:00:54. > :00:57.Good morning. That long-running West End show the Leveson Inquiry
:00:57. > :00:59.into bad journalists and supine politicians is nearing its
:00:59. > :01:02.conclusion. Plenty of memorable moments, but one of the most moving
:01:02. > :01:05.comments came this week from Gordon Brown, quoting the poet Shelley,
:01:05. > :01:15.who said of a relative, "He had lost the art of communication but
:01:15. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :01:22.not, alas, the gift of speech." "And I felt by the end I'd got into
:01:22. > :01:25.the same position," said the former PM. In public life, he's not alone.
:01:25. > :01:28.And joining me today for our review of the Sunday newspapers, two
:01:28. > :01:31.writers who retain I trust both the power of speech and the art of
:01:31. > :01:35.communication. They are the well- travelled John McCarthy and Sarah
:01:35. > :01:38.Baxter, editor of the Sunday Times Magazine. It's just over a century
:01:38. > :01:42.since Alfred Nobel pledged part of his vast fortune, made from selling
:01:42. > :01:45.explosives, to an annual peace prize. But there's never been a 20-
:01:45. > :01:50.year gap between the prize being awarded and and the recipient
:01:50. > :01:53.receiving the honour - until now. In Oslo yesterday, Aung San Suu Kyi
:01:53. > :01:57.said that the Nobel peace prize had kept her going through the dark
:01:57. > :02:02.years as a political prisoner. It proved she was not suffering alone
:02:02. > :02:05."in an indifferent universe". This trip is the first time she's left
:02:05. > :02:07.South-East Asia in quarter of a century, and, in her first
:02:07. > :02:12.broadcast interview, she's been talking to old friend Fergal Keane
:02:12. > :02:15.of the BBC about coming to Britain, and about the future of Burma. Big
:02:15. > :02:21.business is keen to invest, but is the transition to democracy
:02:21. > :02:24.Greece votes again today, and the outcome will either see more
:02:24. > :02:32.agonising austerity or, many believe, the fast route to leaving
:02:32. > :02:34.the euro, with consequences across Europe, including here. I've been
:02:34. > :02:43.speaking to the former Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, who
:02:43. > :02:46.says that exiting the Euro would be And Peter Mandelson is with us to
:02:46. > :02:51.talk about the future of the euro, our place in Europe and domestic
:02:51. > :03:01.politics, too. Bags of interesting stuff, I hope. Let's start with the
:03:01. > :03:03.Good morning. Greeks go to the polls today in a vote which could
:03:03. > :03:05.result in the country leaving the euro. Elections last month failed
:03:05. > :03:09.to produce a government. International leaders are nervously
:03:09. > :03:11.watching today's ballot. They fear that if voters elect an anti-
:03:11. > :03:21.austerity government, Greece could be pushed out of the single
:03:21. > :03:25.currency, which could destabilise the eurozone. They have done the
:03:25. > :03:29.handshakes, the pleasantries, the selling of the party message. It
:03:29. > :03:33.has been a short, sharp campaign, and now it is up to the Greek
:03:33. > :03:37.people to decide which politician they want to lead them through the
:03:37. > :03:43.worst financial crisis in their modern history. The two front
:03:43. > :03:51.runners are from opposite sides. Antonis Samaras wants to pursue the
:03:51. > :03:57.cost cutting, and keep the bail-out. But Alexis Tsipras is a tough
:03:57. > :04:01.challenger. He wants to scrap the bail-out and put a stop to the cuts.
:04:01. > :04:06.Brussels said that could lead Greece into bankruptcy and out of
:04:06. > :04:10.the euro. And so there has been an unprecedented intervention by EU
:04:11. > :04:16.leaders, who fear that a quick exit from the eurozone could set off a
:04:16. > :04:20.chain reaction. TRANSLATION: It is so important
:04:20. > :04:25.that the Greek elections lead to a result in which the new leadership
:04:25. > :04:30.will say, yes, we will stick to the agreements. That is the basis on
:04:30. > :04:34.which Europe will prosper. But this is a society suffering from the
:04:34. > :04:43.cuts. A third of Greeks are now thought to live below the poverty
:04:43. > :04:47.line. Unemployment is at record highs. A small country, with the
:04:47. > :04:51.tiny European economy, and yet a vote with huge implications for the
:04:51. > :04:57.survival of the eurozone. The choice facing Greece is a critical
:04:57. > :05:00.The presidential election in Egypt is entering its final day, against
:05:00. > :05:03.a background of increasing anger and turmoil. Turnout has been low.
:05:03. > :05:06.The groups which overthrew President Mubarak last year say
:05:06. > :05:09.they are uninspired by the choice of candidates. The run-off is
:05:09. > :05:16.between the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohammed Morsi, and
:05:16. > :05:20.the former prime minister Ahmed A British soldier killed in
:05:20. > :05:23.Afghanistan on Friday has been named by the Ministry of Defence.
:05:23. > :05:27.Corporal Alex Guy, who was 37, was from the 1st Battalion the Royal
:05:27. > :05:30.Anglian Regiment. He was killed in Helmand Province while leading his
:05:30. > :05:38.section, who were helping a group of Afghan soldiers facing an ambush.
:05:38. > :05:40.419 British troops have died in The International Olympic Committee
:05:40. > :05:43.has launched an investigation into allegations that officials from
:05:43. > :05:48.more than 50 countries have broken rules over the sale of tickets for
:05:48. > :05:51.the 2012 Games. The Sunday Times claims it has evidence of thousands
:05:51. > :05:57.of tickets being sold on the black market, with some being offered at
:05:57. > :06:00.prices up to ten times their market The British rock band Radiohead has
:06:00. > :06:04.cancelled a concert in Canada after the stage collapsed, killing one
:06:04. > :06:07.person and seriously injuring another. The incident happened
:06:07. > :06:17.about an hour before the gates were due to open for the sell-out gig in
:06:17. > :06:21.
:06:21. > :06:26.From the sky, the scale of the accident can be seen. Part of the
:06:26. > :06:33.stage has collapsed, killing one person and injuring three others.
:06:33. > :06:38.All were stage crew. They were setting up, when the top portion of
:06:38. > :06:43.the stage collapsed on top of them. The remainder of the people, when
:06:43. > :06:47.they heard the stage coming down, ran from the area. It happened just
:06:47. > :06:53.over an hour before the gates were due to open for a large outdoor
:06:53. > :06:57.concert. Some 40,000 fans had been expected. The band are
:06:57. > :07:02.internationally recognised as one of the best in the world. Soon
:07:03. > :07:07.after the accident, they tweeted that the concert had been cancelled
:07:07. > :07:13.due to unforeseen circumstances. Those unforeseen circumstances have
:07:13. > :07:16.cost the life, but some will be grateful that more were not killed.
:07:16. > :07:26.That's all from me for now. I'll be back just before ten o'clock with
:07:26. > :07:34.
:07:34. > :07:44.Moving on to the front pages now. On the front of the observer, Aung
:07:44. > :07:46.
:07:46. > :07:54.San Suu Kyi, having received her Nobel Prize. There is the
:07:54. > :07:56.Independent, with Aung San Suu Kyi also. The Sun has the story about
:07:56. > :08:02.the wicked Swede who was watching the wicked Swede who was watching
:08:02. > :08:07.England prepare for their match. The Mail on Sunday has a story
:08:07. > :08:11.about Leveson fretting to quit over something Michael Gove apparently
:08:11. > :08:16.said about his inquiry. More on that later. The Sunday Times and
:08:16. > :08:21.the Sunday Telegraph have strong lead stories of their own. This
:08:21. > :08:25.story is about large numbers of people apparently prepared to sell
:08:25. > :08:31.lots of black market tickets at hugely inflated prices, for the
:08:31. > :08:36.Olympics. And the Sunday Telegraph says that the go-ahead is about to
:08:37. > :08:42.be given for new nuclear weapons, and all of the political
:08:42. > :08:44.ramifications, which we will discuss later as well. Thank you
:08:44. > :08:49.discuss later as well. Thank you both for coming in - where are we
:08:49. > :08:53.going to start? I would like to start with this story about Aung
:08:53. > :08:57.San Suu Kyi. The Independent on Sunday has the story about what she
:08:57. > :09:01.actually said when she was picking up her prize. I think it is very
:09:01. > :09:08.moving that she speaks about the fact of having been held under
:09:08. > :09:12.house arrest, and the fact that being given this award had made her
:09:12. > :09:19.feel that she was reconnected with the world, and had inspired her to
:09:19. > :09:23.continue the fight. It was a beautifully written speech. Yes,
:09:23. > :09:30.and also, it is so personal. It talks about us as ordinary human
:09:30. > :09:37.beings. The idea that one of the most important things is human
:09:37. > :09:42.kindness, which is really rather touching. She also says that you
:09:42. > :09:47.die a little when you're forgotten. Actually, I had never heard of her
:09:47. > :09:53.21 years ago, but I heard of her then, and ever since, I have paid
:09:53. > :10:02.attention to her case, and that of Burma. She is really a very
:10:02. > :10:06.deserving recipient. Now, you have picked from your own paper, the
:10:06. > :10:10.Sunday Times, this is the black market story. It looks like a
:10:10. > :10:15.really good piece of old-fashioned investigative journalism. I think
:10:15. > :10:22.it is, and I am very proud of it. But I also have to say, sadly, it
:10:22. > :10:27.does not surprise me very much. Does it surprise you? No.
:10:27. > :10:31.Serbians have been at it, the Chinese... The thing that makes me
:10:31. > :10:35.laugh, the Greek head of the Olympic Committee managed to
:10:35. > :10:43.persuade Seb Coe that there was massive demand in Greece, when in
:10:43. > :10:46.fact, surprisingly, there has hardly been any from that country!
:10:46. > :10:56.They are taking it seriously now, I don't think they were policing it
:10:56. > :10:56.
:10:56. > :11:01.very effectively before. John, I mentioned the story about nuclear
:11:01. > :11:08.weapons. In some ways, this is a not unexpected government
:11:08. > :11:11.announcement, but it has big political implications. Yes, it is
:11:11. > :11:16.the announcement of a new multi- billion-pound programme to renew
:11:16. > :11:20.the nuclear weapons. The political issue I think is beyond the debate
:11:20. > :11:25.on nuclear weapons, it is the fact that they are going ahead with
:11:25. > :11:28.replacing Trident. This is one of the issues which the Lib Dems said
:11:28. > :11:35.they would not tolerate in their manifesto. It seems like another
:11:35. > :11:39.rift within the coalition. Nick Clegg has said to his MPs, do not
:11:39. > :11:43.support this, it is another of those issues. If you go through
:11:43. > :11:46.today's papers, there are lots of issues where you can see the
:11:46. > :11:50.Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats absolutely at loggerheads.
:11:50. > :11:56.This is one of them. Another one would-be Jeremy Hunt not being
:11:56. > :12:00.supported in the House of Commons. I think there have been warnings
:12:00. > :12:04.from the Conservatives to the Lib Dems saying, we are going to
:12:04. > :12:07.scupper your house of Lords reform. It all started with student fees,
:12:07. > :12:12.if you remember, but that was relatively amicable, compared to
:12:12. > :12:18.what is going on now behind the scenes. The Leveson Inquiry has
:12:18. > :12:23.opened up a can of worms, with regard to Jeremy Hunt. I actually
:12:23. > :12:24.brought up as well the Leveson brought up as well the Leveson
:12:24. > :12:29.story in the Mail on Sunday. The inquiry seems to be straying into
:12:29. > :12:33.all sorts of areas which people never quite imagined a! And now, I
:12:33. > :12:38.gather that Lord Justice Leveson, according to the Mail on Sunday,
:12:38. > :12:45.whether he threatened to quit or not is in some doubt, but he
:12:45. > :12:50.certainly gave an angry phone call over Michael Gove's alleged
:12:50. > :12:54.meddling, by daring to have a speech where he suggested that the
:12:54. > :12:59.Leveson Inquiry might be having a bit of a chilling effect on one
:12:59. > :13:02.particular debate. My own feeling is that here was a minister who was
:13:02. > :13:06.standing up for the freedom of the press at a time when the press
:13:06. > :13:10.itself was finding it quite hard to defend itself in front of Leveson,
:13:10. > :13:16.not just because of embarrassment over some obvious wrongdoing, some
:13:16. > :13:20.of which is actually illegal, like phone hacking, but it is on the
:13:20. > :13:23.back foot very much because it is afraid of what Lord Justice Leveson
:13:24. > :13:32.will recommend, in terms of possibly punitive statutory
:13:32. > :13:36.legislation, so Michael Gove is speaking up for the press. The Mail
:13:36. > :13:41.on Sunday helpfully reprints Michael Gove's original speech. It
:13:41. > :13:45.seems to me he is also having a go at the Law of intended -- the law
:13:45. > :13:50.of unintended consequences. You set up the criminal records bureau, for
:13:50. > :13:58.example, and then the pro-life group to more and more. It seems to
:13:58. > :14:04.be a general truth. Yes, I think he said something very benign,
:14:04. > :14:08.basically, to make sure the cure is not worse than the disease, but it
:14:09. > :14:13.seems to have caused the front to Lord Leveson. We have got the
:14:13. > :14:19.memoirs out at the moment, Alastair Campbell's memoirs, speaking about
:14:19. > :14:23.Murdoch apparently speaking to the Prime Minister of the time. I am
:14:23. > :14:27.not saying that Murdoch was definitely demanding this, he now
:14:27. > :14:37.says. But there is an interesting piece in the Observer about
:14:37. > :14:43.
:14:43. > :14:53.Alastair Campbell tweeting about this acceptance of the honour from
:14:53. > :14:59.
:14:59. > :15:07.Iannucci. Alastair Campbell mocks him for this. I think even Alastair
:15:07. > :15:11.Campbell admitted that was a good report -- a good retort. Twitter
:15:11. > :15:21.has become a good place for little spats like that. What is your next
:15:21. > :15:22.
:15:22. > :15:25.John Cruddas is interviewed for the first time in the Observer. Oh yes.
:15:25. > :15:29.The tone of the interview shows how confident and bullish the Labour
:15:30. > :15:34.Party is getting. I mean, the economic head winds against
:15:34. > :15:39.incumbent Government are so strong. We have talked about the coalition
:15:39. > :15:44.tensions. I think here Cruddas is setting out quite a left-wing
:15:44. > :15:54.agenda, very pro-public sector. They even talk about putting union
:15:54. > :15:54.
:15:54. > :15:59.members on boards of companies. He is going fob a populist mesh -- for
:15:59. > :16:03.a populist measure. This is a sign that Labour is getting its
:16:03. > :16:07.confidence back. They think they can win. This is a chance to have a
:16:07. > :16:11.simple, straightforward - it is a left-wing message - but it is
:16:11. > :16:15.something that he thinks the public will be able to buy because,
:16:15. > :16:20.instead of being 27 policy reviews into this, that and the other, it
:16:20. > :16:23.has a few clear... He is not a well-known national figure. But
:16:24. > :16:27.he's becoming a very important politician, I think? It is also
:16:27. > :16:32.interesting he has been out in the cold a bit with the Labour Party.
:16:32. > :16:37.He has come back in. He didn't vote for Ed Miliband during the
:16:37. > :16:45.leadership campaign. It does suggest that he has a much fresher
:16:45. > :16:49.view. Yes. They are trying to find a way forward that will be populist.
:16:49. > :16:56.We have gone through a lot of the big issues. I would like to talk
:16:56. > :17:00.about Syria. The possibility of full-scale all-out civil war is
:17:00. > :17:04.occupying a lot of the leader writers in a lot of the papers,
:17:04. > :17:07.John? The UN yesterday said it stopped its mission in terms of
:17:07. > :17:12.trying to keep an eye on what is going on because it is too
:17:12. > :17:17.dangerous. They are saying Syria is in civil war now. When we look and
:17:18. > :17:23.think that some of the rebels are being sponsored by Qatar, Saudi
:17:23. > :17:27.Arabia, the Russians are refusing any intervention against the Assad
:17:27. > :17:34.regime. This week, we have had the Americans asking the British to
:17:34. > :17:37.stop a ship that may be carrying refurbished Russian or Soviet -
:17:37. > :17:42.sorry, Russian helicopters being shipped back to Syria. There's a
:17:42. > :17:47.lot of power play going on. 10,000 people have died and it seems to be
:17:47. > :17:50.getting worse. This is your area after your terrible ordeal way back
:17:50. > :17:55.when. You have kept a close interest in that part of the world.
:17:55. > :17:59.You have been back talking to Palestinians inside Israel? That's
:17:59. > :18:02.right, yes, I have written a book right, yes, I have written a book
:18:02. > :18:09.about Palestinians in Israel. We are talking about - we have been
:18:09. > :18:14.looking at a lot of the Arab Spring and the hope for more democracy.
:18:14. > :18:17.Israel has seen itself as a democracy. I wanted to explore that
:18:17. > :18:25.through the eyes of ordinary people, the Palestinian people, the Arabs
:18:25. > :18:30.who stayed in the state after 1948. Yes. And I think that it has shared
:18:30. > :18:33.a very different light on that idea of it being this wonderful...
:18:33. > :18:39.don't come away thinking the peace process has a new lease of life?
:18:39. > :18:43.I don't think so. At the moment, particularly with the situation in
:18:43. > :18:49.the West Bank and Gaza, but also with the right-wing Israeli
:18:49. > :18:56.government, that is in a stalemate. It is, of course, Fathers Day,
:18:56. > :19:06.Sarah? It is. There's lots of interesting pieces. I think - I was
:19:06. > :19:11.going to mention the Josie Russell story? Yes. This was the girl whose
:19:11. > :19:16.mother and sister were killed in that ghastly hammer attack. She was
:19:16. > :19:23.attacked with a hammer herself. She still wears a hat. She is a
:19:23. > :19:27.beautiful girl. Her father, Shaun, brought her up and really provided
:19:27. > :19:32.the love and constant support that she... She has written a special
:19:32. > :19:38.letter to him. Yes. She says, "He's made me happy. I can't thank him
:19:38. > :19:46.enough." A lot of us feel that way about our dads. Thank you, fathers.
:19:46. > :19:51.We have got two old dads here. Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney who
:19:51. > :20:01.are 70, they are looking back on their careers. The headline is
:20:01. > :20:02.
:20:02. > :20:09."Battle of the Champions". We probably agree The Beatles are...
:20:09. > :20:15.Paul gets my vote. And mine, too! There's one great picture - I don't
:20:15. > :20:21.know if we can find it? I've got it. I hope we can pick it out there.
:20:21. > :20:27.You need to watch... You need the You need to watch... You need the
:20:27. > :20:31.terrifying scale. This man walked over Niagara Falls. You can be
:20:31. > :20:36.boiling in the car park and if you go to the edge of those falls, the
:20:36. > :20:42.gusts and the wind - it is blowing spray in your face. It is also very
:20:42. > :20:48.windy. He's on a small, slippery rope? He was forced to wear a
:20:48. > :20:53.harness. He didn't want to. I'm amazed with those hundred miles an
:20:53. > :21:03.hour winds, that he could make it across. How anybody could do it, it
:21:03. > :21:03.
:21:03. > :21:08.makes me feel queasy. I think that is a bigger challenge - the Grand
:21:08. > :21:14.Canyon. Thank you very much. Talking of wet, the wettest April,
:21:14. > :21:19.I think, ever has oozed and dripped its way into a chilly and splashy
:21:19. > :21:22.June which could also make records. What is next? Sarah Keith-Lucas can
:21:22. > :21:26.tell us. I can promise you some improvement
:21:26. > :21:30.in the weather. It has been very wet for the first couple of weeks
:21:30. > :21:34.of June. Today, we are looking at some sunny spells. The low pressure
:21:34. > :21:38.that has been in charge shifts away towards the north and the east. The
:21:38. > :21:42.isobars ease out as well. So, certainly a less windy day. Spells
:21:42. > :21:46.of sunshine for most of us. It won't be dry all day. There will be
:21:46. > :21:51.some showers here and there. More persistent rain affecting eastern
:21:51. > :21:54.parts of Scotland and some of that rain into the North East of England.
:21:54. > :21:58.Sunshine and scattered showers further south. The showers fairly
:21:58. > :22:02.few and far between. Not as heavy as the last few days. The far South
:22:02. > :22:05.East is likely to stay dry for much of the day. One or two lighter
:22:05. > :22:10.showers this afternoon. Sunshine along the southern coasts. More in
:22:10. > :22:14.the way of showers across northern parts of Somerset, Devon and
:22:14. > :22:17.Cornwall. As we head up towards Wales, we are looking at some
:22:17. > :22:22.decent spells of sunshine. One or two showers interrupting that
:22:22. > :22:27.sunshine at times. All in all, it is a decent day. Less windy for
:22:27. > :22:31.Northern Ireland than recent days and less wet, too. As we look ahead
:22:31. > :22:35.to Monday, some wet weather in the south and east. For most places, it
:22:35. > :22:37.is looking drier and brighter. The settled theme to the weather
:22:37. > :22:41.continues into the middle of the week.
:22:41. > :22:44.That is not too bad. Like Nelson Mandela, who has been a huge
:22:44. > :22:49.inspiration to her, Aung San Suu Kyi has become an international
:22:49. > :22:53.symbol of peaceful resistance to oppression, the Burmese democracy
:22:53. > :22:58.leader was imprisoned after a military coup in 1988 and spent the
:22:58. > :23:01.best part of 20 years in detention or under house arrest. Burma's been
:23:01. > :23:04.undergoing something of a transformation. Now, in her late
:23:05. > :23:08.60s, Aung San Suu Kyi has a seat in Parliament and is free to travel
:23:08. > :23:10.outside the country knowing she will be allowed back in again to
:23:10. > :23:14.will be allowed back in again to continue her campaign for further
:23:14. > :23:16.reform. For the woman who was once the
:23:16. > :23:19.world's most famous political prisoner, making her Nobel
:23:19. > :23:23.acceptance speech in Oslo yesterday - two decades after she was awarded
:23:23. > :23:26.the Peace Prize - must have been a sweet moment indeed. Now she is
:23:26. > :23:31.feted wherever she goes, but for years she was mainly hidden from
:23:31. > :23:36.the world. The BBC's Fergal Keane has followed every twist of Aung
:23:36. > :23:39.San Suu Kyi's extraordinary story. He interviewed her back in 1995, at
:23:39. > :23:43.her home in Rangoon, when she was released from her first stretch of
:23:43. > :23:51.house arrest. Despite the actions of the Burmese authorities, she
:23:51. > :24:01.never lost her faith in the simple idea of freedom. They have not been
:24:01. > :24:03.
:24:03. > :24:06.able to do anything to what really matters. She faced many more tests.
:24:06. > :24:09.There were further periods of house arrest and solitary confinement.
:24:09. > :24:13.And she was unable to visit her dying husband in Britain, or see
:24:13. > :24:16.her two sons, for fear she would never be allowed to return to her
:24:16. > :24:19.homeland. Earlier this year, Fergal and Aung San Suu Kyi met again in
:24:19. > :24:22.the same house, which had also been her prison. This time she was
:24:22. > :24:28.finally free after the government started its programme of political
:24:28. > :24:31.reform. Her party - the National League for Democracy - contested
:24:31. > :24:34.elections, and now she sits in Parliament as leader of the
:24:34. > :24:37.Opposition. It's been hailed as a new era for Burma, but, after all
:24:37. > :24:42.she's experienced, Aung San Suu Kyi is cautious, saying her country
:24:42. > :24:47.still has a long, long way to go. It's particularly significant for
:24:47. > :24:50.her because this used to be her home. Just before she gave her
:24:50. > :24:54.Nobel acceptance speech, Fergal Keane caught up with her again for
:24:54. > :24:58.an exclusive interview, her first with a British journalist on this
:24:58. > :25:05.historic trip to Europe. He asked her how she felt being outside
:25:05. > :25:10.Burma after her long incarceration and the centre of attention. Well,
:25:10. > :25:14.a very frivolous thought has come into my head. What I find most
:25:14. > :25:19.striking about the world outside is there are so many light switches
:25:19. > :25:23.and bathroom fittings. That is terribly confusing for me. The
:25:24. > :25:28.warmth of the people of the countries I have visited, this has
:25:28. > :25:33.meant most to me. Next week, you go to Britain, which was such a huge
:25:33. > :25:38.part of your life as a young woman. I'm wondering what you feel about
:25:38. > :25:44.going? I'm looking forward to it, very simply. I want to see old
:25:44. > :25:48.friends again. And to rediscover all the places where I have been
:25:48. > :25:55.happy. Is it tinged with sadness as well? I hope not. I hope it will
:25:55. > :25:59.not be tinged with sadness. When you look back on the years you have
:25:59. > :26:05.spent under house arrest, cut off from everybody, really, do you ever
:26:05. > :26:10.regret the decision you made to stay in Burma? No, I've never
:26:11. > :26:13.regretted it. I think the decision that not just I alone but my
:26:13. > :26:17.colleagues made to continue with our struggle is beginning to pay
:26:17. > :26:23.off. Even with all the pain it's involved for you personally?
:26:23. > :26:27.just for me, for others as well, and perhaps more for others than
:26:27. > :26:31.for me. On engagement with Burma, a lot of British companies are now
:26:31. > :26:39.looking to invest. Can they do it with a clean conscience? It depends
:26:39. > :26:43.on the way in which they do it. I spoke at the ILO of the need for
:26:43. > :26:46.democracy-friendly development growth to invest in a way that
:26:47. > :26:50.would promote democracy in Burma, that would empower the people, that
:26:51. > :26:56.would bring in new players into the economic arena, not just the same
:26:56. > :27:00.old people who have been enjoying a privileged situation for years.
:27:00. > :27:05.practical terms, if you were a major British company wanting to go
:27:05. > :27:11.into the energy sector - Burma has huge reserves of oil and gas - what
:27:11. > :27:21.do you do? Who do you get advice from? I do talk about that, that
:27:21. > :27:23.
:27:23. > :27:31.those who wanted to invest in these industries should make sure the
:27:31. > :27:35.state-owned company signs up. Transparency is the key. Without
:27:35. > :27:38.transparency, there can be no accountability. Unless there is
:27:38. > :27:42.transparency, we can never tell whether these investments are going
:27:42. > :27:48.to benefit the people or to just the already privileged few. If you
:27:48. > :27:57.are Shell or BP, stay away from joint ventures with the national
:27:57. > :28:03.oil and gas company? No, they should just tell the national
:28:03. > :28:08.company to adhere to the IMF code and they will also adhere to that
:28:08. > :28:14.code. You are happy to see British investment in Burma? I would be
:28:15. > :28:22.happy to see ethical, responsible investment. I wonder if you feel at
:28:22. > :28:25.all that too many people regarded it as a done deal, when the most
:28:25. > :28:29.difficult negotiations with the government lie ahead, nothing is
:28:29. > :28:32.settled? Absolutely. This is why I have been speaking out against what
:28:32. > :28:39.I call reckless optimism and calling for a bit of healthy...
:28:39. > :28:45.think there is reckless optimism? Yes. There is. I called for healthy
:28:45. > :28:49.scepticism which I must say was translated in the state newspapers
:28:49. > :28:53.as "promoting the good health of negativity" - that is a lot of
:28:53. > :28:58.nonsense. We do need a bit of healthy scepticism in the sense
:28:58. > :29:03.that we need to be aware of the many challenges that still lie
:29:04. > :29:07.ahead. On that, you have seen in the past week terrible ethnic
:29:07. > :29:13.violence, 35,000 people displayed and the president has warned that
:29:13. > :29:17.this could derail the transition, do you share his fears? We all
:29:17. > :29:22.share in such fears in the sense that we are concerned that things
:29:22. > :29:27.should not get worse and worse. I would also like to point out if
:29:27. > :29:30.there had been rule of law in our country, these communal
:29:30. > :29:35.disturbances would not have come to such large proportions. What do you
:29:35. > :29:41.mean by that? Because the very first time a crime was committed,
:29:41. > :29:47.which had, which was going to have communal consequences, they should
:29:47. > :29:53.have taken action. If they had been able to do that, and satisfy all
:29:53. > :29:57.parties involved, that justice was being done, if justice could have
:29:57. > :30:02.seen to be done, I do not think these disturbances would have grown
:30:02. > :30:07.to such proportions. One of the other concerns that's been raised
:30:07. > :30:11.recently, is the huge focus on you distracts from the really sensitive
:30:11. > :30:15.question of negotiations. You saw for example the president, your
:30:15. > :30:25.partner, pulling out of an event in Thailand because he feared being
:30:25. > :30:26.
:30:26. > :30:33.This is a question you have to put to him. He did not actually say
:30:33. > :30:40.that that was the reason. You have to ask him. But do you worry around
:30:40. > :30:45.-- about the kind of superstardom which surrounds you now? I do not
:30:45. > :30:55.think of myself as a superstar, I think of myself as the recipient of
:30:55. > :30:55.
:30:55. > :30:59.a lot of kindness and warmth, for which I am grateful. Nothing has
:30:59. > :31:03.been negotiated with the government - what for you is the key thing
:31:03. > :31:07.which must be achieved in negotiations? We will have to see
:31:07. > :31:10.what happens when we really start working in the national Assembly,
:31:10. > :31:17.how far we are able to go to bring about the changes which we think
:31:17. > :31:24.are necessary to make sure that 2015 will be the opening of the
:31:24. > :31:33.doors to a truly democratic country, not just government, a country
:31:33. > :31:36.which enjoy is the protection of democratic institutions. Right now,
:31:36. > :31:42.you cannot stand for the presidency because you have been married to a
:31:42. > :31:48.foreigner, is that not the case? Yes. How soon will you be able to
:31:48. > :31:50.get that law changed? I don't know. We have said that one of the
:31:50. > :31:55.requirements is amendments to the constitution, so we will have to
:31:55. > :32:02.see how long it takes for us to amend the constitution. People keep
:32:02. > :32:07.talking about 2015, but the really important years are now, before
:32:07. > :32:13.2015. If we wait until 2015 to see what is going to happen, it will be
:32:13. > :32:18.too late. We have got to start trying to make 2015 the kind of
:32:18. > :32:22.year we want it to be. Some people say you and your people have been
:32:22. > :32:26.naive, the government has been leading you up the garden path, it
:32:26. > :32:32.has got you into Parliament as a minority, and it is going to keep
:32:32. > :32:35.you there. No, they cannot keep us like that. We decided to run for
:32:35. > :32:43.the by-elections because we thought that we could serve the people
:32:43. > :32:47.better. We will of course be carrying on with our extra
:32:47. > :32:54.parliamentary activities. But at the same time, we will be expanding
:32:54. > :33:02.our activities to include Parliament. Do you believe that the
:33:02. > :33:06.National League for Democracy is really ready for power? A lot of
:33:06. > :33:10.people suggest that the National League for Democracy is
:33:10. > :33:15.disorganised, it is hard to know who makes policy or who speaks.
:33:15. > :33:20.is true to say that we are still in the process of reorganising. For 20
:33:20. > :33:24.years, we were not allowed to operate as a political party at all.
:33:24. > :33:29.Even in 2010, when we were legally registered, we were not allowed to
:33:29. > :33:34.recruit new members. Practically all of our offices, apart from the
:33:35. > :33:39.headquarters, were shut down, and many of our best people were
:33:39. > :33:44.imprisoned. It is only since January that we have been allowed
:33:44. > :33:51.to operate again as a political party. Obviously, we cannot be
:33:51. > :33:56.completely organised overnight. you accept there is some validity
:33:56. > :34:02.to that criticism? Oh, yes, we are working on it, we have to start
:34:02. > :34:07.from the grassroots level. We have to start with village conferences,
:34:07. > :34:17.then coming up to the national Conference. You clearly have a
:34:17. > :34:18.
:34:18. > :34:25.sense of destiny about the future. I don't know what you mean by a
:34:25. > :34:31.sense of destiny. I know what we are working towards, I know what
:34:31. > :34:34.our goal is, and I do believe that we will get there. Not perhaps
:34:34. > :34:39.along a straight road, and certainly it is going to be
:34:39. > :34:43.difficult, but I do believe that we will get there. Aung San Suu Kyi,
:34:43. > :34:48.thank you very much. Aung San Suu Kyi, who knows her mind, speaking
:34:48. > :34:53.to Fergal Keane, in Oslo yesterday. And of course, the people of Greece
:34:53. > :34:56.are going to the polls today, for the second time in two months. The
:34:56. > :35:01.future of the single currency and economies across Europe, including
:35:01. > :35:06.that of Britain, are tied up in the result. The leader of the left-wing
:35:06. > :35:11.grouping has said that if he wins power, the bail-out deal and the
:35:11. > :35:20.austerity programme will be history. He believes Greece can stay in the
:35:20. > :35:28.euro on easier terms. Earlier, I asked the former Prime Minister
:35:28. > :35:33.George Papandreou if this was possible. What they are saying
:35:33. > :35:39.sounds good to many people that are feeling the pain of austerity, but
:35:39. > :35:44.I think there is also a very contradictory electorate which is
:35:44. > :35:49.voting for this party, the SYRIZA party. Yes, we have the youth, who
:35:49. > :35:53.are unemployed and want are future, but those are the ones who want the
:35:53. > :35:57.deeper reforms. On the other side are many who do not want reforms,
:35:57. > :36:01.because there has taking some of the villages away. The austerity
:36:01. > :36:04.programme is causing intense anguish, obviously, in Greece -
:36:04. > :36:07.what do you say to those who are beginning to think that even
:36:07. > :36:13.leaving the euro could not be as bad as what Greece is going through
:36:13. > :36:19.now? It is still a programme which is manageable, if we stay in the
:36:19. > :36:23.euro. This programme may need to be altered, it may need to take a
:36:23. > :36:29.little bit more time, these things can be discussed, but staying in
:36:29. > :36:33.the euro is keeping us stable, in order to make this a success.
:36:33. > :36:37.Leaving the euro would be catastrophic for Greece. There
:36:37. > :36:43.would be a bank run, there would be high inflation, because we are
:36:43. > :36:51.still a high import country, dependent on oil, for example. We
:36:51. > :36:57.will have deep cuts in wages, and at the same time, we will most
:36:57. > :37:00.likely have a cut in our GDP growth of minus 20%. This will be a major
:37:00. > :37:04.catastrophe which will have not only social but also political
:37:04. > :37:08.consequences, which I believe will make it much more difficult for
:37:08. > :37:14.Greece to reform. George Osborne, the British Chancellor, has
:37:14. > :37:18.suggested that Greece's exit from the Yury might be the price Germany
:37:18. > :37:23.requires to move in and save the situation - how do you respond to
:37:23. > :37:27.that? It is not Greece that is the problem. If Greece was the problem,
:37:27. > :37:37.then the solution would be very simple, kick out Greece, and
:37:37. > :37:43.everybody would be happy. Greece represents the deeper problems of
:37:43. > :37:47.which the eurozone is facing. These are two major problems - one of
:37:47. > :37:52.those is the structure of the euro. We are half Federated, if you like.
:37:53. > :37:56.We have a common currency, but we do not have banks which a unified
:37:56. > :38:02.in any way, regarding capitalisation or monitoring or
:38:02. > :38:07.credit guarantees. We do not have a common fiscal policy. We are now
:38:07. > :38:11.creating a fiscal pact. We do not have a common economic policy, we
:38:11. > :38:16.have different tax regimes, labour laws and pension systems. We do not
:38:16. > :38:21.have a common social system, where the unemployed will be helped
:38:21. > :38:27.through the European Union. This is left to the member states. There is
:38:27. > :38:30.not much mobility, there is not the type of training that we need. And
:38:30. > :38:35.there is a lack of democratic legitimacy in many of the decisions
:38:35. > :38:40.we are making. These are problems the market sees. The market is
:38:40. > :38:45.telling Europe, not Greece, we are not confident today in the European
:38:45. > :38:48.structures, as they are, particularly in the eurozone.
:38:48. > :38:54.seems to me that you're saying that either there will be a complete
:38:54. > :38:58.collapse, total disaster, or there now has to be a full monetary and
:38:58. > :39:04.political union in Europe. I think we are at a make-or-break point in
:39:04. > :39:07.Europe. Greece has its problems, and we take on our own
:39:07. > :39:14.responsibilities for our mistakes, for our past and for a bad
:39:14. > :39:18.governance, and that is what we are trying to change. However, the
:39:18. > :39:24.structures in Europe need to be modernised, need to be more
:39:24. > :39:28.integrated, need to be stronger, to create the confidence in this world
:39:28. > :39:32.economy that we can together a deal with our problems. We must leave
:39:32. > :39:35.behind all of this nationalistic rhetoric about who is to blame,
:39:35. > :39:42.whether it is the southerners or the austere Germans or whatever. We
:39:42. > :39:45.need to work together, we need to pool our strengths in creating the
:39:45. > :39:50.types of structures, such as eurobonds, financial transaction
:39:50. > :39:55.taxes or other things, which will bring more revenue and confidence
:39:55. > :40:03.to the markets, so that we can have a path for competitiveness and
:40:03. > :40:07.growth. Otherwise, I can predict, with the experience of the past two
:40:07. > :40:11.years, but we will see more splintering, more of a patchwork in
:40:11. > :40:16.trying to deal with these issues. It was a great thing to be able to
:40:16. > :40:21.help the Spanish banks, but in my mind it was patchwork, compared to
:40:21. > :40:25.what is necessary - we need a bank union in Europe. If we do not move
:40:25. > :40:30.forward, we will see more splintering, and this will create
:40:30. > :40:35.much greater bitterness and political problems in Europe.
:40:35. > :40:41.has also been an increase in support for the ultra-nationalist
:40:41. > :40:44.party in Greece, Golden Dawn. You mentioned nationalism - how worried
:40:44. > :40:49.are you know that this is a premonition of what might happen
:40:49. > :40:52.generally if the euro breaks up? Absolutely. I think we are facing,
:40:52. > :40:59.because of the lack of confidence which is developing, the
:40:59. > :41:04.frustration, if you like, which seems that Europe today is not
:41:04. > :41:12.making those bold moves towards integration, towards solving our
:41:12. > :41:18.common problems, it is too easy to blame one another. That has created
:41:18. > :41:25.a ripe ground for populism, a ripe ground for racist parties and neo-
:41:25. > :41:29.fascist parties and extreme political views which will, not
:41:29. > :41:34.only in Greece but in other countries, tear apart the fabric,
:41:34. > :41:39.the real values on which the European Union is based. Because
:41:39. > :41:44.the European Union is a peace project, based on the ideal that we
:41:45. > :41:48.go beyond our nationalisms which came out in the First World War and
:41:48. > :41:55.the Second World War. It is based on the idea that we can bridge
:41:55. > :41:58.these divides and work together for prosperity, democracy and human
:41:58. > :42:02.rights, and of course deal with the wider challenges of the world, such
:42:02. > :42:10.as being much more competitive with the emerging markets. Thank you
:42:10. > :42:17.very much for joining us. Watching that, probably agreeing with quite
:42:17. > :42:20.a lot of it, I suspect, was Lord Mandelson, former Cabinet minister
:42:20. > :42:25.and European Trade Commissioner. Do you agree that this is an
:42:25. > :42:31.absolutely crunch moment, this vote in Greece? Yes. Whatever happens in
:42:31. > :42:37.the elections today, whoever wins, whatever government emerges, Greece
:42:37. > :42:44.faces a very long and painful road back. But that road will be much,
:42:44. > :42:49.much harder if Greece chooses the course of defaulting, further
:42:49. > :42:54.bankrupting itself and dropping out of the eurozone altogether. The
:42:54. > :42:58.social and human costs of that will be colossal - deepening recession,
:42:58. > :43:02.mounting unemployment, probably spiralling inflation. Therefore, it
:43:02. > :43:08.is very important indeed that the new coalition government in Greece
:43:08. > :43:14.finds a way of staying within the eurozone and arriving at a mutually
:43:14. > :43:18.acceptable agreement with its European partners. It suggests that
:43:18. > :43:22.politicians not just in Greece but all around the eurozone and beyond
:43:23. > :43:29.have rather less power perhaps then we have thought, that they have got
:43:29. > :43:34.the power to agree the measures which the markets feel are
:43:34. > :43:39.essential, but there is no alternative, people cannot vote, in
:43:39. > :43:48.a sense, for the alternative to SYRIZA, because the consequences
:43:48. > :43:51.are so awful. Well, they can do, but it is a reflection of the
:43:52. > :43:56.strains being caused by the adjustment programme in Greece. But
:43:56. > :44:01.also, the Greek people are absolutely fed up to the back teeth
:44:01. > :44:06.with the political and business a lead in Greece, who, through
:44:06. > :44:10.decades of mismanagement, have brought Greece to this situation.
:44:10. > :44:15.In a sense, you can hardly blame them for looking for radical
:44:15. > :44:20.alternatives. What I would say it is that the proposals of the
:44:20. > :44:27.radical Left Party are not really radical solutions for Greece, they
:44:27. > :44:31.would lead Greece down a terrible path, which would make what we have
:44:31. > :44:36.seen recently in Greece look very tame indeed. What about the
:44:36. > :44:40.argument which we hear from Berlin, that there is a case that you could
:44:40. > :44:44.possibly push Greece out and redraw the boundaries, and the problem
:44:44. > :44:50.would not then necessarily spread to Portugal, Ireland, Italy and
:44:50. > :44:54.Spain, that it is containable if Greece goes? To those who are
:44:54. > :45:01.arguing that, and the German government are not, I would say, be
:45:01. > :45:05.careful what you wish for. Not only do you have the tremendous risk of
:45:05. > :45:12.contagion, market panic, spreading across the more vulnerable members
:45:13. > :45:18.of the eurozone, and a growing sense within the markets that the
:45:18. > :45:23.euro has ceased to be a permanent currency, which would have huge
:45:23. > :45:31.implications for us all, including in Britain... I think the German
:45:31. > :45:34.position, as we see it, is right, to support Greece, to continue
:45:34. > :45:41.sustaining Greece financially, so that it can implement its
:45:41. > :45:47.adjustment programme, not unconditionally, but nonetheless,
:45:47. > :45:53.to stand behind Greece, so that it can make the very painful changes
:45:53. > :45:56.to its public finances which it needs, but more importantly, as
:45:56. > :46:00.George Papandreou was saying, undertake the structural reforms
:46:00. > :46:05.which Greece, as well as other countries in southern Europe, need
:46:05. > :46:09.to do. And they are doing it. Ireland is doing it. I was in
:46:09. > :46:12.Portugal this week, they are doing it. The Italians are following
:46:12. > :46:15.Mario Monti's leadership. Spain is coming to terms with what it needs
:46:15. > :46:25.to do. We have got to continue along this path, and that is what
:46:25. > :46:31.
:46:32. > :46:35.I believe it could be. That, however, gives a problem for all
:46:35. > :46:40.the democracies involved. What does it mean for the individual
:46:40. > :46:48.democracies? After all, Europe isn't one country. Yet, if all the
:46:49. > :46:55.decisions are being taken centrally, where does it leave the individual
:46:55. > :47:01.democratic systems? Well, it keeps the members of the European Union
:47:01. > :47:07.and the eurozone at its core, broadly speaking, in the same place
:47:07. > :47:10.as a union of democracy. Nobody is seeking to turn Europe into a
:47:10. > :47:19.single totalitarian state that is ruled from Brussels. That is never
:47:19. > :47:26.going to happen. There are changes that need to take place for a
:47:26. > :47:30.eurozone mark two... That could mean decisions about taxation
:47:30. > :47:37.levels, business taxation, fiscal policy obviously, all being at the
:47:37. > :47:41.centre. If that is removed from the national Parliament, it then
:47:41. > :47:44.becomes a glorified County Council? Not sure it will result to that
:47:44. > :47:49.degree in federalism. I don't accept that. What the eurozone has
:47:50. > :47:55.to focus on now, and the heads of government need to do this at the
:47:55. > :48:00.end of June, what sort of banking union do they need to create? That
:48:00. > :48:05.is important. What sort of fiscal integration where we share
:48:05. > :48:08.responsibility for each other's sovereign debt within the eurozone?
:48:08. > :48:15.What sort of programme of structural and economic change
:48:15. > :48:22.needs to be driven forward by the European Commission? Indeed, what
:48:22. > :48:26.new governance the eurozone needs? What we've got to see at the end of
:48:26. > :48:30.June is a working plan. The markets won't tolerate anything... We need
:48:30. > :48:34.to put in place a bridge to the future of the eurozone. Otherwise,
:48:34. > :48:37.who is going to rebuild their confidence in something which can't
:48:37. > :48:43.itself see how it is going to be operating in ten or more years'
:48:43. > :48:45.time. What about this country? It gives Britain a particularly
:48:45. > :48:51.difficult choice. Outside the eurozone, that's been a comfortable
:48:51. > :48:56.place to be in many respects recently. If there is a stronger,
:48:56. > :49:00.tighter core and we are outside it, does that bring forward that
:49:00. > :49:04.ultimate choice about Britain in Europe and does that mean sooner or
:49:05. > :49:12.later there has to be a referendum again? Possibly over the next five
:49:12. > :49:17.to ten years... Not sooner? No. The last thing we need is some sort of
:49:17. > :49:22.in-and-out or out referendum, pledged by a Conservative Prime
:49:22. > :49:27.Minister under pressure from the anti-European fanatics on his
:49:27. > :49:29.backbench. As a tactical ploy for them to play against UKIP. That
:49:29. > :49:33.would have nothing to do with the national interest. It would be to
:49:33. > :49:36.do with coping with the pressures inside the Conservative Party.
:49:36. > :49:42.There are plenty of people in the Labour Party who seem... I was
:49:42. > :49:47.going to go on to say that if and when, if and when the eurozone
:49:47. > :49:51.remakes itself, when you see a sort of gravitational pull of sort of
:49:51. > :49:57.decision-making within the European Union coming towards the core, then
:49:57. > :50:01.I think that a question will arise once more as to what's best
:50:02. > :50:06.relationship Britain wants to have with the European Union. I'm
:50:07. > :50:09.talking quite a way into the future here, the British public want to
:50:09. > :50:12.decide that for themselves, not least because I suspect the
:50:12. > :50:16.political parties in Britain may not be able to resolve their
:50:16. > :50:20.differences over it. Speaking of political parties, what do you make
:50:21. > :50:28.of what is going on in the Labour Party at the moment? There seems to
:50:28. > :50:32.be - we have had John Cruddas talking about essentially moving to
:50:32. > :50:40.Blue Labour, perhaps a bit more to the left. We are hearing a lot
:50:40. > :50:45.about a drive from the trade unions to purge progress which people may
:50:45. > :50:49.not understand. Progress is a Blairite think-tank funded by Lord
:50:49. > :50:58.Sainsbury. Are you concerned? the last point, I am concerned. We
:50:58. > :51:03.don't want to have a political party of intolerance, of renewed
:51:03. > :51:10.divisiveness and falling out of the sort that we saw in the 1980s. All
:51:10. > :51:14.of us want to put that behind us. Nor do I think it is right to view
:51:14. > :51:20.Progress as an organisation as some sort of Blairite faction. It is not
:51:20. > :51:25.looking to the past. It doesn't want to re-create the New Labour
:51:25. > :51:28.model of the past. It's forward- looking, it is progressive, it is
:51:28. > :51:32.modernising. It wants to commit to the best possible platform on which
:51:32. > :51:42.we can fight and win the next election. Perhaps that is why the
:51:42. > :51:55.
:51:55. > :51:59.trade unions don't like it. Ed Miliband has said he on progress. I
:51:59. > :52:04.don't know if it is GMB or Unite that is in lead of this fight. What
:52:04. > :52:07.is more important than their own internal democracy and their form
:52:07. > :52:12.of relationship with the Labour Party, it is how they remake
:52:12. > :52:16.themselves as trade unions for the 21st Century. That wasn't what I
:52:16. > :52:21.asked. I know it's not. It is the bigger question, Andrew. I think a
:52:21. > :52:30.lot of the problems that the Labour Party has with the trade unions...
:52:30. > :52:34.Your answer is "yes" but "I would rather not say so"... My answer is
:52:34. > :52:37.direct and frank. It is that the trade unions need to remake
:52:37. > :52:41.themselves for a new century. They have to create a different
:52:41. > :52:46.relationship with their own members. If they become more representative
:52:46. > :52:50.of their membership as a whole, they would not be leading either
:52:50. > :52:53.themselves or the Labour Party down what I regard as a pretty blind
:52:53. > :52:59.alley. The Leveson Inquiry, you gave evidence there. A lot of
:52:59. > :53:02.people would look at the evidence and say, "Well, Gordon Brown, Tony
:53:02. > :53:05.Blair particularly and David Cameron all got too close to the
:53:06. > :53:09.Murdoch machine at different times." I have acknowledged that.
:53:09. > :53:14.What is the big lesson for the future? Do you see this as the
:53:14. > :53:20.moment when there is some sort of new regulatory structure imposed on
:53:20. > :53:23.the press? We don't have a regulatory structure now. We have a
:53:23. > :53:28.system of so-called self-regulation which is no regulation at all. We
:53:28. > :53:36.all know that. We have to move to something else. Look, how I would
:53:36. > :53:44.see Leveson is in this way: David Cameron looking back over the last
:53:44. > :53:49.week, I think he will be regretting the extent to which he lowered his
:53:49. > :53:54.guard. But, I don't think anyone in the political class in Britain has
:53:54. > :53:59.anything to be proud of in how they have acted towards Murdoch and
:53:59. > :54:03.other newspaper proprietors and powers in the land. What is
:54:03. > :54:07.important now is that rather than try to seek party political
:54:07. > :54:12.advantage, that the political parties unite behind whatever
:54:12. > :54:17.Leveson proposes. It is very important that we don't once again
:54:17. > :54:21.bow to the pressures or the blandishments of the press, follow
:54:21. > :54:25.through what he is going to propose and recommend, unite behind it and
:54:25. > :54:29.see it through Parliament. That is very important. Of course, it must
:54:29. > :54:33.be a system that the press themselves can have some confidence
:54:33. > :54:36.in. Yeah. So that is what I would like to see coming out of Leveson.
:54:36. > :54:40.We now have a political responsibility to make sure we back
:54:40. > :54:45.him. I was talking to a very senior politician in Government the other
:54:45. > :54:51.day and he said the terrible truth that we can't admit - it reflects
:54:51. > :54:54.Leveson and also the euro situation - is that British politicians can
:54:54. > :54:58.much less power than people assume they have got these days and
:54:58. > :55:03.pretend that they have got, they have to pretend they have got more
:55:03. > :55:08.power. Is that true? It is true to this extent. We are not masters of
:55:08. > :55:14.economic events in our own country. We live within a global economy
:55:14. > :55:21.which has created major forces and some imbalances and distortions
:55:21. > :55:26.that we have seen emanating from the sea of credit that drove global
:55:26. > :55:31.growth for so many years. The only way in which we are going to tackle
:55:31. > :55:37.those imbalances is by acting internationally and not imagining
:55:37. > :55:41.that our economic salvation can be created by our own country alone.
:55:41. > :55:44.That is naive. Thank you very much. Now over to Naga for the news
:55:44. > :55:47.headlines. People in Greece are voting in a
:55:47. > :55:50.general election, which could decide whether the country remains
:55:50. > :55:52.in the single currency. EU leaders have warned that if a new
:55:52. > :55:56.government abandons the austerity programme, the entire eurozone
:55:56. > :55:58.could be destabilised. The former Prime Minister, George Papandreou,
:55:58. > :56:04.told this programme that leaving the euro would be "catastrophic for
:56:04. > :56:14.Greece". He warned of the dangers if Europe failed to agree on deeper
:56:14. > :56:23.economic and political union. too easy to blame one another. That
:56:23. > :56:30.has created a ripe ground for populism, a ripe ground for racist
:56:30. > :56:34.parties, a neofascist parties and extreme political views which will
:56:35. > :56:40.not only in Greece but in other countries tear apart the fabric,
:56:41. > :56:42.the real values on which the European Union is based. The former
:56:43. > :56:46.European Trade Commissioner and Labour Cabinet Minister Lord
:56:46. > :56:49.Mandelson has called on European leaders to set out plans for a
:56:49. > :56:53.reformed eurozone within the next few weeks. He said they need to
:56:53. > :56:57.decide soon on how to go forward considering issues such as banking
:56:57. > :57:01.union and sharing responsibility for each other's debt.
:57:01. > :57:04.That's all from me for now. The next news on BBC1 is at midday.
:57:04. > :57:09.Back to Andrew in just a moment. But, first, a look at what's coming
:57:09. > :57:12.up after the show. Today, legalising gay marriage will damage
:57:12. > :57:15.the institution of marriage itself. That is the view of the Anglican
:57:15. > :57:20.Church. Are they right or prejudiced? Should the police
:57:20. > :57:23.target people because of their race to fight crime? Is it time the
:57:23. > :57:29.Government blocked internet pornography? What do you think? See
:57:29. > :57:33.you at 10.00am. Lord Mandelson is still with us. And Sarah Baxter is
:57:33. > :57:41.here, too. You must have blanched when you heard Gordon Brown saying
:57:41. > :57:46.he had never spun against Tony Blair this week. He said it. Just a
:57:47. > :57:50.wry smile flickered across my face. Yes. Sarah, a lot of stuff in the
:57:50. > :57:54.Leveson Inquiry about politicians and journalists being very close,
:57:54. > :57:59.too close. Do you think it is true? It is a lot of nonsense. We know
:57:59. > :58:05.each other. I worked in the lobby for many years and yes, we talked
:58:05. > :58:08.to each other. That is a good thing. We have to exchange views. When
:58:08. > :58:11.journalists and politicians are being very cosy, you have to
:58:11. > :58:17.remember we are trying to get something out of the other person.
:58:17. > :58:24.It looks cosy. It is a transaction. Would you have journalistic friends
:58:24. > :58:28.as such? Very, very few. My view is that politicians and journalists
:58:29. > :58:32.have to maintain a professional wariness towards each other. When
:58:33. > :58:37.those boundaries are breached, therein lies potential trouble. It
:58:37. > :58:40.is all very well for me to say this. I'm sure Tony Blair is only too
:58:40. > :58:45.pleased and relieved that he never carried a mobile phone. He didn't
:58:46. > :58:51.live in the era of texts and instant e-mails. I have had
:58:51. > :59:01.politicians bound up to me and kiss me on the cheek as if I am some old
:59:01. > :59:06.
:59:06. > :59:09.friend. You have to be very wary of the appearance of it. I'm just
:59:09. > :59:13.transfixed by the idea of Blair the collective tweets.
:59:13. > :59:16.That's all we have time for today. Thanks to all my guests. Do join me