05/05/2013

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:00:41. > :00:49.Good morning. Apparently we are heading into the hottest day of the

:00:49. > :00:52.year. Maybe we had it last week when a UKIP power surge caused the

:00:52. > :00:58.Conservative and Liberal Democrat council seats to meltdown. Lots of

:00:58. > :01:02.that in the Sunday papers. We are joined by Labour MP David Lammy and

:01:02. > :01:09.director of campaign group Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti. If you are Nigel

:01:09. > :01:12.Farage, you pour yourself a pint of warm beer. If you are a cabinet

:01:12. > :01:17.minister like Defence Secretary Philip Hammond, what you do? He has

:01:17. > :01:22.a busy in trained in his department. We will also ask him about Syria

:01:22. > :01:27.and Afghanistan. Things would not be complete without Nigel Farage.

:01:27. > :01:33.He was painted as a clown, he is now a serious contender. But for

:01:33. > :01:38.what exactly? After Jimmy Savile came Stuart Hall. Both committed

:01:38. > :01:43.sexual attacks inside the BBC, it seems. Is the organisation damaged

:01:43. > :01:50.again? I will ask the chairman of the BBC Trust about trust in the

:01:50. > :01:54.BBC and his effort to restore it. And two actresses, one character.

:01:54. > :01:59.We will hear from Zoe Wanamaker and Samantha Bond about playing

:01:59. > :02:09.different aspects of the same person in a new production. All

:02:09. > :02:09.

:02:09. > :02:15.that and Nigel Kennedy, also. The unconventional violinist is here

:02:15. > :02:21.with a track from his new album in which Bach meets Brubeck and other

:02:21. > :02:26.jazz greats. First, the morning headlines.

:02:26. > :02:30.A Conservative MP has been released on bail after being arrested on

:02:30. > :02:35.suspicion of rape and sexual assault. Nigel Evans is a deputy

:02:35. > :02:39.speaker of the House of Commons. It is understood he was questioned

:02:39. > :02:45.about alleged attacks on two men in their twenties. The Prime Minister

:02:45. > :02:50.was informed. Nigel Evans was arrested by police in Lancashire

:02:50. > :02:55.yesterday. Last night they confirmed he was released on bail.

:02:55. > :03:05.So far he has not commented. The police did not name him. In a

:03:05. > :03:12.

:03:12. > :03:19.police did not name him. In a The alleged victims are said to be

:03:19. > :03:22.in their twenties. He was elected in 1992. He was born in Swansea and

:03:22. > :03:27.served as shadow Welsh secretary when the Conservatives were in

:03:27. > :03:32.opposition. He is regarded as opposition. He is regarded as

:03:32. > :03:36.energetic by colleagues. We have to wait to see what the specific

:03:36. > :03:40.questions being raised the mat two. I know him extremely well over many

:03:40. > :03:46.I know him extremely well over many I know him extremely well over many

:03:46. > :03:51.years. I am very deeply concerned - - amount to. He was elected as

:03:51. > :03:57.deputy speaker in 2010. In the same year came a -- in the Senate, he

:03:57. > :04:03.came out as gay, saying he did not want to lie -- in the same year.

:04:04. > :04:07.State media in Syria said Israeli missiles had hit a scientific

:04:07. > :04:13.research centre in Damascus. The centre was a target of an Israeli

:04:13. > :04:16.strike in January. Big explosions have been heard and footage shows a

:04:16. > :04:21.ball of fire. It is not yet possible to confirm exactly what

:04:21. > :04:24.happened. Two days ago Israeli forces bombed what was said to be a

:04:24. > :04:27.convoy of missiles in Syria heading for a Lebanese militant group

:04:27. > :04:31.Hezbollah. The Foreign Secretary William Hague

:04:31. > :04:36.has said that the local election results do not mean the

:04:36. > :04:41.Conservative Party needs a drastic change of course. He responded to

:04:41. > :04:47.these show of support for the UK Independence Party, which averaged

:04:47. > :04:50.one quarter of the vote in the wards it contested. Mr Hague said

:04:51. > :04:55.that the Conservatives understand the concerns of voters who worry

:04:55. > :05:01.about immigration, welfare and the cost of living.

:05:01. > :05:07.A survey by Which? Suggests an one in five households have to borrow

:05:07. > :05:11.or use savings to cover the cost of their food shopping. Which? Said

:05:11. > :05:15.the findings were based on interviews of 2000 people and a

:05:15. > :05:19.shocking and showed that many households are stretched to a

:05:19. > :05:25.financial breaking-point. That is all for me, I will be back

:05:25. > :05:30.just before 10am. We can look at the front pages

:05:30. > :05:35.today. Joining me to review the papers, David Lammy and Shami

:05:35. > :05:40.Chakrabarti. We heard Nigel Evans mentioned in the Bulletin, on the

:05:40. > :05:50.front page of the Observer newspaper. Budget plans in the

:05:50. > :05:51.

:05:51. > :06:01.Independent newspaper. Again, the Deputy Speaker. A related story to

:06:01. > :06:02.

:06:02. > :06:12.Madeleine McCann in the Daily Express. UK Independence Party as

:06:12. > :06:13.

:06:13. > :06:23.saying they would do a deal with Boris. Again, the Nigel Evans story.

:06:23. > :06:23.

:06:24. > :06:29.Michael Jackson. Where do we start? We have to start with the Deputy

:06:30. > :06:37.Speaker. He is in all the papers. In the Mail on Sunday we seek

:06:37. > :06:41.detailed photographs of the police investigation at his home. -- we

:06:41. > :06:47.see photographs. Police have been working closely with various

:06:47. > :06:51.newspapers on this. You think the police might have called the

:06:51. > :06:55.newspapers in so they could photograph? I do not know. This is

:06:55. > :07:00.as it happened. I would remind people in this country we arrest

:07:00. > :07:08.people on suspicion. We charge them when we have evidence to charge

:07:08. > :07:13.them. We convict them when we are sure. We need to remember that.

:07:13. > :07:18.There is significant interest in the rest of the Deputy Speaker. He

:07:18. > :07:22.is a significant figure in public life. He is innocent until proved

:07:22. > :07:28.guilty. He has not been charged. Stories are everywhere, but we

:07:28. > :07:33.could do well to remember that. volume of material on the front

:07:33. > :07:39.pages. I have the Independent newspaper which has a balance story.

:07:39. > :07:47.It is a developing story. It is unusual to see a time line like

:07:47. > :07:53.this as it is happening. It will be shocking and Westminster. He is a

:07:53. > :07:58.popular MP a cross the House of Commons. We do not know the details.

:07:58. > :08:03.It is too early. Innocent until proven guilty, particularly for

:08:03. > :08:12.such a serious offence. The he can remain as Deputy Speaker while he

:08:12. > :08:22.is on bail? It is too soon to tell. That would be a matter for him, his

:08:22. > :08:24.

:08:24. > :08:29.local party. We gather he is making a statement this morning. Following

:08:29. > :08:34.on from that, we have a debate about how much the police should

:08:35. > :08:44.co-operate with journalists when somebody has been arrested. I have

:08:45. > :08:46.

:08:46. > :08:50.said some things about this on behalf of Liberty. There is a story

:08:50. > :08:59.suggesting I am about to make an attack on the new press laws. What

:08:59. > :09:07.I have done is to talk about the need for discretion when deciding

:09:07. > :09:09.what to say about arresting suspects. Lord Justice Leveson did

:09:09. > :09:15.not call for a blanket ban on confirming the names of people

:09:15. > :09:23.arrested. There are times when it is important, there is an

:09:23. > :09:33.opportunity for witnesses and other victims to come forward. It seems

:09:33. > :09:34.

:09:34. > :09:44.as if the Leveson idea is in real trouble. I am not sure of that.

:09:44. > :09:52.There are two Press charters. One was advanced by politicians, the

:09:52. > :09:57.other by the press themselves. They are not a world apart. We will look

:09:57. > :10:02.closely at the detail of both in the weeks ahead. Whether I am set

:10:02. > :10:11.to make an attack, and let you find, whether I am capable of being

:10:11. > :10:19.electrifying on a Sunday morning! It is coming. Did journalists speak

:10:19. > :10:23.to you? They have spoken to my colleagues. The issue is you cannot

:10:23. > :10:29.have blanket policies on something as important as when the police

:10:29. > :10:37.confirm the names of people arrested. We have to talk about the

:10:37. > :10:44.man sitting in the studio. Independence Party are all over the

:10:44. > :10:49.papers. In the Observer newspaper, it breaks down who supported them.

:10:49. > :10:56.They were male, in the south-east and the Midlands, working class.

:10:56. > :11:00.Huge consequences for the Conservatives. Strong suggestions

:11:00. > :11:06.from right-leaning newspapers that David Cameron will be moving to the

:11:06. > :11:12.right to gather that ground. Those of us who follow politics recognise

:11:12. > :11:16.that you can lose the centre ground when you react in this way.

:11:16. > :11:21.Questions for your party, as well. You are supposed to be the

:11:21. > :11:26.opposition and they are doing a good job of that. They are not

:11:26. > :11:32.taking many votes from us. Probably, we should be happy we are gaining

:11:32. > :11:36.seats in places such as Harlow and Stevenage and those areas of the

:11:36. > :11:44.country where we cannot come to power unless we Pickup and win the

:11:44. > :11:50.hearts and minds of people in Middle England. 29%. We could not

:11:50. > :11:55.find you as low as that in all the years of opposition. Over tea years

:11:55. > :12:00.since the last election. We have a way to go -- it is over two years.

:12:00. > :12:09.We have European elections. We have London. I suspect we will do better

:12:09. > :12:14.then. It is a slow advance to victory. This UK Independence Party

:12:14. > :12:18.phenomenon is more complex. I have met Nigel Farage many times,

:12:18. > :12:23.including reviewing the papers on this programme. The idea that you

:12:23. > :12:29.appeal to those who voted for UK Independence Party by being nasty

:12:29. > :12:34.to foreigners and authoritarian on law and order is simplistic. I have

:12:34. > :12:39.sat with him on debating programmes when he has sat with me against

:12:39. > :12:44.identity cards and locking up people without trial. The Telegraph

:12:44. > :12:49.today suggests you bring back those voters by coming out of human

:12:49. > :12:53.rights laws. Maybe this should be put to Nigel Farage now he has had

:12:53. > :13:01.the success. He can perhaps answer for himself and his party as to how

:13:01. > :13:06.they feel about it. On taxation, important domestic issues such as

:13:06. > :13:16.same-sex marriage, on many issues, UK Independence Party will come

:13:16. > :13:19.

:13:19. > :13:28.under scrutiny. Nigel Farage thought that UKIP is more than --

:13:28. > :13:32.is more a mindset than a set of policies. We have had charismatic

:13:32. > :13:40.outsiders who can be attracted. But there is a time when you have to

:13:40. > :13:50.her policies. Human rights related. William Hague is saying we have to

:13:50. > :13:51.

:13:51. > :14:00.get the last citizen back from Guantanamo. President Obama spoke

:14:00. > :14:05.out against it a few days ago. It is scandalous. 11 years. No justice.

:14:05. > :14:12.No proper trial. No proper conviction. What are we going to do

:14:12. > :14:19.about it? You have something on for speeding. And all kinds of

:14:19. > :14:24.brutality. The former military prosecutor. An officer he was

:14:24. > :14:32.posted there. He is saying it must be closed down. The President has

:14:32. > :14:39.said this would stop our government has said this. -- the President has

:14:39. > :14:46.said this. I thought President Obama sign something publicly.

:14:46. > :14:51.set himself a time limit. He has breached the time limit. Presumably

:14:51. > :14:56.he had other political priorities. There are always other political

:14:56. > :15:01.priorities, particularly in a recession, that seemed to be higher

:15:01. > :15:09.than human rights. He recognises that it is making the United States

:15:09. > :15:16.and its allies less safe. It is such a recruiting ground for

:15:16. > :15:22.terrorism. This is about the Human Rights Act. Two people who

:15:22. > :15:26.ransacked shops. They frightened and intimidated people during the

:15:27. > :15:33.riots. They cannot be deported, despite the fact they are not

:15:33. > :15:39.British nationals, because of the Human Rights Act. It is the right

:15:39. > :15:48.to family life. They will have established they have strong links.

:15:48. > :15:53.Therefore they should not go back in this case to Zimbabwe. There was

:15:53. > :15:59.rioting in your constituency. the shopkeepers and people who had

:15:59. > :16:03.their homes burned down, it is difficult. We are laying a lot at

:16:03. > :16:08.the Human Rights Act, but where is the balance? With these stories,

:16:08. > :16:13.you never get the whole story in a newspaper report about the small

:16:13. > :16:17.number of people who cannot be deported. There is a presumption

:16:17. > :16:21.when you have committed a serious crime and you are a foreign

:16:21. > :16:26.national, you get deported. Many people do every week. A small

:16:26. > :16:36.number cannot be deported. It is not safe to go home, they have been

:16:36. > :16:40.

:16:40. > :16:47.here so long. Keira Knightley.Nice to have something happy for a

:16:47. > :16:57.change. She is in all the papers. She is a fantastic actress. She has

:16:57. > :17:08.

:17:08. > :17:12.had an understated wedding weekend? John Hammond can tell us.

:17:12. > :17:17.For the most part, but there are some ceptions, so we are not all

:17:17. > :17:20.going to enjoy it, but the vast majority will have a pleasant day

:17:20. > :17:30.today and tomorrow will be even warmer. I mentioned the exceptions.

:17:30. > :17:32.

:17:32. > :17:37.They are across the west of Scotland in particular. The best of the sun

:17:37. > :17:43.is further south and east. A fine day, with light winds and

:17:43. > :17:47.temperature widely up into the mid-teens to high teens. Even across

:17:47. > :17:51.parts of Lancashire and Cumbria, things will pick up. Northern

:17:51. > :17:57.Ireland will see brightness. Eastern Scotland will see warm sun, but it's

:17:58. > :18:02.the west that stays rather cloudy with dampness and cooler. More of

:18:02. > :18:06.the same on Monday. Most areas will be dry and a lot of sunshine across

:18:06. > :18:12.England and Wales. Temperatures are set to soar. You can see the chart

:18:12. > :18:16.turning yellow. It will turn orange indicating highs of 20. That is

:18:16. > :18:20.conservative. 23 or 24. Possibly the warmest day of the year so far.

:18:20. > :18:24.Enjoy, it's not going to last. The rest of the week, we go back down to

:18:24. > :18:28.Earth with a bang. Cooler and breezier. Welcome rain for

:18:28. > :18:31.gardeners. It's been a prolonged dry gardeners. It's been a prolonged dry

:18:32. > :18:40.spell. Thank you. Now we know that another of the BBC's household

:18:41. > :18:49.names, Stuart Hall, is serious of sexual -- guilty of serious sexual

:18:49. > :18:53.crimes. Again, the question is asked just as it was with Jimmy Savile,

:18:53. > :18:57.does the BBC take responsibility or turn a blind eye? These are pressing

:18:57. > :19:00.matters for Lord Patten who went through the whole crisis and has now

:19:00. > :19:07.hit two years in the job and he joins us now. Good morning to you.

:19:07. > :19:11.Hello. This does bring back all the issues that came up, doesn't it?

:19:11. > :19:16.Yeah. Dame Janet Smith, the judge who is looking at the background to

:19:16. > :19:23.this, whether the BBC was complicit, turned a blind eye, knew what was

:19:23. > :19:27.going on and didn't do anything, I hope that will embarrass what is

:19:27. > :19:32.happening with Stuart Hall as well. They are awful, awful allegations

:19:32. > :19:36.and stories and of course we look back on the 60s and 70s and we know

:19:36. > :19:39.that way of treating women and employees is something that was

:19:39. > :19:45.thank God, put an end to by feminism, which people used to sneer

:19:45. > :19:50.about. A producer in Manchester in the 60s and 70s, said Hall had a

:19:50. > :19:54.room set aside at the BBC and others were helping get women into it.

:19:54. > :19:58.Well, if that's true, it's appalling and it's exactly the sort of thing

:19:58. > :20:03.that Janet Smith will be investigating. Is she up to that

:20:03. > :20:07.job? Yes, but if she needs any more resources, if we need to do any

:20:08. > :20:14.more, we will of course, because one thing which we have shown already

:20:14. > :20:20.with Nick Pollard's report and Diana Roast's report is we want to get to

:20:20. > :20:25.grips with this awful business. the past we have left it to the

:20:25. > :20:32.police and ITV, haven't we? Were there particular problems with the

:20:32. > :20:36.Saville case, which is why we had that inquiry in what went wrong with

:20:36. > :20:42.Newsnight. What he demonstrated is while it was a terrible mistake not

:20:42. > :20:48.to carry a report on him, it wasn't a result of trying to cover up the

:20:49. > :20:53.co-operate reputation of the BBC. corporate reputation of the BBC. Do

:20:53. > :20:59.you think there has been a malaise in the BBC? We need to get a grip on

:20:59. > :21:08.current affairs in particular. We do some wonderful current affairs

:21:08. > :21:13.investigating and journalists like Peter Taylor, like John Weir and

:21:13. > :21:23.Jane Colvin. We have to make sure we continue to do that, but do so in a

:21:23. > :21:28.way which is balanced and fair. whole Jamie Saville and Hall story,

:21:29. > :21:34.are you ready for more to come out? Plainly, there was something about

:21:34. > :21:41.the celebrity culture in the past which meant that people were

:21:41. > :21:46.prepared apparently to turn a blind eye to behaviour which wasn't

:21:46. > :21:50.excentric and thoroughly unpleasant. This is a victim of Hall, I would go

:21:50. > :21:55.so far as to say they were helped in their abuse by other BBC staff,

:21:55. > :21:58.because they must have known. that was the Kay Andijanet Smith is

:21:58. > :22:03.looking at it, then we want to see the evidence and get it out in

:22:03. > :22:08.public and deal with it in this way. The Stuart Hall victims want a

:22:09. > :22:14.separate inquiry? Well, I think to set up a new inquiry, when there's

:22:14. > :22:17.already one which is is extremely well resourced operating, would

:22:17. > :22:22.probably delay arriving at the truth, which is presumably what they

:22:22. > :22:26.want. It's not purpose-built for Stuart Hall, is it? No, but it's

:22:26. > :22:29.built for what one wants to investigate, which is the culture

:22:29. > :22:33.which allowed this to happen. If we need to do more, we will and at the

:22:33. > :22:37.end of the day, what we have to do is to provide answers which will

:22:37. > :22:47.satisfy people that we have been prepared to deal with our own dirty

:22:47. > :22:50.washing. Will the BBC be liable for compensation in the case? I believe

:22:50. > :22:54.so, but it will be for the courts. Have you thought about how much?

:22:54. > :22:57.would be incredible to do that, because what needs to happen is we

:22:57. > :23:00.immediate to get a grip on what actually happened and we need, of

:23:00. > :23:08.course, in the meantime, to co-operate fully with the police.

:23:08. > :23:14.It's a different case to the Savile case because the main person who is

:23:14. > :23:19.alleged to have committed the crimes - the person in the other case is

:23:19. > :23:24.actually alive. Part of the damage was caused by the DG's first

:23:24. > :23:27.response to all of this and he went after 54 days and you appointed him.

:23:27. > :23:33.Do you at some point have to take your only responsibility for that?

:23:33. > :23:39.Well, we have to take responsibility as a Trust for appointing George

:23:39. > :23:44.enterenter. -- George Entwhistle. I'm chairman, so we appointed

:23:44. > :23:49.unanimously the person we thought was best for the job and ironically,

:23:49. > :23:53.the very issues that he had argued he wanted to tackle when he became

:23:53. > :23:58.DG were the issues that actually pulled him down, so we then

:23:58. > :24:02.appointed a new Director General within about 12 days. We were

:24:02. > :24:07.commended for acting swiftly and decisively and I very much hope that

:24:07. > :24:12.the new DG, who is an outstanding man, will continue to put the BBC

:24:12. > :24:16.back on an even keel, what is surprising, this isn't grounds for

:24:16. > :24:21.smugness or complacency, but the figures for trust in the BBC have

:24:21. > :24:27.bounced back. Up until we got the Stuart Hall story, that's true. You

:24:27. > :24:29.are being attacked again in public by John Whittingdale who heads the

:24:29. > :24:33.culture committee, who says you are damaged and looking tired and grey.

:24:33. > :24:39.What to comment on that. It's for other people to say whether I am

:24:39. > :24:43.looking tired and grey. Damaged?I don't think honestly anybody

:24:43. > :24:46.fair-minded could blame me for what happened in the 60s and 70s and 80s,

:24:46. > :24:52.though I'm extremely sad that it did happen. Greg Dyke saying it's time

:24:52. > :24:56.for an early bath? If Greg Dyke was doing an interview on flower

:24:56. > :25:01.arranging he would turn it into an attack on me. It's worth remembering

:25:01. > :25:06.he presided over the BBC at the last big crisis and as a result we have

:25:06. > :25:10.the presence system of governance, which was changed because of the

:25:10. > :25:15.Greg Dyke business. Looking forward, what changes do you want to see in

:25:15. > :25:21.the BBC at the next -- in the next couple of years? I want to see us

:25:21. > :25:26.giving value for money to the licence-fee payer and besting

:25:26. > :25:30.better-quality programmes and the figures for trust, which have come

:25:30. > :25:33.back remarkably, perhaps damaged by the Hall case, continue to grow,

:25:33. > :25:38.because it's important for us to be trusted as a great national

:25:38. > :25:44.institution. You have a new DG. Is that a fresh start now? He's

:25:44. > :25:49.terrific. He's both, as I've said, a sigh of relief and a wind of change.

:25:49. > :25:52.He's a really, really good and creative head of the BBC. He did a

:25:52. > :25:59.brilliant job at the Royal Opera House and he's appointed appointing

:25:59. > :26:04.a very good team. Thank you. We started the week as clowns and

:26:04. > :26:12.fruitcakes, but by the end of it the main parties were queuing up to pay

:26:12. > :26:16.their respects to UKIP and the supporters. They've been warned the

:26:16. > :26:19.flip says side of being taken more seriously is they'll be put under

:26:19. > :26:23.more scrutiny and the details of policies and the aim of the party

:26:23. > :26:27.will be looked at. We are joined by their leader, Nigel Farage. Welcome.

:26:27. > :26:31.Good morning. What is this all about? Is this you trying to win

:26:31. > :26:36.power or just adjust the Conservatives, the course they're

:26:36. > :26:42.on? It's very interesting. People obsess about our effect on the

:26:42. > :26:47.Conservative Party, completing we -- completely ignoring that we knocked

:26:47. > :26:52.the Liberal Democrats out and we picked up more points from Labour

:26:52. > :26:57.Party. We scored 24% in the by-election. Most of the points

:26:57. > :27:01.coming from -- What is it all about and where is it all heading?

:27:01. > :27:04.Changing British politics. We have had enough of three parties that are

:27:04. > :27:08.virtually merging into one. The coalition, the opposition, frankly

:27:08. > :27:12.there are very few serious differences between them. We want

:27:13. > :27:16.our country back from Brussels. That's number one, otherwise we

:27:16. > :27:19.can't govern ourselves and we want to control our borders, because

:27:19. > :27:23.whilst we have no prejudice, immigration is out of control for

:27:23. > :27:27.last ten years. If the Conservatives move into the zones you want them to

:27:27. > :27:30.be in, which is what you've been trying to engineer so far, then it's

:27:30. > :27:33.job done, is it? They'll not do that. We are talking about it this

:27:33. > :27:38.weekend. I know they're talking about it, but they don't mean it and

:27:38. > :27:44.everyone knows that. David Cameron set the course of this coalition

:27:44. > :27:48.government and the own leadership has been pro-EU and open-door

:27:48. > :27:53.immigration and building wind turbines over our green and pleasant

:27:53. > :27:57.land. Had he puts a U-turn, good luck, but don't think we are a press

:27:57. > :28:00.sewer group that will go away, because somebody in Downing Street

:28:00. > :28:04.starts singing the same song. string of Conservative MPs are

:28:04. > :28:08.starting to say, hang on, the EU needs sorting out and immigration,

:28:08. > :28:13.so if you take David Cameron out of the picture and then do you have

:28:13. > :28:17.what you want then? If David Cameron gets removed and I suppose given

:28:17. > :28:20.that we have a European election coming up before the next general

:28:20. > :28:24.election, it's not impossible. If he was removed and somebody else was

:28:24. > :28:27.put in place, who wanted to talk to us and say shall we find an

:28:27. > :28:31.accommodation, we'll consider it. It's not my priority. Mine is to

:28:31. > :28:34.build a new political party and movement in this country that wants

:28:35. > :28:39.to stand up for the interests of ordinary people. You need policies

:28:39. > :28:43.across the piece on potholes for example? We heard some of your

:28:43. > :28:47.candidates. UKIP hasn't previously had much to say on other areas.

:28:48. > :28:50.We'll find out, because we have established the bridges I wanted on

:28:50. > :28:53.County Councils up and down the country and we'll take that

:28:53. > :28:58.seriously. We have to prove to people what we can do in local

:28:58. > :29:03.government. Looking at your 2010 manifesto, just for example, on

:29:03. > :29:05.transport, you called for three new high-speed rail lines. The local

:29:05. > :29:10.elections and you campaign against the only one they're planning on.

:29:10. > :29:16.You went on the march. Quite right. It's slower now from Penzance to

:29:16. > :29:20.Paddington than it was in 1914. So there's a very good argument of

:29:20. > :29:24.upgrading lines and bringing benefit. Not to spend over �40

:29:24. > :29:29.billion to build a line through the countryside that will only benefit

:29:29. > :29:35.rich commuters. You want three new ones and not the one? We don't want

:29:35. > :29:42.H S 2. On tax, the Times looked at your proposals and you want to cut

:29:42. > :29:46.taxes by 90 billion and spend an extra 30. They say it's 120 billion

:29:46. > :29:50.black hole. Complete rubbish. They've taken the view that if we

:29:50. > :29:54.could get rid of NS that would be marvellous for jobs. That would cost

:29:54. > :29:58.50 billion. We say in the document we couldn't do it now. This is all

:29:58. > :30:01.rubbish. What they haven't done is taken into account in 2010 where we

:30:01. > :30:05.set the cuts and savings should come. They haven't done that

:30:05. > :30:09.deliberately. Honestly, if we look at the Labour Party right now, they

:30:09. > :30:13.have no policy at all for the next election. The current Government's

:30:13. > :30:16.figures have failed and we are in 130 billion black hole and we will

:30:16. > :30:26.next year, before the general election, put a fully costed

:30:26. > :30:35.

:30:35. > :30:41.proposal for how to cut taxes and I would net to give money to the

:30:41. > :30:51.European Union and wasting money on foreign aid -- I would not. �60

:30:51. > :30:51.

:30:51. > :30:54.billion in year is spent in this country on quangos. There are

:30:54. > :30:59.people in politics who want to be something and those who want to do

:30:59. > :31:05.something. My priority is to make sure my children grow up in a

:31:05. > :31:10.country they call their own. you getting carried away? You get

:31:10. > :31:16.23% of the vote in local elections but you do not get a single council.

:31:16. > :31:21.You know the problem is magnified with the general election with the

:31:21. > :31:26.first-past-the-post system. I am not getting carried away. You are,

:31:26. > :31:30.saying do I want to be Prime Minister? It is fascinating. We are

:31:30. > :31:36.the party with the broadest appeal across the country. Old Labour

:31:36. > :31:42.voters, rural Tory voters. We are a genuinely national political party.

:31:42. > :31:49.To succeed in Westminster, we have to build from here. Please do not

:31:49. > :31:57.think it is impossible. UKIP is here to stay. Let me ask you if you

:31:57. > :32:04.want to be an MP? I have been a member of the European Parliament

:32:04. > :32:09.which I have enjoyed in many ways. I would not stand in a by-election

:32:09. > :32:15.before next year. 20th June 14 we have the European election. That is

:32:15. > :32:21.the day on which I believe UKIP can cause an earthquake in British

:32:21. > :32:27.politics. I will stand for a seat in 2015. Have you decided which?I

:32:27. > :32:32.will think about it. I have been rather busy doing other things!

:32:32. > :32:38.does sum up the problem for your party that it is a one-man show.

:32:38. > :32:47.do not think it is. The lady who stood for us in the Eastleigh by-

:32:47. > :32:57.election die and James appear to on programmes last week. -- Diane

:32:57. > :32:58.

:32:58. > :33:04.James. Paul Nuttall. He is also popular. He comes from a working-

:33:04. > :33:08.class background, but she does not happen much any more. Encounter is

:33:08. > :33:14.up and down the country, we will have local representatives with a

:33:14. > :33:17.big local media presence. Thanks for joining us.

:33:17. > :33:22.Deception, adultery and betrayal are at the heart of Peter Nichols'

:33:22. > :33:26.Passion Play. It is a vibrant piece of theatre that has been revived to

:33:26. > :33:29.great success and arrives in London's West End this week. It

:33:29. > :33:33.stars two of our finest actresses, Zoe Wanamaker and Samantha Bond, in

:33:33. > :33:38.a strong cast. Passion Play sees one actress playing the other's

:33:38. > :33:44.inner voice, her alter ego. The dramatic effect of this is as

:33:44. > :33:47.striking as is it revealing, but it's also very funny. I asked own

:33:47. > :33:54.stars about the challenge of playing the same character on stage

:33:54. > :34:01.at the same time. And what it has to say about love and marriage.

:34:01. > :34:06.is a fantastic device. This is what makes Peter's work brilliant. Also

:34:06. > :34:13.in day in the Death of Joe Egg. He has this comedic side which makes

:34:13. > :34:18.it funny and amusing. There is the darker edge Peter has.

:34:18. > :34:24.That is want -- that is what men want to hear. Pornography. Violence

:34:24. > :34:29.without bruises. Either you go with her, you stay with me. There is a

:34:29. > :34:35.lot of deceit. Do you play these parts and think, is this what life

:34:35. > :34:41.is really like? It is quite depressing. It is not a depressing

:34:41. > :34:44.play. It deals with a deep and often touching and tragic thing

:34:44. > :34:52.that happens in life. We are talking about marital infidelity.

:34:52. > :34:58.He makes it funny. It suggests you get to 50 and you cannot hold a

:34:58. > :35:06.long relationship. Not necessarily. Passion is not the prerogative of

:35:06. > :35:11.the young. It is a crisis of a 25- year-old marriage, which is not

:35:11. > :35:18.unusual. Any experiences in your lives, the lives of others, where

:35:18. > :35:27.you think I have done that. Not in our personal lines, but we have

:35:27. > :35:31.seen friends go through it. -- lives. Friends will come to see it

:35:31. > :35:38.and maybe something in their past they have not told you is played

:35:38. > :35:46.out on the stage. It will be uncomfortable for some people.

:35:46. > :35:51.The you can volunteer information about your life. There is the

:35:51. > :35:56.extraordinary character of the young widow. She strikes fear and

:35:56. > :36:01.chaos into the hearts of those around her. Is she a real-life sort

:36:01. > :36:08.of person? People around you are young, determined to break up or to

:36:08. > :36:13.marriages? I do not know about the determination. I think it is based

:36:13. > :36:19.on a certain amount of reality. had a girlfriend like her in her

:36:19. > :36:29.twenties. She is now happily married. Let me ask you about other

:36:29. > :36:31.

:36:31. > :36:35.projects. Ethel Wodehouse. A complex story. PG Wodehouse ends up

:36:35. > :36:41.on the radio support in Germany by accident almost in the Second World

:36:41. > :36:50.War. How does she fit into that? She adored him. The feeling was

:36:50. > :36:55.mutual. She was outspoken. How could you be so bloody stupid?

:36:55. > :36:59.find it all too easy to be stupid, I am afraid. Do not give me that

:37:00. > :37:05.line again. I am in love with you for some peculiar reason and you

:37:05. > :37:11.are not stupid. You are a clever man who is pretending to be stupid.

:37:11. > :37:19.They were very much in love. The period the writer wrote about was

:37:19. > :37:25.his exile, he was interned in Germany and inadvertently got

:37:25. > :37:31.himself on to the radio. He started writing slightly ironic, and

:37:31. > :37:41.telling ironic stories, of what life was like in the camp. It

:37:41. > :37:47.

:37:47. > :37:51.caused anger and upset. Can I ask you about Downton. It was suggested

:37:51. > :37:58.you left it. This was one journalist to decided to print this.

:37:58. > :38:03.I have just recorded it. You said you like popping in and out of it.

:38:03. > :38:13.I did not say I did not like it, I said it is odd to flit in and out.

:38:13. > :38:17.

:38:17. > :38:24.Which is different. I do enjoy it. It is a sensation. Why? Partly

:38:24. > :38:29.because it is beautifully made. The scripts, at the beginning, they

:38:29. > :38:36.were new and vibrant. The attention to detail is astonishing. There is

:38:36. > :38:40.nothing that is not exact. You will be asked this all the time. Is

:38:40. > :38:48.there any way of comparing the screen with the stage? Do you long

:38:48. > :38:53.for the stage when you are away? do. When you are in one, you want

:38:53. > :38:57.to be in the other! That is true. Three months into a rounded you

:38:57. > :39:03.want a camera. When you are standing in the field, freezing

:39:03. > :39:11.cold, you want the Live Theatre. They are different disciplines.

:39:11. > :39:17.When your art -- when you are away from one you forget it. I was in

:39:17. > :39:24.this theatre watching you to do the same thing, being this person. To

:39:24. > :39:28.conclude, you have to get on to be able to do this together? It would

:39:28. > :39:34.be tricky if we did not get on. You are working very closely. Sometimes

:39:34. > :39:37.you have to make decisions together in rehearsal. One of you might have

:39:37. > :39:42.decided you felt about a situation in a particular way, and your

:39:42. > :39:47.brains have to meet on it. There is the lovely physical challenge of

:39:47. > :39:52.watching your colleague do something, and trying to echo it.

:39:52. > :39:57.Zoe Wanamaker and Samantha Bond, thanks.

:39:57. > :40:02.Very nice to meet them. The Defence Secretary is back from his first

:40:02. > :40:07.meeting with his US counterpart Chuck Hagel. No doubt Syria was on

:40:07. > :40:11.the agenda with the regime's alleged use of chemical weapons

:40:11. > :40:15.perhaps sharpening the case for intervention. There is Afghanistan,

:40:15. > :40:21.where more British troops died last week. The loss of life is all the

:40:21. > :40:25.harder when the end of the mission is in sight. Closer to home, the

:40:25. > :40:31.Chancellor wants more spending cuts. Philip Hammond is sending him off.

:40:31. > :40:35.We will find out about that as he joins us. We will start with Syria.

:40:35. > :40:42.News from overnight is that there has been a strike by Israel in

:40:42. > :40:48.Damascus. We are not sure what it is on. I have seen the reports. I

:40:48. > :40:58.do not think it is helpful to spare Israel has consistently said if it

:40:58. > :41:00.

:41:00. > :41:10.sees weapons moving to has -- to Hezbollah or. We have to look at

:41:10. > :41:13.

:41:13. > :41:18.reports in his -- in this context. These are unconfirmed reports.

:41:18. > :41:23.Israel has been consistent about drawing a red line, as they say,

:41:23. > :41:28.around weapons moving out of Syria and into the hands of Hezbollah,

:41:28. > :41:33.which they would see as a threat. The Americans seem to have a red

:41:33. > :41:39.line on Syria's use of chemical weapons. You met Chuck Hagel. Are

:41:39. > :41:44.they minded to arm the rebels? Chuck Hagel said at the press

:41:44. > :41:49.conference on Thursday, America is looking again at the question of

:41:49. > :41:54.potentially arming the opposition groups. They are in the same place

:41:54. > :42:00.we are. They are alarmed by the limited but persuasive evidence

:42:00. > :42:04.there is that chemical weapons used may have taken place. They are also

:42:04. > :42:11.keen to establish the facts and put them in front of the international

:42:11. > :42:17.community, ideally to the United Nations. Two years and there is no

:42:17. > :42:22.sense of urgency. I think there is a sense of urgency. Nobody is

:42:22. > :42:28.suggesting chemical weapon used has taken place over two years. This is

:42:28. > :42:38.recent. It is causing significant concern. We demand President Bashar

:42:38. > :42:38.

:42:38. > :42:44.al-Assad allows in the United Nations team to investigate. that

:42:44. > :42:53.would not frighten him? We need to establish whether chemical weapons

:42:53. > :42:56.have been used. This is a crime. We need to confront the international

:42:56. > :43:00.community with the facts and to present them to the Russians he

:43:00. > :43:07.made it clear they would not support the use of chemical weapons,

:43:07. > :43:13.although they have supported their regime. What is stopping us is we

:43:13. > :43:19.are not sure. When you become sure, them what? We have not got enough

:43:19. > :43:27.evidence. When we have evidence, we will presented to our allies. This

:43:27. > :43:34.is not something we can deal with a loan. It is a cumbersome process.

:43:34. > :43:39.We have seen terrible attacks over two years. Probably 70,000 people

:43:39. > :43:46.have been killed. 1 million displaced, millions suffering. We

:43:46. > :43:50.have to get rid of the shocking regime. But you are talking

:43:50. > :43:54.specifically about chemical weapons. There is limited but persuasive

:43:54. > :43:59.evidence there has been recent limited use of chemical weapons.

:43:59. > :44:03.That is not what is delivering the tally of 70,000 people who have

:44:03. > :44:09.been killed. The overwhelming majority of people have been killed

:44:09. > :44:17.by conventional weapons. Even more reason to do something. We are

:44:17. > :44:21.trying to build a coalition against the regime. As you know, some

:44:21. > :44:27.nations are supporting that regime that have rejected and blocked any

:44:27. > :44:32.attempt to move in the United Nations to stop this terrible set

:44:32. > :44:39.of atrocities. Is part of your concern about arming the rebels

:44:39. > :44:43.that you are on the wrong people? We are clear we would support the

:44:43. > :44:47.National Coalition. We recognise them as the sole legitimate

:44:47. > :44:55.representatives of the Syrian people. We want to strengthen the

:44:56. > :44:59.moderates in the opposition against the extremists. That is part of the

:44:59. > :45:04.equation we would have to take into account in deciding to change the

:45:04. > :45:10.stance in the future. Let me ask you about Afghanistan. Three

:45:10. > :45:16.soldiers died this week in a vehicle that is supposed to be

:45:16. > :45:21.bomb-proof. 23 tonnes. That is concerning for you. It is very

:45:21. > :45:27.concerning. Our thoughts are with family and friends of the men who

:45:27. > :45:32.died this week. They died doing an important job. Although our mission

:45:32. > :45:37.is coming to an end, we will need to expose ourselves to risk right

:45:37. > :45:42.up to the end in order to protect forces and ensure that we

:45:42. > :45:47.withdrawal from Afghanistan. have seemed, with the vehicles, to

:45:47. > :45:51.have eliminated the danger of roadside bombs? We have invested

:45:51. > :45:56.money in the best armoured vehicles. We have seen in consequence a

:45:56. > :46:05.dramatic decline in the number of casualties due to those devices.

:46:05. > :46:10.You cannot, 100%, protect against massive roadside bombs. Even the

:46:10. > :46:18.most heavily armoured vehicle will have some balm ability. --

:46:18. > :46:26.vulnerability. Afghan security forces are due to take the lead

:46:26. > :46:30.role next month. Is that still the case? Afghan security forces have

:46:30. > :46:34.lead responsibility in areas covering 90% of the population.

:46:34. > :46:43.Over the next couple of months they will have taken control of security

:46:43. > :46:50.across the whole of the country. They are leading and planning 80%

:46:51. > :46:58.of military operations. There is a transition going on to Afghan

:46:58. > :47:03.control of this operation. Britain knows it is coming up by 2014. That

:47:03. > :47:10.makes every death harder to bear. The end of the mission is in sight.

:47:10. > :47:16.Do you think we should start clearing out faster? No. We have a

:47:16. > :47:22.clear draw down plan. It will take us through 2013 and 2014 to end the

:47:22. > :47:27.combat mission at the end of next year. This is a planned transition

:47:27. > :47:32.of responsibility to the Afghan people. Continuing to support them

:47:32. > :47:36.and train them over that period. And also managing the logistics

:47:36. > :47:46.challenge of bringing back the vast amount of equipment that we have in

:47:46. > :47:56.Afghanistan and making sure we don't leave it behind. I think the

:47:56. > :48:01.show sure we have is the right one. -- schedule. It is said the rule of

:48:01. > :48:05.the Taliban is more extensive and that does measure -- does not

:48:05. > :48:10.measure success? We have a calibrated planned to leave over

:48:10. > :48:18.the next 18 months. That has regard to the need to support the Afghan

:48:18. > :48:23.forces. It also has regard to the logistics challenge of bringing

:48:23. > :48:29.equipment and people out. It is not practical or sensible to go any

:48:29. > :48:34.faster. Can I ask you about Afghan interpreters who want to stay here.

:48:34. > :48:41.To come here. They say they will be killed in Afghanistan. You do not

:48:41. > :48:46.want them to. We have 11 hundreds locally employed civilians in

:48:46. > :48:53.Afghanistan about half of them interpreters. We estimate they will

:48:53. > :48:57.have on average between 5 and 6 dependents. We are talking about a

:48:57. > :49:03.large number of people. We have in place a regime that is able to deal

:49:03. > :49:08.with cases where people are under threat. We have a mechanism for

:49:08. > :49:14.dealing with them. It is possible for people to seek settlement in

:49:15. > :49:21.the UK if they are at risk. We are looking to build the future of

:49:21. > :49:24.Afghanistan. We are looking to make it a success story. Some of these

:49:24. > :49:29.people are well-educated, capable, who ought to be able to play a part

:49:29. > :49:34.in the future of Afghanistan. We are trying to put together packages

:49:34. > :49:38.that will make it attractive and practical to stay in Afghanistan.

:49:38. > :49:44.Not in Helmand Province, because that would not be safe probably,

:49:44. > :49:49.but many of them are from other parts. They are not coming to the

:49:49. > :49:53.UK? We have not said that conclusively. We have a mechanism

:49:53. > :49:58.for those at risk to apply for settlement in the UK. We are

:49:58. > :50:02.talking about how we deal with the bulk of people as they enter

:50:02. > :50:07.employment with the UK Government. How can we support them to make

:50:07. > :50:14.their future in Afghanistan and contribute to its success. Let me

:50:14. > :50:18.ask you about domestic politics. Calling UKIP clowns was a mistake?

:50:18. > :50:25.The majority of the people who supported UKIP of ordinary, decent

:50:25. > :50:30.people. Many of them are frustrated Conservatives. Frustrated at the

:50:30. > :50:34.length of time it is taking to get the economy growing. Frustrated by

:50:34. > :50:38.the constraints of coalition Government and how globalisation

:50:38. > :50:43.limits the ability to control the world that affects us. We

:50:43. > :50:50.understand those concerns. We are addressing the key issues they care

:50:50. > :50:55.about. Immigration is down by one- third. The deficit is down. Welfare.

:50:55. > :51:00.We have to go on doing those things. We have to double efforts to

:51:00. > :51:04.deliver on those things that matter to ordinary people. We have to

:51:05. > :51:09.communicate that better. We have to remind them we are governing

:51:10. > :51:13.coalition. As we come to the general election and start to set

:51:13. > :51:17.out the policies of the Conservative Party, for a

:51:17. > :51:22.Conservative government after the election, we will be able to

:51:22. > :51:27.demonstrate how we will address more clearly those concerns. That

:51:27. > :51:31.is a long way away. You have the Queen's speech this week. You can

:51:31. > :51:37.respond directly on the European Union, immigration. We deduce it

:51:37. > :51:47.that way? We are reducing immigration. It is down by one-

:51:47. > :51:47.

:51:47. > :51:50.third. We have put a limit on welfare. We are seeing the start of

:51:50. > :51:54.Universal Credit right now. Something that the majority of

:51:55. > :51:59.people support. The Labour Party opposed it in Parliament. On the

:51:59. > :52:04.European Union, we have made it crystal clear a Conservative

:52:04. > :52:09.government will hold a referendum on the membership of the European

:52:09. > :52:14.Union in the next Parliament. Clearly, there is a head of steam

:52:14. > :52:24.behind the idea of legislating quickly on the referendum. Are you

:52:24. > :52:25.

:52:25. > :52:32.behind that? I understand the scepticism. We should do everything

:52:32. > :52:39.we can to reassure people about our commitment. We should make it clear,

:52:39. > :52:45.including publishing a bill to see what will be in it. This side of

:52:45. > :52:49.the election? The reality is that we would not get a bill through

:52:49. > :52:55.Parliament. The Labour Party does not want people to have a say on

:52:55. > :53:00.Europe. The Liberal Democrats would not support it. We would not get

:53:00. > :53:05.the Bill through Parliament. We will do everything we can do to

:53:05. > :53:10.show a clear commitment. We have not written our manifesto. I would

:53:10. > :53:19.imagine it will make Akeley a commitment to legislate in for the

:53:19. > :53:25.referendum as soon as -- we will make a clear commitment. I would

:53:25. > :53:30.support the idea of publishing a draft bill before the election.

:53:30. > :53:35.me ask you about the Deputy Speaker. Nigel Evans under arrest for

:53:35. > :53:42.alleged rape. He is denying that. People at Westminster are

:53:42. > :53:46.flabbergasted. I am very shocked. I have known Nigel well for years. I

:53:46. > :53:56.am as shocked as everybody else by the revelations. Can he remain as

:53:56. > :54:06.Deputy Speaker? That is an interesting question. The Speaker

:54:06. > :54:08.

:54:08. > :54:11.will have to consider that. Nigel is denying the accusations. I stick

:54:11. > :54:18.rigidly to the view that we should treat people as innocent until

:54:18. > :54:28.proven guilty. It is difficult to carry out a high-profile role by

:54:28. > :54:33.

:54:33. > :54:39.being -- while being under the bail last night, after being

:54:39. > :54:43.arrested on suspicion of rape and sexual assault. The company MP is

:54:43. > :54:47.understood to have been questioned on alleged attacks on two men in

:54:47. > :54:53.their 20s between 2009 and 2013. The Prime Minister has been informed of

:54:53. > :54:57.his arrest. The leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage, has denied his party

:54:57. > :55:01.is merely a pressure group and insisted the name is to change

:55:01. > :55:05.British politics. He told this programme that he didn't believe the

:55:05. > :55:09.Conservative Party would change its policies sufficiently to satisfy

:55:09. > :55:13.voters who switched to UKIP, but he said he would be willing to discuss

:55:13. > :55:18.an accommodation with the Tories if David Cameron were removed as

:55:18. > :55:23.leader. He confirmed that he will stand for a Westminster seat in the

:55:23. > :55:26.general election in 2015. That's all from me. The next news is just

:55:26. > :55:31.before midday. Back to Jeremy and guests in one moment, but first a

:55:32. > :55:36.look at what is coming up after this show. Join us from Birmingham, when

:55:36. > :55:39.we'll be asking just one big question - are religions unfair to

:55:39. > :55:46.women? We have distinguished women and two men from four faiths here

:55:46. > :55:56.waiting to wrestle over that one. See you at 10 on BBC One. Thank you.

:55:56. > :55:56.

:55:56. > :56:00.The violin violinist Nigel Kennedy is here. He's very passionate about

:56:00. > :56:08.jazz and constantly pushing at musical boundaries. He has a new

:56:08. > :56:15.album out and it mixes classical, moody jazz and traditional fiddling

:56:15. > :56:19.Fats Wallah to Bach. It sounds like a mix. So many different forms of

:56:19. > :56:27.music provide joy for so many people and I'm lucky to have heard it and

:56:27. > :56:31.to be able to play some. Who are your great heroes? Menuin gave me an

:56:31. > :56:36.education in classical and a had a lot of experience with improvised

:56:36. > :56:41.music, so I was lucky as a young guy to have two great mentors. Tell us

:56:41. > :56:48.about the violin you are holding. This has been cleaned about two

:56:48. > :56:54.years ago. It's a modern fiddle and its ten years old and the neighbours

:56:54. > :57:00.don't like it. It must be good. know you are touring and it must be

:57:00. > :57:04.incredible to see the same faces and new faces. It's wonderful to be

:57:04. > :57:09.playing with the musicians with the friends I have. It's more intimate

:57:09. > :57:14.and not a big orchestra and a small group of players, playing stuff that