:00:37. > :00:47.Good morning, welcome. Before we get going properly today, I'd like
:00:47. > :00:54.
:00:54. > :00:58.just to pause and ask you to listen That is the sound of the greatest
:00:58. > :01:02.sax player in the history of rock music, in my view anyway! His name
:01:02. > :01:05.was Clarence Clemons, he was a big man and he died last night after a
:01:05. > :01:10.lifetime of producing some of the most glorious noises any human
:01:10. > :01:12.being has made. Joining me today for our review of the Sunday
:01:12. > :01:14.newspapers, the broadcaster and former Tory Cabinet Minister
:01:14. > :01:21.Michael Portillo, the Labour MP Yasmin Qureshi, and the columnist
:01:21. > :01:24.David Aaronovitch. No riots here just now but some pretty aggressive
:01:24. > :01:31.warnings of waves of strikes later this month, a confrontation as
:01:31. > :01:33.significant as the general strike of 1926. Well, we'll see. The
:01:33. > :01:38.Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls, who joins us today, warns unions
:01:38. > :01:41.they're being lured into a trap. He wants a VAT tax cut but he's been
:01:41. > :01:46.strongly attacked as a deficit denier in an increasingly bitter
:01:46. > :01:49.row over economic strategy. But what of the public sector unions
:01:49. > :01:54.themselves, whose members are being asked to pay more towards pensions
:01:54. > :01:57.and work longer? I'll be joined by Mark Serwotka, the head of the PCS
:01:57. > :02:00.union, which is at the centre of all this. And as the House of Lords
:02:00. > :02:03.debates its future composition, I'll be joined by its leader, Lord
:02:03. > :02:06.Strathclyde. He admits that the reform deadline may be missed and
:02:06. > :02:10.that delivering what Nick Clegg wants will be very difficult. The
:02:10. > :02:12.Liberal Democrats won't like that. And one of the most creative and
:02:12. > :02:15.unpredictable names in British music will be here. Damon Albarn,
:02:15. > :02:18.former frontman of Blur, creator of Gorillaz and a Chinese-themed opera,
:02:18. > :02:28.has composed what he calls a new English opera based on the life of
:02:28. > :02:42.
:02:42. > :02:45.an Elizabethan legend, the magician Poetry and politics. First, the
:02:45. > :02:48.news with Naga Munchetty. Good morning. Libyan officials
:02:48. > :02:51.claim several people were killed when a NATO airstrike destroyed a
:02:51. > :02:54.house in Tripoli. Nato has confirmed it was operating there,
:02:54. > :02:56.and says it's looking into the claims. Journalists were taken to a
:02:56. > :03:05.residential area where people were digging through the rubble with
:03:05. > :03:10.their bare hands. Jeremy Bowen reports. Local people said the
:03:10. > :03:13.explosion happened at just after 1am. This is a residential area
:03:13. > :03:19.about one mile from a military airfield which has often been
:03:19. > :03:23.targeted by NATO. Journalists were able to work freely at the site, we
:03:23. > :03:27.were taken there by the Libyan authorities. The body of a woman
:03:27. > :03:33.was pulled out of the wreckage. The building which was destroyed looked
:03:33. > :03:38.like a family home. A neighbour, who was also killed, worked for the
:03:38. > :03:43.government. Fire and rescue workers searched for survivors or more
:03:43. > :03:48.bodies under the rubble. It looked like the result of an air strike or
:03:48. > :03:53.missile attack. NATO's mandate is to protect civilians, so if this is
:03:53. > :03:58.what it seems more questions will be raised about what it is
:03:58. > :04:06.achieving. There might be more pressure for a diplomatic solution.
:04:06. > :04:09.This is no kind of pro-Gaddafi stronghold. There have been no pro
:04:09. > :04:13.regime demonstrations since we arrived, since this has happened,
:04:13. > :04:17.and the number of people have spoken to me about their opposition
:04:17. > :04:23.to the Colonel and their desire to see him overthrown. Afterwards we
:04:23. > :04:27.were taken to Tripoli central hospital. A husband, wife and baby
:04:27. > :04:32.were all dead in the mortuary. Another dead baby was brought in.
:04:32. > :04:35.Doctors were working on a man with a bad wound in his arm. Libyan
:04:35. > :04:39.officials said there were other casualties. The government
:04:39. > :04:42.spokesman said the attack had planted seeds of hatred.
:04:42. > :04:46.Here, the Government has been warned that the current approach to
:04:46. > :04:49.treating drug addicts isn't working. The Centre for Policy Studies says
:04:49. > :04:54.more than �3 billion a year is wasted on treatment programmes in
:04:54. > :05:03.England, involving drug substitutes such as methadone. The think tank
:05:03. > :05:07.believes the money would be better spent on drug rehab centres. The
:05:07. > :05:13.policy of prescribing the heroin substitute methadone has been an
:05:13. > :05:18.expensive failure, according to today's report. It says prescribing
:05:18. > :05:23.that treatment impedes and delays adits' recovery. It says fewer than
:05:23. > :05:29.4% of people finish treatment free from dependency and it is time for
:05:29. > :05:33.the coalition to focus on rehabilitation. The aspiration for
:05:33. > :05:38.people on the current system is extremely low and the scale of
:05:38. > :05:42.people in the rehab centres, who can help people change themselves
:05:42. > :05:46.personally and get out of this destructive pattern, is very
:05:46. > :05:53.underrated and on the used at the moment. The report estimates that
:05:53. > :05:58.in England prescribing methadone cost �730 million a year. �1.7
:05:58. > :06:07.billion in benefit is paid to drug users, and it cost �1.2 billion a
:06:07. > :06:16.year to look after their children. The coalition's new plans argues
:06:16. > :06:23.the report will not work. Success or failure will be considered by
:06:23. > :06:26.whether drug-addict barring treatment. The report says
:06:26. > :06:35.abstinence based rehab is the long- term solution and a simple measure
:06:35. > :06:38.of success would be six months' free from drink and drug use.
:06:38. > :06:41.The shadow chancellor Ed Balls has accused the government of seeking
:06:42. > :06:46.confrontation with the unions over pension reform, but he has warned
:06:46. > :06:51.unions not to fall into what he called the Government's trap by
:06:51. > :06:55.going on strike. He says ministers are wrong to announce changes to
:06:55. > :06:58.pensions for nurses, teachers and other public sector workers, before
:06:58. > :07:00.talks with their unions have finished.
:07:00. > :07:03.European finance ministers will meet in Luxembourg today to discuss
:07:03. > :07:06.new measures to help the Greek government deal with its economic
:07:06. > :07:09.crisis. There are fears that, if Greece defaults, the stability of
:07:09. > :07:19.other countries in the eurozone will come under threat. The
:07:19. > :07:21.
:07:21. > :07:23.Chancellor George Osborne joins the meeting tomorrow morning.
:07:23. > :07:26.The saxophonist Clarence Clemons, whose solos featured on many of
:07:26. > :07:29.Bruce Springsteen's biggest hits, has died aged 69. Clemons was known
:07:29. > :07:32.as The Big Man because of his height and was an original member
:07:32. > :07:42.of the E Street Band. He had been admitted to hospital after
:07:42. > :07:45.suffering a stroke at his home in I will be back just before 10
:07:45. > :07:51.o'clock with the headlines. Now back to Andrew.
:07:51. > :07:59.Work longer and pay more - that was the message from the Treasury to
:07:59. > :08:09.public sector workers last week. I am joined now by mark, head of the
:08:09. > :08:11.
:08:11. > :08:15.PCS civil service union. -- Mark Serwotka. You have been warning of
:08:15. > :08:20.strikes later this month, and it has been compared to the General
:08:20. > :08:26.Strike in 1926, which seems wildly over-the-top. That is not language
:08:26. > :08:31.I have been using but there will be three-quarters of a million of
:08:31. > :08:34.workers on strike in 10 days' time. I think if the government is not
:08:34. > :08:42.prepared to change course in the negotiations, after that strike we
:08:42. > :08:46.will see unions representing millions more to ballot their
:08:46. > :08:51.members for later strikes. I think that could be in the millions.
:08:51. > :08:58.that would be the biggest such action since 1926? Historically,
:08:58. > :09:06.that would be the case. Four unions have already balloted and will be
:09:06. > :09:11.striking in 10 days' time. There is an economic case against the
:09:11. > :09:14.strikes, which is that it is unfair now for public sector workers to
:09:14. > :09:19.get more generous pension contributions than private sector
:09:19. > :09:22.workers. In the old days they were paid less, now on average they are
:09:22. > :09:26.paid more than private sector workers and they have these
:09:26. > :09:31.generous pensions. Why should taxpayers have to subsidise your
:09:31. > :09:35.members in that way? I think it is unfair that the people who did not
:09:35. > :09:40.cause any of the economic problems are being asked to pay the biggest
:09:40. > :09:46.price. In my union we are losing 100,000 jobs, we have had pay
:09:46. > :09:52.freezes, and now we are being that our pensions, which we negotiated
:09:52. > :09:55.only five years ago with the Labour government, which are costing the
:09:55. > :10:01.taxpayer less over the next 40 years as a proportion of GDP, they
:10:02. > :10:09.should not lose sacrificed because it is unfair. There is a knock on
:10:09. > :10:15.formed a deficit coming up to pay for these pensions. In the old days
:10:15. > :10:20.when people stopped working at 60, they often didn't live much longer.
:10:20. > :10:26.Working until 66 is an inevitable fact of life, isn't it? My father
:10:26. > :10:31.told me when I was young that as technology developed, and the world
:10:31. > :10:39.got richer, people should share in those benefits. My father worked
:10:39. > :10:45.for so long that after he retired he died within a year. Mind, too.
:10:45. > :10:49.If you have contractual promises, we shouldn't fall for that is what
:10:49. > :10:53.this is about. This is a crude effort to make public sector
:10:53. > :10:58.workers pay for deficit reduction. Is there room for negotiation on
:10:58. > :11:03.the subject of the average salary? And that you don't get your pension
:11:03. > :11:07.on the basis of your final salary, but the average salary you learn
:11:07. > :11:13.during your life. In the civil service we agreed that five years
:11:13. > :11:21.ago. We have career averaging. that is not a big issue? For us it
:11:21. > :11:28.is not, but the issue is that what the government are doing it is
:11:28. > :11:33.doubling the accrual rates which half the value of pensions.
:11:33. > :11:36.political case, which Ed Balls has described, is that you are walking
:11:36. > :11:40.straight into a government trap, that you are bound to be defeated
:11:40. > :11:45.eventually and this is exactly what the coalition government wants.
:11:45. > :11:50.They want to take on people like you, rather than defend their
:11:50. > :11:55.economic strategy. They may want to do that, they have no mandate, but
:11:55. > :12:00.if Ed Balls is me representing people, many of whom around �15,000
:12:00. > :12:04.a year, they work hard, they don't look forward to a big pension, if
:12:04. > :12:10.all that is being taken away and you work longer, what are we
:12:10. > :12:13.supposed to do? Should we sit back and do nothing? Is there any way
:12:13. > :12:18.that the strikes can be called off? What would the government have to
:12:19. > :12:22.do to achieve that? The government would have to say they are prepared
:12:22. > :12:27.to seriously negotiate, that they will not tell us in advance that
:12:27. > :12:33.everything will be worse, that they will look in a different direction.
:12:33. > :12:39.The chances of that are fewer than one, on a scale of 1-10. I think
:12:39. > :12:42.the demonstration on the 30th will show them the anger that exists,
:12:42. > :12:49.and tell Francis Maude and the others, who are frankly very well-
:12:49. > :12:52.off personally, they can't be right to make the poorest and most
:12:52. > :12:58.vulnerable and hard working pay a high price to solve the crisis they
:12:58. > :13:03.did nothing to create. Thank you. Front pages, lots of
:13:03. > :13:10.different stories today. The Sunday Telegraph leaves with David Cameron
:13:10. > :13:16.saying that absent fathers are as bad as drink-drivers. The Sunday
:13:16. > :13:20.Times also has David Cameron on the front page - David Cameron to give
:13:20. > :13:27.power to the people. This is the reform bill that has been much
:13:27. > :13:33.delayed, meant to hand power to people to pay for their own care.
:13:33. > :13:37.The Observer has a story about war crimes files as well. Scotland on
:13:37. > :13:46.Sunday says MPs are going to carpet the Prime Minister over the
:13:46. > :13:56.strategy of the Afghan war. The Express has a story - test drugs on
:13:56. > :13:58.
:13:58. > :14:07.Peps, says EU. Thousands of pets in Britain could be used in lab tests.
:14:07. > :14:17.To review those stories with me, Michael Portillo, Yasmin Qureshi,
:14:17. > :14:19.
:14:19. > :14:23.and David Aaronovitch. I was looking at a story with a great
:14:23. > :14:30.picture. It is about the strikes which are going to happen on 30th
:14:30. > :14:34.June. As you know, tomorrow there is a debate in Parliament on the
:14:34. > :14:38.pension bill. Do you agree there is a danger of the unions walking into
:14:38. > :14:43.a trap? I do agree with that because one thing you have noticed
:14:43. > :14:48.with the government is that the messages, the things they say, they
:14:48. > :14:51.seemed very unsympathetic to public services. There is a constant
:14:51. > :14:55.message that civil services are being overpaid and lazy, and you
:14:55. > :15:04.get that sort of message coming out and these radical reforms being
:15:04. > :15:09.made, I think it is sending the This bit of the crisis was kicked
:15:09. > :15:12.off by the Chief Secretary of the Treasury's speech last week, when
:15:12. > :15:16.he seemed to announce what the endgame was going to be. That
:15:16. > :15:20.people were going to have to work until the age of 66 and were going
:15:20. > :15:23.to have to pay 3.2% more for their pensions. That seemed rather
:15:23. > :15:28.strange, because there were negotiations going on with the
:15:28. > :15:31.trade unions, by some accounts quite fruitful ones. In the
:15:31. > :15:37.Observer it says that the Treasury is retreating on the inflammatory
:15:38. > :15:42.pension plan. They are saying, no, no, these were just ideas, it was a
:15:42. > :15:45.series of suggestions. It didn't sound like that at the time. On
:15:45. > :15:49.this issue of the union's walking into a trap, I rather feel there
:15:49. > :15:54.has been a bit of a cock-up by the Government. I'm not sure they
:15:54. > :15:58.really intended to go out in this manner. It is properly described as
:15:58. > :16:01.inflammatory, I think. Danny Alexander, perhaps, he's been told
:16:01. > :16:05.he has to sound tough, he's relatively new in the top rank.
:16:05. > :16:09.Maybe he was a little bit too tough? A difficult week for the
:16:09. > :16:14.Government. They were accused of trying to do a U-turn, here they
:16:14. > :16:17.are showing that they are not doing a U-turn on something. This comes
:16:18. > :16:22.down to real cuts in real institutions. You've got a story
:16:22. > :16:25.about hospitals? Interestingly, during the time of the last Labour
:16:25. > :16:31.government, every time they tried to do some rationalisation in the
:16:31. > :16:35.hospital sacked her -- sector, they couldn't get a pass their own
:16:35. > :16:40.ministers. Now we have something of a consensus growing up, the head of
:16:40. > :16:44.the nurses' union, the King's Fund, the think-tank, a lot of talk about
:16:44. > :16:48.how the number of these inefficient district hospitals should close.
:16:48. > :16:53.This is a story from the observe the, 20 hospitals must shut. It's
:16:53. > :16:55.the kind of horrible secret that everybody has known for a long time.
:16:55. > :17:00.Some of these places are desperately inefficient places to
:17:00. > :17:05.find yourself in. They actually don't have the expertise. But you
:17:05. > :17:10.can't get anybody to be grey, politically, that they get closed.
:17:10. > :17:15.You get a little campaign group, they frighten the MPs, they look at
:17:15. > :17:20.the wire forest, where a hospital consultant was elected in 2001,
:17:20. > :17:24.then they think they should fall behind it. Michael, one of these
:17:24. > :17:29.hospitals is close to where you were MP? The proposals were going
:17:29. > :17:34.on when I was an MP 17 or 18 years ago. No politician has had the
:17:34. > :17:40.willpower to go and closer to. Even the head of the Royal College of
:17:40. > :17:44.Nurses last week was saying that these hospitals need to be closed.
:17:44. > :17:49.There biggest political story has been Greece, putting the entire
:17:49. > :17:55.eurozone into trouble. Yes, it is everywhere. I picked a story from
:17:55. > :17:59.the Sunday Times, why a Greek tragedy matters to you, a picture
:17:59. > :18:03.of a policeman kicking a young woman demonstrator in Athens. What
:18:03. > :18:08.struck me in the Sunday Times was that they tried to review the
:18:08. > :18:11.possibilities of the future. It says, the view that Greece should
:18:11. > :18:15.exit the euro is spreading amongst politicians and financial experts.
:18:15. > :18:19.Fears that such a move would undermine the euro is exaggerated.
:18:19. > :18:24.This is opening the door to Greece even the euro. I agree with this,
:18:24. > :18:30.by the way. This goes back to when you were in government, the great
:18:30. > :18:33.argument about the inner core and the outer core? Well, we have
:18:33. > :18:40.different speedy Europe's, because some people are in the euro and
:18:40. > :18:44.some people are not. The argument we were making years ago was about
:18:44. > :18:47.sovereignty. When you hear that a European committee should be set up
:18:47. > :18:50.to going to Greece and sell its nationalised assets to raise money
:18:50. > :18:55.to pay off the debt, you do see that they awry implications for
:18:55. > :18:58.sovereignty. Do you think the euro would survive? Would it be a good
:18:58. > :19:06.thing but some of the peripheral economies in such trouble, Greece,
:19:06. > :19:08.perhaps Portugal, to leave the euro? Very possibly. It certainly
:19:08. > :19:13.something the countries could think about. At the moment, they decided
:19:13. > :19:17.they are going to save the you know -- Euro at any cost. We are saying
:19:17. > :19:22.that the cost is enormous in terms of social unrest, social provision,
:19:22. > :19:25.loss of income. It may go on for a very long time. Wider Greek tragedy
:19:25. > :19:29.matters to us is that apart from the fact that we get drawn into the
:19:29. > :19:33.short-term cost, if there is a crisis in Europe then our economy
:19:33. > :19:37.does not grow as it should command in the coalition's plans for paying
:19:37. > :19:41.off the deficit are not going to work out. By all means, why do they
:19:41. > :19:49.talk about an orderly exit from the euro of those countries that are
:19:49. > :19:55.clearly not up to what? Next story? An article in the Observer, parents
:19:55. > :19:59.of disabled children lose �1,400 a year. Basically, what this is, at
:19:59. > :20:03.the moment you get �54 a week through tax credits for children
:20:03. > :20:09.who are disabled. Under new proposals you will only get �27 a
:20:09. > :20:13.week. That is going to hit about 100,000 families. It is obviously
:20:13. > :20:21.going to cause a lot of problems. So, I think the Government should
:20:21. > :20:25.be rethinking this one. American politics? It's actually the case in
:20:25. > :20:32.all of the major quality papers that a lot of the biggest news of
:20:32. > :20:36.the day is foreign news. They are all white the spectre of the right-
:20:36. > :20:44.wing American woman, not Sarah Palin, but Michelle back then. As
:20:44. > :20:50.you can see, she is photogenic, she is very popular amongst a lot of
:20:50. > :20:54.people in America. And, as far as I can say, stark staring bonkers.
:20:54. > :20:59.This is an easy thing for a left liberal in Britain to say about an
:20:59. > :21:03.American politician. But she has a tendency to throw the term Satan
:21:03. > :21:09.into discussions about domestic politics. That doesn't go down well
:21:09. > :21:12.here. According to some of the people I most respect of the
:21:12. > :21:15.Republican commentary field in America, it will not go down well
:21:15. > :21:22.with the Americans either. At the moment, she is number two in the
:21:22. > :21:27.race. Given that the number one is a very boring person,... Very
:21:27. > :21:30.interesting. A lot of her pitch, the Tea Party, it is very strong
:21:30. > :21:38.old fashioned moral values, which we get, in our diluted form, from
:21:38. > :21:43.the Prime Minister? Yes, the Sunday Telegraph, Cameron saying that
:21:43. > :21:48.absent dads are as bad as drink- drivers. He says that fathers that
:21:48. > :21:58.choose to go a wall, walk out on their responsibilities, there must
:21:58. > :22:03.be stigmatised. -- AWOL. I think that is a terrible whirl it, --
:22:03. > :22:06.terrible word, stigma. In recent decades, because it has largely
:22:06. > :22:13.been abandoned. He's right to say it has been used in the case of
:22:13. > :22:18.drink-driving. We also stigmatise against bigotry. You cannot be
:22:18. > :22:21.homophobic or racist because they have been stigmatised. Here is the
:22:21. > :22:31.Government, earth seeking as a means of policy, to stigmatise a
:22:31. > :22:32.
:22:32. > :22:42.group of people. Good thing or bad thing? It is both. OK! I want to
:22:42. > :22:43.
:22:43. > :22:47.pick up on the Queen story. We have the Queen on her horse? This is
:22:47. > :22:50.regarding the high-speed trains. The Queen is very concerned that if
:22:50. > :22:55.the train goes through the plant route then her horses will be
:22:55. > :22:58.affected. This is London to Birmingham, all sorts of people are
:22:58. > :23:05.desperately trying to sell their houses and getting the Government
:23:05. > :23:14.to buy their houses. Possibly the best picture in today's papers,
:23:14. > :23:18.David? This is the Sunday Telegraph. This is an extinct MI5 agent, he
:23:18. > :23:24.used to keep tabs on the Archbishop of Canterbury. When he was younger,
:23:24. > :23:27.the Archbishop of Canterbury was a subversive leftist. Here he is, but
:23:27. > :23:34.the Socialist Workers' banner upside-down. We were trying to work
:23:34. > :23:44.out what it said. He says in his manifesto that he was a subversive,
:23:44. > :23:53.
:23:53. > :23:58.not a shallow activist. I was a communist, D were a Trott, wasn't
:23:58. > :24:04.Ed Balls in the Conservative Association? Let's finish with
:24:04. > :24:09.Ascot, that is all over the papers again. It's not what it was?
:24:09. > :24:18.horses have gone to do dogs, that's the thing. In the Independent, it
:24:18. > :24:25.says it was more the Royal Family, images of eight men brawling
:24:25. > :24:31.amongst a sea of tattoos and orange cleavage. Helen Wood, Wayne
:24:32. > :24:35.Rooney's one-time prostitute lover, was paraded by it -- like a duchess.
:24:35. > :24:42.Her one offence was that she didn't turn up wearing a hat. That won't
:24:42. > :24:49.With sadly run out of time for the papers. I was running and cycling
:24:50. > :24:57.recently, it felt like being in a car wash. Doused, drenched, hot.
:24:57. > :25:00.If you couldn't guess, it's not looking great for Wimbledon. Things
:25:00. > :25:06.will improve through the week. Today's weather is definitely an
:25:06. > :25:09.improvement on yesterday. This was the satellite picture. The cloud is
:25:09. > :25:13.the legacy of yesterday's weather front. To the north and south,
:25:13. > :25:16.something a bit brighter developing to the rest of the day. Scattered
:25:16. > :25:19.showers drifting eastwards through England and Wales. Where the
:25:19. > :25:23.weather front sits, patchy rain at the moment. It turns more showery
:25:23. > :25:28.this afternoon. Heavy showers are likely, maybe even the odd rumble
:25:28. > :25:32.of thunder. For the north-east of Scotland, a much better day today
:25:32. > :25:35.than yesterday. More sunshine around, the high up to 18 degrees.
:25:35. > :25:40.For Northern Ireland, similar to the last few days. Sunny spells and
:25:40. > :25:44.scattered showers. Turning dry and bright across Wales, with more
:25:44. > :25:48.sunshine, highs of 16 degrees in Cardiff. In the south-west of
:25:48. > :25:53.England, turning a little cloudy this afternoon with rain moving as
:25:53. > :25:56.we head through the evening. Through southern areas of England,
:25:57. > :26:01.more two showers. Not as heavy or blustery as yesterday. With more
:26:01. > :26:06.sunshine, a little warmer. On Monday, England, Wales and Northern
:26:06. > :26:13.Ireland, cloudy with rain. Dry and brighter in Scotland. My advice,
:26:13. > :26:15.make the most of today's sunshine, This week the House of Lords is
:26:15. > :26:19.going to debate proposals for one of the most monumental changes in
:26:19. > :26:25.its history. The Lords would start to disappear to be replaced by a
:26:25. > :26:28.mostly elected second chamber if reform goes ahead. The Government
:26:28. > :26:32.predicts that the first members, senators, they will be called, will
:26:32. > :26:36.take their seats in four years time. But there is a lot of resistance
:26:36. > :26:41.and scepticism. Lord Strathclyde, the leader of the Lords in charge
:26:41. > :26:45.of this, joins me. One of your colleagues, Bernard Jenkins, has
:26:45. > :26:49.asked, rhetorically, whether this is not just another tatty roadshow
:26:49. > :26:53.brought you by the same people who thought that the British people
:26:53. > :26:58.were interested in the alternative vote. He has a point? I don't think
:26:58. > :27:02.he does. We'd been talking about house of Lords reform for over 100
:27:02. > :27:08.years. In 1911, Parliament passed the Parliament Act and said the
:27:08. > :27:11.second chamber should be elected. Does that say it all? We've taken a
:27:11. > :27:15.long time to get here. For the first time, a government has
:27:15. > :27:18.published a Bill in draft, with a white paper, laying out what an
:27:18. > :27:23.elected second chamber would look like. That's important because I
:27:23. > :27:26.think people need to rebuild their trust in politicians. I believe
:27:26. > :27:30.that in the 21st century if you are going to wield political power then
:27:30. > :27:36.you should do because people have elected you into Parliament, rather
:27:36. > :27:40.than simply being appointed or inherited. Under the Government's
:27:40. > :27:44.proposals, a 5th of those people would not be elected. You still
:27:44. > :27:50.have the possibility of the elected will both the Commons and the Lords,
:27:50. > :27:55.the Senate, whatever the second chamber is, being overridden by a
:27:55. > :28:00.unelected people. That would cause outcry? We have put forward two
:28:00. > :28:05.proposals. One is a 100% elected house, which is a model that many
:28:05. > :28:09.people will find it easy to understand. All we have 80%, with
:28:09. > :28:13.20% appointed. There is a reason to do that, the House of Lords is
:28:14. > :28:16.almost entirely appointed. There is an argument that says we should
:28:16. > :28:21.preserve a small part of Parliament for those kinds of people that
:28:21. > :28:26.would never stand for election, senior civil servants, ambassadors,
:28:26. > :28:29.top soldiers, policemen. Who you might want to get in there for
:28:29. > :28:35.their expertise and knowledge. That's not to say that if you are
:28:35. > :28:39.elected to, you are devoid of expertise and knowledge. It is
:28:39. > :28:44.right that this would effectively be a Senate? Effectively. It is a
:28:44. > :28:48.good word. There are many second chambers around the world called
:28:48. > :28:51.the Zenit. But the Government has said it should be called that. We
:28:51. > :28:55.have said they should be a consultation on what to call it. No
:28:55. > :29:00.doubt a number of people will come up with different ways of how to
:29:01. > :29:06.call a House of Lords when it is devoid of Lords. There is great
:29:06. > :29:08.opposition in your old party and other parties as well. A lot of the
:29:09. > :29:12.opponents are going to be sitting on the committee that will be
:29:12. > :29:17.looking at it? You are quite right. There is a lot of bad feeling about
:29:17. > :29:19.it in both houses of parliament and across all of the parties. At the
:29:19. > :29:24.last General Election all three main parties stood in their
:29:24. > :29:28.manifesto on a commitment to come forward with a wholly or entirely
:29:28. > :29:35.elected house. We are trying to build on that consensus, where
:29:35. > :29:38.there is a firm commitment from the Prime Minister and many others to
:29:38. > :29:42.try and deliver this in time for 2015. That is what we are going to
:29:42. > :29:46.try to do. You are going to try and do it, but you have no chance, I
:29:46. > :29:49.put it to you. Let me be blunt, the general suspicion is that it is not
:29:49. > :29:54.going to fly, it is not going to happen, it's too difficult to get
:29:54. > :30:03.through both houses. Do you have to make a good fist of it to appease
:30:03. > :30:08.the Liberal Democrats? Otherwise There are people in all parties
:30:08. > :30:12.talking about reform for many years. Talking is one thing. And this is
:30:12. > :30:17.the time for action. This is the first time in a generation that we
:30:17. > :30:21.can really move this forward. There is momentum, and if flicking get
:30:21. > :30:30.the opposition party - the Labour Party - to agree in both Commons
:30:30. > :30:35.and the House of Lords, I think we could achieve this goal. But you
:30:35. > :30:39.can't look me in the eye and say you will do it? There are divisions
:30:39. > :30:42.within the parties, rather than between the parties, but because we
:30:42. > :30:47.put such a clear case forward and we are only at the start of the
:30:47. > :30:51.debate, it won't be until another 12 months that we bring legislation
:30:52. > :30:58.forward, I think we can convince people this is the right thing to
:30:58. > :31:02.do. Given that we have got outraged public sector workers arguing about
:31:02. > :31:06.pensions, we have so many problems ahead, the forces in action in
:31:06. > :31:10.Libya and Afghanistan, is this really something that politicians
:31:10. > :31:16.should spend a lot of time thinking about? With tears and important
:31:16. > :31:19.issue. It has been rattling around the constitutional bottom drawer
:31:19. > :31:27.for many years. Just because it doesn't seem to be the most
:31:27. > :31:31.pressing issue, it doesn't mean it is not important. if we had a
:31:31. > :31:35.second chamber that was elected, it would be better for politics, it
:31:35. > :31:40.would hold the government to account. So you are genuine
:31:40. > :31:46.convert? Because you used to be against this. The about 20 years
:31:46. > :31:49.ago I wondered if there was any point to it, but I have studied it.
:31:49. > :31:53.I think the House of Lords would have more authority to hold the
:31:53. > :31:58.government to account, and when it had battles of will between the
:31:58. > :32:03.House of Commons I think it would strengthen its hand. All of these
:32:03. > :32:06.are good for parliamentary democracy. We do have to write in a
:32:06. > :32:10.new constitutional settlement to make sure that the House of Lords
:32:10. > :32:15.didn't override the House of Commons, if it was elected? It
:32:15. > :32:20.might think it had more of a right to speak for the people. It is a
:32:20. > :32:24.key issue, but over the last hundred years we have developed a
:32:24. > :32:29.constitutional understanding. We don't need to rewrite that
:32:29. > :32:36.constitutional settlement today or next year. Over time, as we develop
:32:36. > :32:39.to a fully elected House, yes I am sure that those boundaries between
:32:39. > :32:45.the two houses will be tested but that is not a bad thing. Many other
:32:45. > :32:52.countries do it. Chances of there being a senator sitting in the
:32:52. > :32:55.House of Lords by the time the next election? 20-one? I have sometimes
:32:55. > :33:00.speculated it is going to be very difficult, some have said
:33:00. > :33:04.impossible. I don't think so. This time there is a momentum, a
:33:05. > :33:11.political will, and we can win the argument and there will be senators
:33:11. > :33:21.being elected in 2015. Thank you. For 20 years, Damon Albarn has been
:33:21. > :33:25.
:33:25. > :33:30.one of the most interesting figures As frontman for Blur, he caught the
:33:30. > :33:37.spirit of the 90s with his hyperactive stage act, clever
:33:37. > :33:42.lyrics and stadium filling music. He then went on to find this hugely
:33:42. > :33:47.successful virtual band, the Gorillaz. He has now produced a new
:33:47. > :33:56.English opera, a reflection on the life and times of John, Elizabethan
:33:57. > :34:02.astrologer, mathematician, and it is premiering next month. Welcome.
:34:02. > :34:12.John, one of the most of figures in Elizabethan history - what is the
:34:12. > :34:23.
:34:23. > :34:28.appeal? -- odd figures. ambition was almost impossible to
:34:28. > :34:32.grasp in one thing. His ideas are so broad. He was quite close to
:34:32. > :34:39.being a scientist, certainly a mathematician, close to Elizabeth
:34:39. > :34:49.the first. He did what I imagine was an incredibly important thing
:34:49. > :34:49.
:34:49. > :34:55.for the English. He translated the Euclid into English from Latin. In
:34:55. > :35:02.a way he gave the information that have been the sort of reserve of
:35:02. > :35:07.the Church and aristocrats. He was also the first person I have read
:35:07. > :35:14.to use the phrase British Empire. think he coined it. That is really
:35:14. > :35:22.interesting, and that is how I kind of got an emotional connection with
:35:22. > :35:30.him, by imagining what the British Empire would have been like if it
:35:30. > :35:38.had been informed by John's ideas and less well cinema. Who was the
:35:38. > :35:47.spy master. It seems to have always been interested in Englishness.
:35:47. > :35:55.has everything there. It has that connection with the more pagan
:35:55. > :36:00.aspects of Englishness. It doesn't... It alludes to the age of
:36:00. > :36:07.reason but isn't quite there, and some of the ideas that he was
:36:07. > :36:13.trying to express our sort of, in a way, very modern ideas. We are
:36:13. > :36:20.going to hear some music at the end of the show, which has an almost
:36:20. > :36:28.madrigal quality to it. It is a serial, a gentle piece. At first I
:36:28. > :36:37.started writing it purely as a composer, and I didn't imagine
:36:37. > :36:42.myself inside the story or sort of in this sort of modern look at it,
:36:42. > :36:49.but I just felt it was more about England than just John. He was this
:36:49. > :36:54.marvellous frame to sort of express things that I couldn't really do
:36:54. > :36:59.necessarily in Blur or... But I do find a connection to it, it is
:36:59. > :37:04.weird. Some of the songs could come from that world. I don't really
:37:04. > :37:10.know what world I am meant at the moment but it is an interesting one.
:37:10. > :37:13.Obviously Blur were at that peak of Britpop, and stadium bands and that
:37:13. > :37:18.bigger sound, and since then you seem to have been constantly
:37:18. > :37:28.looking for new textures and different kinds of complexities in
:37:28. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:32.your music. I am thinking of monkey, the opera. Yes, I think I just find
:37:32. > :37:37.all music, there is something in everything. When people go to
:37:37. > :37:43.Manchester to watch this English opera, what is it going to look
:37:43. > :37:52.like? What will they see on stage? We have kind of split it into the
:37:52. > :38:02.three realms. We have the celestial realm, where there is a consort of
:38:02. > :38:07.
:38:07. > :38:12.musicians including myself, but also Tony Allen, the master drummer.
:38:12. > :38:18.It is really interesting. Then we have the Earth, where the play is
:38:18. > :38:28.taking place, they may have the sort of underworld, where the
:38:28. > :38:28.
:38:28. > :38:32.orchestra... Sulphuric Orchestra! We will hear some of your music at
:38:32. > :38:36.the end of the show. La st the shadow chancellor Ed
:38:36. > :38:41.Balls criticised George Osborne for taking the wrong fork in the road,
:38:41. > :38:46.with his insistence on slashing the deficit at all costs. For their
:38:46. > :38:53.part, they say Ed Balls has always been unable to face up to the
:38:53. > :39:00.deficit. His call for a temporary cut in VAT has not been greeted
:39:00. > :39:05.with widespread enthusiasm from columnists or newspapers. Welcome.
:39:05. > :39:10.Can I start by going back to this whole question about whether you in
:39:10. > :39:14.particular, Labour in general, have been ready enough to apologise for
:39:14. > :39:20.and explain the period of overspending in power. Last time we
:39:20. > :39:25.talked you said there had not been a structural deficit. The OECD, the
:39:25. > :39:30.IMF, all of these international bodies say there was. We have had
:39:30. > :39:34.this conversation many times. seems central. There was a global
:39:34. > :39:38.financial crisis because of a failure of banking regulation and I
:39:38. > :39:48.have apologised for that, but the Lehmann Brothers in New York didn't
:39:48. > :39:49.
:39:49. > :39:53.go Bang cut because if Great Britain. We had lower financial
:39:53. > :39:59.deficit than some other countries and we had come back into
:39:59. > :40:03.structural surplus, so we had achieved that. Tony Blair, Alastair
:40:03. > :40:10.Darling, many other commentators said actually, do you know what, in
:40:10. > :40:15.the late 90s we were spending too much. Sorry, in 2007. Civil
:40:15. > :40:18.servants said we were spending too much. We were not getting complete
:40:18. > :40:24.value for money and we had to start bringing the spending down. It
:40:24. > :40:29.seemed like you at about the only person saying no. I think it is
:40:29. > :40:34.complete nonsense. The 2007 spending review slowed down the
:40:34. > :40:38.pace of spending, and at that time David Cameron said this is a tough
:40:38. > :40:42.spending round and George Osborne said we will match those plans. It
:40:42. > :40:49.was never part of the debate about whether our spending was too high
:40:49. > :40:52.because we have low borrowing and high national debt. There is two
:40:53. > :40:56.different things said to me - there are some people who tend to be
:40:56. > :41:00.conservative commentators, who say you have got to admit you have
:41:00. > :41:07.spent too much or you will be never trusted again. Others say you have
:41:07. > :41:13.got to defend your record more. Tony Blair is hardly a conservative
:41:13. > :41:18.commentator, he says that. Mervyn King says that, Alastair Darling.
:41:18. > :41:24.At no point did Tony Blair say we should reduce the deficit by
:41:24. > :41:31.cutting spending. The fact is, I could defend the past or attack the
:41:31. > :41:37.past, but the public care about what is happening now. That is
:41:37. > :41:41.really... I have been clear - George Osborne says he wants the
:41:41. > :41:46.fastest deficit reduction of any country in the world. I want to get
:41:46. > :41:51.the deficit down, but not this fast. The public will see who is right
:41:51. > :41:56.and he was wrong. I am happy to be tested on that, and our credibility
:41:56. > :42:00.will come down in the end to who was right. I want come on to that,
:42:00. > :42:05.but before we do, with hindsight, knowing what you know now, would
:42:05. > :42:10.you have spent all that money in government that you did spend?
:42:10. > :42:15.You would never spend every pound right in government, of course.
:42:15. > :42:20.Some NHS reform was not great, we made mistakes, but we also made the
:42:20. > :42:24.case for the National Insurance rise, we had more police officers,
:42:24. > :42:30.more teachers. It was issued achievement and our society is
:42:30. > :42:35.stronger and more cohesive as a result. But there was a global
:42:35. > :42:40.banking crisis for which we all paid a price. In that period up to
:42:40. > :42:44.2007, George Osborne, David Cameron and you never said couldn't you
:42:44. > :42:48.spend less and reduced the deficit? That is because it wasn't the issue
:42:48. > :42:58.at the time and in retrospect it wasn't the cause of the crisis.
:42:58. > :43:02.Love Life forward and understand it backwards. I could say to you that
:43:02. > :43:06.I will agree with you every time I come on your programme, but
:43:06. > :43:14.actually it is better to be truthful. For a moment there I was
:43:14. > :43:22.optimistic. Let's move on to the VAT cut. This was a �12 billion
:43:22. > :43:26.boost, unfunded, which would be 51 billion over the course of a
:43:26. > :43:30.government so you would be adding to the deficit at a time when many
:43:30. > :43:34.agencies are already saying the government at the moment is not
:43:34. > :43:39.getting the actual deficit down fast enough. The reason why the
:43:39. > :43:42.deficit is going to be �46 billion higher than George Osborne wanted
:43:42. > :43:46.is because the economy has flat lined, consumer confidence has
:43:46. > :43:53.fallen sharply, we have fewer people paying tax than we should
:43:53. > :43:59.have, more people out of work. The economy is weaker. You think
:43:59. > :44:02.throwing more VAT spending at that will change things? I thought the
:44:02. > :44:07.VAT rise in January was a catastrophic decision for the
:44:07. > :44:10.economy and it pushed inflation up as well. It makes it harder for the
:44:10. > :44:16.Bank of England on interest rates as well. George Osborne wants to
:44:16. > :44:22.get rid of this deficit entirely in the parliament, we say half it. I
:44:22. > :44:29.am not expecting him to go all the way to us, to adopt are steadier
:44:29. > :44:35.plans, but one thing he could do, meet us halfway, is reverse the VAT
:44:35. > :44:41.rise now and use the spending in the economy. I say he could do that
:44:41. > :44:45.temporarily. How long? That depends how long it takes to restore growth.
:44:45. > :44:50.The Conservative Party are saying it will cost 50 billion and take
:44:50. > :44:54.four years, that suggests they are expecting four years of slow growth.
:44:54. > :44:59.That is an admission by them of the failure of this policy and we have
:44:59. > :45:03.got to break out of it. George Osborne has got to learn the lesson
:45:03. > :45:07.of Chancellors in the past. He has always said that there will be a
:45:07. > :45:12.reduction in public sector jobs, but that will be, he hopes, picked
:45:12. > :45:16.up by a growth in private sector jobs. The number of private sector
:45:16. > :45:26.jobs is increasing at the moment. Unemployment figures are not that
:45:26. > :45:29.bad. It is not a catastrophe by any The last three figures were
:45:29. > :45:33.manufacturing output falling, better news on unemployment and
:45:33. > :45:36.then retail sales falling. If you look at George Osborne's claim, he
:45:37. > :45:41.attacked the BBC for not giving more publicity to this, if you look
:45:41. > :45:46.at the increase in jobs in the last year, 70% of them would be for his
:45:46. > :45:49.spending review. Only 30% worse since. So, there has been a big
:45:49. > :45:53.slowdown in job creation. The claimant count has been rising,
:45:53. > :45:58.month-on-month. We know that unemployment is a lagging indicator.
:45:58. > :46:02.It doesn't tell the future, that tends to beat confidence in sales.
:46:02. > :46:05.Any Chancellor looking at this position and feeling that the data
:46:05. > :46:08.is vindicating him, to be honest, they need their head examining. We
:46:08. > :46:12.had a debate in parliament on Wednesday that we have called. I
:46:12. > :46:18.hope he will come on the year anniversary of his budget and
:46:18. > :46:23.explained why his budget forecast has not come right. We'll see if
:46:23. > :46:26.he's got answers. So far, I see a lot of bluster but not answers.
:46:26. > :46:29.have strongly criticised the Government's tactics in the way
:46:29. > :46:34.they are handling the pension issue when it comes to the public sector
:46:34. > :46:37.unions. They have thrown down ultimatums and accused -- you have
:46:37. > :46:40.accuse them of trying to draw the unions into a trap. You haven't
:46:40. > :46:43.told us what you think about the proposals themselves, that public
:46:44. > :46:47.sector workers should work a bit longer and make more of a payment
:46:47. > :46:53.into the pensions to put them on roughly the same level as people
:46:53. > :46:55.and the private sector. Look, it's not just the bluster and the
:46:55. > :46:58.confrontational approach. It is actually the handling of the
:46:58. > :47:02.substance where I think there was a problem. I don't think anybody
:47:02. > :47:06.doubts that there has to be pension reform and the public sector. We
:47:06. > :47:09.agreed with that before the election. Lord Hutton has set out
:47:09. > :47:13.ideas in his report as well. I think the unions want to have a
:47:13. > :47:16.proper debate about this. That's why it is frustrating to see the
:47:16. > :47:20.Treasury breaking out of negotiations and see me to say they
:47:20. > :47:23.have made decisions. Let's get to the substance, if you on a man or
:47:23. > :47:27.woman in their early 50s, who has worked in public services for 20 or
:47:27. > :47:31.30 years, the idea that you suddenly find out that you may have
:47:31. > :47:34.to wait years longer to get the pensions you believe you are
:47:34. > :47:38.entitled to, I think those people would say that is really not fair.
:47:38. > :47:43.A lot of people in the private sector have had to put up with that.
:47:43. > :47:46.A of course, you have to have changes for new workers. The deputy
:47:46. > :47:51.director of the CBI was asked about this in the studio last Wednesday.
:47:51. > :47:54.He said, well, I had a final salary pension. But new entrants have
:47:54. > :47:59.moved on to a funded scheme. That's happening in the public sector as
:47:59. > :48:02.well. What is worrying about the proposals is changing the rules for
:48:02. > :48:05.people in their 50s. That seems to not be fair. The anger in the
:48:05. > :48:10.country is not coming from trade union leaders, it actually coming
:48:10. > :48:16.from dinner ladies, teachers, civil service workers in their 50s who
:48:16. > :48:19.feel that they are having the road taken from under them. The thrust
:48:19. > :48:23.of John Hutton's proposals, you think they are wrong? I didn't say
:48:23. > :48:28.that a tour. If the proposals are right, the Government has to
:48:28. > :48:38.grapple with the issue and do something about it? -- I didn't say
:48:38. > :48:38.
:48:38. > :48:43.It's not about reducing the deficit next year, it's over 50 or 60 years.
:48:43. > :48:47.So you would say do the same thing, but go slower? That's the right way
:48:47. > :48:51.to tackle pension reform. You are playing with people's lives. If you
:48:51. > :48:54.were told by the BBC that your pension you were expecting had been
:48:54. > :48:58.rewritten, you would go and get your lawyer. People have the right
:48:58. > :49:03.to be treated fairly and properly. The idea you have women in their
:49:03. > :49:07.50s being told on the state pension, or public service workers on their
:49:07. > :49:10.pensions, we are changing the rules just like that, in such a rapid
:49:10. > :49:15.way... It's not fair. Do you think they should strike later this
:49:15. > :49:21.month? I'm not going to condemn strikes that hadn't yet happened.
:49:21. > :49:30.You could offer them advice. I've said they have been wrong in the
:49:30. > :49:36.past, I did so over the nut strike. We need to get back around the
:49:36. > :49:39.table and discuss this. I don't think it's a political idea from
:49:39. > :49:42.the unions, their members are feeling very upset. George Osborne
:49:42. > :49:48.is desperate to have that confrontation. The trade unions
:49:48. > :49:51.must not walk into the trap of giving George Osborne the
:49:51. > :49:56.confrontation he wants. We should negotiate and that is the best way
:49:56. > :49:59.forward. If that is the case, the 700,000 people that are likely to a
:49:59. > :50:03.walkout in 10 days' time, they should not walk out because they
:50:03. > :50:07.are walking into the trap that you have described? This is not pre-
:50:07. > :50:10.ordained. It's entirely in the Government's hands. It also in the
:50:10. > :50:14.hands of unions and members? have seen in recent weeks and
:50:14. > :50:18.months a government that goes very political, Russia's ahead, finds it
:50:18. > :50:22.has the detail wrong and it has to pull back. We saw that on the NHS,
:50:22. > :50:26.on spending cuts and the deficit. The same has happened on pensions.
:50:26. > :50:29.The Government can say tomorrow, look, we are going to pull away
:50:29. > :50:32.quickly and have proper discussions right now, carried a song. If that
:50:33. > :50:38.happens, there is no need for these strikes. The British public doesn't
:50:38. > :50:42.want to go back to a decade where we have strikes and confrontation.
:50:42. > :50:46.George Osborne can't remember the miners' strike, we do. Greece,
:50:46. > :50:50.their economy is really on the edge now. His George Osborne right, do
:50:50. > :50:54.you think, to at least be involved in talks about putting in more
:50:54. > :50:57.British money for another bail out? I know we are not in the euro, but
:50:57. > :51:02.if Greece goes under in a bad way, it will affect our chances of
:51:02. > :51:06.recovery. I think George Osborne is getting that wrong, but not on that
:51:06. > :51:14.particular point. We are a member of the IMF, IMF money will be part
:51:14. > :51:17.of it. The real question is, is he arguing for a sensible way forward
:51:17. > :51:21.on this issue? My fear is that what is happening is that the European
:51:21. > :51:26.Union is saying to Greece have more austerity, have more cuts, we will
:51:26. > :51:29.give you some temporary finance. What is the alternative? The lesson
:51:29. > :51:34.of history, you see this in Latin America as well, if economies are
:51:34. > :51:37.not growing and creating jobs then the debt goes up, the deficit gets
:51:38. > :51:42.worse, the catastrophe at the end is bigger. I think we are heading
:51:42. > :51:45.for really dangerous times. The European Union has to realise that
:51:45. > :51:49.if it carries on in this way, temporary package and temporary
:51:49. > :51:52.package, in the end it will be more destabilising. I fear that our
:51:52. > :51:56.Chancellor is not standing up for a better and more sensible way
:51:56. > :52:02.forward and we will rue the day. you think we are going to lose
:52:02. > :52:05.members of the euro bloc? I think the critical commitment in those
:52:06. > :52:09.countries for staying in is very strong. I think the problem is that
:52:09. > :52:11.Germany never wanted that to happen on any terms. It's hard to see how
:52:11. > :52:15.they would stay in without substantial restructuring which
:52:15. > :52:19.would cost a lot of money for the rest of the Union. I think it's
:52:19. > :52:23.very difficult that the longer we wait the worse it gets. The fact is,
:52:23. > :52:26.over the last year, in other countries they put up VAT, they cut
:52:26. > :52:34.spending. And what has happened? Debt has gone up, croak has gone
:52:34. > :52:38.down, the crisis has got worse. -- growth has gone down. Austerity on
:52:38. > :52:42.its own never solve these problems. I think there is a blinkered view,
:52:42. > :52:45.that they wait until the next meeting and hope it goes away.
:52:45. > :52:48.the central economic argument, where you have been locking horns
:52:48. > :52:52.with the coalition so aggressively on both sides, public opinion
:52:52. > :52:56.doesn't seem to be with you at the moment. Quite small majorities of
:52:56. > :53:00.people, minorities of people, saying they agree with the Labour
:53:01. > :53:04.approach. Why did you think that is? It's not surprising if after
:53:04. > :53:07.three years, and we are partly responsible for this, all they have
:53:07. > :53:11.heard from the Conservatives, the newspapers and the BBC is that it
:53:11. > :53:15.is all Labour's Mez, caused by spending, the only way to get the
:53:15. > :53:20.deficit down his rapid cuts right now. What will actually make the
:53:20. > :53:24.difference is what actually happens. I'm happy to be judged on that. I
:53:24. > :53:28.think Ed Miliband has rightly said that he wants to make the argument
:53:28. > :53:34.about the future, and optimistic future. But it's hard to give
:53:34. > :53:41.optimism when the economy is flat lining. It will depend on what
:53:41. > :53:45.George Osborne does and I think we can win this document. -- argument.
:53:45. > :53:48.NATO says it is looking into claims by Libyan officials that at least
:53:48. > :53:53.five civilians were killed when an air strike destroyed a residential
:53:53. > :53:56.building in Tripoli. Journalists, including the BBC's Middle East
:53:56. > :54:01.editor Jeremy Bowen, were taken to the scene by government officials
:54:01. > :54:05.and saw people digging through the rubble with their bare hands. They
:54:05. > :54:09.also take into a hospital where a number of casualties were being
:54:09. > :54:12.treated. The shadow chancellor Ed Balls has
:54:12. > :54:16.warned the public sector unions that they should not walk into what
:54:16. > :54:20.he called the Government's trap by going on strike over changes to
:54:20. > :54:22.pensions. He said there was no need for strikes providing the
:54:22. > :54:26.Government was prepared to negotiate in good faith over
:54:26. > :54:30.pension reform. That's all from me for now. The
:54:30. > :54:35.next news on BBC One is at midday. We will get back to Andrew in a
:54:35. > :54:39.moment. First, he has a look at what is coming up after the show.
:54:39. > :54:42.Join us live from Glasgow for the last edition of this series, with
:54:42. > :54:47.Ken Clarke's long awaited sentencing proposals out next week.
:54:47. > :54:52.We will be asking if we are too soft on criminals. Peter Hitchens
:54:52. > :54:56.wants to bring back the short, sharp shock. With an aid convoy
:54:56. > :55:01.heading to Gaza, we asked if it is time to free Palestine.
:55:01. > :55:05.Ed Balls is still here. It is Father's Day. We should say
:55:05. > :55:15.something about that. What do you make of the call for being much
:55:15. > :55:16.
:55:16. > :55:22.tougher on absent fathers? I... Personally, I feel a father should
:55:22. > :55:30.be with his children. So it's a fair thing for a politician to say?
:55:30. > :55:33.It's a fair thing for a father to say. After yesterday, my youngest
:55:34. > :55:37.got in trouble in class with throwing water about the place with
:55:37. > :55:43.a letter from the school. I upgraded her with this yesterday,
:55:43. > :55:49.as a result, I am not going to get a card. She thinks I am lousy. --
:55:49. > :55:52.berated her. I left home at 5.30 to be on the programme, our kids
:55:52. > :55:55.thought that was outrageous behaviour on Father's Day. I also
:55:55. > :56:00.think it's outrageous Ford David Cameron. He said something that is
:56:00. > :56:03.correct, fathers should take responsibility seriously. But he is
:56:04. > :56:08.charging others, when a father leaves, to going to the CSA. He's
:56:08. > :56:11.going to make it harder and the marriage tax cut would disadvantage
:56:11. > :56:19.the bomb left behind and give the tax break to the father that went
:56:19. > :56:23.off. His policies are flawed. knew you would get tax in there
:56:23. > :56:28.somewhere, a question on Father's Day... You've got to get behind the
:56:28. > :56:32.headlines, they are making it much worse. Also, a friend of mine that
:56:32. > :56:38.is a psychoanalyst says that in any election you are always playing he
:56:38. > :56:43.was the daddy? Who is the most father like figure. The father of
:56:43. > :56:46.the country? Who is going to be the father of the country. Or the
:56:46. > :56:50.mother of the country. The father of the nation. I think Ed Miliband
:56:51. > :56:56.would be a great father to the nation, don't you? We are out of
:56:56. > :56:59.time. Drawing me again next Sunday, when the one week of Wimbledon
:56:59. > :57:04.having gone I will be talking to one of the greatest tennis
:57:04. > :57:09.champions ever, Martina Navratilova. Until then, we leave you with Damon
:57:09. > :57:19.Albarn, performing his new competition he has written for the
:57:19. > :57:38.
:57:38. > :57:44.# Pour the Apple quaffed from the # On the yellow dome, to great
:57:45. > :57:54.authority. # Singing Hallelujah, Hallelujah.
:57:55. > :57:55.
:57:55. > :58:05.# In the kingdom of the broken heart.
:58:05. > :58:08.
:58:08. > :58:18.# A blackbird sings. # The moon is stark.
:58:18. > :58:30.
:58:30. > :58:40.# Burned the Apple cart, burn them until the Great Fire begins.
:58:40. > :58:45.
:58:45. > :58:51.# There, beneath the stones, reach # From great austerity, and turning
:58:51. > :58:58.lovers. # Our disdain.