:00:40. > :00:44.9 on BBC Two. Good morning. A lot of people must have watched the
:00:44. > :00:50.capture yesterday in the desert of Saif Al-Islam, Gaddafi's favourite
:00:50. > :00:53.son, with mixed feelings. Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, the
:00:53. > :00:57.financier Nat Rosthchild, British academics, he was friendly with
:00:57. > :01:01.them all. He'd promised to fight the last bullet, but he's now going
:01:01. > :01:05.to stand trial in Libya. That's a man with some stories to tell.
:01:05. > :01:09.Joining me today to review the Sunday newspapers, the BBC's World
:01:09. > :01:14.Editor John Simpson, who's met Saif Gaddafi, as well as his late father,
:01:14. > :01:19.the actress and writer Maureen Lipman and following the Berlin
:01:19. > :01:23.summit, Tim Montgomerie, Editor of the influential Conservative home
:01:23. > :01:27.website. Crunch time is coming - on Wednesday week, teachers, civil
:01:27. > :01:30.servants, police support staff and hundreds of thousands of others
:01:30. > :01:34.will strike at the government plans to limit their pensions. More than
:01:34. > :01:38.two million workers are set to walk out on November 30th, a move which
:01:38. > :01:42.will disrupt everywhere from schools to courts, driving test
:01:42. > :01:46.centres, hospitals. So, any chance of a deal? This morning we'll hear
:01:46. > :01:50.from the Head of The latest big union to join the strike action,
:01:50. > :01:53.Chris Keates, and from the Cabinet Minister at the heart of the talks,
:01:53. > :01:57.Francis Maude. Is there any more the Government is prepared to
:01:57. > :02:01.concede? And if there is no more carrot, when will we see some
:02:01. > :02:07.stick? Also today, Ken Livingstone, former London Mayor, socialist
:02:07. > :02:11.outsider, loved and loathed in equal measure, hoping to get his
:02:11. > :02:16.old job back. We are going to hear from Ken on the anti-capitalist
:02:16. > :02:20.protests going on right now. Plus one of Britain's finest
:02:20. > :02:25.Shakespearian actors whose film about Marilyn Monroe and Laurence
:02:25. > :02:30.Olivier is broadcast tonight. Kenneth Brannagh is filming in
:02:30. > :02:34.Wallender. For those who remember the Strawbs and Fairport Convention,
:02:34. > :02:38.something surprising from a modern folk singer, Theo Gilmour who'll
:02:38. > :02:41.reveal all later. First the news with Louise:
:02:41. > :02:46.Good morning. Libya's promised to give a fair trial to the son of
:02:46. > :02:52.Colonel Gaddafi, who was captured yesterday. Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi is
:02:52. > :02:55.being held in the northern town of zin tan after being captured in the
:02:55. > :02:58.southern desert. He's wanted by the International Criminal Court to
:02:58. > :03:05.face charges of crimes against humanity.
:03:05. > :03:10.Photographs on the plane carrying him from the southern desert to
:03:10. > :03:15.Zintan, Saif, the heavy beard and Bedouin dressed familiar
:03:15. > :03:19.fashionable glasses. When the plane landed, he appeared agitated. A
:03:19. > :03:24.crowd surrounded the safe craft, climbing on the top of it, banging
:03:24. > :03:29.on the fuselage. The Libyan Prime Minister said Saif would be kept
:03:29. > :03:35.for the time being in Zintan, then tried in Libya.
:03:35. > :03:39.He will get his day in court and it will be a just and proper justice
:03:39. > :03:42.that will be applied. When Saif was captured, his fingers were wrapped
:03:42. > :03:48.in dressings, he said he was injured in a NATO airstrike a month
:03:48. > :03:53.ago. The men who found him say he gave up without a fight, despite
:03:53. > :04:00.his previous bravado. We have plan A, plan B, plan C.
:04:00. > :04:09.Plan A is to live and die in Libya. Plan B is to live and die in Libya.
:04:09. > :04:15.Plan C is to live and die in Libya. Saif Al-Islam may yet get his wish.
:04:15. > :04:18.A Libyan court could impose the death penalty.
:04:18. > :04:22.A row has broken out between nursing leaders and the Government
:04:22. > :04:26.over the number of jobs being cut in the NHS. The Royal College of
:04:26. > :04:32.Nursing says almost 50,000 jobs will go in England's Health Service
:04:32. > :04:35.by 2014. The Government has accused the RCN of scare morpbging and says
:04:36. > :04:41.efficiency saverings can be made at the same time as improving patient
:04:41. > :04:44.care -- scaremongering. The NHS in England is under huge pressure
:04:44. > :04:48.financially. Managers have been told to find �20 billion worth of
:04:48. > :04:52.efficiency savings in the next four years. The money is meant to go
:04:52. > :04:56.back into frontline services. The RCN believes patient care is being
:04:56. > :05:01.effected by the push for economies. It's been tracking job cuts since
:05:01. > :05:06.April 2010. Since then, it's heard of nearly 50,000 posts that are
:05:06. > :05:11.under threat or have closed already out of a total of 1.4 million,
:05:11. > :05:14.that's 30,000 more than a year ago. It believes many are clinical staff
:05:14. > :05:18.directly involved in patient care. Some of the hospitals involved are
:05:18. > :05:22.disputed the figures, but the RCN said there was clear evidence of
:05:22. > :05:25.more jobs coming under threat, putting patients at risk.
:05:25. > :05:31.The Government accused the union of scaremongering and said the NHS
:05:31. > :05:34.should be able to make efficiently si savings at the same time as
:05:34. > :05:38.improving patient care The Syrian President has said there
:05:38. > :05:42.will be no let up in his crackdown on the anti-government protests
:05:42. > :05:47.which have killed an estimated 3,500 people. A key opposition
:05:47. > :05:51.group has this morning reported that a major building belonging to
:05:51. > :05:55.the ruling Ba'ath Party in Damascus has been hit by several rocket-
:05:55. > :05:58.propelled grenades. Bashar Al-Assad's regime has been
:05:58. > :06:02.criticised by the United Nations and the Arab League. But, in an
:06:02. > :06:07.interview with the Sunday Times, he promised Syria would not bow down
:06:07. > :06:10.to any outside influences. At least two people have been
:06:10. > :06:16.killed in thrashes between police and democracy campaigners in the
:06:16. > :06:20.Egyptian capital Cairo. Hundreds of people are reported to have been
:06:20. > :06:27.injured around Tahrir skwaifrplt the protesters want Egypt's ruling
:06:27. > :06:29.council to return power to a civilian Government -- Tahrir
:06:29. > :06:33.Square. A 32-year-old man has been arrested on the suspicion of
:06:33. > :06:36.attempted murder after four policemen were injured in North
:06:36. > :06:40.London yesterday. Three of the officers received stab injuries,
:06:40. > :06:44.the fourth has a broken hand and a broken thumb.
:06:44. > :06:47.The Home Secretary has praised the officers for their bravery.
:06:47. > :06:51.That's all from me for the moment, I'll be back with the headlines
:06:51. > :06:57.just before ten. The National Association of School
:06:57. > :07:01.teachers has just voted to join the strike over pension reform. Unless
:07:01. > :07:05.things change, thousands of teachers will walk out on Wednesday
:07:05. > :07:09.week. Chris Keates join us us from Birmingham. Good morning. Good
:07:09. > :07:13.morning. Your members are going to disrupt children's education all
:07:13. > :07:18.around the country. Even though the package that the Government has
:07:18. > :07:23.offered you means that nobody who is within ten years of retiring
:07:23. > :07:28.will find their pension affected. Why is this strike justified?
:07:28. > :07:31.this is the first time in over a decade that the NASUWT has balloted
:07:31. > :07:37.its members for industrial action and actually our members would
:07:37. > :07:42.prefer not to strike. We've engaged constructively with the Government
:07:42. > :07:48.in the negotiations. I've been in with the TUC-led negotiations. What
:07:48. > :07:52.we faced is actually month after month of provarcation and no
:07:52. > :07:57.progress being made in terms of providing us with information in
:07:57. > :08:02.data we need, providing us with evidence that there is a problem
:08:02. > :08:07.with the teachers' pension scheme, and our members have therefore been
:08:07. > :08:11.faced with no alternative but to actually move to a ballot for
:08:11. > :08:14.industrial action. If I can just interrupt there.
:08:15. > :08:20.There have been a series of concessions by the Government since
:08:20. > :08:24.this process started. What do you now need to hear from Francis Maude
:08:24. > :08:30.or other ministers which would stop members striking? First of all, at
:08:30. > :08:34.the 11th hour, the Government's put on the table some amendments to
:08:34. > :08:37.their proposals which were welcome and we welcomed them at the time.
:08:37. > :08:41.But actually, they need to be examined very carefully to make
:08:41. > :08:46.sure that that data stacks up. At the moment, we are involved in
:08:46. > :08:49.frantic activity to try to see what those proposals will actually mean.
:08:50. > :08:54.So, to be clear, there is a possibility that you will not go on
:08:54. > :09:00.strike at the end of the month if the new proposals mean what you
:09:00. > :09:04.hope they do?: well, I believe everybody engaged in this process
:09:04. > :09:08.has got a responsibility to try to avoid strike action if that's
:09:09. > :09:11.possible. But the fact of the matter is that we've been put under
:09:11. > :09:16.tremendous pressure, we have a ridiculous time scale in which to
:09:16. > :09:20.try to resolve these issues, we have to do very, very detailed work,
:09:20. > :09:24.pensions are complex issues and they're complex issues in terms of
:09:24. > :09:29.finding out with what the latest offer from the Government actually
:09:29. > :09:34.stacks up and delivers the kind of things that the Government is
:09:34. > :09:40.saying that it will. All right. Thank you very much.
:09:40. > :09:49.Now to the Sunday newspapers as ever. Lots and lots of Saif Al-
:09:49. > :09:53.Islam all over the front of The Sunday Times. University to axe
:09:53. > :09:57.5,000 degree courses there too as the cuts bite. President Assad we
:09:57. > :10:01.heard there on the news will die heard there on the news will die
:10:01. > :10:08.for his country if he needs to. Saif again. What secrets will he
:10:08. > :10:14.reveal, Gaddafi's play boy son cowers when he's caught.
:10:14. > :10:20.Same thing on The Independent on Sunday. Captured. Scotland on
:10:20. > :10:23.Sunday says the English now are becoming less British. Interesting
:10:23. > :10:27.Scottish perspective on the union there. The Observer has a story
:10:27. > :10:33.saying the Church of England bishops are uniting to condemn the
:10:33. > :10:39.coalition cuts on the poorest. Also, The Sunday Telegraph, windfarms are
:10:39. > :10:43.useless says the Duke of Edinburgh. Yoing me, Maureen Lipman, Tim
:10:43. > :10:48.Montgomerie and John Simpson, thank you all very much indeed -- joining
:10:48. > :10:52.me. Let us start with Saif Al-Islam who you have met? I have. I was
:10:52. > :10:55.rather taken but all the stuff we used to get from Peter Mandelson
:10:55. > :11:01.and by extension from Tony Blair that he was a serious statesman and
:11:01. > :11:07.that he was a serious statesman and so forth. But, as indeed my friend
:11:07. > :11:12.writes in The Sunday Times today, I mean, he was actually a bit of a
:11:12. > :11:18.nutcase. Who could help having a father like that being brought up
:11:18. > :11:22.like that, of course, but he wasn't a play boy. Colvin points that out.
:11:22. > :11:26.He managed to avoid that. I think he thought he was a serious
:11:26. > :11:30.character and the only reasons he wasn't were because of his
:11:30. > :11:33.background. Is there something, tragic is not the word to use about
:11:33. > :11:37.this family, but nonetheless morally interesting about someone
:11:37. > :11:41.who wanted to be a reformer and wanted all his friends in the West,
:11:41. > :11:44.but in the end blood ties, you know, he's still a Gaddafi, in the end,
:11:45. > :11:51.he still has to stand with his father?
:11:51. > :11:57.It's a collectors' item. I can't see anything really serious or
:11:57. > :12:03.tragic about the whole thing. The whole Gaddafi atmosphere was so
:12:03. > :12:08.loony, so crazy. The only question is, and this is the main story in
:12:08. > :12:14.the Sunday Times, Labour donors secret links to Gaddafi's son, then
:12:15. > :12:19.inside, Gaddafi's son may spill British secrets. Only question is,
:12:19. > :12:23.why on earth were people foolish enough to think that Gaddafi and
:12:23. > :12:31.his son were going to be there for ever, because nowadays, I've been
:12:31. > :12:37.in the last few years, been to let's see, how many, three I think
:12:37. > :12:42.leading trials, Saddam Hussein, Mubarak's trial recently, I hope to
:12:42. > :12:50.be at Saif's trial. These things do not go to the grave with leaders
:12:50. > :12:56.any longer. They get stopped at some stage. Either they stop or get
:12:56. > :13:00.overthrown. A great mistake to get mixed up financially with them or
:13:00. > :13:05.politically. Al-Assad watching from Syria of course? Yes. There's an
:13:05. > :13:10.excellent article by Patrick Coburn this The Independent on Sunday and
:13:10. > :13:13.the headline really is the key to it: Compared to Syria, the fall of
:13:13. > :13:19.Libya wiz a piece of cake. Not only I would say a piece of cake, but
:13:19. > :13:24.also with nothing like the kind of significance that Syria has. What
:13:24. > :13:28.happens with Syria, Patrick Cockburn stresses the point will
:13:28. > :13:31.happen in one way or another to the entire Middle East. Libya, it was a
:13:31. > :13:37.side show, it was that much really in the history books.
:13:37. > :13:42.Yes. Talking of dictators toppling or wobbling, you have been very
:13:42. > :13:46.involved of course in the cause of Burma, Maureen, which is in today's
:13:46. > :13:50.papers again? It's beginning to sort of open up much more slowly
:13:50. > :13:59.and of course, the old men are still there? They are, and they
:13:59. > :14:02.will topple. The only paper that ice picked up this amazing Burmese
:14:02. > :14:08.winter is The Observer and it's a tiny column and that's always the
:14:08. > :14:13.case with Burma. Drives me crazy. You can't get any news. Here is
:14:13. > :14:17.this extraordinary woman, Nobel Peace Prize winner this year just
:14:17. > :14:22.released from a jail last November, house arrest last November and
:14:22. > :14:25.suddenly the country is opening up, she's saying come to Burma and
:14:25. > :14:29.she's doing the lectures and they are allowing her out of the house
:14:29. > :14:33.and are allowing her possibly to stand for Parliament. And that is
:14:33. > :14:35.an incredible story. A dramatic moment? Yes, that seems to always
:14:35. > :14:39.take second place to the Middle East.
:14:39. > :14:43.Yes. Let's turn to domestic politics, Tim. There's a huge
:14:43. > :14:49.amount of interesting stuff in today's papers. You are starting
:14:49. > :14:52.with the Observer, are you? We have We have the Church of England in
:14:52. > :14:56.their usual default position I think when there is criticism of
:14:56. > :15:00.the Tory Prime Minister. The issue they've chosen this time is the
:15:00. > :15:03.proposal from the Government to introduce a benefits cap which will
:15:03. > :15:10.mean that no family can receive more benefits than the average
:15:10. > :15:14.family which is �26,000. Now, this is a hugely popular policy with
:15:14. > :15:19.most voters. I think most voters say, you don't fight poverty by
:15:19. > :15:24.benefits, you fight poverty with work, with education and with
:15:24. > :15:29.family. You have the church wondering why it's irrelevant to so
:15:30. > :15:33.much of society and picking a fight with the vast majority of voters,
:15:33. > :15:38.not just the Government, and not supporting the action that will
:15:38. > :15:42.tackle poverty which is education and work.
:15:42. > :15:48.It's interesting about who will and won't take jobs in this country in
:15:48. > :15:53.the papers as well. Another story oufr. They missed a fantastic
:15:53. > :16:03.opportunity, they had a population out there to preach to outside St
:16:03. > :16:08.
:16:08. > :16:13.Somebody else speaking out is the Duke of Edinburgh this morning.
:16:13. > :16:17.wasn't speaking out, he was talking privately to someone. I get really
:16:17. > :16:22.sick of newspapers. The Sunday Telegraph has been good at that
:16:22. > :16:28.kind of stuff. Do you remember when the Queen Mother was talking about
:16:29. > :16:34.what she thought about Europe? It got into the Sunday Telegraph, I
:16:34. > :16:38.think. He it's nothing to do with why they were there. It was the
:16:38. > :16:42.17th anniversary of the Council of Christian Jews, and some man who
:16:42. > :16:50.owns wind farms went up to the Duke of Edinburgh and said "so what do
:16:50. > :16:54.you think of these wind farms?". And the Duke of Edinburgh told him!
:16:54. > :16:58.This is a question of whether the Duke of Edinburgh likes being
:16:59. > :17:06.quoted on the front of newspapers or not, but he is speaking for a
:17:06. > :17:11.large number of people. But of course he stands to gain from wind
:17:11. > :17:17.farms, but the question is do they work? All so how much they cost
:17:17. > :17:25.people. There is a story about the man who fitted solar panels to
:17:25. > :17:30.David Cameron's own house. It just seems that the whole climate change
:17:30. > :17:35.debate has moved on so much since we went into recession. The average
:17:35. > :17:39.family pays �90 a year because of the cost of renewable energies.
:17:39. > :17:45.Whereas we were happy, when we could afford to, to worry about
:17:45. > :17:54.green issues, but now we are struggling to make ends meet at the
:17:54. > :17:59.cost of renewable energy. Let's turn to a man who was never
:17:59. > :18:03.knowingly over heard, I am talking about Boris Johnson. When he is on
:18:03. > :18:08.the front page of the newspapers, that is because he wants to be, and
:18:08. > :18:13.he has done it again. He will love the fact the mayor of London is on
:18:13. > :18:17.the front page of the Sunday Telegraph. The editor has got an
:18:17. > :18:21.interview with the mayor. William Hague once described the whole
:18:21. > :18:26.issue of Europe as unexploded bomb at the heart of the Conservative
:18:26. > :18:30.Party, and the best thing to do was to stop talking about the issue of
:18:30. > :18:37.Europe. If the Conservative Party went back to this unexploded bomb,
:18:37. > :18:41.it would cause a massive problem. We have Boris saying two of the key
:18:41. > :18:46.policies David Cameron house on Europe, which is the Germans should
:18:46. > :18:50.be using their reserves, and we need a fiscal union, he is saying
:18:50. > :18:57.both of those are wrong. This so- called Big bazooka is a disaster.
:18:57. > :19:00.He never misses an opportunity. There is a lot of difference
:19:01. > :19:05.between the mayor and the Prime Minister, but most of the
:19:05. > :19:11.Conservative press and probably most voters at large are probably
:19:11. > :19:17.on Boris Johnson's side on this issue. As usual, we have got Ken in
:19:17. > :19:22.the corner frothing. It is weird the Labour Party has become the
:19:22. > :19:29.European party. You get all the newspapers, the right-wing
:19:29. > :19:34.newspapers, writing amazing stuff about Europe. Devastatingly and
:19:34. > :19:38.often deeply inaccurate stuff which people believe, but nobody, you
:19:38. > :19:43.never hear the other side. The two is the right-wing papers that have
:19:43. > :19:48.been vindicated over the years. They are the ones that said the
:19:48. > :19:58.euro would not work. That is a judgment I am not making, but it's
:19:58. > :19:58.
:19:58. > :20:05.interesting that if you so -- support Europe, you have lost the
:20:05. > :20:10.inability to speak about it. have on the front page of the News
:20:10. > :20:16.Review Margaret, she is back. Lady Is Back, the lady is not for
:20:16. > :20:21.watching. We have it on the front of the News Review, which is more
:20:21. > :20:28.of a review of Meryl Streep's performance, which will be
:20:28. > :20:36.astonishing. In fact, almost anyone can play Margaret Thatcher, with
:20:36. > :20:42.respect to Meryl Streep. It was the woman week all loved to hate.
:20:42. > :20:49.you do the voice? It is a bitter early. Keep you in your place, we
:20:49. > :20:53.are reviewing the papers! Very good. The film begins with her dementia,
:20:53. > :21:01.shuffling along to the corner shop. Not to judge the film, I think it
:21:01. > :21:05.will make even me sorry for Margaret Thatcher. Some reviews
:21:05. > :21:10.have said, from a Conservative point of view, it is a good film,
:21:10. > :21:14.and from the left people are saying this is terrible. It is funny
:21:14. > :21:24.because there is another film about the Burmese leader which has that
:21:24. > :21:25.
:21:25. > :21:31.controversy about it. Is their way out for David Cameron on this? He
:21:31. > :21:35.has Germany going for a deeper, stronger union, and he is back with
:21:35. > :21:41.Conservative MPs saying this is our opportunity to have a referendum.
:21:41. > :21:44.It is a devil in a deep blue sea choice for him. When he had the
:21:44. > :21:49.difficult vote in the House of Commons recently, when 81 of his
:21:49. > :21:54.own MPs rebelled, he made dramatic promises during the debate to try
:21:54. > :22:00.to stem the rebel. In that when the opportunity came, he would seek
:22:00. > :22:04.fundamental reform. Now that opportunity is coming, Angela
:22:04. > :22:08.Merkel and Nick Clegg don't want it. He has got to choose between his
:22:08. > :22:14.party and his coalition partners, and that is a very awkward choice
:22:14. > :22:19.for him. I don't know how he will resolve it. Once he gives the news
:22:19. > :22:24.to the party, he will have another revolt on his hands. I think he
:22:24. > :22:30.wants to kick it into the long grass, but the long grass doesn't
:22:30. > :22:37.look very long any more. Another story, John. I find this a bit
:22:37. > :22:44.disturbing. It is a story about an Asian journalist, who is being
:22:44. > :22:48.abused on Twitter. It is not a major story, but it is just a
:22:48. > :22:53.rather depressing one. It is an account of how she told the police
:22:53. > :22:58.about it, the Metropolitan Police, and they were clearly not the
:22:58. > :23:04.slightest bit interested. They only seem to be interested in
:23:04. > :23:08.footballers and people with well- known names and backgrounds. I just
:23:09. > :23:14.find that so depressing. There is an awful lot about how the
:23:14. > :23:19.Metropolitan Police has been run, perhaps won't be in future, which
:23:19. > :23:26.seems to cause problems in our country, not least in policing the
:23:26. > :23:29.rioting. But nevertheless, this kind of thing, PC plod on the other
:23:29. > :23:37.end says if you continue to talk like this I shall put the phone
:23:37. > :23:40.down. That seems to be the standard response. It is quite frightening.
:23:41. > :23:43.If it happened to you or maybe even to me, the police might do
:23:43. > :23:48.something about it, but if it happens to someone else, not
:23:48. > :23:56.necessarily. A lot of things we have not had time to talk about,
:23:56. > :24:00.but for now thank you. Thick fog as I drove in the earlier
:24:00. > :24:04.on, so let's find out what the rest of the day holds across the country.
:24:04. > :24:08.A have got the most extensive mist A have got the most extensive mist
:24:08. > :24:14.and fog of the autumn so far, mainly affecting England and Wales.
:24:14. > :24:19.It will take some time to clear away. The thickest fog is in
:24:19. > :24:26.eastern England. The temperatures are really cold, but further west
:24:26. > :24:33.we have got more cloud and it is milder, 10 degrees in Glasgow. Some
:24:33. > :24:40.rain coming into Scotland. England and Wales, misty and foggy to begin
:24:40. > :24:48.with. It could stay grey and gloomy all day across East Wales, the
:24:48. > :24:51.Midlands, part of northern England. The mist and fog thickens through
:24:51. > :24:57.the Midlands and eastern England through tonight, and that is where
:24:57. > :25:05.it will be cold again. Further west, the cloud thickens, and we will see
:25:05. > :25:10.patchy rain arriving. Further east, it is likely to be dry, the mist
:25:10. > :25:15.and fog lifting through the morning. It will stay cloudy and grey, and
:25:15. > :25:24.though some pictures will struggle in the eastern areas. Further west,
:25:24. > :25:29.12-14 degrees, above-average for Ken Livingstone was once -- once
:25:29. > :25:32.dubbed the most odious man in Britain by the Sun, so it must have
:25:32. > :25:37.been a badge of honour for him. Few public figures have been so reviled
:25:37. > :25:42.by the press but still hit a popular chord. Even the victor in
:25:42. > :25:46.the last London mayoral election, Boris Johnson, praised his
:25:46. > :25:49.achievements. Old adversaries will be up against each other in next
:25:49. > :25:56.year's race for the City Hall, but in the meantime Ken Livingstone has
:25:56. > :25:59.been hard at work on his memoirs. One thing that will surprise people
:25:59. > :26:04.is that you came from a conservative background, family
:26:04. > :26:09.wise. About a third of working- class families are Tories, we have
:26:09. > :26:17.always known that. I was the first person in my family ever to vote
:26:17. > :26:26.Labour. My grandmother, who was very proud at the time, my mother
:26:26. > :26:29.said I was not allowed to tell her, it might finish her off. My parents
:26:29. > :26:35.wouldn't even Bali a television when there was only the BBC and it
:26:35. > :26:40.was state television, they waited until ITV came along. So was your
:26:40. > :26:45.conversion to the left a reaction against your family? Not really. I
:26:45. > :26:50.was in my late teens as the government of Harold Macmillan was
:26:51. > :26:55.disintegrating, the sex scandals, the recession. Everybody was
:26:55. > :27:00.falling in love with Harold Wilson, the Tony Blair of his day.
:27:00. > :27:05.Initially, I just moved from the Tory background to be in a
:27:05. > :27:11.traditional Labour one. I only moved to the left once I saw Wilson
:27:11. > :27:14.quite miserably failed to deliver. Interesting you didn't join any of
:27:14. > :27:20.the revolutionary groups that were so popular, the Communist groups
:27:20. > :27:25.and so on, you went into the Labour Party - why was that? I am a
:27:25. > :27:29.pragmatic person. I look at what works, I am interested in changes
:27:29. > :27:36.you can make. I am not really interested in what an ideal world
:27:36. > :27:41.would be like, I am more interested in how we can cut fares next year.
:27:41. > :27:45.That makes the change to people's lives. I didn't think the Utopia
:27:45. > :27:51.would happen. And you weren't impressed by the student protests
:27:51. > :27:56.of the time? They were against the war in Vietnam and I felt angry
:27:56. > :28:00.against that, but I was not a student, I dropped out of school. I
:28:00. > :28:04.always thought I would spend a lifetime working at London's rule
:28:04. > :28:10.or something like that. What is your perspective on the anti-
:28:10. > :28:19.capitalist protest going on at the moment? They don't seem to have an
:28:19. > :28:24.agenda. No, of course lefties in the past read the works of Marx,
:28:24. > :28:34.this is much more spasm anger. I think they are right to be angry.
:28:34. > :28:36.
:28:36. > :28:42.We saw the FT-SE 100 companies, the top 100, who had a 49% increase on
:28:42. > :28:46.average for the bosses. There is a deep on Furnace and it has got
:28:46. > :28:50.worse over the last 30 years. Inequality has doubled in Britain.
:28:50. > :28:55.I grew up in a world where we assumed we would continue to get
:28:55. > :29:00.more equal. But there isn't a programme, an agenda. Nobody seems
:29:00. > :29:04.to have an answer. If you listen to Ed Balls and Ed Miliband, there was
:29:04. > :29:08.a clear answer developing about the big public works programmes, and
:29:08. > :29:12.rumours in the press over the last few days that even David Cameron
:29:12. > :29:16.may have been persuaded by the Liberals to start building
:29:16. > :29:20.affordable housing again. The government is now recognising the
:29:20. > :29:26.strategy they started out with, you can cut your way back to growth, it
:29:26. > :29:30.hasn't worked. It will never be characterised as Edward Heath's big
:29:30. > :29:36.U-turn but they can't go on like this. Are you disappointed by the
:29:36. > :29:41.way the Miliband brothers have turned out? They were always
:29:41. > :29:46.portrayed as almost one on each knee, and now look at them, one is
:29:46. > :29:49.New Labour and one is highly pragmatic. I sat with their parents
:29:49. > :29:54.talking about an English Revolution, they decided we were being too
:29:54. > :29:58.optimistic. I worked very closely with Ed Miliband and we share the
:29:58. > :30:04.same agenda. When he spoke about the difference between predatory
:30:04. > :30:11.and productive capitalism, we need to invest more in manufacturing.
:30:11. > :30:15.When I left school, every boy in my school left school and got a job.
:30:15. > :30:20.Germany has kept that, they still have good jobs for working-class
:30:20. > :30:24.people. We have seen those jobs wiped out, and a lot of what David
:30:24. > :30:27.Cameron talks about a broken society, he doesn't understand it
:30:28. > :30:32.is the real fact that unless you have a university degree, you are
:30:32. > :30:37.left behind. During the paper review, we have heard Maureen
:30:37. > :30:42.Lipman doing a good Margaret Thatcher impersonation, talking
:30:42. > :30:45.about the new Meryl Streep film. But what did you make of her? You
:30:45. > :30:55.seem to get on better with ideological people on the right
:30:55. > :31:01.
:31:01. > :31:04.I think Thatcher was a remarkable person. She pushed the old toffs
:31:04. > :31:08.aside and changed the face of Britain, very much for the worse I
:31:08. > :31:11.think, much like Reagan in America. Therefore I respect the fact she
:31:11. > :31:15.believed something, was prepared to risk her career to achieve it, but
:31:15. > :31:19.tragically, it turned out to be a disaster.
:31:19. > :31:23.What about your relationships with the Labour leaders, because you
:31:23. > :31:27.didn't get on well with Tony Blair, but that was as nothing to the not
:31:27. > :31:37.getting on wellness of your relationship with Gordon Brown?!
:31:37. > :31:37.
:31:37. > :32:27.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 49 seconds
:32:27. > :32:31.Isn't the truth that he watched how you behaved. You were the maverick,
:32:31. > :32:34.very fun yirbgs not getting on terribly well with the national
:32:34. > :32:39.leadership at the time. People quite enjoyed you as a character
:32:39. > :32:42.and she just did that better, his jokes were better? I don't deny for
:32:42. > :32:45.one minute, I would never Miss Boris Johnson on Have I Got News
:32:45. > :32:53.For You, I've sometimes almost fallen off the chair laughing, he
:32:53. > :32:58.tells better jokes than me. The polling is interesting, he beats me
:32:58. > :33:06.on some things and I beat him on some things. Do you want somebody
:33:06. > :33:16.who maybes you laugh or someone who restores the cuts in policing.
:33:16. > :33:16.
:33:16. > :36:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 49 seconds
:36:07. > :36:11.Marilyn Monroe, the greatest movie star in the world, to work with Sir
:36:11. > :36:16.Laurence Olivier, the world's greatest actor. It should have gone
:36:16. > :36:20.splendidly. It was her production company, Olivier was thrilled to
:36:20. > :36:26.work with someone who would associate him with the new and
:36:26. > :36:30.exciting, and they went like that. She would go missing for days at a
:36:30. > :36:34.time, which completely threw him, and it turned into a nightmare for
:36:34. > :36:44.him. This young man with the ringside seat has a sort of
:36:44. > :36:49.relationship with her. Indeed. One of the things that had a whiff of
:36:49. > :36:53.for authenticity was that they go for who basically fetched the tea,
:36:53. > :36:58.how could they possibly be witness to these confessional moments, it
:36:58. > :37:02.is partly because they are 23, and to people preoccupied with these
:37:02. > :37:06.intense jobs, they simply ignore them and don't count them as human
:37:06. > :37:12.beings. They suddenly find themselves saying things in front
:37:12. > :37:22.of them that might be indiscreet. Michelle Williams is a stunning
:37:22. > :37:24.
:37:24. > :37:34.Marilyn. I am glad you think so, Let's just stop and have a look at
:37:34. > :37:36.
:37:36. > :37:40.her. # We are having a heatwave # A tropical heatwave... #
:37:40. > :37:45.You can see the attraction there! Yes.
:37:45. > :37:48.You are playing a kind of game with the audience here because you are
:37:48. > :37:53.saying, you were somebody, often associated with Olivier, I think
:37:53. > :37:58.you wrote to him at one point? did when I was 19, asked for his
:37:58. > :38:03.advice about playing a part that I was 45 years too young for at that
:38:03. > :38:10.part but that he played for in a film and his advice was "have a
:38:10. > :38:15.bash and hope for the best". you are playing him when he's
:38:15. > :38:19.wanting this new career? Yes. have got a very successful
:38:19. > :38:22.directing career yourself and he wants a bit of the association of
:38:22. > :38:27.Marilyn and you have the association, there's a sort of game
:38:27. > :38:30.going on in a way, isn't there? What I thought when I read it and
:38:30. > :38:32.felt as though this miniature picture of Olivier, which is
:38:32. > :38:37.basically about Marilyn and this extraordinary moment she has with
:38:37. > :38:41.this young man, but it's the backbone which is the job and the
:38:41. > :38:45.association with Olivier. The picture of his midlife crisis is
:38:45. > :38:49.very well drawn in lots of ways. But he was unquestionably fun to
:38:49. > :38:54.think, gosh, so I'm an actor playing an actor who's playing an
:38:54. > :38:59.ock for who's a direct director in a film that he's directing and he's
:38:59. > :39:03.directed films I'm in. So there are onion layers unpeeling that I think
:39:03. > :39:08.helps give the film a certain kind of difference.
:39:08. > :39:13.He was a very frustrated figure at that point. You don't look terribly
:39:13. > :39:17.like him, but you have the astonishing voice. It's astonishing
:39:17. > :39:22.how different English voices were in the '50s? We were just coming
:39:22. > :39:30.out of the world of people arriving saying "cigarette thanks", like
:39:30. > :39:36.that lovely line in Brief Encounter when the woman says are you cold
:39:36. > :39:41.and he says no, are you happy, no very and that world of clipped
:39:41. > :39:44.voices is Olivier and Vivienne Lee who presided over minor Royalty at
:39:44. > :39:54.the British acting family. His voice I listened to every morning
:39:54. > :39:59.as they put on a prosthetic chin which gave me the beautiful square
:39:59. > :40:04.chin. He does a dramatic reading of the Bible, a dramatic vocal
:40:04. > :40:10.performance. That's how you got into it? Listening to him every day,
:40:10. > :40:13.yes. All the films you have directed, Thaw was a vast success
:40:13. > :40:19.which has given you presumably a lot more heft in that world of what
:40:19. > :40:22.you want to do next? Yes, is the answer, and I'm very grateful for
:40:22. > :40:26.that. It was two-and-a-half years of working on something on a scale
:40:27. > :40:29.that I'd never been used to with visual effects and technology at my
:40:30. > :40:35.finger tips with lots of extremely skilful people helping me to know
:40:35. > :40:40.how to use them. But to be able to make a picture that potentially
:40:40. > :40:45.opens and a lot of people see it, it's a thrill where you often make
:40:45. > :40:49.films when that's not the case. Wallender - last night we had the
:40:49. > :40:56.second episode of The Killing starting on British television.
:40:56. > :41:01.There's something in the water that people really go for depressed
:41:01. > :41:04.Scandinavians, aren't they? Well, I think that somehow our impression
:41:04. > :41:08.of what Scandinavia may create in people, which in our case in
:41:08. > :41:12.southern Sweden involves the flatlands that allow vast areas of
:41:12. > :41:16.landscape to disappear behind us and encourage you to think big
:41:16. > :41:19.thoughts. It allows for people to be quite preoccupied with bigger
:41:19. > :41:24.questions, of their own lives, and of life in general, the Swedes in
:41:24. > :41:28.my experience tend to do this. We seem vo cariously to enjoy that. If
:41:28. > :41:32.we, as a national characteristic tend to be rather contained and
:41:32. > :41:36.concerned about being embarrassed by it, the Swedes are not
:41:36. > :41:38.embarrassed by emotionalism, certainly not by talking largely
:41:38. > :41:42.philosophically and, through the medium of a detective story, there
:41:42. > :41:48.seems to be some way in which that's being expressed that we are
:41:48. > :41:54.drawn to. Let's see a clip of Wallender for those who don't now.
:41:54. > :41:59.The one with Albert Finney on the track? No, that's definitely Murder
:41:59. > :42:04.on the Express. Just concentrate, for God's sake. People are dying,
:42:04. > :42:10.doesn't anybody get that. People are dead! You are making another
:42:10. > :42:14.series at the moment of that? Indeed. Right at the end of the
:42:14. > :42:19.filming about Marilyn, Olivier is off to a strange little theatre,
:42:19. > :42:25.The Royal Court. That's right. Which Miller and Marilyn take him
:42:25. > :42:29.to. He's then going to play The Entertainer? Yes. A very important
:42:29. > :42:34.moment in British theatre history. Absolutely. The obvious question is
:42:34. > :42:41.whether you've got a theatre production, whether you're going to
:42:41. > :42:46.do the threeter? Well, I just appeared at the New Lyric Theatre
:42:46. > :42:51.in Belfast, my home town, with Rob Brydon, we had a great time and we
:42:51. > :42:54.hope to bring that into town in the next 12 months, so that's the next
:42:54. > :42:58.adventure. You are shooting off to film, so thank you very much indeed
:42:58. > :43:02.for coming in and joining us. Thank you. Thank you. So to the great
:43:02. > :43:06.dilemma over pensions. And the huge strike which seems to be coming at
:43:06. > :43:10.the end of the month is the biggest one-day protest for many years. The
:43:10. > :43:14.minister at the heart of the talks is Francis Maude, whose revised
:43:14. > :43:18.offer to the unions has been rejected and is under pressure to
:43:18. > :43:24.some colleagues to look at the laws governing strikes again. Welcome.
:43:24. > :43:27.Good morning. Can I start by asking whether this is an on the table
:43:28. > :43:33.offer, take it or leave it, and if the strike goes ahead, whether the
:43:33. > :43:36.offer to the unions will be withdrawn.? It's certainly not take
:43:37. > :43:40.it or leave it because there's a lot of detail to be sorted out. We
:43:40. > :43:44.have discussions going on in four different schemes, and there's a
:43:44. > :43:48.lot to be sorted out. We have said that the basics of this deal, which
:43:49. > :43:52.is a very generous offer actually, at the end of all this, the pension
:43:52. > :43:56.schemes for public sector workers have access to will be better than
:43:56. > :44:01.anything most people in the private sector can dream of. These are
:44:01. > :44:05.guaranteed pension levels which are inflation proved, index linked and
:44:05. > :44:08.people will know what they are going to get. For most people in
:44:08. > :44:12.the public sector, particularly people on lower and middle incomes,
:44:12. > :44:16.they are going to be able to retire on a pension which is at least as
:44:16. > :44:19.good as they expect at the moment, in many cases better. Doesn't sound
:44:19. > :44:23.to me like you think there's much room for further moves on the
:44:23. > :44:27.Government's part? No, we said this is as good as it gets, but there's
:44:27. > :44:30.still a lot to discuss. We want to make sure that the way this is
:44:31. > :44:34.configured meets the concerns. We want particularly to protect lower
:44:34. > :44:37.paid people, we don't want people to opt out of the schemes, we want
:44:37. > :44:43.lower paid people to have better pensions, not worse. We want them
:44:43. > :44:46.to be fair sore they're based on average earnings during your career,
:44:46. > :44:50.not on final salary which very much favours senior people who do well
:44:50. > :44:54.out of this at the expense frankly of lower paid people. So there's a
:44:54. > :44:59.great deal still to be sorted out and we want urgently to get on with
:44:59. > :45:03.it. If this goes ahead, it's only one day at the moment, but it will
:45:03. > :45:07.be grim and dramatic? We don't know what the extent of it will be.
:45:07. > :45:10.There have been a lot of ballots, they've all come out with yes votes
:45:10. > :45:15.and that wasn't particularly surprising, but I think it's really
:45:15. > :45:19.significant that particularly the big e unions, the tournouts has
:45:19. > :45:23.been extraordinarily low -- turnout. In the case of UNISON, it was only
:45:23. > :45:26.just over a quarter of the members balloted actually voted. So when
:45:26. > :45:30.the union leaders sit with us and say this is the most important
:45:30. > :45:34.thing in a general raceration for their members and I don't at all
:45:34. > :45:40.underestimate how much people care about this and they are right to do
:45:40. > :45:43.so, actually for people and the unions to say this is unbelievably
:45:43. > :45:49.passionate matters for most members is incorrect. The member force the
:45:49. > :45:55.most part haven't voted. Given that, are you going to look again at the
:45:55. > :45:59.legislation and put in some kind of minimum level of turnout or total
:45:59. > :46:04.turnout before a strike is called, people have said 40% of the people
:46:04. > :46:14.in a union have to vote for a strike or maybe it should be 50 or
:46:14. > :46:15.
:46:15. > :46:20.We keep these things under review. So you are not looking at bringing
:46:20. > :46:25.in a new threshold? We keep it under review, but a powerful case
:46:25. > :46:30.for change has been made. I have made the point to the union leaders
:46:30. > :46:34.that if they do call-out their members on strike, at a time of
:46:34. > :46:38.fragility for our economy, where are widespread disruptive strike
:46:38. > :46:44.would cause widespread damage, potentially, to our economy, with a
:46:44. > :46:50.lot of people losing their jobs. People who don't have access to
:46:50. > :46:54.pensions anywhere near as good as public sector workers will still
:46:54. > :46:59.have at the end of this, the case for new laws will become pressing.
:46:59. > :47:03.He sounds like you have got to stick, but at the moment it is
:47:03. > :47:07.locked up in the cupboard under the stairs. We are not jumping the gun,
:47:07. > :47:12.we want this to work. My concern with the union leaders is that they
:47:12. > :47:16.have jumped the gun. It is inappropriate and irresponsible to
:47:16. > :47:21.have balloted their members on strike action when the discussions
:47:21. > :47:25.are still going on, as Chris Keates was saying earlier. It is quite
:47:25. > :47:29.wrong to call-out on strike people who have the ability to inflict
:47:29. > :47:33.damage on the economy and on other people's lives and jobs when we
:47:33. > :47:37.still have the real prospect of reaching agreement. The offer we
:47:37. > :47:45.have put on the table is conditional on the unions agreeing
:47:45. > :47:49.overall the outcome, the new scheme. He if they go ahead with the strike,
:47:49. > :47:53.does the offer come off the table? At the Louvre, it is in our power
:47:53. > :47:58.to do that. It is not an unconditional offer and we have the
:47:58. > :48:02.ability to withdraw it and impose something that will still meet our
:48:03. > :48:07.concerns of protecting lower-paid people, of being fairer, of giving
:48:07. > :48:11.public sector staff good pension schemes, but actually we do want
:48:11. > :48:17.there to be real engagement now. The unions should not have jumped
:48:17. > :48:22.the gun, we now need to try to get the storm. So you may impose a deal.
:48:22. > :48:28.The end of the year is pretty much the deadline? We need to get the
:48:28. > :48:33.basics sorted out by then, that is crucial. It does sound as if we are
:48:33. > :48:36.going to go through a tough period in industrial relations, this is
:48:36. > :48:42.only the beginning. One can understand why people are so
:48:42. > :48:46.worried, they have had pay freezes, inflation is high. We have been
:48:46. > :48:55.through a very tough period, we are now going through a public sector
:48:55. > :49:00.recession. If we are going to go through a winter and spring of
:49:00. > :49:04.discontent and large-scale public sector industrial action, is this
:49:04. > :49:09.Government's tough enough to see that off? I don't sense any
:49:09. > :49:14.appetite among most of the union leaders to go in for protracted,
:49:14. > :49:17.prolonged industrial action. There is a sense in which they need to do
:49:17. > :49:23.something on November 30th. There is a quirk in the law that says
:49:23. > :49:27.that once you have got a ballot mandate, you have to use it within
:49:27. > :49:32.28 days. But there are ways of doing that which tick the box that
:49:32. > :49:36.we have done something, we have kept the ballot mandate open, but
:49:36. > :49:40.which doesn't inflict damage on the economy. Some of these schemes can
:49:40. > :49:43.we have got so close to agreement, that there is a real prospect of
:49:43. > :49:50.doing this by the end of the year without damaging the economy and
:49:50. > :49:56.people's lives. People who have no prospect of enjoying pensions that
:49:56. > :50:03.public sector staff will continue to enjoy. You are coming forward
:50:03. > :50:06.with the scheme for new businesses who often feel frozen out of the
:50:06. > :50:11.government procurement. We have looked carefully at how we do
:50:11. > :50:15.procurement. The public sector has bends age huge amount of money in
:50:15. > :50:21.buying in goods and services from outside, something like �230
:50:21. > :50:25.billion the year, and we don't do it very well, frankly. We follow
:50:25. > :50:32.the European law extremely literally, we have very big
:50:32. > :50:36.contracts, and we get the worst of both worlds at the moment. We
:50:36. > :50:40.exclude a lot of innovative suppliers who are UK-based, so
:50:40. > :50:44.neither do we get good value for the taxpayer, neither do we spend
:50:44. > :50:48.the money particularly well, neither do we support UK businesses.
:50:49. > :50:55.France and Germany, who are not protectionist in this respect, are
:50:55. > :50:59.much better at doing this so we are drawing from their experience.
:50:59. > :51:03.of the key promises the Conservatives made at the time of
:51:03. > :51:07.the election and the coalition agreement was that the NHS would be
:51:07. > :51:13.protected. The Royal College of Nursing is now saying that tens of
:51:13. > :51:18.thousands of jobs, more jobs, will have to go and that these will
:51:18. > :51:24.involve frontline jobs. They will involve nurses. We hope that won't
:51:24. > :51:29.be the case. We have guaranteed the NHS budget will grow in real terms.
:51:29. > :51:33.Labour didn't agree that, they would have cut NHS spending, and so
:51:33. > :51:37.we are committed to protecting the Budget, but there are demands on
:51:37. > :51:42.the NHS which means efficiency savings have to be made and they
:51:42. > :51:48.need to be made not at the front line so far as possible. When you
:51:48. > :51:53.say you hope that is not so, are you saying we won't see 50,000
:51:53. > :52:00.frontline jobs go or not? That seems fanciful to me. We have
:52:00. > :52:06.already taken out a number of managerial jobs which double the
:52:06. > :52:09.amount of jobs under Labour. We have cut those numbers and the
:52:09. > :52:14.numbers of doctors is increasing. We want to take money out of the
:52:14. > :52:19.back end, as it were, and put it into the front line because the
:52:19. > :52:24.public are expecting good medical care. Plenty more to talk about,
:52:24. > :52:27.but for now thank you. Now, the news headlines.
:52:27. > :52:33.Libya's new rulers have insisted Saif Al-Islam will receive a fair
:52:33. > :52:38.trial following his capture, as he tried to flee to Niger. Saif Al-
:52:38. > :52:42.Islam was detained in the Libyan desert on Friday night and was
:52:42. > :52:47.wanted by the International Criminal Court on charges of crimes
:52:47. > :52:52.against humanity. The prosecutor will travel to Libya to discuss
:52:52. > :52:55.where the trial should take place. Francis Maude has today warned
:52:55. > :53:00.public-sector workers that the deal currently on the table is as good
:53:00. > :53:04.as it gets ahead of next week's planned strike. He said trade
:53:04. > :53:09.unions have jumped the gun in calling for the strike while talks
:53:09. > :53:12.are still going on. He said under the deal on the table, public
:53:12. > :53:18.sector workers would still have pensions that private sector
:53:18. > :53:21.workers could only dream of. Back to Andrew in a moment, but first a
:53:21. > :53:30.look at what is coming up after this programme.
:53:30. > :53:35.Today, are we too sensitive about racism or should week show a zero
:53:35. > :53:40.tolerance? Single women using IVF on the NHS - a right or a mockery
:53:40. > :53:44.of free health care? And William Roache tells us why reincarnation
:53:44. > :53:48.is one repeat we should all tune in for.
:53:48. > :53:52.Francis Maude is still with me, and Tim Montgomery is back again. Tim,
:53:52. > :53:58.you spend a lot of your time listening to the views of
:53:58. > :54:05.Conservative activists, what is the big message on Europe? I think the
:54:05. > :54:07.message from activists is that certainly the opportunity for a
:54:07. > :54:14.renegotiation of Britain's relationship with Europe doesn't
:54:14. > :54:21.come very often, and it looks like Germans desire for a stronger
:54:21. > :54:25.fiscal Europe is about to come. The vast bulk of Tory members, more
:54:25. > :54:29.importantly people in the country, hope we will take this once in a
:54:29. > :54:34.generation opportunity to get back some of those powers that stop us
:54:34. > :54:38.from being able to control of borders. It is too early to tell
:54:38. > :54:42.what can happen. We don't know what kind of treaty change there will be,
:54:42. > :54:47.whether we will be limited to the eurozone countries, whether it will
:54:47. > :54:51.be more wide-ranging than that. don't want there to be a referendum,
:54:51. > :54:56.do you? You rather hope it will be limited and this will push off
:54:56. > :55:00.again. We are not going to agree any changes that give more powers
:55:00. > :55:04.to Brussels and our commitment is that there will be a referendum if
:55:04. > :55:12.there were any proposal that Britain should give more powers to
:55:12. > :55:16.Brussels. That is a commitment we have put into law, but the extent
:55:16. > :55:20.of there being a widespread change to the treaty which gives leverage
:55:20. > :55:28.to reopen the whole lot of things, we don't know if that will be a
:55:28. > :55:33.possibility. The folk singer Sandy Denny recorded a string of tracks
:55:33. > :55:40.in the late 60s and early 70s with the Fairport Convention and solo,
:55:40. > :55:45.but she died tragically young in 1978.
:55:45. > :55:48.I comic songs like who knows where the time goes were hits, but years
:55:48. > :55:53.after her death and number of lyrics were found that she had
:55:53. > :56:03.written down but never recorded. Now Thea Gilmour has recorded some
:56:03. > :56:07.of these lost songs, blending the lyrics with her own striking music.
:56:08. > :56:12.Welcome. This is an extraordinary story because literally there were
:56:12. > :56:16.old bits of paper and lyrics written by Sandy Denny that were
:56:16. > :56:21.discovered again. The that's right. Her estate sent me a selection of
:56:21. > :56:26.lyrics they had found, some very recently, some are good few years
:56:26. > :56:33.earlier and asked me if I wanted to write music to it. I wanted to make
:56:33. > :56:38.sure I could write good songs because it could have been a
:56:39. > :56:43.tribute album. A does your music refer to the Sandy Denny style? Yes,
:56:43. > :56:46.but there is a lot of myself in there as well because I always
:56:46. > :56:52.wanted it to be a true collaboration and not a tribute
:56:52. > :56:56.album. That is all we have got time for today. Next week I will be
:56:56. > :57:00.talking to the Chancellor, George Osborne, and the shadow chancellor,
:57:00. > :57:06.Ed Balls, and we will have a rare interview with that great actress
:57:06. > :57:16.Rachel Weisz. Until then, we will leave you with Thea Gilmour and
:57:16. > :57:17.
:57:17. > :57:27.Don't Stop Singing. # It's so late, it's tomorrow.
:57:27. > :57:29.
:57:29. > :57:37.# There is nothing doing in my mind. # It's the first day that is so
:57:37. > :57:47.hard. # So don't stop singing.
:57:47. > :57:50.
:57:50. > :57:53.# No, don't stop singing. # Don't stop singing until you drop.
:57:53. > :57:59.# The central heating pipes are banning.
:57:59. > :58:07.# I keep thinking it is the car. # But if I keep up with my singing,
:58:07. > :58:14.I won't be wondering where you are. # I won't be wondering where you
:58:14. > :58:24.are. # So don't stop singing.
:58:24. > :58:34.# Don't stop singing. # Don't stop singing on till you
:58:34. > :58:39.
:58:39. > :58:49.drop. # Don't stop singing.
:58:49. > :58:49.
:58:49. > :58:58.# Don't stop singing, don't stop singing until you drop.