:00:43. > :00:47.Good morning and welcome. Almost obligatory to start today with
:00:47. > :00:51.something about the tax avoiding comedian Jimmy Carter. The best
:00:51. > :00:57.comment comes from the radio presenter Jamie Theakston who
:00:58. > :01:04.points out, Jimmy Carr earned �3.5 million last year. After tax that
:01:04. > :01:08.is nearly �3.5 million. All of that food for thought I am sure in our
:01:08. > :01:12.review of the Sunday papers this morning. The economist and author
:01:12. > :01:17.Dambisa Moyo is joined by the Independent journalist Mary Ann
:01:17. > :01:22.Sieghart. I know the euro crisis seems to have been going on for us
:01:22. > :01:26.long as this endless, waterlogged, dripping summer, but that does not
:01:26. > :01:32.make it any less serious. The Italian Prime Minister has said now
:01:32. > :01:35.there is a week left to save the euro-zone. On the morning when the
:01:35. > :01:39.newspapers are full of stories about tax and immigration, we are
:01:39. > :01:44.joined by the former Prime Minister Tony Blair and long time Euro
:01:44. > :01:49.enthusiast. What is his view of the euro-zone and the Labour Party? The
:01:49. > :01:52.only Cabinet minister with a rapidly growing budget, the
:01:52. > :01:55.International Development Secretary Andrew Mitchell is here. He is
:01:55. > :01:59.going to be telling us if our British taxpayers are getting a
:01:59. > :02:04.fair deal. Also, the Dalai Lama today speaks
:02:04. > :02:09.out about the Tibetan monks who have been burning themselves alight.
:02:09. > :02:13.Despite these dark times he urges us all to remain optimistic.
:02:13. > :02:23.Speaking of which, who could fail to be up lifted by the sound of the
:02:23. > :02:27.Simon Bolivar Orchestra? The Venezuelans are wowing audiences
:02:27. > :02:31.around the world and helping children in Scotland as well. We
:02:31. > :02:38.will be hearing more from their charismatic conductor Gustavo
:02:38. > :02:43.Dudamel. All of that after the news. NatWest is opening 1200 branches
:02:43. > :02:48.across the country today for the first time ever as the bank clears
:02:48. > :02:51.a massive backlog of payments caused by a computer glitch.
:02:51. > :02:56.Yesterday the chief executive of the RBS, Stephen Hester, admitted
:02:56. > :03:01.some customers had been let down by the technical problems which led
:03:01. > :03:06.many people unable to access their money or pay their bills.
:03:06. > :03:09.With one of Britain's biggest banks still struggling to get its system
:03:09. > :03:15.is working properly, some estate agents fear housing chains could
:03:15. > :03:21.collapse because one buyer could not complete. This man is a NatWest
:03:21. > :03:25.customer, but is losing money. we cannot get paid commission, we
:03:25. > :03:30.cannot pay our bills. Then there are my sales people. If they cannot
:03:30. > :03:35.get paid their commission, they also have mortgages to pay and I
:03:35. > :03:38.have a responsibility to them. NatWest says all mortgage
:03:38. > :03:43.completion payments have been processed and it will continue to
:03:43. > :03:53.make sure that remains the case. Online comments posted on the
:03:53. > :04:06.
:04:06. > :04:09.website give a flavour of its NatWest cannot say when the backlog
:04:09. > :04:14.of problems will finally be cleared, but it is promising no-one will
:04:14. > :04:19.lose money. That applies to anyone who has been affected, not just its
:04:19. > :04:23.own customers. Thousands of Egyptians have
:04:23. > :04:27.gathered in Cairo's Tahrir Square to wait for the delayed results of
:04:27. > :04:32.the country's presidential elections. An announcement is due
:04:32. > :04:36.this afternoon but it is unlikely to resolve the bitter divisions.
:04:36. > :04:40.Mohammed Mursi of the Muslim Brotherhood and the former prime
:04:40. > :04:43.minister Ahmed Shafiq have both claimed victory.
:04:44. > :04:48.The prime minister has suggested people under the age of 25 could
:04:48. > :04:53.lose the right to housing benefit. Scrapping the benefit for that age
:04:53. > :04:57.group would save almost �2 billion a year. David Cameron said he
:04:57. > :05:01.wanted to stop those who were working from feeling resentment
:05:01. > :05:05.towards those on benefit. Parts of the UK are braced for more
:05:05. > :05:09.flooding today with the south-west of England thought to be at most
:05:09. > :05:14.risk. Clean-up operations are taking place in Yorkshire and
:05:15. > :05:18.Lancashire. Thousands of people were forced from their homes after
:05:18. > :05:22.the region's stock one month's rain in 24 hours.
:05:22. > :05:28.England will take on Italy in the Ukraine this evening in the
:05:28. > :05:33.quarter-finals of Euro 2012. British police in Kiev say they are
:05:33. > :05:37.expecting around 6000 England fans tonight. A win would see the team
:05:37. > :05:42.reach the final four in a major tournament for the first time in 16
:05:42. > :05:48.years. I am back with another update in just under an hour. Now,
:05:48. > :05:53.back to Andrew. Now to the front pages as usual.
:05:53. > :05:59.Lots of domestic stories. The Sunday Times is leading with his
:05:59. > :06:09.story about Argentine athletes disrupting the Olympics over the
:06:09. > :06:12.
:06:12. > :06:16.Falklands. David Starkey, the British historian has erupted again.
:06:16. > :06:22.The Archbishop of Canterbury pours scorn on David Cameron's Big
:06:22. > :06:26.Society in his farewell book. He says it comes across as waffle. The
:06:26. > :06:31.Sunday Telegraph has a story about those people you meet on the
:06:31. > :06:36.streets all the time, the charity muggers. They have done a big
:06:36. > :06:43.investigation into that. They also say it wind farm pylons are going
:06:43. > :06:48.to cover our national parks. The Sunday Express, there is an
:06:48. > :06:53.enormous amount of preparatory coverage for the England versus
:06:53. > :06:56.Italy match today in all the papers. I do not know what is going to
:06:56. > :07:00.happen if England carry on advancing in the football, there
:07:00. > :07:07.will be nothing left to read in the papers apart from football?
:07:07. > :07:13.course they will not, they never do. You said it, I am far too cowardly.
:07:13. > :07:16.Thank you both for joining us. Where are you going to start?
:07:16. > :07:21.start with David Cameron's interview with the Mail on Sunday
:07:22. > :07:26.where he talks about withdrawing housing benefit from the under 25
:07:26. > :07:33.sq. Maybe restricting child benefit to families with more than three
:07:33. > :07:38.children. Sorry, restricting child benefit on children after three.
:07:38. > :07:41.What the Tory party are trying to do is to show the electorate what
:07:41. > :07:47.they would do it if they were able to govern without those pesky
:07:47. > :07:50.Liberal Democrats holding them back. We have had a lot from the Liberal
:07:50. > :07:54.Democrats talking about what they feel strongly about compared with
:07:54. > :07:59.the Tories. The Tories are now fighting back. They are worried
:07:59. > :08:04.they will not get a majority after it the next election and they want
:08:04. > :08:08.to dangle all these goodies to the electorate. If we did not have the
:08:08. > :08:13.Lib Dems, this is what we would do on our own. This is in the context
:08:13. > :08:19.of the fear that they will have to cut public spending a lot more for
:08:19. > :08:23.a lot longer. Another �10 billion from welfare. It is the sort of
:08:23. > :08:28.thing you might be able to do during a boom, but not in a
:08:28. > :08:34.recession. These and a 25 year-olds have not got jobs and now they are
:08:34. > :08:37.saying they are not going to give them benefit either. It is
:08:37. > :08:42.interesting how many Conservative Party politicians are starting to
:08:42. > :08:47.jostle publicly and you have picked up Michael Gove. Picking up on the
:08:47. > :08:52.point about jobs and the opportunities for young people, the
:08:52. > :08:58.Education Minister is having discussions on the transformation
:08:58. > :09:02.of the O-level system. One of the things I thought was interesting, I
:09:02. > :09:09.did a search on the OECD on where the UK ranks in terms of education
:09:09. > :09:15.globally. In science in 2006, Britain ranked No. 9 and it is now
:09:15. > :09:20.number 16. In terms of reading in 2000 it was the number seven and it
:09:20. > :09:24.is now numbered 25. Clearly something needs to be done. I do
:09:24. > :09:28.not want to speculate whether this is the appropriate thing, but an
:09:28. > :09:33.over what is required because of the statistics where Britain is
:09:33. > :09:37.failing to compete. I completely agree. We have got to start looking
:09:37. > :09:41.at the GCSE and A-level results in Britain and start looking at
:09:42. > :09:45.Britain compared to other countries. Education secretaries often
:09:45. > :09:52.complain about coasting schools, but we have got a coasting educates
:09:52. > :09:55.and system. Even within here, a lot of the banking and commercial
:09:55. > :10:00.institutions and Industry are struggling to hire people who are
:10:00. > :10:05.prepared to participate as good workers. Of course we also have to
:10:05. > :10:11.pay for all of this which takes us on to tax-dodging and tax avoidance.
:10:11. > :10:15.Another big story with Jimmy Carr. The Times has led the way. This is
:10:16. > :10:21.the Sunday Times, but the Daily Times has done a very good campaign
:10:21. > :10:26.in the last week about tax avoidance as opposed to evasion. I
:10:26. > :10:30.think it is going to have a real effect in terms of stigmatising
:10:30. > :10:35.people who avoid tax. There has been a great area and a lot of
:10:35. > :10:40.people like Jimmy Karzai if it is legal, why should I not do it?
:10:40. > :10:45.There is an outburst of public opprobrium now and a lot of people
:10:45. > :10:51.have got their money tied up in tax shelters and they will start
:10:51. > :10:55.looking, how will it look if that comes out? As they should do. There
:10:55. > :11:00.has been a very interesting division between people who say, it
:11:01. > :11:07.is absolutely wrong, whatever you call it. And there are others who
:11:07. > :11:13.say, it is the Government's fault, David Cameron's fault. As long as
:11:13. > :11:21.the law is there, you should be able to walk in -- work inside that.
:11:21. > :11:26.But to pay 1% is surely anti-social. Who is going to pay for that?
:11:26. > :11:30.one per say you should not even be using the roads. On that point,
:11:31. > :11:37.this is the next leg of a big discussion about the role of
:11:37. > :11:43.taxation, whether it is in Switzerland where we saw the expose
:11:43. > :11:49.of private accounts, or whether it is in the United States. You have
:11:49. > :11:56.picked another story on the Arab Spring. Yes, we are expecting to
:11:56. > :12:00.get an election result today and there has been this squabbling
:12:00. > :12:04.between two parties on who exactly is going to win. What strikes me is
:12:04. > :12:09.there has been so much discussion over the last 18 months about the
:12:09. > :12:15.role of democracy, what these politicians seem to be missing is
:12:15. > :12:19.that these are places with 70% of the population under the age of 24
:12:19. > :12:24.and they need an economic plan. Whoever gets in, needs to focus on
:12:24. > :12:30.what they need to do to solve that living standards. And the Muslim
:12:30. > :12:36.Brotherhood has been very good at providing a charity welfare system.
:12:36. > :12:42.That is right. Whether it is Egypt or Tunisia or across the Arab
:12:42. > :12:46.Spring, we have spent a lot of time about -- talking about the change
:12:46. > :12:50.in the political system, but we have done a poor job about
:12:50. > :12:53.analysing the economic situation. There is a lot of stuff about the
:12:53. > :13:01.Middle East and in the Sunday Telegraph there is a disturbing
:13:01. > :13:05.report about the Christians in Syria supporting the regime because
:13:05. > :13:11.they think they will have problems if the hardline Muslim party strife.
:13:11. > :13:17.The same problem in Egypt. A you have chosen his story from the
:13:17. > :13:25.Independent on Sunday which relates to one of hour later guests. It is
:13:25. > :13:29.the front page, how Blair misled the Cabinet over Iraq. The story is
:13:29. > :13:34.he did not let his attorney general give both sides of the argument to
:13:34. > :13:37.Cabinet. He only presented the positive side for award. The
:13:37. > :13:42.Attorney General says it is much more nuanced and they should hear
:13:43. > :13:49.both sides. This comes from Alastair Campbell's diaries which
:13:49. > :13:52.have produced a rich source of stories over the last few days.
:13:52. > :13:56.Absolutely and there has been a lot about Gordon Brown, but it is
:13:56. > :14:00.interesting Alastair Campbell was willing to say this about his old
:14:00. > :14:04.boss. I mentioned the euro at the beginning of the programme and
:14:04. > :14:11.there is an interesting piece in the Observer pointing out that this
:14:11. > :14:17.is not a European story, this is a worldwide story. This is a piece on
:14:17. > :14:26.Brazil, Russia, India and China and saying we are seeing weaknesses in
:14:26. > :14:31.their economies. 2.2% growth in Brazil. There has been a lot of
:14:31. > :14:37.discussion on the slowdown in China, around 7%. This is because China
:14:37. > :14:42.and Brazil are tied into the euro- zone. Very tidy end. What was
:14:42. > :14:49.interesting is the fact that last week these countries, Brazil,
:14:49. > :14:58.Russia, India and China announced massive cash inflows to support the
:14:58. > :15:03.Europeans. India, Brazil and Russia, $10 billion and the United States
:15:03. > :15:07.and Canada 0. This is emblematic of these growing economies. If it is
:15:07. > :15:12.the case they are slowing down, we really are in for a serious
:15:12. > :15:21.economic shock. I would love to have an aggressive slow down to 7%
:15:21. > :15:27.growth. It puts it all in context. You have been studying for a book,
:15:27. > :15:37.particularly the effect of China's ravenous appetite for land and
:15:37. > :15:40.
:15:40. > :15:45.minerals and agriculture around the There are about 20 conflicts raging
:15:45. > :15:51.around the world that have their origins in commodities. When we
:15:51. > :15:58.speak about Brazil, Russia, India and China, and particularly China,
:15:58. > :16:04.the consequences of it -- the consequences of a slowdown are not
:16:04. > :16:07.just limited to China. It perhaps explains why the summit on climate
:16:07. > :16:13.change produces such bland generalities rather than
:16:13. > :16:17.breakthroughs. It is just unbelievable. There is an article
:16:17. > :16:21.in the Independent about 40,000 environmentalists and 10,000
:16:21. > :16:26.government officials attending this conference. The notion that they
:16:26. > :16:30.are going to have a cohesive and co-ordinated approach to
:16:30. > :16:38.environmental issues is staggering. Think how much aircraft field-day
:16:38. > :16:43.burn in order to get there! have chosen an interesting piece
:16:43. > :16:48.from the Sunday Telegraph. Yes, the work world of women's magazines.
:16:48. > :16:55.There was this 14-year-old girl who committed suicide recently because
:16:55. > :16:58.she was worried she was too fat. The coroner, very outspokenly,
:16:58. > :17:05.blamed women's magazines and the sort of body image that is blamed
:17:05. > :17:09.as an ideal. This is a fascinating piece. It speaks about the horrible
:17:09. > :17:13.things that go on behind the scenes at women's magazines, for instance,
:17:13. > :17:18.they would have a range of models to choose from and they would
:17:18. > :17:25.complain that the thinnest one would be too unhealthy to use, but
:17:25. > :17:31.the photographer would insist on using the finis -- is the slimmest
:17:31. > :17:36.model. There was a girl who they used for an under where sheet. This
:17:36. > :17:44.woman was convinced that she was under-aged and they asked the agent,
:17:44. > :17:49.and they said, she is 16 and one day. This kills people. Yes,
:17:49. > :17:55.anorexics die. One magazine did a survey of its readers and three-
:17:55. > :17:59.quarters of them said that they felt fat. That is shocking. We have
:17:59. > :18:05.not even mentioned the weather and sport that actually fills most of
:18:05. > :18:11.the newspapers, but we thought this would be a great British summer in
:18:11. > :18:16.a Jubilee and celebratory and Olympics sort of way. In some ways
:18:16. > :18:22.it has been, but also in more traditional ways. Yes, I realised
:18:22. > :18:29.that I had the good fortune to travel to 50 countries, and in
:18:29. > :18:36.coming back to London, I thought, this is what Britain is known for.
:18:36. > :18:41.It has rain, football and festivities going on. But the
:18:41. > :18:46.gardens look beautiful. I have never seen such amazing roses.
:18:46. > :18:50.Belfast last week it was apparently colder than at Christmas and in the
:18:50. > :18:55.North of England, people have been coping with as much rain in a
:18:55. > :18:58.single day as normally falls in one month. This week we have Wimbledon
:18:58. > :19:02.month. This week we have Wimbledon starting, so that is all right then.
:19:02. > :19:08.Over to Sarah Keith-Lucas in the weather studio.
:19:08. > :19:14.Good morning. We have some drier weather on the scene. Today things
:19:14. > :19:19.are drying up. We started the day on a cloudy note. That is down to
:19:19. > :19:24.this weather front. It is still hanging on in the south-east. It
:19:24. > :19:32.will push away over the next few hours and behind it most of us will
:19:32. > :19:37.see a much better day. It's some heavy showers across the north-east
:19:37. > :19:44.of Scotland. For the north-west of England, it is looking dry, and
:19:44. > :19:48.find, for the Olympic torch rate as it heads towards Leeds. Most places
:19:48. > :19:53.avoiding showers over East Anglia. Some showers in central and
:19:53. > :19:59.southern England, and it could be cloudy across Cornwall, but Gethin
:19:59. > :20:06.looks fine and dry. For Wales, some showers inland, but around the
:20:06. > :20:11.coasts, it is a brighter picture. Cloudy in Northern Ireland. Things
:20:11. > :20:15.are getting warmer, and Monday looks like a fine and Friday. 20
:20:15. > :20:20.looks like a fine and Friday. 20 degrees.
:20:20. > :20:26.Thank you. Two winners of the Nobel Peace Prize turned up in the UK at
:20:26. > :20:30.once last week, Aung San Suu Kyi, and the exiled leader of the
:20:30. > :20:34.Tibetans, the Dalai Lama. He has had a difficult life by any
:20:34. > :20:39.standards, taken from his parents and declared a living god at the
:20:39. > :20:44.age of two. He was brought up by Buddhist monks and enthroned as
:20:44. > :20:51.head of state at the age of 15. When China invaded the country, as
:20:51. > :20:54.he fled the country a few years later. For decades he led a
:20:54. > :20:59.government in exile in northern India and despite recently giving
:20:59. > :21:03.up any claim for political power, as he continues to campaign for
:21:03. > :21:09.Tibetan economy. His followers believe him to be the 14th
:21:09. > :21:19.incarnation of the original Dalai Lama. When we met in London a few
:21:19. > :21:22.
:21:22. > :21:32.days ago, I asked him, will there be any more? If the majority of
:21:32. > :21:35.
:21:35. > :21:39.people, according to certain circumstances, they want this
:21:39. > :21:49.institution, or if they feel that it is not relevant, then there is
:21:49. > :22:00.
:22:00. > :22:07.no problem. Perhaps this institution will cease with grace.
:22:07. > :22:12.So you are the last Dalai Lama? That is possible. If the majority
:22:12. > :22:22.of people want to keep this institution, then the question is,
:22:22. > :22:26.
:22:26. > :22:36.how do we choose a successor? Perhaps they could do the same way
:22:36. > :22:44.
:22:44. > :22:50.as they choose a pauper. Choosing a leader. Seniority. They could
:22:50. > :22:59.choose among top scholars. So it is like biggest cardinal's? Yes, that
:22:59. > :23:04.is not unknown. I read that not only were you attracted by some
:23:04. > :23:12.aspects of communism when you were younger, you actually met their
:23:12. > :23:22.leader. Tell me about the impression that he made? He appears
:23:22. > :23:22.
:23:22. > :23:28.to me as a father. He considered me his son. We had very good relations.
:23:28. > :23:38.I would like to share with you, but the only problem is, when there is
:23:38. > :23:47.
:23:47. > :23:54.an official dinner, yes, Chairman Mao was there, so then, Chinese
:23:54. > :24:04.tradition, he used his own job state to put food on my plate. In a
:24:04. > :24:08.way, it was a great honour, but in another way, I felt fear. He was
:24:08. > :24:15.coughing too much, as he was a chain smoker. I was worried about
:24:15. > :24:23.germs. You have been in exile from Tibet for well over 50 years, but
:24:23. > :24:33.do you think you will ever go back? Tibetans want me to return as soon
:24:33. > :24:34.
:24:34. > :24:44.as possible, before they are dead. More sensible people, more educated,
:24:44. > :24:49.also politically sensitive people, their message is that under the
:24:49. > :24:56.present circumstances I should remain outside. Stay outside?
:24:56. > :25:02.I side in a free country. You can do more for us in a free country.
:25:02. > :25:08.If you return, you will become like a prisoner. Back in Tibet, there
:25:09. > :25:15.has been a terrible outbreak of people burning themselves alive.
:25:15. > :25:25.This must come from a sense of desperation. What do you feel about
:25:25. > :25:32.
:25:32. > :25:37.that movement? A tis very sad, very sad. -- it is very sad. Burning
:25:37. > :25:45.yourself is a very sensitive political issue. Since I retired, I
:25:45. > :25:53.prefer to remain silent. In the meantime, since the first events
:25:53. > :25:58.happened, Chinese leaders should carry out a thorough investigation
:25:58. > :26:02.into the causes of these sad events. You are in this country speaking to
:26:02. > :26:06.people at a time when there is a great deal of upset and unease
:26:06. > :26:11.about the economy, people are worried about the future and their
:26:11. > :26:17.own jobs. Why have you, at this time and what is your message to
:26:17. > :26:26.people who are worried about their economic and personal futures?
:26:26. > :26:30.of the factors in this crisis is too much greed, and speculation.
:26:30. > :26:40.Speculation means that without knowing exactly what is happening,
:26:40. > :26:47.people do things according to their own wishes. These economists, it is
:26:47. > :26:53.a temporary benefit or profit, rather than the long term. When I
:26:53. > :27:00.was in China, I learnt about the Marxist economy. There are the
:27:00. > :27:10.emphasis is on equal distribution rather than just profit. I think
:27:10. > :27:17.this problem is created by our self. Therefore, we also have the ability
:27:17. > :27:24.to overcome this problem. Secondly, in spite of these difficulties, we
:27:24. > :27:31.should not give up hope. We must keep our determination and self
:27:31. > :27:38.confidence, that is very important. Due to some problems, we should not
:27:38. > :27:45.be demoralised. You never recover from that. In spite of these
:27:45. > :27:53.problems, keep your optimistic attitude and sooner or later, we
:27:53. > :27:58.will overcome them. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you.
:27:58. > :28:02.It's the Dalai Lama. As a proportion of national income,
:28:02. > :28:06.the UK is now one of the world's most generous donors of
:28:06. > :28:11.international aid. The government wants to make British taxpayers
:28:11. > :28:15.more aware of how their money is spent. But at a time of austerity
:28:15. > :28:21.at home, can the budget for International Development be
:28:21. > :28:25.justified? I am joined by the Secretary of State, Andrew Mitchell.
:28:25. > :28:29.You are announcing that you are going to stamp British aid in
:28:29. > :28:39.future with a mark, showing where it comes from. We can see an
:28:39. > :28:42.
:28:42. > :28:48.example of that, and my question is, what is the point of this? Why are
:28:48. > :28:51.we doing it? I think it is important that all around the world
:28:51. > :28:58.where British aid is saving and transforming lives, the British
:28:58. > :29:03.public gets the credit for this. There was a previous logo which
:29:03. > :29:09.cost �100,000 to develop, which said it a bit from the Department
:29:09. > :29:15.of International Development. We are replacing this at no cost with
:29:15. > :29:19.a flag that is identifiable all round the world to everybody. This
:29:19. > :29:29.will enable us to take the credit for these remarkable results we're
:29:29. > :29:31.
:29:31. > :29:37.achieving around the world, we are getting 11 million children into
:29:37. > :29:42.school up at 2.5 % of the cost of educating a British child. We are
:29:43. > :29:47.delivering value for money from this Budget. In a sense, this is
:29:47. > :29:51.reassurance for people back home, some of whom, including in your own
:29:51. > :29:56.party, think that at a time of austerity it is wrong that your
:29:56. > :30:00.budget is the only one that is guaranteed to keep going? It is
:30:00. > :30:05.making sure that people in the poorest parts of the world know
:30:05. > :30:10.that this is Britain's standing by its commitments and delivering. For
:30:10. > :30:15.under 1% of gross national income, this is a tremendous investment,
:30:15. > :30:20.not only in the future stability and prosperity of some of the
:30:20. > :30:25.poorest and most dysfunctional parts of the world, it is an
:30:25. > :30:28.investment in Britain's future prosperity and stability. Lots of
:30:28. > :30:34.people are worried that the next generation will not be able to do
:30:35. > :30:40.as well and prosper in the way that our generation has done, and the
:30:40. > :30:50.development budget is an investment in the future of our Chavasse --
:30:50. > :30:51.
:30:51. > :30:56.Why was the commitment to the international target not enshrined
:30:56. > :31:02.in law in the Queen's Speech? People expected that and it was an
:31:02. > :31:07.odd omission. The key thing is we are standing by our commitments and
:31:07. > :31:13.from 20 13th we will reach 0.7. was it not put into the Queen's
:31:13. > :31:16.Speech? It will be put into law. The Bill will proceed when the
:31:16. > :31:22.business managers say. Is this because the Conservative Party is
:31:22. > :31:27.neuralgic about this? No, we stand by our commitment, the law will
:31:27. > :31:32.come, but declaratory legislation should take second preference to
:31:32. > :31:41.the legislation which has been passed. It will be enshrined in
:31:41. > :31:45.law? Yes, it will. You have major conferences every so often giving
:31:46. > :31:51.you a sense of direction for aid in the coming year and this week you
:31:51. > :31:55.have got one on fertility issues and contraception. Every year we
:31:55. > :31:59.tried to do something which can both make a huge contribution to
:31:59. > :32:04.the lives of the poorest in the world and also demonstrate to
:32:04. > :32:10.British taxpayers why it is a difficult time for our economy and
:32:10. > :32:12.why we stand by these commitments. Last year it was the emphasis on
:32:12. > :32:17.vaccinating children and as a result of the effort we put
:32:17. > :32:22.together last year, Britain will be inoculating a child every two
:32:22. > :32:28.seconds and saving the life of a child every two minutes. These are
:32:28. > :32:32.not exotic, tropical diseases. It is diarrhoea, pneumonia and measles.
:32:32. > :32:37.That was last year and it was a tremendous success and we have
:32:37. > :32:43.exceeded the target and the results we wanted to achieve. This year it
:32:43. > :32:47.will be a family planning summit in London which we are co-hosting with
:32:47. > :32:52.the Bill Gates Foundation. We will be seeking to get political and
:32:52. > :32:56.financial support to reduce by 100 million the number of women in the
:32:56. > :33:03.poorest parts of the world who want access to contraception and do not
:33:03. > :33:06.have it. We are trying to ensure that women in the poorest parts of
:33:06. > :33:12.the world are able to make decisions themselves over whether
:33:12. > :33:16.and when they will have Jordan. It will completely transformed the
:33:16. > :33:21.lives of more than 100 million of the poorest women in the world.
:33:21. > :33:26.This comes straight up against some pretty powerful cultural, religious
:33:26. > :33:30.and political barriers, plenty of places in the world where this is
:33:30. > :33:34.thought to be a fencer, foreign governments coming in and trying to
:33:34. > :33:40.control the reproductive abilities of women in Muslim and other
:33:40. > :33:47.traditional areas. It is absolutely not that. If you look at the
:33:47. > :33:53.Nairobi consensus there is nothing against what we are doing. It is to
:33:53. > :33:57.enable women who want access to contraception cut -- to exercise
:33:57. > :34:01.their own right. It will save the lives of millions of women and more
:34:01. > :34:06.than 3 million babies in their first year of life as a result.
:34:06. > :34:11.What happens to Africa if the population carries on rising at
:34:12. > :34:16.this rate? That is another matter and it is relevant but what we are
:34:16. > :34:20.trying to do in London is fair square behind empowering women,
:34:20. > :34:24.allowing women in the poorest parts of the world to make their own
:34:24. > :34:30.decisions, decisions which women in the rich world make every day.
:34:30. > :34:35.Let's turn to domestic concerns. The Archbishop of Canterbury is
:34:35. > :34:38.deriding the Big Society as waffled and suggesting actually it is a
:34:38. > :34:43.cover for the withdrawal of the state under a Conservative-led
:34:43. > :34:48.Government. A is absolutely not that. It is the reverse of that and
:34:48. > :34:52.we do not always explain it as well as we should. It is about crowding
:34:52. > :34:58.in all parts of society, the Government, local Government, the
:34:58. > :35:03.voluntary sector, civil society, to tackle these big, endemic problems
:35:03. > :35:07.which all of us have tried to articulate and tackle. The
:35:07. > :35:10.Archbishop and died will be announcing this week a joint effort
:35:10. > :35:16.between the Government and all faiths on tackling poverty in the
:35:16. > :35:19.poorest parts of the world. We have been working on this for a year. I
:35:19. > :35:23.think the headline belies the extraordinary amount of agreement
:35:23. > :35:28.on tackling poverty here and abroad which exists between this coalition
:35:28. > :35:35.Government and the Church of England. Any thoughts on the whole
:35:35. > :35:39.Jimmy Carr and tax avoidance. This is legal, but aggressive ways of
:35:39. > :35:44.avoiding paying income tax. Should people like that be morally Shand?
:35:44. > :35:48.Everybody should pay their tax. That is the key message the
:35:48. > :35:52.Government is making. It is extremely important, not least at a
:35:52. > :35:55.time like this when money is incredibly tight, that people pay
:35:55. > :36:00.their tax and that is the central message of the Government. Andrew
:36:00. > :36:06.Mitchell, thank you very much. One of the most exciting arrivals on
:36:06. > :36:09.the classical music scene has been the Simon Bolivar Orchestra from
:36:09. > :36:14.Venezuela which emerged through a radical music programme called El
:36:14. > :36:20.Sistema which gets children from poorer backgrounds and immerses
:36:20. > :36:25.them in music from a very early age. Its conductor Gustavo Dudamel are
:36:25. > :36:29.currently in the UK. Last Thursday they launched the Cultural Olympiad
:36:29. > :36:32.with an open-air concert at Stirling in Scotland where local
:36:32. > :36:37.children from one of the tougher areas have their own version of El
:36:37. > :36:40.Sistema. Now the Venezuelans are playing at the South Bank Centre in
:36:41. > :36:50.London and I met Gustavo Dudamel where he told me more about El
:36:51. > :36:52.
:36:52. > :36:58.Sistema. It is an artistic, social programme that already has around
:36:58. > :37:02.400,000 children and young people playing. In Venezuela? 400,000
:37:02. > :37:09.children are playing classical? And these are kids who have come from
:37:09. > :37:15.poor backgrounds? A big percentage is coming from disadvantaged
:37:15. > :37:22.conditions. What is it about an orchestra that is so good at
:37:22. > :37:28.reclaiming children and giving them a chance? You can see the change in
:37:28. > :37:35.a child when he or she has an instrument and they create their
:37:35. > :37:41.own world and they start to build a into a dream about a better life.
:37:41. > :37:49.Also in our orchestra, we are a community. We have to grow up
:37:49. > :37:54.together, together with 100 musicians next to you. You are
:37:54. > :37:58.making the same dream. To give beauty to people. When you were
:37:58. > :38:03.rehearsing, everybody is relying on everybody else and watching
:38:03. > :38:09.everybody else and moving together. An orchestra is the most beautiful
:38:09. > :38:13.example of a society. It is discipline. It is discipline, but
:38:13. > :38:18.at the same time it is creativity because you have to put your own
:38:18. > :38:23.creativity there, disharmony, disputed. It is art and all of
:38:23. > :38:29.these elements create not only a better musician, but a better
:38:29. > :38:35.citizen. A lot of people hope and wonder whether El Sistema can be
:38:35. > :38:41.exported to other countries. You started at London 2012 with a
:38:41. > :38:46.Scottish version of El Sistema, the big noise. That is a big
:38:46. > :38:50.inspiration for us. I remember when I saw the first rehearsals, but
:38:50. > :38:54.teachers trying to explain the instrument to the children and the
:38:54. > :39:00.discipline was a little bit difficult. Now when you see this
:39:00. > :39:05.orchestra, they are really small, they are aged between four and nine.
:39:05. > :39:11.For us we went back to where we started. It obviously went very
:39:11. > :39:16.well in Scotland. Absolutely. rain poured down and everyone was
:39:17. > :39:20.in their capes, but they stayed all the way through it. Yes, for an
:39:20. > :39:27.orchestra to play in the open air it is not easy because of the sound
:39:27. > :39:33.conditions. It was a little bit cold for a tropical Orchestra. But
:39:33. > :39:38.then it was amazing. How do you think the idea of the conductor has
:39:38. > :39:45.changed? In the old days conductors were quite forbidding, generally
:39:45. > :39:50.elderly, revered figures. We did not hear much about them. You let
:39:50. > :39:59.people in to see the orchestra rehearsing. You seem to want to
:39:59. > :40:05.demystify it. I think times change. We have different conditions in our
:40:05. > :40:11.society than we did 100 years ago. The most important thing is that we
:40:11. > :40:16.have to change the view that the people have of classical music. AC
:40:16. > :40:23.classical music as something boring, but at the same time that concept
:40:23. > :40:29.is coming because it is so elitist. This is music for the rich, or
:40:29. > :40:33.music for people who have the chance to get rich. The orchestra
:40:33. > :40:41.not only has to wait for the people to come to them, we also have to go
:40:41. > :40:50.to the community like in Raploch where we played for around 8000
:40:50. > :40:57.people. We went to the community. I think maybe 80% of the audience, it
:40:57. > :41:02.was the first time they listened to classical music. And what about the
:41:02. > :41:05.Simon Bolivar Orchestra itself? You started together very young and you
:41:05. > :41:13.have grown up together and most of you are in your thirties now.
:41:13. > :41:18.Almost. Are you changing as an orchestra? I say to the
:41:18. > :41:23.professional orchestras that I conduct, when I say a little bit of
:41:23. > :41:28.routine, let's remember when you were young and when we started to
:41:29. > :41:34.play, when we were studying and when we were in love with music and
:41:35. > :41:40.we were fighting to get to this position where we are now. That is
:41:40. > :41:45.beautiful because you can change in age, but the spirit has to be the
:41:46. > :41:54.same. We have to bring music to people and that is our dream.
:41:54. > :41:57.you are living it. We are living dead. Thank you. A big pleasure.
:41:57. > :42:01.unconventional maestro at the Royal Festival Hall. We will be hearing
:42:01. > :42:06.more from the Simon Bolivar Orchestra at the end of the show.
:42:06. > :42:10.It is 15 years since Tony Blair entered Downing Street after his
:42:10. > :42:15.first election landslide and this week sees the anniversary of his
:42:15. > :42:19.exit, five years ago. He has continued his role in the Middle
:42:19. > :42:25.East, he has written his memoirs and enjoyed a lucrative career in
:42:25. > :42:30.business. It is reported he is more keen to take a role in domestic
:42:30. > :42:35.politics in support of Ed Miliband and Labour. We welcome on to
:42:35. > :42:39.domestic politics in a moment, but can we start about the euro crisis.
:42:39. > :42:44.We have had a warning from the Spanish premier there is only a
:42:44. > :42:51.week to save the Europe. Fundamentally, how serious is this
:42:51. > :42:56.for Britain? It is fundamental for Europe and for Britain. The only
:42:56. > :42:59.thing that will save the single currency now is in a sense a grand
:42:59. > :43:06.plan in which Germany is prepared to commit its economy fully to the
:43:06. > :43:11.single currency. That means treating the DEC's of one as the
:43:11. > :43:17.debt of all, which is very hard for Germany to do. It means those other
:43:17. > :43:22.countries in the euro-zone that need to reform need to deliver the
:43:22. > :43:26.programmes of reform so that Europe can regain its competitiveness.
:43:26. > :43:30.Otherwise it is unfair to ask Germany to pay, but that is what is
:43:30. > :43:35.necessary now. German paying for the others and without that the
:43:35. > :43:38.euro is doomed? It is hard to see otherwise how you have countries
:43:39. > :43:44.whose economies are in a very different state of development
:43:44. > :43:48.operating within a single zone. Europe in a sense has been
:43:48. > :43:55.presented with a choice on the one hand of austerity plus reform, but
:43:55. > :44:01.on the other hand growth and no reform. It needs growth plus reform.
:44:01. > :44:07.It means reform of public welfare, the role of the state, pensions and
:44:07. > :44:12.so on. Within Europe what has happened is the single currency's
:44:12. > :44:18.design flaw was motivated by politics and delivered in economics.
:44:18. > :44:22.What had to happen once the country joined the euro economy, they had
:44:22. > :44:27.to adjust their economies and they did not. Now they are having to do
:44:27. > :44:33.that in a time of crisis. It is really tough asking countries to do
:44:33. > :44:36.Daz unless they have got growth and hopes of employment. That takes us
:44:36. > :44:43.took a hard core, much more are fused together central Europe and
:44:43. > :44:47.we are still on the outside of it. That is a big challenge for Britain.
:44:47. > :44:53.Whatever happens in the euro-zone now, if it collapses or if it stays,
:44:54. > :44:57.you are going to get major change in Europe. You will have a coming
:44:57. > :45:03.together in the so-called fiscal compact, a huge support for banking
:45:03. > :45:07.union in Europe and a political reconstruction of Europe. If you
:45:07. > :45:11.are going to exercise more control over the economy is in the single
:45:11. > :45:17.currency zone, people will want the political accountability that comes
:45:17. > :45:21.with that. In any event there is going to be a huge reconstruction
:45:21. > :45:25.of Europe going on. For Britain we have got to make sure we are part
:45:25. > :45:35.of that and we have to argue the case for it and argue it on our own
:45:35. > :45:37.
:45:37. > :45:44.After the latest volume of Alastair Campbell's diaries, it might be
:45:44. > :45:49.said that say what you like about Gordon Brown, but he kept us out of
:45:49. > :45:58.the euro. You wanted us to be in the euro. On that at least, you
:45:58. > :46:03.must say, good old Gordon Brown. the economics he was always right.
:46:03. > :46:07.Politically, I was always in favour of keeping us positive towards the
:46:07. > :46:14.project if European integration and able to join at any time we wanted
:46:14. > :46:18.to do so. I think the same is true today. The thing that is important
:46:18. > :46:21.for our country is to understand that the Eurozone is undergoing a
:46:21. > :46:27.massive crisis, the most existential crisis since its
:46:27. > :46:32.inception, however, take a step back and look at the broad sweep of
:46:32. > :46:37.history. Because of the way the world is changing today, the size
:46:37. > :46:42.and power of India, China. Take a country like Indonesia, we do not
:46:42. > :46:47.know much about it here, but its economy is three times the size of
:46:47. > :46:53.Germany. In the long term, the project of European integration
:46:53. > :46:59.will go ahead. It is important we are part of that, 60 million people
:46:59. > :47:03.in a small nation, if we want to exercise influence, we must do it
:47:03. > :47:10.through the European Union. Do you think that means we will have to be
:47:10. > :47:15.part of the euro one day? Is the sort it all out and Europe moves
:47:15. > :47:19.forward again, Britain will have an interesting choice in the future.
:47:19. > :47:24.Even if they have to reconstruct the euro as a result of what has
:47:24. > :47:28.happened, supposing the worst happens. Take a step back and look
:47:28. > :47:35.at this not in terms of an electoral cycle, batted
:47:35. > :47:40.generational cycle. The European project is there. Where does
:47:41. > :47:44.democracy fit into this? The that is a good question. You can only
:47:44. > :47:49.have a democracy where everyone speaks the same language and
:47:49. > :47:55.understand each other. It is difficult to see that happening
:47:55. > :47:59.across 22 different countries. Absolutely. One of the reasons it
:47:59. > :48:04.is important that Britain is still there, building alliances and
:48:04. > :48:09.arguing its case, is that in the politics of Europe we have
:48:09. > :48:14.something very unique to contribute. Our political system is in many
:48:14. > :48:18.ways the most effective. In my experience of dealing with the
:48:18. > :48:23.European Union, I would say that the British, when the exert
:48:23. > :48:29.themselves, usually get their way. When this political reconstruction
:48:29. > :48:34.happens, it is important that we are part of that. We have short-
:48:34. > :48:38.term choices about how we manage the situation, but the only way to
:48:38. > :48:45.preserve the euro is a sort of grand plan, these incremental
:48:45. > :48:49.changes with the Spanish banks are not enough. We need a fundamental
:48:49. > :48:53.plan that is put before people were the thing is sorted out, where we
:48:53. > :48:57.clean up the balance sheets of the banks, and organise reform
:48:57. > :49:01.programmes in these various countries. In the long term there
:49:01. > :49:07.is a reconstruction of Europe in which our country has got to have
:49:07. > :49:13.its voice heard. There is a story in the Independent today, alleging
:49:13. > :49:18.that you, it says, the last street, how Tony Blair misled the Cabinet
:49:18. > :49:23.over Iraq. The allegation coming from Alastair Campbell's diaries is
:49:23. > :49:28.that you did not want the then Attorney-General, Lord Goldsmith,
:49:28. > :49:34.to present both sides of the case, the case that the war was legal,
:49:34. > :49:42.because it would be too dangerous in cabinet. Is this true? It is not
:49:42. > :49:48.true. We went through this at the Chilcot inquiry. I will never win
:49:48. > :49:53.this argument with people like the Independent. It is worth
:49:53. > :50:00.remembering two interesting anniversaries that have occurred
:50:00. > :50:06.recently. One is the use of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons against
:50:07. > :50:11.a Kurdish town. The second is the anniversary of the Iran Iraq war,
:50:11. > :50:16.where we should remember that hundreds of thousands of conscript
:50:16. > :50:20.Iranians lost their lives, again through the use of chemical weapons.
:50:20. > :50:25.That is something which triggered the Iranian interest in developing
:50:25. > :50:29.nuclear weapons. I understand why people still have is disagreement
:50:29. > :50:35.over Iraq, but we should at least understand there is a balanced
:50:35. > :50:40.perspective on it. Just to be absolutely clear, because the
:50:40. > :50:44.question of what cabinet government really is is relevant. It is not
:50:44. > :50:48.true that you stop there being a proper discussion of the legal case
:50:48. > :50:55.with the Attorney General quitting his position in front of cat mac,
:50:55. > :50:59.because people disagreed? It is absolutely not true. People had
:50:59. > :51:04.their point of view. The notion that Cabinet never discussed this
:51:04. > :51:11.issue is absurd. I understand while people disagree over it, but there
:51:11. > :51:19.is no great head and -- but there is no great hidden conspiracy over
:51:19. > :51:23.this. When you look at the Middle- East today, in the broad sweep of
:51:23. > :51:27.history, people will take a different view. We're still waiting
:51:27. > :51:32.to hear the formal result of the Egyptian elections but it looks
:51:32. > :51:37.likely that the Muslim Brotherhood candidate will win. That seems to
:51:37. > :51:43.be the sense. What is your reflection on the problem that the
:51:43. > :51:49.more democracy you get, we are in favour of democracy, but democracy
:51:49. > :51:53.may well deliver Islamist people in power, because we have seen that
:51:53. > :52:00.Christians in Syria are now very worried about what happens when the
:52:00. > :52:03.President goes. What is the answer? The answer is to understand that
:52:03. > :52:08.the Arab Revolution which is continuing and will carry on, I do
:52:08. > :52:13.not collet and Arab Spring, it is a revolution, it will continue across
:52:13. > :52:19.the whole region and beyond. It is not like the fall of the Berlin
:52:19. > :52:24.Wall. This is a mistake for western analysts to think this. In the case
:52:24. > :52:28.of the Berlin Wall, people from the east looked over the wall and there
:52:28. > :52:34.was a united view. They wondered what we had in the West stand by
:52:34. > :52:40.and large they got it. Here, there are two views about what happens
:52:40. > :52:47.when you lift the lid off these dictators. One is about secularity
:52:47. > :52:50.and modernisation. The other is about religion. You cannot
:52:50. > :52:57.understand the Middle-East unless you understand the importance of
:52:57. > :53:02.religion. Those things are not reconcilable? Absolutely. For the
:53:02. > :53:06.West, we should realise, and this is unfortunate, we have two
:53:06. > :53:14.problems at the same time for Western leaders, Europe and the
:53:14. > :53:20.Middle East. These different crisis is are together. -- are these
:53:20. > :53:24.different issues are together. We should be supporting the evolution
:53:24. > :53:30.across the Middle East. We should understand that revolution will
:53:30. > :53:34.throw up very dangerous and toxic forces. What is necessary is to
:53:34. > :53:40.understand that short term, this is going to be really difficult. In
:53:40. > :53:45.the long term, this is good. People in the Middle-East want freedom.
:53:45. > :53:50.The bad news is that they will be struggling to get to a form of
:53:50. > :53:56.democracy that is genuinely open. Five years since you left Downing
:53:56. > :54:00.Street. We read that you want to take a roll again in British public
:54:01. > :54:06.life again. Lots of the issues that you struggled with her back on the
:54:06. > :54:12.front pages, immigration, for instance. Ed Miliband says that
:54:12. > :54:18.Labour got it wrong over immigration? Is that a fair point?
:54:18. > :54:22.It is fair in some ways. I actually took this decision and in some ways
:54:22. > :54:27.I do not regret it, because the Polish community and other
:54:27. > :54:33.communities from Eastern Europe do good work in our country. But I
:54:33. > :54:36.understand how there is a marked sensitivity about that. We fought
:54:36. > :54:42.the 2005 election on immigration with the then Conservative leader
:54:42. > :54:47.wanted to make that a point of attack for us. We had a policy at
:54:47. > :54:53.the time, identity cards, which have gone out of fashion. I still
:54:53. > :54:57.think they are the only way to deal with the problem. Many people in
:54:57. > :55:01.Britain can see that immigrants have made a great contribution to
:55:01. > :55:06.our country. It is where it is uncontrolled, and you have
:55:06. > :55:12.organised crime and drugs and so on. That is very specific from certain
:55:12. > :55:18.parts. What about the party generally, because there has been a
:55:18. > :55:21.debate about his future, we hear about blue Labour, Jon Cruddas,
:55:21. > :55:30.going back to connect to some of the core supporters who may have
:55:30. > :55:35.drifted away during the new Labour leader it -- during the years of
:55:35. > :55:40.New Labour. What is your reflection on this? Those people who feared
:55:40. > :55:45.that Labour would go like we did in 1979 when we were defeated and went
:55:45. > :55:51.crazy for a few years, we are not, we are going to be in contention at
:55:51. > :55:55.the next election. That is a tribute to the leadership.
:55:55. > :55:59.surprise that Ed Miliband has done better than you may have feared at
:55:59. > :56:05.the beginning? I have always thought that Ed Miliband was a
:56:06. > :56:12.smart man. I was a supporter of David, because I worked closely
:56:12. > :56:21.with him and I admire him very much. I am still unashamedly a supporter
:56:21. > :56:30.of the Third Way. The way that politics is going this -- it today,
:56:30. > :56:36.you need a progressive view. For me, playing a part in British politics,
:56:37. > :56:41.I have spent five years building a brand new life. I have two major
:56:41. > :56:46.global foundations, one of which works in Africa, the other is about
:56:46. > :56:54.religious extremism and how we get different fates working together. I
:56:54. > :56:58.have just come back from my 86 a visit to the Middle East. So is
:56:58. > :57:04.there another big job for you in terms of the Middle East? I have
:57:04. > :57:08.always said that I am a public service person first. I it was
:57:08. > :57:14.happy as Prime Minister. But if I am not doing that, I'm going to
:57:14. > :57:19.make a difference in another way. Where I can contribute, I will if
:57:19. > :57:25.people want to listen. In case they want to listen, what about Jimmy
:57:25. > :57:32.Carr? Tax avoidance rather than evasion? Any sympathy for him?
:57:32. > :57:36.think the mood on this has changed. What people would not have cared
:57:36. > :57:41.about a few years back, if you are in a time of economic difficulty
:57:41. > :57:49.and austerity, they care about these things. I do not want to
:57:49. > :57:53.single out one person. The mood on this debate has changed. This is a
:57:53. > :58:03.tough time and people need to know that the pain is being shared.
:58:03. > :58:06.
:58:06. > :58:08.Blair, thank you very much. That is all we have time for. Next Sunday,
:58:08. > :58:11.I'll be talking to the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, the actor
:58:11. > :58:14.Mark Rylance, and the American civil rights activist Jesse Jackson.
:58:14. > :58:17.He's in London for a big debate on Tuesday about hip-hop culture,