:00:09. > :00:14.Good morning up from a slightly blustery Manchester, where two
:00:14. > :00:19.years ago, to the surprise of some people who thought they were shrewd
:00:19. > :00:23.commentators, a certain Ed Miliband was chosen as leader of the Labour
:00:23. > :00:27.Party. That was partly thanks to the trade unions, of course. This
:00:27. > :00:30.morning, one of the biggest trade union leaders warns Ed Miliband
:00:30. > :00:36.that he will be consigned to the dustbin of history if he doesn't
:00:36. > :00:41.change course. And that was supposed to be a friend! So, this
:00:41. > :00:51.week, in this town, can Ed Miliband that show Britain that he has got
:00:51. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:23.what it takes to be our next Prime In some ways, Labour is doing
:01:23. > :01:26.pretty well. There are no audible plots, few visible splits and a
:01:26. > :01:30.poll rating which, if match at a general election, would see them
:01:31. > :01:34.back in government. But there are also more ominous signs, worries
:01:34. > :01:40.about a lack of care policies, perhaps above all on coping with
:01:40. > :01:44.the deficit. There is union anger, and Ed Miliband's personal ratings,
:01:44. > :01:47.which are persistently poor compared to David Cameron. He has
:01:47. > :01:51.got a job to do that this Labour conference selling his party and
:01:51. > :01:55.selling himself. In a little while, I will be talking to Mr Miliband.
:01:55. > :01:59.Can he cut through the wonkish jargon and give us a clear sense of
:01:59. > :02:03.what Labour in government would do? There is no shortage of advice for
:02:03. > :02:06.him in the Sunday papers. Matthew Parris of the Times and Polly
:02:06. > :02:10.Toynbee of the Guardian are here to fillet and slice their way through
:02:10. > :02:15.them. And as we reflect on relations between Labour and the
:02:15. > :02:18.unions, viewers of a certain age may think back to the wild and
:02:18. > :02:22.turbulent politics of the '70s. Ed Miliband is too young to remember
:02:22. > :02:26.that, but a new play at the National Theatre is set inside the
:02:26. > :02:31.Commons back then, as earlier Labour politicians fight for their
:02:31. > :02:35.political life. Its star, Philip Glenister, no stranger to the 1970s,
:02:35. > :02:39.has been telling me about his role as a tough-talking government whip.
:02:39. > :02:46.And we have a track from an up-and- coming singer who lives just around
:02:46. > :02:51.the corner from here. # Don't think I don't know so much
:02:51. > :02:54.about you, boy. Salford's own Ren Harvieu, she of
:02:54. > :02:59.the soaring Dusty Springfield vocals, will be singing as out
:02:59. > :03:02.later. First, over to Naga for the morning's headlines.
:03:02. > :03:07.Should the Labour leader Ed Miliband has threatened to break up
:03:07. > :03:10.Britain's banks if he wins power in the next election. Speaking ahead
:03:10. > :03:14.of the Labour Party conference, he said Britain's high street banks
:03:14. > :03:20.are not acting quickly enough with reforms designed to protect
:03:20. > :03:23.customers' money. Do you know who Ed Miliband is?
:03:23. > :03:28.Were in you want to be the prime minister, the first trick is
:03:28. > :03:33.getting noticed. Ed Miliband came to his conference with a plan to do
:03:33. > :03:37.just that. The government has said it will ring-fence the deposits of
:03:37. > :03:40.ordinary people from the risks of investment banking. But Labour is
:03:40. > :03:45.not convinced. They accuse ministers of caving in to pressure
:03:46. > :03:49.from those who want the plan watered down. Labour's leader says
:03:49. > :03:57.if high-street banks don't operate in a genuinely independent way from
:03:57. > :04:02.investment banks, Labour would change the law to force them to
:04:02. > :04:06.split up. It is a clear attempt to paint himself as a challenger to
:04:06. > :04:10.banks. But everyone in politics knows that they remain far from
:04:10. > :04:14.popular with voters. But Ed Miliband has to convince union
:04:14. > :04:18.leaders, unhappy that he has backed public sector pay restraint.
:04:18. > :04:23.Speaking to the Sunday Times, the leader of the Unite union said his
:04:23. > :04:28.members were furious about that, and he pledged to kick the New
:04:28. > :04:33.Labour cuckoos out of our nest. All of which leaves Ed Miliband with a
:04:33. > :04:37.lot of persuading to do. Two women from Britain and
:04:37. > :04:41.Australia who were kidnapped in Ecuador have been rescued. The
:04:41. > :04:44.Ecuadorian authorities said the tourists were visiting a jungle
:04:44. > :04:48.nature reserve in the Tarapoa province near the border with
:04:48. > :04:51.Colombia. The women were put on Friday by what was thought to be a
:04:52. > :04:54.Colombian group, but police and armed forces staff found them
:04:54. > :04:57.yesterday. Police officers who have been
:04:57. > :05:02.killed on duty will be remembered during a service at York Minster
:05:02. > :05:06.this afternoon to mark National Police Memorial Day. More than 2000
:05:06. > :05:08.people are expected to attend the event, which will include special
:05:09. > :05:12.dedications to the two officers killed in Greater Manchester
:05:12. > :05:16.earlier this month. A British woman is reported to be
:05:16. > :05:21.missing in southern Spain after flash floods devastated houses and
:05:21. > :05:24.roads. The 52-year-old is understood to have been in the
:05:24. > :05:27.province of Almeria. At least 10 people have died during the
:05:27. > :05:35.torrential rain in the region, and thousands of homes have been
:05:35. > :05:39.evacuated. Many residents in this large area
:05:39. > :05:43.of southern Spain are already clearing up. As they wade through
:05:43. > :05:50.mud and debris, counting the cost of this freak weather, a British
:05:50. > :05:54.woman remains missing. Across this largely poor part of Spain, the
:05:54. > :06:02.heavy rains fell, almost 10 inches of it on Friday morning the loan.
:06:02. > :06:06.And it kept coming, taking cars, roads and bridges with it. For a
:06:06. > :06:12.30,000 hectares have been hit, estimates the mayor of Lord Coe,
:06:12. > :06:21.including many houses. And this Corona describes the river of water
:06:21. > :06:24.taking cars with it. His bar, he says, is ruined. A rescuers have
:06:24. > :06:29.been if using any means possible to take the victims to safety. At
:06:29. > :06:36.least 600 homes across the region had to be evacuated as the water
:06:36. > :06:40.rose. This largely farming area has experienced a summer of misery.
:06:40. > :06:46.Severe droughts lead to thousands of wildfires, and now the rains are
:06:46. > :06:50.washing away their homes and livelihoods, and taking lives.
:06:50. > :06:55.You would think that an albino humpback whale would be hard to
:06:55. > :06:59.miss, but this amazing beast has proved elusive in the deep blue sea.
:06:59. > :07:05.That was until he appeared off the Australian coast in the first
:07:05. > :07:10.confirmed sighting since 2009. Known as Migaloo, which is
:07:10. > :07:14.Aboriginal for "white fella", the rare whale showed off by breaching
:07:14. > :07:20.an swimming right up to the watching boats as he made his way
:07:20. > :07:26.to the chilly Antarctic waters for his annual migration.
:07:26. > :07:32.From our been a whilst Andrew. More headlines just before 10 o'clock.
:07:32. > :07:37.Migaloo to you, too! And so to the front pages. There is
:07:37. > :07:40.the Observer, which had the Ed Miliband interview about the
:07:40. > :07:46.British banks, promising that they will be broken up, with a picture
:07:46. > :07:50.of him arriving with his children and partner in Manchester. The
:07:50. > :07:55.papers are, of course, still fascinated by the missing
:07:55. > :08:01.schoolgirl, now returned, and her school teacher. There is the Sunday
:08:01. > :08:05.Express. The sum on Sunday is going with the same story. Got him, it
:08:05. > :08:10.says. David Walliams is talking about his battle with depression.
:08:10. > :08:15.Jack Straw was talking about the same thing last week. The
:08:15. > :08:19.Independent on Sunday have got an interview with Rachel Reeves, a
:08:19. > :08:23.rising star in the Labour firmament. She is in charge of public spending
:08:23. > :08:32.and has also announced that she is pregnant, but will not call the
:08:32. > :08:39.baby Ed. Scotland on Sunday has Labour seeking more powers for
:08:39. > :08:44.Holyrood. Finally, the Sunday Telegraph. For the third week
:08:44. > :08:48.running, they are running a major old-fashioned newspaper campaign
:08:48. > :08:54.against what they say is my spending and extravagance in
:08:54. > :08:58.Britain's a campaign. There are pages and pages it inside about
:08:58. > :09:06.that. Polly Toynbee and matter Paris are here to review the papers
:09:06. > :09:10.as promised. Let's start with the politics. Let's go to that
:09:10. > :09:17.photograph you mentioned. Ed Miliband and his wife and their
:09:17. > :09:21.children arriving at the conference. Like all party leader photographs,
:09:21. > :09:28.this one is very carefully set up. Ed Miliband looking very relaxed in
:09:29. > :09:32.a grey jumper and cramped moccasin- style shoes. The couple are looking
:09:32. > :09:36.very much the happy family coming for a holiday, rather than a
:09:36. > :09:40.conference. This is because Ed's people want to rebut the idea that
:09:40. > :09:45.there is something a bit cold or pointy headed about him. People who
:09:45. > :09:48.know Ed Miliband recognised the Ed Miliband in this picture better
:09:48. > :09:52.than the cold picture. A Labour politicians are mostly very
:09:52. > :09:56.reluctant to do that. We have had more of Cameron and kids, and
:09:56. > :10:00.everybody knows what they look like. It is more like a once a year,
:10:00. > :10:05.gritted teeth thing for Labour politicians to do. The Observer has
:10:06. > :10:10.a big interview with Ed Miliband today. Andrew Rawnsley says the big
:10:10. > :10:17.test is to make voters see him as prime minister. That is the theme
:10:17. > :10:26.of all the papers. Can he shed some of but earnestness, wonkishness and
:10:26. > :10:33.document, not used strange words? Will his authenticity actually be
:10:33. > :10:38.more important than what spin- doctors did to Cameron? Up I said
:10:38. > :10:43.earlier that the opinion polls showed that his personal ratings
:10:43. > :10:46.were not great. They are pretty terrible. Yes, but they often are
:10:46. > :10:51.when people don't really know a leader. It is true that he has a
:10:51. > :10:54.cool demeanour or, but he has dignity and stature. Andrew
:10:54. > :10:57.Rawnsley in that piece starts by saying that when he was asked
:10:57. > :11:01.whether the country could see him as prime minister, he said, that is
:11:01. > :11:05.for the country to say. Andrew Rawnsley quotes that as an example
:11:06. > :11:10.of his detachment, but it is a dignified answer. You don't say,
:11:10. > :11:14.yes, I think the country can see me as prime minister. I like the
:11:14. > :11:18.stature there is about him. Everybody comments on how egg
:11:18. > :11:21.relaxed he is under fire. His ratings have shot up. He has not
:11:21. > :11:27.quite reached Cameron, but Cameron's have plunged down, so
:11:27. > :11:32.Labour is hoping that at some point, the lines will cross. Cameron, at
:11:32. > :11:41.this stage before the last election, was seen as less prime-ministerial
:11:41. > :11:46.than Gordon Brown. So it shows how things can change. A helpful or not
:11:46. > :11:51.intervention by Len McCluskey, the trade union leader. 70% of Labour's
:11:51. > :11:57.money comes from the trade unions. This is the front of the Sunday
:11:57. > :12:02.Times. The general secretary of unite, which gives Labour a huge
:12:02. > :12:06.sums of money. He has said Unite would no longer fund MPs whose
:12:07. > :12:12.views were not in line with the union's aims. I think it is
:12:12. > :12:15.terribly important, if Ed Miliband is to make his peace, to woo the
:12:15. > :12:21.British electorate and deal with this question of the trade unions.
:12:21. > :12:24.Whether or not they exercise an undue or malign influence on the
:12:24. > :12:27.Labour Party, people think they do. If Ed Miliband could do anything
:12:27. > :12:31.about that this week, he would be surprised at what it did for his
:12:31. > :12:35.writings. The fact that he has given an interview to the Sunday
:12:35. > :12:38.Times is extraordinary, for someone like Len McCluskey. It makes him
:12:39. > :12:45.seem irrelevant to the sorts of discussions that are going on in
:12:45. > :12:50.labour at the moment. And here is the anti dinosaur person, which
:12:50. > :12:55.will Reeves. As you said, a rising star, doing tremendously well --
:12:55. > :13:01.Rachel Reeves. I have heard her making absolute humdingers of
:13:01. > :13:05.speeches. Full of facts and information, and very confident. At
:13:05. > :13:07.the women's conference yesterday, she was terrifically heralded.
:13:07. > :13:11.Incidentally, the women's conference was full of women who
:13:11. > :13:15.were really angry about what was happening locally to care services,
:13:15. > :13:22.to Sure Start for children. This Labour conference needs to capture
:13:23. > :13:26.some of that anger. Let's keep going with the papers. I have
:13:26. > :13:34.always believed that most of what happens in politics goes completely
:13:34. > :13:37.above the heads of most voters. In the Sunday Times, here is advice
:13:37. > :13:42.for any MP struggling to explain the details of their policy.
:13:42. > :13:46.Labour's Chris Bryant says he met a lady of 35. Asked how she might
:13:46. > :13:54.vote, he said, -- she said, that Tony Blair seems to be doing
:13:54. > :13:58.awfully well. What party is he? I once met someone who said they
:13:58. > :14:05.would vote for Shirley Williams because she would stop immigration
:14:05. > :14:09.and bring back hanging! Polly, you have chosen a non-political story,
:14:09. > :14:14.the missing schoolgirl. everybody has been riveted by this.
:14:14. > :14:18.Every parent's nightmare and every head teacher's nightmare. The
:14:18. > :14:22.Observer has a story on its front page, saying that the police are
:14:22. > :14:27.saying, for heaven's sake, don't do Baron -- don't abandon the European
:14:27. > :14:30.arrest warrant. We would never have got her back without it. Tory MPs
:14:30. > :14:35.sign everything that is against Europe and they say they want to
:14:35. > :14:40.get rid of this. But it is one of the things that really works well.
:14:40. > :14:44.It is commonsense, and let's hope they will all think again. I would
:14:44. > :14:47.be a hopeless magistrate, because I feel sorry for both these people.
:14:47. > :14:52.They have been silly and got themselves into such a mess, with
:14:52. > :14:57.this fairy-tale idea of escaping, which was never on the cards. I
:14:57. > :15:03.can't get as indignant as I feel sorry. I don't know, a 15-year-old,
:15:03. > :15:13.with her teacher, who has a huge amount of power. You are right.
:15:13. > :15:17.
:15:17. > :15:20.That is just not free will. You We should talk as well about the
:15:20. > :15:29.Church of England this morning, which is locked in some argument or
:15:29. > :15:35.other. Yes, the secret of choosing the Archbishop of Canterbury is
:15:35. > :15:39.rumoured to be deadlocked. It turns out that one of them is out because
:15:39. > :15:44.he is anti-women, another one is out because he is anti-gay. It
:15:44. > :15:48.strikes me, and here is a prediction that this particular
:15:48. > :15:54.bishop is going to win, because nobody knows what his views are on
:15:54. > :15:59.anything. Thank you very much. A anything. Thank you very much. A
:15:59. > :16:05.bit of American politics now? lovely picture, pretty much what
:16:05. > :16:15.Americans seem to be feeling about Mitt Romney. A baby screams as Mitt
:16:15. > :16:18.
:16:18. > :16:21.Romney picks up the baby. And there is a representation of the
:16:21. > :16:31.situation at the moment, because it seems as if his campaign is going
:16:31. > :16:36.
:16:36. > :16:39.from bad to worse. Politicians and babies! It never works. Here is his
:16:39. > :16:47.wife saying she's very worried about his mental well-being if he
:16:47. > :16:55.becomes president, which seems to me to be not very helpful, really.
:16:55. > :17:00.Is there time for the fattest cat in creation? This is a animal
:17:00. > :17:04.welfare charity, which is running a kind of competition, a kind of fat
:17:04. > :17:13.camp for animals, to help particularly fat animals get
:17:14. > :17:20.thinner. This Rottweiler now weighs 65 kilograms. I was in denial, says
:17:20. > :17:26.her owner. We did not realise she had problems until she could simply
:17:26. > :17:34.not stand up properly. So, that cat is the same weight as you? No, not
:17:34. > :17:42.the cat, The Rottweiler. I know you are very slight, but...! This is a
:17:42. > :17:49.list of overweight animals, starting with Fifi, the enormous
:17:49. > :17:59.cat. I was the owner of a voraciously greedy cat myself, so I
:17:59. > :18:02.
:18:02. > :18:08.take great interest in that. finally, Cavalier Marr is accused
:18:08. > :18:11.of ignoring Jesus in his history of the world. I think sensible
:18:11. > :18:17.Christians who watch the programme will be very happy with it,
:18:17. > :18:23.actually. Will I be? I am president of the British humanist
:18:23. > :18:27.Association?! Well, in the end, religion is an absolutely crucial
:18:28. > :18:35.part of world history. Would not deny that for a moment. Thank you
:18:35. > :18:39.both very much indeed. It isn't grim up north. It has great
:18:39. > :18:45.restaurants, shops and beautiful countryside. But when it comes to
:18:45. > :18:50.the weather, in particular, a certain Mancunian reputation for
:18:50. > :18:56.moisture in the air, well, let's find out whether it is going to
:18:56. > :19:01.rain today, with Peter Gibbs. Far be it from me to cast aspersions on
:19:01. > :19:05.Manchester's reputation, but you're going to get wet later on, Andrew.
:19:05. > :19:14.We have got some rain edging southwards, but it is a very slow
:19:14. > :19:17.process. Some places will get some dry and sunny weather as well. The
:19:17. > :19:21.rain will be on the heavy side across north-west England,
:19:21. > :19:25.certainly in the afternoon, with river levels potentially starting
:19:25. > :19:33.to rise again. In the north of Scotland, some showers coming in,
:19:34. > :19:38.but quite a bit of sunshine in the afternoon. This is the wet area,
:19:38. > :19:47.across the north-west of England. Not much rain getting across the
:19:47. > :19:51.Pennines, mind you. But it is looking wet across Wales. It is
:19:51. > :19:55.really through this evening and denied that eventually, the rain
:19:55. > :20:04.pushes on, to become quite a wet night across southern parts of
:20:04. > :20:10.England. Still brisk winds, although not as cold. On the cool
:20:10. > :20:11.side, with fairly brisk winds, which really sets the theme for the
:20:11. > :20:17.which really sets the theme for the rest of the bleak. Autumn is
:20:17. > :20:20.definitely here to stay. Now, if politicians think they have
:20:20. > :20:24.a tough time of it these days, perhaps they should count
:20:24. > :20:28.themselves lucky they were not around 30 years ago. In the late
:20:28. > :20:32.1970s, the UK faced an economic crisis, and the Labour government,
:20:32. > :20:36.under pressure from the unions and the markets, was struggling to
:20:36. > :20:41.survive. There were fist-fights in the bars of the House of Commons,
:20:42. > :20:47.sick MPs were carried in to vote. Those times have been turned into a
:20:47. > :20:51.new play at the National Theatre in London. I caught up with its star
:20:51. > :20:57.to find out more about a time when Labour was clinging on by its
:20:57. > :21:00.fingernails. It was an incredibly interesting period. A lot of people
:21:00. > :21:08.think it is possibly the most dramatic period of post-war
:21:08. > :21:13.political British history, from 1974 to 1979, which is what the
:21:13. > :21:16.play concentrates on. Almost every political play concentrates on
:21:16. > :21:21.well-known leaders, but this is completely different, concentrating
:21:21. > :21:24.on the whips. Absolutely, the well- known leaders are just the
:21:24. > :21:30.supporting roles. They have got their sinister black books of
:21:30. > :21:34.things that people have done wrong, but they also cajole and support
:21:34. > :21:38.people. This is a time when Labour are bringing people who are either
:21:38. > :21:44.very ill or dying into the House of Commons so they can vote so Labour
:21:44. > :21:48.can stay in power. Absolutely, because there is this gentleman's
:21:48. > :21:57.agreement which I did not realise it was exactly that, a gentleman's
:21:57. > :22:01.agreement. Basically, particularly Labour, and my character, had to
:22:01. > :22:08.bring a very well-known character down from the North, who was dying
:22:08. > :22:14.of emphysema. They tracked him down for these various votes. And then
:22:14. > :22:19.we see towards the end of the play, it effectively changed the course
:22:19. > :22:21.of political history in this country. There is an extraordinary
:22:22. > :22:30.moment between you and your opposite number, Bernard Weatherall,
:22:30. > :22:34.who went on to become Speaker, and your character, Walter Harrison,
:22:34. > :22:38.who we should say is still alive. I don't know if he will be able to
:22:38. > :22:43.come down and watch it. It will be great, he might be a little bit too
:22:43. > :22:49.old. To James Callaghan government in the end fell because your
:22:49. > :22:52.character, Walter Harrison, would not accept a kind of sacrifice
:22:52. > :23:00.which jack Wetherall was going to make. We will not go into the
:23:00. > :23:04.details now. Absolutely. But what was fascinating in the play was the
:23:04. > :23:07.relationship between the two. Completely opposite sides of the
:23:07. > :23:15.spectrum - a working man, electrician by trade, in the RAF
:23:15. > :23:24.during the war, and jack was from a Savile Row family. These guys were
:23:24. > :23:29.really tough men. Of course, there is a certain amount of male bonding
:23:29. > :23:35.going on. Yes, I am playing the northern Yorkshire brute as opposed
:23:35. > :23:41.to a northern Lancashire brood. I must be the only typecast
:23:41. > :23:45.southerner who gets cast as a northerner in the business. There
:23:45. > :23:51.are a lot of historic figures in this play, a lot of them still
:23:51. > :23:55.alive. Neil Kinnock was in the audience when I saw it. Yes! He had
:23:55. > :23:59.an interesting relationship with Walter Harrison, I think. We had Dr
:23:59. > :24:06.David Owen in the other night, and we had the real and Taylor.
:24:06. > :24:10.Taylor, we should explain, then a young female whip, in this very
:24:10. > :24:13.macho Whips' Office. Underneath the warfare which was going on, it
:24:14. > :24:19.seems to me that this play was quite a profound attack on British
:24:19. > :24:25.parliamentary traditions - two sides against each other, kind of
:24:25. > :24:28.thing, and there is a sort of dream of a better way of doing politics
:24:28. > :24:33.which surfaces occasionally - why can't we be more consensual, why
:24:33. > :24:40.does it have to be like this? you're right. Also, what's
:24:41. > :24:43.interesting, we are one of the few democracies which has our
:24:43. > :24:49.Parliament laid out in a rectangular shape, as opposed to
:24:49. > :24:52.being round. I think there is only one or two in the world. Coming
:24:52. > :24:56.back to what we were talking about earlier, this is about people who
:24:56. > :24:59.are often seen as the villains, the ones who make the compromises and
:24:59. > :25:04.the deals, the ones to break the fingers and push people through the
:25:04. > :25:08.voting lobbies, but there seems to be an underlying theme that grown-
:25:08. > :25:16.up politics is about compromise and deal-making, not about the airy
:25:16. > :25:20.words of the leaders on television. I think you're right. Whether it is
:25:20. > :25:24.possible to actually compromise and make those deals, as we are seeing
:25:24. > :25:31.with the current coalition, is open to scrutiny, whether it is possible
:25:31. > :25:37.- it should be - within a democracy, but whether egos and whatever allow
:25:37. > :25:42.for that. It does feel not only very 1970s, in the look of it, but
:25:42. > :25:47.it is the real House of Commons, you really feel that. Did you have
:25:47. > :25:57.to do much rehearsing, did you go over and watch them at work? Yes, I
:25:57. > :26:04.
:26:04. > :26:09.was very fortunate at a do a while ago to meet two MPs who were very
:26:09. > :26:13.helpful to meet, and took me to meet the deputy chief whip. I also
:26:13. > :26:17.met the Prime Minister, David Cameron, after prime ministers
:26:18. > :26:24.Question Time. It was great, it was fascinating. It is an extraordinary
:26:24. > :26:29.building, because it is very public school. The geography matters a lot,
:26:29. > :26:34.because you have got the Whips' Offices, the absolute kernel of
:26:34. > :26:38.power, in this play. Yes, and they are just off the main chamber.
:26:38. > :26:43.There are some extraordinary moments where, for instance, the
:26:43. > :26:48.young female whip is told to go through all of the toilets, peering
:26:48. > :26:53.under the doors... To flush them, yes. To find out who is behind the
:26:53. > :27:02.door. Yes, something else which actually happened. These were more
:27:02. > :27:05.dramatic days. It was such a hugely dramatic period, and a lot of
:27:05. > :27:11.people say that Jim Callaghan became complacent by not calling
:27:11. > :27:17.the general election, and that was his downfall, in many respects. He
:27:17. > :27:20.hung on a bit too long, and did not call the election. Meanwhile, your
:27:20. > :27:25.character is trying to hang on for the next few hours, for the next
:27:25. > :27:31.day, and becoming utterly exhausted. And of course, a lot of politicians
:27:31. > :27:35.died at this time because they were shattered. Yes, a huge amount -
:27:35. > :27:40.stress and nerves, I think the Labour Party lost 17 MPs in that
:27:40. > :27:45.period. Well, it is a play that Ed Miliband and many other people, I'm
:27:45. > :27:48.sure, need to go and see. They should and they shouldn't - they
:27:48. > :27:54.might get too stressed. There are not many plebs in this one, that's
:27:54. > :28:04.all I can say. Europe lead in this, come on! We were trying to work out
:28:04. > :28:09.
:28:09. > :28:13.how to get that word in! -- You're a pleb in this! And with me now is
:28:13. > :28:16.Ed Miliband, not looking too stressed. But at that time, one of
:28:16. > :28:21.the big issues was the influence of the unions on the Labour government.
:28:21. > :28:24.And on cue, we have Len McCluskey this morning warning you that
:28:24. > :28:29.unless you change your policy on pay restraint, you're going to be
:28:29. > :28:32.consigned to the dustbin of history - do you have a message for him?
:28:32. > :28:36.The first thing I would say is that there is a very interesting
:28:36. > :28:41.contrast between now and the 1970s. Think about what happened to Labour
:28:41. > :28:44.after it lost that election. It became a disunited party, and it
:28:44. > :28:48.lost touch with the electorate. We have not made the mistake -- that
:28:48. > :28:53.mistake this time, and we are not going to. On what Len McCluskey
:28:53. > :28:58.said, my view is very clear - we have got the right policy, we want
:28:58. > :29:01.to put jobs in the public sector ahead of pay rises. It is a
:29:01. > :29:06.difficult decision, but it is the way to keep jobs in the public
:29:06. > :29:09.sector. But there is a bigger message also, I think, about the
:29:09. > :29:13.Labour Party that I lead. I am not for pushing people out of the
:29:13. > :29:17.Labour Party, I want more people in the Labour Party. There is no
:29:17. > :29:21.future for this party as a party of one section of society. We must be
:29:21. > :29:26.the party of the private sector, just as much as of the public
:29:26. > :29:30.sector. I think I am pretty clear on that. I would like to ask you to
:29:30. > :29:34.be clearer on it still. A lot of people say 70% of your funding is
:29:34. > :29:39.from the unions. That's not true. What is the current percentage?
:29:39. > :29:45.the moment it is about 40% from trade union members, that nurses
:29:45. > :29:52.and engineers and shop workers. About 40% from members of our party,
:29:52. > :29:55.and about 20% from other sources. I would much prefer that than a party,
:29:55. > :29:58.like the Conservative Party, which takes the majority of its funding
:29:58. > :30:02.from the City of London, and look what they're doing on the banks and
:30:02. > :30:07.other things. But nonetheless, these are important sources of
:30:07. > :30:12.funding, and you know that the suspicion is that people like Len
:30:12. > :30:22.McCluskey feel that they are pulling your strings. They can come
:30:22. > :30:25.
:30:25. > :30:30.in at the beginning of your party You can't say he is pulling our
:30:30. > :30:33.strings. What is your filling about somebody like that used in the
:30:33. > :30:37.first day of the Labour Party conference to tell you about what
:30:37. > :30:42.you must do? He is wrong. He is entitled to his view, but he is
:30:42. > :30:45.wrong. Let me correct you on one thing will stop it goes to the link
:30:45. > :30:48.between the trade union members and the Labour Party. There will be
:30:49. > :30:55.some who say, why doesn't Ed Miliband make a splash by breaking
:30:55. > :30:58.the link with trade union members? I will not do that because, think
:30:58. > :31:04.about what people think about politics, detached from the lives
:31:04. > :31:09.of most people. What does that give us? At its best, the link with
:31:09. > :31:13.trade union members gives us a link with people up and down the country
:31:13. > :31:18.who go to work every day, get up early, put in all the hours God
:31:18. > :31:23.sends. I will not break that link, but I will make at the right
:31:23. > :31:30.decisions in the interest of the country. You were elected as Labour
:31:30. > :31:36.leader, thanks to the votes of the trade unions. A lot of people said
:31:36. > :31:40.it this is a system that has to be reformed. Is your position that it
:31:40. > :31:47.is fine as it is, and we will carry on as things are?, because we
:31:47. > :31:51.agreed a set of changes at the last conference. The first time,
:31:51. > :31:55.something that Gordon Brown, John Smith never did, we have registered
:31:55. > :31:58.supporters, people who are members of the Labour Party, people who are
:31:59. > :32:03.not necessarily trade union members, are coming in and it will have a
:32:03. > :32:07.vote in leadership elections. We have almost 10,000 of those signed
:32:07. > :32:11.up. That shows the kind of Labour Party and determined to lead, a
:32:11. > :32:15.party that reaches out to people and is a party of the whole country.
:32:15. > :32:21.The biggest question when it comes to policy at the moment is what you
:32:21. > :32:27.would do about the deficit. Would a Labour government at spend more
:32:27. > :32:32.than the current coalition, or not? Here is what we would do now.
:32:32. > :32:36.talking about the next election. will set out our plans in the next
:32:36. > :32:40.election for what we will do in the next Parliament. We don't know what
:32:40. > :32:44.the Government will be doing in the next three months, because
:32:44. > :32:48.borrowing is going up under this Government. But here is what I
:32:49. > :32:53.would do if right now. It goes back to the position we are in. We are
:32:53. > :32:58.in a double dip recession, the longest since the war. We are not
:32:58. > :33:02.in that recession because David Cameron wants us to be in it. It is
:33:02. > :33:07.because he had a political strategy to say the real problem is that we
:33:07. > :33:11.are spending too much as a country. If we cut as far as fast as we can,
:33:11. > :33:18.everything will be all right. Aren't we spending too much? Were
:33:18. > :33:24.are certainly spending too much on unemployment. Borrowing is rising.
:33:24. > :33:29.Why? It is not to invest in schools, hospitals and transport. Borrowing
:33:29. > :33:34.is rising to keep people idle. It is amazing. This recession has more
:33:34. > :33:38.people out of work for longer than at any time for 17 years. And then
:33:38. > :33:43.number-one priority is boring going up. We need a different approach.
:33:43. > :33:48.Yes, there would be cuts if we were in government. But if we made the
:33:48. > :33:51.pace of those cuts a slower, if we take less money out of the economy
:33:51. > :33:54.now, it would be better for the economy, better for growth, better
:33:54. > :34:00.for people up and down the country and better forgetting the deficit
:34:00. > :34:05.down sustainably. Two and a half years ago, the jury was out. I
:34:05. > :34:09.think the jury can now return its verdict, because it hasn't worked,
:34:09. > :34:14.what the Government has done. deficit is coming down. You know,
:34:14. > :34:21.it is going up. In the first five months of this year, borrowing is
:34:21. > :34:26.20% higher than it was last year. Think about that. After all of what
:34:26. > :34:32.we have heard, people will be shocked about that. They will think,
:34:32. > :34:41.how can it be? At your answer is to spend more still? Our answer is
:34:41. > :34:45.this. Our answer is not borrowing to keep people idle. Let's get
:34:45. > :34:49.people back to work. One thing they could do would be to tax the
:34:49. > :34:53.bonuses of the bankers and put young people back in work. It is a
:34:53. > :34:58.simple change they could make. much money would you raise from
:34:58. > :35:03.taxing the bonuses of bankers? About �2 billion. From bonuses
:35:03. > :35:06.alone? And you would use that to put people back to work? We would
:35:06. > :35:11.use some of it on housing and someone putting young people back
:35:11. > :35:14.to work. Most people would think that was a good use of public money.
:35:14. > :35:21.What about the position of the better off? Let's not call them the
:35:21. > :35:26.rich, but the better off, generally. How attractive are you to a mansion
:35:27. > :35:36.tax, a tax on some form of a gyrated wealth? It is an idea worth
:35:36. > :35:40.considering. If the government wants to put forward at a mansion
:35:40. > :35:45.tax, we would work with them on it. If I was in government tomorrow,
:35:45. > :35:48.one change I would make in relation to the better off, the first change
:35:48. > :35:56.in a Labour Budget would be that we would not cut at the top rate of
:35:56. > :36:02.income tax from 50p to 45p. People have not quite understood this.
:36:02. > :36:08.it would go back up to 50 pence? there was an election tomorrow,
:36:08. > :36:13.that is what we would do. Let me tell you why. This Government is
:36:13. > :36:17.cutting taxes for millionaires by �40,000 a year. Next April, David
:36:17. > :36:22.Cameron will be writing a cheque to every millionaire in Britain for
:36:22. > :36:30.�40,000. It is not quite like that. I don't think he sits down and
:36:30. > :36:34.write cheques to millionaires. At the same time, you have people
:36:34. > :36:38.in Manchester going to food banks. People are going to petrol stations
:36:38. > :36:41.and can't afford to fill up their tank. That is wrong. There is a
:36:41. > :36:45.massive difference in priorities between a Prime Minister that I
:36:45. > :36:48.aspire to be who will stand up for the people in this country who need
:36:48. > :36:53.the help of government, who can't get by on their own, and a
:36:53. > :36:57.government that says, let's cut taxes for the rich. Your deputy,
:36:57. > :37:05.Harriet Harman, says there are no circumstances in which you would
:37:05. > :37:09.follow the covenant -- current government spending plans. We are
:37:09. > :37:14.not following their spending plans now. But she says you wouldn't
:37:14. > :37:19.because it is a failed policy, and therefore, we would not be
:37:19. > :37:25.following that. Whereas Ed Balls is saying it is going to be a tough
:37:25. > :37:28.spending plan. My question is, would you follow the spending plans,
:37:28. > :37:32.the overall limits of the coalition government in the first couple of
:37:32. > :37:37.years of government, or not? This is why people are fed up with
:37:37. > :37:41.politics. You are asking me a political game question. I think it
:37:41. > :37:44.is a straightforward question. People don't understand whether you
:37:44. > :37:48.will be an old-fashioned tax-and- spend party, or not. We don't know
:37:48. > :37:53.what they're spending plans will be. How can I sign up to their spending
:37:53. > :38:01.plans without knowing what they will be? Let's try it in another
:38:01. > :38:06.form. Nick Clegg says that whoever comes into power in 2015 will have
:38:07. > :38:11.to carry on austerity, carry on squeezing spending. There will be
:38:11. > :38:16.difficult positions we will have to take as a government, yes. So you
:38:16. > :38:20.will come in as a Labour government without extra money to spend.
:38:20. > :38:25.is what is important. What I am announcing this morning on banking
:38:25. > :38:30.goes to what I have been talking about for the last few years. We do
:38:30. > :38:33.not have lots of money to spend. I am clear about that. There will be
:38:33. > :38:37.tough settlements right across public services. But it does not
:38:37. > :38:41.mean there will not be a difference. There will be a massive difference.
:38:41. > :38:44.You will have a prime minister who will stand up to the vested
:38:44. > :38:48.interests in our society and say, we are going to change the way our
:38:48. > :38:54.economy works. We will do what we have not done for decades and have
:38:54. > :38:58.the big reforms that will make a difference. There is a change in
:38:58. > :39:02.approach, because there will not be the money to spend, you are right.
:39:02. > :39:07.I have been saying that big -- since I became leader. On the other
:39:07. > :39:10.hand, there are areas where you do want to spend money. You want to
:39:10. > :39:17.spend money on long-term care to improve that. You have supported
:39:17. > :39:24.the idea of the living wage, which is higher than the minimum wage.
:39:24. > :39:29.Nobody likes the would be redistribution -- the word pre-
:39:29. > :39:34.distribution. I love it. Let me explain what that means. It is
:39:34. > :39:42.about how you make the economy work for all working people without
:39:42. > :39:46.necessarily spending public money. This week... Let me just explained.
:39:46. > :39:49.What you have seen from the Labour Party this week, talking about how
:39:49. > :39:54.we can change the way energy companies were, how we can change
:39:54. > :39:58.pension systems so people get a fairer deal, how we can change the
:39:58. > :40:02.bank's, that is all about how in tough fiscal times, when there
:40:02. > :40:08.isn't money around, Labour can make a difference. To go to your
:40:08. > :40:15.question directly, we are not going to spend money we don't have. Of
:40:15. > :40:19.course we are not. Ted will be a lion in saying you cannot make
:40:20. > :40:23.commitments -- Ed Balls and I are clear that you cannot make
:40:23. > :40:31.commitments unless you have a chair idea where the money is coming from.
:40:31. > :40:36.That is our watchword. When it comes to the actual issue of so-
:40:36. > :40:41.called redistribution, getting people to take -- getting companies
:40:41. > :40:49.to pay people more, so that presumably means public sector
:40:49. > :40:54.workers as well? If it doesn't, it means nothing. It means that you
:40:54. > :41:03.change the way our economy works without necessarily having to spend
:41:03. > :41:09.public money. But this is about persuading companies to pay their
:41:09. > :41:14.workers more, yes? It is actually about something else. You can have
:41:14. > :41:17.your own definition if you like. It is about how you change your
:41:17. > :41:22.economy so that it works for most people, but not necessarily by
:41:23. > :41:25.spending public money. I don't understand that. If you have banks
:41:25. > :41:29.that work for small businesses and get them the loans, that is better
:41:29. > :41:32.for the economy and better for them. If you have a skill system that
:41:32. > :41:37.trains people up properly so that they are more productive and can be
:41:37. > :41:41.paid more, that is better for them. So it is nothing to do with pay?
:41:41. > :41:50.course it is about higher pay overtime. In colluding in the
:41:50. > :41:54.public sector? In it could be in the public sector. What people are
:41:54. > :41:58.waiting for is a clearer sense of where you are prepared to squeeze
:41:58. > :42:08.spending so that you can spend on the things you think are more
:42:08. > :42:09.
:42:09. > :42:12.important. We are going to lay that out at the time of the election.
:42:12. > :42:16.just want some sense that you have the steel to take tough decisions
:42:16. > :42:23.about public spending. Let's go back to public sector pay. It was
:42:23. > :42:28.not popular that we said that if we were in power in this Parliament,
:42:28. > :42:33.we would put jobs in the public sector ahead of pay rises. We said
:42:33. > :42:38.we would help the lower paid more than the higher paid up. But you
:42:38. > :42:45.can't say we are not willing to take tough decisions on that or
:42:45. > :42:49.when it comes to banking. Let's talk about banking. You say that if
:42:49. > :42:53.the banks don't separate themselves into ordinary retail banks and what
:42:53. > :42:59.have been called can sue -- casino banks or investment banks, you will
:42:59. > :43:02.bring a law in which slices them down the middle? Yes. Let me
:43:02. > :43:05.explain why. I want a country where a small business or individual
:43:05. > :43:09.going into their high street bank knows that that bank is working for
:43:09. > :43:15.them and not gambling with their money on the international markets.
:43:15. > :43:18.That doesn't happen at the moment. Over the last year, we have seen a
:43:18. > :43:23.watering down of some of the reforms the government was talking
:43:23. > :43:27.about to try and make that happen. I have a clear message for the
:43:27. > :43:30.banks. Either they sort it out themselves so that once and for all,
:43:30. > :43:35.the high street bank is not an arm of the casino operation, or the
:43:35. > :43:38.next Labour government will, by law, split those banks up so that once
:43:38. > :43:43.again, we returned the best traditions of British banking, with
:43:43. > :43:47.banks that serve customers, rather than customers and the country
:43:47. > :43:51.feeling that they are serving the banks. Barack Obama has pulled back
:43:51. > :43:55.from doing something that radical. Are you concerned that the result
:43:55. > :44:00.of that might be large numbers of banks simply leaving the UK and
:44:00. > :44:02.relocating abroad? Don't believe that will happen. I think the
:44:03. > :44:07.British people want a prime minister who will do the right
:44:07. > :44:12.thing for the country. So it is a price worth paying? At I believe
:44:12. > :44:16.those banks have a commitment to Britain. What do investors want?
:44:16. > :44:19.They want safety in their banking system. They want clarity about
:44:19. > :44:25.what is happening in the banks and the way banks will work in the
:44:25. > :44:28.future. We don't have that at the moment. A year ago, the government
:44:28. > :44:32.had the Independent Commission on Banking, the Vickers report. Since
:44:32. > :44:37.then, two things have happened. The Vickers report has been watered
:44:37. > :44:40.down so that the report has been made at less safe in terms of the
:44:40. > :44:44.impact it will have in the banks, and the culture change we need in
:44:44. > :44:48.the bank's is less likely to happen. And we have more need for it to
:44:48. > :44:53.happen, with things like the LIBOR scandal. We can't carry on as we
:44:53. > :44:57.are. If the big boys from the banks come in and say, you do this, and
:44:57. > :45:00.we are off, are you say, in that case, go? Do you want somebody who
:45:00. > :45:04.will stand up to the vested interests in our society, or don't
:45:04. > :45:07.you? If that is the test at the election between myself and David
:45:07. > :45:11.Cameron, people will understand that I can answer that question
:45:11. > :45:17.better than he can. Are you go to repeal the government's changes to
:45:17. > :45:23.the NHS? Yes. Yesterday, you said there was no point in another great
:45:23. > :45:33.change that could cost billions. Then Andy Burnham said it something
:45:33. > :45:36.
:45:36. > :45:42.We will repeal their NHS bill. Why? Because that puts the wrong
:45:42. > :45:45.principles at the centre of the NHS - it puts markets and money at the
:45:45. > :45:49.centre of the NHS, and that is the wrong set of principles. I want
:45:49. > :45:52.hospitals to be able to talk with each other, not to be sent to court
:45:52. > :45:58.for colluding with each other, which is one of the things which is
:45:58. > :46:03.being suggested. Are you suggesting that this could cost �3 billion,
:46:03. > :46:07.and it will be a major reconstruction? No. What I said
:46:07. > :46:12.yesterday is that am not going to do what David Cameron did, which is,
:46:12. > :46:16.he came along, he did not tell us in his manifesto, he then had a
:46:16. > :46:19.top-down reorganisation, which cost billions of pounds, at a time when
:46:19. > :46:22.nurses were being sacked. We are going to repeal the bill, we're
:46:22. > :46:26.going to make those changes, but obviously, we will look at the
:46:26. > :46:31.detail of some of the changes that have been made, because I do not
:46:31. > :46:37.want to simply shuffle the deck chairs again. When you get text
:46:37. > :46:40.messages from Vince Cable, what are you talking about? I have actually
:46:40. > :46:47.changed my mobile phone, I thought I needed to get away from him. We
:46:47. > :46:57.have spoken about a whole range of issues. Such as? For example, it is
:46:57. > :46:57.
:46:57. > :47:02.private, mostly, at the time of the Vickers report, he was kind enough
:47:02. > :47:06.to give me a briefing on what the report might say. That is a time
:47:06. > :47:10.when politicians can co-operate. But this has been way overdone.
:47:10. > :47:13.Let's be clear, I want a majority Labour government. That's what I am
:47:13. > :47:18.working for. If there are areas on which we can co-operate across the
:47:18. > :47:22.divide, that's fine. But let me just say this on the Lib Dems,
:47:22. > :47:30.because it is important - the problem about the Lib Dems,
:47:30. > :47:33.including fines, I'm afraid, is that they are an accomplice to this
:47:34. > :47:38.government. They are going in the wrong direction, I am very care
:47:38. > :47:42.about that. And yet it is up to the British electorate, what happens at
:47:42. > :47:46.the next election, as you know. You do not know how the cards will fall,
:47:46. > :47:50.and you could be in the position of no party having an overall majority
:47:50. > :47:54.again. Despite everything you have said, the Lib Dems are nonetheless
:47:54. > :47:59.a party you could do business with, are you not? I am not going to get
:48:00. > :48:06.into that. I have got an old fashioned view. Let's debate the
:48:06. > :48:11.issues which matter to people. I say this to you - politics is an
:48:12. > :48:16.insider's game about what's going to happen in 2.5 years' time, I do
:48:16. > :48:20.not think that interests people, and it does not interest me.
:48:20. > :48:25.opinion polls, your own personal ratings, they are still pretty
:48:25. > :48:29.terrible. Very, very large numbers of people still saying, I do not
:48:29. > :48:31.see this man has a future Prime Minister. I think it is quite a
:48:31. > :48:35.compliment that the Tories have been producing these things about
:48:35. > :48:40.me. I think I have got them worried, this far from a possible election.
:48:40. > :48:45.I think it tells you something. However you regard all this stuff,
:48:45. > :48:48.it is part of the job of a modern leader to project him or herself in
:48:48. > :48:53.a way which people find appealing, and you have struggled to do that
:48:53. > :49:02.so far - what more do you do? How can you approach this? It is not
:49:02. > :49:05.trouble. -- it is not trivial. That's your characterisation. I
:49:05. > :49:11.think ideas matter in politics, and I am not embarrassed about that.
:49:11. > :49:15.Let me be clear about this - I gave a speech last year, which was
:49:15. > :49:20.controversial, I talk about predator companies, predatory
:49:20. > :49:24.behaviour. I do not regret that speech, and over the last year,
:49:24. > :49:29.people have said, actually, maybe he was right about that. I am very
:49:29. > :49:33.clear about this, I am my own person, I am going to do it my own
:49:33. > :49:38.way. I think in the end, people respect somebody who has
:49:38. > :49:48.seriousness of purpose, a clarity of ideas. Let me make this contrast
:49:48. > :49:51.
:49:51. > :49:58.- four years ago, David Cameron was saying, I want to hug a huskie and
:49:58. > :50:03.I want to hug a hoodie. Now, he wants to lock up the hoodies, and
:50:03. > :50:07.he does not give a damn about the huskies. But with me, people will
:50:07. > :50:12.know where I stand. The real question about who will be the next
:50:12. > :50:16.Prime Minister at is, who can stand up to rebuild Britain and make our
:50:16. > :50:20.economy work for everybody, and on that test, I think we can win this
:50:20. > :50:26.election. We saw you and your family arriving in this city
:50:26. > :50:31.yesterday. It is quite nice to bring my family hear! But this is
:50:31. > :50:38.not going to be the start of the relaunch of Ed, lots of soft-focus
:50:38. > :50:40.pictures, lots of interviewers on other kinds of sofas? I think as
:50:40. > :50:44.Leader of the Opposition, and as somebody who wants to be Prime
:50:44. > :50:48.Minister, people want to know about you, who you are and what makes you
:50:48. > :50:57.tick. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep doing this mile
:50:57. > :51:02.away. Brother David back in before the election - yes or no? Look, I
:51:02. > :51:05.always say the same thing on this. He made a decision not to join the
:51:05. > :51:09.Shadow Cabinet. He wants to be in the front line but not on the front
:51:09. > :51:13.bench of politics. He wants to do his own thing. But you cannot do
:51:14. > :51:18.that for ever. He is doing a whole range of things on youth
:51:18. > :51:21.unemployment and on a whole range of issues. The door is open? He is
:51:21. > :51:31.a huge asset to the Labour Party, but I am not getting into all of
:51:31. > :51:32.
:51:33. > :51:40.that. On this programme, the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, said that he
:51:40. > :51:45.would be iron in controlling public spending if his party won the next
:51:45. > :51:49.election. He called the Liberal Democrats an accomplice to the
:51:49. > :51:53.current government, not a brake on it. He said he was working for a
:51:53. > :51:57.majority Labour government. A British woman is reported to be
:51:57. > :52:05.missing income put Spain after flash floods devastated houses and
:52:05. > :52:10.roads. It is understood she went missing in the province of Almeria.
:52:10. > :52:15.Thousands of homes have been evacuated there. That's all from me
:52:15. > :52:19.for now. The next news on BBC One is at midday. Here is a look at
:52:19. > :52:23.what is coming up after this programme. A new law will give
:52:23. > :52:28.teachers a anonymity when allegations are made against them,
:52:28. > :52:34.but where will that leave complaining pupils? Should the
:52:34. > :52:40.Church of England regroup around conservative Christian values? And
:52:40. > :52:43.does sorry mean anything any more? Join us at 10 o'clock. I have been
:52:44. > :52:48.joined again by Polly Toynbee and Matthew Parris. A blizzard of
:52:48. > :52:53.advice - every single time you come to a conference, everybody has got
:52:53. > :52:59.a view. Ignore it, I think, is the best advice. We were on this sofa
:52:59. > :53:03.two years ago. Probably not this sofa. I think it was this sofa.
:53:03. > :53:08.what have I learned most as Leader of the Opposition in that time? You
:53:08. > :53:16.should follow your own instincts. Do you get fed up with people
:53:16. > :53:18.saying that your pointy headed and intellectual? You do not go into
:53:18. > :53:22.this job without knowing that you're going to get all kinds of
:53:22. > :53:26.advice and all kinds of criticism, and I take it with a pinch of salt.
:53:26. > :53:32.I do not read the good stuff, and I do not read the bad stuff. Really,
:53:32. > :53:37.honestly? No, I do not. Spin doctors will tell you all sorts of
:53:37. > :53:44.things about how you should be, how you should seem. Who are these
:53:44. > :53:48.people? Do you think you should be in their hands? I am my own man.
:53:48. > :53:52.Margaret Thatcher listened to them and changed the way she looked and
:53:52. > :53:58.spoke and everything, and it worked. I am certainly not going to be
:53:58. > :54:03.doing that. Just remember where we have come from as a party. You will
:54:03. > :54:06.all remember the 1980s better than I can, and the Labour Party. This
:54:06. > :54:10.is a party which is more united than any other in British politics,
:54:10. > :54:14.it has not taken leave of its senses, or taken leave of the
:54:14. > :54:18.electorate. We are a party on the way back, although we have a long
:54:18. > :54:22.way to go. I feel quite confident about our position, knowing there
:54:22. > :54:32.is a huge mountain to climb, but we are scaling it. We're going to have
:54:32. > :54:36.no pictures of you with hostas? promise, no huskies. People like
:54:36. > :54:41.that. There are talking about the party, but most people are
:54:41. > :54:46.interested in you as a man. course, as I said to Andrew, that
:54:46. > :54:51.is something I will talk about. But hugging a husky was good at the
:54:51. > :54:55.time, but it turned out to be totally synthetic. That's why
:54:56. > :55:00.people are fed up with politics. People like the Wallace & Gromit
:55:00. > :55:05.cartoons - today sting, and secondly, do they make any
:55:05. > :55:08.difference at all? It makes no difference at all, honestly. People
:55:08. > :55:12.want to know, how is he going to make a difference to my life?
:55:12. > :55:15.That's what matters. Thank you all very much indeed. We were looking
:55:15. > :55:24.for some music for this week's show, and we did not have to look very
:55:24. > :55:28.far. Ren Harvieu is from just around the corner here, and she has
:55:28. > :55:38.made quite an impact since releasing her first single in the
:55:38. > :55:46.
:55:46. > :55:51.spring. # Don't know why I'm so afraid.
:55:51. > :55:55.Through The Night is influenced by 1960s pop music. It has been very
:55:55. > :56:00.well reviewed. I am joined in the studio now by Ren Harvieu. Yes!
:56:00. > :56:04.Full. Not very far to come. But you have had quite a year, haven't you?
:56:05. > :56:10.You had a terrible accident, you were hit by somebody jumping over a
:56:10. > :56:16.wall, I think. Yes. And you have had to perform on crutches for a
:56:16. > :56:19.while. Yes, I had crutches, but when I go on stage, I put them on
:56:19. > :56:26.the floor. I do not know whether the adrenalin takes over, but I
:56:26. > :56:31.forget about it. I do not get pain much any more. Tell us a bit about
:56:31. > :56:35.the song you will be singing now. It is one of the first songs I ever
:56:35. > :56:39.recorded, it is about three years old. It set the tone for the rest
:56:39. > :56:44.of the album. Looking forward to it very much indeed. Thank you very
:56:44. > :56:48.much to all my guests. Next week, we move on to Birmingham, we will
:56:48. > :56:53.be at the Conservative Party conference. I will be speaking to
:56:53. > :56:58.the Prime Minister, David Cameron. But we leave you now with Ren
:56:58. > :57:08.Harvieu, and the message perhaps for all political leaders, Do Right
:57:08. > :57:12.
:57:12. > :57:15.# Why don't you tell me what it is that you want
:57:15. > :57:18.# I'll tell you where it is that you should look
:57:18. > :57:23.# Don't think I don't know so much about you, boy
:57:23. > :57:29.# Just because I never came undone on your hook
:57:29. > :57:39.# I know you play love like it's some kind of game
:57:39. > :57:46.
:57:46. > :57:56.# And everyone you ever knew will get a page in your book
:57:56. > :57:56.
:57:56. > :58:06.# Yeah, but how many times you gonna play the scene out
:58:06. > :58:07.
:58:07. > :58:17.# If you'd only do right by me # Well, if you'd only do right by
:58:17. > :58:30.
:58:30. > :58:33.# Maybe I would do all right by you # I saw you smile when you thought
:58:33. > :58:35.you had crossed the line # Only to realise you'd never left
:58:35. > :58:37.the start # Well I know you won't admit it,
:58:37. > :58:41.baby # But I can see it's breaking your
:58:41. > :58:51.heart # If you'd only do right by me
:58:51. > :59:02.