:00:40. > :00:46.Good morning. Remembrance Sunday - one of the most solemn days of the
:00:46. > :00:48.year, when we recall those who died in huge global wars. A sense of
:00:48. > :00:51.perspective, always useful including on a morning when this
:00:51. > :00:58.organisation, the BBC, is engulfed in a crisis which is entirely self-
:00:58. > :01:04.inflicted. The papers scrambled to catch up, their latest editions
:01:04. > :01:06.carry the resignation last night of the BBC's boss George Entwistle. To
:01:06. > :01:09.review them, I'm joined by the broadcaster Jonathan Dimbleby, who
:01:09. > :01:12.speaks in The Observer of a rudderless BBC heading for the
:01:12. > :01:15.rocks, as well as by the Europe Editor of Time Magazine Catherine
:01:15. > :01:19.Mayer and Sir Max Hastings, the author and a former newspaper
:01:19. > :01:22.editor himself. So the BBC's Director General may have resigned
:01:22. > :01:25.after just 54 days in the job after a catastrophically wrong story by
:01:25. > :01:28.the Newsnight programme wrongly accusing a former politician of
:01:28. > :01:37.child sex abuse, just about as serious an allegation to make as it
:01:37. > :01:40.gets. In today's programme, extended for Remembrance Sunday.
:01:40. > :01:49.Lord Patten, chairman of the BBC Trust, said last night was one of
:01:49. > :01:52.the saddest evenings of his public life. I'll be talking to Lord
:01:52. > :01:55.Patten about the future of the Newsnight programme and why some
:01:55. > :01:58.papers are gunning for him too. The controversy engulfing the BBC will
:01:58. > :02:02.also be of concern to my next guest - the Home Secretary. I'll be
:02:02. > :02:05.asking Theresa May whether she is now convinced by the need for a
:02:05. > :02:07.single big inquiry into the slew of child abuse claims swilling round
:02:07. > :02:11.public life. We'll talk too about the coming election of Police
:02:11. > :02:13.Commissioners which hasn't so far exactly set the heather on fire.
:02:13. > :02:16.Elsewhere, following Barack Obama's election victory I'll be speaking
:02:16. > :02:21.to a top former White House lawyer about whether the President can
:02:21. > :02:26.truly deliver on his agenda. And as we pay tribute to the fallen, what
:02:26. > :02:29.will the impact be of cuts to military? I'll be asking the Chief
:02:29. > :02:34.of the Defence Staff, General Sir David Richards, about the British
:02:34. > :02:38.army and the possibility of our involvement in fighting in Syria.
:02:38. > :02:48.And as she marks two decades as one of British folk music's top singer
:02:48. > :02:59.
:02:59. > :03:03.songwriters, we've a track from Gentle stuff and we may need that
:03:03. > :03:05.by the end of the programme. First though, it's over to Sally
:03:05. > :03:08.Nugent for the morning's news headlines.
:03:08. > :03:11.Good morning. The BBC's Director General, George Entwistle, has
:03:11. > :03:14.resigned after just 54 days in the job. He had been under mounting
:03:14. > :03:16.pressure over a Newsnight report on child sex abuse, which wrongly
:03:16. > :03:19.implicated the former Conservative politician Lord McAlpine. The
:03:19. > :03:22.programme, and the BBC, had already been criticised for shelving an
:03:23. > :03:32.investigation into the Jimmy Savile abuse allegations. Our Home Editor
:03:32. > :03:37.Mark Easton has more. With the BBC facing what he called a crisis of
:03:37. > :03:42.trust, George Entwistle's task was to restore confidence with a series
:03:42. > :03:45.of interviews but his hesitant performance has proved to be the
:03:45. > :03:50.final acts of the director general who last night announced his
:03:50. > :03:55.resignation just 54 days after taking the job. I have decided the
:03:55. > :04:01.honourable thing to do is to step down as the Post of director
:04:01. > :04:05.general. When appointed to the role, as 23 years' experience as producer
:04:05. > :04:09.and leader at the BBC, I was confident the trustees had chosen
:04:09. > :04:13.the best candidate for the post and the right person to tackle the
:04:13. > :04:18.challenges and opportunities ahead. However, the wholly exceptional
:04:18. > :04:24.events of the last few weeks have led me to conclude that the BBC
:04:24. > :04:28.should appoint a new leader. Paying tribute to him, the chairman of the
:04:28. > :04:33.BBC Trust Lord Patten said the corporation's editor in-Chief had
:04:33. > :04:41.behaved with honour and courage. This is one of the saddest evenings
:04:41. > :04:51.of my public life. At the heart of the BBC is its role as a trusted
:04:51. > :04:55.global news organisations, and as the editor in chief of that news
:04:55. > :05:03.organisation, George has very honourably offered us his
:05:03. > :05:07.resignation because of the unacceptable mistakes and the
:05:07. > :05:13.unacceptable shoddy journalism which has caused so much
:05:13. > :05:18.controversy. Since his appointment in September, George Entwistle has
:05:18. > :05:22.been overwhelmed by events, in the words of Lord Patten. The Jimmy
:05:22. > :05:28.Savile scandal, the decision of Newsnight not to broadcast an
:05:28. > :05:33.investigation into the affair, then the same programme which wrongly
:05:33. > :05:38.implicated a politician in child abuse scandal. The head of BBC
:05:38. > :05:44.audio and music, Tim Davie, a man without any journalistic experience
:05:44. > :05:47.will take over temporarily as acting director general. Lord
:05:47. > :05:54.Patten and George Entwistle may not have taken questions last night,
:05:54. > :05:58.but profound questions for the corporation remain. It is in effect
:05:58. > :06:01.now leaderless. Hospitals in England are being
:06:01. > :06:04.invited to bid for part of a 25 million-pound fund to improve
:06:04. > :06:07.maternity services. The extra money could be used for facilities such
:06:07. > :06:09.as new birthing pools or rooms where partners can stay overnight.
:06:09. > :06:14.The Royal College of Midwives has welcomed the extra investment but
:06:14. > :06:23.says training more midwives should be the priority.
:06:23. > :06:26.The consumer group Which? Has joined calls for a delay to
:06:26. > :06:29.January's planned increase in fuel duty. MPs will vote on Monday on
:06:29. > :06:32.whether to raise the tax by three pence per litre. But Which? Wants
:06:32. > :06:35.them to reconsider, after 85% of people questioned for one of their
:06:35. > :06:38.surveys said they were worried about rising prices.
:06:38. > :06:41.People across Britain will fall silent at 11 o'clock this morning
:06:41. > :06:44.to remember servicemen and women who have given their lives in war.
:06:44. > :06:47.Prince Charles marked Remembrance Sunday in New Zealand, where he's
:06:47. > :06:50.currently on an official visit with the Duchess of Cornwall. Later this
:06:50. > :06:54.morning the Queen and members of Parliament will attend a wreath-
:06:55. > :06:58.laying ceremony at the Cenotaph in London.
:06:58. > :07:05.That's all from me for now. I'll be back with the headlines just before
:07:05. > :07:11.ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew. As we heard in the news, the
:07:11. > :07:16.Cenotaph will shortly be the focus for the national act of remembrance,
:07:16. > :07:23.just as important as the dignitaries attending, even more so
:07:23. > :07:27.are the veterans attending. Sophie is with them. Over to you. I am
:07:27. > :07:32.here at the Horse Guards Parade, where the veterans are already
:07:32. > :07:36.starting to gather. In total more than 9500 veterans and civilians
:07:36. > :07:42.will be taking part in the March Past this morning to remember the
:07:42. > :07:46.fallen. They will be forming in columns on the Horse Guards Parade,
:07:46. > :07:50.then shortly after 10 o'clock moving across to Whitehall, where
:07:50. > :07:56.large numbers of the public have already gathered. There are many
:07:56. > :08:03.people who will be remembered today, among them 255 British servicemen
:08:03. > :08:07.and women killed in the Falklands war. I am joined by Major-General
:08:07. > :08:14.Jonathan Shaw who took part in the Falklands campaign. You were fresh
:08:14. > :08:21.a to Sandhurst and found yourself in one of the bloodiest campaigns.
:08:21. > :08:26.Yes, and it was a very short, sharp campaign, a classic old-style force
:08:26. > :08:32.on force war. The intensity is shown in the figures. The battalion
:08:32. > :08:38.lost 23 people last night and 47 injured. In my platoon we lost five
:08:38. > :08:46.dead and 80 injured in one night's activity. It has left a mental and
:08:46. > :08:50.physical effect on us for ever-more really. This is the first year you
:08:50. > :08:55.will be taking part in the March Past, what does it mean to you?
:08:55. > :09:03.it means a lot, it gives me the chance to remember the guy is in my
:09:03. > :09:08.platoon I lost. Then we have the regimental legend got Murdoch,
:09:08. > :09:13.those guys will love with us forever even though they died 30
:09:13. > :09:19.years ago. It is a chance to give thanks for everything that happened.
:09:19. > :09:24.It was a great night, a Great War, and a great regiment. You also went
:09:24. > :09:28.back to the Falklands for the first time this year, didn't you? Yes, I
:09:28. > :09:33.took my family back. I thought it would be a good way to round off my
:09:33. > :09:37.career and it was very poignant. It allowed me to see the place it
:09:37. > :09:43.began and put that arrest. What does it mean to people who are
:09:43. > :09:47.still serving now, and to families who have lost loved ones to see
:09:47. > :09:53.this kind of public recognition every year? I think it means a
:09:53. > :09:58.great deal. Having said that, you can never heal the scars. I
:09:58. > :10:03.remember them handing out the Queen Elizabeth medals recently at a
:10:03. > :10:07.ceremony and it is quite evident that even 30 years on, the scars
:10:08. > :10:11.are still there for them. It is important every year we should stop
:10:12. > :10:18.and remember them. We should live our lives, but it is important to
:10:18. > :10:24.look back and remember those who suffered. Many thanks. Now to the
:10:24. > :10:28.front pages and there is just one story dominating the front pages.
:10:28. > :10:33.Many of you may have the earlier editions because the story broke
:10:33. > :10:39.very late, the resignation of George Entwistle. The Observer's
:10:39. > :10:44.first edition, which has Jonathan's fears about the BBC on it, and then
:10:44. > :10:48.that becomes George Entwistle quits. The same story in the Sunday
:10:48. > :10:54.Telegraph - there is the first edition. This story is about
:10:54. > :11:00.somebody who had a gun in his possession and has been jailed, but
:11:00. > :11:05.that then becomes a very straightforward story about the BBC
:11:05. > :11:13.boss quitting. Here is the first edition of the Sun, many of you
:11:13. > :11:23.will have this one about Jimmy Savile. Then that becomes this
:11:23. > :11:25.
:11:25. > :11:33.extremely brutal her blind. -- headlined. You have been a
:11:33. > :11:36.newspaper editor, this is a very grim story. Down in flames after 55
:11:36. > :11:41.days, a cannibal feet for newspapers, and it must be said
:11:41. > :11:45.that although this is a very bad day for the BBC, it is still in
:11:45. > :11:49.many ways a wonderful institution and one hopes when it comes over
:11:49. > :11:54.the other side of this, it is not surprising the newspaper industry
:11:54. > :11:59.itself is deeply alarmed about what Leveson will say in his report in
:11:59. > :12:04.the next few weeks. This informs their attitude. The whole tone of
:12:04. > :12:09.the newspapers is very strongly here is the BBC in a terrible mess
:12:09. > :12:14.after editorial failures, and the newspaper industry is threatened
:12:14. > :12:19.with statutory regulation. Catherine Mayer, you have chosen
:12:19. > :12:23.yet more of the coverage. They raised an awful lot of it, a lot of
:12:23. > :12:29.it focusing on a particularly embarrassing interview that George
:12:29. > :12:34.Entwistle gave on the Today programme. You get the transcript
:12:34. > :12:38.of that programme in almost every serious newspaper. You do, but what
:12:38. > :12:44.I find useful is this piece about what happened with Newsnight
:12:44. > :12:48.because that is the centre of the crisis. Listening to his interview
:12:48. > :12:53.yesterday, I'd waited that it was a resignation letter because he was
:12:53. > :12:58.talking about a... He said when people bring things to me, then I
:12:58. > :13:06.engage. Coming from an organisation crisis, and you see this happened
:13:06. > :13:11.so quickly - in 55 days - you have to do more than engage when people
:13:11. > :13:15.draw your attention to things. Newsnight was at the centre of the
:13:15. > :13:22.original problems and then he did not take control, did not pay
:13:22. > :13:26.attention to what was going on. I am also interested in this small
:13:26. > :13:30.piece in the Sunday Times about the former director general Mark
:13:30. > :13:34.Thompson because this has international dimensions. We are
:13:34. > :13:39.talking about what is happening with the press here, and you have
:13:39. > :13:44.to remember the BBC is not only are fantastic institution, it is a
:13:44. > :13:48.worldwide role model for public broadcasting. He is taking his job
:13:48. > :13:53.as the chief executive in the New York Times tomorrow, Mark Thompson,
:13:53. > :13:57.so this is a question of whether the ripples go abroad. Jonathan,
:13:57. > :14:02.you expressed fears about what this could do to the BBC. Everyone
:14:02. > :14:08.working for the BBC will hope the crisis is ending now, but it will
:14:08. > :14:13.go on. It will be going on for a while, I said that before George
:14:13. > :14:19.resigned. A lot of people who know George will feel extraordinarily
:14:19. > :14:24.sorry for him. A thoroughly decent man and a very good BBC career. I
:14:24. > :14:34.am struck by the malice and the relish of some of the newspaper
:14:34. > :14:34.
:14:34. > :14:40.coverage. I think it is a very important thing to separate the
:14:40. > :14:44.Jimmy Savile case from this. George did not need to go because of the
:14:44. > :14:49.Jimmy Savile case under way. It may turn out the Newsnight turned out
:14:49. > :14:53.to be wrong but it was a decision made in good faith, and it may turn
:14:53. > :14:57.out it was a wise decision, we don't know. In this case George was
:14:57. > :15:01.at the receiving end of nothing when he should have been knowing
:15:01. > :15:06.everything, and that looks straight at the chain of command inside the
:15:06. > :15:10.BBC. As I understand it, the key players who had been involved in
:15:10. > :15:15.the Jimmy Savile inquiry were out of it. They were not allowed to
:15:15. > :15:18.know anything about this programme being made. One of the issues I
:15:18. > :15:25.think we have got to look at, before Lord Patten starts thinking
:15:25. > :15:29.about who has got to be the next director general, is the job
:15:29. > :15:34.chewable? When I was an editor I was responsible for about 3000
:15:34. > :15:38.journalists and I found there to be a full-time job. It is physically
:15:38. > :15:42.impossible for the Director General to supervise across the whole
:15:42. > :15:48.spectrum of the BBC. I also think this is about the identity crisis
:15:48. > :15:52.that the BBC has been in for many years now. It expanded in order to
:15:52. > :15:57.try and keep across the different developments going on around it and
:15:57. > :16:03.it is a bit confused about what it is there for. It is very noticeable
:16:03. > :16:08.that the last three crises have all been around news programming. In
:16:08. > :16:12.2003 you have Andrew Gilligan, 2007 you had something that should not
:16:12. > :16:15.have been controversial which was the documentary on the Queen, where
:16:15. > :16:25.it was just the presentation of the trailer for it that created the
:16:25. > :16:27.
:16:27. > :16:30.Across the whole field, everyone talks about it is a problem of
:16:30. > :16:37.public trust. Certainly the politicians are run bandwagons and
:16:37. > :16:41.they say that no one trusts the BBC. Lots of newspapers do not want
:16:41. > :16:47.people to trust the BBC. But the viewing public have a great deal of
:16:47. > :16:54.trust. Look at the news coverage of Syria, the coverage of America,
:16:54. > :17:03.China. Without flattering view too much, look at your series on the
:17:03. > :17:06.history of the world. The BBC does great things. How is someone
:17:06. > :17:11.supposed to be chief executive of an organisation of the size and
:17:11. > :17:16.scale of the BBC in at a rapidly changing context and the
:17:16. > :17:20.editorially responsible at the top of the pinnacle? Many of us who
:17:21. > :17:23.have been involved with the BBC for years failed there is something
:17:23. > :17:29.fundamentally wrong, at that the journalism is being desperately
:17:29. > :17:35.squeezed, whereas there is this massive deadweight of management,
:17:35. > :17:40.these faceless beings. Some of them get to the top of the corporation.
:17:40. > :17:46.Some of us feel that the wrong people get to the top. The last
:17:46. > :17:51.director general presided over cuts that had to take place. But the
:17:51. > :17:58.cuts did not take place in management, but on the front line,
:17:58. > :18:03.news and current affairs. It is the defining characteristic of the BBC.
:18:03. > :18:09.To be fair, a lot of salaries were cut at the top of management.
:18:09. > :18:15.but only because high up said, you have got to cut your salaries.
:18:15. > :18:19.have chosen a story in the Mail on Sunday. We have referred to the
:18:19. > :18:25.Leveson enquiry. Lots of the newspapers are waiting with bated
:18:25. > :18:30.breath to see whether he will suggest statutory regulation.
:18:31. > :18:35.there is a story here. It suggests that Lord Leveson will say that
:18:35. > :18:40.there should be statutory regulation. We know because
:18:40. > :18:44.politicians have made it clear that they are divided, members of the
:18:44. > :18:50.Cabinet are divided. You have the Home Secretary coming on in just a
:18:50. > :18:57.moment. We have the existing laws, if you're bugging someone's phone,
:18:57. > :19:01.it is illegal. There are laws of defamation and libel. They are
:19:01. > :19:08.being reformed. The question is can you reconcile the need to give
:19:08. > :19:11.people the right to their own privacy, whoever they are, with the
:19:11. > :19:18.right to have a free newspaper environment which is often
:19:18. > :19:24.offensive, often vulgar, sometimes nasty, but is the essence of what
:19:24. > :19:29.distinguishes a free society from a repressive one. Some of us are very
:19:29. > :19:37.worried that Leveson has lost the plot. We must keep moving on.
:19:37. > :19:44.American elections. This is about another large institution in crisis,
:19:44. > :19:49.the Grand Old Party. The Observer is asking what the Republicans are
:19:49. > :19:54.going to do, whether they're going to reinvent themselves, which is
:19:54. > :20:04.one option, to try and chased the kind of votes that they did not get
:20:04. > :20:05.
:20:05. > :20:10.this time, to be more inclusive. By 2050, white Americans will be in a
:20:10. > :20:14.minority. There is a column in the Observer arguing that the Tories
:20:14. > :20:20.have got to learn the lesson from the American election, they have
:20:20. > :20:26.got to go for the centre if they wanted victory. I think there is
:20:26. > :20:32.widespread agreement about that. The interesting point about what
:20:32. > :20:42.you were saying, Catherine, is when can the Americans -- when can the
:20:42. > :20:42.
:20:42. > :20:46.Republicans win if they cannot win now. They say they are outnumbered.
:20:46. > :20:56.Interesting and poignant stories around the remembrance steam. You
:20:56. > :20:58.
:20:58. > :21:03.have chosen one of them. When I watch it, I find it extraordinarily
:21:03. > :21:07.moving to watch. This story about the Prince of Wales down under,
:21:07. > :21:16.this is a reminder that it wasn't in Peel and Commonwealth War, not
:21:16. > :21:22.just the British. This week celebrates those who died and
:21:22. > :21:26.suffered at the Battle of El Alamein 50 years ago. Churchill
:21:26. > :21:32.famously said, it is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the
:21:32. > :21:38.end, but it is perhaps the end of the beginning. Some people believe
:21:38. > :21:43.that that battle led to people dying in vain. I argue in my book
:21:43. > :21:48.that what it actually, what that campaign in the desert dead, it was
:21:48. > :21:58.pivotal to the cause of the Second World War, because it led to the
:21:58. > :21:58.
:21:58. > :22:03.involvement of the United States, going into Italy from North Africa.
:22:03. > :22:08.Both the Americans and the British needed a lot of practice before
:22:08. > :22:12.they launched their campaign of taking Europe. You pointed that out
:22:12. > :22:17.in your book. There will be survivors there this morning,
:22:17. > :22:21.marching. I want to turn to a massive political story that we
:22:22. > :22:31.have perhaps under reported in this country, the change of leadership
:22:32. > :22:33.
:22:33. > :22:38.in China. This is buried in the papers. Over in China, at 10 year
:22:38. > :22:42.changes happening, a change in leadership. This is the second
:22:42. > :22:48.largest economy in the world and yet all the attention that we paid
:22:48. > :22:53.to the US election, hardly anyone knows what is going on in China,
:22:53. > :22:59.and that is because the Chinese are very good at managing the news. We
:22:59. > :23:05.have a team up of people covering this election and they were given
:23:05. > :23:09.all sorts of paraphernalia, but no information. It is very difficult
:23:09. > :23:15.for journalists. We can all write about Mitt Romney, but with the
:23:15. > :23:19.Chinese, it is a leap into the unknown. They are making small
:23:19. > :23:22.adjustments to that. They are holding press conferences for
:23:22. > :23:32.foreign journalists this week, something they have never done
:23:32. > :23:33.
:23:33. > :23:42.before. And now, Nadine Dorries. There is a picture in the Mail on
:23:42. > :23:49.Sunday of her having fallen out of the boat. For me, this is so
:23:49. > :23:52.pathetic. It is pathetic that a politician says that she's going to
:23:52. > :23:57.do "I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here!" when she has constituents.
:23:57. > :24:07.It does not help the world of politics. Let's take a look at the
:24:07. > :24:13.
:24:13. > :24:21.Good morning. I have got the full spectrum for you in the next few
:24:21. > :24:25.days, cold and Chris today, wet and windy tomorrow. Today it is
:24:25. > :24:29.Remembrance Sunday. We should see some beautiful sunshine after what
:24:29. > :24:35.has been a rather chilly start as we move through the remembrance
:24:35. > :24:41.events today. Lots of fine weather across the UK, early showers fading
:24:41. > :24:46.away across the West of Scotland. The there will be lots of sunshine
:24:46. > :24:53.to come. Sunshine for Northern Ireland as well, and also for
:24:53. > :24:58.northern England. Patches of mist will take until around midday to
:24:58. > :25:05.lift over Wales. In England, we're looking at almost wall-to-wall
:25:05. > :25:11.sunshine. Top temperatures of about 8 degrees. After dark, temperatures
:25:11. > :25:16.fall away quickly. In the West, cloud and rain will pile in and
:25:16. > :25:22.lift temperatures by the end of the night. The rain will set the tone
:25:22. > :25:27.for Monday. Heavy rain, possibly, to the north-west. Temperatures
:25:27. > :25:31.just about hitting double figures. just about hitting double figures.
:25:31. > :25:35.What the rest of the week has in store is on our website. Theresa
:25:35. > :25:40.May enthused the Tory conference with her tough words about
:25:40. > :25:45.immigration. She was widely applauded for her refusing an
:25:45. > :25:51.American demand that a British Internet hacker should be
:25:51. > :25:55.extradited. She has been toying with the idea of a single big
:25:55. > :26:01.inquiry into the child abuse stories, real and imaginary, which
:26:01. > :26:07.have caused mayhem. Home Secretary, welcomed. What is your reaction to
:26:07. > :26:12.last night's news about the BBC and how serious do you think the crisis
:26:12. > :26:17.is? I think it was the right decision that George Entwistle took
:26:17. > :26:22.last night. I think it is a serious issue, there is a question of trust
:26:23. > :26:28.and credibility. It is a renowned national institution but it has a
:26:28. > :26:35.worldwide brand as well. The core of the question about the Newsnight
:26:35. > :26:40.piece on the north of Wales is about the quality of journalism.
:26:40. > :26:44.the general child abuse issue there are so many inquiries going on
:26:44. > :26:50.inside and outside the BBC, all over the place, there has been an
:26:50. > :26:54.argument made that there should be a single national inquiry. Yes,
:26:54. > :26:59.that argument has been made and raised in the House of Commons and
:26:59. > :27:05.outside Parliament. I think the important thing is that we get to
:27:05. > :27:10.the facts. I think that the police investigation and the investigation
:27:10. > :27:15.into North Wales is particularly important. We need to ask if
:27:15. > :27:19.everything was done properly. In relation to North Wales, the
:27:19. > :27:24.director general of the National Crime Agency has been asked by the
:27:24. > :27:29.chief constable to come in with his assets. They will look at whether
:27:29. > :27:32.everything was followed that should have been. There have been
:27:32. > :27:37.allegations that the inquiry did not go as far as it should have
:27:37. > :27:43.done. You do not sound like year persuaded that there is the need
:27:43. > :27:48.for another large inquiry? Not at the moment. The important thing now
:27:48. > :27:53.is let's let the police and others get on with the job of establishing
:27:53. > :27:57.the facts. In the police investigations, based -- they will
:27:57. > :28:03.see if there are criminal charges that need to be followed. Everyone
:28:03. > :28:08.is waiting for the Leveson enquiry. You are quoted in the Mail on
:28:08. > :28:13.Sunday as being one of the ministers who does not want to see
:28:13. > :28:21.statutory regulation of the British press. Is that right? I think it is
:28:21. > :28:26.right that we retain a free press. I am one of the recipients of the
:28:26. > :28:32.Leveson report. Together with Maria Miller, we are the recipients. I do
:28:32. > :28:36.not think it is right to speak about it. The Prime Minister has
:28:36. > :28:42.said he would accept the proposals made by Lord Leveson unless they
:28:42. > :28:48.were bonkers. Does that remain the case? We will get a full report and
:28:48. > :28:52.we will look at it carefully. But it is not for me to prejudge that.
:28:52. > :28:56.The police commissioner elections, this has been touted as a way of
:28:56. > :29:02.getting direct democracy across the country into the running of the
:29:02. > :29:06.police, and yet, if it turns out that perhaps only 20 % of people
:29:06. > :29:10.bothered to vote, what kind of mandate will these commissioners
:29:10. > :29:16.have? They will have more of a democratic mandate and the police
:29:16. > :29:20.to authorities they are replacing. As I go around the country, I have
:29:20. > :29:24.been looking at campaigns and seen what happens on the streets, when
:29:24. > :29:30.you speak to people about police commissioners, they are interested
:29:30. > :29:33.and they think it is a good idea. Only 7% of people know that the
:29:33. > :29:43.police authorities are there that they can go to if they have an
:29:43. > :29:47.issue with the police. People are aware of the elections. People will
:29:47. > :29:51.know and they will have had an opportunity to vote. If that
:29:51. > :29:57.individual does not do their job, they can be arrested at the next
:29:57. > :30:03.election. Turnout matters, because these brand new commissioners will
:30:03. > :30:06.no doubt have tough conversations with the top local copper. If it
:30:06. > :30:12.turns out that relatively few people have voted for them they
:30:12. > :30:18.will have left this authority to make big changes. -- are they will
:30:18. > :30:22.have less authority. What I am seen from candidates is that they will
:30:22. > :30:26.genuinely be a voice for local people. They will get out and about
:30:26. > :30:31.and be able to speak to the Chief Constable about what really matters
:30:31. > :30:36.to people on the ground. What we saw under the last government was
:30:36. > :30:46.too much control from Whitehall, too much target-setting. Government
:30:46. > :30:52.
:30:52. > :30:55.You must be slightly disappointed. There was a great deal of optimism
:30:55. > :31:04.that people would come from more round to stand for the election.
:31:04. > :31:09.What you have got is an awful lot of political retreads. These are
:31:09. > :31:16.new elections, obviously, and it sometimes takes time for people to
:31:16. > :31:22.feel that they can stand in these elections. Out of 192 candidates,
:31:23. > :31:27.54 of them are independents. The Labour Party has a larger number of
:31:27. > :31:31.ex MPs standing. We must be very careful about that, but there will
:31:31. > :31:37.be conflict presumably with chief constables, that is part of the
:31:37. > :31:43.point? There does not have to be. The Chief Constable's retain their
:31:43. > :31:46.operational independence. They decide who they will investigate. I
:31:46. > :31:51.don't think there will be a conflict. Just look at the example
:31:51. > :31:57.we have got, because we have got a police and crime Commission are
:31:57. > :32:06.already in London. Effectively the mayor of London and his deputy have
:32:06. > :32:10.been in that position for some time. What we have seen from the mare is
:32:11. > :32:15.he absolutely laid out in strategic terms for certain areas he wanted
:32:15. > :32:18.tackles like London Transport late night being tackled, and that has
:32:18. > :32:24.happened so he has been able to do that and take the voice of the
:32:24. > :32:31.people to the police, but champion them as well. Let's turn to
:32:31. > :32:37.immigration. David Cameron famously said he wanted it down to 10
:32:37. > :32:41.thousands. The number of people who have absconded, we don't know where
:32:41. > :32:48.they were, it was something like the population of Iceland. There is
:32:48. > :32:56.a real problem of grip, isn't there? A to still our aim to get
:32:56. > :33:01.the number down to the tens of thousands. Last December we saw the
:33:01. > :33:05.first significant fall for many years, and if we look at the visas
:33:05. > :33:11.situation to June of this year, we see a significant cut in the number
:33:11. > :33:16.of visas, particularly in students, 90,000 down just by getting abuse
:33:16. > :33:19.out of the system. There is a huge amount to be done and more to be
:33:19. > :33:25.done on enforcement but we are stepping up our enforcement
:33:25. > :33:29.activity. We still have that intention. Immigration has been
:33:29. > :33:33.good but it is to be controlled. The archive is getting bigger of
:33:33. > :33:38.the cases that haven't been resolved however. The are some
:33:38. > :33:43.issues to do with the UK Border Agency, but we are stepping up
:33:43. > :33:46.activity and removing more people, getting more people on aeroplanes
:33:46. > :33:52.to countries where they should be rather than here, but this does
:33:52. > :33:56.take time. You can't wave a magic wand. Do you think there is a
:33:56. > :34:02.realistic practical chance of delaying the arrival of Romanian
:34:02. > :34:08.and Bulgarian free migration to this country? Yvette Cooper said
:34:08. > :34:14.Labour would support you on that, but the legal position with the EU
:34:14. > :34:18.is difficult to turn around. Oh a mocking of free movement generally
:34:18. > :34:24.across the EU. It has been extended gradually over the years and I am
:34:24. > :34:27.looking at this in three areas. Firstly there is a growing group of
:34:27. > :34:32.countries in the European Union concerned about the abuse of free
:34:32. > :34:37.movement, that looking at issues like sham marriage, and we are
:34:37. > :34:43.working together to reduce abuse of that. We will be looking at the
:34:43. > :34:47.transitional controls of Bulgaria and I will be looking at the pull
:34:47. > :34:52.factors, what it is that attracts people to come over here. Looking
:34:52. > :34:57.at issues like benefits, access to the health service, things like
:34:57. > :35:02.that. Then we're doing a wider piece of work including free
:35:02. > :35:06.movement about the balance of powers between us and the EU.
:35:06. > :35:10.really quite soon that the Bulgarian and Romanian issue will
:35:11. > :35:15.be tested by people arriving, and the question is will you be able to
:35:15. > :35:19.stop them coming in? There are no further transitional controls
:35:19. > :35:24.Wickham put on, but that is where the importance of looking at some
:35:24. > :35:30.of the issues about what is attracting people to come here is
:35:30. > :35:40.so important. One of the trivial stories in today's newspaper is
:35:40. > :35:42.
:35:42. > :35:46.Nadine Dorries on I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here! And people are
:35:46. > :35:50.suggesting it is setting back politics - do you agree with that?
:35:50. > :35:54.I think she should be doing her job for her constituents and in the
:35:55. > :35:59.House of Commons. If she does that, can she come back into the
:35:59. > :36:05.Conservative Party, do you think? That will be for the whips to
:36:05. > :36:10.decide at the time but I think she should be here and doing her job.
:36:10. > :36:16.Let me turn back to the BBC story - there are people who think this is
:36:16. > :36:21.so serious that the licence fee will come under threat if this is
:36:21. > :36:24.not well handled. Just analyse the nature or the scale of what is
:36:24. > :36:30.happening here. Is this one of those embarrassing difficult
:36:30. > :36:36.awkward things that occupies the papers for a few days and goes away
:36:36. > :36:40.or is there something fundamental? It is between the two innocence, in
:36:40. > :36:45.that there is an issue of quality of journalism, which is what the
:36:45. > :36:50.BBC has been renowned for over the years. What matters now is how the
:36:50. > :36:54.BBC deals with it and what it puts in place to make sure it can
:36:54. > :36:58.restore public trust and make the sort of programmes - carry on
:36:58. > :37:03.making the sort of programmes that people respected for. So you would
:37:04. > :37:08.expect to see a lot of changes to come? In people and instructors?
:37:08. > :37:12.The BBC has got a job to do to restore that trust.
:37:12. > :37:18.A reminder that the police commissioner elections take place
:37:18. > :37:25.on Thursday. You can find full details of the candidates standing
:37:25. > :37:29.on the BBC news website. Just type for these elections into the search
:37:29. > :37:34.box. When George Entwistle announced his resignation last
:37:34. > :37:38.night outside this very building, he was standing beside the man who
:37:38. > :37:43.had so recently appointed him. As chairman of the BBC Trust, Lord
:37:43. > :37:47.Patten is now the last man standing right at the top of the corporation.
:37:47. > :37:54.As he acknowledged last night, there are plenty of questions for
:37:54. > :37:59.him as world. Despite his sadness, did he tell George Entwistle to go?
:38:00. > :38:06.And is the structure of the way the BBC is run not good enough? Lord
:38:07. > :38:11.Patten, welcome. Did he go or was he pushed? No, he went, extremely
:38:11. > :38:16.honourably. I didn't try to argue him out of it because he made his
:38:16. > :38:21.mind up and I think it was the right decision. We had several
:38:21. > :38:26.conversations yesterday. He is editor in chief of the great news
:38:26. > :38:30.organisation, and I think he felt he should take responsibility for
:38:31. > :38:35.the awful journalism which disfigured that Newsnight programme.
:38:35. > :38:39.One of the ironies is that he was a brilliantly successful editor of
:38:39. > :38:44.Newsnight himself for some time, which I guess is one of the reasons
:38:44. > :38:48.Jeremy Paxman said some properly gracious things about him, but now
:38:48. > :38:52.he had been destroyed by these programmes. And destroy
:38:52. > :38:58.particularly by his interview with John Humphrys on the Today
:38:58. > :39:01.programme. Everyone I have spoken to who heard it thought it was a
:39:01. > :39:09.catastrophic car-crash interview. You don't go for an interview with
:39:09. > :39:13.John Humphrys and expect it to be easy and that is why he has such a
:39:13. > :39:19.great journalist. Throughout this, the way the BBC has covered itself
:39:19. > :39:23.has held on to the way we are, of all four, a news organisation and
:39:23. > :39:29.our credibility depends on telling the truth about ourselves and
:39:29. > :39:33.others however horrible it may be. The specific problem for which he
:39:33. > :39:40.went was lack of curiosity, that he didn't know about this terrible
:39:40. > :39:44.mistake come to that was too late. That was part of it. One of the
:39:44. > :39:50.tragedies is that he wanted to do all the right things in terms of
:39:50. > :39:55.the management of the BBC, perhaps we can come to that in a moment.
:39:55. > :39:59.What undermined him were exactly those failings which he wanted to
:39:59. > :40:04.address. From the beginning, unfortunately, in dealing with the
:40:04. > :40:08.crisis, he was at least implicated in the first crisis because he had
:40:08. > :40:12.been director of vision when that original Newsnight programme had
:40:12. > :40:19.gone out so it made it very difficult for him to tackle the
:40:19. > :40:24.whole thing. He is a very good man. Cerebral, decent, honourable, brave,
:40:24. > :40:33.and I'm afraid this would have overwhelmed a lot of people with
:40:33. > :40:37.those sort of skills. I can remember vividly the Hutton Inquiry
:40:37. > :40:43.crisis, which is the only thing that has been remotely comparable,
:40:43. > :40:50.and at that point we lost the director general and the chairman.
:40:50. > :40:55.Do you feel your position is under question? It is bound to beyond
:40:55. > :41:00.question from Rupert Murdoch's newspapers. What happened with the
:41:00. > :41:04.Hutton Inquiry, which took out the chairman and a director general, is
:41:04. > :41:11.that the government reorganised the management, the governance of the
:41:11. > :41:15.BBC to use that awful word, so as to separate the BBC Trust from the
:41:15. > :41:18.executive so that there would no longer be a position in which the
:41:18. > :41:23.chairman had some executive responsibility for the editorial
:41:23. > :41:28.content of the BBC and that is the position I have been in. I don't
:41:28. > :41:33.want to hide behind what my job is supposed to be in saying that I
:41:33. > :41:40.think I now have to make sure that in the interests of the licence fee
:41:40. > :41:49.payer and the audience that the BBC has a grip, but we get ourselves
:41:49. > :41:58.back onto the road. We have these two big inquiries, Nick Pollard's
:41:58. > :42:04.inquiry, and we have a report about the last Newsnight programme and my
:42:04. > :42:10.job is to learn from those inquiries, and to restore trust in
:42:10. > :42:14.the BBC. So you will stay on. You accept that George Entwistle was
:42:14. > :42:19.perhaps too silent for too long but you don't feel you are in that
:42:19. > :42:24.position? No, but I do feel that, because of what has happened, I
:42:24. > :42:29.will probably have to be a bit more vociferous. I don't feel this is a
:42:29. > :42:36.job in which I should grandstand, nor do I believe I should try to
:42:36. > :42:39.take editorial decisions. That would get us into all sorts of
:42:39. > :42:44.difficulties of political interference. There is a general
:42:44. > :42:52.perception, in the words of one of Newsnight's presenters, that the
:42:52. > :43:00.programme is toast. I think that is a rather quick judgment to come to.
:43:00. > :43:04.Let me make this point obviously - at the heart of our journalism in
:43:04. > :43:09.the BBC is good investigative uncompromising investigative
:43:09. > :43:12.journalism, and Newsnight has been part of that tradition with
:43:12. > :43:16.Panorama and others. We want to hold on to that but we want to make
:43:16. > :43:22.sure it doesn't make the sort of mistakes which have been made by
:43:23. > :43:27.Newsnight, particularly the last one. I heard what Jonathan Dimbleby
:43:27. > :43:32.said earlier on that, which I thought was a pretty fair comment.
:43:32. > :43:38.What we want to make sure is that Newsnight and other programmes are
:43:38. > :43:45.properly managed. Clearly not. It is incomprehensible to many people,
:43:45. > :43:50.the photograph... Totally. Totally. It has obviously been compromised
:43:50. > :43:54.by the fact that several senior managerial figures were accused
:43:54. > :43:59.from responsibility because it was thought to torch on the fact that
:43:59. > :44:04.they were implicated in the Jimmy Savile story. Was anybody really in
:44:04. > :44:11.charge? That was a question I asked. When I heard the programme was
:44:11. > :44:15.being made, because the message on Twitter was brought to my attention
:44:15. > :44:20.on Friday and mentioned Conservative politicians - I
:44:20. > :44:24.couldn't phone them up and say what is this? That would have been
:44:24. > :44:29.grotesque interference. I did subsequent they ask whether the
:44:29. > :44:33.programme was being properly edited, properly managed, and I was assured
:44:33. > :44:38.it was. We know from what George was saying yesterday that
:44:38. > :44:43.apparently decisions about the programme went up through every
:44:43. > :44:48.damn layer of BBC management, bureaucracy, legal checks, and
:44:48. > :44:56.still emerged. And a lot of people believe that entire management
:44:56. > :45:02.structure will have to go. What is absolutely true is that when George
:45:02. > :45:12.said that we had to get away from the silos in the BBC, get away from
:45:12. > :45:18.the been fighting, the more self- critical, devolving decisions far
:45:18. > :45:27.more, he was spot on. The tragedy is that after he was set to do
:45:27. > :45:32.those things, he was affected by a crisis that caused the strings. If
:45:32. > :45:36.you are asking if it needs an overhaul, absolutely it does.
:45:36. > :45:41.invited to go to talk to the senior management group. I think there
:45:41. > :45:51.were more than 100 people there so senior they can spend 100 days
:45:51. > :45:52.
:45:52. > :45:58.There are more senior leaders in the BBC than the Chinese Communist
:45:59. > :46:03.Party. We do have to devolve decision-making as much as possible,
:46:03. > :46:10.but with that comes the way that people are prepared to take
:46:10. > :46:14.responsibility. Those who have responsible positions in journalism
:46:14. > :46:19.are very reluctant to accept that they are therefore part of
:46:19. > :46:24.management, but they are. Unacceptable journalism, shoddy
:46:25. > :46:30.journalism, was your phrase. Do you think people need to be brought in
:46:30. > :46:37.from outside the corporation to oversee the journalism? That may be
:46:37. > :46:42.possible. What we have to do is to get a grip immediately. I will be
:46:42. > :46:50.speaking to Tim Davie, who is acting director general, about here
:46:50. > :46:57.as he can best handle things. -- about how EC can best handle things.
:46:57. > :47:02.We will need to choose a director general of the BBC. We will need to
:47:02. > :47:08.make sure that whoever is director general of the BBC has the team
:47:08. > :47:11.around him which can make the Jupp possible. Max Hastings pointed out
:47:11. > :47:15.earlier that this is a spectacularly large job in terms of
:47:15. > :47:21.scale and sweet and you do need to have are really good team of people
:47:21. > :47:26.around you. When it comes to the overall structures, we are looking
:47:26. > :47:30.at something which will make the BBC look and feel very different in
:47:30. > :47:35.the future. At different organisation will have to emerge
:47:35. > :47:42.from this crisis? That is true, but it is not just because of this
:47:42. > :47:47.crisis, it is also because of what is happening digitally. We
:47:47. > :47:51.demonstrated during the Olympics that the BBC is a great engineering
:47:51. > :47:55.organisation as well as a creative organisation, but that has all
:47:55. > :48:00.sorts of implications for the way that people will be watching
:48:00. > :48:06.television programmes in the future. We have to adjust to a world in
:48:06. > :48:11.which fewer people are reading newspapers. You have to find a
:48:11. > :48:14.brand new director general. At the same time, there seems to be very
:48:14. > :48:20.little management in the new structure and the organisation is
:48:20. > :48:26.visibly turning on itself? How quickly can you get a brand new
:48:26. > :48:31.director general? There needs to be someone in charge quickly and we
:48:31. > :48:35.will be turning our attention to that today. But we will also be
:48:35. > :48:40.working with Tim Davie to make sure that he can have the right support
:48:40. > :48:47.in getting the BBC on track right away. Do you have to go through the
:48:47. > :48:53.same cumbersome process? No. can do it quickly. When it comes to
:48:53. > :48:57.the way that news is handled inside the BBC, it has been argued, not
:48:57. > :49:03.least during the newspaper review, that there needs to be a much
:49:03. > :49:08.stronger head of news who is not necessarily the director general.
:49:08. > :49:15.This job is so important, you need someone who's full attention is on
:49:15. > :49:18.the quality of the journalism? I think there is a case for that. I
:49:18. > :49:23.do not want to prejudge, but I think there is a strong argument
:49:23. > :49:29.for that. I do not think that you would ever want a situation where
:49:29. > :49:33.there was not one person if you was in charge, but I think you need to
:49:33. > :49:41.look at the relationship between the director general of the
:49:41. > :49:47.organisation, editorial and creative. Anybody but an Archangel
:49:47. > :49:52.need strong support in those areas. Absolutely. If this carried on
:49:52. > :49:57.going wrong from now on, then the very future of the BBC could be in
:49:57. > :50:04.contention? You have only got to watch television in America or
:50:04. > :50:09.France to know how good the BBC is and has been. It is massively
:50:09. > :50:14.respected around the world, and the basis for the licence fee, the
:50:14. > :50:19.bases for the BBC's position in this country, is the trust that
:50:19. > :50:25.people have in it. People believe strongly that they are getting it
:50:25. > :50:31.straight from the BBC, more so than any other news organisation. If the
:50:31. > :50:38.BBC loses that, it is over? Yes. There are some newspapers who would
:50:38. > :50:47.love that, Mr Murdoch's newspapers. But I think the great British
:50:47. > :50:52.public wants us to restore confidence in the BBC's, -- the
:50:52. > :50:59.BBC's quality. Are there things that when you look back, you think,
:50:59. > :51:04.I wish I had done that better? may have some views about whether
:51:04. > :51:09.or not the way the role of the trust has been carved out, maybe
:51:09. > :51:14.that constrains one too much in relation to programmes, but that is
:51:14. > :51:19.the situation as it is and I will not try to change that. There are
:51:19. > :51:24.more important things that matter. Given what I knew then, I would
:51:24. > :51:30.still have chosen with my colleagues on the trust George
:51:30. > :51:36.Entwistle, as he was our unanimous choice. We thought he was a
:51:36. > :51:42.terrific, creative leader for the BBC. I am sorry, it is one of the
:51:42. > :51:47.tragedies of life, I am sorry that he was overwhelmed by this crisis.
:51:47. > :51:53.Many people in the House of Commons are looking forward with some glee
:51:53. > :51:58.to a smaller, diminished BBC at the end of this. Yes, there are some
:51:58. > :52:05.people in that position. I think they are cagey about the way they
:52:05. > :52:08.speak about it. If the role of the BBC was to become an issue in a
:52:08. > :52:13.general election, you would find that most of the people speaking
:52:13. > :52:20.about it would be in favour of the BBC continuing to play an important
:52:20. > :52:26.part in our national life. Just put this horrendous crisis on one side
:52:26. > :52:31.for a moment. The BBC has been one of the most respected national
:52:31. > :52:37.institutions. It is one of the things that helps to define and
:52:37. > :52:41.reflect Britishness. We should not lose sight of that. One of the
:52:41. > :52:46.dangers of this is that having got one thing so appallingly badly
:52:46. > :52:51.wrong, the entire institution becomes completely risk-averse and
:52:51. > :53:00.stops trying to do other stories. Everything is referred up the way
:53:00. > :53:09.and nothing actually happens. months ago, when I became chairman
:53:09. > :53:15.of the BBC Trust, people were saying that the place was bound by
:53:15. > :53:22.too many regulations because of Ross brand. Now there will be some
:53:22. > :53:26.people who say, we should put that Back Again. We must not do that. We
:53:26. > :53:32.must have the confidence to investigate and explore. But we
:53:32. > :53:37.have to make sure that what we say is correct. Who is going to rally
:53:38. > :53:42.the troops? There are a lot of upset people because overwhelmingly
:53:42. > :53:47.the people who work for the BBC have not been in any way
:53:47. > :53:55.responsible for this ghastly mess. They now feel slightly tainted by
:53:55. > :53:59.what has happened. It is important to encourage them to go on making
:53:59. > :54:04.great radio and television programmes. That is something we
:54:04. > :54:09.will be speaking to Tim Davie about today. Despite what has happened,
:54:10. > :54:13.you think that Newsnight can survive? I think it would be very
:54:14. > :54:18.sad if we were to give up that evening slot which has done a lot
:54:18. > :54:24.of terrific investigative journalism over the years, not
:54:24. > :54:30.least when George was the editor. But we have got to consider how it
:54:30. > :54:34.is managed and whether people have got a grip on the content.
:54:34. > :54:39.quickly do you think you can put a brand new director general in
:54:39. > :54:46.place? I think it has got to be a few weeks rather than a lot of mums.
:54:46. > :54:50.Thank you very much for joining us. He had won pretty decisively anyway
:54:50. > :54:55.but last night's announcement of victory in Florida after they
:54:55. > :55:00.finally completed counting the votes would have been pretty sweet
:55:00. > :55:04.for Barack Obama. It gives him an even clearer mandate. Many liberals
:55:04. > :55:11.will be hoping that Mr Obama will be pursuing a more distinctive
:55:11. > :55:15.agenda. Greg Craig worked very closely with the President, backing
:55:15. > :55:20.his original election bid and working as his chief lawyer in the
:55:20. > :55:30.White House. I asked him if he thought the President had been
:55:30. > :55:30.
:55:30. > :55:37.changed by the election. It has to have changed him. It was an
:55:37. > :55:41.intensely fought out campaign. I think there was a surprising moment
:55:41. > :55:46.in the first debate when the President realised that he had not
:55:46. > :55:52.measured up to his own standards, and that he would have to roll up
:55:52. > :55:57.his sleeves and take a real run at it. I think he showed his stamina,
:55:57. > :56:02.his competitiveness and his dedication. I think he also showed
:56:02. > :56:07.his fight. You side in this campaign more than in the last
:56:07. > :56:13.three years. To any extent we have seen more of the President, we have
:56:13. > :56:17.seen that aspect of him. I thought the appears with his campaign aides
:56:17. > :56:24.showed the emotional side of him, and how much she is involved in
:56:24. > :56:29.this job. Pretty much his first statement after re-election was to
:56:29. > :56:36.call for tax rises for the rich in America. The Republicans are saying,
:56:36. > :56:43.no way. There is a serious danger of gridlock in Washington? There is
:56:43. > :56:47.that. What is so sad about this, Andrew, as you know, is that
:56:47. > :56:53.everyone knows that his grand bargain it must and can be made,
:56:53. > :56:57.and ultimately it will be made. The President is in a position that is
:56:57. > :57:05.a little bit different. It is different from his position before
:57:05. > :57:10.the election. Not only did he gain seats in the Senate, it was
:57:10. > :57:15.predicted that he would lose, but he ran the entire campaign on the
:57:15. > :57:21.question of policy is approaching the deficit. He can say to his
:57:21. > :57:25.opponents in Congress, it is not just a matter of whether I am right,
:57:25. > :57:31.whether it is morally right that if we're cutting entitlements we have
:57:31. > :57:36.got to increase taxes on the most wealthy, I have no choice now, the
:57:36. > :57:43.American people expect this to happen. My own party expects this
:57:44. > :57:48.to happen. They will insist on it. This is a classic political issue.
:57:48. > :57:57.I think it strengthens his position. There are lots of people changes as
:57:57. > :58:03.well. The biggest surprise for President Obama has been the loss
:58:03. > :58:08.of the head of the CIA after an extra-marital affair. How serious
:58:08. > :58:12.is it to lose General Petraeus at this moment? He was part of his
:58:12. > :58:18.team and whenever President loses a major component of his national
:58:18. > :58:26.security team, it is a blow. The great thing about General Petraeus
:58:26. > :58:32.was his record of service in the military. Also, his intelligence
:58:32. > :58:37.and his analytical capacity. It transferred to the directorship of
:58:37. > :58:43.the CIA. It was an asset for the President to have him there and he
:58:43. > :58:47.will be difficult to replace. have been very close to Bill
:58:47. > :58:52.Clinton and Hillary Clinton. What do you think about Hillary
:58:52. > :59:01.Clinton's chances of becoming the Democrats'' next presidential
:59:01. > :59:05.candidate, but also America's first female president? I do, I do. I
:59:05. > :59:11.expect to see her as a major candidate if not the president-
:59:11. > :59:16.elect. I think she has done an amazing job of Secretary -- I think
:59:16. > :59:20.she has done an amazing job as secretary of state. She has
:59:20. > :59:27.satisfied a everyone that she is qualified to be president of the
:59:27. > :59:32.United States. I think she's closer to the presidency now than in 2007.
:59:33. > :59:36.You struggled with the issue of trying to close Guantanamo Bay and
:59:36. > :59:41.the President disappointed a lot of his liberal supporters. Do you
:59:41. > :59:48.think we will see a bolder president in his second term?
:59:48. > :59:51.take issue with one premise of the question. That is that President
:59:51. > :59:59.Obama was the person who changed his mind about closing Guantanamo
:59:59. > :00:04.Bay. To this day, I think President Obama wants to close Guantanamo Bay
:00:04. > :00:09.and would have closed Guantanamo Bay had he had a partner in it from
:00:09. > :00:14.the republican side of the House of Representatives. One of the things
:00:14. > :00:18.that we found to our surprise in 2009 was that the Republican Party
:00:18. > :00:26.in Congress was opposing everything that President Obama wanted to
:00:26. > :00:31.accomplish. For that reason it became very difficult without that
:00:31. > :00:34.bipartisan support, to close Guantanamo Bay. I do not blame
:00:34. > :00:44.President Obama as someone who cared a lot about closing
:00:44. > :00:44.
:00:44. > :00:50.Some people said 2008 was the election Toulouse, but possibly the
:00:50. > :00:54.next four years, it you avoid the fiscal crisis and if you avoid
:00:54. > :01:03.gridlock, this could be a very good period for America, economically
:01:03. > :01:07.speaking. I agree with that assessment. To paraphrase, the
:01:07. > :01:15.greatest threat to our national security right now is not the
:01:15. > :01:20.international threat from Iran or terrorism, it is the ability of
:01:20. > :01:25.Congress to function which prevents things from getting dumb. That
:01:25. > :01:31.means we are one agreement away from economic growth and prosperity
:01:31. > :01:36.that has been unequalled for many years. If we can achieve that
:01:36. > :01:42.agreement, and both sides have got a compromise and come together, I
:01:42. > :01:46.think the prospects for this being one of the best decades America has
:01:46. > :01:51.ever had are very high. There is confidence about where the economy
:01:51. > :01:55.is going, There is a sense that we are on the right track, and if we
:01:55. > :02:01.can just get beyond the disputes having to do with our deficit
:02:01. > :02:06.reduction package, I think we are in great shape. Nice to hear
:02:06. > :02:11.someone sounding optimistic. We have got a lot more to come on this
:02:11. > :02:19.extended programme, but first over to the news headlines. The chairman
:02:19. > :02:25.of the BBC Trust has paid tribute to George Entwistle, who resigned
:02:25. > :02:30.last night as director general. He said he was a good man, cerebral,
:02:30. > :02:35.decent, honest and brave, who had been trying to do the right things.
:02:35. > :02:40.The tragedy is that two weeks after he set himself to start doing those
:02:40. > :02:45.things, he was overwhelmed by a crisis which was partly caused by
:02:45. > :02:51.some of those things. It you are saying, does the BBC needed Thora
:02:51. > :02:55.structural radical overhaul? Then absolutely. The Home Secretary said
:02:55. > :02:59.the crisis strikes at the heart of the BBC because it concerned the
:02:59. > :03:02.credibility of its journalism, which was at the core of the
:03:02. > :03:07.organisation's purpose. Theresa May said the BBC had a job
:03:07. > :03:10.to do to restore public trust. That cheat of the Defence Staff has
:03:10. > :03:17.revealed there are contingency plans for possible military
:03:17. > :03:20.intervention in Syria. In an interview, General Sir David
:03:20. > :03:28.Richards said all options are being examined and it would not be
:03:28. > :03:34.impossible to mount a limited organisation, saying nothing is off
:03:34. > :03:41.the table in dealing with Iran. That is everything from me. The
:03:41. > :03:45.next news on BBC One is at 1:15pm. A among those remembered today will
:03:45. > :03:50.be the 437 servicemen and women who have lost their lives in
:03:50. > :03:54.Afghanistan, and the many others who have suffered injuries. For
:03:54. > :04:00.some, the sporting opportunities have been central to their recovery.
:04:00. > :04:10.It begins here at the Defence Medical rehabilitation centre at
:04:10. > :04:10.
:04:10. > :04:16.Headley caught before a move to a specialist training centre. One of
:04:16. > :04:21.the athletes was Derek Derenalagi, who was blown up by a roadside bomb.
:04:21. > :04:25.Here he is telling his story. almost dead in Afghanistan and
:04:25. > :04:35.every Remembrance Sunday after my injury is always a special day for
:04:35. > :04:51.
:04:51. > :05:01.When they were operating on me in the theatre in camp bastion, one of
:05:01. > :05:01.
:05:01. > :05:10.the medical staff back then in 2007 saw a slight pulse on May and
:05:10. > :05:20.changed their plans from put in me in the body back. How can go back
:05:20. > :05:20.
:05:20. > :05:25.to the first day when I threw the discus. I think it was in Stoke
:05:25. > :05:30.Mandeville in 2010 and I said to myself I will be doing this in
:05:30. > :05:40.London, 2012. So many people said no, you can't make it Derek because
:05:40. > :05:40.
:05:40. > :05:50.it will take a while to train. It takes a few years. I did respect
:05:50. > :05:52.
:05:52. > :05:57.the opinions, but I trained hard to try and make it, and I did it....
:05:57. > :06:04.That's because you are a superstar, Derek. What really affects us
:06:04. > :06:10.marked a lot is the mental side of life and we struggled in that area,
:06:10. > :06:16.most of my colleagues, we struggle. Like I have said, it is not just
:06:17. > :06:21.training. It is not just coming and doing sport all the time, it is
:06:21. > :06:24.everything, especially your own mind set. You have to be ready
:06:24. > :06:31.every time you go training because if you don't have the right
:06:31. > :06:37.attitude you won't achieve what you are looking to achieve in life. For
:06:37. > :06:42.me, everything - family, colleagues, especially because I'm still in the
:06:42. > :06:46.military, and the support I get from my colleagues sending me text
:06:46. > :06:51.messages and messages on Facebook - it really encouraged me and to see
:06:51. > :06:56.my mates in the regiment, friends and colleagues all over the country
:06:56. > :07:01.and abroad as well, especially my family, my wife really helps me a
:07:01. > :07:05.lot, because if I don't have the support from my wife and immediate
:07:05. > :07:10.family, I wouldn't have achieved what I have done, to represent
:07:10. > :07:19.Great Britain in the Paralympic Games. So it is not just about
:07:19. > :07:23.sports. The way I look at it is to put a smile on someone's face, if
:07:23. > :07:28.someone has been struck by whatever things that he or she has gone
:07:28. > :07:34.through in life, to put a smile back on her face, that is a big
:07:34. > :07:40.deal to me. I always feel emotional when it comes to Remembrance
:07:40. > :07:44.weekend, especially on Sunday. It means a lot because looking back,
:07:44. > :07:48.seeing some of my very close friends who have been killed in the
:07:48. > :07:53.battlefield in Afghanistan and most of my colleagues have been injured
:07:53. > :07:59.as well like me, but Remembrance Sunday is so special to me
:07:59. > :08:07.personally and to my family. To look back at the sacrifice that the
:08:07. > :08:13.four fathers of our country have done so that we can live in freedom.
:08:13. > :08:21.I am a born again Christian, and my faith really comes into it as well,
:08:21. > :08:27.and just to remind me there if you keep everything that has happened
:08:27. > :08:35.to your friends and families, and those who have sacrificed their
:08:35. > :08:41.lives, the way I look at it, is be Viki those things and what has
:08:41. > :08:47.happened to them, it will not help. The strap helps to keep me up right
:08:47. > :08:52.so if I fell forward I would be disqualified. That is the reason I
:08:52. > :09:02.am clipping the strapped together. It is just trying to get the
:09:02. > :09:09.
:09:09. > :09:15.separation between your arm and you're -- your hip. I am so
:09:15. > :09:25.thankful I am alive today. Losing to lens does not matter. What
:09:25. > :09:26.
:09:26. > :09:32.matters is still enjoying life today. The Paralympic athlete and
:09:32. > :09:36.soldier, Derek Derenalagi, and his story is a powerful reminder of the
:09:36. > :09:42.toll Afghanistan has taken on the armed forces. Hundreds of British
:09:42. > :09:48.troops have died there, and they will be remembered today. Earlier I
:09:48. > :09:52.spoke to the chief of the Defence Staff, General Sir David Richards,
:09:52. > :09:58.about the challenges ahead and notably what might happen in Syria.
:09:58. > :10:04.First, he told me what Remembrance Day means to him. I would like to
:10:04. > :10:09.emphasise that while we remember those people and we are morning
:10:09. > :10:13.them, it is time also to remember what they have achieved and
:10:13. > :10:20.celebrate the freedoms they allowed other people. You think of the
:10:20. > :10:24.Second World War, places like Sierra Leona, Afghanistan even, I
:10:25. > :10:28.know what is controversial. A lot of people are living better lives
:10:28. > :10:32.because of the efforts of these people so I tend to balance my
:10:32. > :10:38.sense of grief with a sense of celebration of what they have
:10:38. > :10:43.achieved. He mentioned the Second World War, and for most people that
:10:43. > :10:47.was the Good War, an existential battle against evil, and people are
:10:47. > :10:53.less sure about something like Afghanistan, when we are going to
:10:53. > :10:59.be pulling out in 2014, and the question is what do we leave behind
:10:59. > :11:04.there? Do you think the government will be able to say this was a
:11:04. > :11:08.Walworth fighting? Firstly, if you look at why we went in it was
:11:08. > :11:15.because of the threat emanating from there. In that narrow sense
:11:15. > :11:21.there is no doubt there has been no attacks launched on this country or
:11:21. > :11:24.other Western nations from Afghanistan since 2001. That is
:11:24. > :11:29.worth hanging on to when there are a lot of people around the world
:11:29. > :11:37.who would still seek to do that. We have squeezed out that opportunity
:11:37. > :11:41.and saved a lot of British and other lives. More widely I think
:11:41. > :11:46.the armed forces are committed to this operation and I think we can
:11:46. > :11:50.pull it off. We have lost about a quarter of the soldiers killed from
:11:50. > :11:54.so-called green on blue, from Afghans who we are supposed to be
:11:54. > :12:00.training to defend their own country, turning around and killing
:12:00. > :12:06.our people. Soldiers expect to die, but losing a quarter this year like
:12:06. > :12:11.that must cause problems for morale, surely? It is only a quarter this
:12:11. > :12:15.year and to import and to hang on to that. Because our overall
:12:15. > :12:22.casualty levels are down, which is a good thing, it looks a bigger
:12:22. > :12:29.threat than it probably is. There was some misunderstanding about it.
:12:29. > :12:34.Most of those who are doing this to us actually members of the Taliban
:12:34. > :12:41.or have been got at by the Taliban. When people say this is the Afghan
:12:41. > :12:45.army and police doing it, it is the Taliban using a tactic that is very
:12:45. > :12:49.effective, playing on our minds, because of the impact it has on
:12:49. > :12:59.people like you and people who are influenced including the
:12:59. > :13:03.
:13:03. > :13:10.politicians, but actually it is a - - about 0.02 %. Only about 4% of
:13:10. > :13:15.our casualties have been caused through that way. When I had Philip
:13:15. > :13:21.Hammond in the seat, he was suggesting perhaps 4000-5000 troops
:13:21. > :13:28.may come home next year. Is that do wobble? I watched that interview
:13:28. > :13:32.very carefully. He slipped in the term 4000 and he didn't correct it.
:13:32. > :13:38.He didn't dissent. The he was already answering your next point,
:13:38. > :13:45.and he said he expects us to draw down by many thousands, but not as
:13:45. > :13:51.many as you took away from that. not 4000? No, that is not the
:13:51. > :13:56.intention. We still await the plan and we have to see what NATO and
:13:56. > :14:03.the US decide to do, and we will make sure we conform with that plan
:14:03. > :14:07.as we always have because we can't go wrong if we do that. But you can
:14:07. > :14:12.get several thousand out? The will be a substantial reduction by the
:14:12. > :14:16.end of next year and the plans are already laid to achieve that. It
:14:16. > :14:22.will be in the thousands and we will be out of the combat role by
:14:22. > :14:27.the end of 2014. The key is to make sure Afghan confidence levels are
:14:27. > :14:31.maintained because we need them to look after us as we draw down so it
:14:31. > :14:35.is important to get this right. There seems to be a mood in
:14:35. > :14:40.Washington that things have to be speeded up, and Obama wants to get
:14:40. > :14:46.his people back as soon as possible. I sense that but I believe we have
:14:46. > :14:51.a plant that will deliver what we need, witches and Afghan police
:14:51. > :14:56.force and army which are able to take on a reduced insurgency, but
:14:56. > :15:02.the important part of this is the political process. We have spoken
:15:02. > :15:06.about the need to bring the Taliban into the solution. President Karzai
:15:06. > :15:11.it is determined to do it, the Pakistanis want to do it, and a lot
:15:11. > :15:16.of Taliban it would appear also want to. Are you comfortable with
:15:16. > :15:26.losing 20,000 soldiers from the regular army and replacing that
:15:26. > :15:29.
:15:29. > :15:35.In theory, we end up with a larger army. Those 30,000... In the
:15:35. > :15:41.reserves? They are all reserves, but as part of the brand new
:15:41. > :15:46.contract which we are devising, we have until 2015 to get this right,
:15:46. > :15:51.they will have an obligation to serve when required, about every
:15:51. > :15:57.one year in five. The Territorial Army has done brilliantly and will
:15:57. > :16:03.continue to do brilliantly, but we have got to integrate them fully. I
:16:03. > :16:13.am comfortable with it, and we had to create headroom for many more
:16:13. > :16:13.
:16:13. > :16:21.brand new technologies. UN Man de air vehicles, space, in the future.
:16:21. > :16:25.If we stuck rigorously, we would still be going to battle on horses.
:16:25. > :16:29.Syria's President Assad has said in effect that the West cannot
:16:29. > :16:35.intervene militarily in his country because it would create a dominant
:16:35. > :16:40.-- because it would create a domino effect? Is he correct? It would be
:16:40. > :16:46.a massive effort. I do not think there is any intention to do at the
:16:46. > :16:52.moment. These humanitarian situation this winter will, I think,
:16:53. > :16:58.deteriorate. It may provoke intervention in a limited way, but
:16:58. > :17:03.there is no ultimate military reason why one should not. I know
:17:03. > :17:08.that these options are being examined. If we had a horrendous
:17:08. > :17:13.humanitarian situation this winter, it is not inconceivable or
:17:13. > :17:20.impossible to intervene, at least in some part of Syria to try and
:17:20. > :17:25.protect people? I think that is true. Obviously we developed
:17:25. > :17:29.contingency plans to look at these things. So there is a way that it
:17:29. > :17:34.could be done if that is what the political masters said? Or of
:17:34. > :17:38.course. It is my job to make sure that these options are continually
:17:38. > :17:42.brushed over to make sure that we can deliver them and they are
:17:42. > :17:50.credible, but I think we are focusing on containing the crisis
:17:50. > :17:56.so it does not spill into Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey. That is our
:17:56. > :17:59.primary focus but they could also accommodate a humanitarian crisis.
:17:59. > :18:04.Do you think we will be seeing British military involvement around
:18:04. > :18:09.the borders of Syria, both in that containment and on these
:18:09. > :18:16.humanitarian side? It is certainly something that we have got to look
:18:16. > :18:25.at and we have limited assistance, because they are allies of flowers,
:18:25. > :18:31.we have small numbers of people deployed there. We are keeping our
:18:31. > :18:33.awareness high. I think the main thing right now is the
:18:33. > :18:38.international community and the political leaders, they need to
:18:38. > :18:44.decide what they want to do and then people like me can develop
:18:44. > :18:50.plans to knead those requirements. At the same time, the people inside
:18:50. > :18:58.Syria must agree. It has been said it would be inconceivable to engage
:18:58. > :19:01.in military operations against Iran. Would that be your view? The Prime
:19:01. > :19:07.Minister and President Obama have said that nothing is off the table.
:19:07. > :19:13.It would be fraught the writ -- it would be fraught with risk, but I
:19:13. > :19:17.have to continue to keep that one alive. Thank you for speaking to us.
:19:17. > :19:21.General Sir David Richards. Folk music does not really do
:19:21. > :19:24.superstars, but if it did, there is no doubt Kate Rusby would have her
:19:24. > :19:27.name up in lights. Winner of numerous awards, for albums like
:19:27. > :19:32.Underneath The Stars, she is now marking two decades as a singer
:19:32. > :19:35.songwriter. Kate Rusby's latest album, Twenty, revisits some of the
:19:35. > :19:37.songs that have defined her career, with iconic names like Dick Gaughan,
:19:37. > :19:43.Richard Thompson and Paul Weller, and which inspired a new generation
:19:43. > :19:48.of folk artists like Mumford & Sons and Laura Marling.
:19:48. > :19:53.Good morning. Lovely to have you here. Thank you for having us.
:19:53. > :19:58.us about the state of folk music because you emerged in the 1990s,
:19:58. > :20:04.head of the rest of them. We are seeing more going on, but is not
:20:04. > :20:10.really backed up by the big money at like rock-and-roll. I think that
:20:10. > :20:17.might ruin it a bit. Part of the appeal of folk music is that
:20:17. > :20:21.everybody just ploughs on with it themselves. It is stronger for it.
:20:21. > :20:29.You're a very successful recording artist, but as most of the fan come
:20:29. > :20:34.from live performances. I know you were up late last night? Yes, we
:20:34. > :20:40.drove down from Derby. We had a great time. A lot of the folk
:20:40. > :20:45.artists like myself, we have our own record labels. Even though you
:20:45. > :20:52.Sales, you can still make a living from it. My whole family and
:20:52. > :20:58.implied in our record company. your parents are musicians? Yes,
:20:58. > :21:03.mac paints both sing and play bass instruments. That is why me and my
:21:03. > :21:08.siblings started playing. I have been in it since I was born.
:21:08. > :21:16.their brand-new people coming in all the time, it is alive? Aid used
:21:16. > :21:18.to be an old fashioned thing. only need to go to festivals like
:21:18. > :21:26.Cambridge Folk Festival and you will see the array of music on
:21:26. > :21:32.offer. We say folk music, but anything goes these days. The sums
:21:32. > :21:39.you're going to sing for us now. This is called Underneath The Stars.
:21:39. > :21:44.When did you write it? About six years ago, something like that.
:21:44. > :21:48.is one of your favourites. We will enjoy that in just a moment.
:21:48. > :21:54.We're just about at the end of this extended programme. Coverage of
:21:54. > :21:57.events to mark Remembrance Sunday follows this programme. We are back
:21:57. > :22:00.next week with a selection of politicians and more music. But for
:22:00. > :22:10.now, I will leave you with the voice of Kate Rusby and Underneath
:22:10. > :22:18.
:22:18. > :22:28.# Underneath the stars I'll meet # Underneath the stars I'll greet
:22:28. > :22:38.# There beneath the stars I'll leave you
:22:38. > :22:53.
:22:53. > :22:54.# Before you go of your own free will
:22:54. > :22:56.# Here beneath the stars I'm landing
:22:56. > :23:00.# And here beneath the stars not ending
:23:00. > :23:03.# Why on earth am I pretending? # I'm here again, the stars
:23:03. > :23:13.befriending # They come and go of their own
:23:13. > :23:17.
:23:17. > :23:27.free will # Underneath the stars you met me
:23:27. > :23:28.