:00:11. > :00:17.This is BBC News. The headlines: The former prime minister of
:00:17. > :00:20.Pakistan declares victory in the country's election.
:00:20. > :00:24.Seen in each -- senior gnashers issue what they call an
:00:24. > :00:26.unprecedented warning, saying nursing levels are unsafe and of
:00:26. > :00:30.being ignored. Conservative ministers are being
:00:30. > :00:35.advised to abstain from a vote over a failure to guarantee a referendum
:00:35. > :00:40.on the UK's the EU membership. Around 100 backbench MPs could
:00:40. > :00:44.oppose Government policy. In the next hour the British
:00:44. > :00:50.scientists who have crossed an ancient wheat with a modern one to
:00:50. > :00:54.come -- create a new strain. The week could increase crop yields by
:00:54. > :00:57.a third. Prince Harry takes part in
:00:58. > :01:07.America's Warrior Games for injured servicemen and women. He says he
:01:08. > :01:23.
:01:23. > :01:27.hopes to bring the competition to Pakistan's former prime minister,
:01:27. > :01:37.Nawaz Sharif, appears to have won a third term in the country's general
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :02:51.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds
:02:51. > :02:56.election. The party of Imran Khan chety.
:02:56. > :02:58.Good morning N Pakistan, unofficial election results show that the
:02:58. > :03:02.former Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif is heading for victory following
:03:02. > :03:07.Saturday's elections. The party of the former cricket star, Imran Khan
:03:07. > :03:13.is emerging as the second largest. Voter turnout has been put at nearly
:03:14. > :03:17.60%. The highest in the country in nearly 60 years. Votes will still
:03:17. > :03:21.being counted but the result will be being counted but the result will be
:03:21. > :03:25.highly significant. Turkey has warned it will take any necessary
:03:25. > :03:28.measure to protect itself, after two car bombs exploded in a town on the
:03:28. > :03:31.Turkish border with Syria. At least 40 people were killed in the town of
:03:31. > :03:33.Reyhanli and at least 100 were injured. The Turkish Government
:03:34. > :03:41.suspects a group, linked to Syria's intelligence agency, of carrying out
:03:41. > :03:44.the attacks. Here, about 100 Tory MPs are thought to be preparing to
:03:44. > :03:46.go against the Government in a Commons vote on a European
:03:46. > :03:49.referendum this week. A Downing Street source has confirmed that
:03:49. > :03:51.ministers are being advised to abstain in the vote which criticises
:03:51. > :04:01.the Government's failure to include legislation guaranteeing a
:04:01. > :04:01.
:04:01. > :04:04.referendum on EU membership in last week's Queen's Speech. A group of
:04:04. > :04:06.senior nurses says staffing levels on wards in many hospitals in
:04:06. > :04:09.England are unsafe. The Safe Staffing Alliance says nurses are
:04:09. > :04:12.regularly being asked to look after more than eight patients each
:04:12. > :04:22.substantially increasing the risk of harm or death. The Government says
:04:22. > :05:02.
:05:02. > :05:06.hospitals are best placed to decide nursing leader in Salford, say low
:05:06. > :05:09.levels of staffing must be publicly levels of staffing must be publicly
:05:09. > :05:15.recorded and investigated. You can't ask somebody to do a job
:05:15. > :05:19.and then tie their hands behind their back. So, I think if we want
:05:19. > :05:23.nurses to be caring, compassionate, and deliver safe care to our
:05:23. > :05:29.patients and their families, then we've got to give enough staff in
:05:29. > :05:32.order to deliver that. Government says it's the hospitals,
:05:32. > :05:37.not ministers who should decide how many nurses are on duty. In the
:05:37. > :05:41.future there will be a Chief Inspector of Hospitals in England
:05:42. > :05:45.who'll take action if wards don't have enough staff.
:05:45. > :05:49.Prince Harry has taken part in the torch relay at America's Warrior
:05:49. > :05:53.Games, a competition for injured servicemen and women. The Prince,
:05:53. > :05:58.who are in Colorado as part of his nine-day US tour, also joined in a
:05:58. > :06:03.game of sitting volleyball with some athletes. Next week he'll travel to
:06:03. > :06:06.New Jersey to visit communities affected by hurricane Sandy.
:06:07. > :06:14.That's all from me. That's all from me.
:06:14. > :06:21.Now time to get back to James. The front pages are all rather
:06:21. > :06:31.nostalgic. It is the Sunday Times Tory civil warrer results over
:06:31. > :06:36.
:06:36. > :06:43.Europe vote. We will talk to Michael Gove about that later. It is over
:06:43. > :06:51.whether ministers can vote against the Queen's Speech. Gordon Brown is
:06:51. > :06:56.weighing into the debate about independence. The Observer Lord
:06:56. > :06:58.Young saying recession is a good timer whether ministers can vote
:06:58. > :07:00.against the Queen's Speech. Gordon Brown is weighing into the debate
:07:00. > :07:03.about independence. The Observer Lord Young saying recession is a
:07:03. > :07:08.good time to make the most of low labour costs causing controversy.
:07:08. > :07:12.The Sunday Express. We have got to pull out our own teeth apparent y.
:07:12. > :07:15.Dentistry is getting too expensive and The Mail on Sunday more on their
:07:15. > :07:19.campaign against closures of accident and emergency departments
:07:19. > :07:24.around the country and the Sun on Sunday child sex perv from
:07:24. > :07:30.EastEnders. Welcome. Lots and lots of Europe. You can't escape it.
:07:30. > :07:35.Well, you can't escape it. Well, the thing that I think is incredible.
:07:35. > :07:39.This is a vote on something that was not in the Queen's Speech and David
:07:39. > :07:46.Cameron who won't be here for the vote, because he will be in America,
:07:46. > :07:54.has suggested that the brave thing to do is abstain on it. So it just -
:07:54. > :07:57.it is ridiculous. The word bonkers features quite, well besides
:07:57. > :08:01.turmoil, bonkers might be the most used word in the papers this
:08:01. > :08:06.morning. I just think it is one of these things where the only person
:08:06. > :08:09.who will be happy is Nigel Farage. He will be looking at this and just
:08:09. > :08:13.loving. Maureen, do you think any of this
:08:13. > :08:18.matters? The talk of people voting against the Queen's Speech gets
:08:18. > :08:24.people excited. Does it touch your life? Oh, marginally. No, I think
:08:24. > :08:29.you are right. It just plays into the idea of politicians time wasting
:08:29. > :08:33.and being rather silly as you will talk about later with the
:08:33. > :08:38.politician's wife. It is not what we need at the moment, is it really? We
:08:38. > :08:43.need a referendum, I guess. I think we should just have the referendum
:08:43. > :08:46.nowish. P would put a lot of journalists out of a job? The other
:08:46. > :08:50.argument is whether we are going to have this vote on something, again
:08:50. > :08:55.we don't know what is going to happen, because Dave has to
:08:55. > :09:01.renegotiate after getting releged. Now the -- re-elected. Now, the big
:09:01. > :09:05.thing is maybe it will be a year earlier. I think it is taking a a
:09:05. > :09:09.false argument to a new level. It will give journalists a lot of
:09:09. > :09:13.work because they will be able to explain to us why we need to be in
:09:13. > :09:23.or out of Europe. Well, let's move on. We will talk about Europe later.
:09:23. > :09:28.I have to do this. Let's move on from Europe. Are you kidding? Nick
:09:28. > :09:32.Clegg has given a thing where accused the Conservative Party of
:09:32. > :09:39.endless naval gazing. For a Lib Dem to accuse the Conservatives, I mean
:09:40. > :09:43.obviously it is true, for the Lib Dems, that is - if that was brand
:09:43. > :09:53.they would have nothing to do. We are going to talk about this
:09:53. > :09:53.
:09:53. > :09:57.more. Stephen Hawking. Well, this is from the Sunday Times. There is not
:09:57. > :10:04.a lot in the papers. It is either Europe or the man with the three
:10:04. > :10:11.women in the basement or Sir Alex Ferguson, you know. But this Rod
:10:11. > :10:16.Liddle has a go and I'm on his camp because Stephen Hawking is refusing
:10:16. > :10:26.to go to a conference in Israel because it is Israel. What is going
:10:26. > :10:28.on in the world where Israel is regarded as a pariah State? Nobody
:10:28. > :10:33.bans people going to the other countries that are actually
:10:33. > :10:38.persecuting their own people. I am looking for the demonstrations about
:10:38. > :10:43.Syria. I am looking for rth North Korean people being banned. I am
:10:43. > :10:49.looking for other and I don't see it. There is a hysteria out there. I
:10:49. > :10:53.am sorry, I don't want to call it anti-semitism. He has been lent upon
:10:53. > :10:56.by Palestinian friends to ban academics. This is a Stalinist point
:10:56. > :11:00.of view. This kind of thing has been
:11:00. > :11:05.happening for a long time, hasn't it? In other countries around the
:11:05. > :11:13.world. It is a way they protest, isn't it now? Well, it is a curious
:11:13. > :11:20.kind of left-wing, I am left-wing. It happened and it is a hysteria and
:11:20. > :11:26.it is fanned and he says, he points out and it is worth pointing out
:11:26. > :11:30.that Israel created created so much in the world of science that Stephen
:11:30. > :11:36.Hawking wouldn't able to speak if he didn't have the chip created in
:11:36. > :11:45.Israel. I would like the hysteria to stop. If they want to talk to the
:11:46. > :11:53.Palestinians then you don't go about that by ban banning debate and
:11:53. > :11:59.academics. Ann, driverless cars? This is a link to Europe. I feel
:11:59. > :12:05.Europe is a driverless car! You can't stop. I'm going to stop
:12:05. > :12:09.that now. I find this story. The reality of the driverless car is now
:12:09. > :12:15.apparently come closer. David Willetts who is not a driverless
:12:15. > :12:19.car, but sometimes you wonder! In California they allow driverless
:12:19. > :12:24.cars on public roads. A lot goes on in California. I don't think we need
:12:24. > :12:31.to copy that. But he is going to change the regulation that would
:12:31. > :12:36.allow driverless cars on public roads. This regulation roads might
:12:36. > :12:40.say that a human has to be in a car driving it. The whole idea that in
:12:40. > :12:45.the future we are going to have cars that we don't need to be there. We
:12:45. > :12:50.must nb the back or something! don't believe a word and then ten
:12:50. > :12:56.years later they happen and you see one of these things driving past
:12:56. > :13:00.your front door? That would be really frightening. It is like one
:13:00. > :13:07.of my nightmares driverless cars especially in England. California
:13:07. > :13:13.roads, there is a lot of... There is a lot of space. How close are we to
:13:13. > :13:17.a driverless car? There is a robot car.
:13:17. > :13:25.Maureen, Helen Mirren is still making headlines? She is good. She
:13:25. > :13:30.is a good PR for herself. She is such a geezer. She stalked out of
:13:30. > :13:36.her play and told the drummers to shut up. Now it is a point about how
:13:36. > :13:42.much actors have control, have power of what they are doing. We have
:13:42. > :13:48.another article here in The Mail on Sunday which is about Isla Fisher
:13:48. > :13:51.who almost drowned in a tank because somebody told her to. Helen is great
:13:51. > :13:59.because she takes control and I have done that myself, I have stalked out
:13:59. > :14:06.at the chocolate factory in a 19 century wig to stop a party that was
:14:07. > :14:14.being held for skins to which I was invIEtds. Something gets into dish
:14:14. > :14:17.invited. Something gets into you. you think she was in character?
:14:17. > :14:21.must have been, except the language was vile, wasn't it.
:14:21. > :14:31.You are on stage in North London yourself at the minute? I will be in
:14:31. > :14:35.July. Yes, I will be back in a newly built theatre, the Park Theatre in
:14:35. > :14:42.Finsbury Park and it is a play by Oliver Cotton.
:14:42. > :14:50.The audiences should be ready. You are willing to intervene? I am not
:14:50. > :14:59.for intervening when phones go off. My way would be - "there sounds as
:14:59. > :15:09.if there is a lot of per cushion outside. ." I admire her.
:15:09. > :15:10.
:15:10. > :15:20.Archbishop of Canterbury and Abu ka tad tadder? The new archbishop is
:15:20. > :15:33.
:15:33. > :15:37.everywhere. I am unsurprised to discover ab Abu kwp Quatader. We
:15:38. > :15:47.have the archbishop telling us about his life as archbishop where he
:15:48. > :15:59.
:15:59. > :16:06.takes the bus. I hope he takes it in his outfit. He says he shops at
:16:06. > :16:10.Oxfam. I think it is a breath of fresh air. But the crook is the
:16:10. > :16:14.bridge between Abu Qatada. Very sharp.
:16:15. > :16:19.Smoking and pregnancy. All pregnant women, say the Sunday Times in the
:16:19. > :16:26.headline - will be asked to take breath tests for carbon monoxide to
:16:26. > :16:30.check if they are telling the truth about smoking. This is NICE, the
:16:30. > :16:36.National Institute. It says - midwives should test all women with
:16:36. > :16:40.carbon monoxide kits at antenatal appointments and anyone with a high
:16:40. > :16:45.reading will be referred to smoking cessation services. We are losing
:16:45. > :16:49.all power. Isn't it a good thing? Should pregnant women... Well, to be
:16:49. > :16:54.tested on whether you are lying about it. It is hard to quit
:16:54. > :16:58.smoking. We are all products of mother's who smoked. It was a much
:16:58. > :17:04.gentler calmer world that you could go - before you hit someone in the
:17:04. > :17:13.eye with a pointy stick. I'm not condoning smoking. I'm just saying
:17:13. > :17:18.we are grown-ups usually when we are pregnant, can we be trusted. There
:17:18. > :17:23.is enough going on that you are frightened about, shall I
:17:23. > :17:28.breast-feed? Shall I give them the triple jab? It is insulting to
:17:28. > :17:33.women. The front page of the Observer, Lord Young getting himself
:17:33. > :17:38.into hot water He specialises in that. He that is his purpose in
:17:38. > :17:46.life. He has had to resign once over things that he said. I think
:17:46. > :17:49.personally, if he really believes this, it's unbelievable that...
:17:49. > :17:53.Recession is a good time because you can hire people because wages are
:17:53. > :17:56.cheaper. It cuts the cost. Is it a statement of the obvious or
:17:56. > :18:00.something that is genuinely offensive as trade unions are
:18:00. > :18:04.pointing out this morning? I think it is a statement of what is
:18:04. > :18:08.happening. I mean, wages have gone down, but it is not a good thing for
:18:08. > :18:11.the people with the lower wages, quite obviously and since those
:18:12. > :18:17.people are voters, you would think that that would put something in his
:18:17. > :18:21.mind there. You know, obviously the idea is that everyone, you know,
:18:21. > :18:27.growth should be happening. The idea is not to highlight this kind of
:18:27. > :18:33.stuff and to celebrate it and perhaps encourage it. A quick final
:18:33. > :18:39.story? This is on holiday where you go script writing in Italy, med
:18:39. > :18:46.Taiting in India, cookery in Asia, and yoga in Spain and gardening in
:18:46. > :18:56.Tuscany with Sir Roy Strong. What do you do on holiday? I have been in
:18:56. > :18:58.
:18:58. > :19:02.the gal apagos Islands, damned hard work.
:19:02. > :19:07.See Seeing blue footed boobies. After you have the holiday you then
:19:07. > :19:10.have to go on holiday. As you probably noticed, the weather
:19:10. > :19:14.can't make up its mind at the moment. Have we had our summer
:19:14. > :19:17.already? Or will it be rain from now on in?
:19:17. > :19:23.on in? Helen Willets can tell us.
:19:23. > :19:26.I really hope we haven't had our summer already but the next few days
:19:26. > :19:32.looks distinctly unappetising. Today we are seeing the best of the
:19:32. > :19:35.sunshine now. It is zoontly turning cloudier and wetter as I speak. --
:19:35. > :19:39.it is constantly. It'll be soggy in the west of
:19:39. > :19:43.Scotland and eastern England will join in this afternoon. Make the
:19:43. > :19:47.most of the sunshine. It will be cool underneath the breezy, cloudy,
:19:47. > :19:52.damp conditions. Behind the rain it'll stay rather damp and drizzly
:19:52. > :19:56.and misty for the likes of Northern Ireland. Not great news for the Ten
:19:56. > :20:01.Tours in the south-west later today. In the south-east, after early
:20:01. > :20:06.sunshine temperatures could reach 14 or is a but as the rain arrives it
:20:06. > :20:08.turns much cooler. -- 14 or 15. There might be late brightness
:20:08. > :20:13.across Scotland and Northern Ireland but at the same time a strong wind
:20:13. > :20:18.will rush in heavy showers, hail, thunder and sleet and snow overnight
:20:18. > :20:21.in the hills of Scotland. Cold enough for a frost overnight. Fairly
:20:21. > :20:25.chilly further south. Tomorrow looks drier in the south. For the north,
:20:25. > :20:29.it is cold, windy, showery. That continues into Tuesday. Still snow
:20:29. > :20:33.on the hills, whilst further south, Tuesday potentially could bring wet
:20:33. > :20:43.and windy weather T doesn't look appetising for the next couple of
:20:43. > :20:45.
:20:45. > :20:49.After the economy, it is immigration that is worrying voters most. That
:20:50. > :20:54.at least is what the opinion polls suggest and the surge in support for
:20:54. > :20:57.UKIP appears to confimplt the Government has set out its latest
:20:57. > :21:00.plans in the Queen's Speech. Landlords will have to check the
:21:00. > :21:04.immigration status of their tennants. There will be another
:21:04. > :21:09.clampdown on so-called health tourism and more pressure on the
:21:09. > :21:12.courts to deport foreign criminals. I'm joined by Shadow Home Secretary,
:21:12. > :21:16.Yvette Cooper. Do you believe immigration is too high? We said the
:21:16. > :21:19.pace of immigration was too fast. It is right to bring the level down
:21:19. > :21:24.which is why we have supported some of the measures the Government has
:21:24. > :21:29.introduced. For example, a greater restriction on people coming here
:21:29. > :21:32.with high qualifications but coming to do lower-skilled jobs. So there
:21:32. > :21:37.are things like that you should do. We recognise that there were things
:21:37. > :21:40.that we did, for example, around not having transitional controls on
:21:40. > :21:45.eastern European migration, which we should have done. When you say the
:21:45. > :21:50.pace of immigration was too high, does that mean you think immigration
:21:50. > :21:53.was too high under Labour and it is too high now? Well as I said, we
:21:53. > :21:57.think the levels should come down, which is why we are supporting some
:21:57. > :22:02.of the measures the Government has introduced but you also have to look
:22:02. > :22:06.at... You never use the phrase - immigration is too high. I just Z I
:22:06. > :22:08.talked about because you had the problem, for example, of not having
:22:08. > :22:13.transitional controls for Eastern Europe. But you have to look at what
:22:13. > :22:15.kind of immigration you have. So I think, for example, illegal
:22:15. > :22:19.immigration has been a growing problem. There should be much
:22:19. > :22:23.stronger action to deal with that. The Government is not doing that.
:22:23. > :22:25.But at the same time what the Government is doing is putting off
:22:25. > :22:29.legitimate university students who bring billions of pounds into the
:22:29. > :22:33.economy. You have to look at the kind of immigration as well as the
:22:33. > :22:35.level and pace. If you think immigration must come down, by how
:22:35. > :22:40.much? I think there is a problem with the approach the Government is
:22:40. > :22:44.taking, because they've said they've set this target for net migration,
:22:44. > :22:48.which, in practice, includes a lot of British citizens. So, for
:22:48. > :22:53.example, the way in which net migration has fallen over the last
:22:53. > :22:58.few years, two-thirds is British citizens, for example, it is fewer
:22:58. > :23:02.Brits coming back home and also more Brits leaving. That isn't a disputed
:23:02. > :23:06.statistic. There is a lot of evidence. The ONS has put out
:23:06. > :23:11.figures that suggests that it is student numbers that are making a
:23:11. > :23:18.greater impact It is a big issue about students. That is right. My
:23:18. > :23:21.point is this, if... If you object to the Government's figures of net
:23:21. > :23:25.migration, choose your number. have to look at a series of
:23:26. > :23:30.different things. We have said low-skilled migration should come
:23:30. > :23:34.down. By how much? What numbers are we talking about? The Government has
:23:34. > :23:38.attempted to set a target but what it has done is proved irresponsible.
:23:38. > :23:42.Instead, what they have ended up doing is ignore illegal immigration
:23:42. > :23:46.because it is not included. You would want to get illegal
:23:46. > :23:49.immigration down as close to zero. That should be the long-term
:23:49. > :23:53.objective. Illegal immigration is something nobody wants to see.
:23:53. > :23:56.That's why we have said you want different action in order to tackle
:23:56. > :24:00.illegal immigration but you've also got to look at the impact of
:24:00. > :24:03.immigration in the labour market and so on and you have to recognise
:24:03. > :24:07.that, actually, we have benefited in Britain for over very many
:24:07. > :24:12.generations, from people who have come to this country, contributed,
:24:12. > :24:16.built great businesses, worked on the national health service, won
:24:16. > :24:20.Olympic gold medals. So, immigration has to be controlled and managed but
:24:20. > :24:23.you have to recognise its importance for Britain's future. You say you
:24:23. > :24:26.support some of the measure the Government has proposed in the
:24:26. > :24:30.Queen's Speech. Let's go through some to see what you think. Do you
:24:30. > :24:35.believe the Government is right to say that new migrants should not
:24:35. > :24:39.have total access to the NHS, before they spent some time here paying
:24:39. > :24:42.taxes? We don't know what they are actually saying. Well you support
:24:42. > :24:45.the principle? No, we don't know what the Government is planning to
:24:45. > :24:50.do at all at the moment. You are right they made a big fanfare and
:24:50. > :24:54.announced a lot of things and RAFFed up the rhetoric but we have had no
:24:54. > :24:58.practical specific measures. -- ramped up the rhetoric. And we are
:24:58. > :25:02.being told the Immigration Bill won't be published for four months.
:25:02. > :25:06.I don't think it is responsible to ramp up rhetoric and not have
:25:06. > :25:10.practical measures. We have set a series of practical measures you
:25:10. > :25:14.should introduce. On something like the NHS, there are already legal
:25:14. > :25:20.requirements on hospitals, for example, to recover costs for people
:25:20. > :25:24.who shouldn't be entitled to free NHS care. But, the Government - all
:25:24. > :25:26.they have told us they would do on the NHS, is do an audit of the
:25:27. > :25:31.extent of the problem. Why didn't they do that before they have said
:25:31. > :25:35.what they are going to do about it. What you don't want is to have
:25:35. > :25:40.people arriving in A&E and ask for their papers, in the same way people
:25:40. > :25:43.can be asked for their credit card in bhaeshg or other countries. The
:25:43. > :25:47.Government was specific about saying landlords should check the
:25:47. > :25:50.immigration status of their tennants. Do you support that?There
:25:50. > :25:54.is much more you could do around private landlords. There are
:25:54. > :25:57.problems, you have, for example, private landlords who may have
:25:57. > :26:00.overcrowded housing with foreign workers in, that then actually
:26:00. > :26:03.becomes used to undercut the minimum wage and things like that. So I
:26:03. > :26:08.think there is a genuine problem here. But, again, the Government
:26:08. > :26:11.hasn't told us how they would do this. We have called for a statutory
:26:11. > :26:16.register of private landlords that would allow you to do all kind of
:26:16. > :26:19.things and look at standards issues and so on. If you don't have that,
:26:19. > :26:23.how would it be enforced? The Government doesn't know who the
:26:23. > :26:27.private landlords are in this country? How are they going to ask
:26:27. > :26:30.them to set particular tests for tennants? I think there is no
:26:30. > :26:35.practical detail about how the Government would make this work. I
:26:35. > :26:38.think that is a problem. Do you believe that Abu Qatada will return
:26:38. > :26:44.to Jordan. Do you think there is a process under way? I really hope so.
:26:44. > :26:53.I think this has gone on far too long. It is a really enfortunate is
:26:53. > :26:56.a ga. The legal process has two on too long. -- unfortunate saga. I
:26:56. > :26:59.wish Abu Qatada had made his statement years earlier that he
:26:59. > :27:05.would return voluntarily. Are you confident he will go? We'll wait to
:27:05. > :27:10.see that it is not just a legal employ. I hope he goes. -- a legal
:27:10. > :27:15.ploy. We want him to face a fair trial in Jordan. This weekend, Ed
:27:15. > :27:19.Miliband said it would be wrong to offer people an in-out referendum on
:27:19. > :27:23.Europe. Why should people not have a say? We have said the most important
:27:23. > :27:28.thing right now, and it is what people are saying to us in the
:27:28. > :27:32.doorsteps and polls, is to get the economy going. You have to get
:27:32. > :27:35.growth and businesses going and investment. People want a say.The
:27:35. > :27:39.problem with what the Government has proposed is anoncing a referendum
:27:39. > :27:43.for four or five years' time, is you have huge uncertainty for businesses
:27:44. > :27:48.at a time when you should get the economy growing. I don't think you
:27:48. > :27:52.should do things that put that at stake. Instead we have a frenzy
:27:52. > :27:56.going on in the Tory Party about a vote this week. You know, utterly
:27:56. > :28:00.incomprehensible. You have Government ministers potentially
:28:00. > :28:03.voting against their own Queen's Speech. You need cool, calm heads
:28:03. > :28:07.and statesman-like behaviour at a time like this. I don't think that's
:28:07. > :28:11.what David Cameron is showing. Is there anybody in your party saying -
:28:11. > :28:14.why not call for a referendum, it might divide the Government, the
:28:14. > :28:17.Conservatives and it means you can argue your case for membership of
:28:18. > :28:21.the European Union? Well, look, there is legislation in place that
:28:21. > :28:25.provides for referendums, depending on what happens in future but the
:28:25. > :28:30.priority now, we are very clear, has to be getting people into jobs.
:28:30. > :28:34.Let's have a guaranteed job for young peel, rather than leaving them
:28:34. > :28:39.to languish on unemployment benefit and not get them into work. Let's
:28:39. > :28:42.build 100 thousand houses and repeal this really damaging regulation on
:28:42. > :28:45.privatisation of the NHS. There are practical things the Government
:28:45. > :28:49.could do in this Queen's Speech. They are turning their back on it
:28:49. > :28:53.and fighting each other. Thank you for joining us this morning.
:28:53. > :28:58.Now Lord Browne, the former Chief Executive of BP, is one of Britain's
:28:58. > :29:03.foremost business leaders. Steeped in the global energy industry. A
:29:03. > :29:07.physicist by training, he has written a book about the seven
:29:07. > :29:11.chemical lots which have shaped our world and his career.
:29:11. > :29:15.The elements covered include gold, silicon, uranium and of course,
:29:15. > :29:20.carbon. Lord Browne came into the studio recently to discuss the seven
:29:20. > :29:25.elements with my colleague, Sophie Raworth, starting with carbon
:29:25. > :29:29.because he says it gets such a bad rap. China couldn't have got as far
:29:29. > :29:32.as they have got without cold and oil and gas and the United States, I
:29:32. > :29:37.think oil has defined freedom. The freedom to choose where to live,
:29:37. > :29:42.where to go and how to get there. Carbon has an incredibly destructive
:29:42. > :29:48.side to it, doesn't it, in terms of humans, of greed, all kinds of
:29:48. > :29:55.things? Oh, everything. Death, accidents, mining coal is one of the
:29:55. > :30:02.most dangerous things that you can do. The changes to our atmosphere
:30:02. > :30:07.with carbon dioxide and wars in the Middle East and theft of money,
:30:07. > :30:11.corruption in all parts of the world, some of them in the early
:30:11. > :30:14.days in the United States and then in later days in Russia and the
:30:14. > :30:18.in later days in Russia and the Middle East. A lot of people
:30:18. > :30:27.concentrating at the moment on shale gas, practising for shale gas S that
:30:28. > :30:32.gas, practising for shale gas S that the answer? It is an answer. But
:30:32. > :30:41.fracking is a good thing to do. It can be done very safely and very
:30:41. > :30:46.cleanly. It is not new. In my book, I make the point it was invented by
:30:46. > :30:51.the Colonel Roberts Torpedo Company after the American civil war. It
:30:51. > :30:54.involves putting water and sand at high pressure into rocks and making
:30:54. > :30:59.holes in the rocks and allowing whatever is in the rocks to flow
:30:59. > :31:03.out. In the case of the United States, that's natural gas. Mostly
:31:03. > :31:08.natural gas which made a revolution in the energy mix of the US.
:31:08. > :31:11.But it transformed fortunes for the US, hasn't it? Current production
:31:11. > :31:16.levels they have a century's worth of supply. That couldn't happen
:31:16. > :31:23.here, could it? We don't know. It is too early to tell. What is clear is
:31:23. > :31:27.there is plenty of gas locked up in shale in the UK. Certainly up in
:31:27. > :31:32.near Blackpool. There is plenty of gas like that. How much we can
:31:32. > :31:37.produce remains to be seen. I think quite a bit of it it can and it will
:31:37. > :31:40.be good. It will reduce our balance of payments. It will add jobs. Do
:31:40. > :31:45.all these things. But we are a very different country
:31:45. > :31:49.to America. We have less space and we are packed in in this country and
:31:49. > :31:53.there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of fracking? There is
:31:53. > :31:58.no idea it can be done safely, but the communities and the population
:31:58. > :32:02.remain to be persuaded and remain to be shown that it can be done to the
:32:02. > :32:10.benefit for their benefit and for the benefit of everybody else.
:32:10. > :32:15.You say there is no magic button when it comes to energy. You talk
:32:15. > :32:20.about uranium in your book. In terms of nuclear energy, something you are
:32:20. > :32:25.nervous about? The problem with nuclear power and uranium, it is
:32:25. > :32:29.great if it works, but there is a dread in people's minds that one
:32:29. > :32:36.small chance of an accident occurring, it can be catastrophic
:32:36. > :32:42.and people hark back to the use of uranium in bombs. In atomic bombs
:32:42. > :32:49.and nuclear bombs starting with her rosh ma which is the definition of
:32:49. > :32:53.the modern age in some ways. What has this country got to do to
:32:53. > :32:58.stop us running out of energy supplies? Don't pick a winner too
:32:58. > :33:04.early. Many people are prone to sailing "policy is about making
:33:04. > :33:08.choices. Let's go for nuclear. Let's abandon oil. Let's abandon
:33:08. > :33:12.something". It is too early to tell. You have got to let all the horses
:33:12. > :33:17.run at once. You have got to make the choices on economics and the
:33:17. > :33:21.true cost, the cost of pollution and the cost of carbon and the cost of
:33:21. > :33:26.setting right the interruption to the landscape that takes place when
:33:26. > :33:30.you make something or do something. So it will be a mix of renewables,
:33:30. > :33:34.of nuclear, of gas, I hope, gas should make a big crown courts and
:33:34. > :33:38.of oil and of biomass, all of the above.
:33:38. > :33:42.You keep seeing headlines of how Britain is in danger of the lights
:33:42. > :33:46.going out. Do you think that's true? Are we close to running out of
:33:46. > :33:50.energy? No. I think it is a statement of if we don't do
:33:50. > :33:55.something then in the future we will probably run out of energy, but
:33:55. > :33:59.there is sometime, we need to get on and we need to make sure that we
:33:59. > :34:05.absorb all the changes that are taking a place in the world. After
:34:05. > :34:10.all, five years ago gas from shale in the United States was very small,
:34:10. > :34:14.indeed and five years ago, we thought we were going to run out of
:34:15. > :34:20.oil in the world. That's not true. We will never run out of oil in a
:34:20. > :34:25.sensible, reasonable way and neither gas. So things change quickly. We
:34:25. > :34:32.need to recognise those changes in thinking about what we do.
:34:32. > :34:39.Lord Browne, thank you very much. Lord Browne speaking to Sophie
:34:39. > :34:45.Raworth. One of the most talked about dramas on TV a has been The
:34:45. > :34:49.Politician's Husband. It stars David Tennant who walks out of Government
:34:49. > :34:58.in order to bid for the leadership. He expects his closest friend and
:34:58. > :35:04.ally to follow him and help seize the crown, but he is double crossed.
:35:04. > :35:10.Well, Ed Stoppard is here. First, a of the action.
:35:10. > :35:19.Well, let's take long, I am due at Number Ten. The reception for Putin.
:35:19. > :35:25.Is that your reward, is it? How was it again? Bruce, resign. I will be
:35:25. > :35:30.in Number Ten by the recess, you said. He who wields the knife never
:35:30. > :35:34.wears the crown. Heseltine learned that lesson.
:35:35. > :35:38.It wasn't me who wielded the knife, was it in? Did you do any
:35:38. > :35:43.preparation for this are part by talking to politicians and coming to
:35:43. > :35:53.Westminster? I did do some preparation. I was in the rather
:35:53. > :35:54.
:35:54. > :36:04.privileged position of having a politician in my family who was Oona
:36:04. > :36:04.
:36:04. > :36:09.King and I did collar Oona and it was mainly to try and get an
:36:10. > :36:17.impression of how things worked behind closed doors and what the
:36:17. > :36:24.kind of pat woir is and the protocol is to try and bring veracity to
:36:24. > :36:30.those scenes that we, the public, are never privy to. She wrote some
:36:30. > :36:35.diaries, a couple of years ago, if I may plug them for a brief moment?
:36:35. > :36:41.There is a passage where she recounts being called in to speak to
:36:41. > :36:49.Alastair Campbell and two others. It would have been Angie Hunt Huntary
:36:49. > :36:54.it was when -- Hunter and it was Ken was going to run for mayor and they
:36:54. > :37:04.wanted wanted her to write this piece in the paper saying that Ken
:37:04. > :37:06.
:37:06. > :37:13.would be terrible for mayor. Campbell said - sct has killed my
:37:13. > :37:17.career?" Campbell said, " No, it put it back five years." You think a
:37:17. > :37:21.drama like The Politician's Husband bears a resemblance to reality?
:37:21. > :37:24.Well, we are sitting here on a morning when the Tories are about to
:37:24. > :37:28.vote against their own Queen's Speech if I have understood what
:37:28. > :37:35.happened. So this is one of those cases where fact is stranger than
:37:35. > :37:41.fiction, I think. It is a few weeks since Chris Huhne, expenses scandal
:37:41. > :37:44.etcetera, etcetera, so yes, I strongly suspect that it does bear a
:37:44. > :37:47.resemblance to what really happens in Westminster.
:37:47. > :37:52.But do you think that politics is a different form of drama? Or do you
:37:52. > :37:56.think that the power play, the ambition, the intrigue, the ambition
:37:56. > :38:00.could be just as well set in a bank or a hospital or a shop or do you
:38:00. > :38:09.think there is something different about politics? Possibly. I mean I
:38:09. > :38:13.assume that most politicians get into that game to have influence and
:38:13. > :38:17.sometimes it is a ben in evidence lant influence and I am sure there
:38:17. > :38:26.are some who get in for the thrill of being able to move the pieces
:38:26. > :38:32.around, you know, the global map and... But you guys are terrible
:38:32. > :38:37.schemers. Do you think watching a drama... Are you talking about
:38:37. > :38:46.actors or politicians? You tell me. Do you not think it turns people off
:38:46. > :38:50.politics if you have these things like House Of Cards? The politicians
:38:50. > :38:58.have been doing a descent job of that on their own without any help
:38:58. > :39:05.from the actors and writers of drama. To be honest, you know, in
:39:05. > :39:09.some respects it would be well, I am speaking off-the-cuff here. I need
:39:09. > :39:12.to be slightly careful. It would be a good idea if the public could see
:39:12. > :39:20.what happens behind closed doors because Australia we get is that
:39:20. > :39:27.kind of -- all we get is that pre-packaged soundbite. We get the
:39:27. > :39:32.platitudes and one of the reasons Far aJ is so popular -- Farage is so
:39:32. > :39:39.popular, he is one thing or the other rather than people huddling on
:39:39. > :39:45.this middle ground and the public respond to polarized positions.
:39:45. > :39:49.Many people will know you from your role in Upstairs Downstairs. Yes.
:39:49. > :39:56.You must have been asked this before. Why do you think it didn't
:39:56. > :40:00.work as well as Downton? What was the missing ingredient? I don't
:40:00. > :40:06.know. I would maybe take issue with your question. I suppose if you
:40:06. > :40:12.simply look at it in terms of how many people watch it then it didn't
:40:12. > :40:19.work as well Downton Abbey, but anything on BBC Four by definition
:40:19. > :40:23.doesn't work as well Downtonu but there are different criteria.
:40:23. > :40:32.But you were happy with it? I was happy with it and sad not to do
:40:32. > :40:40.anymore. We had a fantastic time making it. Hey, hey-ho.
:40:40. > :40:48.S Now the,ed, Education Secretary Michael Gove is learning to play the
:40:48. > :40:53.uk lAly and -- ukulele. He introduced new free schools and
:40:53. > :40:58.hundreds of academies and modular exams are outed You out and the
:40:58. > :41:01.three Rs are in. The teaching unions and some leading academics are
:41:01. > :41:06.unhappy. Well, Michael Gove is with me now. Good morning.
:41:06. > :41:11.Good morning, James. You have made progress in reforming
:41:11. > :41:14.schools giving them more autonomy as academies, but you made less
:41:14. > :41:18.progress reforming exams and the National Curriculum. What's the
:41:18. > :41:23.problem? Why is it taking a so long? Well, we wanted to make sure that
:41:23. > :41:26.the first thing we did when we came into power was to give teachers more
:41:26. > :41:29.power, control and influence over what happens in their classrooms and
:41:29. > :41:33.over the discipline methods they could use in order to keep order and
:41:33. > :41:36.then we moved on to the whole question of how those extra freedoms
:41:37. > :41:40.would be seen in a context of accountability and that's why we had
:41:40. > :41:44.to change the curriculum and we had to change exams. But one of the
:41:44. > :41:47.things that struck me is in the same way as there has been popularity for
:41:47. > :41:50.the structural changes we made, academies and free schools with
:41:50. > :41:53.teachers in the lead, some of the people who have been most
:41:53. > :41:56.enthusiastic about the changes we are making to the it curriculum and
:41:56. > :42:02.to exams have been teachers and academics themselves.
:42:02. > :42:10.You have got unstuck in some of these areas. In exams you wanted to
:42:10. > :42:17.bring back officials and C SEs and that -- O-levels and C SEs and you
:42:17. > :42:21.are back to your third best option of reforming GCSEs. You know, is
:42:21. > :42:25.this really going to be enough to create the world-class exam system
:42:25. > :42:29.that you promised in this week's Queen's Speech? I think it will be'
:42:29. > :42:37.significant step forward -- I think it will be a significant step
:42:37. > :42:40.forward towards a world-class exam system. I wanted to move to just one
:42:40. > :42:43.exam board because I thought that would be a way of preventing the
:42:43. > :42:48.race to the bottom. I had to accept that wasn't the right thing to do.
:42:48. > :42:52.But we are making big changes. You are right. We are getting rid of
:42:52. > :42:57.modules and resits. We have less time on assessment and driving
:42:57. > :43:00.people through the sheep pen of all these tests and actually, what has
:43:00. > :43:04.been interesting is that while you might say the changes are modest and
:43:04. > :43:07.I think they are reasonable, there are still lots of people, on the
:43:07. > :43:11.hard left and in the trade unions who are making a hell of a noise
:43:11. > :43:16.about it. So it is not without controversy. And it is also the case
:43:16. > :43:21.and this is the most cheering thing for me that you have got people like
:43:21. > :43:25.Mark Warner, the Cambridge physics professor writing in the Sunday
:43:25. > :43:30.Times saying three cheers for what the Government are doing. At last
:43:30. > :43:37.they restoring rigour to our exams. Well, let's look at your other
:43:37. > :43:43.changes to the national curriculum. A pub quiz list of facts, to
:43:43. > :43:49.chronological, too un unanalytical. Are you going to take account of
:43:49. > :43:52.these criticisms? I couldn't take account of all the criticisms. But I
:43:53. > :43:57.will take account from people I respect. While there have been one
:43:57. > :44:03.or two academics, Richard Evans at Cambridge, there has been... One or
:44:03. > :44:09.two? Yeah, one or two. Many letters to the Observer. Even
:44:09. > :44:13.people like Simon Sharma? Simon Sharma says the central change we
:44:13. > :44:17.are making, giving people an understanding of the chronology of
:44:17. > :44:22.these islands is the right thing to do. And there were letters to the
:44:22. > :44:25.Times and there was support from some of the most distinguished
:44:25. > :44:30.historians saying we were doing the right thing and taepers I have
:44:30. > :44:33.talked to are -- teachers I have talked to are enthusiastic and it is
:44:33. > :44:36.striking some of the people who were most in despair about the old
:44:36. > :44:40.history curriculum want me to change. I was drawing attention to
:44:40. > :44:45.the fact that 15 and 16-year-olds are being taught about the rise of
:44:45. > :44:48.Hitler which is the area where you Richard Evans made his own by using
:44:48. > :44:52.Mr Men. What's one website somewhere.
:44:52. > :44:56.critical is thing is the reason I raised that is because a teacher
:44:56. > :44:59.brought did to my attention. This is a popular resource being used in
:44:59. > :45:03.classrooms and it is often the case that people portray this argument as
:45:03. > :45:06.the minister versus teachers. In fact, what we have are teachers who
:45:06. > :45:10.are passionate about raising standards, at last feeling there is
:45:10. > :45:16.a Government on our side and I want to back those people in our schools,
:45:16. > :45:20.a growing number of young teachers who want to raise standards.
:45:20. > :45:24.There is balance between knowledge and analysis. Children need to be
:45:24. > :45:30.taught both and what the critics are saying you have gone too much down
:45:30. > :45:34.the learning by facts route, but you are not giving kids enough research
:45:34. > :45:44.skills, analytical skills in this curriculum, it is too much about
:45:44. > :45:45.
:45:45. > :45:54.British heroes and heroines. Your curriculum talks about the
:45:54. > :46:01.enlightlement and is it too British? The current history curriculum
:46:01. > :46:06.doesn't have anything about these French figures. It provides people
:46:06. > :46:10.with a level of historical knowledge that is just not adequate. To then
:46:10. > :46:15.go on to use the analytical skills that both of us want to see. You
:46:15. > :46:23.cannot use them and you cannot write a proper history lesson unless you
:46:23. > :46:28.understand the chronology, facts and. You can do it in science unless
:46:28. > :46:34.you have an understand of the basic principles that underspin it.
:46:34. > :46:38.witch you gave a speech saying 17-year-old girls should read
:46:38. > :46:43.Middlemarsh and not Twie scoot light. What right do you have to say
:46:43. > :46:46.that I think I have every right to say we have to raise standards. I
:46:46. > :46:50.personally believe if children are reading anything, it is a good thing
:46:50. > :46:55.but we shouldn't settle for children reading merely fiction that is
:46:55. > :46:58.assumed to be revented to them today or easy to access. -- relevant. We
:46:58. > :47:05.should demand high standards of every child. One of the problems we
:47:05. > :47:10.have had in the past if there is an assumption that books like
:47:10. > :47:15.Middlemarch or plays like Shakespeare for books by yenchts ate
:47:15. > :47:19.s are for a minority. I know from my background that children from humble
:47:19. > :47:24.homes, when they are given the chance to understand the power of
:47:24. > :47:29.great literature or the wrenching power of great music, they respond.
:47:29. > :47:34.And the dumbed down curriculum has assumed children can only be treated
:47:34. > :47:39.as if they are infants even to 15 or 16. I want to prepare them for the
:47:39. > :47:42.adult world by introducing them to greatness. Childcare. Are you going
:47:42. > :47:47.to increase the number of children that nursery staff and childminders
:47:47. > :47:51.can look after, or what? Ye, I believe Liz Truss's proposals are
:47:51. > :47:55.right. It will mean, I believe that the costs of childcare will go down.
:47:55. > :47:58.It'll also mean that the quality of the experience that children receive
:47:58. > :48:02.will improve because we will have more highly-qualified people. At the
:48:02. > :48:05.moment we have a problem with childcare, not just cost. It is the
:48:06. > :48:09.case there are many children who are in preschool situations who arrive
:48:09. > :48:13.at primary school without the necessary skills required to hit the
:48:13. > :48:17.ground running and to start learning. But, the Deputy Prime
:48:17. > :48:20.Minister, Nick Clegg has made it clear that he is deeply concerned
:48:20. > :48:25.about this, not least because the consultation that happened raised a
:48:25. > :48:29.lot of concerns? Yes, it raised a number of issues. There are some
:48:29. > :48:33.people who are concerned and there are other people like Sir Martin
:48:33. > :48:36.neary, the head of Barnardo's, who are passionately in favour of these
:48:37. > :48:40.changes. I don't think we can understand Nick Clegg's position
:48:40. > :48:43.without also appreciating the position that he is in because of
:48:43. > :48:47.internal Liberal Democrat politics. So he is not going to get his way
:48:47. > :48:51.Well, I think one of the things he has to do is he has to show because
:48:51. > :48:55.- there is a campaign at the moment being led by Matthew Oakeshott, this
:48:55. > :48:58.Liberal Democrat in the Lords to destabilised Nick Clegg because he
:48:58. > :49:01.wants Vince Cable to succeed him. There are various stories in the
:49:01. > :49:04.newspapers today. Nick understandably needs to show Liberal
:49:04. > :49:08.Democrats he is fighting hard. I understand. That is one of the
:49:08. > :49:12.things that happens in coalition. We've had discussions with Nick in
:49:12. > :49:16.the past where we haven't always had the same starting position, but in
:49:16. > :49:20.the end, because he is a reasonable guy, we have found an appropriate
:49:20. > :49:26.way forward. I think he will understand the logic Liz wants to
:49:26. > :49:30.achieve is formidable. And if there has to be an adjustment to make it
:49:30. > :49:33.work for everyone, we'll listen to that. You are suggesting internal
:49:33. > :49:37.Liberal Democrat politics and an attempt to destabilise Nick Clegg,
:49:37. > :49:41.is determining policy about how children are cared for this noe this
:49:41. > :49:45.country? I -- in this country? I think we have to acknowledge, you
:49:45. > :49:48.only have to look at the newspapers today that Lord Oakeshott is on
:49:48. > :49:52.manoeuvres, trying to promote Vince. It is understandable within the
:49:52. > :49:56.Liberal Democrats that these things go on. Nick has to show a bit of
:49:56. > :49:59.leg, as it were, on these issues but we have seen these situations arise
:49:59. > :50:02.and we have managed to resolve them in the national interest. I think it
:50:02. > :50:06.is only appropriate that we have an opportunity, over the next week or
:50:06. > :50:10.two, to ensure that the logic behind Liz's position, and any concerns
:50:10. > :50:13.that have been raised, can be reconciled, so we can have a
:50:13. > :50:18.situation where children get the care and attention they need in
:50:18. > :50:23.order to arrive at school, ready to learn. I can't wait to find out what
:50:23. > :50:27.happens at the next Cabinet meet, with you sitting opposite Mr
:50:27. > :50:34.Colleague. Well I was going to say -- Mr Clegg. Well I was going to say
:50:34. > :50:37.the Khan net remains a confidential -- say the Cabinet remains a
:50:37. > :50:40.confidential space where we can argue our positions. Many of your
:50:40. > :50:43.colleagues have said they want a little piece of your budget. Do you
:50:44. > :50:47.accept that education will have to share a bit more of the pain?
:50:47. > :50:51.think it's absolutely right that all Government departments should look
:50:51. > :50:54.at the bottom line and try to find savings and efficiencies and we
:50:54. > :50:57.have. But I think it is also important that we make sure that the
:50:57. > :51:01.money that goes direct to schools and, in particular, the pupil
:51:01. > :51:06.premium that helps the most disadvantaged children s protected.
:51:06. > :51:11.But, you might accept a little bit of flexibility, I suspect? There are
:51:11. > :51:16.some areas outside the core schools' budget where I think we can accept
:51:16. > :51:19.we may need to accept negotiation reductions. We are -- accept
:51:19. > :51:23.reductions. I'm in negotiations with the Treasury. I will not show my
:51:23. > :51:28.hand yet. But we have to protect spending for schools and spending
:51:28. > :51:30.for the most disadvantaged children, a and make sure it is insulated from
:51:30. > :51:34.the necessary economies we need to make as a result of the economic
:51:34. > :51:38.situation we inherited. How has the Government got itself into a muddle
:51:38. > :51:42.over Europe and how are you going to vote this week? I saw some of the
:51:42. > :51:46.headlines today saying civil war and turmoil. You can't have a civil war
:51:46. > :51:50.when everyone is on the same side. Fundamentally the overwhelming
:51:50. > :51:54.majority of Conservative MPs would like a different relationship with
:51:54. > :51:59.Britain and Europe I emphaticically want a different relationship. We
:51:59. > :52:08.used to work on the Times, you were a majestic reporter, I was a column
:52:08. > :52:11.writer. Iville fought for 15 years for a difference in the relationship
:52:11. > :52:15.between Britain and Europe. But I think we need to sport Prime
:52:15. > :52:18.Minister and then put it to a referendum. Some of my colleagues
:52:18. > :52:22.are exuberant and want to let off steam. My view is let the Prime
:52:22. > :52:25.Minister lay out on a negotiation platform and make sure he has a
:52:25. > :52:29.majority, which I'm convinced he will secure at the next election,
:52:29. > :52:31.and let's have the referendum then. Last soect you were quoted by
:52:31. > :52:36.friends saying -- last October, you were quoted by friends saying if
:52:36. > :52:42.there was a referendum you would vote to leave the EU. Do you still
:52:42. > :52:46.believe that? I'm not happy with our situation in Europe but my
:52:46. > :52:49.preference is for a change with the relationship. My ideal is to
:52:49. > :52:54.recognise the current situation is no good, to say that life outside
:52:54. > :52:59.would be perfectly tolerable, we could contemplate it and there would
:52:59. > :53:05.be certain vaks. But the best deal -- certain advantages. But the best
:53:05. > :53:08.deal for Europe would be to make the change Britain needs. We have a
:53:08. > :53:12.situation in Spain where more than 50% of people are unemployed. If we
:53:12. > :53:17.are going to transform Europe's economy and Britain's economy in all
:53:17. > :53:21.our interests, we should follow the path laid out from the Prime
:53:21. > :53:24.Minister's speech. How will you vote? I'm going to abstain. I
:53:24. > :53:28.believe while we need a referendum, it is not appropriate at this stage.
:53:28. > :53:37.And also, in a way, it is an exercise, as I said earlier, in
:53:37. > :53:41.letting off steam. We haven't a are referendum, -- we can't have a
:53:41. > :53:45.referendum bill because we are in coalition. You can have
:53:45. > :53:48.disagreements but you mustn't turn them into dramas. That
:53:48. > :53:52.misunderstands the way, after next week's vote, the Coalition
:53:52. > :53:56.Government will still be working together to reduce the deficit,
:53:56. > :54:00.improve schools, and enhance the NHS. Michael Gove, the abstaining
:54:00. > :54:08.Cabinet minister. Now the news headlines.
:54:08. > :54:12.More than 100 Conservative MPs are said to be ready to sporan amendment
:54:12. > :54:16.to the Queen's Speech -- support an amendment.
:54:16. > :54:19.A free vote will take place in the Commons this week. The education
:54:19. > :54:23.Michael Gove, confirmed to this programme, that if a referendum were
:54:23. > :54:27.to take place now, he would vote to leave the EU.
:54:27. > :54:31.A group of leading nurses says lives are being put at risk because of low
:54:31. > :54:34.levels of staff at hospitals in England. Researchers have found that
:54:34. > :54:38.more patients die on wards when nurses look after eight or more
:54:38. > :54:40.patients. The Safe Staffing Alliance, which includes the Royal
:54:40. > :54:46.College of Nursing, the Patients' Association, and Unison, is now
:54:46. > :54:50.calling for a national minimum ratio for nursing staff. The Government
:54:50. > :54:53.says it is up for hospitals to decide how many they employ.
:54:54. > :54:56.In Pakistan, unofficial election results show that the former Prime
:54:56. > :55:01.Minister, Nawaz Sharif, is heading for victory following Saturday's
:55:01. > :55:07.elections. The party of the former cricket star, Imran Khan is emerging
:55:07. > :55:12.as the second-largest. Voter turnout has been put at nearly 60%, the
:55:12. > :55:16.highest in the country no more than 30 years. Votes are still being
:55:16. > :55:20.counted but it'll be highly significant as it marks Pakistan's
:55:20. > :55:23.transflings one civilian government to another. -- transition from.
:55:23. > :55:29.That's all for now. Back to James in a moment but first
:55:29. > :55:32.here is what is coming up. Join us at 10.00am, we will have
:55:32. > :55:36.former ministers, aid workers and sceptics lined up to argue about
:55:36. > :55:39.foreign aid. Then after the horrors of the Cleveland kidnapping, should
:55:39. > :55:45.we all keep an eye on the neighbours. And last for some,
:55:45. > :55:50.perhaps, heaven. See you at 10.00am. Now, as we promised you, we would
:55:50. > :55:54.end with something uplifting, and that's what the Soul Rebels deliver.
:55:54. > :55:59.They are a New Orleans-based brass band who mix traditional jazz with a
:55:59. > :56:02.smaterring of hip-hop and raw energy. They play at festivals and
:56:02. > :56:05.clubs and come party time they play their music in the street. They have
:56:05. > :56:09.arrived in Europe from New Orleans and they are right here. Good
:56:09. > :56:13.morning to you all. How are you doing? Tell us, where have you been?
:56:13. > :56:16.Where are you going to? We are bringing to a culmination a
:56:16. > :56:24.beautiful tour we've had over here. We have been to Ireland. We have
:56:24. > :56:29.been to France and now we are wrapping it up here tonight. We will
:56:29. > :56:35.be at a festival at 8.00pm. What we want to emphasise is we are coming
:56:35. > :56:41.back here in July for the Love Supreme Fest. That is going to be a
:56:41. > :56:45.gas. You can check us outing on our website and get the information.
:56:45. > :56:49.think of traditional brass bands as very traditional. You are not.
:56:49. > :56:53.we are different. We have tried to make it a legitimate urban stage
:56:53. > :57:00.act, on the level of Michael Jackson. We are no way near on his
:57:00. > :57:05.level. That's what we strive to be. Well we are almost out of time. My
:57:05. > :57:08.colleague, Jeremy Vine will be here next Sunday as well as a host of top