:00:40. > :00:44.Good morning, and welcome. Now, Good morning, and welcome. Now,
:00:44. > :00:49.politics is a rough old game, but this weekend I read one verdict on
:00:49. > :00:53.political infighting that somewhat startled me. It goes like this:
:00:53. > :00:58.you hauled fighting rum, a caravan of harlots
:00:58. > :01:02.and a boxing tent into a mining town on pay Day, you would hardly predict
:01:02. > :01:07.the level of crazed viciousness has broken out in what's left of the
:01:07. > :01:10.heart of the Labour Party. Now, you are thinking: hold on a minute,
:01:10. > :01:13.I can't quite see Ed Miliband Yvette Cooper with bottles of
:01:13. > :01:17.don't worry. That was a description of life in the
:01:17. > :01:25.Party. Joining me today for a review of the Sunday newspapers as we
:01:25. > :01:35.reflect on the death of Marie Colvin, the journalist in Syria,
:01:35. > :01:40.Kelvin MacKenzie and Kate Adie on the day of the launch of Sun on
:01:40. > :01:48.Sunday, the former editor Currant Bun, Kelvin MacKenzie.
:01:48. > :01:54.We should start by talking about Syria. People trying to get medicine
:01:54. > :01:59.to injured journalists in Homs have been found dead. Is there anything
:01:59. > :02:01.now that the so-called international community can actually do? The
:02:01. > :02:05.International Development Andrew Mitchell joins us
:02:05. > :02:09.about all of that and the latest news about the wounded British
:02:09. > :02:14.photographer who is trapped in Homs. Closer to home, what class of folk
:02:14. > :02:18.get the worst kicking in this country, still ahead of journalists
:02:18. > :02:21.and estate agents even, it must be bankers, the people whose salaries
:02:22. > :02:25.and bonuses promote incredulity and anger in equal measure. I have
:02:25. > :02:28.speaking to one of the most controversial bankers, though he
:02:28. > :02:32.decided to say no to his bonus, asking Stephen Hester, the chief
:02:32. > :02:37.executive of RBS, why his profession is so fixated by huge
:02:38. > :02:43.rewards. The actress, illegal
:02:43. > :02:51.The actress, The actress, actress Celia Imrie,
:02:51. > :02:56.has won countless awards. Now she is starring
:02:56. > :03:00.Victoria Hospital, one of the funniest things you can see on stage
:03:00. > :03:06.- at the Old Vic Theatre. Plus music coming up from a
:03:06. > :03:11.remarkable new talent. It's the American opera
:03:11. > :03:14.American opera singer from Harlem by the name of Noah. First to
:03:14. > :03:16.desk. Good morning, Syrian also vote later
:03:16. > :03:21.on a new constitution, despite continuing violence across
:03:21. > :03:25.country. The government has drafted the proposals in an attempt to calm
:03:25. > :03:35.the uprising against the regime President Assad will still
:03:35. > :03:36.
:03:36. > :03:42.total control. It has already been rejected by opposition groups.
:03:42. > :03:45.Soldiers from the Free Syrian Army Soldiers from the Free Syrian Army
:03:45. > :03:48.fighting government forces in Homs. Human rights groups say at least
:03:48. > :03:52.people have died in the violence. Although the figures can't
:03:52. > :04:01.be independently verified. Despite this chaos, the authorities are
:04:01. > :04:03.pressing ahead with the day's referendum.
:04:03. > :04:09.State television has been urging State television has been urging
:04:09. > :04:12.Syrians to vote, and preparations are being made for at least
:04:12. > :04:15.polling stations to cope possibly more than
:04:15. > :04:19.voters. It's supposed to be the centrepiece of the reform process,
:04:19. > :04:24.proposed by President Assad in response to the uprising. But the
:04:24. > :04:30.opposition have dismissed it as farce and called for a boycott. It's
:04:30. > :04:36.not safe to leave your home, let alone that it would be a shame for
:04:36. > :04:41.the Syrian people to be considered as idiots again. We have stopped
:04:41. > :04:45.this. We no longer want to vote an illegitimate constitution that
:04:45. > :04:51.was written by country. And how do you
:04:51. > :05:00.referendum here? In many parts of the country, the whole process seems
:05:00. > :05:01.A new animal virus that causes A new animal virus that causes
:05:01. > :05:02.A new animal virus that causes miscarriages and birth defects in
:05:02. > :05:03.miscarriages and birth defects in miscarriages and birth defects in
:05:03. > :05:06.A new animal livestock has been found in 74 farms
:05:06. > :05:10.in England. The Schmallenberg virus has mostly been found in sheep
:05:10. > :05:14.although it also affected a small number of cattle. Defra says the
:05:14. > :05:19.disease has probably been carried from Germany and the Netherlands
:05:19. > :05:24.infected midges. Humans are to be unaffected by it.
:05:24. > :05:30.The Pentagon has called the killing The Pentagon has called the killing
:05:30. > :05:34.of two NATO officials in Kabul unaccept many. The Taliban says it
:05:34. > :05:40.carried out the shootings in retaliation for American soldiers
:05:40. > :05:45.burning copies of the week. Civilian staff are being
:05:45. > :05:52.pulled out of the city. The first edition of the Sun on
:05:52. > :05:56.Sunday has gone on sale. Rupert Murdoch went to see it at the
:05:56. > :06:02.printing presses. The World was shut down last year amid
:06:02. > :06:06.claims of widespread phone hacking. Tonight is the 84th annual Academy
:06:06. > :06:10.Awards. Martin Scorsese's Hugo has 11 nominations, closely followed
:06:10. > :06:13.The Artist which is up for ten. Brits up for gongs include Gary
:06:13. > :06:18.Oldman and Kenneth Branagh; Christopher Plummer has also been
:06:18. > :06:23.nominated for best supporting role in the film Beginners where he plays
:06:23. > :06:28.a gay widower. If he wins he will become the oldest acting winner ever
:06:28. > :06:33.at 82. I will be back just before 10.00 with the headlines.
:06:33. > :06:36.Many thanks. To the front pages as Many thanks. To the front pages as
:06:36. > :06:40.usual. It's the battle of tabloids this morning. There is The
:06:40. > :06:47.Sun again, an Amanda Holden exclusive "My heart stopped for 40
:06:47. > :06:53.seconds." 50p it says, very boldly, there. The People, 50p. Very boldly.
:06:54. > :07:01.A story about a stoke. A story Charles and Camilla. The
:07:01. > :07:04.Mirror doesn't say 50p because it costs a pound. Kerry to wed. MP
:07:04. > :07:08.headbutted me on the nose, that's about the story in the House of
:07:08. > :07:12.Commons bar which is now being investigated by the police so all
:07:12. > :07:16.details there allegedly. Sunday Telegraph has got that interesting
:07:16. > :07:22.story about the mystery killing thousands of lambs. It
:07:22. > :07:26.in the continent and now it has spread to Britain too. Labour's
:07:26. > :07:33.failing leadership by Charles who has scrubbed up well, you can
:07:33. > :07:40.see, since he left the frontbench. The Observer: UK leading the dash
:07:40. > :07:44.for oil in Somalia. And the Times, let's have a look,
:07:44. > :07:50.that was, of course, the newspaper that Marie Colvin worked for, so not
:07:50. > :07:52.a surprise to see such a lot about that and about the journalist, the
:07:53. > :07:58.photographer Paul Conroy who is injured and still stuck in Homs.
:07:58. > :08:03.will be talking about his situation later. Kelvin MacKenzie and Kate
:08:03. > :08:06.Adie, thank you both very much joining us. Kate Adie,
:08:06. > :08:11.in some pretty dire and places yourself over the
:08:11. > :08:14.to us about the Marie coverage. An enormous amount this
:08:14. > :08:18.weekend. In the broadsheets. shall in the tabloids.
:08:18. > :08:22.known, she was a very journalist, she wasn't
:08:22. > :08:25.name to a lot of people but even so within journalism she mattered
:08:25. > :08:28.tremendously because she was one of these people who was prepared to go
:08:28. > :08:34.in, stay in, tell it like it was. One of the difficult things,
:08:34. > :08:40.think, in the aftermath, and there is a great deal in obviously
:08:40. > :08:44.Sunday Times about this, is that how much importance do you actually
:08:44. > :08:49.attach to this in the story of Syria. Mmm. A number of papers have
:08:49. > :08:53.run headlines this weekend saying: Syria is targeting journalists. She
:08:53. > :08:55.was a very brave reporter but there is a danger of us spending our
:08:55. > :09:00.entire time talking about reporters, rather than about what they are
:09:00. > :09:04.there to report. And someone - when I have been asked to define what is
:09:04. > :09:08.it like when you go there, you say: you are a foreigner who often
:09:08. > :09:12.doesn't understand the language, going into other people's rows.
:09:12. > :09:20.Therefore, you are hardly a welcome person often, even to the people you
:09:20. > :09:24.are among. You are more of a nosey parker, someone looking at our
:09:24. > :09:26.misery as well, so it is a difficult position and your significance is
:09:26. > :09:29.really seen at home, not in the countries you are in. Kelvin
:09:29. > :09:32.MacKenzie, you've picked up a story from The Observer I think which
:09:32. > :09:38.another light on this, as well? I think there are two
:09:38. > :09:41.of all the story in the Observer points out that Syria actually
:09:41. > :09:46.targeted journalists because they view them as the enemy, to start
:09:46. > :09:51.with. If, for instance, like Marie Colvin, she is giving TV
:09:51. > :09:55.a couple of days beforehand and I think a day before on the Today
:09:55. > :10:01.programme, then you don't have to be a geek spy genius to work out
:10:01. > :10:06.those signals are coming from. What's increasingly happening,
:10:06. > :10:11.only in Syria but around the world, is that journalists are becoming
:10:11. > :10:17.targets. One other aspect about this is about war reporting generally.
:10:17. > :10:21.This lady was whopping literally as shells were being - was reporting
:10:21. > :10:25.literally as shells were falling and she was in the middle of a red hot
:10:25. > :10:28.battle. My question is: why there at all? It was too dangerous
:10:28. > :10:33.for anybody to be there. People were dying all over the play, so why was
:10:33. > :10:38.she there when you could have a smartphone, given a smartphone or
:10:38. > :10:43.laptop given to the besieged people of Homs and they can fire out the
:10:43. > :10:47.video pictures, and the video pictures are more powerful than the
:10:47. > :10:51.written word, and that lady would not be dead today. I think there is
:10:51. > :10:58.a competitive factor by desks in TV organisations,
:10:58. > :11:02.- Pushing their people into places they shouldn't be? Saying we must
:11:02. > :11:05.get our people right in the middle of it. One point about this is
:11:05. > :11:09.of the reasons you send your own reporter is that you can verify and
:11:09. > :11:14.trust what they say. footage which recently came out of
:11:14. > :11:24.Syria was found to have been lifted from Bosnia 20 years ago.
:11:24. > :11:29.the kind of thing you've got. Then you need better research. People
:11:29. > :11:33.dying in increasing numbers and that lady's death could have been
:11:33. > :11:37.avoided. Nobody goes to get killed. You make a risk assessment all
:11:37. > :11:40.time and she was very good at it. Very good at it. When you go into
:11:40. > :11:44.dangerous places, do discard the notion that you might be
:11:44. > :11:47.killed yourself? Good God, no. You are thinking about it all the time?
:11:47. > :11:50.You realise that you are less prepared, not knowing the
:11:50. > :11:54.ground so well, you don't have any you are not protected by anything.
:11:54. > :11:58.You actually in some ways are more vulnerable because of your ignorance
:11:58. > :12:02.and with some people a lack experience. So yes, you are
:12:02. > :12:07.conscious of it, and you go as far as you can. I think the bottom line,
:12:07. > :12:11.and I talked to Marie years ago about this, is that you go
:12:11. > :12:16.you can in order to get back. Isn't the truth about
:12:16. > :12:21.matter that the word "press", which might have saved you 20 years ago is
:12:21. > :12:26.actually now going to attract bullets and shells? Because what is
:12:26. > :12:32.causing trouble for Assad is the coverage. Yes. His father
:12:32. > :12:35.had the coverage. The warlords have realised now the power of the mass
:12:35. > :12:39.media with their own people and internationally. It took several
:12:39. > :12:42.years for the penny to drop, particularly with I think television
:12:42. > :12:49.30, 40 years ago, that this could actually influence opinion. They
:12:49. > :12:52.all know that. So obviously there is increased hostility and dislike of
:12:52. > :12:57.this, but at the same time you to remember, if you don't go in
:12:57. > :13:01.there, they will manipulate and their own pictures out. You will
:13:02. > :13:11.get the story. Hold on a second, the BBC cover Homs
:13:11. > :13:15.right? If, for instance, The Times The Times covers Homs from 20 miles
:13:15. > :13:22.south. That doesn't mean they don't have good coverage. Some think we
:13:22. > :13:26.should be there, but let's move on to The Sun. As I understand it, only
:13:27. > :13:32.a week ago, Kelvin MacKenzie Kelvin MacKenzie - Rupert Murdoch
:13:32. > :13:38.and not Kelvin MacKenzie - I would like to be Rupert Murdoch, I must be
:13:38. > :13:44.honest. People said how quickly can you produce a Sun on Sunday, how is
:13:44. > :13:47.it going? He said here are some dummies, do it next week. And this
:13:47. > :13:51.is what they've come up have been working very fast to
:13:51. > :13:55.produce this paper. I think it's triumph for the editor, who is now a
:13:55. > :13:58.seven-day editor. It was bad enough being a six-day editor. It was a
:13:58. > :14:02.triumph for him and his staff for instance I know that all the
:14:02. > :14:06.staff all had to just come in on Saturdays and produce it, so all the
:14:06. > :14:10.contracts, all the writers they had to get, they just had to throw
:14:10. > :14:13.everything and the kitchen sink at it. It reads very much like a Sun
:14:13. > :14:18.on Wednesday or Thursday or or any other day of the week?
:14:19. > :14:23.think that's true. I think this is not trying to be the News of the
:14:23. > :14:28.World with The Sun logo on it, that's for sure. Now, personally I
:14:28. > :14:32.like sleaze on Sunday, I will be truthful, so I feel slightly robbed,
:14:32. > :14:35.but that's not the call for me. There is a real problem with
:14:35. > :14:38.tabloids at the moment because they are being well-behaved. Yes.
:14:38. > :14:47.sort of feel they have to be of the Leveson Inquiry, so what do
:14:47. > :14:49.they put in? It is preposterous, and I feel very sorry for being a
:14:49. > :14:53.tabloid journalist today where the very things which they have been
:14:53. > :14:58.doing very successfully for the last 30 or 40 years they are denied from
:14:58. > :15:02.doing. I'm not saying - I'm not coming here to defend phone hacking,
:15:02. > :15:05.I am here to defend paying public officials by the way. Because the
:15:05. > :15:08.people who have been arrested - Sun journalists have been arrested
:15:08. > :15:13.partly for that. I know. It's a disgrace, that. Do you think that
:15:13. > :15:18.the police are simply overcompensating for their own past
:15:18. > :15:21.misdemeanours? Yes, a very good point. Previously, instead of
:15:21. > :15:25.investigating clearly wrongdoings the News of the World which has cost
:15:25. > :15:31.loads of innocent people their jobs and loads of readers their
:15:31. > :15:34.particularly enjoyable Sunday mornings, has now been replaced by
:15:34. > :15:39.people wearing blue uniforms have some kind of new religion
:15:39. > :15:42.they are now pursuing everything. My suspicion is that many of those Sun
:15:42. > :15:45.journalists who have been arrested will never be charged with anything.
:15:45. > :15:50.Hang on, there's one point about I was watching last
:15:50. > :15:56.The Sun rolling off the presses, and if anybody bears some kind of
:15:56. > :15:59.responsibility where the buck stops, it's the proprietor of News
:16:00. > :16:03.International and there he was strutting his stuff in front of
:16:03. > :16:07.presses with a new newspaper last night. Am I the only one who finds
:16:08. > :16:11.that slightly odd? Probably. Thank you. No, the reality is we
:16:11. > :16:15.Rupert Murdoch in this country. He is a massive force for employment, a
:16:15. > :16:18.massive force for good and the of the matter is he is sitting
:16:18. > :16:23.on the pile in New York or Los Angeles and he has local managements
:16:23. > :16:28.to deal with everything. He cannot be held responsible for some nutcase
:16:28. > :16:33.of a private investigator phone hacking innocent people's phones.
:16:33. > :16:36.Is this Sun on Sunday going to sustain, is The Sun going to sustain
:16:36. > :16:40.given the welter of attacks do you think? Well, the welter of
:16:40. > :16:45.attacks haven't affected any of the circulation, be they advertising
:16:45. > :16:48.revenues or anything, but it's definitely affected - taking your
:16:48. > :16:52.point - it has definitely affected the courage and where the line is
:16:52. > :16:57.you are a tabloid journalist. If you are a young tabloid journalist, you
:16:57. > :17:00.are not going to take a risk anything and as well you know, Katy,
:17:00. > :17:07.even laying down your life, you are prepared as a journalist to take
:17:07. > :17:12.risk. I read The Sun this morning, looked at it, it just looked to me
:17:12. > :17:17.like a natter. papers, what you would say over the
:17:17. > :17:21.garden fence. There was nothing in it. What about other papers trying
:17:21. > :17:28.to respond today? It's a laugh, isn't it? The
:17:28. > :17:32.huge amount of circulation. I see the Star even hired Guido Fawkes.
:17:32. > :17:35.Actually they've got more political stories in them than The Sun's got.
:17:35. > :17:40.An interesting way of responding to that. Let's move on to another
:17:40. > :17:45.story. This is, a lot of the papers are looking at what I am sure
:17:45. > :17:51.going to be seen as a major in how life is run in this country
:17:51. > :17:54.when you get private firms over what the state used to do.
:17:54. > :17:59.There's - I think the best description of this, this Sunday, is
:17:59. > :18:05.in the Observer who have a double page spread saying: welfare,
:18:05. > :18:11.schools, prisons, higher education - this is after allegations made about
:18:11. > :18:15.A4e, trying to get people into jobs, that big firm, Emma Harrison, the
:18:15. > :18:17.multi-millionaire who was in charge of it, has resigned now. Nothing
:18:17. > :18:22.wrong with being a multi-millionaire, you know. You
:18:22. > :18:26.must stop that. You might know. The whole suggestion is that we are
:18:26. > :18:30.shifting into saying to people: here is a possibility of running things
:18:30. > :18:33.privately and of course you are going to make a profit, and there
:18:33. > :18:37.doesn't appear to be the scrutiny you would expect. I suppose the
:18:37. > :18:39.problem for the government is, if they think things were run badly in
:18:39. > :18:42.the public sector in the past and therefore the answer is to have
:18:42. > :18:47.run privately, people in the private sector are going to want to
:18:47. > :18:52.profit? Has it never occurred to you that if things are run badly
:18:52. > :18:57.improve things? Have you ever tried to improve anything run by trade
:18:57. > :19:01.unions? It's very hard. Moving on, our agriculture
:19:01. > :19:08.MacKenzie with the Sunday Telegraph. A lot of sadness about thousands of
:19:08. > :19:11.lambs have been killed by a new virus threatening the survival of
:19:11. > :19:17.British farms, and I agree it's terrible but for a lamb it's
:19:17. > :19:21.much of a life anyway, gone within six months onto our dining table.
:19:21. > :19:26.Is it hard to get a farming story onto the front page? At the Sun
:19:26. > :19:30.apart from NATO I can't think of any story more likely not to sell
:19:30. > :19:34.papers. Quickly this story about the scarf at the airport, a man
:19:34. > :19:41.arrested for making a joke about head scarf? A man was wearing
:19:41. > :19:47.scarf and he put it down in the as he put it through one of the
:19:47. > :19:53.x-rays at the airport and he saw a Muslim woman with a head scarf go
:19:53. > :19:57.through unimpeded. He said light heartedly, if I was wearing this in
:19:57. > :20:02.front of my face I wonder what would happen. He was accused about racism
:20:02. > :20:06.and held at the airport. This is about freedom of speech and I
:20:06. > :20:11.it really matters. Can we make that nobody in this country makes
:20:11. > :20:13.jokes, you certainly must not make jokes of that kind in this country
:20:13. > :20:17.anymore. Thank you very much indeed for that. This has been a very
:20:17. > :20:21.strange winter, hasn't it? Soaring temperatures a few days ago, a
:20:21. > :20:30.or is there more to come? Let's find out from Chris Fawkes in the weather
:20:30. > :20:34.Hello, you might get a sense of deja Hello, you might get a sense of deja
:20:34. > :20:40.vu actually with more high temperatures to come. Finally we are
:20:40. > :20:43.emerging from murky skies across Channel Islands. For Northern
:20:43. > :20:46.Ireland, the northwest of and Scotland, it will stay
:20:46. > :20:51.predominantly cloudy today and that cloud will be thick enough to give
:20:51. > :20:55.us a few occasional spots of rain or drizzle, not amounting
:20:55. > :20:58.too much and it will feel pleasant enough with light winds. Highs
:20:58. > :21:01.reaching 12C, still on the side. Overnight it turns cloudier
:21:01. > :21:04.with patchy rain across and west. Maybe some hill
:21:04. > :21:10.patches as well. More general rain turning up in Western Scotland
:21:10. > :21:17.towards the end of the night and exceptionally mild night. These
:21:17. > :21:21.temperatures we expect daytime February . A cloudy start, general
:21:21. > :21:24.rain settling Northern Ireland and this band of
:21:24. > :21:28.heavier rain will then swing into northern England and North Wales
:21:28. > :21:32.we go into the afternoon. will be a mild day and it gets even
:21:32. > :21:34.milder with the peak of warmth coming on Tuesday when across
:21:34. > :21:39.northeast England and Scotland temperatures could reach
:21:39. > :21:42.or 18C, and that's not too far from the all-time UK
:21:42. > :21:47.temperature record, so we've got more of that extremely warm
:21:47. > :21:50.on the way across the northeast Tuesday. Back to you, Andrew.
:21:50. > :21:54.Remarkable, thank you, Chris. The Remarkable, thank you, Chris. The
:21:54. > :21:57.Royal Bank of Scotland. 83% owned by me, and by you, and by all of
:21:57. > :22:01.other taxpayers, has been in spotlight again
:22:01. > :22:05.announcement of its annual with losses of �2 billion. In RBS
:22:05. > :22:10.terms that's actually quite a small figure. Its balance sheet was once
:22:10. > :22:13.much bigger than the entire UK economy, so its crash was
:22:13. > :22:17.spectacular and only a huge injection of public money saved
:22:17. > :22:22.from becoming one of the biggest corporate failures in history.
:22:22. > :22:26.RBS chief executive, Stephen Hester, has become one of the public faces
:22:26. > :22:30.of banking in this country and when we met we discussed an
:22:30. > :22:35.which many people now revile but first discussed his five-year plan
:22:35. > :22:41.to clean up RBS. Effectively got two different jobs at RBS
:22:41. > :22:45.wrapped up into one. The first job is to run a huge but normal bank
:22:45. > :22:49.competing against Barclays, HSBC, serving 13 million customers,
:22:49. > :22:55.pretty big job in and of itself, that's only one of our two jobs. The
:22:55. > :23:01.other is to take what I described as the biggest time-bomb
:23:01. > :23:05.ever put on a bank balance sheet and dismantle it safely, and to do that
:23:05. > :23:09.whilst removing the danger to the British economy and to RBS itself.
:23:09. > :23:12.In terms of removing the stuff you don't want, the gelignite from the
:23:12. > :23:16.time-bomb, you've taken out bit more of it at this stage than
:23:16. > :23:21.you thought you might have done? That is right. So actually across
:23:21. > :23:25.both jobs the, the good bank where the government has �45 billion and
:23:25. > :23:29.the bad bank where we are trying to defuse the time-bomb, we are
:23:29. > :23:32.of where we thought we the end of three years. I am afraid
:23:32. > :23:36.that also says that we started very deep hole that we are digging
:23:36. > :23:39.out of because the job not finished and there's a kind of
:23:39. > :23:43.Alice in Wonderland feel to Alice in Wonderland feel to
:23:43. > :23:47.that ironically the faster we go the bigger the losses are, but you are
:23:47. > :23:50.avoiding losses in the future would have come if you hadn't
:23:51. > :23:54.dismantled it. What kind of bank would you like RBS to be at the end
:23:54. > :24:01.of this process? I think you think it may take a little bit longer than
:24:01. > :24:04.five years to get there now, would you want it to be what most
:24:04. > :24:07.people watching would see as ordinary bank whose job was to give
:24:07. > :24:12.mortgages to ordinary people and small businesses, and to lend money
:24:12. > :24:17.to businesses and help them to money for other people? I want it to
:24:17. > :24:19.be a really good ordinary bank. Yes. So it's got to start with
:24:20. > :24:25.doing a great job for our customers. All businesses have to do
:24:25. > :24:28.all businesses say that. We make sure we really do do it it and
:24:28. > :24:32.then we have to be valuable because �45 billion is a lot of shares that
:24:32. > :24:37.we have to persuade other investors to want to buy from the government.
:24:37. > :24:40.So we have to make good profits as well. In terms of my 45 billion
:24:40. > :24:45.that I have put into your bank, do you think my chances are of
:24:45. > :24:50.getting all of that back? I that RBS will recover, we are well
:24:50. > :24:53.on that route. And that there will in time be good opportunities for
:24:53. > :24:57.the government to sell its shares and get the money back.
:24:57. > :25:02.has been argued very Lord Myners and others that it would
:25:02. > :25:05.be better for the government to accept a loss on that 45 billion and
:25:05. > :25:11.start to move the shares off into the market.
:25:11. > :25:15.the market, rather than carry on an endless process of great political
:25:15. > :25:18.focus on this particular bank. Well, I certainly think that
:25:18. > :25:22.sale of the government's shares take quite a few years and have to
:25:22. > :25:28.happen in several different because the amount is simply
:25:29. > :25:32.much to do in one go, and so it's natural that the first price at
:25:32. > :25:36.which you sell will be lower the last price. Over time, each time
:25:36. > :25:40.you sell, hopefully you will sell at higher prices and what obviously
:25:40. > :25:44.matters is the average across the whole exercise rather than where you
:25:44. > :25:48.started. So the first lot may a loss to start with? It's the
:25:48. > :25:52.government's job to decide at what price they sell; it's my job to try
:25:52. > :25:58.and create an investable out of RBS, that there are people
:25:58. > :26:03.who actually might want to buy these shares. Yes. I do think that the
:26:03. > :26:06.first sale by the government will increase the value of the rest of
:26:06. > :26:12.the holding because investors, when they see that the government is
:26:12. > :26:15.actually selling, when they see RBS - have more confidence. - is
:26:15. > :26:18.again a private sector company being run in a way that investors will
:26:18. > :26:21.want it to be run - I think that will give them confidence and help
:26:21. > :26:25.the whole thing, and help RBS. do you think now about Fred Goodwin?
:26:25. > :26:32.He created the time-bomb that you are defusing. And he must
:26:32. > :26:36.share of accountability, but I also think that there is often
:26:36. > :26:43.over-demonisation in British life in general, and I think that we
:26:43. > :26:48.have to understand that the recession of 2008 was global, it was
:26:48. > :26:52.caused by many mistakes in many sectors of the economy; in fact, by
:26:52. > :26:54.economic mismanagement as well as by banking misment, and so there
:26:54. > :26:59.many cooks in that particular kitchen and Fred is not
:26:59. > :27:05.one. And yet there was this mood of swagger and hubris at the time in
:27:05. > :27:08.the banking. There was a sort of madness in the system, wasn't there?
:27:08. > :27:12.We could say the had some of that because we
:27:12. > :27:17.we were expanding and we had abolished boom and bust and so forth
:27:17. > :27:22.and it turned out not to be so, the same for banking. That's why
:27:22. > :27:26.there are a series of changes that need to be made in
:27:26. > :27:30.banks as well as of course financial reforms. Do you speak to
:27:30. > :27:36.Goodwin about this? I haven't but I don't have anything against Fred.
:27:36. > :27:42.Everybody else does. My job is to look forward. The investment side
:27:42. > :27:45.of your business, bonuses went by roughly speaking a quarter, or
:27:45. > :27:52.total remuneration went down by roughly speaking a quarter, but
:27:52. > :27:56.their losses doubled. What bonus? Actually, profits went down,
:27:56. > :28:00.so there was still 1.6 billion, they went down, and of course if profits
:28:00. > :28:03.go down bonuses should go down, they did. But should there be any
:28:03. > :28:08.bonuses if profits go down in most people's world a bonus is
:28:08. > :28:12.something you get for extraordinary achievement. You have done something
:28:12. > :28:15.very special. And it seems to an awful lot of people out there that
:28:15. > :28:19.bonuses in the world of banking is something at a certain level you
:28:19. > :28:22.simply for turning up? Throughout society, not just in banking - the
:28:22. > :28:26.amounts of money I accept are in banking - people are paid
:28:26. > :28:30.incentives. If you sell encyclopaedias, you might be paid
:28:30. > :28:36.more if you sell more encyclopaedias, so there are pay
:28:36. > :28:40.structures that are built up to have good people who will do the two jobs
:28:40. > :28:45.we've got and then too pay you like, the rate for the job,
:28:45. > :28:51.need to make sure there is a good linkage between success and pay,
:28:51. > :28:55.I am determined to do that. You don't fear an anti-business,
:28:55. > :29:02.anti-banking mood in the being picked up by politicians,
:29:02. > :29:06.hitting highly paid people heavily enough that they don't come to the
:29:06. > :29:10.City and they go to live and work New York or Geneva
:29:10. > :29:15.instead? I do fear that. We've seen it in some of the controversies
:29:15. > :29:20.around RBS. I think there is a real risk that this country forget that
:29:20. > :29:24.job number one is to get the economy growing and only when we've done
:29:24. > :29:32.that should we be squabbling how to divide up the
:29:32. > :29:35.that growth. What about returning to politics the Vickers Commission's
:29:35. > :29:40.proposals to break up banks? concerned about that?
:29:40. > :29:44.to have a radical effect on the shape of banking in this country. I
:29:44. > :29:47.would say two things about this. It was very clear in 2008,
:29:47. > :29:52.course sitting on top of the biggest, if you like, exploding
:29:52. > :29:57.bank, I see this particularly clearly, that banks needed
:29:57. > :30:03.fundamental reform. The important thing is to make banks not
:30:03. > :30:07.too big to fail, to stop the big to fail" worry and argument.
:30:07. > :30:09.Vickers Commission, in a whole range of its proposals, contributes to
:30:09. > :30:13.that positive direction. There are some things in the Vickers
:30:13. > :30:17.Commission I don't agree with. I think don't contribute to the
:30:17. > :30:22.argument and will make banks less valuable without increasing safety.
:30:22. > :30:26.Such as? But the topic as a whole, the topic as a whole of making banks
:30:26. > :30:30.safer, even if it costs banks money, is in society's interest
:30:30. > :30:37.should do it. Robert Peston, who knows a thing or two about these
:30:37. > :30:41.things, I understand, says that - his blog he said that in the end the
:30:41. > :30:47.verdict on RBS at the moment is they are not going to bankrupt us again,
:30:47. > :30:53.you know, that's good news, but we probably won't get back the full
:30:53. > :30:59.value of the 45 billion that the taxpayer has put in. Well, Robert is
:30:59. > :31:04.very wise and I will disagree him as to only 50%. I do think that
:31:04. > :31:08.the taxpayer can get its money back, it will be longer and
:31:08. > :31:12.had hoped - that's a function of economy being more difficult and new
:31:12. > :31:14.taxes and new regulation, - but that's what we are focused on
:31:15. > :31:19.and I think it's really for this country that we succeed.
:31:19. > :31:24.You are obviously a tough fellow. you regret taking on this job, given
:31:24. > :31:27.the huge public exposure it you under? I hate the public
:31:27. > :31:33.exposure, I wish I wasn't sitting here talking to you or
:31:33. > :31:38.I needed to, but instead I got where I did get in the business world,
:31:39. > :31:43.you say, by being determined and I'm very clear there's a prize out here.
:31:43. > :31:46.It's a prize for the it's also for me: recovering RBS.
:31:46. > :31:50.At any point did you really about throwing in the towel? Sure,
:31:50. > :31:53.lots of times. Did you go home and think: I can't take
:31:53. > :31:57.this? Lots of disappointments in life and
:31:57. > :32:01.difficulties. I don't set apart in some way. I have mine,
:32:01. > :32:05.other people have their own. I have decided, at least as it relates to
:32:05. > :32:09.this latest episode, the most constructive thing is to prove
:32:09. > :32:13.critics wrong, help RBS to recover and I think that is to everyone's
:32:14. > :32:16.gain. You have your towel are you going to see this through?
:32:16. > :32:22.I hope so. Stephen Hester, you very much indeed.
:32:22. > :32:25.Actress Celia Imrie is one of Actress Celia Imrie is one of
:32:25. > :32:27.Britain's best-loved television and theatre actors. You will remember
:32:27. > :32:32.her from Victoria Wood sketches as Acorn Antiques and she has been
:32:32. > :32:36.regular success in London's West and she is heading that way again
:32:37. > :32:40.next month in a splendid Old Vic revival of Michael Frayn's
:32:40. > :32:43.theatrical comedy, Noises Off. Actress Celia Imrie is also starring
:32:43. > :32:47.in a new Marigold Hotel, appearing
:32:47. > :32:51.Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, Bill Nighy and many more. Once again, it's a
:32:51. > :32:56.comedy with a message about ageing. Actress Celia Imrie, welcome.
:32:56. > :33:01.you. Let's start talking about Michael Frayn play, which is a sort
:33:01. > :33:04.of classic British farce been taken apart, and it looks at
:33:04. > :33:11.what's going on in the lives of the actors performing the farce as well?
:33:11. > :33:15.Yes. Well, it's brilliant because the play teaches you the rather -
:33:15. > :33:19.this rather ropey farce called Nothing On, and it teaches you that
:33:19. > :33:24.because you see us in rehearsal. Which is sort of trousers falling
:33:24. > :33:28.down and - yes, don't people love people taking their trousers off?
:33:28. > :33:33.They do. The noise when Carl's trousers fall down is just so
:33:33. > :33:42.fantastic every single night, so see us in rehearsal, then you see us
:33:42. > :33:47.in Act 2 backstage and all the shenanigans and by the third act you
:33:47. > :33:53.know the play so well you can see the mistakes we are making all
:33:53. > :33:57.way through. It is fast. It must be exhausting to
:33:57. > :34:01.actually do. It is, except that your laughter refuels us. I promise
:34:01. > :34:06.you, that really is true. It was hell to rehearse. Nobody will mind
:34:06. > :34:13.me saying that, because it was sort of,
:34:13. > :34:17.sort of, finnicerty. You have to be to the second all the way through.
:34:17. > :34:22.Yes, and if you are not you are in terrible trouble from everyone else.
:34:22. > :34:26.But an enormous well of laughter from the audience. Mmm.
:34:26. > :34:34.think one of the most successful Vic plays ever in terms
:34:34. > :34:38.transferring - Apparently, it's the first transfer apparently so I hope
:34:38. > :34:47.Kevin Spacey is pleased with us. To hear the laughter is like heaven.
:34:47. > :34:52.It is a tribute to the whole Brian Ricks tradition of farce which
:34:52. > :34:57.filled theatres up and down this country for 30 years. Absolutely. I
:34:57. > :35:02.remember them as a child actually, and it's the old joke, the joke of
:35:02. > :35:06.three and the trousers falling down, and the slapstick. You can't
:35:06. > :35:11.wrong actually. It's a brilliant play. They are plays which could be
:35:11. > :35:16.tragedies except they are funny all the way through so it's all right.
:35:17. > :35:21.They are about adultery and potential disaster but - Yes,
:35:21. > :35:26.also the actors that are involved it - I mean, I'm of an age where I
:35:26. > :35:30.want to put something by and buy little cottage. They are sort of on
:35:30. > :35:34.their beam ends a bit, they are not top notch actors, it's all
:35:34. > :35:39.tough for them so the situations are quite hard, which means that, you
:35:39. > :35:45.know, the hilarity is better if there's some sort of rooting in
:35:45. > :35:50.grimness too. It's a super play. Talking about great actors,
:35:50. > :35:53.Talking about great actors, Exotic Marigold Hotel has virtually
:35:53. > :35:56.every really famous British actor of a certain age you've ever heard of.
:35:56. > :36:01.I know. We will see a clip second but beforehand, just
:36:02. > :36:05.to us what the basic idea is. Really, it's an alternative to
:36:05. > :36:12.staying in this country and growing old, and each of the seven
:36:12. > :36:16.individual people find on the internet this hotel and think what a
:36:16. > :36:21.marvellous idea, because is this it? They don't want England to be it,
:36:21. > :36:26.let's take a chance and go to India. Let's have a look at a moment
:36:26. > :36:30.How long have I waited for this How long have I waited for this
:36:30. > :36:36.moment to present to you in honour of your arrival, a special
:36:36. > :36:43.British roast for you all, cooked lovingly by myself and my
:36:43. > :36:51.loyalist helper and friend. what? A wonderful taste of
:36:51. > :36:54.Not everything goes according to Not everything goes according to
:36:54. > :36:59.plan it should be said in but it's a kind of warm film,
:36:59. > :37:04.it? In any case you go to India for an hour and a half and that,
:37:04. > :37:10.honestly, is bliss. It is. What it like filming? You wrote not only
:37:10. > :37:13.an autobiography but a diary of filming of it? I did. The heat was
:37:13. > :37:17.excruciating but that was down bit and we had wonderful young
:37:17. > :37:21.men helping us with umbrellas the minute we stepped out of the car. It
:37:21. > :37:25.was like a dream,an rue. If somebody told me I had dreamt it I would have
:37:25. > :37:29.to believe them. It was that good. How lovely. The serious theme is
:37:29. > :37:34.we treat older people because people are still sexual and they've got
:37:34. > :37:40.hope for the future and there's romance and optimism and stuff,
:37:40. > :37:44.yet these are people who, in many cases, in this country their
:37:44. > :37:47.families who are put into homes - I know, it's ghastly. I know I
:37:47. > :37:51.will probably get into trouble and I know people do their very best in
:37:51. > :37:54.old people's homes but to tell you the honest truth I've never been to
:37:54. > :37:58.a nice one, not really. I know they try their best but it's very grim,
:37:58. > :38:02.the whole idea of hold people's homes in this country, I think, and
:38:02. > :38:08.so what a marvellous alternative, just leap and take the
:38:09. > :38:14.- Because the truth is most will end up in one probably. What a
:38:14. > :38:19.horrible thought, isn't it? we end up in an exotic hotel
:38:19. > :38:22.somewhere in somewhere in Rajasthan. What
:38:22. > :38:25.marvellous idea. Celia Imrie.
:38:25. > :38:28.Back to Syria which is holding a referendum on a new constitution
:38:28. > :38:30.today amid continuing violent unrest and a boycott by the opposition.
:38:30. > :38:32.a moment I will be speaking International Development
:38:32. > :38:37.International a moment I will be speaking to
:38:37. > :38:45.Andrew Mitchell about the situation but first in Homs the Red Cross has
:38:45. > :38:50.been try to correct more people trapped in - trying to help people
:38:50. > :38:55.trapped. It also wants to recover the bodies of two journalists who
:38:55. > :38:58.were killed last week. I spoke to Red Cross spokesman and asked him to
:38:58. > :39:03.bring me up-to-date with going on. Yesterday and last night
:39:03. > :39:07.unfortunately, although we have had - we had been negotiating
:39:07. > :39:13.- we had been negotiating with the parties concerned, and that is
:39:13. > :39:21.mainly the Syrian authorities and members of opposition inside Baba
:39:21. > :39:29.Amr, to enter the neighbourhood and evacuate people, unfortunately these
:39:29. > :39:39.negotiations did not come to positive conclusion and hence
:39:39. > :39:45.were no evacuations last night. I can tell you is that the Syrian
:39:45. > :39:51.Red Crescent are continuing to negotiate with both sides
:39:51. > :39:55.will be continuing to enter Baba and trying to save people who
:39:55. > :39:58.to be saved. We are talking about lives here. There has been a lot of
:39:58. > :40:01.comment here about Marie Colvin, of course, the very brave foreign
:40:01. > :40:05.correspondent for who was killed, and getting her body
:40:05. > :40:09.out of Homs. Presumably, however, you are more concerned with the
:40:09. > :40:14.living than with people who have died already? Well, we are
:40:14. > :40:21.interested in everything. We are interested in getting the bodies of
:40:21. > :40:26.the two journalists inside. We are interested in getting people who are
:40:26. > :40:32.injured outside, whether Syrian or non-Syrian. This is what we do. We
:40:32. > :40:37.don't really distinguish among people since this is strictly a
:40:37. > :40:39.humanitarian mission. Rather bizarrely perhaps, there are
:40:39. > :40:44.elections taking place. going to give you an
:40:44. > :40:52.you think, for things to calm down, to get medicines in, to get people
:40:52. > :40:55.out? I don't think it has to that. We are able to deliver
:40:55. > :41:01.humanitarian assistance and medicines to Homs. There is no lack
:41:01. > :41:07.of medicines, there is no food. The difficulty is to be
:41:07. > :41:12.to access the specific areas where it has been too
:41:12. > :41:20.it has been too dangerous for Red Cross and volunteers to go. If we
:41:20. > :41:24.can do it then I hope we can sure we can take as much assistance
:41:24. > :41:32.as is needed for people living these neighbourhoods, and
:41:32. > :41:38.able to evacuate as many people as need to be evacuated. We are ready,
:41:38. > :41:42.the RC and Syrian Red Crescent joint teams that are waiting to do
:41:42. > :41:48.just that. Good luck. Our thoughts are with you.
:41:48. > :41:49.I am joined now by the International I am joined now by the International
:41:49. > :41:50.Development Secretary Andrew Development Secretary Andrew
:41:50. > :41:56.I am joined Mitchell. Welcome. Good morning.
:41:56. > :42:00.You, I think, have been talking the ICRC at the highest level.
:42:00. > :42:07.What's the mood there about this terrible situation in Homs? Well,
:42:07. > :42:10.the situation is extremely bleak. I spoke to the head of the
:42:10. > :42:15.International Red Cross in Geneva last night and the problem is
:42:15. > :42:23.there is very limited access, it's extremely difficult for the ICRC and
:42:23. > :42:27.the Syrian Red Crescent to on the ground and extremely
:42:27. > :42:30.difficult too for them to get out. We have been speaking about
:42:30. > :42:35.the journalists who have been killed and caught up in all this but of
:42:35. > :42:38.course a lot of people there not journalists, who are injured and
:42:38. > :42:40.desperately need help. There is evidence on the ground of
:42:40. > :42:47.journalists very bravely prioritising women with
:42:47. > :42:53.have been caught up in the fighting and wounded, saying they should
:42:53. > :42:58.helped out first. There is also evidence of people infiltrating
:42:58. > :43:06.Red Crescent who are not part of the Red Crescent, and also you have
:43:06. > :43:09.evidence of people who have been treated who have then been beaten up
:43:09. > :43:12.afterwards, so the situation on the ground is extremely dangerous and
:43:12. > :43:16.difficult. To follow that up, people who are trapped are worried
:43:16. > :43:23.that, if they try to get out, they will simply be grabbed by Assad's
:43:23. > :43:28.people and beaten up, or worse? There is evidence on the ground
:43:29. > :43:37.Red Crescent people have been posing as such who are not in fact
:43:37. > :43:41.Crescent so it's very difficult for the International Red Cross.
:43:41. > :43:49.morning some 20,000 families are being fed thanks to British support,
:43:49. > :43:55.support that we channel through the International Red Cross down to
:43:55. > :43:58.Red Crescent. What is the government doing to try to help with
:43:58. > :44:02.retrieving the bodies of Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik? We
:44:02. > :44:05.doing everything we can. been negotiations with the Syrian
:44:05. > :44:08.authorities. Our ambassador in Damascus is engaged in trying to do
:44:08. > :44:12.just that. Is there any kind of connection or conversation
:44:12. > :44:18.happening? It's extremely and the conversations are patchy.
:44:18. > :44:21.You've seen in Tunis an effort by nearly 70 countries to try and bring
:44:21. > :44:26.some order to this desperate situation. This is an evil
:44:26. > :44:30.which has turned its guns on its own people. It's despicable what is
:44:30. > :44:34.happening and we will hold them to account in every way we can for
:44:34. > :44:38.human rights abuses on. A lot of people will say:
:44:38. > :44:40.around that part of the world, never mind more widely, there are lots of
:44:40. > :44:45.wealthy and very, very well armed countries who are outraged
:44:45. > :44:51.what is happening in Syria. Is there nothing more that can be done
:44:51. > :44:53.to arm rebels or even to start to put people in? We need to stop the
:44:53. > :44:58.fighting, not boost it in any way at all. The
:44:58. > :45:01.is that the Assad regime should sit down and negotiate a Syrian-led,
:45:01. > :45:03.Syrian-owned solution to the problems inside Syria. The
:45:03. > :45:06.international community would support that very strongly.
:45:06. > :45:11.trouble is, of course, that the international community is not
:45:11. > :45:14.speaking with one voice because of the action taken in the Security
:45:14. > :45:18.Council, particularly by the Russians. There seems very
:45:19. > :45:23.that can be done about that, but is also a part of this a fear on the
:45:23. > :45:27.part of the British government and others about what might follow the
:45:27. > :45:30.collapse, the disorderly collapse of the Assad regime? In other words,
:45:30. > :45:35.just because they are rebels mean they are all good guys
:45:35. > :45:38.want to see running Syria? Well, everything that we are doing is to
:45:38. > :45:42.attempt to secure a proper political process in which all the different
:45:42. > :45:46.parties in Syria can join, to an end to the bloodshed and violence
:45:46. > :45:50.which characterises Syria today. Is there any possibility, do you think,
:45:50. > :45:54.where we will see outside troops under UN flags or whatever, going
:45:55. > :45:57.into Syria? I don't think that is the answer. I don't think it's
:45:58. > :46:01.remotely practical at the moment. I think the key thing is to stop the
:46:01. > :46:05.fighting and to get the different parties to negotiate, and above
:46:05. > :46:08.it is Assad who bears the responsibility for effecting that.
:46:08. > :46:11.Just finally on Homs, where so much of the worst stuff seems to be
:46:11. > :46:11.happening, any chance of pushing kind of Rafael
:46:11. > :46:12.happening, any chance of pushing a kind
:46:12. > :46:13.happening, any chance of pushing a kind of
:46:13. > :46:17.happening, any chance of pushing a kind of corridor
:46:17. > :46:21.kind of corridor in there, to aid to go in and the wounded and
:46:21. > :46:25.desperate to get out? Well, that is what we are demanding. We are
:46:25. > :46:28.demanding unfettered access for the humanitarian agencies who are
:46:28. > :46:32.on the ground. These are enormously brave people, these aid workers
:46:32. > :46:35.are working in Homs, and they are needs-based. They are not taking
:46:36. > :46:40.sides. They are seeking to help those who are caught up and wounded
:46:40. > :46:44.in the fighting, many of whom are very young children. We demand
:46:44. > :46:47.unfettered access for them can carry out this vital work.
:46:47. > :46:53.you hearing anything back at all from the Syrians about this,
:46:53. > :46:55.government? The condition is very confused for reasons that I said.
:46:55. > :46:59.People don't authorities at all and there's very
:46:59. > :47:03.strong evidence why they trust them but we continue to push
:47:03. > :47:07.in every way we possibly can for this unfettered access and
:47:07. > :47:11.for dialogue and a political process to begin as soon as possible. Let
:47:11. > :47:15.me ask you about the other conference of the weekend which was
:47:15. > :47:19.Somalia. Many people ask, given the problems around the world,
:47:19. > :47:24.Britain is hosting yet another conference on Somalia. Has it
:47:24. > :47:26.achieved much? I think there is the possibility that Somalia will turn
:47:26. > :47:33.the page as a result of the processes set in place at the
:47:33. > :47:35.conference. We want a Somalian-owned and led and directed process on the
:47:35. > :47:37.ground, supported by all the regional powers and by
:47:37. > :47:42.international community and United Nations, and there is some
:47:42. > :47:49.evidence that that will happen, we should be very clear. I see
:47:49. > :47:53.extraordinary article - Well, The Observer alleges on its front page
:47:53. > :47:58.splash story is that behind all of this is a secret high stakes dash
:47:58. > :48:04.for oil in Somalia and that British companies and the British government
:48:04. > :48:07.basically want Somali oil and what is behind this conference? I
:48:07. > :48:10.award the journalist who wrote that story the prize for the most cynical
:48:10. > :48:14.piece this century. The engagement in Somalia was led by
:48:14. > :48:18.we were all of us in the Cabinet appalled at the dreadful effects
:48:18. > :48:21.the famine where tens of of children under five were starving
:48:21. > :48:25.to death as a result of what was going on in Somalia, and a
:48:26. > :48:29.determination by the British government to play its part in
:48:29. > :48:33.trying to bring order and stability to a very disadvantaged
:48:33. > :48:36.difficult part of the world. That is why the Prime Minister called the
:48:37. > :48:40.conference. It was, I think, the right time to do it, and we did it
:48:40. > :48:46.because we are horrified by dreadful effects of the famine, the
:48:46. > :48:51.lives of people in Somalia, where a girl is more likely to die having a
:48:51. > :48:55.baby than to complete her primary schooling, but also, of course,
:48:56. > :48:58.Somalia, in all its dysfunctionality is a threat to - So there's
:48:58. > :49:02.commercial imperative this? There is none whatsoever. Of
:49:02. > :49:05.course, if oil is found and developed, we want that oil to
:49:06. > :49:09.for the benefit of the Somali people, but the British government's
:49:09. > :49:12.development efforts are engaged to make sure that the money is
:49:12. > :49:16.accounted for, spent transparently and works for the benefit of
:49:16. > :49:20.Somalis. Quite a lot Conservative MPs rather resent the
:49:20. > :49:25.fact that your department is kind of buffered and proofed against the
:49:25. > :49:27.cuts that are happening elsewhere, and ask whether all the money is
:49:27. > :49:31.being well spent, and have pointing particularly to
:49:31. > :49:35.that the Indians don't actually the aid that we are giving them and,
:49:35. > :49:38.after all, India is a country which apparently can afford more and more
:49:38. > :49:41.nuclear weapons, a space programme and all the rest of it. Why should
:49:41. > :49:46.we be giving money to India? Let me make it clear first of all that in
:49:46. > :49:48.the very difficult economic circumstances which the coalition
:49:48. > :49:52.inherited, of course this is a difficult argument. We think it's
:49:52. > :49:57.the right thing to do, we think it's part of Britain's DNA to be
:49:57. > :49:59.to people who are in very extreme circumstances, and of course our
:49:59. > :50:04.development budget transformed there has literally been
:50:04. > :50:08.revolution in the way Britain aid and development - transformed to
:50:08. > :50:13.focus first of all on conflict, which is the key incubator
:50:13. > :50:17.poverty, and then on the fact it is economic growth and the
:50:17. > :50:21.private sector that - and entrepreneurialism which
:50:21. > :50:23.people to lift them out of poverty. But surely it should be for the
:50:23. > :50:28.relatively wealthy now government to deal with Indian
:50:28. > :50:31.problems; not for us? Well, the Indian programme has been
:50:31. > :50:35.transformed. This is the first year since the Second World War where
:50:35. > :50:39.India is not our largest programme. We focus only on the very poorest
:50:39. > :50:42.areas. Half of the Indian development budget now goes
:50:42. > :50:46.private sector investment which the characteristics of a
:50:46. > :50:49.wealth fund so that is from Britain but for Britain as
:50:49. > :50:54.well, and India has one of the largest antipoverty programmes in
:50:54. > :50:59.the world. Our technical assistance has assisted Indian money and Indian
:50:59. > :51:02.funding, which is more than 95% all the funding, to get
:51:02. > :51:07.children into school in the last five years. Which is wonderful. I
:51:07. > :51:12.don't understand the propoor thing. Does that mean it is investment
:51:12. > :51:18.will come back to Britain? Investment in what? We are trying
:51:18. > :51:24.to ensure through organisations like CDC, other funds as well, where
:51:24. > :51:27.British taxpayer's money is deployed, where we invest in the
:51:27. > :51:31.private sector in driving up standards. This is an investment
:51:31. > :51:37.which comes back to the UK through many of the characteristics of a
:51:37. > :51:41.sovereign wealth fund. It's an investment in pro-poor trading and -
:51:41. > :51:44.these are small businesses? These are small and medium enterprises,
:51:44. > :51:48.these are social funds, but they come back to the United Kingdom
:51:48. > :51:52.an increasing extent in our and that is good for prosperity in
:51:52. > :51:57.India and good for prosperity in Britain. After all, our children
:51:57. > :52:01.have come into a world of work where they don't get the pensions that
:52:01. > :52:06.their forebears got, where they to pay for their own education,
:52:06. > :52:09.where they see an enormous mountain of debt. The development budget
:52:09. > :52:13.an investment in the future prosperity of countries like India.
:52:13. > :52:17.It's also an investment in our prosperity and it offers a chance in
:52:17. > :52:21.what will be one of the the biggest markets in the world for the next
:52:21. > :52:24.generation to really gain from All right. Let me turn finally to a
:52:24. > :52:29.domestic story. If you go the papers one-by-one today,
:52:29. > :52:34.virtually all say roughly the same thing which is that the health bill
:52:34. > :52:37.will go through but that Andrew Lansley has failed to sell it
:52:37. > :52:40.properly and is in deep, political trouble with the Prime
:52:40. > :52:43.Minister. I think anyone who knows and has worked with the
:52:43. > :52:46.Minister and Andrew Lansley knows their deep and abiding love
:52:46. > :52:49.respect and commitment to National Health Service.
:52:49. > :52:52.think there's anyone in politics who has spent as much
:52:52. > :52:57.has spent as much time in understanding the NHS as Andrew
:52:57. > :53:02.Lansley has done. These have hardly been well-sold reforms, have they?
:53:02. > :53:05.People don't understand them at I think all of us, not just Andrew
:53:05. > :53:10.Lansley, have to understand why these reforms are taking place
:53:10. > :53:14.but these stem from an absolute and Health Service, to making it
:53:14. > :53:19.and to ensure that when people are living much longer, which is great,
:53:19. > :53:25.where the cost of medicines is increasing, we get 100p out of every
:53:25. > :53:30.pound of text pairs' money that we spend. You can tell there is some
:53:31. > :53:33.sort of operation against the Health Secretary going on in the papers?
:53:33. > :53:37.have nothing but respect for Health Secretary, he spent five
:53:37. > :53:42.years in opposition working out to make the NHS better. All of us
:53:42. > :53:44.have to be better at selling these reform. All right, Andrew Mitchell,
:53:44. > :53:46.thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. Now over to
:53:46. > :53:50.the news headlines. And
:53:50. > :53:55.secretary Andrew Mitchell has told this programme that the government
:53:55. > :53:58.is doing everything possible to help rescue journalists trapped in Homs.
:53:58. > :54:01.He said the government was negotiating with the
:54:01. > :54:05.authorities but acknowledged the conversations were "patchy". He
:54:05. > :54:11.called on President Assad's government to allow aid agencies
:54:11. > :54:15.unfettered access to help civilians. The new Sun on Sunday, the first
:54:15. > :54:18.national Sunday newspaper to be launched in the last 20 years in, is
:54:18. > :54:21.on sale this morning, published by News International following
:54:21. > :54:24.closure of News of the World. The former Sun editor, Kelvin MacKenzie,
:54:24. > :54:28.told this programme that the paper would not be taking risks. If you
:54:28. > :54:32.are a young tabloid journalist you are not going to take a risk on
:54:32. > :54:37.anything, and as well you know, Katie, even laying down your
:54:37. > :54:41.you are prepared as a journalist to take a risk.
:54:41. > :54:44.That's all from me for now. The next news on BBC1 is at midday. Back to
:54:44. > :54:49.Andrew and guests but first a look at what is coming
:54:50. > :54:56.up after this programme. Thanks, join us in Cardiff where
:54:56. > :54:59.will be asking should we trust British journalism? Lembit Opik says
:54:59. > :55:04.the press destroyed his life and career. And there are warnings that
:55:04. > :55:11.people are dying needless because of booze. Does society pay too high a
:55:11. > :55:16.price for alcohol? In lent, should we repent for the planet?
:55:16. > :55:20.Noah Stewart admits he is unlikely back ground for an opera
:55:20. > :55:25.singer, growing up in Harlem and yet he says it was the lack of black
:55:25. > :55:29.performers which spurred him on he has performed all over the world.
:55:29. > :55:34.He has a new album out as well. Good morning. Good morning, how are you?
:55:34. > :55:38.It was your Mum that really got you going; is that right? Yes, my Mum
:55:38. > :55:42.is a huge influence in my life she enrolled me downtown in New York
:55:42. > :55:46.City because she wanted to ensure quality education for me and I was
:55:46. > :55:51.very fortunate to have great teachers and mentors. What was it
:55:51. > :55:55.like growing up in Harlem and you are an opera singer? It was a bit
:55:55. > :55:59.weird. They used to call me opera guy and oftentimes would sing
:55:59. > :56:04.when I would come around the corner going into my flat. You are
:56:04. > :56:10.to be singing a new opera Garden? Yes, I make my debut
:56:10. > :56:13.modern opera, it's fantastic music and I'm having a lot of fun. Your
:56:13. > :56:19.album is something we are seeing a bit of these days, which is a kind
:56:19. > :56:24.of mix of soul and gospel, on? Exactly. Plus some opera?
:56:24. > :56:29.that because you want to pull people into opera? No, it's part of my
:56:29. > :56:32.background. I started singing music from the West End as well as gospel
:56:32. > :56:35.and also classical music so I wanted to give a broad range. So you
:56:35. > :56:42.going to lift our souls the end? Lift our
:56:42. > :56:46.of the programme? Amazing Grace with my fantastic guitarist today.
:56:46. > :56:49.We will enjoy it. Thank you very much. We are back next Sunday
:56:49. > :56:52.we will no doubt have more news from Syria and I should just make it
:56:52. > :56:54.clear the BBC does have inside the country, they have been
:56:54. > :56:59.reporting from Homs, but happily not trapped there at the moment.
:56:59. > :57:09.Finally, as promised, here is Noah Stewart so lift our hearts with
:57:09. > :57:20.
:57:20. > :57:28.Amazing Grace. # How sweet a sound
:57:28. > :57:38.# That saved a wretch like me # I once was lost
:57:38. > :57:38.
:57:38. > :57:48.# But now I'm found #
:57:48. > :57:49.
:57:49. > :57:59.#Was blind but now I see # Twas grace that taught my heart to
:57:59. > :58:02.
:58:02. > :58:12.fear # And grace my fears relieved
:58:12. > :58:17.
:58:17. > :58:27.# How precious did that grace appear # The hour I first believed
:58:27. > :58:31.