:00:02. > :00:05.leave most customers confused about the cheapest deal.
:00:05. > :00:15.Almost 1,000 people are arrested during two days of protests in
:00:15. > :00:18.
:00:18. > :00:28.Turkey. In Istanbul, it is calm at the
:00:28. > :00:41.
:00:41. > :00:44.moment. The Good morning. Welcome to the first Andrew Marr Show in
:00:44. > :00:49.flaming June - after a spring which the Met Office said this week was
:00:49. > :00:52.the flaming coldest since before Dr Who was born. The departure of Matt
:00:52. > :00:54.Smith is a big story in today's papers. Here to review them, the
:00:54. > :00:58.entrepreneur and concert promoter Harvey Goldsmith and beloved
:00:58. > :01:01.columnist from The Sun Jane Moore. There are more lobbying revelations
:01:01. > :01:04.in the papers this morning, with a senior Labour politician apparently
:01:04. > :01:08.poised to take a large payment in exchange for promoting the interests
:01:08. > :01:15.of a company. I will be asking the Shadow Foreign Secretary whether
:01:15. > :01:18.there are just some bad apples or if it is a much bigger problem. And
:01:18. > :01:21.with the Red Cross calling for immediate access to one besieged
:01:21. > :01:24.town in Syria, we'll talk about the ongoing crisis there. Critics call
:01:24. > :01:27.it a snooper's charter - supporters say it is a vital tool in the fight
:01:27. > :01:29.against terrorism - we will debate the Communications Data Bill, with
:01:29. > :01:32.David Davis and former Security Minister Lord West. Security
:01:32. > :01:36.worries, too, in Northern Ireland, as it prepares to host world leaders
:01:36. > :01:42.for the G8 summit. I will ask the chief constable in charge of
:01:43. > :01:46.security how worried he is about the threat of violence. You saw her sing
:01:46. > :01:52.here on BBC One last night - this morning, Beyonce tells us why she is
:01:52. > :01:55.not prepared to wait any longer for the empowerment of women. And live
:01:55. > :02:05.with us here in the studio will be Alison Moyet, singing a track from
:02:05. > :02:23.
:02:23. > :02:26.her new album. All that coming up after the news, from Louise Minchin.
:02:26. > :02:29.Good morning. Three members of the House of Lords have been accused of
:02:29. > :02:31.agreeing to carry out parliamentary work for payment. The Labour peers
:02:31. > :02:34.Lord Cunningham and Lord Brian Mackenzie and the Ulster Unionist
:02:34. > :02:38.Lord Laird were filmed by undercover reporters who were pretending to be
:02:38. > :02:48.from fictitious companies. All three peers say they havwe done nothing
:02:48. > :02:51.
:02:51. > :02:55.wrong. Lord Laird was approached by a fake lobbying company set up by
:02:55. > :02:58.BBC panorama, in conjunction with the Daily Telegraph, which claims to
:02:58. > :03:02.be representing business interests in Fiji. They asked him if he was
:03:02. > :03:07.interested in being paid to work for them. He said he would be interested
:03:07. > :03:14.in excepting a retainer of �2000 a month. He discussed with undercover
:03:14. > :03:24.reporters how he could get other people to raise questions in the
:03:24. > :03:48.
:03:48. > :03:53.separate but similar investigation, posing as an energy company. They
:03:53. > :04:03.secretly filmed to Labour peers who were both offered cash in return for
:04:03. > :04:22.
:04:22. > :04:26.clear - members of the House of Lords are not meant to profit from
:04:26. > :04:30.their role. In separate statements, all three have denied any
:04:30. > :04:33.wrongdoing. Labour has urged the coalition to introduce an official
:04:33. > :04:37.register of lobbying firms, which they promised more than 18 months
:04:37. > :04:40.ago, but which still has not materialised. Proposals to simplify
:04:40. > :04:45.energy tariffs and make it easier for customers to compare them are
:04:45. > :04:48.still too complicated, according to the consumer group Which? Their
:04:48. > :04:50.report claims seven out of ten people still can't work out the
:04:50. > :04:55.cheapest deals for gas and electricity, when using an Ofgem
:04:55. > :04:58.comparison system. The energy regulator has rejected the results,
:04:58. > :05:02.saying the research methods were misleading. The Government has
:05:02. > :05:07.ordered firms to cut the number of rates on offer to a maximum of four
:05:07. > :05:10.by next year, to help make the process easier. The Turkish
:05:10. > :05:13.authorities say nearly 1,000 people have been detained following a
:05:13. > :05:15.second day of violent protests in Istanbul and other cities. The
:05:15. > :05:19.country's Prime Minister has called for an immediate end to the
:05:19. > :05:22.demonstrations. They began in opposition to plans to develop a
:05:22. > :05:31.public square into a shopping centre, but have grown into
:05:32. > :05:34.A second man has been charged with murdering Drummer Lee Rigby, who
:05:34. > :05:37.died in Woolwich a week ago. 28-year-old Michael Adebolajo is
:05:37. > :05:47.also accused of attempting to kill two police officers and possessing a
:05:47. > :05:48.
:05:48. > :05:50.firearm. He is due to appear in Hundreds of cyclists, including 30
:05:50. > :05:54.injured servicemen, will complete the final stage of their 350-mile
:05:54. > :05:57.journey from Paris to London today, as a part of a fundraising event for
:05:57. > :05:59.Help for Heroes. The riders will be met in South-East London by over
:05:59. > :06:02.1,000 more cyclists, who have completed charity bike rides around
:06:02. > :06:05.the UK in support of the wounded. The challenge was arranged before
:06:06. > :06:15.Drummer Lee Rigby was killed last week, while wearing one of the
:06:16. > :06:17.
:06:17. > :06:27.That's all from me for now. I will be back with the headlines just
:06:27. > :06:31.
:06:31. > :06:38.before ten o'clock. Back to you, leaders will descend on Northern
:06:38. > :06:42.Ireland for this week 's G8 conference. The police service there
:06:42. > :06:44.has accepted that it will be under particular pressure from terrorist
:06:44. > :06:48.threats and groups wanting to make a name for themselves while the
:06:48. > :06:51.leaders are in town. The man who will have control of security for
:06:51. > :06:56.the event, which will see the biggest leasing operation in the
:06:56. > :07:02.history of Northern Ireland, is the chief constable of the PSNI, Matt
:07:02. > :07:05.Baggott. Chief Constable, are you ready? Yes, we are ready. We have
:07:05. > :07:09.engaged in meticulous planning, we have got some very good equipment,
:07:09. > :07:13.the training has been thorough, and it has been a real team effort. I am
:07:13. > :07:17.buried grateful for the support I have had both nationally from every
:07:17. > :07:20.police force in England, Wales and Scotland, and also internationally,
:07:20. > :07:27.from people like the Canadians, who have come over and share their
:07:27. > :07:31.expertise with us. How big an operation is it, then the? It it is
:07:31. > :07:37.a significant logistical challenge. We have heard a relatively short
:07:37. > :07:40.period to prepare for it. About 7000 police others as will be involved.
:07:40. > :07:49.We are making sure that we carry on policing as usual in northerly
:07:49. > :07:53.island. -- in Northern Ireland. are you most worried about? The
:07:53. > :07:59.assistant chief constable is quoted as saying he expects terror attacks
:07:59. > :08:02.during the summit... Sadly, there is always the possibility of a
:08:02. > :08:06.terrorist attack in Northern Ireland. I would describe that for
:08:06. > :08:10.us as business as usual. The threat level here has been severe for quite
:08:10. > :08:14.some time. But we have had a significant uplift in our
:08:14. > :08:17.counterterrorism efforts and resources. We are putting into
:08:17. > :08:21.custody about one person a week at the moment, being charged, and that
:08:21. > :08:26.threat level is being dealt with. But sadly, that is the reality of
:08:26. > :08:30.life here. That threat is aimed at the police service Northern Ireland
:08:30. > :08:35.and security personnel here, not at the summit itself. We will deal with
:08:35. > :08:40.that, we will keep the pressure on. We have made arrests in the past few
:08:40. > :08:42.days. There was that pipe bomb attack this week, some people
:08:43. > :08:48.wondering whether republican dissidents are becoming more brazen,
:08:48. > :08:54.as it was launched from a loyalist area? No, they always look at their
:08:54. > :08:58.tax ticks. I cannot talk about that particular investigation, as you
:08:58. > :09:03.will appreciate. But pipe bombs, that is something they have been
:09:03. > :09:06.using for many years here. That threat is against security personnel
:09:06. > :09:10.from the Police Service of Northern Ireland, and we have a significant,
:09:10. > :09:14.successful effort going into containing that. There is always the
:09:14. > :09:17.possibility here of an attack, in relation to business as usual. But
:09:17. > :09:21.in relation to the summit, we are very well prepared, there has been
:09:21. > :09:26.really affect of planning, and we are getting significant support from
:09:26. > :09:33.across the UK and internationally. How are you going to balance the
:09:33. > :09:37.desire for security with the right to protest adage we will make sure
:09:37. > :09:42.that people that come over here to protest lawfully enjoy that right,
:09:42. > :09:46.which is part of living in a democracy. The police service here
:09:46. > :09:49.is very well experienced in managing large protest is. Last year we had
:09:49. > :09:54.the Jubilee and the Ulster covenant march, which had 50,000 people on
:09:54. > :10:04.the streets. Only recently, we were praised by the United Nations for
:10:04. > :10:14.the way in which we police protests and public order. We do fat with a
:10:14. > :10:17.
:10:17. > :10:20.very clear human rights framework. So, once again, we are used to this.
:10:20. > :10:24.People that come here have a right to protest, and we will facilitate
:10:24. > :10:29.that, but we are prepared for every possibility. I am guessing, the way
:10:29. > :10:34.it is set up, the only chance the G8 leaders themselves will get to see
:10:34. > :10:37.protesters is if they watch it on the news? There is very, very firm
:10:37. > :10:42.security around the venue, as you would expect. I will not speak about
:10:42. > :10:46.the details, but you can see by the scale of our operations, that will
:10:46. > :10:50.be very tight indeed. Over the next few weeks, that will get even
:10:50. > :10:54.tighter. That will not stop people going about their daily business in
:10:54. > :10:57.Northern Ireland. The airports will remain open, and we will do
:10:57. > :11:03.everything to make sure for the community Info manner and across
:11:03. > :11:08.Northern Ireland that they can carry on with life as normal. How do you
:11:08. > :11:13.balance that with what I presume are the desires of the security people
:11:13. > :11:16.come for example, for the American and Russian Presidents? We work very
:11:16. > :11:20.closely with our international partners. They have been part of the
:11:20. > :11:24.planning and preparation. We do that through the Foreign & Commonwealth
:11:24. > :11:29.Office. We have long-standing relationships with our American
:11:29. > :11:33.partners and European partners, and we will work to make sure that the
:11:33. > :11:38.needs of their leaders are facilitated. But do you have the
:11:38. > :11:44.final say? Are you entitled to say to the American security people,
:11:44. > :11:48.this is my shout? We are very much in charge of the security here, but
:11:48. > :11:50.the Americans have been part of that, they listen to us. We do not
:11:50. > :11:54.just let them do what they want in Northern Ireland, that would be
:11:54. > :12:04.wrong, there is a residual threat here. We manage it very carefully
:12:04. > :12:11.
:12:11. > :12:17.Let's take a look at the Sunday papers now. The Sunday Times has
:12:17. > :12:20.that cash for access story, and you can see, a giant glass of wine, and
:12:20. > :12:24.behind it is Lord Cunningham, who denies, along with all of the
:12:24. > :12:26.others, any wrongdoing. The Sunday Telegraph has also picked up on that
:12:26. > :12:36.Telegraph has also picked up on that story. It has got picture of the
:12:36. > :12:43.
:12:43. > :12:48.Queen looking very happy. The Sun as this story about Tulisa Tulisa. The
:12:48. > :12:52.Independent, again, the lobbying scandal, and the main picture, of
:12:52. > :12:55.people we will be hearing from later in the programme, taking part in the
:12:55. > :13:02.event at Twickenham last night. We will be speaking to Harvey Goldsmith
:13:02. > :13:05.in a moment, or had quite a hand in that. This one, David Cameron has
:13:05. > :13:09.held crisis talks at Downing Street after being told of allegations of a
:13:09. > :13:13.sensational love affair, which has potentially significant political
:13:13. > :13:20.indications for him. You will not find any names in here, though. But
:13:20. > :13:26.there it is. And Scotland on Sunday, problems for the Scottish Tory
:13:26. > :13:34.leadership, and Andy Murray on the front page. We welcome Jane Moore
:13:34. > :13:38.and Harvey Goldsmith. What have you got? Well, I guess this is the key
:13:39. > :13:44.story, here we go again, three Lords, Lord Cunningham, Lord
:13:44. > :13:50.McKenzie and Lord Laird have got themselves embroiled in yet another
:13:50. > :13:54.scandal of cash for access. I think this is rather sad, really,
:13:54. > :13:59.although, at the end of it, I have to say, right at the end of the
:14:00. > :14:06.story, there is a quote from Jack Cunningham, who says that he had
:14:06. > :14:15.known he was speaking to undercover reporters during the meeting, he was
:14:15. > :14:20.just testing their credibility. all deny wrongdoing, I should say.
:14:20. > :14:25.Just to say, there is more than one Lord McKenzie. Our main headlines...
:14:25. > :14:34.It is interesting, the News of the World was king of the sting, of
:14:34. > :14:39.course, the undercover filming of people who are doing something
:14:39. > :14:49.allegedly wrong. And you kind of think, is there anyone left in the
:14:49. > :14:55.
:14:55. > :15:01.country that does not know that this kind of thing does go on? In this
:15:01. > :15:03.case, all he had to do was make one phone call to the embassy or the
:15:03. > :15:09.high commission and they would have told him straightaway. You would
:15:09. > :15:16.think that with all the scandals that come out, even if he didn't do
:15:16. > :15:20.it, someone in his office, one phone call only to check out the
:15:20. > :15:25.validity. It is really about the all party Parliamentary groups and
:15:25. > :15:29.whether they should be dragged out of the shadows. These are the groups
:15:29. > :15:39.that the Patrick Mercer story is tied up with, that he was trying to
:15:39. > :15:41.
:15:41. > :15:45.get a group to lobby to get embargo is on Fiji lifted. His quote - he
:15:45. > :15:48.said the group included several freeloaders that would like to go to
:15:48. > :15:58.Fiji, and one who had asked to take Fiji, and one who had asked to take
:15:58. > :15:59.
:15:59. > :16:03.his wife. This is a problem with the electorate. We have page four of the
:16:03. > :16:08.Sunday Telegraph saying isn't it time to be a little bit more
:16:08. > :16:13.transparent about these groups and people's intentions. Obviously some
:16:13. > :16:23.people have very good intentions when they join an all-party
:16:23. > :16:25.
:16:25. > :16:33.parliamentary group. Your joint call to our politicians is to wise up?
:16:33. > :16:38.All you have to do is check it out, it is so easy. All of these deny
:16:38. > :16:48.wrongdoing, but don't be greedy, don't milk the system for the wrong
:16:48. > :16:49.
:16:49. > :16:54.reasons, which is what we went through with MPs' expenses as well.
:16:54. > :17:02.It is just wrong. Everybody wonders why there is such a disdain for
:17:02. > :17:10.voting, then they look at Parliament and read this, and think why are we
:17:10. > :17:14.bothering? You have a poll in the Telegraph? Yes, less than a quarter
:17:14. > :17:21.of the public believes the government should arm the rebels in
:17:21. > :17:26.Syria, but interestingly it shows that more than half, 58%, would
:17:26. > :17:31.support offering humanitarian aid. Don't arm the rebels, but do help
:17:31. > :17:34.the people affected by the conflict, and I think this is a very
:17:34. > :17:39.interesting poll which the politicians should maybe take note
:17:39. > :17:43.of because how many times are we going to interfere in what is
:17:43. > :17:49.happening in another country and possibly do more damage? Already
:17:49. > :17:53.this week we are seeing that Iraq is starting to flareup again, after
:17:53. > :17:58.everything we supposedly did restore democracy. At least they do have a
:17:59. > :18:04.government that has been voted in. Peter Hitchens, whether you agree
:18:04. > :18:11.with his politics or not, his clarity of argument is very
:18:11. > :18:14.compelling. He said imagine newspapers and broadcasters in China
:18:14. > :18:21.denouncing the British government is calling it a regime, some strange
:18:21. > :18:26.foreign people looking come here and start monitoring, and it becomes a
:18:26. > :18:34.civil war. He says this is what we have done to Syria and he says we
:18:34. > :18:38.are arming these rebels, the same Islamists who if they are on British
:18:38. > :18:44.soil it is demanded they are deported, put under surveillance and
:18:44. > :18:51.the rest. I think that is a very valid point, which I don't think the
:18:51. > :18:56.government is particularly getting to grips with. That leads an two
:18:56. > :19:02.apiece by Tony Blair in the Mail on Sunday, which basically says that of
:19:02. > :19:08.course the view of the murder of Lee Rigby was horrific but he is
:19:08. > :19:13.pointing out there are two different viewpoints. One is that it was a
:19:13. > :19:18.crazy lunatic perverted by the idea of Islam, but the other view that he
:19:18. > :19:22.is really putting forward is that this was an ideology which is
:19:22. > :19:32.profound and dangerous. He is saying governments should speak out and get
:19:32. > :19:36.to the root of this idea of the adherence of an ideology which is a
:19:36. > :19:41.kind of strain within Islam. A lot of people might suggest to Tony
:19:41. > :19:45.Blair that part of the reason we maybe have this extremism, and this
:19:45. > :19:51.is the most extreme case of extremism we have had on these
:19:51. > :19:58.shores, may have been flared up by our intervention in Iraq, creating
:19:58. > :20:05.this kind of Britain hates Muslims... We don't, obviously, but
:20:05. > :20:12.maybe that has instigated a lot of this. He has alluded to it, and
:20:12. > :20:20.personally I think for Muslims to get their own house in order and
:20:20. > :20:24.decide where they stand. It is difficult because there are at least
:20:24. > :20:29.two key factions, the Shia Muslims and the Sunni Muslims who don't like
:20:29. > :20:38.each other, and once the dictator leader of those territories
:20:38. > :20:45.disappears, gets dethroned, it opens the doors and of course Syria is
:20:45. > :20:50.just one horrific mess. I do hope that out of this horrific murder,
:20:50. > :20:55.there does become a turning point. There was a fantastic picture at the
:20:55. > :20:59.site where it happened with the flowers and whatever, where it was
:20:59. > :21:03.full of Muslims paying their respects to Lee Rigby which I think
:21:03. > :21:11.is the best sign yet that Muslim communities are saying this is not
:21:11. > :21:18.what we are about. Let me get you onto the Dr Who story. Matt Smith,
:21:18. > :21:28.my time is up as Dr Who. I have never heard of him so I do worry it
:21:28. > :21:33.
:21:33. > :21:37.will become Matt Who in the future! David Tennant is in everything so
:21:37. > :21:43.maybe Matt Smith looked at that and thought I can have this fantastic
:21:43. > :21:50.acting career and I hope he is right. Speculation about a female Dr
:21:50. > :22:00.Who next? Two yes, it is like when people ask Will we have a black
:22:00. > :22:03.
:22:03. > :22:10.James Bond and so on. We have Olivia Colman, who has been winning awards
:22:10. > :22:18.left, right and centre. We have Dame Helen Mirren. I suspect this girl,
:22:18. > :22:27.the sidekick for Dr Who at the moment, people have said maybe she
:22:27. > :22:31.will transmogrify. We had a fantastic concert last night, Chime
:22:31. > :22:37.For Change, and there are so many issues we have been talking about
:22:37. > :22:42.recently in the press of problems of abuse, rape cases, genital
:22:42. > :22:47.mutilation and so on. I think one of the good things coming out of it,
:22:47. > :22:51.for example in the Sunday express a piece about James Khan who came to
:22:51. > :22:57.see me with his initiative. He has started up a start-up loan
:22:57. > :23:03.business, which he got a small sum of money from the government and
:23:03. > :23:08.made it work so well that they have now given him much more. His aim is
:23:08. > :23:15.to get 25,000 young people in business with small start-up loans
:23:15. > :23:21.and now he has turned to two great women to help him work and join
:23:21. > :23:28.forces with them. The gig last night, did feel to you like live aid
:23:29. > :23:38.for women? I think so. Chime For Change is an unusual organisation
:23:39. > :23:44.
:23:44. > :23:49.because it was started by Beyonce and Salma Hayek, and the whole point
:23:49. > :23:57.of last night was to really start to highlight the issue. Out of the
:23:57. > :24:01.results of last night's show, 200 projects have already... We know
:24:01. > :24:06.they are going to be funded and start working. What was different
:24:06. > :24:11.from last night's show to previous fund-raising shows, for the first
:24:11. > :24:19.time, everybody that bought a ticket, then money is going into the
:24:19. > :24:24.cause and on Monday they will start receiving tokens from the collection
:24:24. > :24:28.agency, and they will receive a token and they can choose which of
:24:28. > :24:34.the causes they want their money to go to so they can really get
:24:34. > :24:41.involved and be empowered by it. will be hearing from the three
:24:41. > :24:47.co-founders later on. One final story, exotic plants? Kew Gardens
:24:47. > :24:57.have drawn up a list of weird and wonderful edible plants but they say
:24:57. > :25:00.
:25:00. > :25:07.everybody should try once. I think I might give the stinking toe amiss!
:25:07. > :25:16.This story is about David Cameron who forgot his passport. We have all
:25:16. > :25:26.done that! He has a whole army of staff. I mentioned flaming June,
:25:26. > :25:30.
:25:30. > :25:34.Compared to this time yesterday, it will be that bit warmer and many
:25:35. > :25:41.will be basking in sunshine. Here is the recent satellite sequence, you
:25:41. > :25:46.can see the extent of the sunshine in England, Wales and Scotland. The
:25:46. > :25:51.exception is Northern Ireland, and this cloud will bring some patchy
:25:51. > :25:59.rain. The East of Scotland and all of England and Wales will have a
:25:59. > :26:05.decent day with patchy cloud, sunny spells and light winds. Temperatures
:26:05. > :26:10.may even reach 21 degrees in the south of London. Gradually we will
:26:10. > :26:14.see some more cloud drifting its way across northern parts of the UK, but
:26:14. > :26:19.we hang onto some clear skies in southern and eastern areas and it is
:26:19. > :26:23.here we will see the lowest of the overnight temperatures, but also the
:26:23. > :26:29.best of the morning sunshine. The amounts of cloud will increase, and
:26:29. > :26:36.we will see some sunshine coming through. Overall it is a day of
:26:36. > :26:41.sunny spells, temperature wise still doing really quite well. The
:26:41. > :26:44.bloodshed in Syria shows no sign of abating and some commentators are
:26:44. > :26:50.worrying that with greater Russian and perhaps European involvement in
:26:50. > :26:56.the country we could be headed for a proxy Cold War. Others still fear
:26:56. > :27:06.that Israel could be drawn in. The shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas
:27:06. > :27:07.
:27:07. > :27:11.Alexander is here. There is still a peace conference that might be
:27:11. > :27:15.peace conference that might be happening, what good might that do?
:27:15. > :27:19.I sincerely hope the peace conference takes place because we
:27:19. > :27:23.need to seek an inclusive political settlement that gives a credible
:27:23. > :27:29.future for the communities within Syria. I feel that the judgement the
:27:29. > :27:33.British government made to effectively break the European arms
:27:33. > :27:38.embargo last week has not been the right one. The argument that they
:27:39. > :27:48.advanced in admittedly difficult circumstances was the possibility of
:27:48. > :27:50.arming the rebels could tip the conflict. At the same time they said
:27:50. > :27:59.it would incentivise President Assad to come to the peace conference, but
:27:59. > :28:07.I worry that if both the rebels and the government feel they are going
:28:07. > :28:12.to get arms deals in the future the incentive to turn up may be
:28:12. > :28:19.diminished. We want to avoid a situation where we see an escalation
:28:19. > :28:23.in arms sales. Syria is awash with arms, and I have been calling for
:28:23. > :28:29.many months for the kind of shuttle diplomacy that we have now seen from
:28:29. > :28:32.John Kerry flying directly to Moscow to speak with the Russian Foreign
:28:32. > :28:37.Minister because we need both the United States and Russia engaged in
:28:37. > :28:41.this process if there is any chance of getting both sides to the table.
:28:41. > :28:45.I was speaking to the Czech Foreign Minister this week and he sees a
:28:45. > :28:51.contradiction in the British and French and the wider European
:28:51. > :28:56.position in wanting everyone to sit down for talks, but saying that
:28:56. > :29:02.President Assad cannot be part of the solution. I think there is a
:29:02. > :29:04.question of choreography if you like. I don't think it should be a
:29:04. > :29:12.precondition of the conference that President Assad goes, but I would
:29:12. > :29:16.like to see him going. I would like to see representatives sitting down
:29:16. > :29:22.in peace talks with others and we have to focus our efforts in the
:29:22. > :29:26.coming days in making sure these talks happen because if we don't see
:29:26. > :29:31.this process taken forward, I struggle to see what we are looking
:29:31. > :29:35.at other than potentially a civil war with proxy fighters on each
:29:35. > :29:41.side, lasting many years into the future. Diplomacy involves talking
:29:41. > :29:44.with people with whom you profoundly disagree and that is why we need to
:29:44. > :29:54.see the Syrian government represented. Your message to the
:29:54. > :29:55.
:29:55. > :30:05.unarmed rebels is what? We are not unarmed rebels is what? We are not
:30:05. > :30:13.
:30:13. > :30:16.They will be a film review. In sport, this story arms are being
:30:16. > :30:19.channelled in by Saudi Arabia and by other countries. Given the proximity
:30:19. > :30:23.other countries. Given the proximity of these peace talks, I think the
:30:23. > :30:28.priority has to be to unify the opposition, rather than to arm the
:30:28. > :30:33.opposition. What we have seen from the opposition has been complete
:30:33. > :30:36.incoherence for many months. At the same time, we need to not take
:30:36. > :30:40.actions which compromise the commitment of the Russians, or of
:30:40. > :30:44.any potential parties, to participate in these very difficult
:30:44. > :30:54.negotiations. How do you get the disparate groups in opposition in
:30:54. > :30:58.Syria to unite? I think Western European politicians have a
:30:58. > :31:02.responsibility to be clear with the rebels, that actually, the Geneva
:31:02. > :31:09.process is the way forward. If we are saying, listen, if you do not
:31:09. > :31:13.turn up at these talks, there is the prospect of arms, so the risk is
:31:13. > :31:17.that the incentives will be pointing in the wrong direction. I am not
:31:17. > :31:20.saying there is an easy solution, because if there was, frankly, it
:31:20. > :31:25.would have been found. But I do believe that the diplomatic path
:31:25. > :31:29.represents the best way forward. you think William Hague has made
:31:29. > :31:35.Syria a more dangerous place? think there are serious doubts about
:31:35. > :31:40.the judgment he exercised last week, along with the French, in demanding
:31:40. > :31:44.the lifting of the arms embargo. It required unanimity, and basically,
:31:44. > :31:48.the British and French said, we are simply not going to accept that it
:31:48. > :31:53.continues after this weekend. I feel that with the best of motives, he
:31:53. > :31:55.has ended up in a situation where peace talks may not happen, and we
:31:55. > :32:01.all want to see that happen, including the British government, I
:32:01. > :32:05.am sure. Talking about William Hague, on Europe this week, he is
:32:05. > :32:09.quite keen for a yellow card system, as he put it, where individual
:32:09. > :32:13.countries can say to the commission, have a think about this. He wants to
:32:13. > :32:18.see a red card system, where individual countries can say no
:32:19. > :32:23.joke. Are you in favour of that? Yes, I always agree with William
:32:23. > :32:28.Hague when he agrees with me, because it was what I proposed at a
:32:28. > :32:32.speech at Chatham house back in January. Maybe flattery is a form of
:32:32. > :32:36.imitation, who knows? But I think we should recognise that even after a
:32:36. > :32:40.few months, the government has got to the right place, in saying there
:32:40. > :32:45.should be a greater role for national parliaments. There is no
:32:45. > :32:50.big as agreement between the parties on the need for European reform, but
:32:50. > :32:55.there are profound disagreements on the nature of that reform. They
:32:55. > :33:02.would want to bring powers home to take rights away, but we disagree on
:33:02. > :33:07.that. Back in January, I set out a broader reform agenda than David
:33:07. > :33:10.Cameron and William Hague have done. You have kindly agreed to
:33:10. > :33:13.answer all of my questions this morning without cash changing hands,
:33:13. > :33:18.but that does not always seem to be the case in some of your
:33:18. > :33:23.Parliamentary colleagues - what do you think of that adage any
:33:23. > :33:27.right-thinking person this morning would feel angry. I am angry. I am
:33:27. > :33:30.angry as a citizen of the United Kingdom that this seems to be
:33:30. > :33:34.happening in Parliament, and I am angry as a politician that the good
:33:34. > :33:39.name of the endeavour of politics, trying to find shared solutions to
:33:39. > :33:43.shared problems, is once again being smeared by conduct which cannot be
:33:43. > :33:47.defended. Of course, there needs to be proper investigations, but yes,
:33:47. > :33:51.it does not just make me sad, it makes me angry. In the Labour Party,
:33:51. > :33:55.we want to see cross-party talks immediately with the Government in
:33:55. > :33:59.relation to lobbying, and how we can get it on a proper footing. We have
:34:00. > :34:03.got to ask deeper issues in relation to the House of Lords. I think most
:34:03. > :34:07.people simply do not understand why you can break the rules, in fact
:34:07. > :34:11.break the law, and then find yourself back in the House of Lords
:34:11. > :34:14.once you have undertaken a custodial sentence. There are specific issues
:34:14. > :34:19.in relation to lobbying, but broader issues in terms of making sure that
:34:19. > :34:24.people can have confidence as to the motives of the legislators, whether
:34:24. > :34:27.in the Commons or in the Lords. So, you are suggesting that perhaps the
:34:28. > :34:32.revolving door, if I can put it like that, people who have shown to have
:34:32. > :34:37.done wrong, should not be allowed back in Parliament? I personally do
:34:37. > :34:40.not see that that can be defended. If you break the law, and serve a
:34:40. > :34:44.custodial sentence, then most people would not understand circumstances
:34:44. > :34:48.in which a few months later, you are back in the House of Lords making
:34:48. > :34:52.the laws of the country. For the Labour Party, if anybody in Labour
:34:52. > :34:56.has shown to have done wrong, should they be expelled? First of all,
:34:56. > :35:00.party discipline is a matter for the Chief Whip. Secondly, it is right
:35:00. > :35:04.that people should have a chance to offer as an explanation. If
:35:04. > :35:07.wrongdoing is proved, of course, action should be taken both by
:35:07. > :35:11.Parliament and indeed by the Labour Party. But they do not deserve to
:35:11. > :35:17.still be in the Labour Party if they were shown to have taken cash for
:35:17. > :35:20.questions, do they? Why are you backing away from that? I am not, I
:35:20. > :35:24.am saying there is a process that needs to be followed. If the rules
:35:24. > :35:27.have been broken, then I think the Labour Party should take action. It
:35:27. > :35:35.would be for the Chief Whip to decide, but I would be encouraging
:35:35. > :35:39.her to do so. She is one of the biggest music
:35:39. > :35:46.stars in the world, so, when beyond sane knolls lends her name to a
:35:46. > :35:51.cause, it gets a fair bit of exposure. Last night, beyond say
:35:51. > :36:01.brought her celebrity to Twickenham Stadium in London. They were there
:36:01. > :36:06.
:36:06. > :36:16.to promote Chime For Change, a worldwide campaign to improve
:36:16. > :36:21.
:36:21. > :36:31.education and opportunities for # Such a funny thing for me to try
:36:31. > :36:58.
:36:58. > :37:04.Well, backstage yesterday, I met up with Beyonce, and the co-founders of
:37:04. > :37:09.Time For Change. Watch out here for a delightful floral arrangement.
:37:09. > :37:19.Tell me, I know this is a joint project, tell me about it, and how
:37:19. > :37:19.
:37:19. > :37:24.it came about. Chime For Change is a great opportunity to talk about
:37:24. > :37:27.empowerment of women and girls. The project was born a year ago. We
:37:27. > :37:31.started to share ideas and we wanted to do something really special,
:37:31. > :37:41.something with a very big voice for tonight, and also for the future. It
:37:41. > :37:44.
:37:44. > :37:51.is not only an event, it is about a movement. That is why we have got
:37:51. > :37:56.very strong women, with very strong personalities, people who are really
:37:56. > :38:01.involved in these kind of causes. For me, it is not only important to
:38:01. > :38:04.have the biggest stars on the stage, but also having people that are
:38:04. > :38:10.really in love with everything, and can really talk about these issues
:38:10. > :38:14.in a proper way. I do not suppose anybody would argue much with the
:38:14. > :38:20.cause and with the goal - tell me about the method of getting to where
:38:20. > :38:26.you want to be, why the concert, what do you hope it will achieve?
:38:26. > :38:32.Well, it is not just the concert. The concert is really there to
:38:32. > :38:38.support... It is new technology, because one of our partners is the
:38:39. > :38:41.Gates foundation, where you can go to this site and find out all of the
:38:41. > :38:51.different things which are happening to women around the world, and how
:38:51. > :38:51.
:38:51. > :38:56.you can help. And it is in every single aspect of disrespect to
:38:56. > :39:00.women, whether it is in the lack of education, or in health issues or in
:39:00. > :39:07.injustice. We are not asking people for money for our charity. This is
:39:07. > :39:11.not what it is, it is a movement. We are providing people the possibility
:39:11. > :39:16.to participate on their own. Giving them the empowerment to say, this is
:39:16. > :39:19.what I care about, I am worried about this, I do not know what I am
:39:19. > :39:24.worried about but I want to do something good. A place for them to
:39:24. > :39:31.go and see what is happening. So, the concert, of course, we are
:39:31. > :39:35.raising money, which is going to go to the 200, we have right now,
:39:36. > :39:40.different NGOs which have already been screened and investigated. That
:39:40. > :39:43.is another thing. Sometimes people say, where is my money going to go?
:39:43. > :39:47.Because of the technology, you can follow up and see what is happening
:39:47. > :39:51.to those projects that you are supporting. So, the concert, it has
:39:51. > :40:00.already raised a lot of money, just the concert, which is going to go to
:40:00. > :40:10.these organisations. More than $4 million. Beyonce, why do you think
:40:10. > :40:18.it is still necessary... ? Why are we waiting, I guess? That is why we
:40:18. > :40:22.are here, so we can stop waiting and raise the awareness. We spoke about
:40:22. > :40:26.this, and I was in disbelief, some of the statistics. I feel like there
:40:26. > :40:31.are a lot of people but just do not think about it, just do not talk
:40:31. > :40:41.about it cool why do women put up with it? We do not want to any more,
:40:41. > :40:41.
:40:41. > :40:44.which is why we are here. It starts with change, and it starts with now.
:40:44. > :40:49.It is not that women do not put up with it, they have no choice, they
:40:49. > :40:53.are not protected. So, what change can they make? One interesting thing
:40:53. > :40:58.about the concert tonight is that it is not just the voice of the
:40:58. > :41:01.incredible arias, but Frieda has had a project to find the voice and the
:41:01. > :41:05.stories of these women, that you have not heard, through short films,
:41:05. > :41:14.through documentaries, and tonight, you are going to be able to listen
:41:14. > :41:18.to them, to listen to their dreams. The artists are really inspiring,
:41:18. > :41:22.but you will be really inspired by some of these amazing forces of
:41:23. > :41:29.nature. What can they do? We can stick together, we have to have a
:41:29. > :41:33.voice. We have to believe that it can change. And thinking about why
:41:34. > :41:39.this is still necessary, I think you all have daughters - what do you
:41:39. > :41:43.think will have changed in the world by the time they are your age?
:41:43. > :41:47.course, it will change a lot in tonnes of education, and then of
:41:47. > :41:53.course, everybody has got different stories. I think education is really
:41:53. > :41:59.a key for the future, for the girls and women. A woman who can read can
:41:59. > :42:05.really make a difference in their life. She can also make a difference
:42:05. > :42:11.in the life of her own children. Beyonce, you have described yourself
:42:11. > :42:14.as a modern feminist, so, is this modern feminism in action? Yes,
:42:15. > :42:20.tonight has already sold out, and we have already started lives, which
:42:20. > :42:25.makes me incredibly proud. For me, it is a sense of justice. If this
:42:25. > :42:28.was happening for men, if men were in the situation that men were in in
:42:28. > :42:34.the world, I would be fighting for men today with all my teeth and
:42:34. > :42:38.nails. What would I like to see in the future? I wish in the short
:42:38. > :42:44.future we cannot find a corner in the world where women do not have
:42:44. > :42:48.access to human rights. Just finally, Frieda, are you worried
:42:48. > :42:58.that somewhere in the world, somebody will be doing a cheap
:42:58. > :42:59.
:42:59. > :43:03.version of this concert? ! No, not at all, thank you very much! Nick
:43:03. > :43:07.Clegg is putting the country at risk with his opposition to the
:43:07. > :43:11.Communications Data Bill, according to one of my guests, Lord West, who
:43:11. > :43:15.was in Security Minister under Gordon Brown. Mr Clegg has support
:43:15. > :43:19.for his stance from politicians in each party, including the senior
:43:19. > :43:23.Conservative MP David Davis, who says the idea of the Government
:43:23. > :43:26.monitoring the calls, e-mails and texts of everyone in the UK is
:43:26. > :43:30.unnecessary and wrong. Lord West, David Davis, you are both very
:43:30. > :43:34.welcome. Lord West - why does the Government need to know more about
:43:34. > :43:39.what we are doing? It is not a question of knowing more. There are
:43:39. > :43:42.two aspects to this bill. At the moment we are able to get access to
:43:42. > :43:46.all of the details which are held by various companies of when a
:43:46. > :43:50.telephone was used, where, and who they were calling. This is what I
:43:50. > :43:54.like to describe as the envelope of the letter. We do not actually look
:43:54. > :44:01.into the details and everything. It is able to do that. But because of
:44:01. > :44:07.the new methods of talking to each other and communicating, we cannot
:44:07. > :44:10.look at things like Skype, so those are unavailable to us. And also, the
:44:10. > :44:14.companies are no longer keeping the material they used to keep, the
:44:14. > :44:19.details of mobile phones and things. This was what alerted us to the fact
:44:19. > :44:24.that we were going to lose that data. So, 95% of all prosecutions,
:44:24. > :44:28.serious prosecutions, by the CPS, involve communications data, which
:44:28. > :44:31.was slowly going to disappear. So, clearly, something needed to be done
:44:31. > :44:35.to hold onto that, to hold on to something which has always been
:44:35. > :44:42.available. And also, we have got new communication methods, so let's get
:44:42. > :44:45.the same detail from that as well. That explains the technology, but
:44:45. > :44:50.from the point of view of the Government, why is that information
:44:50. > :44:53.necessary, what are you trying to do with it? It enables you to prove,
:44:53. > :45:02.for example, that someone has lied about where they are. There is a
:45:02. > :45:08.We are talking about the speculation over who will be the
:45:08. > :45:15.next Doctor Who. What did you think when he heard that Matt Smith was
:45:15. > :45:19.quitting? It came as a shock. It has come as a big shock to the fans
:45:19. > :45:29.as well. The Doctor Who forum has lit up with people who are quite
:45:29. > :45:33.dismayed that Matt Smith is leaving. It has come as a bit of a shock
:45:33. > :45:39.considering it is the 50th anniversary year. It has put a bit
:45:39. > :45:44.of a Downer on it, unfortunately, for me. What kind of a doctor did
:45:44. > :45:47.he make question mark he has brought the classic Evelyn's --
:45:47. > :45:54.elegance of the doctors that have come before and brought his own
:45:54. > :45:59.persona to the screen as well. has been a very successful doctor
:45:59. > :46:09.in my opinion. He has had the elements of Tom Baker before him. A
:46:09. > :46:14.
:46:14. > :46:19.little bit of Sylvester What about the thought that the government just
:46:19. > :46:22.wants to take a look at our envelopes. Last week, there was a
:46:22. > :46:27.quote from somebody from MI5, saying, this would make no
:46:27. > :46:33.difference whatsoever, and in fact, you would need to do other things to
:46:33. > :46:37.deal with Woolwich, not this sort of thing. Now, look at the envelopes.
:46:38. > :46:42.You raised the case of the murderer. Actually, there were nine pieces of
:46:42. > :46:52.data, which were sitting around in police databases, never found. 77,
:46:52. > :46:53.
:46:53. > :46:57.during the run-up to 7/7, MI5 knew about the two lead killers, and yet
:46:57. > :47:01.did nothing about it, because they had too much data. How much better
:47:01. > :47:11.off they going to be if they have got 16 million people on a database?
:47:11. > :47:17.
:47:17. > :47:24.That is part of the problem. At the moment Lord West is right, they can
:47:24. > :47:31.track pretty much every phone in the country. In effect, we are tagged by
:47:31. > :47:37.our mobile phones. They use it 500,000 times a year, sometimes for
:47:37. > :47:42.traffic offences. What is your worry about this? I don't want to give the
:47:42. > :47:52.state vast amounts of data. They have already got vast amounts of
:47:52. > :47:59.
:47:59. > :48:03.data. In my opinion too much. We know they use them for things as
:48:03. > :48:08.mundane as traffic offences. It is not just the fact that it is large
:48:09. > :48:13.amounts of data, it is also illustrated. If you look at
:48:13. > :48:23.everybody's e-mail, text, phone calls and so on, you know who they
:48:23. > :48:25.
:48:25. > :48:29.are, who they are talking to, which web addresses they use. I don't
:48:29. > :48:37.think the previous or the current government really knew what they
:48:37. > :48:41.intended to do with it. It is quite clear this is used in many cases, it
:48:41. > :48:48.is crucial information prosecuting serious crimes and terrorism. The
:48:48. > :48:52.data is held by these companies. One of the committees was a cross-party
:48:52. > :48:59.committee that came up with a mass of recommendations and all of them
:48:59. > :49:03.were taken, quite correctly, in the revised legislation. The joint
:49:03. > :49:07.committee had all parties and people who didn't really like this sort of
:49:07. > :49:16.thing, our overall conclusion is this is a case for legislation that
:49:16. > :49:23.will provide the law authorities with further access to communication
:49:23. > :49:26.data. It was meant to be in the Queen's speech and was withdrawn
:49:26. > :49:35.because the Deputy Prime Minister decided he could score a point on
:49:35. > :49:39.this. It seems to me that... All I would say is that he has had some
:49:39. > :49:45.problems at certain political points and this is a political point. I
:49:46. > :49:52.don't believe he has really taken full cognizance of what the security
:49:52. > :49:57.implications really are. You're saying the Deputy Prime Minister is
:49:57. > :50:01.putting party political points before national security? He has not
:50:01. > :50:07.taken full cognizance of the full implications. Because he is getting
:50:07. > :50:14.advice from all sorts of people saying this is wrong or whatever, if
:50:14. > :50:18.I can just finish. You started down this process five years before you
:50:18. > :50:26.went out of government and never did it because of practical problems.
:50:26. > :50:31.Secondly, I think it is cheap to attack the Deputy Prime Minister. I
:50:31. > :50:36.am not one of his fans, but this is the same stand of principle taken by
:50:36. > :50:40.David Cameron and to Reza May before the election so I don't think you
:50:40. > :50:45.can take that line. You cannot name one case where this would have
:50:46. > :50:49.solved the problems which you don't have now. There is not a single case
:50:49. > :50:55.you can point to where this would have been prevented with this
:50:55. > :51:00.information. This is one of the crucial thing is that is required in
:51:00. > :51:04.prosecuting serious cases and I cannot see what the problem is with
:51:04. > :51:09.maintaining this capability. Indeed in the Queen's speech it was
:51:09. > :51:14.mentioned that we try to get IP addresses. We know they are crucial,
:51:14. > :51:17.we know that when you are doing these investigations, being able to
:51:17. > :51:23.identify who people are talking to, where they were, these things are
:51:23. > :51:30.very important and we are just tying one hand behind the back. The real
:51:30. > :51:35.problem is I think looking into e-mails, and a lot of private
:51:35. > :51:40.companies do this. I want to ask about lobbying. What do you think
:51:40. > :51:44.about what some of your colleagues appear to have been up to? If the
:51:44. > :51:52.rules have been broken, action should be taken and it does look
:51:52. > :51:56.awful from the clips I have seen. wrongdoing has been proved by
:51:56. > :52:03.members of the House of Lords for example, and they get into a lot of
:52:03. > :52:05.trouble for it, should they still be in the House of Lords? I think if
:52:05. > :52:10.people are proved to have comprehensively broken the rules,
:52:10. > :52:14.there should be a mechanism by which people should cease to be in the
:52:14. > :52:20.House of Lords. I think it would be right they should go because it
:52:20. > :52:25.makes the average man in the street think I'm on a minute, they should
:52:25. > :52:30.maintain certain standards. I don't know the details of the expulsion
:52:30. > :52:34.mechanism of the House of Lords and I don't want to comment on the guilt
:52:34. > :52:38.or innocence of the individuals concerned. There is nothing wrong
:52:38. > :52:45.with lobbying, I get lobbied every day, but it has got to be
:52:45. > :52:50.transparent and clear what is going on. That is the real requirement.
:52:50. > :52:53.Thank you. Now we have a news update for you. Three members of the House
:52:53. > :53:00.of Lords have been accused of agreeing to carry out Parliamentary
:53:01. > :53:03.work for payment. Labour peers Lord Cunningham and Lord Brian Mackenzie,
:53:03. > :53:06.and the Ulster Unionist Lord Laird were filmed by undercover reporters
:53:06. > :53:12.who were pretending to be from fictitious companies. All three
:53:12. > :53:21.peers have denied breaking any rules. Speaking on this programme,
:53:21. > :53:26.Douglas Alexander called for cross-party negotiations, saying any
:53:26. > :53:30.person would be angry about the latest allegations. I am angry that
:53:30. > :53:35.this seems to be happening in parliament and angry as a politician
:53:35. > :53:39.that the good name of the endeavour of politics, trying to find shared
:53:39. > :53:45.solutions to shared problems is once again smeared by what appears to be
:53:45. > :53:49.conduct that cannot be defended. also talked about the situation in
:53:49. > :53:54.Syria and called into question the British government's judgement in
:53:54. > :54:03.pushing for the EU arms embargo to be lifted. He said he feared that
:54:03. > :54:05.was a wrong decision because Syria was already awash with weapons and
:54:05. > :54:07.the possibility of receiving more might discourage the rebels from
:54:07. > :54:14.taking part in peace talks planned in Geneva next month. The next news
:54:14. > :54:19.on BBC One is just before six o'clock. Now let's look at what is
:54:19. > :54:22.coming up after the show. We will have big questions on the
:54:22. > :54:32.environment, asking if man's dominion has been good for the
:54:32. > :54:35.
:54:35. > :54:41.planet. BBC One at ten o'clock. We welcome back Douglas Alexander,
:54:41. > :54:45.Lord David Davis, Lord West and the musician Alison Moyet whose new
:54:45. > :54:52.album is just out. Welcome to the programme. I read that you said this
:54:52. > :54:58.album has been your most enjoyable studio experience, how come? On this
:54:58. > :55:08.occasion I have taken stuff away from the record companies making
:55:08. > :55:08.
:55:08. > :55:14.them. At this stage in your career, the only thing anyone wants to make
:55:14. > :55:22.is a best of album. I made it just with Gary, who is playing with me
:55:22. > :55:31.today, and I was happy because he didn't argue! How long ago was this?
:55:31. > :55:37.It looks like the 1980s to me. 1987 perhaps? You were happier with
:55:37. > :55:44.the music then, but happier now? used to play the pub circuit and pop
:55:44. > :55:47.just happened to me so I learnt my job as I was doing it. Consequently
:55:47. > :55:53.later on you look back and think I might not have made those choices if
:55:53. > :55:58.I had had a better learning ground. I remember the first time I ever did
:55:58. > :56:04.television, I did top of the Pops and they started filming, and I
:56:04. > :56:11.thought I haven't even figured out what I am going to do with my feet!
:56:11. > :56:17.I love your new album, I will let you get ready to do a track from it.
:56:17. > :56:27.You are here on good morning, we have had Alison Moyet, Beyonce...
:56:27. > :56:29.
:56:29. > :56:33.will get a lot of cred from our kids! That's almost it for today.
:56:33. > :56:36.Sophie Raworth will be here next Sunday at nine on BBC One, and
:56:36. > :56:39.she'll be joined by the former Tory MP turned ballroom dancer, Ann
:56:39. > :56:42.Widdecombe, and the actor Dan Stevens will be here to discuss life
:56:42. > :56:52.after Downton Abbey. Until then, we leave you now with Alison Moyet.
:56:52. > :57:08.
:57:08. > :57:18.From her new album, this is pictures in a dream # no dumping
:57:18. > :57:41.
:57:41. > :57:51.# you jumped too soon, something beautiful happened. # All there is
:57:51. > :57:57.
:57:57. > :58:07.are these beautiful minutes # we will wait on, we will wait on # I
:58:07. > :58:08.
:58:08. > :58:18.fell into a cinema, I didn't know where else to be # sitting out the
:58:18. > :58:18.
:58:18. > :58:28.trip or three, I thought I wanted frippery # that girl five seats down
:58:28. > :58:47.