...
0:19:43 > 0:19:45..the system could be wrong.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48The blame was placed squarely on the subpostmaster.
0:19:48 > 0:19:53In order to avoid going to court he gave the Post Office £17,000...
0:19:53 > 0:19:56..of his life savings, closed the shop...
0:19:56 > 0:19:58..and never worked for them again.
0:19:58 > 0:20:02But a month ago, after contacting us, he made another discovery...
0:20:02 > 0:20:04..that surprised him.
0:20:04 > 0:20:08I've found out that the person who'd been there before me...
0:20:08 > 0:20:12..had lost almost the same amount and the Post Office knew about it.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15She'd had to repay it. There's a pattern here.
0:20:15 > 0:20:19If you'd signed off that the accounts were right...
0:20:19 > 0:20:21..you'd be in trouble.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23I'd be in jail.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26The Post Office would have been happy to say...
0:20:26 > 0:20:28..fraud and false accounting.
0:20:28 > 0:20:32You can't sign something's right if it isn't right.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37Second Sight will present a further report to Parliament...
0:20:38 > 0:20:39..during the next few weeks.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42Meanwhile, a mediation panel...
0:20:42 > 0:20:45..will consider every individual case.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50The mediation panel has been set up by JFSA...
0:20:50 > 0:20:54..Second Sight, who are the forensic accountants...
0:20:54 > 0:20:57..doing the investigation on behalf of Post Office...
0:20:58 > 0:21:03..our forensic accountant, the MPs and Post Office.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06How that will work is...
0:21:06 > 0:21:09..that all of us that are involved in this process...
0:21:10 > 0:21:13..will have to apply to this working party...
0:21:14 > 0:21:17..for our case to be registered with them.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19This isn't the end of it.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22There's quite a long way to go yet.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25But we're hopeful. One step at a time.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29This is the biggest hope for justice and compensation.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32Noel Thomas has brought his mediation pack...
0:21:32 > 0:21:36..to solicitor, Eilian Williams, to ensure he's filled it in properly.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39Because the Post Office has offered you...
0:21:40 > 0:21:43..this type of review...
0:21:43 > 0:21:45..you haven't got much to lose.
0:21:46 > 0:21:50The closing date to present your case before the panel...
0:21:50 > 0:21:52..is 18th November.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55Taro 9 understands that nearly 200 subpostmasters...
0:21:56 > 0:21:57..have applied for a pack.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00From the nature of the document...
0:22:00 > 0:22:03..there is a promise made by the Post Office...
0:22:03 > 0:22:06..to try and talk to those affected...
0:22:06 > 0:22:10..to respond to their complaints in a clear manner.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13But it's clear they're avoiding the legal wrangling...
0:22:14 > 0:22:17..that could arise following the accusations and suggestions...
0:22:18 > 0:22:19..the system is defective.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23The David and Goliath battle is timeless.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27One subpostmaster who's facing prosecution attempted suicide...
0:22:27 > 0:22:29..two weeks ago.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33I've had an email from the subpostmaster's family about this..
0:22:33 > 0:22:36..awful incident.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39And I know how deep the anguish is...
0:22:40 > 0:22:44..that has been caused to a lot of subpostmasters across the country..
0:22:44 > 0:22:47..by what's happened in many of these case.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51Although he welcomes the Post Office's commitment...
0:22:51 > 0:22:55..into further investigations, he is disappointed...
0:22:55 > 0:22:58..with some of the findings in Second Sight's report.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01The Post Office did know there were bugs in the system...
0:23:02 > 0:23:05..and I was very surprised to hear they knew that...
0:23:05 > 0:23:08..and hadn't told me that or told other MPs that.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13One question still angers Noel Thomas.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17If the postmasters hadn't been stealing, where's the money gone?
0:23:18 > 0:23:21They don't know more than me where it's gone.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24I'd like to know where it's gone.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28Noel Thomas has been asking this for nearly a decade.
0:23:28 > 0:23:33It's been four years since Taro 9 and MPs started asking the same.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37We asked for an interview with the Post Office back in July...
0:23:38 > 0:23:40..but like last time, they refused.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43Then a few days ago they reconsidered...
0:23:43 > 0:23:46..but it was too late for this programme.
0:23:46 > 0:23:51They have responded to many questions raised by Taro 9.
0:23:51 > 0:23:56They said they were continuing with about 50 prosecutions a year.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59They say it's a small number of the 11,800...
0:23:59 > 0:24:03..post office branches they have throughout Britain.
0:24:03 > 0:24:08If there are any doubts any crime has been committed...
0:24:08 > 0:24:10..they have a duty to prosecute.
0:24:11 > 0:24:14They added that an independent investigation had failed...
0:24:14 > 0:24:17..to find any systemic defects with Horizon.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20They didn't mention they'd told investigators...
0:24:21 > 0:24:25..there bugs in the system that affected branches.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29The Post Office stressed they had introduced further improvements...
0:24:29 > 0:24:32..to their training programme and support...
0:24:32 > 0:24:36..and they'd set up a mediation plan with the JFSA.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39What I'd like, more than anything, is to get the money back...
0:24:40 > 0:24:43..and for them to admit they're wrong, for them to apologize.
0:24:44 > 0:24:45That's what I'd like.
0:24:45 > 0:24:49Firstly, we want our names cleared.
0:24:50 > 0:24:54Because we actually didn't do anything wrong.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57We've not stolen a penny from Post Office.
0:24:58 > 0:25:02Two - we all want our lives back.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05Because over the last five years, in my case...
0:25:05 > 0:25:10..the affect the actions Post Office have taken on us...
0:25:10 > 0:25:12..has been horrendous.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15Absolutely horrendous.
0:25:16 > 0:25:22Finally, we want recognition of what has happened to us...
0:25:22 > 0:25:24..by Post Office.
0:25:24 > 0:25:26And that can only be achieved...
0:25:27 > 0:25:30..by means of a financial settlement.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33We are all, one million per cent, behind my father.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37Not one us turned around, even for a second...
0:25:37 > 0:25:39..to say he's guilty.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43He is no longer a voice in the wilderness.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47Noel Thomas is one of dozens who want more than money.
0:25:47 > 0:25:50Why are you still fighting?
0:25:50 > 0:25:52My self-respect.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56To retain my good name, hopefully.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58We're halfway there.
0:26:19 > 0:26:22S4C subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
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