0:00:30 > 0:00:35Good morning. Tough times for the Government ahead, as for the
0:00:35 > 0:00:38country, so very important to hear some support of comments, which
0:00:38 > 0:00:44takes us straight to the former Defence Secretary, Liam Fox, quoted
0:00:44 > 0:00:48today saying an M3 friend told me they knew I was sorry to leave the
0:00:48 > 0:00:51Cabot -- an MP friend told me they knew I was sorry to leave the
0:00:51 > 0:00:56Cabinet but some people who did not trouble on the Titanic were sad to
0:00:56 > 0:01:00be left behind. I am joined by the Sun columnist Jane Moore and
0:01:01 > 0:01:04Jonathan Powell who was Tony Blair's cheaper staff through those
0:01:04 > 0:01:14too much as Downing Street years. Europe's debt crisis looms large in
0:01:14 > 0:01:15
0:01:16 > 0:01:25those papers. -- those to mulches Downing Street years. The Deputy
0:01:26 > 0:01:26
0:01:26 > 0:01:29Prime Minister Nick Clegg is here to talk about the euro debt crisis.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33What would Yvette Cooper's party be doing to help the economic
0:01:33 > 0:01:37recovery? I will also be talking to her about policing.
0:01:37 > 0:01:42Martin Scorsese will be talking to me about his new family film and
0:01:42 > 0:01:46why, after 40 years at the top, he thinks 3D cinema is the next big
0:01:46 > 0:01:51thing. And for everybody short of a bob or
0:01:51 > 0:01:59two, a modern protest song from the Californian singer-songwriter Aloe
0:01:59 > 0:02:04Blacc. A busy hour ahead. First, the news
0:02:04 > 0:02:07with Louise Minchin. Good morning. The former Labour
0:02:07 > 0:02:12Cabinet minister who reviewed public sector pensions for the
0:02:12 > 0:02:16commission has called for even more radical reforms because of the
0:02:16 > 0:02:20worsening economic outlook. Lord Hutton told Radio 4 that keeping
0:02:20 > 0:02:23the system affordable would be even harder now that the growth
0:02:23 > 0:02:27forecasts for the UK has been downgraded.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31Last week thousands of public sector workers took to the streets,
0:02:32 > 0:02:37angry about the Government's pension reforms. The Government
0:02:37 > 0:02:42insists that the present system is not affordable. The unions argue
0:02:42 > 0:02:46that the planned changes are unfair. Today, the Labour politician whose
0:02:46 > 0:02:49ideas are at the heart of the plans has told the BBC that it is a
0:02:49 > 0:02:54generous deal that will protect workers close to retirement. He
0:02:54 > 0:02:58agreed with the warnings from some unions that the Government's
0:02:58 > 0:03:02proposals could force large numbers of people on low or moderate in
0:03:02 > 0:03:07comes to opt out of their pensions altogether. Lord Hutton also
0:03:08 > 0:03:14expresses deeper uncertainty about the future. He says his own cess --
0:03:14 > 0:03:17assessment about long-term sustainability were optimistic.
0:03:17 > 0:03:21forecast has changed radically in the wrong direction. We cannot be
0:03:21 > 0:03:26sure that the costs will fall over time and that we will get to a
0:03:26 > 0:03:30sustainable balance. The unions are set to continue their negotiations
0:03:30 > 0:03:36with the Government over the details. Lord Hutton says that
0:03:36 > 0:03:38reforms to pensions should take place as soon as possible.
0:03:38 > 0:03:43Patients upon to be confidential medical records could be shared
0:03:43 > 0:03:47with drug companies under plans to be unveiled by David Cameron
0:03:47 > 0:03:51tomorrow. The Prime Minister says that closer collaboration could
0:03:51 > 0:03:56help the NHS target new drugs and save money. It is expected that the
0:03:56 > 0:03:59plans will encounter strong opposition from privacy campaigners.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03The Government insists that all necessary safeguards will be used
0:04:03 > 0:04:06to protect personal details. The Russians are voting in
0:04:06 > 0:04:11parliamentary elections which are expected to result in Vladimir
0:04:11 > 0:04:16Putin's party being returned to power. Independent monitors have
0:04:16 > 0:04:19complained of harassment and vote- rigging. Victory by Mr Putin's
0:04:19 > 0:04:23party will pave the way for him to return as president in elections
0:04:23 > 0:04:27next March. 45,000 Germans in the city of
0:04:27 > 0:04:35Koblenz are leaving their homes today so that experts can defuse an
0:04:36 > 0:04:43RAF bomb dropped during the Second World War. The two-ton device was
0:04:43 > 0:04:47found in the River Rhine last week after a drop in water levels.
0:04:47 > 0:04:51Two giant pandas from China will arrive in Scotland today it --
0:04:51 > 0:04:55today to begin a new life at Edinburgh Zoo. The eight-year-old
0:04:55 > 0:05:00pair, known as Sweetie and Sweetie, are on loan to the zoo and will go
0:05:00 > 0:05:10on show to the public after they have settled into their specially
0:05:10 > 0:05:14
0:05:14 > 0:05:18designed Enclosure. -- Sweetie and The Mail on Sunday's splash is that
0:05:18 > 0:05:23horsemen are being told that if they take tips of more than �30
0:05:24 > 0:05:27they could be jailed for bribery. Seems a bit strange to me.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30Both the Observer and the Independent on Sunday are
0:05:31 > 0:05:36interested in what is happening to the environment. The new Green
0:05:36 > 0:05:42Alliance is attacking George Osborne. It also says that most
0:05:42 > 0:05:50Britons believe that their children will have worse lives than them.
0:05:50 > 0:06:00On the Independent, remember me, a picture of David Attenborough there.
0:06:00 > 0:06:01
0:06:01 > 0:06:05The People has, that at 16. The Sunday Telegraph says that David
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Cameron has had an opinion poll boost.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12Jane Poland -- Jane Moore and Jonathan Powell, thank you for
0:06:12 > 0:06:18joining it. Where will we start? There is only one story and that is
0:06:18 > 0:06:22the economy. We have Mervyn King being criticised by certain people
0:06:22 > 0:06:32in the City and in political parties for, as they see it, rather
0:06:32 > 0:06:32
0:06:32 > 0:06:40overstepping the mark of his role. They are saying that in 1992 during
0:06:40 > 0:06:50the exchange rate mechanism crisis Eddie George was not to be seen. He
0:06:50 > 0:06:58was getting his BOP. -- kept in his box. It is a problem, isn't it? The
0:06:58 > 0:07:02top man in the Bank of England, on the one hand, is trying to increase
0:07:02 > 0:07:07confidence with quantitative easing, but if you are also saying that
0:07:07 > 0:07:14things are terrible, it undermines your position. It says here, the
0:07:14 > 0:07:20role of the Governor is to provide guidance, not to reassure the
0:07:20 > 0:07:24markets. I think it is his job to tell us the truth. Jonathan. For me,
0:07:24 > 0:07:28the most important story affecting Britain is the story about the euro.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31We believe that tomorrow the Germans and the French are going to
0:07:31 > 0:07:39unveil what the solution to the euro is, of which I think will be
0:07:39 > 0:07:44to go ahead with fiscal union, but we will be excluded. It will be the
0:07:44 > 0:07:53members of your rope -- the euro who go ahead and do that. We will
0:07:54 > 0:08:00be excluded from these negotiations. It doesn't seem possible that we
0:08:00 > 0:08:03will be able -- that they will be able to put in place Fiscal Union
0:08:03 > 0:08:06controlling national budget without a treaty, which will have big
0:08:06 > 0:08:12implications. They could conceivably go ahead with the
0:08:12 > 0:08:14treaty with just the 17 members of the euro. They are bound to start
0:08:14 > 0:08:20with an inter-governmental conference and try to bring Britain
0:08:20 > 0:08:25and the others into it. Indian, the Germans and the French will get
0:08:25 > 0:08:31what they want. With a economy not be worse if we had been in the
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Rock? You may be better off if you were inside in the long term. We
0:08:33 > 0:08:39are looking at the short-term consequences.
0:08:39 > 0:08:45A meanwhile, on the High Street, is it Morrison's? Yes, but first, in
0:08:45 > 0:08:49the Observer, the new pessimism. We had the Things Can Only Get Better
0:08:49 > 0:08:56slogan years ago. Now it seems that things can only get worse. Parents
0:08:56 > 0:09:02seem to think that their children will have it worse than they did.
0:09:02 > 0:09:09was trying to remember the great Larkin poem, our most depressing
0:09:09 > 0:09:12poet. Get out as early as you can, don't have any kids yourself. That
0:09:12 > 0:09:19is the kind of mood of today's papers. You were paying attention
0:09:19 > 0:09:23at school, when she? -- were you not? Most other countries are
0:09:23 > 0:09:27optimistic, we're always pessimistic.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29It is almost hysterical, the pessimism this morning. Where is
0:09:29 > 0:09:37the stiff upper lip when you needed? You mentioned Morrison's.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42For me, one of the biggest problems for future generations is that
0:09:42 > 0:09:46Morrison's have set up a new store in Salford and they are saying that
0:09:46 > 0:09:51they will only employ local youngsters. Of the 210 staff who
0:09:51 > 0:09:56will start work tomorrow, have left school without a single GCSE to
0:09:56 > 0:10:01their name. Morrisons has had to send 150 of them back for basic
0:10:01 > 0:10:06training skills on how to work - how to turn up on time, how to
0:10:06 > 0:10:09maintain eye contact with people, they have poor English, poor maths.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14They have spent 12 years in the education system. This is
0:10:14 > 0:10:21depressing. There was a story recently interviewing kids who
0:10:22 > 0:10:29would not take jobs in hospitality because they were all waiting to be
0:10:30 > 0:10:33on X Factor or to be rock stars. Jonathan, you next story. Yes, in
0:10:33 > 0:10:39the Independent, 1 Iran. There have been lots of stories recently about
0:10:39 > 0:10:44the invasion of Iran. The rule of thumb that I work and there is that
0:10:44 > 0:10:52the more people talk about it the less likely it is to happen. The
0:10:52 > 0:10:58interesting thing in Iran will be regime change. If rebels succeed in
0:10:58 > 0:11:04getting rid of Bashar al-Assad in Syria, Iran will be next. If the
0:11:04 > 0:11:11methods do not work in Syria, they will not work in Iran.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15You are also the New Machiavelli, according to your new book.
0:11:15 > 0:11:25According to your book, Tony Blair was at one point saying, we're
0:11:25 > 0:11:27
0:11:27 > 0:11:35really going to show Iran what is what. It is very difficult to make
0:11:35 > 0:11:39threats unless you have an or else. In the end, we managed to negotiate
0:11:39 > 0:11:45with them, but it is often very difficult with the Iranians.
0:11:45 > 0:11:54Negotiating with them is absolute hell. I can imagine.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57Which, the consumer or organisation, has said that people should haggle
0:11:57 > 0:12:02when the shopping at Christmas. I am always very British, I must pay
0:12:02 > 0:12:12what is on the label, I cannot bear to haggle. I am married to a high
0:12:12 > 0:12:19
0:12:19 > 0:12:23dollar, he has always haggled. -- haggler.
0:12:23 > 0:12:26We went to buy a car and he asked them how business was. They said it
0:12:26 > 0:12:36was not good and he said, you will not want me to leave without buying
0:12:36 > 0:12:37
0:12:37 > 0:12:43a car. He got me at �3,000 discount. Can we do this at market stalls?
0:12:43 > 0:12:49Ask for a deal on bananas? shopper quoted in here says he has
0:12:49 > 0:12:57done just that. Jonathan, you have a story about a
0:12:57 > 0:13:01man I think you have dealt with for many years. Yes, Gus O'Donnell. He
0:13:01 > 0:13:10is retiring. He was, for me, the first modern Cabinet Secretary we
0:13:10 > 0:13:18had. Many Cabinet secretaries were reminiscent of the past. He came
0:13:18 > 0:13:28into reform things. He was a football playing south London boy,
0:13:28 > 0:13:32
0:13:32 > 0:13:36he is not a toff in the old sense. He was focused on trying to change
0:13:36 > 0:13:39things. I was a civil servant for 16 years. They are very good but
0:13:40 > 0:13:47they are rather too set in the ways. Gus O'Donnell was someone who tried
0:13:47 > 0:13:53to change that. Do you think that ethos will stay? There will be a
0:13:53 > 0:13:59different guy who is the head of the Civil Service. He should have a
0:13:59 > 0:14:06different attitude and will play that will change things.
0:14:06 > 0:14:12Gus O'Donnell helped to keep us out of the euro, of course. We thought
0:14:12 > 0:14:17he was going to help us get into the euro. He came at one stage and
0:14:17 > 0:14:25said, you have a choice - you can join the euro or leisure chance. In
0:14:25 > 0:14:29my view, we made the wrong choice. Jane. Kate Middleton has a lot of
0:14:29 > 0:14:35things to deal with now that she is the Duchess of Cambridge and the
0:14:35 > 0:14:40future Queen, but this is a massive dilemma. Her hairdresser is leaving
0:14:40 > 0:14:46the salon that she frequents. She has the rather tricky decision to
0:14:46 > 0:14:52make off going with a man who does her hair are staying with the salon.
0:14:52 > 0:14:56I can see you glazing over. parallels with the last days of
0:14:56 > 0:15:03Tony Blair are incredible. women, leaving your hairdresser is
0:15:03 > 0:15:11literally like divorcing your husband. It is not the done thing.
0:15:11 > 0:15:18I know women who say, I do not like the way they do my hair about --
0:15:18 > 0:15:28any more, I want to leave, so my heart goes out to her.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30
0:15:30 > 0:15:34Anything to cheer us up? The Mrs Thatcher film. Meryl Streep playing
0:15:34 > 0:15:39Mrs Thatcher and all her friends are getting worried about it. But
0:15:39 > 0:15:44it is a wonderful idea to make a film about Mrs Thatcher. According
0:15:44 > 0:15:47to her biographer, he was worried there is a scene that shows her
0:15:47 > 0:15:57talking to some of her Cabinet Cabinet Ministers and says there is
0:15:57 > 0:15:58
0:15:58 > 0:16:02no way she would have done that. My brother worked for Mrs Thatcher and
0:16:02 > 0:16:08she used to cook him breakfast every morning and she would never
0:16:08 > 0:16:12reveal herself. We love the pandas, Sunshine and
0:16:12 > 0:16:20Sweetie, are they ready for the Scottish weather I ask myself?
0:16:20 > 0:16:25There is a strange story, Scotland on Sunday saying they have been
0:16:25 > 0:16:29given diplomatic imcommunity? they can park on a double yellow? I
0:16:29 > 0:16:32do love that. That's so sweet. They are charming, aren't they pandas.
0:16:32 > 0:16:39They will soon be depressed with the weather.
0:16:39 > 0:16:44Still on a gloomy day ght papers -- in the papers, pandas not a bad
0:16:44 > 0:16:49item to finish and the weather down in the soft south, it wasn't really
0:16:49 > 0:16:52properly cold when I got up this morning, but in the north of
0:16:52 > 0:16:56England it would have been different. Let's hear the best or
0:16:56 > 0:17:02different. Let's hear the best or worst from Chris Fawkes.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05We have already had some snow fall in Edinburgh Edinburgh Zoo. For
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Northern Ireland and England and Wales the showers are falling as
0:17:08 > 0:17:10rain at the moment except for the highest hills across Northern
0:17:10 > 0:17:14England and Northern Ireland. Through the rest of the day, there
0:17:14 > 0:17:19will be be lots more snow showers coming in across Scotland. We have
0:17:19 > 0:17:23had travel problems on the mijor routes. -- major routes. It is
0:17:23 > 0:17:27worth checking with the travel news before you head outside. Across
0:17:27 > 0:17:32England and Wales, there is more cloud around. A cooler day
0:17:32 > 0:17:35nationwide. Overnight, it turns snowy and icy
0:17:35 > 0:17:39for Scotland with difficult travelling conditions overnight and
0:17:39 > 0:17:43the snow showers will turn up over high ground in Northern Ireland and
0:17:43 > 0:17:48across north-west England too. But the focus of the really snowy
0:17:48 > 0:17:51weather will be across the West of Scotland where the the Met Office
0:17:51 > 0:18:00continues to have a weather warning out in force. By tomorrow morning,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03we are expecting accumulations of snow. 5 to 10 centimetres on roads
0:18:03 > 0:18:13above 200 meters. Travel disruption is a possibility. Another place
0:18:13 > 0:18:13
0:18:13 > 0:18:17that could be hit with snow fall will be across the Pennine routes.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21Bear that in mind. Elsewhere it turns colder.
0:18:21 > 0:18:29The best of the sunshine across eastern areas, but the temperatures
0:18:29 > 0:18:34at just 7 Celsius, it will feel Later this week Labour will launch
0:18:34 > 0:18:39its independent policing review to be conducted by Lord Stevens.
0:18:39 > 0:18:44Yvette Cooper says Labour would limit police cuts to 10% rather
0:18:44 > 0:18:48than the 20% that the Government is insisting on. Yvette Cooper joins
0:18:48 > 0:18:54me now. Good morning, Andrew.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58Let's start off with this policing review. Lord Stevens was known as
0:18:58 > 0:19:01the coppers' copper, he wrote a clum for the News of the World --
0:19:01 > 0:19:05column for the News of the World. Is this not going to be too close
0:19:05 > 0:19:10to the policing establishment which is a formidable lobby in this
0:19:10 > 0:19:15country? The review is led by Lord Stevens who has a formidable
0:19:15 > 0:19:19reputation in policek, but will -- policing, but will involve senior
0:19:19 > 0:19:23police officers from abroad and people from with a background in
0:19:23 > 0:19:30business, in the judiciary, in the community action as well. So a
0:19:30 > 0:19:33whole series of different people involved in this and also senior
0:19:33 > 0:19:36criminalolgists. It is important that we build a consensus around
0:19:36 > 0:19:40the future of policing because at the moment what we have got is not
0:19:41 > 0:19:45just a serious cuts that are taking place to 16,000 officers being lost,
0:19:45 > 0:19:49but also a kind of chaos and confusion around policing reform,
0:19:49 > 0:19:53cuts to policing powers that's making matters worse.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57You say that, but the idea of elected commissioners which Labour
0:19:57 > 0:20:02is against will seem to many people reasonable, rather a good idea,
0:20:02 > 0:20:06give people a bit more say, a bit more direct say in policing in
0:20:06 > 0:20:11their area by electing somebody in charge of policing? We said we
0:20:11 > 0:20:14thought the money that would go into the election of police and
0:20:14 > 0:20:19crime commissioners next year would be better spent on additional
0:20:19 > 0:20:23police officers in an Olympic year. The big question is how do you make
0:20:23 > 0:20:28sure that police are responding to the local communities? On every
0:20:28 > 0:20:31estate across the country and every areaks and not simply to somebody
0:20:31 > 0:20:33who will be elected for a rather large area. So I think there are a
0:20:33 > 0:20:39series of questions of accountability.
0:20:39 > 0:20:44A voice for those people, isn't that what they are for? You have
0:20:44 > 0:20:47got those changes taking place. Big questions about the checks and
0:20:47 > 0:20:50balances on those people, but at time when there are growing
0:20:50 > 0:20:53national threats and growing national pressures and serious
0:20:53 > 0:20:57local problems, the need to respond to local communities and what you
0:20:57 > 0:21:03are not getting from the Government is any vision. It is just a chaotic
0:21:03 > 0:21:06series of con confused measures. It is 50 years since we had the last
0:21:06 > 0:21:10Royal Commission at a time when police didn't have radios. It is
0:21:10 > 0:21:14time to have an overall vision for policing, for the future that looks
0:21:14 > 0:21:17at the serious challenges they are going to face for the 21st century
0:21:17 > 0:21:21rather than a mess that we're getting a the moment.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25But given that you have got, you know, an eminent former policeman
0:21:25 > 0:21:29who always spoke up for the police, you have got other policemen as
0:21:29 > 0:21:32well on this commission, it is not going to be too cosy, is it? It
0:21:32 > 0:21:35seems to me that you know if you look at membership of the
0:21:35 > 0:21:38commission, the fact that you have set it up, you are against the full
0:21:38 > 0:21:42measure of cuts the police are facing, there is a danger here of
0:21:42 > 0:21:45you just getting the answers you want from people who are not going
0:21:45 > 0:21:49to challenge the culture of the police as it is now? Well, there is
0:21:49 > 0:21:54a series of people involved in this hol be providing all kinds of
0:21:54 > 0:21:57challenges, but you know, what you have got to remember is at a time
0:21:57 > 0:22:01when 16,000 police officers are being cut, we have got you know,
0:22:01 > 0:22:05police powers being cut and the chaos of changes. The risk at the
0:22:05 > 0:22:10moment is the police just drawing their horns. Everybody else draws
0:22:10 > 0:22:15in their horns and the work to prevent crime going up disappears.
0:22:15 > 0:22:19All the work that helped deliver us a 40% reduction in crime over the
0:22:19 > 0:22:22last 13 or 14 years again disappears and what you see is big
0:22:22 > 0:22:25risks being taken with policing. Never forget we saw the problems in
0:22:25 > 0:22:28the summer where the police lost control of the streets for several
0:22:28 > 0:22:34days and didn't have the ability to keep up with the social networks
0:22:34 > 0:22:38and the media that was escalating the criminality that we saw then.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42You know, the police have got to be able to respond to the new changes.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45I think we need to work with the police to do it. At the moment, the
0:22:45 > 0:22:49Government's working against the police and we have a situation
0:22:49 > 0:22:54where one senior police officer said to me, "We won't take risks.
0:22:54 > 0:22:59We won't go out on a limb because we know the politicians and the
0:22:59 > 0:23:04ministers won't won't back us if they do." The police sometimes need
0:23:04 > 0:23:08to take risks and not taking risks they will push crime back up by
0:23:08 > 0:23:12making it harder for the the police to do their job.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17Theresa May said she is removing bubg October crassy and --
0:23:17 > 0:23:25bureaucracy and allowing them to do their job better? We have seen
0:23:25 > 0:23:30areas where they are increasing bureaucracy. I think there is a lot
0:23:30 > 0:23:35further we should go including changing legislation, but they have
0:23:35 > 0:23:42got to have the support they need, you know, taking away the powers to
0:23:42 > 0:23:45use DNA or ASBOs is a mad thing to If this is not a cosy process and
0:23:45 > 0:23:49if you will say hard truths to the police, where would you make the
0:23:49 > 0:23:52cuts in the policing service? say we think 12% would be
0:23:52 > 0:23:57sustainable and that was based on work Alan Johnson had done before
0:23:57 > 0:24:00the election. He identified areas around procurement, around the way
0:24:00 > 0:24:04the police make their contracts that you could save �400 million
0:24:04 > 0:24:12there. �500 million to be saved in different processes in ways and
0:24:12 > 0:24:18doing things and the independent inspectorate came up with different
0:24:18 > 0:24:20figures they thought you could raise 12%, but without affecting
0:24:20 > 0:24:24front-line services, without cutting the number of police
0:24:24 > 0:24:28officers on the streets. Less turn to the economy generally.
0:24:28 > 0:24:33Another poll in one of the papers today showing Labour falling behind
0:24:33 > 0:24:38the Conservatives at this dire time economically and a general sense
0:24:38 > 0:24:42interest a lot of polling at the moment that people just don't think
0:24:42 > 0:24:45the Labour Party is tough enough for tough times times. Not prepared
0:24:46 > 0:24:50to take tough decisions. Your rhetoric is about nasty Government
0:24:50 > 0:24:55making too many cuts, cutting back here and cutting back there.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58People believe that in these tough times hard decisions, hard cuts
0:24:58 > 0:25:02have to be described and they are not hearing that kind of language
0:25:02 > 0:25:06from you and they are not hearing the specifics from you? Well, you
0:25:06 > 0:25:09are right that tough decisions have to be made and that includes saying
0:25:09 > 0:25:13things and being prepared to say things when they are the truth and
0:25:13 > 0:25:16in fact, the Labour Party has been saying for a long time, the
0:25:16 > 0:25:20Government is cutting too far too fast, Plan A is not working and it
0:25:20 > 0:25:23is not going to work, what we saw last week was the evidence that it
0:25:23 > 0:25:27isn't working and fact, we are seeing borrowing coming in much
0:25:27 > 0:25:31higher to pay the bills a failure, not because they haven't got their
0:25:31 > 0:25:35act together on tax and spending, but because you have got a �29
0:25:35 > 0:25:38billion increase in the Social Security Bill, well that is because
0:25:38 > 0:25:41you have got more people on the dole, that's costing you more for
0:25:41 > 0:25:45the wrong things, not for the right things.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Realistically over the last couple of years no Government could have
0:25:48 > 0:25:52could have grown with this significant to a significant extent,
0:25:52 > 0:25:56could they? Therefore Labour's plans to cut back less, which would
0:25:56 > 0:26:00amount I think to �300 billion of extra borrowing by the end of this
0:26:00 > 0:26:04Parliament, would take the country much, much further towards losing
0:26:04 > 0:26:09its triple A position and losing its rating in the world? You would
0:26:09 > 0:26:14be unwise to use the Conservatives figures and to follow their
0:26:14 > 0:26:18argument. Let's be clear what we say we would do, we set out a plan
0:26:18 > 0:26:21for jobs and growth for this Pre- Budget Report and the economy was
0:26:21 > 0:26:24growing at the time of the election. We had unemployment coming down. We
0:26:24 > 0:26:27had youth unemployment coming douchblet you are right, there are
0:26:27 > 0:26:31additional global problems in Europe, but that's also why we said
0:26:31 > 0:26:34in the face of a global storm, you don't just rip out the foundations
0:26:34 > 0:26:37of the house. You need to support the economy, get it through. If you
0:26:37 > 0:26:41don't have the economy growing, if more people are on the dole, you
0:26:41 > 0:26:46know, if businesses aren't growing, it ends up costing you more. It is
0:26:46 > 0:26:50the same with policing, if you end up with crime going up, we end up
0:26:50 > 0:26:58spending more and we end up paying for the compensation for crime
0:26:58 > 0:27:02rather than preventing it happening. You upbraid me about using the
0:27:02 > 0:27:06Conservative figures. What is the figures then? Alistair Darling set
0:27:06 > 0:27:12out the figures. What are the figures.
0:27:13 > 0:27:17What Alistair Darling set out the borrow figures looked similar to
0:27:17 > 0:27:23what George Osborne set out, but we would have had higher growth. But
0:27:23 > 0:27:28what you have got to do is respond to the new circumstances and the
0:27:28 > 0:27:33new pressures we are facing. I am going to move on. First of all,
0:27:33 > 0:27:39the eurozone, an important meeting come up between the German and
0:27:39 > 0:27:43French leaders. If they don't come through with a credible answer how
0:27:43 > 0:27:47serious is that going fob the British economy? It is serious. The
0:27:47 > 0:27:52immediate thing they need to do is get the European Central Bank
0:27:52 > 0:27:56stepping in behind countries like it tale taly, if we don't have that
0:27:56 > 0:28:01-- Italy, if we don't have that, we should be worried about the euro. I
0:28:01 > 0:28:05am fearful they are going to put together a deal that actually risks
0:28:05 > 0:28:08not solving the problems, it is not just about the European Central
0:28:08 > 0:28:10Bank, they need a plan for growth and jobs across Europe and there is
0:28:10 > 0:28:14no sign of that at the moment either.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18Turning from growth and jobs to pensions. A little embarrassing
0:28:18 > 0:28:23that your former colleague, Lord Hutton is saying that the offer to
0:28:23 > 0:28:27the public sector unions on pensions is credible and that given
0:28:27 > 0:28:35you know, the economic position, the Government is speaking right?
0:28:35 > 0:28:39Well, I I I haven't seen everything John Hutton was saying today. He
0:28:39 > 0:28:45was concerned about the fact that the Government hasn't followed his
0:28:45 > 0:28:49approach and instead has introduce this 3% increase for all public
0:28:49 > 0:28:54sector workers. That's not something that was in Lord Hutton's
0:28:54 > 0:28:56report and instead... I think he thought that report was too
0:28:56 > 0:29:01optimistic. First of all what the Government is
0:29:01 > 0:29:06doing is not what the approach that's in Lord Hutton's report.
0:29:06 > 0:29:10There is this additional cost which risks making the public sector
0:29:10 > 0:29:13pension schemes unsustainable. There is a wider issue about how
0:29:13 > 0:29:20optimistic can we be about the economy? My fears is what the
0:29:20 > 0:29:22Government is going is making pessimism a self fulfilling
0:29:22 > 0:29:31prophecy because they are cutting fast.
0:29:31 > 0:29:37Of all the great American directors who came of age in the golden age
0:29:37 > 0:29:41of 1970s cinema, Martin Scorsese is the most revered. No-one captured
0:29:41 > 0:29:46men on the edge in the way that he did in Taxi Driver, Raging Bull and
0:29:46 > 0:29:50The Departed. His new film, Hugo, is a far cry from the mean streets
0:29:50 > 0:29:56of New York or the casinos of Vegas. It is based on a best-selling
0:29:56 > 0:30:06children's book and this film The 3-D. It stars Ben Kingsley and
0:30:06 > 0:30:11Sasha Baron Cohen and is set in a beautifully re created 1920s Paris.
0:30:11 > 0:30:16Scorsese sees it as a homage to the early pioneers of cinema, such as
0:30:16 > 0:30:24Charlie Chaplin. What they did at that time,
0:30:24 > 0:30:34technically, was amazing. There were references to that through
0:30:34 > 0:30:43
0:30:43 > 0:30:47Sasha Baron Cohen's character. But Merseyside! Move aside!
0:30:47 > 0:30:53This is quite a departure for you. The mean streets of 1920s Paris is
0:30:53 > 0:31:00not what we expect. I know! The due pick up this book and think,
0:31:00 > 0:31:06yes! It is the imagination of a child. The sense of wonder and the
0:31:06 > 0:31:16sense of joy and terror? Yes, and playing with them, which is
0:31:16 > 0:31:18
0:31:18 > 0:31:26basically what we do. Making movies, we are playing. Children's minds
0:31:26 > 0:31:32are open. To be around that, it is great. I saw the book and I said,
0:31:32 > 0:31:41this is a natural. They did say to me at the studio, Martin, make a
0:31:41 > 0:31:51child -- make a full match your child could see just for once. --
0:31:51 > 0:31:58
0:31:58 > 0:32:01You have these fantastic -- this fantastic body of work and you are
0:32:01 > 0:32:08taught in colleges and schools now. I wanted to us, what is your
0:32:08 > 0:32:12favourite Martin Scorsese film? Or is it like a rock star who says,
0:32:12 > 0:32:22the one that I just made. Probably. I guess I just go back to the roots
0:32:22 > 0:32:24
0:32:24 > 0:32:28of it. The film that I showed a little bit of where Wright came
0:32:28 > 0:32:33from was the documentary I made of my mother and father, called
0:32:33 > 0:32:36Italian-American. As with many of your films, the
0:32:36 > 0:32:46music is terribly important. wanted more but we couldn't afford
0:32:46 > 0:32:46
0:32:46 > 0:32:56it. You made this remarkable documentary, Shine at Light, which
0:32:56 > 0:32:59
0:32:59 > 0:33:05allows you to get really close to the Rolling Stones. We went with 12
0:33:05 > 0:33:15cameras and then when we started to film them, Bob said, we need eight
0:33:15 > 0:33:20more. Just to keep them in focus. To capture them in concert, and
0:33:20 > 0:33:24also the aspect off, of what is rock music at this point in time?
0:33:24 > 0:33:32Particularly for the pioneers and the ones who established what we
0:33:32 > 0:33:40know as rock music, is it only meant for a certain age group? The
0:33:40 > 0:33:45four-man -- the phenomenon of older rock stars is interesting.
0:33:45 > 0:33:52That leads me to Bob Dylan. He is the most enigmatic of them all.
0:33:52 > 0:33:58Tell me a little bit about working with Bob. Jeff Rosen was the
0:33:58 > 0:34:08producer. He said I have some footage with Bob. He did an
0:34:08 > 0:34:18interview with Bob Dylan that lasted 10 hours. Bob Totton, I am
0:34:18 > 0:34:19
0:34:19 > 0:34:23going to do this once and never again. -- Bob told him. He said to
0:34:23 > 0:34:30me, do you think you can make something of it? My problem was the
0:34:30 > 0:34:33freedom to make something of it. I admire his work so much and I am
0:34:33 > 0:34:43not interested in the negative aspect of it. I am interested in
0:34:43 > 0:34:44
0:34:44 > 0:34:49how he managed to stay on his own course.
0:34:49 > 0:34:51In taking all the elements that I've ever known to make wide
0:34:52 > 0:34:57sweeping statements that contains a general lessons of the spirit of
0:34:57 > 0:35:05the Times, I think I have managed to do that. I thought that I needed
0:35:05 > 0:35:14to press on and get as far into it as I could.
0:35:14 > 0:35:22#the answer is blowing in the wind. Sometimes you seem more interested
0:35:22 > 0:35:32in music. Or as interested in music. You made a film about the blues.
0:35:32 > 0:35:32
0:35:32 > 0:35:36worked on a film with Eric Clapton called Nothing But The Blues. I had
0:35:36 > 0:35:46some footage of the original Mississippi Delta blues, Chicago
0:35:46 > 0:35:53
0:35:54 > 0:35:59Do you see yourself as a kind of historian and novelist of the
0:35:59 > 0:36:03American story? You're telling a lot of the American story, one
0:36:03 > 0:36:08where another. I find that the obsession is there that compels me
0:36:08 > 0:36:14to tell these stories, particularly through the music. Music was
0:36:14 > 0:36:17immediate. My brother played guitar, we lived in tenements. We cannot
0:36:17 > 0:36:21even afford a still camera so there was no question of making movies.
0:36:21 > 0:36:25Music was something you could do. I could not play, my father could
0:36:25 > 0:36:32play. My mother would sing while she was cleaning up the house and
0:36:32 > 0:36:41washing dishes. In America, there was a different thing at that time
0:36:41 > 0:36:49in the late 40s where there was lots of different types of music.
0:36:49 > 0:36:56It was not cut up into genres were know. I hear you're thinking of
0:36:56 > 0:37:00making a movie about Frank Sinatra, possibly with Leonardo DiCaprio and
0:37:00 > 0:37:09possibly in 3-D? Yes. I think 3-D is a good element in telling
0:37:09 > 0:37:15stories. I think anything can work in 3-D. What excites you about it?
0:37:15 > 0:37:24In a sense, the way that I perceive you right now, you are in space.
0:37:24 > 0:37:32Even behind the ears? Yes. It is like a sculpture, in a way.
0:37:32 > 0:37:37Still, as from the beginning, it is about getting the audience into the
0:37:37 > 0:37:42cinema to surprise them? Yes. That can be emotional, too. It might be
0:37:42 > 0:37:49the emotional impact of the last two lines of Brief Encounter.
0:37:49 > 0:37:51Martin Scorsese, thank you very much indeed.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55And if you're wondering what the closing lines of Brief Encounter
0:37:55 > 0:37:59are, take a look at our website, where there is also a longer
0:37:59 > 0:38:01version of that interview. I am joined by Deputy Prime
0:38:01 > 0:38:08Minister Nick Clegg. Good morning. Good morning.
0:38:08 > 0:38:11Looking through the papers, since the Autumn Statement, the overall
0:38:11 > 0:38:20consensual position is that the economy is just going to go through
0:38:20 > 0:38:23a grim, frozen period for years ahead. It changes the all mood of
0:38:23 > 0:38:28politics in the country. It has been a tough week because we have
0:38:28 > 0:38:34all had to recognise and reconcile ourselves to the fact that, as the
0:38:34 > 0:38:37Office for Budget Responsibility said, than not that we took in 2008
0:38:37 > 0:38:42when the banking system blew up was much more serious than we even
0:38:42 > 0:38:46thought then, that it is going to take longer to recover from that,
0:38:46 > 0:38:51and then that a number of further things have happened that have
0:38:51 > 0:38:55delivered blows to the economy, notably energy prices and inflation
0:38:55 > 0:38:59going up over the last year. That has meant that people have suddenly
0:38:59 > 0:39:04thought, gosh, the time of recovery is going to be further away than we
0:39:04 > 0:39:09thought. That, of course, creates anxiety, which is why a think it is
0:39:10 > 0:39:14so important, as a country, but we do not allow ourselves to become
0:39:14 > 0:39:19divided. It is not private sector versus public sector, north versus
0:39:19 > 0:39:25south. We, as a government, need to redouble our efforts to show that
0:39:25 > 0:39:29what we're doing is being done as fairly as possible. Otherwise we
0:39:29 > 0:39:37will not get everyone to support these difficult decisions.
0:39:37 > 0:39:44You mention "as fairly as possible", there has been great criticism of
0:39:44 > 0:39:48the effect of the Autumn Statement on poor families. It has been
0:39:48 > 0:39:57suggested that 100,000 people will be moved into poverty as a result
0:39:57 > 0:40:05of the measures taken and that the people worst-affected are those on
0:40:05 > 0:40:11low in comes. I do not want to go into the statistics. The way that
0:40:11 > 0:40:21some of them are calculated is a bit ropey. The Child poverty figure
0:40:21 > 0:40:21
0:40:21 > 0:40:24is relative. It means that, if you help pensioners, as we are, that
0:40:24 > 0:40:27statistically that means that you're not helping children, which
0:40:27 > 0:40:36is a ludicrous thing to say. It does not take into account many of
0:40:36 > 0:40:42the other things we're doing that make a big difference. We're going
0:40:42 > 0:40:46to double to 260,000 the number of toddlers who will get 15 hours of
0:40:46 > 0:40:56free child care for the first time ever. Why is that important?
0:40:56 > 0:40:57
0:40:57 > 0:41:00Because we know that if you give a toddler that, you're giving them
0:41:00 > 0:41:03the best possible start. Here you are now in a situation where, if
0:41:03 > 0:41:08you're going to give to some people, you have to take from others. You
0:41:08 > 0:41:15give to toddlers but you have taken away what many people were relying,
0:41:15 > 0:41:24which was an uprating of child benefit? We are increasing child
0:41:24 > 0:41:28tax credit by �130. Reg remember, on that one in particular, that
0:41:28 > 0:41:33helps families who are in work or out of work. The above inflation
0:41:33 > 0:41:39promise that people thought had been made has been taken away.
0:41:39 > 0:41:42what we have done is that we are freezing two components of the
0:41:42 > 0:41:51working tax credit. We have froze and other parts for three years up
0:41:51 > 0:41:56until last year. In cash terms, no- one loses out. But if you factor in
0:41:56 > 0:42:01inflation they do. One of the components is worth around �2,000
0:42:01 > 0:42:08and it will remain exactly at that value next year. This is important
0:42:08 > 0:42:16- I make no-one apology at all for us having to make difficult choices
0:42:16 > 0:42:19and, in those choices, prioritise in the poorest. The fear and
0:42:19 > 0:42:23anxiety of unemployment is clearly greater now than it has been for a
0:42:23 > 0:42:28very long period of time. Many people know of other people -
0:42:28 > 0:42:31cousins, old relatives, neighbours - who have lost their jobs and they
0:42:31 > 0:42:34are worried about their own job security was I think it is right
0:42:34 > 0:42:38for the government might to say, if you have lost your job through no
0:42:38 > 0:42:43fault of your own you will have benefits that are fully up rated by
0:42:43 > 0:42:46the inflation, over 5%, in order to get you back into work. We are also
0:42:46 > 0:42:53protecting children through the full uprating of the tax credit.
0:42:53 > 0:42:58Is it not true that that uprating came about because the Liberal
0:42:58 > 0:43:02Democrats insisted on it? I read post-mortems about who said what.
0:43:02 > 0:43:07In coalition governments you have constant discussions and debates
0:43:07 > 0:43:14and so on. You were tabling this as one of your successes, were you
0:43:14 > 0:43:19not? When we are faced with invidious choices - and there are
0:43:19 > 0:43:24no easy choices left to this Government - you have to be guided
0:43:24 > 0:43:27by a basic sense of what is right for the poorest and the most
0:43:27 > 0:43:31tolerable. That is what we have done by operating the benefits for
0:43:31 > 0:43:37the poorest and the most tolerable. In terms of the future, is Danny
0:43:37 > 0:43:46Alexander Wright when he says that you will have to going to the next
0:43:46 > 0:43:49election with another �30 billion of spending cuts? This is the
0:43:49 > 0:43:54interesting thing politically - before this week there was only one
0:43:54 > 0:43:58party, the Labour Party, that was advocating more savings after the
0:43:58 > 0:44:01next general election. Now all three parties are moving to a
0:44:01 > 0:44:04position where we have to explain to the British people where and how
0:44:04 > 0:44:12we make additional savings after the next election. We have been
0:44:12 > 0:44:17very up front with people, as a party and the government. The
0:44:17 > 0:44:21details about how you do it fairly and how you mix between taxing and
0:44:21 > 0:44:25spending, all of that is open to debate.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28We are talking about a lost decade and compelling as with Japan. If
0:44:29 > 0:44:33your party is going to go into the next election talking about �30
0:44:33 > 0:44:37billion of cuts, like the conserve this, you are effectively going to
0:44:37 > 0:44:46be in lockstep. You will have to see this through as a coalition
0:44:46 > 0:44:52government. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown subscribed to John Major's
0:44:52 > 0:45:00spending plans in 1997. No-one said they were identical. We agree on
0:45:00 > 0:45:07the overall need to live within our means as a country. The Liberal
0:45:07 > 0:45:11Democrats will be independent and will be very keen to push our
0:45:11 > 0:45:14uniqueness and that blend that we represent in British politics. It
0:45:14 > 0:45:17is about how you arrive at the overall figures. There will be lots
0:45:17 > 0:45:21of general debate up to and through the general election.
0:45:21 > 0:45:29A lot of people cannot see any difference between you and the
0:45:29 > 0:45:36Conservatives. You said, we do not going to that. -- broke into that.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39I said that we wanted to protect the vulnerable, deliver run the
0:45:39 > 0:45:49increased entitlement to toddlers as of everyone knows I have been
0:45:49 > 0:45:50
0:45:50 > 0:45:54The centrepiece of tax policy to lift more people out of paying
0:45:54 > 0:45:56income tax has come from the front page of the of the Liberal Democrat
0:45:56 > 0:46:01manifesto of last year. At the time of the next election
0:46:01 > 0:46:05you would be able to go into an election with a distintively
0:46:05 > 0:46:10different plan for the economy than the Conservatives after five years
0:46:10 > 0:46:16of working closely together? Let me give you two examples. I'm not
0:46:16 > 0:46:19going to start writing manifestoes four years in advance. It is clear
0:46:19 > 0:46:23for instance if we are going to try and make the sums add up, the
0:46:23 > 0:46:26Liberal Democrats, as a party, will be less inclined to spend a lot of
0:46:26 > 0:46:31money on replacing the Trident system. We have been open about
0:46:31 > 0:46:35that. I believe and have done for a long time, that we should be asking
0:46:35 > 0:46:39millionaire pensioners to perhaps make a little sacrifice on their
0:46:39 > 0:46:44free TV licence or their free bus passes. These are things where we
0:46:44 > 0:46:49don't agree as a Government right now, but where those arguments will
0:46:49 > 0:46:54play out in the years ahead. That's the natural battleground of British
0:46:54 > 0:46:59politics. To be upfront with people and to agree what the savings need
0:46:59 > 0:47:03to be, but to have the key debate about who are the winners and who
0:47:03 > 0:47:06are the losers. Winners and losers then at a time
0:47:06 > 0:47:10when people on average earnings are having a really, really tough time.
0:47:10 > 0:47:15Yes. Is it fair that for instance last
0:47:15 > 0:47:20year FT 100 executives were getting 49% average increase in what they
0:47:20 > 0:47:26were taking home? Executive pay remains something which appears to
0:47:26 > 0:47:30a lot of people out of control? agree with you. The revelation that
0:47:30 > 0:47:33top executives of some of our top companies are receiving up to 50%
0:47:33 > 0:47:37pay increases even though their companies weren't doing any better
0:47:37 > 0:47:42was a real slap in the face for millions of people in this country
0:47:42 > 0:47:44who are struggling to make ends meet. We need to call time on
0:47:44 > 0:47:50excessive and irresponsible behaviour in the public sector just
0:47:50 > 0:47:54as we have been... In the private sector? In the private sector, yes.
0:47:54 > 0:48:02Just as we have tough on unaffordable things in the public
0:48:02 > 0:48:05sector, we need to get tough on irresponsible behaviour. What do I
0:48:05 > 0:48:09mean by that? I don't mean the Government starts going around
0:48:09 > 0:48:13setting pay rates in the private sector. That's not what I mean. I
0:48:13 > 0:48:19believe people should be well paid if they succeed. What I abhor is
0:48:19 > 0:48:26people who get paid bucket loads of cash in difficult times for failure.
0:48:26 > 0:48:30? Is there any way politicians can intervene? We have consulted. We
0:48:31 > 0:48:36are going to come forward with proposals next month and the things
0:48:36 > 0:48:41we're looking at is for instance, to break open this closed shop of
0:48:41 > 0:48:48remuneration committees which seems to be an old boys... A remuneration
0:48:48 > 0:48:52committee, I give you an increase? Can you make companies stop that?
0:48:52 > 0:48:57Of course, you can. We have got plenty of means which which we can
0:48:57 > 0:49:05make sure the remoney rakes committees -- remuneration
0:49:05 > 0:49:08committees are opened up. Share Holders should be given a greater
0:49:08 > 0:49:12say. What about employees? Well, we have
0:49:12 > 0:49:16consulted on whether there is a case for putting employees on the
0:49:16 > 0:49:21remuneration committees. We are consulting on whether you should
0:49:21 > 0:49:26publish information on the ratio between those, the pay of top
0:49:26 > 0:49:31executives and the average pay. Will Hutton argued that it
0:49:31 > 0:49:36shouldn't be more than 20 times? There was An independent high Pay
0:49:36 > 0:49:41Commission which reported and they did extremely good work. And we are
0:49:41 > 0:49:43if not in agreement with all of what they said, in agreement with
0:49:43 > 0:49:48many of the points they have made and they have suggested there
0:49:48 > 0:49:52should be more transparency in relationship for the pay at those
0:49:52 > 0:49:56at the top and those in the boiler room in these companies. These are
0:49:56 > 0:50:01tough times for everybody whether in the public or private sector.
0:50:01 > 0:50:06Whether you are a nurse or factory worker or a Taxi Driver or a civil
0:50:06 > 0:50:13servant with' mead to make sure -- need to make sure that people in
0:50:13 > 0:50:16the public sector don't feel they are doing all the heavy lifting.
0:50:16 > 0:50:19People watching will understand the politics of it, but they will want
0:50:19 > 0:50:26to know are you prepared for instance to bring forward
0:50:26 > 0:50:30legislation early in the New Year to make sure these things happen?
0:50:30 > 0:50:33If legislation is require, of course, we will do so. As I say,
0:50:33 > 0:50:36there is no question of this Government and it would be
0:50:36 > 0:50:41ridiculous if we were to suggest that of setting pay, but greater
0:50:41 > 0:50:45transparency, less of a closed shop in the remuneration committees,
0:50:45 > 0:50:49greater openness and accountability by which executives are are paid so
0:50:49 > 0:50:53it is related to what they actually do and succeed in doing.
0:50:53 > 0:50:58We are short of time. Let me move on to the eurozone. Angela Merkel
0:50:58 > 0:51:02is right when she says there has to be fiscal union if the eurozone is
0:51:02 > 0:51:09going to hold together? She is right when she says the design of
0:51:09 > 0:51:14the union as it is is lopsided and needs to be changed. It has to mean
0:51:14 > 0:51:19a treaty change? I have always been outspoken against a great big
0:51:19 > 0:51:23treaty change. We open the whole Pandora's box and people say they
0:51:23 > 0:51:28want this change and that change. I can't see how the treaty cannot
0:51:28 > 0:51:33be changed? There are quite a lot of provisions in the treaty as it
0:51:33 > 0:51:38exists which this is the great tragedy by the way, I was a
0:51:38 > 0:51:41supporter of our entry into the euro many, many years back, and I
0:51:41 > 0:51:45was a supporter because I believed what was written in the treaty
0:51:45 > 0:51:48about the rules that should have been respected by the countries...
0:51:48 > 0:51:52And you have changed your mind? What I have responded to clearly is
0:51:52 > 0:51:56the fact that those rules where not adhered to. That's the tragedy and
0:51:56 > 0:52:00bluntly it was the French and German governments back in 2005 who
0:52:00 > 0:52:03signalled there was going to be a free for for fall that the rules
0:52:03 > 0:52:07shouldn't be adhered to. If the rules had been stuck to, we
0:52:07 > 0:52:10wouldn't be in the trouble we are in and therefore it is right that
0:52:10 > 0:52:13they should be strengthened. I would like to see those rules
0:52:13 > 0:52:17strength wnd a minimum amount of institutional fuss because if you
0:52:17 > 0:52:24open this whole thing up into a naval gazing exercise, that would
0:52:24 > 0:52:26be damaging to the urgent need to make sure we fix things in the
0:52:26 > 0:52:30eurozone. It would trigger a referendum in
0:52:30 > 0:52:34this country about our relationship with Europe. My next question is
0:52:34 > 0:52:37could the coalition survive a referendum on our relationship with
0:52:37 > 0:52:43Europe? I don't think there needs to be a referendum.
0:52:43 > 0:52:49The Prime Minister promised one. If there is a treaty change, he
0:52:49 > 0:52:53promised a referendum? It will only take place if there is a surrender
0:52:53 > 0:52:58of sovereigntry. I thought any substantial treaty
0:52:58 > 0:53:01change would trigger a referendum? No, the test which we have
0:53:02 > 0:53:05legislated on if we the United Kingdom give up more sovereigntry
0:53:05 > 0:53:10to the European Union. The changes which are now required are changes
0:53:10 > 0:53:15which are required in the euro 17. Briefly, I am sorry because we are
0:53:15 > 0:53:19coming to the end of this. In no agreement is reached next weekend,
0:53:19 > 0:53:25how serious is that for the British economy and for the euro? Is it the
0:53:25 > 0:53:30end for the euro? It is grave if no agreement is reached. Perhaps not
0:53:30 > 0:53:34every T crossed and every I dotted, but we need to have a clear road
0:53:34 > 0:53:40map if you like towards the stabilisation, and strengthening of
0:53:40 > 0:53:44the eurozone. Let's not forget, whatever your views on Europe,
0:53:44 > 0:53:49three million people in our country depend on their jobs on our role in
0:53:49 > 0:53:52the European Union. That's not not something we should give up lightly.
0:53:52 > 0:53:57The deptry Prime Minister announced the Government will bring forward
0:53:57 > 0:53:59proposals to limit executive pay increases. He said excessive
0:53:59 > 0:54:04boardroom pay was a slap in the face to millions of families
0:54:04 > 0:54:07struggling to get by. He said the Government was prepared toe
0:54:07 > 0:54:16legislate to make committees who decide pay levels more open and
0:54:16 > 0:54:22accountable. A former minister has called for
0:54:22 > 0:54:26radical reforms now the outlook for the UK UK economic growth has has
0:54:26 > 0:54:32been downgraded. Lord Hutton said the assumptions behind his report
0:54:32 > 0:54:38may have been too optimistic. Yvette Cooper said asking people to
0:54:38 > 0:54:41make higher contributions risks making the system unsustainable.
0:54:41 > 0:54:44That's all for now. The next news on BBC One is at
0:54:44 > 0:54:48midday. Back to you, Andrew.
0:54:48 > 0:54:53Thank you. Nick Clegg is still with me. We are joined by the American
0:54:53 > 0:54:59singer as long writer, Aloe Blacc. We are going to hear one of the
0:54:59 > 0:55:04anthems for tough times. One of the things that I was amazed by when I
0:55:04 > 0:55:08I was reading your biography, you worked for Ernest and young.
0:55:08 > 0:55:15You were an accountant figure? worked in the business consulting
0:55:15 > 0:55:18division of of Ernst and Young so I have been in the thick of the
0:55:18 > 0:55:23corporate world. And that gave you the inspiration
0:55:23 > 0:55:27for the song we're going to hear? Well, being made redundant gave me
0:55:27 > 0:55:30inspiration! Yeah, for sure.
0:55:30 > 0:55:36We are looking forward to it very much.
0:55:36 > 0:55:40In the coalition Government Aloe can give me tips on how to reinvent
0:55:40 > 0:55:45myself. What do you make of Lord Hutton's
0:55:45 > 0:55:50remarks? He is stating the obvious. As circumstances are tough, it is
0:55:50 > 0:55:54important we we get a good deal and I am glad he recognised what we put
0:55:54 > 0:55:58forward is credible and reasonable. We will cut off now. If we don't
0:55:58 > 0:56:06get agreement on the euro, that could be the end of the euro, some
0:56:06 > 0:56:13MEPs are saying the same thing? There is no doubt the whole
0:56:13 > 0:56:18foundation of the euro is skating on thin ice. We must protect
0:56:18 > 0:56:24Britain's interests and particularly the integrity the
0:56:24 > 0:56:29single market. Any reasonable person must wish the the French and
0:56:29 > 0:56:31the Germans luck in sorting this out because it affects us. Join me
0:56:32 > 0:56:38next week when I will be talking to David Attenborough, Jenny Agutter
0:56:38 > 0:56:48and more. There will be music from Mick Hucknall. Until then we leave
0:56:48 > 0:56:48
0:56:48 > 0:56:50you with Aloe Blacc performing I # I need a dollar dollar, a dollar
0:56:50 > 0:56:53is what I need # Hey hey
0:56:53 > 0:56:56# Well I need a dollar dollar, a dollar is what I need
0:56:56 > 0:57:00# Hey hey # And I said I need a dollar dollar,
0:57:00 > 0:57:03a dollar is what I need # And if I share with you my story,
0:57:03 > 0:57:13would you share your dollar with me # Bad times are comin and I reap
0:57:13 > 0:57:19
0:57:19 > 0:57:21what I don't sow # I had a job but the boss man let
0:57:21 > 0:57:24me go # He said, "I'm sorry but I won't
0:57:24 > 0:57:29be needing your help no more'" # I said, "Please mister boss man,
0:57:29 > 0:57:33I need this job more than you know # But he gave me my last pay cheque
0:57:33 > 0:57:35and he sent me on out the door # Well I need a dollar dollar, a
0:57:35 > 0:57:38dollar is what I need # Hey hey
0:57:38 > 0:57:41# Said I need a dollar dollar, a dollar is what I need
0:57:41 > 0:57:44# Hey hey # And I need a dollar dollar, a
0:57:44 > 0:57:48dollar is what I need # And if I share with you my story
0:57:48 > 0:57:50would you share your dollar with me # Well I don't know if I'm walking
0:57:50 > 0:57:53on solid ground # Cause everything around me is
0:57:53 > 0:57:56crumbling down # And all I want is for someone to
0:57:56 > 0:57:58help me # What in the world am I gonna to
0:57:58 > 0:58:01do tomorrow # Is there someone whose dollar
0:58:01 > 0:58:06that I can borrow # Who can help me take away my
0:58:06 > 0:58:15sorrow # Maybe it's inside the bottle
0:58:15 > 0:58:20I need a dollar, a dollar is what I need
0:58:20 > 0:58:24# I said I need a dollar, that's what I need