:00:02. > :00:07.Minister as a Tory grandee Lord Howe says he is losing control of
:00:07. > :00:13.the party over Europe. The Governor of the Bank of England warns about
:00:13. > :00:16.the dangers of trying to boost the housing market. Imran Khan accuses
:00:16. > :00:23.his political rivals of murder after a senior member of his party
:00:23. > :00:32.is shot dead in Pakistan. Also, coming up: The winner takes it all
:00:32. > :00:37.- victory for Denmark at Eurovision. Emmelie de Forest comes top, with
:00:37. > :00:39.Britain's Bonnie Tyler finishing 19th. And, tears from David Beckham
:00:39. > :00:46.Europe and the Conservatives, said one commentator, are like the front
:00:46. > :00:52.as he completes the final home game door bell and my dog. If anyone
:00:52. > :00:55.hits the bell, the dog just goes mad. Is that what's happening
:00:55. > :00:58.inside the Tory party - they just can't help themselves?
:00:58. > :01:00.There's loads of it in the Sunday papers today, and the man who first
:01:00. > :01:02.made that dog-and-doorbell comparison is here, David
:01:02. > :01:04.Aaronovitch, Times columnist, alongside Isabel Hardman of The
:01:04. > :01:06.of his 20 year career. Good morning Spectator.
:01:06. > :01:07.Even before the disastrous Eurovision result, the
:01:07. > :01:08.and welcome to BBC News. The former Conservative Chancellor Lord Howe
:01:08. > :01:10.Conservatives were in one of those fevers about our continental
:01:10. > :01:12.has said that David Cameron is cousins. It seems the EU issue just
:01:12. > :01:15.losing control of the Conservative party because of what he calls the
:01:15. > :01:17.Tories long nervous breakdown over won't go away. The row over whether
:01:17. > :01:18.Europe. Writing in the Observer, he the country should have an in-out
:01:18. > :01:19.warns that if a proposed referendum referendum even followed David
:01:19. > :01:21.leads to Britain leaving the EU, Cameron into the White House this
:01:21. > :01:31.the country would lose influence week. So one of his closest allies
:01:31. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :01:39.joins us. But can the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, steady the
:01:39. > :01:42.ship? The last close ally of the Prime Minister we had in said he
:01:42. > :01:44.might vote to leave the EU. So how would the Health Secretary bind his
:01:44. > :01:47.party's wounds? Conservatives wouldn't expect
:01:47. > :01:50.helpful advice from our next guest, but Peter Mandelson wants to give
:01:50. > :01:52.some to Mr Cameron anyway. He says, fight back against the eurosceptics
:01:52. > :01:55.or risk damaging the UK. Lord Mandelson talks Europe and Labour.
:01:55. > :01:57.I'll also be joined by the prominent right-winger, long-time
:01:57. > :02:03.Conservative MP, John Redwood, who's opposition to the EU is
:02:03. > :02:06.definitely not news. We'll ask him if this is the eurosceptics moment,
:02:06. > :02:09.when they and UKIP, can shift Mr Cameron to the right. Jonathan
:02:09. > :02:11.Miller encompasses so much that is great about British culture. From
:02:11. > :02:15.his earliest days as a writer alongside Alan Bennett and Peter
:02:15. > :02:18.Cook, he helped capture the irreverence of the 60s. Since then
:02:18. > :02:21.he's been involved in almost every aspect of the arts imaginable and
:02:21. > :02:27.is here to discuss his latest directorial outing, a ground-
:02:27. > :02:31.breaking play by a forgotten woman writer. Plus there's music from
:02:31. > :02:41.California. Some sunny West Coast sounds to brighten up a fairly
:02:41. > :02:49.miserable month of May. The Allah- Las.
:02:49. > :02:58.# Tell me what is on your mind. A All that and more coming up. First,
:02:58. > :03:00.the news with Naga Munchetty. Good morning.
:03:00. > :03:03.The former Conservative Cabinet minister, Lord Howe, has said David
:03:03. > :03:06.Cameron seems to be losing control of his party over Europe. Writing
:03:06. > :03:09.in the Observer, Lord Howe warns that if a proposed referendum leads
:03:09. > :03:15.to Britain leaving the EU, there would be dire consequences for the
:03:15. > :03:20.country's global influence. David Cameron says he will hold a
:03:20. > :03:25.referendum on Britain's ownership of the EU in 2017 if he is still
:03:25. > :03:28.the Prime Minister. But he has been criticised by two former
:03:29. > :03:33.chancellors. Lord Lawson told David Cameron he thought it would be
:03:33. > :03:38.better to leave the EU entirely. Now his old Cabinet colleague, Lord
:03:38. > :03:43.Geoffrey Howe is giving the opposite advice. In the Observer
:03:43. > :03:48.newspaper, he accuses David Cameron of opening a Pandora's's box by
:03:48. > :03:54.attempting to bring powers back to Britain from Brussels. He said the
:03:54. > :04:02.Conservative leadership is running scared of its backbenchers and a
:04:02. > :04:08.deep anti-Europeanism has affected the soul of the party.
:04:08. > :04:13.If the result of such a referendum was to suggest our detachment from
:04:13. > :04:17.the EU, it would be of grave effect. Our presence there gives us
:04:17. > :04:24.influence throughout the world. When Lord Howe left the Cabinet he
:04:24. > :04:29.started a chain of a venture which led to Lady Thatcher's downfall.
:04:29. > :04:33.But he is not suggesting a change of leader and now, just a change of
:04:33. > :04:36.course. The governor of the Bank of England,
:04:36. > :04:39.Sir Mervyn King, has issued a warning about the Chancellor's plan
:04:39. > :04:42.to boost the housing market. He told Sky News that the Help to Buy
:04:42. > :04:45.scheme is "too close for comfort" to a general state guarantee for
:04:45. > :04:48.mortgages, and should not continue indefinitely. The Government says
:04:48. > :04:56.the plan, announced by George Osborne in March, will run for
:04:56. > :05:00.three years. It is rare for a Bank of England
:05:00. > :05:03.governor to publicly criticise Government policy. But Mervyn King,
:05:03. > :05:12.six weeks from retirement felt the need to do so on this issue at
:05:12. > :05:16.least. The subject of his concern is for help to buy scheme announced
:05:16. > :05:22.in last March's budget and designed to get housebuilding off its knees
:05:22. > :05:27.by allowing the Treasury to stand over some types of private mortgage
:05:27. > :05:31.lending from January. Sir Mervyn King sends it is turning the
:05:31. > :05:36.Government into prominent players in the property market. I am sure
:05:36. > :05:40.there is no place in the long run for this scheme. It is too close to
:05:40. > :05:47.comfort for a general scheme to guarantee mortgages. We have a
:05:47. > :05:51.healthy mortgage market before the crisis, we need to get back to that.
:05:51. > :05:56.The Government is keen to stress that this scheme is temporary and
:05:56. > :06:02.aimed at stoking up housebuilding and aimed to help homebuyers
:06:02. > :06:07.prevented from getting on or moving up the property ladder now for
:06:07. > :06:11.deposits. The Treasury says it is relaxed at these comments, possibly
:06:11. > :06:14.cars so Mervyn King will only be in the job for another month. From
:06:15. > :06:19.July, another man will be deciding monetary policy, and who knows
:06:19. > :06:22.whether he likes the scheme or not. In Pakistan, a senior female
:06:22. > :06:26.politician has been shot dead outside her home in the city of
:06:26. > :06:30.Karachi. Zahra Shahid Hussain was a member of the former cricket star,
:06:30. > :06:37.Imran Khan's Movement for Justice party. Mr Khan blamed a rival party,
:06:37. > :06:39.the MQM, which has denied any involvement.
:06:39. > :06:42.The Government faces a further attack from headteachers today as
:06:43. > :06:45.union leaders urge them to ditch the new curriculum. Yesterday the
:06:45. > :06:48.Education Secretary, Michael Gove, was heckled and jeered while
:06:48. > :06:50.addressing their annual conference in Birmingham. Earlier the
:06:50. > :06:54.conference passed a motion of no confidence in the Government's
:06:54. > :06:57.education policies. David Beckham said a tearful
:06:57. > :07:02.goodbye to professional football last night in what's likely to be
:07:02. > :07:05.his last game after a 22-year career. In honour of his retirement,
:07:05. > :07:10.the 38-year-old was made captain for the final home match of the
:07:10. > :07:14.season at Paris St-Germain. He was given a standing ovation as he left
:07:14. > :07:22.the field. That's all from me, for now. I'll
:07:22. > :07:25.be back with the headlines just before 10:00am. Back to you, Jeremy.
:07:25. > :07:27.Now, Downing Street has strenuously denied reports that an ally of
:07:27. > :07:31.David Cameron referred to Tory activists as mad, swivel-eyed,
:07:31. > :07:34.loons. The remarks are alleged to have been made at a private dinner.
:07:34. > :07:37.The individual was quoted as saying that Conservative MPs who have
:07:37. > :07:42.taken a hard line position on Europe, as well as equal marriage,
:07:42. > :07:44.have only done so under pressure from local party associations. I'm
:07:44. > :07:54.joined now by the leading eurosceptic Conservative MP, John
:07:54. > :07:58.Redwood. Good morning. What exactly do you want on Europe? We want the
:07:58. > :08:04.new relationship which the Prime Minister started to set out in the
:08:04. > :08:08.Bloomberg speech. A large number of Conservative Party MPs has said
:08:08. > :08:13.there is too much central power over us from central Brussels.
:08:13. > :08:16.was a speech at the beginning of the year? Yes, he moved the policy
:08:16. > :08:22.in the direction we want. The Government cannot control our
:08:23. > :08:27.borders, cannot make decisions it ones on welfare eligibility. Cannot
:08:27. > :08:32.decide who it can extradite, cannot sort out energy policy problems
:08:32. > :08:37.because Brussels makes these decisions. Her as you push the
:08:37. > :08:44.Prime Minister, you want him to offer an in-out referendum by the
:08:44. > :08:47.next election, or the one coming? We are happy with the policy of at
:08:47. > :08:51.negotiating and his side. We want this in your relationship and to
:08:51. > :08:57.make sure the new relationship is a good one, that most British people
:08:57. > :09:01.can accept, it has to be put to the British people. So you feel at the
:09:01. > :09:06.moment you have not seen the flavour of his negotiating position,
:09:06. > :09:13.is that right? No, we haven't and it is early days. What we want him
:09:13. > :09:18.to do now is get on with that and a glaciation. We believe the new
:09:18. > :09:22.relation must be based on trade. The Conservative Party has been a
:09:22. > :09:28.very united party on Europe since about 2000, because we were very
:09:28. > :09:34.happy in opposing the knees treaty in the House of Commons, the
:09:34. > :09:38.Amsterdam treaty, and we voted against the Lisbon Treaty. Now
:09:38. > :09:41.Conservatives hold ministerial positions it does not mean the
:09:41. > :09:45.Conservative Party accepts those treaties. They were wrong and took
:09:45. > :09:51.power away from our country. People are trying to understand where this
:09:51. > :09:56.has blown up from. It seems to be the local elections, you suddenly
:09:56. > :10:01.see 23% of the local vote going to UKIP and now you are panicking?
:10:01. > :10:05.is not that at all. We tabled a proposal to have an early
:10:05. > :10:10.referendum than the Prime Minister wanted, and 100 colleagues were
:10:10. > :10:16.either in support or abstained against the whip. We went to the
:10:16. > :10:21.Prime Minister privately and helped him with the Bloomberg speech. Now
:10:21. > :10:25.we wish to get on with it. This won't wait, because we need to sort
:10:25. > :10:31.out welfare, we need to sort out the borders, migration flows, we
:10:31. > :10:34.need to sort out energy, to name but a few. All of those things puts
:10:34. > :10:38.ministers in a position where they cannot do what they need to do
:10:38. > :10:44.because the European Union won't let them. When you say this won't
:10:44. > :10:48.wait, it sounds as if you are threatening the Prime Minister?
:10:48. > :10:52.welcomed his Bloomberg speech, I welcomed the new relationship he is
:10:52. > :10:58.seeking, I wish to help him create that. He has a united party be and
:10:58. > :11:04.the idea of a unit that -- me goes into a relationship. It is only the
:11:04. > :11:09.BBC who thinks that the Conservative Party is fighting back.
:11:09. > :11:11.We are completely united behind a Prime Minister in St the current
:11:12. > :11:19.relationship is wrong for Britain and we want the new relationship
:11:19. > :11:23.based on trade. If you are united, why did someone close to the Prime
:11:23. > :11:29.Minister say that Conservatives and the local party are mad, swivel-
:11:29. > :11:33.eyed lose. That has been strenuously denied. If there is
:11:33. > :11:38.such a person, not named of course, then they should be reprimanded.
:11:38. > :11:43.Our colleagues believe our members are very good people who work hard
:11:43. > :11:48.in their communities. We agree with their views on Europe. We think the
:11:48. > :11:53.European Union is not working in our interest, it is taxing us too
:11:53. > :11:58.much and bossing us round to much. You were there in the 90s, you saw
:11:58. > :12:04.this happening to John Major and the results of it is Tony Blair won
:12:04. > :12:08.a landslide, he won three. But do you want to go there again? No, the
:12:08. > :12:15.message from John Major said he was quite wrong to join the currency
:12:15. > :12:22.unions. I am pleased David Cameron and George Osborne had no intention
:12:22. > :12:26.of going anywhere near the Euros. It was the economic mess for the
:12:26. > :12:32.European scheme created. Do not enter European economic schemes
:12:32. > :12:35.because they destroy jobs, destroy hopes and ambition in our country.
:12:35. > :12:40.We have learnt that and we are united in not wanting to go behind
:12:40. > :12:43.any of these schemes. The thing that caused the problem for the
:12:43. > :12:47.Conservatives is bad economic policy forced on us by the European
:12:47. > :12:57.entanglement. Thank you. Now, on the front pages
:12:57. > :13:12.
:13:12. > :13:14.today. This Sunday Times, up a Google
:13:14. > :13:20.insider lifts lid on immoral tax scam.
:13:20. > :13:23.But the Observer has Geoffrey Howe criticising the critics of the
:13:23. > :13:29.Prime Minister in this internal row. I also Jessica Ennis getting
:13:29. > :13:36.married. Scotland on Sunday - violent men, a
:13:36. > :13:38.woman's right to know. And then the Sunday Mirror, developments on the
:13:38. > :13:48.Madeleine McCann story. Some speculation about possible
:13:48. > :13:49.
:13:49. > :13:55.criminals. And with me to review the papers are Isabel Harding and
:13:55. > :13:58.David Aaronovitch. David Aaronovitch.
:13:58. > :14:04.The Mail on Sunday takes the story further. David Cameron is reported
:14:04. > :14:09.to have said last year he tells colleagues that the EU is swivel-
:14:09. > :14:14.eyed. It is trying to bring the story as close as possible to the
:14:14. > :14:21.Prime Minister. Anyone in the Tory party won't be surprised by the
:14:21. > :14:24.story. Andrew Feldman has denied these comments. Many in the Tory
:14:24. > :14:30.party thinks that the Prime Minister thinks this about them
:14:30. > :14:36.anyway. It is like an echo from the 90s, white coats flapping in the
:14:36. > :14:40.90s? One of the things you neglected to remind John Redwood is
:14:40. > :14:46.he stood unsuccessfully against John Major lock Tory party
:14:46. > :14:52.leadership. His support group was known as Ward 10 at Broadmoor, when
:14:52. > :14:59.they stood behind him. And his account is very much the account of
:14:59. > :15:07.these people that Andrew Feldman was unconvinced, did say this about.
:15:07. > :15:11.Believing probably he was off the record at the time. Here we have
:15:12. > :15:17.them hitting back. It is true, in these circumstances, if somebody
:15:17. > :15:24.calls to that, you have three alternatives. Either take it on the
:15:24. > :15:32.chin. The second one is, somebody has call me that, I should look at
:15:32. > :15:42.what I'm saying. The third is, Huns the person down, proving that you
:15:42. > :15:42.
:15:42. > :31:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 922 seconds
:31:05. > :31:08.The number of patients using accident and emergency services has
:31:08. > :31:11.increased by more than a million in a year. The pressure on A&Es is
:31:11. > :31:14.such that the Red Cross complained its being left to pick up the
:31:14. > :31:17.pieces. Official figures show that the vast majority of hospitals are
:31:17. > :31:20.failing to met their target of seeing 95 % of patients within four
:31:20. > :31:23.hours. And, as we heard in the paper review, health service
:31:23. > :31:28.managers have warned that the whole A&E system faces imminent collapse.
:31:28. > :31:33.Mr Hunt joins me now. Good morning. First on Europe, what
:31:34. > :31:38.a mess? I think John Redwood was right in what he said. If you look
:31:38. > :31:43.at the substance of the issues. The Conservative Party is absolutely
:31:43. > :31:48.united. We look at the European Union and we worry about Britain's
:31:48. > :31:52.ability to compete in the global race. Regulation and red tape that
:31:52. > :31:56.comes from Europe. New regulation about selling olive oil in
:31:57. > :32:02.restaurants. If you go into the boardrooms in New York, Tokyo or
:32:02. > :32:07.Singapore, they think the European economy is a joke. As Geoffrey Howe
:32:07. > :32:12.said, you are suffering a long, nervous breakdown over the EU and
:32:12. > :32:16.David Cameron is losing control. Why would he say that?
:32:16. > :32:20.substance is, the Conservative Party says if we are going to be
:32:20. > :32:25.successful we need to renegotiate our relationship with Europe and
:32:25. > :32:30.give the British people a say. It is the Labour Party where people
:32:30. > :32:34.are saying to Ed Miliband, how can you go into the next election --
:32:34. > :32:39.election ignoring this issue. The Labour party is saying they won't
:32:39. > :32:42.give people a choice. The Liberal Democrats, it was in their
:32:42. > :32:50.manifestos to have an in-out referendum and now they are saying
:32:50. > :32:55.they do not want to do it. obviously have to toe the line here.
:32:55. > :33:00.Everyone is saying you are in meltdown. That is what the BBC are
:33:00. > :33:05.saying. It is out there. Looked at the policy issue of substance.
:33:05. > :33:09.you seen the papers? That is what I am saying, if you look at the
:33:09. > :33:13.policy issue, it is, do we need to do something to make our
:33:13. > :33:18.relationship with Europe different? On that issue, there is absolute
:33:19. > :33:24.unity. It is an important change. What is different about what David
:33:24. > :33:28.Cameron has said, he is saying, these are serious issues he won't
:33:28. > :33:32.sweep under the carpet. We do need to change our relationship with
:33:32. > :33:37.Europe. We do one's a relationship with Europe where we can stay in
:33:37. > :33:41.the European Union and be confident in the global race. Is he being
:33:41. > :33:46.pushed around by Euro-sceptics, first saying he won't have a
:33:46. > :33:51.referendum, then he says he will. He won't have it in the draft Bill
:33:51. > :33:56.now, now you do? He is showing leadership. He said it is an
:33:56. > :34:00.important issue. If we are going to have jobs and prosperity for our
:34:00. > :34:04.children and grandchildren, we need to have an economy where we can
:34:04. > :34:09.compete with the Chinese, Indians, Brazilians and the Russians and all
:34:09. > :34:14.of these growing economies. Frankly, nothing that comes out of Brussels
:34:14. > :34:18.gives you confidence that they get that. We want to change that, and
:34:18. > :34:23.we are the only party that said we will do the heavy lifting on this.
:34:23. > :34:26.We will go back to Europe, and when we have done that, we will ask the
:34:26. > :34:33.British people whether they agree what we have done is the right
:34:33. > :34:38.thing. If you win the next election, and it looks like you won't be
:34:38. > :34:45.divided going into it... You have said you are not divided... Don't
:34:45. > :34:50.be defeatist, Jeremy. Just to be clear, you are saying right and now,
:34:50. > :34:54.your party is united on Europe? Absolutely, on the substance of the
:34:54. > :34:59.issue that we need a changed relationship with Europe, the
:34:59. > :35:04.Conservative party is saying we do, and the graft David pointed to
:35:04. > :35:11.earlier, that is in tune with the British people. Then there is no
:35:11. > :35:15.trouble? Of course we have a debate. Patriot ism runs deep in the veins
:35:15. > :35:20.of all Conservatives. When you have an issue of sovereignty, it is
:35:20. > :35:23.something we debated fiercely. As far as the next election is
:35:24. > :35:30.concerned, we shouldn't be defeatist. There was a poll this
:35:30. > :35:35.week that showed Labour's Reid had been cut to 3%. We will come onto
:35:35. > :35:38.them, don't worry about them for the moment. We will come on to them
:35:38. > :35:42.with Lord Mandelson. It is a shambles, you get the Prime
:35:42. > :35:49.Minister going to the White House and end up in a conversation about
:35:49. > :35:55.the EU with the US President, and he has to give David Cameron advise,
:35:55. > :35:58.and you say it is all fine? When you are Prime Minister and you
:35:58. > :36:04.won't govern for popularity but do the right thing for the country, it
:36:04. > :36:08.starts up a big debate. David Cameron, when it comes to the big
:36:08. > :36:12.decisions, cutting public spending to get the deficit under control,
:36:12. > :36:16.getting immigration under control, reforming the welfare state and
:36:16. > :36:22.putting cap on benefits, this is someone who has never shied away
:36:22. > :36:28.from a fight. It is the same on Europe. Don't underestimate David
:36:28. > :36:32.Cameron. People said he would never veto a European treaty - he did.
:36:32. > :36:39.The first Prime Minister to do so. People said he wouldn't cut the
:36:39. > :36:44.European budget - he did. People said he could not the repatriate
:36:44. > :36:49.powers from Europe, he got us out the Euro bail-out. Do you believe
:36:49. > :36:55.somebody close to him called your local party members, swivel-eyed,
:36:55. > :37:00.loons? No, I don't. The person who is alleged to have said that has
:37:00. > :37:06.denied it. I know the individual and I trust him, he is a man of
:37:06. > :37:11.great honour. You don't think he said it? I don't, No. You don't
:37:11. > :37:16.think anybody else said it? It does not reflect the views of the Prime
:37:16. > :37:21.Minister. If you look at his Prime Minister, so much of what he has
:37:21. > :37:25.done has been informed by the views and the opinions of hard-working,
:37:26. > :37:29.grassroots Conservative campaigners, whose views, incidentally of very
:37:30. > :37:33.much in tune with the vast majority of the British people. They are the
:37:33. > :37:38.ones who said we have to do something about immigration.
:37:38. > :37:42.Theresa May has cut immigration by a third. They are the ones who said
:37:42. > :37:47.we have to reward hard work and get rid of the something for nothing
:37:47. > :37:55.culture. We have introduced a benefits cap and are reducing --
:37:55. > :37:58.introducing reforms to welfare. It is important to the DNA of the
:37:58. > :38:05.policies we are putting in place. The people you mention have not
:38:05. > :38:10.been happy with the policies on gay marriage, equal marriage?
:38:10. > :38:15.recognised this is an issue of conscience. It is a very, very
:38:15. > :38:20.difficult issue for many people. Where are you on it? I personally
:38:20. > :38:24.supported. I believe in the institution of marriage. We should
:38:24. > :38:30.be encouraging people to make a lifelong commitment to people.
:38:30. > :38:34.Society is stronger if you do that. In my case, I chose to get married
:38:34. > :38:40.in a church and not a Registry Office, because I wanted to make my
:38:40. > :38:43.marriage vows in front of God. If gay people want to do that and the
:38:43. > :38:49.Church want to conduct that ceremony, we shouldn't stand in
:38:49. > :38:54.their wake. Your party is divided on this? It is about conscience.
:38:54. > :39:00.All parties find this a difficult issues. It is one we are right to
:39:00. > :39:05.surface and have a debate about. Let me ask you about the health
:39:05. > :39:10.service and the A&E problem. Will you tell us why they are getting
:39:10. > :39:16.overloaded? Short-term pressures and long-term pressures. We did
:39:16. > :39:22.have some teething problems with the new 111 service, which we are
:39:22. > :39:26.now resolving. The problem runs deeper than that. I have been
:39:26. > :39:31.talking to doctors over the last few months. But there are a number
:39:31. > :39:35.of things and one of them is, it is harder now for hospitals to hit
:39:35. > :39:41.their targets because under the last Government, we had a culture
:39:41. > :39:45.of hitting targets at any cost. That led to the appalling tragedy
:39:45. > :39:50.at mid- Staffordshire Hospital. Hospitals are saying that these
:39:50. > :39:56.targets matter, they do need to see people within four hours in A&E
:39:56. > :40:01.Cobham but not in a way that compromises patients' safety.
:40:01. > :40:07.your explanation goes back to the GP contract in 2004, truncate in
:40:07. > :40:11.the idea that GPs are to blame and they are cheesed off about that?
:40:11. > :40:16.never blame GPs, they work extremely hard. They have very,
:40:16. > :40:21.very long days. But a contract is one of the contributing causes, yes.
:40:21. > :40:27.What happens is, when you remove the responsibility for services at
:40:27. > :40:32.evenings and weekends from GPs, the service deteriorated. There is a
:40:32. > :40:35.great loss of Public confident. If you need to talk to it GP out-of-
:40:35. > :40:40.hours he will be talking to someone who is a long way away from you,
:40:40. > :40:45.does not know you, cannot see your medical notes. I do not want to go
:40:45. > :40:50.back to the days when GPs are personally encore at 2am on a
:40:50. > :40:56.Saturday morning. What is the answer then? If you cannot get them
:40:56. > :41:00.back on board, what can you do? need to go back to GPs having
:41:00. > :41:04.responsibility for making sure that for the people on their list, there
:41:04. > :41:08.is a good service available. The reforms we have had in the health
:41:08. > :41:15.service helped to make it happen, but there is lots more we need to
:41:15. > :41:19.do. If the target is four hours maximum for 95% of people in A&E,
:41:19. > :41:25.it does not seem you want to undershoot the that with very many
:41:25. > :41:30.people, why would you want to use that target? We don't. In a large
:41:30. > :41:34.organisation like the NHS, you don't need to have targets. It is a
:41:34. > :41:40.part of basic, good care that when anybody goes to hospital in an
:41:40. > :41:45.emergency, you see them quickly. We don't want people to follow targets
:41:45. > :41:52.blindly, at any cost. We had people put into beds that have not been
:41:52. > :41:55.properly cleaned, ambulances circulating -- encircling hospitals
:41:55. > :42:01.because they did not want to go through the doors, and the clock
:42:01. > :42:11.starts ticking. We need to see people quickly. The situation is,
:42:11. > :42:12.
:42:12. > :42:16.he brought this 101 line on too early. -- 111. They end up being
:42:16. > :42:21.taken to hospital in an ambulance. We heard the story of so many
:42:21. > :42:26.having diarrhoea and they were blue light it to the hospital? We did
:42:26. > :42:31.have some teething problems, but it is up and running in 90% of the
:42:31. > :42:37.countries. We are hitting our A&E targets. I think that had a short-
:42:37. > :42:42.term impact. But we won't deal with the problems in A&E unless we look
:42:42. > :42:46.at those long-term causes and having better alternatives in
:42:46. > :42:50.primary care, a close-up, personal relationship between people and
:42:50. > :42:58.their GPs. Something many people felt was lost during those contract
:42:58. > :43:02.changes. That will be at the heart of the solution.
:43:02. > :43:05.Over the past few weeks we've heard from several big beasts on the anti
:43:05. > :43:08.side of the debate about the UK's membership of the EU, with the
:43:08. > :43:10.former Tory Cabinet ministers, Lord Lawson and Michael Portillo both
:43:10. > :43:16.declaring they'll vote to leave, when a referendum takes place. But
:43:16. > :43:19.what about the pro-Europeans? Well now, Lord Mandelson, who served as
:43:19. > :43:22.EU trade commissioner, when he wasn't at the forefront of the last
:43:22. > :43:25.Labour government is having his say. Quitting would be a colossal
:43:25. > :43:31.indulgence, he believes. And he joins me now to explain why.
:43:31. > :43:36.Welcome. A colossal indulgence, why? We have
:43:36. > :43:41.huge benefits from Europe, primarily the Europe's single
:43:41. > :43:48.market. It scales up our ability to trade in Europe and with the rest
:43:48. > :43:52.of the world. Be create business opportunities for small and medium
:43:52. > :43:56.enterprises and in the supply chains of Europe. It brings a
:43:56. > :44:02.colossal amount of foreign investments because people are
:44:02. > :44:07.Investment -- investing here to get access to Europe's single market.
:44:07. > :44:11.46% of people want us out? If we pulled out, we wouldn't have
:44:11. > :44:15.unfettered access to the single market and we wouldn't have our
:44:15. > :44:18.share in the decision-making and law-making in the single market.
:44:18. > :44:25.That would be a great setback, economic LEA for Britain. But a
:44:25. > :44:31.poll suggested 46% of people want us out, so after all these years
:44:31. > :44:37.they are not convinced. There wouldn't be the vote with out a
:44:37. > :44:42.national debate, during this time, all the benefits Britain a rise by
:44:42. > :44:47.being part of the European Union would be borne out. If people are
:44:47. > :44:52.not violently pro or violently anti- Europe, they are open to
:44:52. > :44:55.persuasion. They take a more pragmatic view, they want to know
:44:55. > :44:59.where Britain serves to gain or from its membership from the
:44:59. > :45:04.European Union. They want to see the balance from the advantages of
:45:04. > :45:09.being in and also the compromises we need to make. Are pragmatic view
:45:09. > :45:14.I think leads to only one conclusion, and that is to stay in.
:45:14. > :45:18.But the debate would have to be had. He wanted us to go into the euro,
:45:18. > :45:24.at what point we do apologise for that question that I don't have to
:45:24. > :45:29.apologise. It was a disaster. don't have to apologise for making
:45:29. > :45:32.the point that if the circumstances are such, it would be in Britain's
:45:32. > :45:38.interests to be in the single currency, then we should consider
:45:38. > :45:44.doing so. Even now? Those circumstances and those conditions
:45:44. > :45:48.had not arisen. If we were to make a move like that, it would involve
:45:49. > :45:53.us in a significant change in our relationship with the European
:45:53. > :45:58.Union. In those circumstances, I can see we would need to have a
:45:58. > :46:03.referendum. To have an in-out referendum now, just for the sake