:00:39. > :00:43.Good morning. Horsemeat is on our menu this Sunday. I hope it is not
:00:43. > :00:47.on yours. Looking at the papers, one supermarket boss does the
:00:47. > :00:50.Telegraph that the pressure to sell the cheapest stuff inevitably
:00:50. > :00:54.strains the supply chain. Here to take the strain out of reading all
:00:54. > :00:58.the Sunday papers, two people who have done it for you, then editor
:00:58. > :01:03.of the Times and formerly editor of the Sunday Times, John Witherow,
:01:03. > :01:05.and the Labour peer Helena Kennedy. Beside that Telegraph front page on
:01:05. > :01:08.horsemeat, a whistleblower tells the Sunday Times that the
:01:08. > :01:13.Government ignored warnings about horsemeat illegally entering the
:01:13. > :01:18.food chain two years ago. This morning, we will ask the CEO of
:01:18. > :01:21.Iceland whether we are all paying an unexpected price for cheap food.
:01:21. > :01:25.Romanian horses have been identified as part of the problem
:01:25. > :01:29.in our food. Romanian people and Bulgarians are a problem for the
:01:29. > :01:34.Government, anxious that they don't flock here to take our benefits and
:01:34. > :01:37.eat our burgers. In a Europe which cherishes free movement of people,
:01:37. > :01:41.I will ask Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith how he
:01:41. > :01:44.plans to turn the government's warm words on restrictions into
:01:44. > :01:47.something tangible, especially after the Appeal Court ruled this
:01:47. > :01:51.week that schemes to force jobseekers to work were legally
:01:51. > :01:55.dodgy. With politicians inching towards a deal on press control
:01:55. > :01:58.that some argue flies in the face of the Leveson report, I will be
:01:58. > :02:01.asking the parents of Madeleine McCann if their evidence was a
:02:01. > :02:11.waste of time. And if nothing compares to Sinead
:02:11. > :02:18.
:02:18. > :02:23.O'Connor. She will be here, singing one of her new songs. First, this
:02:23. > :02:26.morning's news. Good morning. The Home Secretary is
:02:26. > :02:29.promising a new law to stop potentially dangerous foreign
:02:29. > :02:33.criminals staying in the UK by arguing their right to a family
:02:33. > :02:37.life here. In a newspaper article, Theresa May has accused some judges
:02:37. > :02:45.of ignoring government guidance which says the prisoner's human
:02:45. > :02:49.rights should be weighed against any risk to the public.
:02:49. > :02:52.You legislation to prevent convicted criminals avoiding
:02:52. > :02:56.deportation would be welcomed by the family of Amy Houston.
:02:56. > :03:03.The 12-year-old was injured after being struck by a car in Blackburn
:03:03. > :03:06.in 2003. The driver, who was jailed for four months, was due to be
:03:06. > :03:10.deported by won leave to stay in the UK after his lawyer argued that
:03:10. > :03:16.he had a right to family life as he had two children with a British
:03:16. > :03:18.woman. It is not an isolated case. Recent figures suggest that 177
:03:19. > :03:21.foreign criminals avoided deportation last year after
:03:21. > :03:26.convincing judges that they had a right to a family life in Britain.
:03:26. > :03:31.It is something the Home Secretary pledged to tackle during her
:03:31. > :03:35.Conservative Party speech in 2011. We will change the Immigration
:03:35. > :03:38.Rules for last of Now I'm a strongly-worded attack on the
:03:38. > :03:41.judiciary, Theresa May has he said the actions of a minority of
:03:41. > :03:44.immigration judges were not acceptable, and accused some judges
:03:44. > :03:48.of thinking they can ignore Parliament when they think it came
:03:48. > :03:51.to the wrong conclusion. She said a new Immigration Bill
:03:51. > :03:55.will be published later this year to give full legal weight to
:03:55. > :03:59.ministers' demands that foreign criminals should not routinely be
:03:59. > :04:03.able to avoid deportation by citing the European Convention of Human
:04:03. > :04:06.Rights. Mrs may also warned that the delay in getting back onto the
:04:06. > :04:12.statute book would inevitably mean there would be more victims of
:04:12. > :04:16.violent crimes committed by foreigners in this country.
:04:16. > :04:19.People accused of sexual crimes should not be named until they have
:04:19. > :04:22.been convicted, according to the head of the organisation which
:04:22. > :04:26.represents barristers in England and Wales. Currently, the victims
:04:26. > :04:30.of sex offences are automatically given anonymity, but but not
:04:30. > :04:33.defendants. Maura McGowan, the chair of the Bar Council, says
:04:33. > :04:38.there is a case for changing the law because of the stigma that
:04:38. > :04:41.comes with being accused of a sexual crime.
:04:41. > :04:45.An investigation has begun after a woman was killed by a car that was
:04:45. > :04:49.competing in the Scottish Rally Championship. 50-year-old Joy
:04:49. > :04:54.Robson was watching the rally near Loch Ness yesterday, when a car
:04:54. > :04:58.left the track and hit spectators. Two other people including an
:04:58. > :05:04.eight-year-old boy were injured. A teenager has died after he was
:05:04. > :05:08.shot in east London last night. The 19-year-old boy was attacked in a
:05:08. > :05:12.street in Clapton. A 32-year-old man was also shot and injured. He
:05:12. > :05:17.is in hospital in a stable condition. Detectives are trying to
:05:17. > :05:20.work out a motive for the shooting. The Pope will make one of his final
:05:20. > :05:24.public appearances this morning as he blesses thousands of people in
:05:24. > :05:29.St Peter's Square. Pope Benedict XVI announced his retirement last
:05:29. > :05:33.week and will leave his role at the end of the month. Cardinals who
:05:33. > :05:36.will choose his successor before Easter have started arriving in
:05:36. > :05:43.Rome. I will be back to the headlines
:05:43. > :05:47.before 10 o'clock. Let's look at the front pages. This
:05:47. > :05:52.is the one I mentioned earlier, the Sunday Telegraph with a warning
:05:52. > :05:56.from the boss of Waitrose. We will have the boss of Iceland on the
:05:56. > :06:01.programming just a while. In the Sunday Times, it would not be a
:06:01. > :06:04.Sunday without a Cabinet split story, this time over Beijing.
:06:04. > :06:09.There is also a story about Prince Andrew. It is quite a feast this
:06:09. > :06:13.week if you are a fan of George Osborne. There is a story about a
:06:13. > :06:17.tax and the Liberals. There is another front-page story with
:06:18. > :06:21.George Osborne, pledging global action on tax abuse. And there is
:06:21. > :06:26.again on the front of the Independent, in a stories
:06:26. > :06:31.suggesting that with the inflation rate being higher than was forecast,
:06:31. > :06:35.spending on education is falling. The Sunday Express - immigrant
:06:35. > :06:40.crime soars. We will talk about that with Iain Duncan Smith in a
:06:40. > :06:45.while. And as well as Hugh Grant, who is a virulent campaign against
:06:45. > :06:49.the worst excesses of the press, there is a story suggesting that
:06:49. > :06:54.the Liberal Democrats might want to be snipping all over your house to
:06:54. > :06:59.find out you are -- how much you are worth. Welcome to her Eleanor
:06:59. > :07:04.and John. John, it is your first time and my first time. Helena, you
:07:04. > :07:10.are a veteran. What have you found? There are a number of papers
:07:10. > :07:15.covering stories about immigration. It is always a popular thing for
:07:15. > :07:22.politicians to reach for. I was disappointed that this story is in
:07:22. > :07:27.the Daily Mail on the front page and also inside. It is a blistering
:07:27. > :07:29.attack from the Home Secretary on judges. This depresses me, because
:07:29. > :07:34.it is a common story with Home Secretaries that this is what they
:07:34. > :07:39.end up doing. She says she will fight any judge who stands in her
:07:39. > :07:44.way. Would she win? We have to remember that this is about the
:07:44. > :07:51.independence of the judiciary and why that is so important. It is
:07:51. > :07:54.imperative that judges are not under the thumb of Home Secretaries.
:07:54. > :07:59.It is of course frustrating for Home Secretaries, but it is not
:07:59. > :08:02.good to see a vocal attack on the judges. But the suggestion is that
:08:02. > :08:07.they have been ignoring the guidance and keeping too many
:08:07. > :08:10.foreign criminals in this country. But there are no statistics as to
:08:10. > :08:18.the number of cases. There was one case mentioned in the Daily Mail
:08:18. > :08:21.about a young man who was being allowed to stay after being
:08:21. > :08:25.sentenced. The purpose of criminal courts is to sentence people for
:08:25. > :08:30.the crimes they commit. Then it falls to the immigration courts to
:08:30. > :08:33.decide if they should be deported. Sometimes the criminal courts make
:08:33. > :08:38.orders that someone should be considered for deportation. It is a
:08:38. > :08:42.hard decision when someone says, my mother, father, sisters and
:08:42. > :08:45.brothers are in this country, and I am to be sent back to the country
:08:45. > :08:49.from where I originally came, with nobody? That presumably the judges
:08:49. > :08:54.would be happy with new legislation to clarify that.
:08:54. > :08:59.A well, we had a new legislation not long ago and the guidelines are
:08:59. > :09:02.clear. But judges have to make subtle decisions about what you do
:09:03. > :09:08.if the community is being protected by the sentences of the criminal
:09:08. > :09:11.courts. Then when they come out, hopefully they will not offend
:09:11. > :09:15.again. Do they stay with their families or go back? The numbers we
:09:15. > :09:20.are talking about are miniscule. This is a populist bit of
:09:20. > :09:25.politicking. John, you edited the Sunday Times for 18 years. Now you
:09:25. > :09:34.edit the Times. Has the Sunday Times gone downhill? Quite the
:09:34. > :09:38.contrary. The one I want to highlight is this piece on the
:09:38. > :09:44.anniversary of the death of Marie Colvin, the Sunday Times' Middle-
:09:44. > :09:47.East correspondent who was killed in Syria a year ago this week. The
:09:47. > :09:54.Sunday Times has sent another impressive woman correspondent,
:09:54. > :09:59.Lebanese born, to find the spot where Marie was killed. Sadly, she
:09:59. > :10:05.could not. The place is now so destroyed by this terrible civil
:10:05. > :10:09.war that she could not find it. She found out that town is the same as
:10:09. > :10:13.it was a year ago, so there has been no progress. It is mainly
:10:13. > :10:19.controlled by the rebel army. We are now almost two years into the
:10:19. > :10:24.Syrian civil war, and it is a stalemate. More than 70,000 people
:10:24. > :10:28.have been killed, and it is a terrible conflict. Marie, who was
:10:28. > :10:33.an extraordinary war and, I would like to think her death had made a
:10:33. > :10:37.difference, but sadly it didn't. But she did make a difference in
:10:37. > :10:45.many other ways. She was an inspiration to many women in
:10:45. > :10:49.journalism. One of the sad things in this is that the newspaper world
:10:49. > :10:56.is now no longer able to afford as many foreign correspondents as it
:10:56. > :11:01.once did. That is true. Luckily, the Times and Sunday Times are
:11:01. > :11:06.still sending people into Syria. People are still taking risks.
:11:06. > :11:10.Marie is indeed an inspiration, but it is tragic that a death like that
:11:10. > :11:15.could not have brought about more international involvement to try
:11:15. > :11:22.and solve this. What about the Telegraph and the horsemeat
:11:22. > :11:26.coverage? The horsemeat story has continued and continued. The
:11:26. > :11:34.Telegraph has on its front page a story about how the people most
:11:34. > :11:38.affected by this our shoppers who are having to live on short budgets.
:11:38. > :11:44.As the cuts are biting, they are increasingly looking for a cheap
:11:44. > :11:48.way of feeding families. The poorest people buy the cheapest
:11:48. > :11:53.food and they are most at risk from all of this. So there is a story
:11:53. > :11:57.here which is about, who is most affected? There is probably not one
:11:58. > :12:02.of us who has not eaten horsemeat in some form. When you are waiting
:12:02. > :12:07.shepherd's pie or something in some restaurant or the canteen at the
:12:07. > :12:12.Old Bailey, you are eating something that is contaminated.
:12:12. > :12:17.There is a canteen at the Old Bailey. Any of these places where
:12:17. > :12:21.we rush in to get food quickly is probably selling of this stuff.
:12:21. > :12:23.it terrible to eat? I know people do not want to eat horsemeat if
:12:23. > :12:27.they think it is something else, but Nigella Lawson was interviewed
:12:27. > :12:34.in the Daily Mail today and she said she was fed horsemeat all the
:12:34. > :12:40.time as a child. If you are receiving it as a delicacy which is
:12:40. > :12:44.a very fine, well prepared horsemeat, it is delicious, like
:12:44. > :12:48.prosciutto. But we are given to understand we are talking about
:12:48. > :12:54.scabby old horses from parts of the world where they really are being
:12:54. > :12:59.thrown on to the heap. And they are mashed up for by gesture. So there
:12:59. > :13:04.is a question about the quality of what it is. And you don't know what
:13:04. > :13:13.has been put into the waltzers, what sort of drugs. There is a
:13:13. > :13:19.story in the papers here, the Sunday Times actually, about how
:13:19. > :13:24.horsemeat warnings were ignored. Two years ago, actually, it is a
:13:24. > :13:31.Sunday Telegraph story about how the Government was alerted to this.
:13:31. > :13:34.We have been seeing a lightening up on the FSA, the agency that should
:13:34. > :13:39.regulate food, they have been lightening up on their inspections
:13:39. > :13:46.for a period of time. It is a global thing. We will talk more
:13:46. > :13:53.about that with the CEO of Iceland. In is about maximising profits.
:13:53. > :13:57.John, you have the Daily Mail front page about the heirloom tax? There
:13:57. > :14:01.are a lot of tax stories around today, largely on the back of
:14:01. > :14:06.Labour changing its policy on the mansion tax and reinstating the 10
:14:06. > :14:10.pence starting tax. The Daily Mail has a story about how the Lib Dems
:14:10. > :14:14.explore other means of taxing us. They have come up with a novel one,
:14:14. > :14:18.which is to consider taxing people's jewellery, paintings and
:14:18. > :14:24.other assets. Taken to its logical extent, it means tax inspectors
:14:24. > :14:28.would have to go into people's houses. Luckily, I don't possess
:14:28. > :14:32.much jewellery of that kind. But I suspect you would find that they
:14:32. > :14:36.would look at people's insurance policies. They would look to see
:14:36. > :14:41.what you have insured, and for how much. And then people would be
:14:42. > :14:46.taxed that way. But then people would not insure their jewellery.
:14:46. > :14:49.It seems to take taxation to absurd levels. They should be looking at
:14:49. > :14:54.how to run government more efficiently, rather than raising
:14:54. > :15:00.taxes. But you have to look at behind this and what it is about.
:15:00. > :15:03.It is about the fact that the burden of most of the constraints
:15:03. > :15:07.is fallen on the shoulders of the poor. So people are looking at how
:15:07. > :15:11.this can be evened out a bit more. The well-to-do continue to be able
:15:11. > :15:15.to live a very different kind of life to the majority of people,
:15:15. > :15:19.including the middle classes. is related to one of the many
:15:19. > :15:24.George Osborne stories. I picked out at this story in the front
:15:24. > :15:27.pages of the Sunday Times, which is that Osborne is facing a challenge,
:15:27. > :15:31.not because the Conservative Party is looking increasingly like the
:15:31. > :15:36.party that is cushioning the well- off. Labour and the Liberal
:15:36. > :15:39.Democrats are trying to find ways of evening this kind of burden out.
:15:39. > :15:43.It is ordinary middle-class families and poor families who at
:15:44. > :15:47.the moment are suffering the consequences of this, not the well-
:15:47. > :15:51.to-do. So Ed Miliband has been looking at what the Liberal
:15:51. > :15:58.Democrats have come up with and is endorsing it and saying people
:15:58. > :16:01.don't need houses worth more than �2 million. That should be taxed.
:16:01. > :16:11.If you are talking about us all being in this together, you have to
:16:11. > :16:16.
:16:16. > :16:20.find ways of making it apply to the Another story in the Sunday Times
:16:20. > :16:24.about Pope Benedict? He has considerable influence on over who
:16:24. > :16:30.succeeds him. He has appointed a lot of cardinals.
:16:30. > :16:33.This story is he has appointed cardinals who have a bias towards
:16:33. > :16:38.selecting somebody from the third world. I think that would be a
:16:38. > :16:42.great idea. Wave had too many European popes for thousands of
:16:42. > :16:48.years now. To get somebody from Africa or Latin America I think
:16:48. > :16:54.would be a great step forward. So it is an encouraging storey. People
:16:54. > :16:59.have put money on the African cardinal.'S Frontrunner. What else
:17:00. > :17:06.have you go the? A story from the Mail? Everywhere there are stories
:17:06. > :17:16.from the terrible story of the killing in South Africa and the
:17:16. > :17:22.arrest of Oscar Pistorious. I picked up this story,,
:17:22. > :17:25."Bladerunner's victim's father says 'there isn't any hatred in our
:17:26. > :17:29.hearts'." There is something where there is terrible tragedy people
:17:29. > :17:32.reach to the better part of themselves and haven't reached a
:17:32. > :17:35.judgment adds it whether he is guilty of murder or not. They have
:17:35. > :17:39.lost their child, their daughter. They are not looking to immediately
:17:40. > :17:45.call out for revenge but are actually saying - we aren't hating
:17:45. > :17:49.anybody and certainly not the man who has been arrested. We just feel
:17:49. > :17:54.the loss of our child. There is something wonderful when people
:17:54. > :17:58.beyond in that kind of way to a tragedy. There is a big story here
:17:58. > :18:05.in the Sunday Times. It is a shot in the dark, describing all the
:18:05. > :18:12.events but one of the columnists, Kevin McCalum from Johannesburg is
:18:12. > :18:17.saying he actually once interviewed Oscar Pistorious and saw he kept
:18:17. > :18:22.beside his bed at gun at easy reach. I know South Africa is a dangerous
:18:22. > :18:30.place and there are break-ins but the business of firearms being so
:18:30. > :18:36.readily available leads to this sort of tragedy. You have a story
:18:36. > :18:41.about Hugh Grant. They mention his baby joy. Yes, he is the leader of
:18:41. > :18:48.habgd off, leading the campaign to regulate the press more closely. --
:18:48. > :18:51.Hacked Off. He has had a second baby. It was his will that the
:18:51. > :18:55.woman wasn't identified earlier. And the effect of Leveson is the
:18:55. > :19:00.press have stayed well-clear of Hugh Grant.
:19:00. > :19:04.The Mail sent him a text saying - congratulations on your son, would
:19:04. > :19:09.you like to comment? How did they know We will a very to find out at
:19:09. > :19:13.some stage. Then he tweeted that he was delighted to have another child.
:19:14. > :19:18.It is very Leveson-compliant and presumably Hugh Grant is content
:19:18. > :19:22.with the way it has come out. That's some of the effect you are
:19:22. > :19:26.seeing of Leveson already. Are you one of the editors traipsing in and
:19:26. > :19:28.out of Downing Street having the chats about how Leveson will be
:19:28. > :19:32.responded to? I am. I have been meeting the Liberal Democrats and
:19:32. > :19:35.Labour, too. How close is the Government to coming up to
:19:35. > :19:39.something everyone can agree on? I think they have come up with a neat
:19:39. > :19:45.solution, frankly it. Takes in most of Leveson's recommendations it.
:19:45. > :19:50.Doesn't go for statute, rightly, I believe. It has come up with a Rhyl
:19:50. > :19:56.charter. Helena is giving me a look, I don't think she believes it.
:19:56. > :20:00.don't believe it. It would impose the toughest form of self-
:20:00. > :20:04.regulation anywhere in the world. I think what is on the table is very
:20:04. > :20:08.tough on the press. We don't like all of it. We don't like exemplary
:20:08. > :20:13.damages at all, but I think the Liberal Democrats and Labour should
:20:13. > :20:18.agree to it. Do you think Labour has shifted? Ed Miliband was pretty
:20:18. > :20:22.clear immediately after Leveson reported? There was contradictory
:20:22. > :20:25.statements coming out of them. are having the private discussions.
:20:25. > :20:31.Well there are contradictory statements. The Liberal Democrats
:20:31. > :20:35.are not too far from accepting a Rhyl chart we are these terms -- --
:20:35. > :20:38.a Royal Charter it. Would take two- thirds of the House to change it.
:20:38. > :20:42.Why are you sceptical? I think reaching for a Royal Charter, one
:20:42. > :20:46.of the things we have been trying to use less and less a prerogative
:20:46. > :20:51.power, one of those powers this is unexamined and not democratic, is
:20:51. > :20:57.one of those things that I think is not the solution here. There has
:20:57. > :21:01.been a campaign by sections of the media to say that Leveson's report
:21:01. > :21:06.was calling for Government having its hands all over the press. That
:21:06. > :21:09.is not true. The idea is that there is simply an underpinning. There
:21:09. > :21:14.were no teeth in the Press Complaints Commssion before, this
:21:14. > :21:18.is to give it some teeth. It is simply to absolutely make sure that
:21:18. > :21:23.the self-regulation is working. You need to have some kind of
:21:23. > :21:26.legislation to make that happen and the press are on the run from all
:21:26. > :21:31.of this and they have done a very smart campaign suggesting that
:21:31. > :21:35.freedom of the press is at risk. Let's legislate for freedom of the
:21:35. > :21:38.press, that there should be public interest cases and so on and make
:21:38. > :21:43.sure it is protected but you have to protect the victims who have
:21:43. > :21:47.been given a terrible time by the media. If this doesn't stick, and
:21:47. > :21:51.you think you are close to an agreement but, it is either this or
:21:51. > :21:59.who know what is? I should think if it doesn't work there will be
:21:59. > :22:02.attempt to impose a statute it. Has incredible teeth, in fact it has
:22:02. > :22:06.jaws. It is powerful. I think the Opposition parties, well Labour
:22:06. > :22:09.would be sensible to accept it. Whale talk to Kate and Gerry McCann
:22:09. > :22:14.about this in a while. For now. Thank you very much.
:22:14. > :22:21.It was always sunny in Andrew's studios. What about everyonery
:22:21. > :22:23.where else. Here is Nick miller? where else. Here is Nick miller?
:22:23. > :22:27.-- But what about everywhere else? Today we complete a weekend of fine
:22:27. > :22:30.weather with that sunshine. After a chilly start for some of us, that
:22:30. > :22:34.temperature heading up the coast to where it should be at this time of
:22:34. > :22:36.year. We have more of a breeze towards the south coast, south-west
:22:36. > :22:40.and running through Northern Ireland. We have to wait sometime
:22:40. > :22:45.before it brightens up in Northern Ireland. Eventually this afternoon
:22:45. > :22:49.we should see sunshine coming through. It is a brighter day in
:22:49. > :22:53.western Scotland. The Moray cost and the north coast of Northern
:22:53. > :22:57.Ireland could see temperatures around 10 or 1 1. Hovering close to
:22:57. > :23:02.freezing in parts of England and Wales. And patchy fog in the south.
:23:02. > :23:05.But by 3.00pm we have recovered to around six to eight degrees. A
:23:05. > :23:09.windier day in the far south-west and west of Wales. It turns chilly
:23:09. > :23:12.this evening with clear skies. As the night goes on, the cloud
:23:12. > :23:15.increases to England and Wales. Meaning the frost here is patchy,
:23:15. > :23:23.more widespread frost. A colder night to come in Scot whrand some
:23:23. > :23:28.patches of mist and fog to start on Monday morning. -- in Scotland with
:23:28. > :23:31.patches of mist and fog. Tuesday more cloud from the east. From
:23:31. > :23:36.Wednesday, generally temperatures are lower and a windchill. The cold
:23:36. > :23:36.is coming back. Like it or lump it, the winter isn't finished with us
:23:36. > :23:44.the winter isn't finished with us the winter isn't finished with us
:23:44. > :23:46.In May 2007, a trip to the sun turned an anonymous British family
:23:46. > :23:50.into people who were nationally and internationally known. Kate and
:23:50. > :23:55.Gerry McCann's eldest daughter, Madeleine, went missing in Portugal.
:23:55. > :23:58.Initial media support turned into suspicion. The McCann's privacy was
:23:58. > :24:02.treated with contempt by sexes of the press who stopped at nothing to
:24:02. > :24:06.write something, anything about the couple wheb. They attended the
:24:06. > :24:10.Leveson inquiry, the McCanns were clear on why they had decided to
:24:11. > :24:14.take part. A system has to be put in place to protect ordinary people
:24:14. > :24:18.about the damage the media can cause (when it is your voice
:24:18. > :24:21.against a powerful media it, doesn't hold weight. We are
:24:21. > :24:26.desperately shouting out internally - please stop what you are doing.
:24:26. > :24:30.We are trying to find our daughter and you are stopping our chances.
:24:30. > :24:37.Among the worst offenders newspapers owned by the Express
:24:38. > :24:42.group. The McKprans shown some of their stories -- McCanns. It is
:24:42. > :24:48.disgusting. I think if memory serves right, they also said they
:24:48. > :24:53.stored her body in a freezer. got hold of of a copy of her
:24:53. > :24:59.private diary and published it without telling her. It was my way
:24:59. > :25:05.of communicating with Madeleine. There was no respect shown to
:25:05. > :25:15.Madeleine or a human building. hoped for a change in the law a new
:25:15. > :25:16.
:25:16. > :25:19.press regulator with legal backing. Kate and Jerry McCann, you heard
:25:19. > :25:26.John there talking about the Royal Charter idea. If that's what we end
:25:26. > :25:30.up with, was going to Leveson a west of your time? I think it
:25:30. > :25:34.certainly won't be what we were hoping to achieve. We very much
:25:34. > :25:37.disagree with, that Leveson was tough. I think Leveson has been
:25:37. > :25:38.generous to the press, and more than their behaviour or certain
:25:38. > :25:42.than their behaviour or certain sections of the media deserve,
:25:42. > :25:46.really. They are getting a last chance at
:25:46. > :25:50.self-regulation, which for me was actually a step too far. Can you
:25:50. > :25:54.explain from your point of view, what is the practical difference
:25:54. > :25:58.between what Leveson wanted and what now seems to be the
:25:58. > :26:01.compromise? What difference does that make I have three concerns at
:26:01. > :26:08.the minute: the first is the transparncy. The quienyir was open.
:26:08. > :26:11.You could see what was going -- the inquiry was open. You could see the
:26:11. > :26:15.evidence. What has happened is exactly what was talked about.
:26:15. > :26:19.There is a number of private meetings. The minutes or
:26:19. > :26:24.discussions are not published. That leads to serious concerns about
:26:24. > :26:27.independence of what is being proposed. Major part of Leveson was
:26:27. > :26:32.acknowledging that the press had got too close to politicians. The
:26:32. > :26:37.third concern for us, and what is being proposed, is we are going to
:26:37. > :26:41.end up with sub-Leveson recommendations, really.
:26:41. > :26:45.Particularly around independence. Both of the Board who are going to
:26:45. > :26:50.eversee it and the fact that there should be complete independence of
:26:50. > :26:54.the appointments of that board. struck by something you are quoted
:26:54. > :26:58.as saying, Gerry, "The Leveson package, including legal
:26:58. > :27:02.underpinning is the minimum acceptable compromise for us." I
:27:02. > :27:06.wonder if it was up to you, if they gave you the power to draft
:27:06. > :27:12.something, the if you tour of the press, what would you do? -- future
:27:12. > :27:18.of the press. To be honest, I have already said this to you, I feel
:27:18. > :27:23.that the press has lost its entitlement to self-regulation over
:27:24. > :27:27.many, many years. I would have liked to have seen actually
:27:27. > :27:32.statutory regulation, not self- regulation. I get the impression if
:27:32. > :27:39.it was up to you, you would go much further. People wouldn't blame you.
:27:39. > :27:43.What would you do? I would make it that there would be independent
:27:43. > :27:46.regulation. I think when we saw the Leveson recommendation, for us it
:27:46. > :27:49.was a seven out of ten. I think Lord Leveson has come up with
:27:49. > :27:54.something that is balanced and he has tried to be as fair as possible
:27:54. > :27:59.to every party involved. But I think what the Government are
:27:59. > :28:02.proposing with the charter, and a charter body is everseen by
:28:02. > :28:06.ministers which takes away the independence, it is a compromise of
:28:06. > :28:09.a compromise. Why do the press and Government not want to be
:28:09. > :28:14.accountable like everybody else? The press are the first to hold
:28:14. > :28:19.people in authority to account. you noticed any improvement in the
:28:19. > :28:22.press since Leveson? It's very difficult to say that. You only
:28:22. > :28:27.know about your own individual circumstances. Even there? Are
:28:27. > :28:32.things been better? Obviously the situation for us, we still have
:28:32. > :28:37.episodes where things are published which we would much prefer weren't
:28:37. > :28:43.published. There has been a recent headline, front page of a Sunday
:28:43. > :28:48.newspaper about a potential fleed Madeleine's case it. Hadn't been
:28:48. > :28:54.fully explord. -- potential lead which hadn't been fully explored.
:28:54. > :28:57.It is something we raised that Madeleine and her safety is often
:28:57. > :29:02.treated with contempt. We have no preDes currently and I have
:29:02. > :29:05.concerns if editors get what they want about w how complaints are
:29:05. > :29:09.dealt with, it would only be certain complaints and they could
:29:09. > :29:13.decide which ones. One of the things we are very, very concerned
:29:13. > :29:18.with is about accuracy and standards and consideration for the
:29:18. > :29:21.public. We want the regulator to be able to protect the interests of
:29:21. > :29:26.the public. The recent story about Madeleine that you were unhappy
:29:26. > :29:31.with. Did you try to speak to the paper concerned? I wrote to the
:29:31. > :29:35.editor the newspaper and explained my concerns. I have to say I got a
:29:35. > :29:39.reply back which made my blood boil. It was basically telling me that he,
:29:39. > :29:42.they knew what was best for Madeleine. They knew best what was
:29:42. > :29:45.for missing children. Despite what we as parents thought and despite
:29:45. > :29:48.what the Metropolitan Police thought, they knew what was best.
:29:48. > :29:54.That is really concerning. Post- Leveson inquiry that this is the
:29:54. > :29:57.pons we are getting. I believe -- this is the response we are getting.
:29:57. > :30:01.I believe if the Royal Charter goes through, this is what we will get.
:30:01. > :30:07.This is the chance, it might not come again. The public need to know
:30:07. > :30:11.what is happening. There has to be total transparency. What Leveson
:30:11. > :30:15.was proposing, is not what the Government is proposing. Do you
:30:15. > :30:19.have hope that what you want might come in? I have not given up hope.
:30:19. > :30:23.I think the vast majority of MPs are fully supportive Leveson. I
:30:23. > :30:26.have mentioned this before but if our parliamentarians want to redeem
:30:26. > :30:30.themselves in a public light, they know that the right thing is to
:30:30. > :30:40.implement Leveson in full, not a compromise, not a sop to the
:30:40. > :30:47.
:30:47. > :30:51.Would you eat a beef product if you knew there was a 1% chance of it
:30:51. > :30:55.containing horsemeat? Test results this week have not finished dish
:30:55. > :30:58.concerns about the provenance of our food. If we think horsemeat is
:30:58. > :31:02.distasteful, what about the prospect of suppliers, supermarkets
:31:02. > :31:06.and politicians blaming each other for the state of affairs? The Sun
:31:06. > :31:10.yesterday castigated cowardly retailers, saying they are still
:31:10. > :31:14.ducking key questions. Malcolm Walker is chief executive of the
:31:14. > :31:20.supermarket chain Iceland, and he is here to answer questions. When
:31:21. > :31:26.you see these disputes between politicians and supermarkets, where
:31:26. > :31:30.do you think it the responsibility lies? Well, the supermarkets are
:31:30. > :31:34.visible because they are on the high street. But supermarkets
:31:34. > :31:37.should not be blamed. British supermarkets have a fantastic
:31:38. > :31:41.reputation for food safety. They go to enormous lengths to protect
:31:41. > :31:46.their brand. If we are going to blame somebody, let's start with
:31:46. > :31:51.local authorities, because there is a whole side to this industry that
:31:51. > :31:56.is invisible. That is the catering industry. Schools, hospitals, it is
:31:56. > :32:00.a massive business for cheap food. Local authorities award contract
:32:01. > :32:05.based purely on price. So if you are looking to blame somebody for
:32:05. > :32:10.driving down food quality, it is invisible. It is schools, hospitals
:32:10. > :32:13.and prisons are, local authorities drive the price down. Sir is your
:32:13. > :32:16.message not to worry so much about the stuff you take home and cook
:32:16. > :32:20.yourself, but be vigilant because you don't know what you are eating
:32:20. > :32:27.outside the home? Supermarkets carry out an enormous range of
:32:27. > :32:31.testing procedures on every product that bears their name. OK, you
:32:31. > :32:41.could say we have not tested for horse, but why would we? We don't
:32:41. > :32:46.test for hedgehog either. We stand by our products. At Iceland, we
:32:46. > :32:49.have had no horsemeat in any of our products. And I don't believe
:32:49. > :32:54.supermarkets have either. We are talking about two different things
:32:54. > :32:59.- horsemeat flesh, and contamination. Anybody passing off
:32:59. > :33:03.horsemeat, horse carcasses cut up and sold into the industry, that is
:33:03. > :33:07.not going to the supermarket business. But because it is out
:33:07. > :33:10.there in the supply chain and in some of the factories, you are
:33:10. > :33:14.getting minute amounts of contamination. I take it you are
:33:14. > :33:18.joking about hedgehog, but three weeks ago, people would have
:33:18. > :33:21.assumed you were joking about horsemeat in our food. However
:33:21. > :33:27.minuscule the amount, we want to know that it is not there and that
:33:27. > :33:31.systems are in place to stop it. is not there. There is most --
:33:31. > :33:34.there is no horsemeat in any supermarket product. You are
:33:34. > :33:38.talking about contamination in microscopic amounts, and that is
:33:38. > :33:42.there because some rogues suppliers have been using their factories to
:33:42. > :33:49.process horsemeat for other purposes. It has not been going to
:33:49. > :33:53.supermarkets. Will there ever be a system whereby we can be at
:33:53. > :33:59.absolutely sure where every product has come from and be able to trace
:33:59. > :34:04.it back to source, or is that nuts? No. You have got it now for the
:34:04. > :34:08.majority of products. Supermarkets normally sell three levels of
:34:08. > :34:13.products - a premium brand, Standard brand and then the white
:34:13. > :34:16.label economy brand, which is made to a price. That is the one people
:34:16. > :34:25.should be looking at. But all the ingredients are clearly labelled on
:34:25. > :34:31.the back of the packet. Iceland has never sold economy products. We do
:34:31. > :34:36.not sell cheap food. We have one level of food. We know where all
:34:36. > :34:40.our food comes from. We follow the supply chain right the way through,
:34:40. > :34:44.and it is short. The majority of are ready meals are made in our own
:34:45. > :34:49.factory. The meat for that factory comes from our own cutting house.
:34:49. > :34:54.The meat from the other cutting house comes from farms in Wales. We
:34:54. > :34:58.know where it comes from. The boss of which rose today was casting
:34:58. > :35:02.aspersions in the newspapers today on cheap food, perhaps the sort of
:35:02. > :35:06.products you are talking about. Would you eat other supermarket Pym
:35:06. > :35:10.and value products? Personally, I would not eat value supermarket
:35:10. > :35:15.products, because they will not contain much meat. There will be
:35:15. > :35:22.other things in there, whether it is Rusk or filler or whatever it is.
:35:23. > :35:26.We don't sell economy products. am just wondering what happens if
:35:26. > :35:32.you have a choice of which level of food you want to eat, that is fine.
:35:32. > :35:37.But for people on a budget, what do they do? There is nothing wrong
:35:37. > :35:41.with those products. I am just saying that the real culprits in
:35:41. > :35:45.this are the catering industries. It is those backstreet
:35:45. > :35:49.manufacturers who are supplying products to the catering industry,
:35:49. > :35:53.and a lot of that is being bought by local authorities for schools
:35:53. > :35:58.and hospitals. That is where the problem really nice. What other
:35:58. > :36:04.action would you like from central government? I don't see what they
:36:04. > :36:08.can do. We are talking about one or two Road suppliers who have raided
:36:08. > :36:13.these premises. They can be stopped, and that will stop the supply going
:36:13. > :36:16.into the food chain. The government got a bloody nose in
:36:16. > :36:21.the courts this week over some of its back-to-work programmes in what
:36:21. > :36:25.became known as a Poundland case. Undeterred, it is determined to
:36:25. > :36:29.tweak the benefit system further in preparation for the arrival of a
:36:29. > :36:32.knows how many Romanians and Bulgarians next year. As from
:36:32. > :36:36.January 1st, there will be no restriction on how many choose to
:36:36. > :36:39.come to the UK to seek work and claim benefits, like anyone else
:36:39. > :36:42.who lives here. The Prime Minister this week said that he feared that
:36:42. > :36:47.people might come to Britain to take advantage of us, and added
:36:47. > :36:53.that there is a lot more to do to make sure we are not a soft touch.
:36:53. > :36:57.The Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is here. What
:36:57. > :37:04.about that Daily Mail story today? Theresa May is planning to
:37:04. > :37:14.introduce primary legislation to force judges to keep foreign
:37:14. > :37:15.
:37:15. > :37:18.criminals out of this country. reality is that the point she is
:37:18. > :37:22.making is supported by pretty much anyone in Parliament with any
:37:22. > :37:26.common sense. Over a period of time, judges seem to have moved across to
:37:26. > :37:35.the idea that somehow, this right to have a family life comes all
:37:35. > :37:39.other rights. Parliament has made it clear in previous legislation
:37:39. > :37:45.that if a criminal commits a crime, they should be in a stronger
:37:45. > :37:53.position to kick them out if they came from overseas. That is what
:37:53. > :37:58.she will tighten up in the guidance. I wonder if she is not closing the
:37:58. > :38:03.stable door after the... Well, let's not talk about horses. When
:38:03. > :38:06.this guidance came in last July, Labour said, you will need primary
:38:06. > :38:11.legislation for this, and we will back it. Why has it taken until
:38:11. > :38:16.now? We what the judges to be reasonable and react properly to
:38:16. > :38:24.what Parliament says. But in the intervening months, how many
:38:24. > :38:28.foreign criminals are still here? The courts reacted strongly to what
:38:28. > :38:32.Parliament said. It is different now. We have to do a lot more to
:38:32. > :38:38.get the courts to make sure they do the right thing. The judges know
:38:38. > :38:42.the mood and the mind of Parliament, but they have continued to trump
:38:42. > :38:47.that with this business of a right to a family life. Parliament made
:38:47. > :38:51.its views clear. Both the big political parties agreed that this
:38:51. > :38:58.was the right direction. Theresa May now wants to enshrine that in
:38:58. > :39:03.legislation. But she was told to do this last July and how she has
:39:03. > :39:07.waited until February to write articles about it. There are lots
:39:07. > :39:12.of things going on. So it is less important than other things going
:39:12. > :39:17.on? No, what we all believed was that it was enough for Parliament
:39:17. > :39:23.to express its strong view, and in the past, courts would have stuck
:39:23. > :39:28.to that. They haven't, so we will legislate quickly. Let's turn to
:39:28. > :39:32.Romanians and Bulgarians. The Daily Mail today says there is a secret
:39:32. > :39:37.Chequers summit planned for Thursday on scroungers and illegal
:39:37. > :39:42.immigrants. The Prime Minister and George Osborne and the chief of
:39:42. > :39:47.staff at Number 10 will be there. A polling guru will be there. I did
:39:47. > :39:50.not see your name. Are you in on this secret meeting? I have already
:39:50. > :39:55.had a meeting with the Prime Minister and a team of people last
:39:55. > :39:59.week about this. I had a separate meeting with the Home Secretary.
:39:59. > :40:05.She, myself, Eric Pickles and others are discussing how to make
:40:05. > :40:08.sure there are no loopholes. What have you come up with? And the
:40:08. > :40:12.benefits, we have a thing called a habitual residency test which will
:40:12. > :40:16.be applied to anybody coming in from Europe or elsewhere. It is the
:40:16. > :40:22.idea that are you genuinely here to be a resident, or are you coming
:40:22. > :40:26.for benefits? My JobCentre staff have a lot of flexibility as to how
:40:26. > :40:31.they apply that. They look at leasing arrangements, the time
:40:31. > :40:36.spent here. This is how the system works at the moment. We are able to
:40:36. > :40:41.be reasonably tight with these people. We are looking at the way
:40:41. > :40:49.we apply some of those benefits, for example, whether or not they
:40:49. > :40:54.are contributory benefits or not. We can look at leasing arrangements
:40:54. > :40:58.and whether it is feasible to look at whether somebody has a leasing
:40:58. > :41:04.arrangement lasting nine months a year, rather than just a matter of
:41:04. > :41:10.months. I believe we will be able to tighten this up. We have a big
:41:11. > :41:15.battle here to do with the European Union. They are already trying to
:41:15. > :41:18.in fact me over the strength of opposition on the big draw
:41:19. > :41:25.residency test. They are saying we don't have the right to any kind of
:41:25. > :41:32.test. So that is a battle. But it is not just us. People like the
:41:32. > :41:37.Dutch and the Scandinavians are on our side. We think we need to
:41:37. > :41:44.tighten up. I think we will be able to make those regulations tougher
:41:44. > :41:48.for people coming in to take advantage of our benefits. We know
:41:48. > :41:52.the Government has not released any figures for the estimates of
:41:52. > :41:57.Romanians and Bulgarians who might come here. It is one thing not to
:41:57. > :42:01.release them, but have they been compiled? Not to my knowledge. I
:42:01. > :42:05.have asked whether there is it any rational figure that can be gained,
:42:05. > :42:09.but the last Government got it so wrong that it shows you that
:42:09. > :42:14.estimating the numbers coming through is difficult. A thing could
:42:14. > :42:18.is pointless trying to estimate it, because we -- the last government
:42:18. > :42:20.thought it would be a few thousand, and we ended up with a couple of
:42:20. > :42:25.million. If you look at where the Romanians have already gone, you
:42:25. > :42:30.get a better picture. The majority of them have settled at the moment
:42:30. > :42:34.in Germany. Ironically, they are also settling in Spain. A nicer
:42:34. > :42:38.weather. The Spanish government is now trying to work with us to
:42:38. > :42:43.tighten that up. The majority are going to Germany and Spain. We want
:42:43. > :42:47.to make sure they can't come here and claim benefits. The last
:42:47. > :42:51.government did not record which migrants coming in were then
:42:51. > :42:55.receiving benefits. We will record that, so we know exactly how many
:42:55. > :43:00.people are here and if they get access to benefits, who they are.
:43:00. > :43:06.Then we can tighten up. Our Rome are potentially more of a problem
:43:06. > :43:10.then Romanian sand Bulgarians? -- Roma? I don't look at any
:43:10. > :43:14.particular category. We just look at people who want to come here and
:43:14. > :43:20.claim benefits without making contributions to the tax bill and
:43:20. > :43:24.National Insurance bill. That is my only criterion. President Sarkozy
:43:24. > :43:29.in France managed to repatriate thousands of Roma. Don't you fancy
:43:29. > :43:33.that? I am not President Sarkozy. My view is simple, that we make
:43:33. > :43:39.sure our door is shut to those who want to claim benefits, and open to
:43:39. > :43:44.those who want to contribute and make this economy strong. There are
:43:45. > :43:49.good economic reasons for some migration. It is important to
:43:49. > :43:53.approach this on a wider range. The Home Secretary has already cut net
:43:53. > :43:57.migration by a quarter. We have begun to get a grip on what was a
:43:57. > :44:02.system completely out of control under the last government. I would
:44:02. > :44:09.not pick on individual groups. you will make sure the only people
:44:09. > :44:14.who are here are those who should be here. What about what they can
:44:14. > :44:18.claim and what they can send back home? David Blunkett, former Home
:44:18. > :44:22.Secretary, thinks it is crackers that taxpayers are funding child
:44:22. > :44:26.benefit for children who don't even live in this country. Are you going
:44:26. > :44:32.to stop that? I am very fond of David Blunkett, and I love it when
:44:32. > :44:37.he expands about these things when he sat for 13 years and did nothing.
:44:37. > :44:43.Labour criticised us, but they did nothing to cut net migration.
:44:43. > :44:49.benefit? Under the European free movement rules, if an individual
:44:49. > :44:53.comes to work in another member state, the child provisions for
:44:53. > :44:57.that state are then netted out against what they would receive in
:44:57. > :45:02.their own country, and if it is a higher figure, the net figure is
:45:02. > :45:09.then transferred across to their family in that country. Do I agree
:45:09. > :45:12.with that? Absolutely not. But we will have to change that by
:45:12. > :45:16.speaking to the commission to saying it is absurd that people
:45:16. > :45:22.come over simply to attract a benefit which is higher than theirs.
:45:22. > :45:26.There is a big issue for us for countries that have good support
:45:26. > :45:36.for children, like we and Germany do, we want to discuss with them
:45:36. > :45:40.
:45:40. > :45:44.about how we can change that. The Prime Minister is strong on
:45:44. > :45:51.this. But this is what we inherited on a Labour Government who let the
:45:51. > :45:56.fld gates open. Turning to the -- flood gates open.
:45:56. > :46:01.Turning to the attitude you this I this may betray of the British
:46:01. > :46:04.Government's view of Romanians. The leaders in Romania say - look, we
:46:04. > :46:09.are European citizens and wonder why they are being singled out?
:46:09. > :46:12.They are not actually being singled out. This rule and changes we make
:46:12. > :46:16.to our habitual residency tests would apply to everybody. This is a
:46:16. > :46:20.process of saying - look, people shouldn't use the free movement
:46:20. > :46:22.rule to travel around looking for the best benefit they can get.
:46:22. > :46:26.That's the critical bit the Commission has to understand, which
:46:26. > :46:32.is why if you asked me the question about the roamia, I don't see it
:46:32. > :46:35.like that. I see it on the basis that Social Security and welfare
:46:35. > :46:41.has never been in the providence of the European Union and now they are
:46:41. > :46:46.trying to reach in and make sure they can take control and we should
:46:46. > :46:50.say no, it is set by national governments. Have you considered
:46:50. > :46:53.removing Britain from the Free Movement Directive? No. Because we
:46:53. > :46:57.are beneficiaries between British people go to work abroad. It is
:46:57. > :47:01.about getting the balance right. We want people to be able to trfl to
:47:01. > :47:06.get work but not benefits. -- to travel to get work.
:47:06. > :47:09.It is locking the door to benefits. Most people. I suspect most Germans
:47:09. > :47:12.and Swedes and Danes would nod their heads in agreement when I say
:47:12. > :47:16.that, that's what we get from their governments. They are all in
:47:16. > :47:21.agreement something needs to change. I want to move on to benefits, in
:47:21. > :47:27.terms of the famous "bedroom tax." There is no such thing as a bedroom
:47:27. > :47:31.tax. I know you don't like that. is none sense. There is no bedroom
:47:31. > :47:37.tax. Your department has confirmed to the Sunday People that some
:47:37. > :47:41.pensioners - the story has been about people at working age - but
:47:41. > :47:48.some pensioners will be hit by the bedroom tax, whose name you don't
:47:48. > :47:53.like. Not existing claimants but new claimants. Is that true?
:47:53. > :47:56.They have asked us a hypothetical question and got a hypothetical
:47:56. > :47:59.answer. This is about under- occupancy. Let's be clear about
:47:59. > :48:02.that. For years the Government did nothing about this simple fact
:48:02. > :48:07.which is that we have in social sector housing a very large number
:48:07. > :48:11.of people, in houses, where they have many more bedrooms than they
:48:11. > :48:15.actually need, something like 1 million spare bedrooms are sitting
:48:15. > :48:21.narned social housing, meanwhile there are over 250,000 people on
:48:21. > :48:24.over-crowding and a million people in the waiting list. The last
:48:24. > :48:29.Government let housing building fall to the lowest level since
:48:29. > :48:34.1920s. We inherited a bill that doubled from �11 billion to �20
:48:34. > :48:38.billion set to rise to �25 billion a year. I've said what we want is
:48:38. > :48:42.those who are under-occupying their properties, we need to help them to
:48:42. > :48:46.be able to move to property that they would occupy... You mean force
:48:46. > :48:49.them. We are saying to them - look, you are stay where you are.
:48:50. > :48:54.cough up. But if you do, you have to pay more. We know you are poor,
:48:54. > :48:57.but pay more. No, wait a minute. Exactly the same people with the
:48:57. > :49:00.same criteria who rent in the private sector under housing
:49:00. > :49:04.benefit are not allowed to have extra bedrooms. They have never
:49:04. > :49:08.been. They are only paid in the private sector for the number of
:49:08. > :49:11.bedrooms they occupy. The point of social house something to help them.
:49:11. > :49:14.That's what we do. All we are saying is people who work on
:49:14. > :49:18.marginal income who don't receive housing benefit, those who are in
:49:18. > :49:22.the private rented sector, they know very well that you occupy a
:49:23. > :49:26.house that you can fit into because, look, the tax payer is paying about
:49:27. > :49:29.�900 per household to help people stay in social housing. Tell me
:49:29. > :49:33.about pensioners. The point about the pensioners is they are not
:49:33. > :49:37.included in this. No pensioner is going to be included in this.
:49:37. > :49:40.Existing. Exactly. Existing pensioners and going forward where
:49:40. > :49:44.somebody is in work, where there is a pensioner who, for example, is
:49:44. > :49:47.not retired and is working and another one that it is, where
:49:47. > :49:51.somebody is in receipt of the means-tested pension, the pension
:49:51. > :49:53.guarantee, they won't be included either. The reality is that they
:49:53. > :50:00.are looking at Universial Credit further down the road and they have
:50:00. > :50:03.asked a specific question about that and yet to set finally what we
:50:03. > :50:07.do with that group. It is not our intention that pensioners in anyway
:50:07. > :50:10.will suffer under this. It is not about punishing people, it is about
:50:10. > :50:15.trying to reallocate the housing so people live in a home they occupy
:50:15. > :50:18.and others who are overcrowded, of which there are a million on the
:50:18. > :50:22.waiting list, a quarter of a million looking for homes where
:50:22. > :50:26.they can have extra rooms and we have a million spare bedrooms
:50:26. > :50:29.kicking around. It is not punishing. It is about getting the balance
:50:29. > :50:32.right. Councils are already beginning to sort this out.
:50:32. > :50:36.started talking about judges in another context. The Appeal Court
:50:36. > :50:41.gave the Government a bit of a kicking this week. What do you
:50:41. > :50:44.think of the judges, on Poundland? The High Court upheld all of our
:50:44. > :50:48.position first time around, the Appeal Court came in - and the
:50:48. > :50:51.important thing to know is what they didn't do. The meem went to
:50:51. > :50:55.appeal, this woman particularly, they said it is against her human
:50:55. > :50:59.rights to be told in a work experience programme that she
:50:59. > :51:03.should work only paid by her benefit, that this is something
:51:03. > :51:08.against her human rights. The court said rubbish. Let's talk about what
:51:08. > :51:10.they did say. They said the regulations were set too wide and
:51:10. > :51:14.weren't specific enough. The High Court said they were. They have
:51:14. > :51:18.said they weren't. I have already put emergency regulations down.
:51:18. > :51:24.That's ended it. I am not going to give way on this. Clierly tell you
:51:24. > :51:28.this: people who -- I clearly tell you this: people who think it is
:51:28. > :51:31.right to take benefit and do nothing for it, those days are over.
:51:31. > :51:35.That's not what happened in the case of Kate Riley She volunteered
:51:35. > :51:39.for a work experience programme which many young people want to do.
:51:39. > :51:42.And then decided that actually didn't want to do it any more. It
:51:42. > :51:48.was made pretty clear at the time that they would suffer a withdrawal
:51:48. > :51:52.of benefit if they didn't do what was asked. Gl Kate Riley has a
:51:52. > :51:56.degree in geology. She was doing voluntary work in a museum. Then
:51:56. > :52:00.she's told - you must go and stack shelves in Poundland. She wasn't
:52:00. > :52:03.told that at all. What happened was work experience - let me explain
:52:03. > :52:07.what work experience. When I came in, I was asked by thousands of
:52:07. > :52:11.kids up and down the country, who said - we can't get jobs because
:52:11. > :52:15.the first thing they ask us for, what experience do you have? We
:52:15. > :52:18.can't get the experience if we don't have the job. We allowed
:52:18. > :52:21.people on benefits to have two months in a company work experience,
:52:21. > :52:25.just working, doing what other people can do. They can put this
:52:26. > :52:30.that on their CV it. Has been so successful that over half of those
:52:30. > :52:34.kids have left benefits. The most successful programme we have got.
:52:34. > :52:37.But we said - wupbgz you commit to doing that work, because -- once
:52:37. > :52:40.you commit. Because companies have to make arrangements around it, if
:52:41. > :52:44.you don't, you may suffer a benefit withdrawal because you have messed
:52:44. > :52:47.them around and they'll suffer as a. Are you it is a point that anybody
:52:47. > :52:52.out there listening will no. You have to learn early if you commit
:52:52. > :52:56.to something you stay by and do it. I understand she said she wasn't
:52:56. > :53:00.paid. She was paid Jobseeker's Allowance by the tax payer to do
:53:00. > :53:03.this. Most young people love this programme. I'm sorry, there is a
:53:03. > :53:10.group of people out there that think they are too good for this
:53:10. > :53:15.kind of stuff. Terry Leey started his life stacking shelves. Next
:53:15. > :53:21.time people go in, and say - these smart people think they are too
:53:21. > :53:24.good for this. When they can't find their food on the shelves, who was
:53:24. > :53:29.more important, the geologist or the people stacking shelves? It may
:53:29. > :53:31.have been cleared off the shelves. Now Sian has the headlines.
:53:31. > :53:35.The Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, has supported
:53:35. > :53:40.the Home Secretary's plans for new laws to stop foreign criminals
:53:40. > :53:42.avoid deg pourtion by claiming the rights to a family life. --
:53:42. > :53:46.deportation. Mr Duncan Smith said courts too
:53:46. > :53:49.often allowed family life to trump the view clearly expressed by
:53:49. > :53:53.Parliament that foreign criminals should be deported. He said judges
:53:53. > :53:57.knew very well the mood and mind of Parliament and should be reasonable
:53:57. > :54:00.and react properly. Kate and Gerry McCann have
:54:00. > :54:05.criticised Conservative proposals to set up a new regulatory body for
:54:05. > :54:10.the press, backed by a Rhyl charter, rather than the legal underpining
:54:10. > :54:13.called for by Lord Justice Leveson at the end of his inquiry into
:54:13. > :54:17.press standards. Gerry McCann told this programme that the press had
:54:17. > :54:21.lost any entitlement to self- regulation. He said Lord Leveson's
:54:21. > :54:26.recommendations were the minimum that he could accept to safeguard
:54:26. > :54:31.the public. Next news is on BBC One at 12.00pm.
:54:31. > :54:35.First a look at what is coming up after this show.
:54:35. > :54:39.7 Join us live when after the Pope's regular isnaig we will ask -
:54:39. > :54:46.is it too late to renew the Catholic Church -- resignation.
:54:46. > :54:51.The human rights defender says the crisis of child abuse is
:54:51. > :55:01.insurmountable and we need ten new commandments. A philosopher
:55:01. > :55:02.
:55:02. > :55:04.explains his manifesto on how to be Now, it's more than 20 years since
:55:04. > :55:10.Sinead O'Connor shot to international fame with the hit
:55:10. > :55:17.song, Nothing Compares 2 U. #Ing in, I saiding in can take away
:55:17. > :55:21.these blues -- nothing compares # Nothing chairings to you... # The
:55:21. > :55:23.single went platinum in the UK and the song and its video became a
:55:24. > :55:26.classic. In the intervening years, Sinead O'Connor has frequently been
:55:26. > :55:28.in the headlines, condemning the Catholic Church in Ireland for its
:55:29. > :55:31.response to child sex abuse revelations. She's also been
:55:31. > :55:33.searingly honest about her own difficult childhood, and later
:55:33. > :55:40.mental health problems. But she's carried on recording and performing,
:55:40. > :55:47.and her latest album, How About I Be Me, And You Be You? Has been
:55:47. > :55:52.critically acclaimed. Sinead is here. Every interview I see with
:55:52. > :55:58.you drags up all of your past. let's not. Tell me how things are
:55:58. > :56:02.now? Good, really God. I'm great. Wonderful, fantastic, the greatest.
:56:03. > :56:05.Are you trying to convince me or yourself? Nobody. I'm making idle
:56:05. > :56:09.conversation until you ask me something interesting. We have a
:56:09. > :56:15.conversation. The album is very you. There is one wildly optimistic
:56:15. > :56:20.track, which I think is the one we are going to hear. I do believe it
:56:20. > :56:26.might be something more. There may be more than one optimistic track
:56:26. > :56:30.on there. I'm not sure. I would characterise it as fantastically
:56:30. > :56:36.brilliant. The best album anyone ever made, ever. What are we going
:56:36. > :56:40.to hear? You mean musically? Yes. Yes. We will be back in second to
:56:40. > :56:50.hear it. That was the GREATst interview I have ever done.
:56:50. > :56:51.
:56:51. > :56:56.Next week my colleague, Jeremy Vine will be here with Paloma Faith.
:56:56. > :57:06.We'll leave you with Sinead O'Connor and her new single. Gl
:57:06. > :57:12.
:57:12. > :57:19.# Going to put my pink dress on and do it up real tight
:57:19. > :57:22.# I'm going to put some eyeliner on # I'm going to go down to the
:57:22. > :57:32.church # I'm going to marry my love
:57:32. > :57:36.
:57:36. > :57:43.# We'll be happy for all time # He's got big brown eyes
:57:43. > :57:53.# I can't believe he's mine # Does he know his love is srous
:57:53. > :58:12.
:58:12. > :58:17.# -- serious I will, I will I will I do
:58:17. > :58:23.# Going to put my pink dress on # And do my hair up tight
:58:23. > :58:30.# I'm going to put eye shadow on # It's going to look real nice
:58:30. > :58:40.# I'm going down to the Church # Going to go for a drive
:58:40. > :58:42.
:58:42. > :58:46.# I'm going to marry my love # We'll be happy for all time