:00:19. > :00:23.Good morning from the most remote major city on the planet. Perth,
:00:23. > :00:27.Western Australia, where politicians from 53 countries all
:00:27. > :00:32.around the world representing about a third of the earth's population,
:00:32. > :00:37.have been meeting for the Commonwealth Conference. Because of
:00:37. > :00:42.the dramatic strike and grounding of Australia's national airline,
:00:42. > :00:46.Qantas, many are now stuck here with only a cloudless sky and
:00:46. > :00:56.unlimited quantities of cold beer to sustain them. I'm sure every
:00:56. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :01:28.Well, this had been build as a watershed meeting for the
:01:28. > :01:34.Commonwealth, a chance to demonstrate its relevance at a time
:01:34. > :01:39.of huge global change, economic crisis, the shift to Asia and the
:01:40. > :01:46.outpouring of people and human rights in the Arab Spring. It was a
:01:46. > :01:52.chance to prevent human rights aBruce abuses, even the Queen tried
:01:52. > :02:02.to encourage them to be bold. But they didn't go as far as some
:02:02. > :02:03.
:02:03. > :02:08.wanted. Inside chockium inside the Conference Centre, CHOGM has ended
:02:08. > :02:14.and I've been talking to David Cameron and Paul Kagame, who is
:02:14. > :02:19.President of Rwanda, credited with rebuilding his country after the
:02:19. > :02:22.terrible genocide there, but his critics say there is blood on his
:02:22. > :02:29.hands. As always, we have been digesting the papers, the
:02:29. > :02:33.Australian papers, that is, with a native of these parts, from the
:02:33. > :02:40.Daily Mail, Amanda Platell, and we're joined by the Secretary-
:02:41. > :02:49.General of the Commonwealth, appointed for another four years,
:02:49. > :02:56.Kamlesh Sharma snoip and And I'm here in London to talk to our most
:02:56. > :03:01.distinguished writer of detective stories, PD James. But what
:03:01. > :03:07.inspired her to bring murder into Jane Austen's world?. First the
:03:07. > :03:10.news. Armed guards could be placed on board British-flagged vessels in
:03:10. > :03:17.a radical attempt to protect them from Somali pirates. The Prime
:03:17. > :03:23.Minister said it was a complete stab stain on our world that
:03:23. > :03:27.pirates were hijacking ships around the Horn of Africa. Mr Cameron
:03:27. > :03:30.argued that pirates don't target ships with armed guards on board.
:03:30. > :03:36.Emergency talks are under way in Australia to try to resolve a
:03:36. > :03:39.dispute that has grounded all Qantas airline flights. The
:03:39. > :03:43.company's entire fleet has been grounded after workers went on
:03:43. > :03:49.strike over pay and conditions. The Australian Prime Minister, Julia
:03:49. > :03:54.Gillard has warned that the country's economy is at risk.
:03:54. > :04:02.Le Empty concourses and vacant stairs, the Qantas flying operation
:04:02. > :04:06.is at a stand still and the check- in desks are idol and passage
:04:06. > :04:12.injures' plans are thrown into confusion. Not very happy, because
:04:12. > :04:17.it's a life-time trip for us and cost a fortune. And we've been told
:04:17. > :04:22.to rebook. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
:04:22. > :04:26.A special industrial tribunal is under way to try to end the dispute.
:04:26. > :04:30.Qantas ground all its aircraft following a series of strikes by
:04:30. > :04:36.unions. The unions say they're just trying to stop their jobs being
:04:36. > :04:40.moved to Asia. If this tribunal condition' resolve the crisis, the
:04:40. > :04:46.Government has the power to intervene directly and command that
:04:46. > :04:52.Qantas starts again. The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard says if
:04:52. > :04:58.this dispute carries on it could affect the whole of the Australian
:04:58. > :05:05.economy. It's costing the airline $20 million a day in lost revenue
:05:05. > :05:11.and an untold amount in damage to its reputation.
:05:11. > :05:15.Households in England could see a cut of �20 in their annual council
:05:15. > :05:21.tax bill under new Government proposals. Next year's council tax
:05:21. > :05:26.has already been frozen. Tomorrow, the Communities Secretary, Eric
:05:26. > :05:32.Pickles says he wants the discount to be phased out on second homes
:05:32. > :05:38.and ministers say the amount made which removing the discount could
:05:38. > :05:46.help reduce the tax on other households. Thousands have turned
:05:46. > :05:52.out to see the Queen on her final day in Australia at the
:05:52. > :05:59.Commonwealth meeting. It was build as the big Aussie
:05:59. > :06:04.barbecue, but when the moment came the sausages and steaks were left
:06:04. > :06:10.to sizzle as people tried to catch a glimpse of the guest of honour.
:06:10. > :06:14.And from that guest, who has visited so many countries during
:06:14. > :06:22.her reign, a feeling that this visit has meant a lot. I can think
:06:22. > :06:26.of no more fitting way to end my invite here than in this idyllic
:06:26. > :06:31.river setting which I have enjoyed on so many occasions. We will
:06:31. > :06:35.return to the United Kingdom with fond memories of our time here and
:06:35. > :06:45.the warm Australian welcome we have received on our 16th visit to this
:06:45. > :06:46.
:06:46. > :06:51.beautiful country. Yes, 2011 will be remembered. There
:06:51. > :06:58.was the historic visit to Ireland and a Royal wedding to look back on,
:06:58. > :07:02.a dupld jubilee to look forward to next year. Was this her final visit
:07:02. > :07:07.to Australia? As things stand at the moment, don't anyone believe it.
:07:07. > :07:11.That's all from me for now. I'll be back just before ten o'clock with
:07:11. > :07:16.the headlines, back to Andrew in Perth.
:07:16. > :07:21.So here we are in windy Western Australia, a place about the same
:07:21. > :07:26.size as Western Europe, but with a population of little more than two
:07:26. > :07:31.million people. And they haven't heard the word, "Recession" here.
:07:31. > :07:37.This place is booming, above all because of mining. They're digging
:07:37. > :07:41.out the iron ore, copper and lead and they're selling it mainly to be
:07:41. > :07:47.Chinese. So you might think that this was a kind of economic
:07:47. > :07:50.paradise, but it doesn't feel quite that way to Western Australians, or
:07:50. > :07:54.Australians generally. This is a very expensive country. They have
:07:54. > :07:57.big problems and great worries about climate change and the
:07:57. > :08:02.environment. A huge argument going on at the moment about a carbon tax.
:08:02. > :08:05.They have lots of labour problems as well. The national airline,
:08:05. > :08:11.Qantas, is grounded at the momentment and in an even bigger
:08:11. > :08:16.sense, there is a debate about the future. Are they selling themselves
:08:16. > :08:22.body and soul to China? Is this becoming a kind of new Chinese
:08:22. > :08:28.economic colony? Well, Prime Minister, Julia Gillard said at the
:08:28. > :08:36.closing press conference that one of her plans was to showcase
:08:36. > :08:43.Australia at the CHOGM. But the image has been badly dented by the
:08:43. > :08:49.Qantas strike. We had hoped to speak to Ms Gillard, but she has
:08:49. > :08:54.just jetted off in her Government plane, and leaving the rest behind,
:08:54. > :08:59.but she said this about the strike. The Government is seeking to bring
:08:59. > :09:05.industrial action to an end and to have the dispute resolved so that
:09:05. > :09:09.we can proceed with certainty, with our iconic airline, Qantas,
:09:09. > :09:13.proceeding properly and with the circumstances where employees and
:09:13. > :09:17.Qantas know what the future holds for them. As I made clear yesterday,
:09:17. > :09:21.we took this action when the dispute escalated, we did it
:09:21. > :09:27.because we were concerned about damage to the national economy. So
:09:27. > :09:32.the hearings at Fair Work Australia are in train, as we speak, as a
:09:32. > :09:37.result of the Government's action. Can I say again to Qantas and to
:09:37. > :09:42.the trade unions involved in this dispute, I believe Australians want
:09:42. > :09:48.to see this dispute settled. I want to see it settled and we have taken
:09:48. > :09:52.the appropriate action before Fair Work Australia to bring the matter
:09:52. > :09:56.before the industrial umpire. time for the papers. Australians
:09:56. > :10:04.don't really have our tradition of Sunday newspapers as such. They
:10:05. > :10:13.tend to be weekend papers. This is the Weekend West. And this is a
:10:13. > :10:19.story about the accession rules change now. And this is about the
:10:19. > :10:26.woman who would have been Queen now had this rule about the first
:10:26. > :10:30.daughter taking over in Queen Victoria's day. And she is a
:10:30. > :10:37.homeopathic Dr And the Queen's visit and Qantas
:10:37. > :10:42.are the two huge stories running here. And finally the Weekend
:10:42. > :10:46.Australia, which is almost square shaped. There's a big argument over
:10:46. > :10:51.whether the Government should have intervene in the Qantas strike
:10:51. > :10:55.earlier or not. So, welcome to you both. I should
:10:55. > :10:59.explain to viewers that we are wearing Australian poppies, which
:10:59. > :11:05.are rather different from British poppies. Rather nice I think. A
:11:05. > :11:11.little bit smaller, but a little more accurate, and more like
:11:11. > :11:17.poppies. Amanda, start for us. of Queen coverage. Even the closure
:11:17. > :11:22.of the nations main airline could not knock the Queen off the front
:11:22. > :11:28.pages. She has had the most fantastic exposure since she
:11:28. > :11:35.arrived. Everyone has commented on her clothes and that she is a good
:11:35. > :11:39.sport. And this is the Sunday times, "Our Queen" note that republicans,
:11:39. > :11:45.and that's been the most extraordinary thing. There's been
:11:45. > :11:50.no sign of it. I thought I would be covering quite a republican
:11:50. > :11:58.movement here. And people always say that every time the Queen
:11:59. > :12:04.visits the country it sets back the support for a rub blick tsh-for a
:12:04. > :12:11.republic 20 years. And this is a country that had a referendum that
:12:11. > :12:15.was narrowly lost. Nigh And there was the visit to the Tomb of the
:12:15. > :12:19.Unknown Soldier, it's very, very important for them to pay tribute
:12:19. > :12:24.to the Commonwealth soldiers who fought with the British troops in
:12:24. > :12:28.the wars. And the Queen as well has been a rock star for the
:12:28. > :12:33.Commonwealth. I can imagine all this coverage. She would get it in
:12:33. > :12:38.any Commonwealth country she went to and more. The Commonwealth has
:12:38. > :12:43.been very, very important to her right from the start. It's hard to
:12:43. > :12:48.perceive what warmth and affection the Queen has received elsewhere.
:12:48. > :12:54.There is hardly a Commonwealth country now that has not known the
:12:54. > :12:59.Queen as the head. It is part of her charm, and modesty and
:12:59. > :13:02.attraction and her sense of duty. And she's obviously been very
:13:02. > :13:06.closely involved with the Commonwealth right from the
:13:06. > :13:13.beginning. Not only involved, but everyone knows in her heart she is
:13:13. > :13:22.a big defender of the Commonwealth. I had an opportunity to speak to
:13:22. > :13:27.Her Majesty, I have an twunt about twice a year, when - an opportunity
:13:27. > :13:34.to speak to her about twice a hear h year and I take a lot of
:13:34. > :13:39.encouragement from here. And you've chosen a couple of Queeny stories
:13:39. > :13:44.from the papers. The first about women as agents of change. Girls
:13:44. > :13:51.win the right to rule. This is an iconic perfect, because you won't
:13:51. > :13:56.be able to put this together again. Just to explain to people, the
:13:56. > :14:04.Queen obviously, Julia Gillard, the Prime Minister of Australia and two
:14:04. > :14:11.other female leaders there from Pakistan and Trinidad and Tobago.
:14:11. > :14:17.That's not Pakistan, Bangladesh. beg your pardon, Bangladesh. And
:14:17. > :14:23.this lady, she was Chair of the Commonwealth. That's right and for
:14:23. > :14:29.the first time in an organisation, one woman head of government was
:14:29. > :14:33.handing over to another woman head of government. Particularly in a
:14:33. > :14:38.big organisation like the Commonwealth. Mind you, there are
:14:38. > :14:43.54 states, 5 here, and there are only three headed by women. So it
:14:43. > :14:50.is not much of an achievement. it is the first woman Prime
:14:50. > :14:58.Minister of Australia, so that's an achievement. And all the papers are
:14:58. > :15:06.full of CHOGM and the main story is about the accession. Which some say
:15:06. > :15:11.is a triumph, but it is the only triumph. I'd like to say on the
:15:11. > :15:16.realms, there are 38 other countries, and the Queen is equally
:15:16. > :15:20.popular in those countries as well. But there has been a lot of
:15:20. > :15:26.disappointment reflected on the papers that it was not possible to
:15:26. > :15:32.go further on the gay rights issue, which divides the Commonwealth
:15:32. > :15:39.deeply. I've been very clear, when I speak on behalf of the
:15:39. > :15:47.Commonwealth that you have to have reconciliation between your
:15:47. > :15:51.domestic laws and the values you subscribe to. Most of the laws are
:15:51. > :15:59.colonial laws on homosexuality which have never been changed,
:15:59. > :16:04.they've just been inherited. So what is required is a change in a
:16:05. > :16:08.legal way, to say, "Look, this is what we no longer believe in" so
:16:08. > :16:14.can you find a legal way of changing that, and some countries
:16:14. > :16:24.have done it. And talk of changing titles earlier
:16:24. > :16:30.on, First Bloke is great. It's great. The First Bloke, I don't
:16:30. > :16:37.think we've got a picture of him. don't think so. But to explain, the
:16:37. > :16:42.First Bloke is the partner There he is. Is the partner of Julia Gillard.
:16:42. > :16:48.He's a hairdresser, is that right? Yes, he does her hair, so there's
:16:48. > :16:52.no-one else to blame. And he's been showing the other wives around.
:16:52. > :16:56.We're going to talk more in a second, but let's go to London
:16:57. > :17:03.where Sophie has some news for us We certainlyly do. We have the
:17:03. > :17:08.front pages in the UK. There's very little mention of the Queen on the
:17:08. > :17:12.front pages today, instead it's Jimmy Saville who is in all the
:17:12. > :17:16.papers after the sad news of his death yesterday. And the other
:17:16. > :17:24.story, all women get the right to Caesareans. That's going to be
:17:24. > :17:29.announced this week, apparently. And the Sunday Telegraph, Jimmy
:17:29. > :17:38.Saville again. And challenge Syria at your pearl, President Assad
:17:38. > :17:44.tells the West. And the cover up at St Pauls, and the Observer, more
:17:44. > :17:51.Jimmy Saville and the Tories on Europe. And the Sunday Mirror,
:17:51. > :17:55.following Vincent Tabak's being found guilty of the murder of
:17:55. > :18:05.Joanna Yeates last week, the big story in that.
:18:05. > :18:11.And I have with me to review the papers, speech writer to Tony Blair
:18:11. > :18:16.and journalist, Phil Collins. the Sunday Times here, under the
:18:16. > :18:23.title Birth of the United States apparently David Cameron didn't
:18:23. > :18:30.sleep at all on the flight over to Perth because he's so worried about
:18:30. > :18:34.the European Union issue. And this story will keep running within
:18:34. > :18:39.British politics, 81 Tory MPs rebelled last week and they have
:18:40. > :18:43.iron in their soul on this question. The thing they always do on this is
:18:43. > :18:49.mistake the fact that the public likes their view on Europe for
:18:49. > :18:56.thinking the public cares as much as they do. So it was as if I was
:18:56. > :19:01.to say, "I think Marr is the best show on television" and you'd agree
:19:01. > :19:07.with me, but if I kept going on about it, you'd think I was a bit
:19:07. > :19:12.peculiar, that and that's they can't stop doing about Europe, they
:19:12. > :19:18.can't stop talking about it. they have to define David Cameron's
:19:18. > :19:22.position within the EU? Yes, David Cameron now has made a series of
:19:22. > :19:28.promises, which I don't think he can keep to his on backbenchers. So
:19:28. > :19:32.that story will keep going. looking at the Telegraph, the story
:19:32. > :19:38.about Italy on the brink. They have huge public debt. The way this is
:19:38. > :19:45.ram fiing now across Europe is fascinating. So Silvio Berlusconi,
:19:45. > :19:52.who is on trial for tax fraud and a whole load of other things, is
:19:52. > :19:56.perhaps near the end. He's being held up in government by Bossi, a
:19:56. > :20:00.separatist, weirdly, who is holding the European dream together and
:20:00. > :20:04.Berlusconi is now really on the brink and Italy has to come through
:20:04. > :20:10.with some serious structural reforms, otherwise they're going to
:20:10. > :20:15.collapse too. So if this crisis goes to another country, it will be
:20:15. > :20:21.Italy. And Jimmy Saville is in every single paper, quite rightly.
:20:21. > :20:27.84 years old and it's extraordinary when you read some of his
:20:27. > :20:34.achievements. 212 marathons. That's what I can't believe, having tried
:20:34. > :20:40.one! An incredible life. On the first and the last Top of the Pops.
:20:40. > :20:47.And the fantastic Jim'll Fix It, which anyone of a certain age will
:20:47. > :20:51.remember. And I wrote to it. So did I. He was such a colourful
:20:52. > :20:56.character. He was an extraordinary character. And a brilliant DJ.
:20:57. > :21:01.People forget about that. People from a later vintage don't realise
:21:02. > :21:05.he was there at the beginning when popular music went into
:21:05. > :21:11.broadcasting. He was there at the beginning. He's part of the
:21:11. > :21:15.furniture of our lives. Let's finish with the story about the
:21:15. > :21:19.protest outside St Paul's Cathedral. The Independent are running that as
:21:19. > :21:23.their main story this morning. Independent have an interesting
:21:23. > :21:27.piece that St Paul's institute, which is like the internal think
:21:27. > :21:32.thank of the cathedral, had a report, which they didn't publish
:21:32. > :21:37.last week, about the morality of pay. And that's exactly the sort of
:21:37. > :21:42.thing that the Church should be doing but they didn't publish it.
:21:42. > :21:48.And the reason they say they didn't was because it was critical of the
:21:48. > :21:52.pay in the City. And pay in the City went shooting up, and I think
:21:52. > :21:56.they should be publishing it. Everybody xepts the right to
:21:56. > :22:01.protest, of course they do, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have
:22:01. > :22:05.the right to invite 500 of your mates and camp anywhere you like.
:22:05. > :22:09.They're two different rights. We need to balance the right to
:22:09. > :22:15.protest with the right to walk through St Paul's Cathedral. Thank
:22:15. > :22:19.you very much. Now back to Australia.
:22:19. > :22:24.Sophie, thank you very much indeed Back here, we're going to carry on
:22:24. > :22:29.talking a bit about CHOGM, because part of the mood is summed up by
:22:29. > :22:39.this newspaper headline: What's it all about? And they show the best
:22:39. > :22:39.
:22:39. > :22:46.and the worst of the conference highlights and low lights. Amman
:22:46. > :22:50.Amanda? This is a piece that is savage about the Commonwealth
:22:50. > :22:55.meeting. It says it's a comic book phantom of international
:22:55. > :23:00.organisations, it is the ghost that walks. And you come in for some
:23:00. > :23:07.stick in this, I must say. These stories are fine. Things shouldn't
:23:07. > :23:12.go to my head. I keep an open mind. I look at the point they're making.
:23:12. > :23:19.The week before last, one foundation, which is very credible
:23:19. > :23:25.for giving good governance awards in Africa, gave out their results
:23:25. > :23:28.for last year. In the first eight countries that got a ranking there,
:23:28. > :23:34.seven are Commonwealth countries. In the last ten countries there's
:23:34. > :23:38.not a single one, so there's obviously something we're doing
:23:38. > :23:42.right. The eminent persons's group who produced a report, they were
:23:42. > :23:46.keen on the idea for there to be an independent commissioner for human
:23:46. > :23:51.rights. You've just been given another four years. Do you think by
:23:51. > :23:56.the time you leave the job there will be such a post? I think it
:23:56. > :24:01.will happen much quicker. There is a group of ministers who now will
:24:01. > :24:05.be able to look at how you treat your judiciary, your media, your
:24:05. > :24:11.Opposition and constitution and so on. So the whole thing is coming
:24:11. > :24:14.back to me, including this idea in order to develop a coherent,
:24:14. > :24:20.upgraded mechanism. So it hasn't been protected, it's just come to
:24:20. > :24:25.me to be put in a way that it will work. And that includes countries
:24:25. > :24:35.like Bangladesh which has a very poor human rights history at the
:24:35. > :24:35.
:24:35. > :24:45.moment. And the next chockium assist going to be there which has
:24:45. > :24:45.
:24:45. > :24:51.caused some criticism. All cogiums in the future will follow this
:24:51. > :24:58.template. I think there has to be some sympathy with the travel, the
:24:58. > :25:03.real trust is are sincere over human rights, it's not the event,
:25:03. > :25:07.it's the intent and we will look into that as well. Thank you very
:25:07. > :25:13.much both of you for now. Over to the weather. It's been glorious
:25:13. > :25:21.here in Perth in the last few days, very welcome for us sun-starved
:25:21. > :25:24.Poms, but now Chris is here to tell Poms, but now Chris is here to tell
:25:24. > :25:28.you about the weather where you are. It's not as hot here as it is in
:25:28. > :25:36.Perth, however, the temperatures are way above where they should be
:25:36. > :25:41.for this time of the year. Look at this chart. We're running
:25:41. > :25:50.about four or five degrees Celsius above where they should be at this
:25:50. > :25:56.time in October. The drizzle is petering out and
:25:56. > :26:04.we'll see increasing sunshine across England and Wales today. But
:26:04. > :26:09.overnight, a band of rain will push across south- west England and
:26:09. > :26:13.Wales and that will push up towards the west of Scotland but it will be
:26:13. > :26:17.another mild night with temperatures in double figures.
:26:17. > :26:24.On Monday, more sunshine should break out across the south-east of
:26:24. > :26:30.England and East Anglia by the afternoon, but this band of rain
:26:30. > :26:35.will make its way into Western Scotland, Wales and the south-east
:26:35. > :26:42.of Ireland. But it will continue to be warmer than average for the rest
:26:42. > :26:48.be warmer than average for the rest of the weekend. Thanks, Chris. The
:26:48. > :26:57.Rawandan genocide of the 1990s was one of the darkest periods of
:26:57. > :27:03.Africa's history. More than 800,000 people were slaughtered, some with
:27:03. > :27:12.simple machetes. Eventually the forces of Paul Kagame's Rawandan
:27:12. > :27:17.Patriot Front stopped the Civil War. He became President and introduced
:27:17. > :27:23.very successful economic reforms, but his human rights have been
:27:23. > :27:29.criticised and his presence here at CHOGM has been criticised. Rwanda
:27:29. > :27:37.is the newest country to join the Commonwealth, but it has no British
:27:37. > :27:45.colonial history, French, Belgium and German, but not British, so
:27:45. > :27:51.when I met with President Kagame I asked him: Why join? It can help us
:27:51. > :27:55.with the many needs Rwanda has, whether it's about foreign direct
:27:55. > :28:01.investment, about trade, it's about education. It's about different
:28:01. > :28:06.areas of our development we find that being in the family of nations
:28:06. > :28:10.of the Commonwealth is very beneficial. What do you say to
:28:11. > :28:18.those people that Africa is a continent that never seems to
:28:18. > :28:21.change, it never gets better, it's mired in cycles of violence and
:28:21. > :28:26.political stagnation? Those people are wrong. Certainly Africa is on
:28:26. > :28:30.the move and there is tremendous improvement. And the people need to
:28:30. > :28:35.recognise that and accept it as part of life. Africa has huge
:28:35. > :28:42.resources and people should simply do better by not looking at Africa
:28:42. > :28:50.as a place where it has to do charities or humanitarian yarian
:28:50. > :28:53.cases, it is a place to invest. Almost all the commentators on your
:28:53. > :28:58.country say similar things, that you've achieved great growth rates,
:28:58. > :29:03.that this is a clean, relatively safe, well-ordered country. However
:29:03. > :29:07.they also say you have a poor record on human rights,
:29:07. > :29:12.particularly on democracy. That the opposition parties against you, I
:29:12. > :29:17.think two were banned, three of them were unable to run against you
:29:17. > :29:23.in the election, and that if you simply look at the 93% that you got,
:29:23. > :29:27.no Democrat sick leader in a democracy gets 93%. If you look at
:29:27. > :29:33.this growth and the stability in the country, investment in women,
:29:33. > :29:39.investment in our children, which is our future. If you look at
:29:39. > :29:46.investment in infrastructure of information and commune cation,
:29:46. > :29:51.technologies, which empowers even our ordinary people in the rural
:29:51. > :29:56.areas. Now, if you, and for the security, it's about involving
:29:56. > :30:01.ordinary citizens in the making of decisions and then you say, "This
:30:01. > :30:07.is undemocratic" then I don't know what is democratic. But let me come
:30:07. > :30:15.to the point of elections. Yes. First of all, elections are taking
:30:15. > :30:21.place, that's one step. Now maybe you can criticise the actions.
:30:21. > :30:27.if they are re-elections. But I think elections are better than no
:30:28. > :30:32.elections at all. But why stop these opposition parties from
:30:32. > :30:39.taking part? (sound loss. Political parties are not stopped in any way.
:30:39. > :30:45.But as you know it, even in these democracies you praise the advanced.
:30:45. > :30:52.There are always rules to play by. Can I put a suggestion to you?
:30:52. > :30:57.right. Which is that after the terrible tribal genocide that tore
:30:57. > :31:01.your country apart, both sides committing terrible crimes, but
:31:01. > :31:06.particularly the Hutu starting the genocide. Your belief is to get the
:31:06. > :31:10.country together and to move forward that you have to go through,
:31:11. > :31:16.you are going through a period, where you have to make sure there
:31:16. > :31:22.are no tribal bases at all and to do that you have to repress parties
:31:22. > :31:27.and politics, and that's the dilemma you're in? No, no; I think
:31:28. > :31:34.this is just the general perspective of somebody sitting
:31:34. > :31:43.elsewhere and generalising. The problems are also in the government
:31:43. > :31:49.and the Democratisation and the freedoms that Rwanda wants. It's
:31:49. > :31:58.also organisations like Human watch and respected papers who say there
:31:58. > :32:02.is less democratic freedom in Rwanda than Zimbabwe. Well, if you
:32:02. > :32:09.ask Rawandans they tell you a different story. So whether you
:32:09. > :32:12.believe the story told by somebody in The Economist or another
:32:12. > :32:17.organisation rather than the Rawandans, that's your choice. But
:32:17. > :32:20.I am speaking here on behalf of the Rawandans. So you're saying to me
:32:20. > :32:26.all the stories about assassinations and the press being
:32:26. > :32:30.repressed and about unfair blocking of political opponents that this is
:32:30. > :32:36.all propaganda? It is absolute nonsense. There are people who
:32:36. > :32:40.don't want to see Rwanda improve. Who don't want to believe even what
:32:40. > :32:46.they see in Rwanda in terms of progress. We have these people.
:32:46. > :32:52.When they have a pen, they will write, they are individuals. But
:32:52. > :32:56.there are 11 million wrand yas and the most majority of them -
:32:56. > :33:00.Rawandans and the most majority of them will tell you a different
:33:00. > :33:04.story about Rwanda and about life on the ground. And it doesn't
:33:04. > :33:10.change. Thank you very much. The controversial President of
:33:10. > :33:15.Rwanda, Paul Kagame, speaking to me earlier. Rhys-Jonesy?
:33:15. > :33:19.Andrew, thank you very much. Pride & Prejudice is one of the best-
:33:19. > :33:28.loved novels in English literature. Even for those who have not read it
:33:28. > :33:37.the story of Elizabeth Bennett and the dashing Darcy is well known and
:33:37. > :33:44.there have been many adaptations on screen and television. But now, a
:33:44. > :33:53.new novel is set just after the Jane Austen novel but now they are
:33:53. > :34:03.set in a crime triller. Welcome PD James. It is rather brave to set
:34:03. > :34:07.this novel in Jane Austen's time, why did you do it? Well, it is
:34:07. > :34:14.rather brave, but I wanted to see if I could do it. And when I
:34:14. > :34:18.finished my last detective story, which is very long and had a
:34:18. > :34:24.slightly value directy air about it, I thought maybe this is the time to
:34:24. > :34:29.do it, so I began. And I didn't realise how many people at the time
:34:29. > :34:35.had done this. I didn't realise anyone had tried it at 58. It's
:34:35. > :34:41.extraordinary. I know. And I haven't read any of them, because I
:34:41. > :34:47.rather think it would so overclutter my mind. When I started
:34:47. > :34:51.reading your book I almost felt like I was betraying Jane Austen by
:34:51. > :34:56.reading something she never meant me to read about. And you've
:34:56. > :35:03.written an apology into the foreword. I did rather feel that.
:35:03. > :35:09.And like most writer, I think, one of the greatest satisfactions of
:35:09. > :35:14.writing a book is the creation of character, I've never wanted to use
:35:14. > :35:21.anybody's else's characters. But these characters are so much a part
:35:21. > :35:26.of our furniture and there is a great wish to see how did Elizabeth
:35:26. > :35:31.cope with her new life and how did Darcy cope with that terrible
:35:31. > :35:37.mother-in-law? There are sort of slight mysteries about the novel
:35:37. > :35:43.which intrigued me. I re-read it of course. One is always re-reading it
:35:43. > :35:48.and finding fresh delights in it. And then I discovered, as other
:35:48. > :35:53.people had already realised, that Elizabeth and Darcy only spent
:35:53. > :35:58.about 30 minutes in each other's sole company between the first
:35:58. > :36:01.dreadful proposal and the second successful one. And I also felt he
:36:01. > :36:06.should give her some explanation as to why he proposed in that
:36:06. > :36:15.appalling way, because the words he used to Elizabeth are not the words
:36:15. > :36:22.a gentleman of that age, or any age, would use to a woman he purported
:36:22. > :36:26.to love. And your skel, - sequel, you're very faithful to the words
:36:26. > :36:36.and tone of Jane Austen and it must have been difficult to set a crime
:36:36. > :36:44.back in the 1800s? I did try to get the crime right, but it wasn't
:36:44. > :36:52.difficult because I've read Jane Austen and re-read Austen, - if I
:36:52. > :37:00.was asked to do a sequel in another genre I think I'd be lost - but
:37:00. > :37:06.somehow this wasn't so bad. I think I know what happens in a trial in
:37:06. > :37:11.that time, but what real life is like, we are some Wahid away. And
:37:11. > :37:15.we had a problem with pistols and there is still controversy about
:37:16. > :37:20.that. You're an extraordinary woman, you're 91 years old and still
:37:20. > :37:24.writing at a really, really high standard. Are you writing every
:37:24. > :37:28.day? I was when I was doing this book, but I'm not at the moment.
:37:28. > :37:34.I'm sort of recovering and wonderering what I should do next.
:37:34. > :37:38.There is always a fear, one has to be honest about this, that the
:37:38. > :37:43.creative energy isn't so great and the words don't come quite so
:37:43. > :37:53.easily. And I couldn't bear for the standard to fall. The worst thing
:37:53. > :38:00.would be for people to write, "Considering she wrote this at 94,
:38:00. > :38:03.it's good but hardly the style of PD James." But that's what is so
:38:03. > :38:08.astonishing you've gone for something completely different.
:38:08. > :38:13.is. But it was great fun. I was living in that world, but of course
:38:13. > :38:18.that always happens I enter into the world of the novel and I
:38:18. > :38:23.entered into that world. And you write your novels long-hand, no
:38:24. > :38:28.computers for you? I do. I've always done that. I write long-hand
:38:28. > :38:34.and then I dictate to my secretary, who is absolutely invaluable to me.
:38:34. > :38:39.And she puts it on the computer. On the whole, I'm best kept away from
:38:39. > :38:43.the computer, as soon as I touch it does extraordinary things! And then
:38:43. > :38:48.she prints it out and I can check it as I go. And the advantage of
:38:48. > :38:53.that is that I can hear the rhythm of the words and hear the dialogue.
:38:53. > :38:58.It's a wonderful way of doing it, but it depends on having someone
:38:58. > :39:07.like my Joyce, who can produce an absolutely perfect page of
:39:07. > :39:12.manuscript, just with me reading it. I don't have to say, "New paragraph,
:39:12. > :39:16.exclamation mark" nothing. And that's a real skill. It is. Thank
:39:16. > :39:23.you very much for coming in to talk to us. Oh, it's been lovely talking
:39:23. > :39:31.to you and I hope everyone enjoys it as much as I enjoyed writing it
:39:31. > :39:34.and I hope Jane Austen forgives me. Thank you very much, back to an
:39:35. > :39:39.drufplt Of course Jane Austen will forgive
:39:39. > :39:43.here. Of course it is fair to say the
:39:43. > :39:49.Queen was the star at CHOGM and she had a family interest at the
:39:49. > :39:55.beginning of the week, namely, to allow a first-born daughter to
:39:55. > :39:59.accede to the throne. That was one of the issues I raised earlier with
:39:59. > :40:03.the Prime Minister, where had the idea come from? This has been an
:40:03. > :40:07.idea that has been around for a while. Previous prime ministers
:40:07. > :40:10.have talked about it and promoted it. Parliament has talked about it,
:40:10. > :40:13.the Royal Family has talked about. It has been known that we ought
:40:13. > :40:18.really to do something about this and this was a great opportunity.
:40:18. > :40:23.You have the heads of the 16 countries where the Queen is head
:40:23. > :40:27.of state all together. So it was a great opportunity to write to them
:40:27. > :40:33.in advance to try and set the issue up and we had a successful meeting
:40:33. > :40:37.and they all agreed to go ahead. So there is still some work to be done,
:40:37. > :40:44.but it is agreeds now that if the first-born of Prince William and
:40:44. > :40:50.Kate is a girl, that girl will be our Queen. Fascinating, but the
:40:50. > :41:00.other side of it, the Roman Catholic change isn't that another
:41:00. > :41:00.
:41:00. > :41:08.unpicking of the Church of England as the established role there?
:41:08. > :41:17.I think what we're saying here is that the current heir to the throne
:41:17. > :41:25.could marry a Roman Catholic, just as such as they could a Hindu or a
:41:25. > :41:30.Sikh. But the person on the thrown has to be Church of England. But
:41:30. > :41:34.the chance to marry has gone. So we chose the two things we wanted to
:41:34. > :41:40.do on the basis that they were the most important, could be agreed by
:41:40. > :41:44.the 16 and they could be carried through by law. And the other great
:41:44. > :41:47.conversation at the summit was an independent commissioner on human
:41:47. > :41:54.rights. And it seems the Commonwealth has looked in the
:41:54. > :41:59.mirror and thought, "Shall we be truthless or shall we have teeth?
:41:59. > :42:03.Let's be toothless?." I think that's unfair. There were two key
:42:03. > :42:07.recommendations, one is to have a charter to set out that we believe
:42:07. > :42:12.in democracy and rights and freedom. That is the sort of organisation
:42:12. > :42:16.with values that we are. That has been accepted. And the issue about
:42:16. > :42:21.the commissioner for human rights has not been rejected it's just
:42:21. > :42:27.looking at exactly how the role will be filled and the relation to
:42:27. > :42:31.the secretariat of the Commonwealth. So it hasn't been put off entirely.
:42:31. > :42:37.But that's disappointment. We heard that Sri Lanka and India were
:42:37. > :42:41.against it and that's why it hasn't happened. I think the charter gives
:42:41. > :42:45.an indication that the Commonwealth is serious. Britain always wants
:42:45. > :42:49.the Commonwealth to be the best to do the most and have the clearest
:42:49. > :42:53.set of values, but I think this is a step forward. You have to
:42:54. > :42:58.remember with the Commonwealth, it's association of 54 states, a
:42:58. > :43:05.third of the world's population, countries from six different
:43:05. > :43:08.continents. It is a voluntary body that has to progress by consensus.
:43:08. > :43:14.But it is a good organisation and the values have just got clearer
:43:14. > :43:20.and stronger and I think that's important. There are 36 members of
:43:20. > :43:28.the Commonwealth, a large number, who discriminate savage yaingly in
:43:28. > :43:33.some cases, against homosexuals. I think in Uganda you can get ten
:43:33. > :43:39.years for homosexual. This is something that people looked to
:43:39. > :43:42.this summit to take a hard line on and it hasn't. Different
:43:42. > :43:47.Commonwealth countries are in a different position on this, and we
:43:47. > :43:53.want them to move. We're not just talking about, we're also saying
:43:53. > :43:58.that British aid should have more strings attached, in that do you
:43:58. > :44:03.persecute people for their believes or their sexuality, and we don't
:44:03. > :44:09.think that's acceptable. Only Canada and Australia raised the
:44:09. > :44:15.issue and Britain didn't. No, we've been raising the issue here
:44:15. > :44:20.continuously. And I have further sessions to have and I'll be
:44:20. > :44:26.raising it again too. And also about our aid policies. Which
:44:26. > :44:34.countries have you raised it with, can I ask? I've been raising it
:44:34. > :44:40.with a number of African countries. Uganda and Rwanda? I can't give you
:44:40. > :44:45.the names, but even more than raising it, saying very clearly
:44:45. > :44:51.that remember Britain is now one of the premier aid giveers in the
:44:51. > :44:58.world and we want to see countries that receive our aid are adhering
:44:58. > :45:04.to proper human rights and that in cluds behaviour towards people.
:45:04. > :45:11.you're saying if you don't change your laws on homosexuality we will
:45:11. > :45:17.reduce our aid? Yes, we're saying there are particularly bad examples
:45:17. > :45:22.where we have taken action. What examples can you give? Well,
:45:22. > :45:27.they're just in a different place to us. If you go back in our own
:45:27. > :45:33.history there are times when we, until recently, discriminated in
:45:33. > :45:37.lots of ways. We need to help these countries on their journeys and
:45:37. > :45:44.that's exactly what we'll do. next meeting like this is supposed
:45:44. > :45:48.to be taking place in Sri Lanka. If there has not been significant
:45:48. > :45:52.improvement in their records oven human rights, will you be going?
:45:52. > :45:57.The Canadians will be boycotting it? We want to see Sri Lanka do
:45:57. > :46:02.more in terms of human rights and reconciliation after the defeat of
:46:02. > :46:06.the Tamil Tigers. I've had that conversation myself with the
:46:06. > :46:11.President of that country, who is here. And they should be aware of
:46:12. > :46:17.the fact that they're holding this Commonwealth Summit in 20134, and
:46:17. > :46:22.it's up to them to show this progress so they can welcome the
:46:22. > :46:28.maximum number of countries when they do. If they don't, will you
:46:28. > :46:32.go? I I'm not answering that question at the moment. But the
:46:32. > :46:38.Tamil Tigers have been defeated, and the current President is in
:46:38. > :46:42.government and I've said to him you have a chance to demonstrate change
:46:42. > :46:47.tot rest of the world and I think that's important that that pressure
:46:47. > :46:55.is applied. And this has been a chance. This is a chance for you to
:46:55. > :47:01.speak to a lot of leaders that you don't often meet last l - meet and
:47:01. > :47:11.you've been speaking to some about the difficulty of piracy in
:47:11. > :47:17.Somalia? That's right. These meetings bring together a lot of
:47:17. > :47:22.disparate people, and I've been speaking to them. And I've been
:47:22. > :47:27.speaking with the Kenyans. What we're going to do and this is
:47:27. > :47:32.important, we're going to say to British flag ships that they can be
:47:32. > :47:38.licensed if they want to to have armed guards on those ships. The
:47:38. > :47:42.evidence is that armed ships don't get attacked or taken hostage for
:47:42. > :47:46.ransom. But we're going to have to licence that in a proper way. And
:47:46. > :47:52.the Home Office has agreed to do that. But I think this is a bick
:47:52. > :48:01.step up for our campaign against this prirsy. But it is a dramatic
:48:01. > :48:07.step because it means in effect you'll be licensing civilian
:48:07. > :48:12.Britons, non-military Britons to shoot to kill. It is, but the
:48:12. > :48:18.extent of the hijacking and ransom of ships around the Horn of Africa
:48:18. > :48:23.is a complete stain on our world. The fact that prirts are managing
:48:23. > :48:27.hold to ransom our trading system is an insult. So the whole of the
:48:28. > :48:32.rest of the world needs to come together with vigour to handle that.
:48:32. > :48:36.And we're taking this step to put armed guards on our ships so they
:48:36. > :48:40.don't get attacked. I want to make sure more of these pirates face
:48:40. > :48:45.justice and that's why we're working with other countries. And I
:48:45. > :48:51.want to have far greater look at the justice in Somalia and how we
:48:51. > :48:58.can deal with the causes of the hijacking, the ransoms and the
:48:58. > :49:02.piracy flowing out of that country. And do you see a way of getting
:49:02. > :49:07.these people tried and in Prince, there is no way of trying them?
:49:07. > :49:14.of the countries trying them and imprisoning them right now are not
:49:14. > :49:19.wealthy countries, but they are represented here, the Seychelles
:49:19. > :49:24.and Mauritius. But there are other options we can take to make sure
:49:24. > :49:28.these people face justice, but one of the things we can do is to have
:49:28. > :49:32.armed guards on the ships to make sure they don't get attacked and I
:49:32. > :49:37.think it will be effective. Back home, one of the biggest rising
:49:37. > :49:43.bubbles of anger that is starting to come through are among older
:49:43. > :49:47.people and pensioners who feel they are being dealt with very savagely
:49:47. > :49:55.by the inflation that is being pumped through the economy and
:49:55. > :50:01.nobody is paying attention to that? I feel very sorry for households on
:50:01. > :50:07.tight budgets and they're seeing rising prices. The Bank of England
:50:07. > :50:12.which was supposed to be keeping inflation at 2% are cheerfully and
:50:12. > :50:16.happily seeing it at 6%. They're not happy about it and every time
:50:16. > :50:19.it rises they have to write a letter to explain why. The Bank of
:50:19. > :50:22.England believe what we're seeing is a temporary rise in the price
:50:22. > :50:27.level that has come through particularly from lower sterling,
:50:27. > :50:31.the price of imports, from high food prices in the rest of the
:50:31. > :50:37.world. They believe that is a temporary phenomenon. That is their
:50:37. > :50:43.judgment. But you're not looking over your shoulder and people are
:50:43. > :50:53.saying, tactly taxon is more concerned with growth and
:50:53. > :50:54.
:50:54. > :51:00.employment of young people.. But it is the bank's job to deal with
:51:00. > :51:05.inflation. We've announced a cut in petrol duty, and we've made
:51:05. > :51:08.announcements on council tax. I'm acutely aware of people facing
:51:08. > :51:12.tough budgets and they want a Government on their side and that's
:51:12. > :51:20.exactly what this Government will be. After the late night in
:51:20. > :51:26.Brussels and the new agreement on the EuroZone, we see a two- speed
:51:26. > :51:31.Europe and a -upeo zone of the EuroZone and the other countries,
:51:31. > :51:35.including Britain, outside of that. Is this not the perfect time to
:51:35. > :51:39.really re-think our relationship with that inner core and not be to
:51:39. > :51:43.frightened of having a referendum and not to be frightened of putting
:51:43. > :51:49.hard questions in front of the British people? We have to take
:51:49. > :51:53.this in stages and at every stage the key thing to me is what is the
:51:54. > :52:00.national interest? And the reason I insisted on having a proper whip is
:52:00. > :52:07.I don't think this is the right time to have an in, out referendum
:52:07. > :52:10.on report. We need to be setting the rules. Let me stop you, even if
:52:10. > :52:16.the economy changes as a result of what has been changed. Let's use
:52:16. > :52:21.this moment, yes, as the EuroZone countries go ahead, as they must,
:52:21. > :52:25.to try to co-ordinate and combine more, I think it's right that those
:52:25. > :52:30.countries not in the euro ask for some arrangements and guarantees
:52:30. > :52:33.that the single market is going to be properly protected. There is a
:52:33. > :52:38.concern that the 17 are going off to do more together that could
:52:38. > :52:42.impact on the single market and I want to stop that. Which means you
:52:42. > :52:47.have to rely on the old commission because they're the only people who
:52:47. > :52:51.can stop that happening? I commission has a useful purpose in
:52:51. > :52:59.the European Union, and we should always work with the commission to
:52:59. > :53:03.try to make Europe help drive growth. You said yesterday that the
:53:03. > :53:08.Whitehall officials were working really hard on how we were going to
:53:08. > :53:12.repatriate powers and which powers we were going to repatriate.
:53:12. > :53:17.Really? What is happening here is there is a coalition agreement to
:53:17. > :53:25.look at the balance of powers between Britain and Brussels. And
:53:25. > :53:31.Whitehall are carrying out that exercise. But frankly we are in a
:53:31. > :53:35.coalition and the lib democrats are in favour of some way of
:53:35. > :53:39.rebalancing and the Conservatives are greatly in favour of that, but
:53:40. > :53:44.the Labour Party isn't in favour of any rebalancing. You do think that,
:53:44. > :53:48.but it sounds to me as if you also think there's no way you're going
:53:48. > :53:55.to be able to do anything about that during this Parliament.
:53:55. > :54:01.don't accept that, because I've made the point already that as the
:54:01. > :54:06.EuroZone deepens, we have to accept it and that mean change. But the
:54:06. > :54:11.Germans are also looking for treaty change for the EuroZone. If they do
:54:11. > :54:16.that, there may be opportunities for Britain to look at our position
:54:16. > :54:20.in that. But people should understand that I think as the
:54:20. > :54:25.EuroZone develops there will be greater time for greater
:54:25. > :54:30.rebalancing and for Britain to reach a greater and more safari
:54:30. > :54:34.position in our relationship with Europe. I would like to see further
:54:34. > :54:38.re-balancing, but we have to act as a coalition. So it doesn't seem as
:54:38. > :54:43.if we're likely to get something back from Brussels during the
:54:43. > :54:49.lifetime of this particular Government? I don't accept that. We
:54:49. > :54:56.already got the bailout powers back. Because that put British tax money
:54:56. > :55:01.at risk. And I got the treaty amended so we're not in that scheme
:55:01. > :55:08.from 2013. So I got the bailout money back, if you like. What we
:55:08. > :55:13.don't know is how the treaty change will be within the EuroZone, so we
:55:13. > :55:18.don't know what our opportunities will be. But just as I got the
:55:18. > :55:23.bailout power back, because that was good for Britain, I'm looking
:55:23. > :55:29.at ways to further our interests in Britain Thank you very much. Back
:55:29. > :55:34.to London. Commonwealth nation leaders
:55:34. > :55:42.insisted Sunday that they had made sweeping progress at their summit
:55:42. > :55:47.despite failing to agree on a key human rights paper. The Prime
:55:47. > :55:53.Minister, Julia Gillard who had pushed for a Human Rights Watch dog
:55:53. > :55:58.through the meeting still said they had made progress because of a
:55:58. > :56:04.strengthening of the role the Commonwealth can play in human
:56:04. > :56:10.rights abuses. During this programme, the Prime
:56:10. > :56:15.Minister said that countries receiving British human aid would
:56:15. > :56:23.have be look at their treatment of human rights.
:56:24. > :56:30.Back to Andrew in Perth am Amanda Platell and cam lash Sharma
:56:30. > :56:35.have joined me again. Do you think it was fair, the point that David
:56:35. > :56:43.Cameron was making that a country like Britain should link aid
:56:43. > :56:48.directly to a country's position on human rights? But the Commonwealth
:56:48. > :56:53.is not that kind of organisation. People reach out for a helping hand
:56:53. > :56:57.and if they want help in strengthening their human rights
:56:57. > :57:03.institution, internally and nationally and helping them with
:57:03. > :57:09.the human rights Council we'll be ready to do anything like that.
:57:09. > :57:16.Amanda, a native of Perth and Perth has changed a great deal, I suspect,
:57:16. > :57:23.since you grew up here, one thing everyone notices are the an ringal
:57:23. > :57:32.greetings that pre creed - certainly everywhere the Queen
:57:32. > :57:41.turned up, there was an Aboriginal greeting. And a fantastic
:57:41. > :57:47.exhibition of their art. That's true. And the paintings in that
:57:47. > :57:52.exhibition are spectacular. They're unlike any I've ever seen. And I
:57:52. > :57:57.didn't appreciate they were telling a story about the journey across
:57:57. > :58:07.Australia? That's right. And everywhere the Queen went there
:58:07. > :58:08.
:58:08. > :58:16.would be a person from the Norma tribe there, so there would be
:58:16. > :58:20.people all around the Queen who own multi-million dollar houses, but
:58:20. > :58:28.everywhere she went there was a little lady coming to her and
:58:28. > :58:36.saying, "I'm pleased to invite you to my land." When I grew up, the
:58:36. > :58:42.tribe's name was a really rude word, but now, thank goodness, it is a
:58:42. > :58:48.word of deep respect. Good, right. Well on that note of deep respect,
:58:48. > :58:58.I thank you all for joining us, and Sophie for holding the fort in
:58:58. > :59:01.