:00:34. > :00:48.Good morning. The week ahead is going to be dominated by the Autumn
:00:49. > :00:51.Statement. Sadly, that's got nothing to do with oak leaves turning gold,
:00:52. > :00:54.or mists or mellow fruitfulness. It's about how much money the
:00:55. > :00:58.government has, or hasn't, and what it's going to do with it. This year,
:00:59. > :01:01.for the first time ever, George Osborne can celebrate growth,
:01:02. > :01:05.stronger growth in Britain than in any other major economy in the
:01:06. > :01:07.world, but there's a paradox. Millions of people still feel
:01:08. > :01:14.worried, over-borrowed and scared about the future. A strong recovery
:01:15. > :01:19.in a weak economy. Is that the story of Britain today?
:01:20. > :01:22.Picking over economic themes and much more in the papers today, Shami
:01:23. > :01:25.Chakrabarti, the director of the human rights organisation Liberty,
:01:26. > :01:31.and the actor and activist Jim Carter.
:01:32. > :01:36.A giveaway for people struggling with their energy bills, ?50 a head.
:01:37. > :01:39.That's going to be a centrepiece of the Autumn Statement, according to
:01:40. > :01:46.the papers. Really? A cast-iron guarantee? And who'll pay for it?
:01:47. > :01:49.Lots of questions still, but luckily, the man who can help us
:01:50. > :01:52.answer those questions, George Osborne, is with us in the studio
:01:53. > :01:55.ahead of his big day. So too is his chief critic, indeed
:01:56. > :02:11.his chief tormentor, the Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls. He used to
:02:12. > :02:13.infuriate the PM by making this gesture at Prime Minister's
:02:14. > :02:17.Questions, flatline. The economy's flat-lining. No recovery. Get it?
:02:18. > :02:19.Has he got a new gesture? We'll talk to both men later.
:02:20. > :02:23.It's all about justice, really, which is good because I've also been
:02:24. > :02:27.meeting an iconic lawman, the actor Martin Shaw. Famous for TV roles
:02:28. > :02:30.such as Judge Deed and Doyle in The Professionals, Shaw is back on the
:02:31. > :02:35.West End stage, starring in 12 Angry Men. And apart from tough guys from
:02:36. > :02:47.drama, and front line politics, we've some great live music. Robyn
:02:48. > :02:51.Hitchcock, once of the Softboys, will be playing us out. First,
:02:52. > :02:56.though, the news from Sally Nugent. Good morning. A rescue and recovery
:02:57. > :02:59.operation is continuing at a pub in Glasgow where a police helicopter
:03:00. > :03:03.crashed into the roof killing at least eight people on Friday night.
:03:04. > :03:06.One of the victims has been named as Gary Arthur, a 48--year-old from
:03:07. > :03:09.Paisley in Scotland. 14 people remain in hospital with very serious
:03:10. > :03:14.injuries. Nick Beake reports. Nearly 36 hours on, they still have
:03:15. > :03:18.not unable to recover all the victims of this horrific crash. But
:03:19. > :03:26.the body of 48-year-old Gary Arthur has now been removed. The three crew
:03:27. > :03:32.on board the helicopter also died. Our hearts go out to everyone who
:03:33. > :03:37.has been bereaved. It is impossible to imagine the grief and loss that
:03:38. > :03:41.they are experiencing. But they should know that the thoughts and
:03:42. > :03:44.prayers of everyone across the city and indeed across Scotland are with
:03:45. > :03:50.them at this unimaginably difficult time. 14 people who were seriously
:03:51. > :03:56.injured has spent another night in hospitals across Glasgow. The police
:03:57. > :04:03.are now asking eyewitnesses to send photographs and videos, to help
:04:04. > :04:09.crash investigators. As for the recovery teams, it is difficult
:04:10. > :04:12.work. Imagine the situation, the helicopter has come down and is
:04:13. > :04:17.almost literally sitting in the middle of the building. Until that
:04:18. > :04:24.is resolved, we cannot know everything that is in that building.
:04:25. > :04:32.This is the type of helicopter that cash -- that crashed, a twin
:04:33. > :04:42.engined, EC one 35. Its makers have now sent their own investigator to
:04:43. > :04:44.Glasgow, a city that needs answers. -- EC-135.
:04:45. > :04:48.Our correspondent Laura Bicker is at the scene in Glasgow this morning.
:04:49. > :04:52.What is happening there this morning?
:04:53. > :04:55.A major operation is underway. We understand that cables are being
:04:56. > :05:01.attached to the helicopter which is still embedded in the roof of The
:05:02. > :05:05.Clutha pub. The cables will be attached in the next few hours and
:05:06. > :05:12.we understand that the aim is to lift the from the roof. If we zoom
:05:13. > :05:18.in closely, I think you can probably see the work going on. This is very
:05:19. > :05:22.delicate work. They need to do it to things, they need to preserve the
:05:23. > :05:39.scenes for accident and the actors and the need to preserve as much of
:05:40. > :05:42.the helicopter as possible. -- they need to preserve the scene for
:05:43. > :05:47.accident investigators. Meanwhile, prayers will be said for those who
:05:48. > :05:54.lost their lives. There will be a special service at Glasgow Cathedral
:05:55. > :05:57.shortly. Thank you. Plans to reduce energy bills by ?50
:05:58. > :06:01.a year have been announced by David Cameron and Nick Clegg. They say
:06:02. > :06:04.that in the future, energy saving schemes will be paid for through
:06:05. > :06:07.general taxation, rather than a levy on household bills. They were
:06:08. > :06:11.writing in a joint article for the Sunday Sun newspaper on the same day
:06:12. > :06:14.that the energy firm npower puts up its prices by an average of 10.4%.
:06:15. > :06:18.Five of the big six energy firms have all announced price rises this
:06:19. > :06:21.winter. SSE and British Gas have already implemented those price
:06:22. > :06:34.rises and today, and power join that list. -- npower. Their charges go up
:06:35. > :06:39.by 6%. The average bill will rise by 6.7% this winter, meaning that the
:06:40. > :06:44.average dual fuel bill will now stand at ?1444. That is almost
:06:45. > :06:53.trebled what we were paying ten years ago. Another major cause for
:06:54. > :06:58.household raise rises has been the cost of transporting gas and power
:06:59. > :07:02.around the country. That has jumped by 67% by 2007. The biggest
:07:03. > :07:06.proportional jumping cost to build bills of late has been the
:07:07. > :07:11.government schemes to help less well-off households to make homes
:07:12. > :07:14.more energy efficient. In a newspaper article today, the Prime
:07:15. > :07:18.Minister and Deputy Prime Minister said the government with Linpac the
:07:19. > :07:22.impact of these measures on our household bills by spreading the
:07:23. > :07:26.costs over a longer time period. They also said that subsidising
:07:27. > :07:29.bills for the poorest households would soon be paid for out of
:07:30. > :07:33.general taxation thanks to clamp down on tax avoidance.
:07:34. > :07:37.Riot police in the Thai capital have fired tear gas at protesters trying
:07:38. > :07:39.to force their way into the Prime Minister's office and the Bangkok
:07:40. > :07:42.police headquarters. Thousands of troops have been deployed to support
:07:43. > :07:46.the riot police who've been protecting the key ministries in the
:07:47. > :07:48.city. Two people were killed and dozens more wounded yesterday when
:07:49. > :07:56.pro and anti-government groups clashed at a rally in the capital.
:07:57. > :07:59.Today is the eighth day of protests. The American film star Paul Walker
:08:00. > :08:05.has been killed in a car crash north of Los Angeles. Reports say the
:08:06. > :08:09.40-year-old actor was the passenger in a Porsche when it crashed into a
:08:10. > :08:15.tree and burst into flames. The driver also died. Paul Walker was
:08:16. > :08:18.best known for his roles in the Fast And Furious films, a series about
:08:19. > :08:21.illegal street racing. That's all from me. I'll be back with the
:08:22. > :08:25.headlines just before ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew.
:08:26. > :08:31.Thank you. Now to the papers. The papers are dominated by the terrible
:08:32. > :08:36.Scottish helicopter crash. This is the Observer, Scotland mourns its
:08:37. > :08:41.stead. The Sunday Express has not have a story for once about and says
:08:42. > :08:48.Diana. It has a proper old-fashioned newspaper front page, heroism amid
:08:49. > :08:53.the horror. The Telegraph has devoted much of its front page to
:08:54. > :08:59.the same story. The paper with the most interesting coverage inside its
:09:00. > :09:02.Scotland on Sunday. The mail on Sunday's political editor is
:09:03. > :09:08.carrying on with his story that he broke last week about Wendi Murdoch
:09:09. > :09:14.and Tony Blair. The scary as six words in British politics, good
:09:15. > :09:21.morning, it is Simon Walters here. I think Tony Blair must be feeling
:09:22. > :09:27.that this morning. Finally, UK schools stuck at the back of the
:09:28. > :09:30.class, in the Sunday Times. We were talking about those figures with
:09:31. > :09:33.Michael Gove last week. They are confirmed this morning. And with me
:09:34. > :09:36.to review the papers are Shami Chakrabarti and Jim Carter.
:09:37. > :09:41.You have the Sunday Telegraph there. I have got the Sunday
:09:42. > :09:47.Telegraph. Most papers have led with this. I have got Scotland on
:09:48. > :09:52.Sunday. I do not think there is much to add, speculation. It is an
:09:53. > :09:58.enormous tragedy for those involved. It highlights the fact that we are
:09:59. > :10:03.always trying to mitigate against risk. We should not eat the sword be
:10:04. > :10:08.that, and you can be sitting in your favourite pub on a Saturday night
:10:09. > :10:12.and something falls out of the sky. By all accounts, this was an amazing
:10:13. > :10:19.pub. Billy Connolly used to perform there. It had a music scene and a
:10:20. > :10:25.lovely open fire. It was a very special place. Condolences to those
:10:26. > :10:30.who have lost people. We hope for some kind of enquiry into what went
:10:31. > :10:33.wrong with this helicopter. It is one of those stories with massive
:10:34. > :10:39.amounts of coverage, but there is not a lot to add until the enquiry
:10:40. > :10:45.starts. It is a dreadful thing to have happened. Where are we going to
:10:46. > :10:50.move next? I think we will go to the main political story, this green
:10:51. > :11:00.tax. Yes, it looks like we are back to the Rose Garden to some extent,
:11:01. > :11:04.because we have this in the sand. The one heartening thing, and I am
:11:05. > :11:08.not an expect any economics, is that at least we have both the government
:11:09. > :11:13.and the opposition parties attempting to compete with each
:11:14. > :11:17.other on energy security. That is a massive thing for families,
:11:18. > :11:22.countries and the world. Whether this package, which is not set out
:11:23. > :11:34.in detail in the sun, but it seems to be about a little incentive he
:11:35. > :11:37.and their two insulated your loft. Whether it will be enough for people
:11:38. > :11:46.who are worried about fuel bills this winter, I do not know. I
:11:47. > :11:52.usually start reading papers at the back with the sport and give up long
:11:53. > :11:56.before I get to the front pages. But I do not understand, why do I get
:11:57. > :12:08.200 pounds winter fuel allowance, whiny? You're talking about 50 quid.
:12:09. > :12:11.It seems crazy. I am happy to get it because I pass it to the charity of
:12:12. > :12:17.my choice, but I think this needs looking at in a lot of detail.
:12:18. > :12:22.Saving ?50 from the electricity bill and linking it to tax dodgers and
:12:23. > :12:28.benefits grounders, and saying that the government, by a con I is a
:12:29. > :12:34.beer, will take a certain amount out of the taxable. It was not make
:12:35. > :12:39.sense. It does not inspire you? No. It seems a little bit like fiddling
:12:40. > :12:43.while Rome is burning. We will be talking about that with the
:12:44. > :12:53.Chancellor later on. What is your next story? I have chosen another
:12:54. > :12:58.observer study -- another story from the Observer. Other papers are
:12:59. > :13:04.running with the report about the cost of green policies. They say it
:13:05. > :13:09.will be 85 billion. There is a scepticism underlying this report.
:13:10. > :13:14.As if this is all waste? Yes, and I worry about the cost of not looking
:13:15. > :13:19.at climate change and climate security. Whatever your position on
:13:20. > :13:26.these things, it does seem to be one of the biggest questions facing the
:13:27. > :13:30.world today, which is why I think... Gem, he is a supportive of
:13:31. > :13:37.Greenpeace. His colleagues, if you like, from Greenpeace are still in
:13:38. > :13:40.Russia, mercifully not in prison but detained on bail. We need to get
:13:41. > :13:47.these issues on the agenda peacefully. Hopefully they will not
:13:48. > :13:53.republished by -- hopefully they will might be punished by
:13:54. > :14:00.prosecution. I understand there is a hope of a pardon from the president.
:14:01. > :14:06.Yes. There is one figure, that said it is going to cost is ?85 billion
:14:07. > :14:11.in the next ten years. But if we go to a low carbon economy, we could
:14:12. > :14:18.save $2.3 billion each year, $1 trillion each year. You are a great
:14:19. > :14:23.Greenpeace supporter? I am. I started some porting Greenpeace when
:14:24. > :14:29.the French government soffit to sink the rainbow Warrior back in 1985.
:14:30. > :14:41.Now I think you have made a short film about Greenpeace. We have a
:14:42. > :14:46.brief clip of it. I think you're playing Father Christmas. We have
:14:47. > :14:53.been here for some time. Melting ice. The North Pole has made our
:14:54. > :15:03.operations and our day-to-day life intolerable. And impossible. There
:15:04. > :15:14.may be no alternative but to cancel Christmas. 1 million weeping
:15:15. > :15:22.children! It is a bit scary. It is. It is Santana like a hostage, in the
:15:23. > :15:27.North Pole, his home. -- Santa. But it is melting and it is time to draw
:15:28. > :15:33.a line in the ice and say stop for the benefit of all our children. The
:15:34. > :15:37.children will hate that. But you want them to grow up knowing about
:15:38. > :15:43.polar bears living freely in the Arctic? Of course we do. We want to
:15:44. > :15:48.save Santa Claus and we think we can. Save his home. So it is the
:15:49. > :15:54.season of goodwill, not just in the Arctic but closer to home as well.
:15:55. > :16:00.The Observer tells us, and this is a story of me looking far too young, I
:16:01. > :16:04.might add, but local authorities want tougher powers to arrest
:16:05. > :16:09.homeless people, essentially. They are making the place look messy.
:16:10. > :16:12.These are people that they called aggressive beggars, but aggressive
:16:13. > :16:17.begging is already a criminal offence. They want tougher powers in
:16:18. > :16:22.anti-social behaviour legislation to sweep these people up off the
:16:23. > :16:26.streets. A very Merry Christmas to these lovely local councillors who
:16:27. > :16:30.have written this letter to the Government. No room at the end? Why
:16:31. > :16:39.not give some money to the bag and feel better about life? -- to the
:16:40. > :16:43.beggar. I don't know. We have talked about the cost of climate change
:16:44. > :16:49.already. One story relates to your day job, as it were. Michelle, your
:16:50. > :16:55.co-conspirator on Downton Abbey, is doing her bit for African children.
:16:56. > :17:05.Lovely lady may has been to Jordan to look at Syrian refugee camps. --
:17:06. > :17:12.Lady Mary. This is in the Mail on Sunday. It is highlighting the
:17:13. > :17:18.problem that we are all recognising, which is enormous now. I cannot see
:17:19. > :17:24.the figures. 120,000 Syrians in one refugee camp. She had gone out and
:17:25. > :17:29.shot the big spotlight on this. She has written an article asking people
:17:30. > :17:34.to sign up to Oxfam. She has chosen a noncontroversial subject but
:17:35. > :17:38.climate change is still controversial. Lots of people will
:17:39. > :17:43.disagree. It is interesting that when you go to visit a refugee camp
:17:44. > :17:47.over there it is not controversial. If you try to speak up for the
:17:48. > :17:51.precious few asylum seekers and refugees who make it to a country
:17:52. > :17:55.like the UK, then it is controversial because of the
:17:56. > :18:00.toxicity of the debate over migration, whether it is immigration
:18:01. > :18:05.or asylum in this country. It is interesting that you say that. Would
:18:06. > :18:11.this run if it was about people detained in detention centres in the
:18:12. > :18:16.UK? I wonder. Let's turn to another story, Boris Johnson's big speech of
:18:17. > :18:29.the week. Surprise, surprise, the big speech is Boris Johnson but he
:18:30. > :18:34.has not had happy headlines. And a witty story in the Observer again.
:18:35. > :18:44.People who are smart and not so smart. I went to see The Hunger
:18:45. > :18:55.Games movie, where they have people in the Capital versus the people
:18:56. > :18:57.outside. They are talking about the species, suggesting there are
:18:58. > :19:03.epsilon is down there who don't deserve things. The Mayor of London
:19:04. > :19:08.is a talented politician and this seems to have been a moment when the
:19:09. > :19:12.talent has not been best spent. It is not a great thing for a
:19:13. > :19:17.Conservative politician at the time of austerity to say this. It is like
:19:18. > :19:22.Downton Abbey. In the 80s it was Brideshead revisited and now we have
:19:23. > :19:27.austerity and a Conservative led Government and Downton Abbey. He is
:19:28. > :19:32.going back to pure Thatcherism. One of the most Thatcherite candidates
:19:33. > :19:37.of the Tory leadership. The buffoon, the Crown Prince of Thatcher's
:19:38. > :19:44.court. I am still getting used to the sight of you without a white tie
:19:45. > :19:50.on. You look improperly dressed. I can only apologise. You also have a
:19:51. > :19:54.story of pantomime dames. Let's lighten the mood. A marvellously
:19:55. > :20:02.titled database are pantomime performance. A database. Sounds
:20:03. > :20:13.dangerous to me. Are you on it? I am not. I had a brief brush with
:20:14. > :20:20.pantomime in 1983 when I was at an answer -- I was in Aladdin. Men
:20:21. > :20:24.dressing as women isn't funny any more. I think it is down to the
:20:25. > :20:29.quality of the performance rather than anything else. Yes. And Downton
:20:30. > :20:35.Abbey, you have done the Christmas special already. In the can. Do you
:20:36. > :20:39.have a long time off or is Downton Abbey for ever and ever? It will
:20:40. > :20:45.start again in February, series five. It is a well upholstered
:20:46. > :20:51.treadmill. Yes, remarkable. I have just come back from Stockholm where
:20:52. > :20:59.one in nine people in Sweden watched Downton Abbey. Explain that! The
:21:00. > :21:03.birthplace of social democracy. And we are watching The Killing! The
:21:04. > :21:10.Chinese are watching it in their millions. Explain that. December is
:21:11. > :21:18.upon us. Winter in all its chilly glory. Yes, a contrast in the
:21:19. > :21:24.weather this week. We saw lots of sunshine across Wales and South West
:21:25. > :21:28.England this week but now it is cloudy. Mostly dry apart from the
:21:29. > :21:32.odd spot of rain and drizzle over western coastal areas. The best
:21:33. > :21:38.sunshine will be across the East of the Pennines and into central and
:21:39. > :21:41.southern and eastern Scotland. Light rain and drizzle affecting the
:21:42. > :21:48.higher ground of the South West after a very chilly start here.
:21:49. > :21:52.Temperatures slowly rising. Cloud across the Midlands and the South
:21:53. > :21:57.East. For Wales, cloud will be thick enough for the odd spot of rain.
:21:58. > :22:03.Similar pictures in Northern Ireland but we could see temperatures up to
:22:04. > :22:08.10 degrees in Belfast. Into Monday, it starts off on a rather chilly
:22:09. > :22:12.note, but there will be mist and fog in the East. That will gradually
:22:13. > :22:17.lift and then it will be another benign day for many areas with cloud
:22:18. > :22:23.and glimmers of brightness. Signs of change in the North West corners of
:22:24. > :22:26.Scotland. Outbreaks of rain becoming more persistent. Much colder by the
:22:27. > :22:33.time we reach the latter part of next week.
:22:34. > :22:37.If it is the job of an opposition spokesman to get under the skin of
:22:38. > :22:41.the Government, Ed Balls is an all-time gold winning champion. He
:22:42. > :22:45.drives them nuts. It is partly the relentless mockery about a lack of
:22:46. > :22:51.recovery. Now he is promising a new, long-term, Labour plan. In the
:22:52. > :22:57.Sunday Mirror and you are talking about a long-term plan to rebuild
:22:58. > :23:01.the economy. The huge house building scheme, how many houses and when?
:23:02. > :23:05.Our goal is 200,000 by the end of the decade. We would like to do
:23:06. > :23:09.more. We have the lowest level of house building at the moment since
:23:10. > :23:15.the 1920s. If you are boosting help to supply demand, but supply is low,
:23:16. > :23:19.then the price goes up and many people will be locked out of the
:23:20. > :23:23.housing market. We have to build homes and get people back to work
:23:24. > :23:27.and make housing affordable. You sound like that Tory house-builder
:23:28. > :23:32.Harold Macmillan. I am happy to have that comparison. New towns, in
:23:33. > :23:37.effect. Do you know where they will go? We have asked Sir Michael Lyons
:23:38. > :23:42.to do a review over the next year. We need to look at what we will do
:23:43. > :23:46.on planning and finance. We are clear. Every community will have to
:23:47. > :23:51.make a contribution. I want to protect valuable green belt and
:23:52. > :23:55.greenfield land. We don't want to disrupt communities. Brown field
:23:56. > :24:10.burst. But the reality is that we need some vision, some new towns,
:24:11. > :24:14.garden cities. We did it in the 40s and after the Second World War. We
:24:15. > :24:16.need to do that again. To be fair to David Cameron and Nick Clegg, one
:24:17. > :24:19.year ago they were saying the same but it has all gone quiet. It will
:24:20. > :24:22.take a Labour Government to build the homes that we need for our
:24:23. > :24:24.people and to get the jobs. The Conservatives say again and again
:24:25. > :24:27.that you have not got the money to do everything you want to do and you
:24:28. > :24:31.will have to raise taxes. Looking further ahead, would you want to run
:24:32. > :24:36.a surplus when the economy carries on improving, like George Osborne? I
:24:37. > :24:39.have said that I have set out how we will get the national that falling
:24:40. > :24:43.and getting the budget back into balance, into surplus would be the
:24:44. > :24:48.right thing to do. When we can do that depends on the economy. George
:24:49. > :24:53.was saying that it would be by 2015 and he has had to delay that to
:24:54. > :25:00.2020. I cannot tell you when we can do it but by 2016, we will match
:25:01. > :25:04.their borrowing and spending plans. There will be tough decisions. Do
:25:05. > :25:08.you have an ambition in the next Parliament to get the finances into
:25:09. > :25:14.surplus? We will set out clear fiscal rules in our manifesto which
:25:15. > :25:21.will get things back into surplus and the national debt falling.
:25:22. > :25:31.But...? It all depends on surplus? It depends on growth in the economy.
:25:32. > :25:38.If you don't have gross, -- growth, then you have national debt. I am
:25:39. > :25:42.not going to say to you when it will be but we want the budget back into
:25:43. > :25:47.balance and the national debt falling. I have said to the office
:25:48. > :25:52.when the responsibility -- the Office for Budget Responsibility
:25:53. > :25:56.that we have to finish the job that George Osborne has not managed to
:25:57. > :26:00.do. In the first year of a Labour Government you will stick to the
:26:01. > :26:06.Conservative spending plans. Will you have to do things going further
:26:07. > :26:12.than that? The Government has already set out plans and we have
:26:13. > :26:16.said that we will match them on current spending. We will do things
:26:17. > :26:18.differently. We will take away the winter allowance for the richest
:26:19. > :26:24.pensioners, as you were discussing in the paper review. Households are
:26:25. > :26:28.paying more tax and struggling. Living standards are falling. At the
:26:29. > :26:32.same time we are facing a winter crisis in the National Health
:26:33. > :26:36.Service. We cannot have a strong economy without the infrastructure
:26:37. > :26:43.and the education system. How do you get the budget balanced down? That
:26:44. > :26:49.is what I am asking. How do you invest? Only by having a strong
:26:50. > :26:54.economy built to last. But how do you get there, in your view? That is
:26:55. > :26:58.the big question. You are going to have to borrow more but you cannot
:26:59. > :27:02.borrow much more. You are going to inherit a huge debt and massive
:27:03. > :27:09.private debt as well. How worried are you about private debt? But
:27:10. > :27:14.isn't it the other way round in this Parliament? As we have seen. If you
:27:15. > :27:19.have three years of flat-lining, the national debt goes up. You can't do
:27:20. > :27:24.that anymore. What is the new gesture? It have to be demonstrated
:27:25. > :27:28.on Sunday morning television! If I had known that flat-lining would
:27:29. > :27:31.last three years, I might have thought twice about doing the
:27:32. > :27:36.gesture in the first place. Three years underperforming on growth. Now
:27:37. > :27:46.we are doing better any major economy in the developed world. That
:27:47. > :27:49.is good. Of course, but from a very low base. For families it is not a
:27:50. > :27:53.recovery because living standards are falling month by month. If
:27:54. > :27:58.George boasts about a recovery which may be there for the City, but for
:27:59. > :28:05.most people is not there at all, I fear it will make him look more out
:28:06. > :28:10.of touch. France is pursuing under Francois Hollande policies you would
:28:11. > :28:15.like to pursue. Hang on a second. France is in a single currency, the
:28:16. > :28:20.euro, which rightly back in 2001 we decided not to join, a very good
:28:21. > :28:26.decision. America and Germany, they are both well above where they were
:28:27. > :28:32.in 2007. We are doing better than them at the moment. But we are 2.5%
:28:33. > :28:38.below our precrisis peak. We have so much to catch up and it have to
:28:39. > :28:43.translate to working people. I need to take you on to green taxes, the
:28:44. > :28:48.big story of the day. Do you like the proposal? It is in The Son, so
:28:49. > :28:54.let us see what George announces on Thursday. They are talking about
:28:55. > :28:59.delaying eco-, which might be a good thing in terms of value for money.
:29:00. > :29:03.They are shifting energy bills onto the taxpayer. That is not a putt,
:29:04. > :29:11.just shifting the burden. Fundamentally, what is happening?
:29:12. > :29:21.Energy prices are going up by ?120, ?130, a ?50 cut when they are going
:29:22. > :29:26.up by twice that is no good. I asked George if he would stop bills
:29:27. > :29:29.rising. They failed the test. I would say to get back to the drawing
:29:30. > :29:34.board and come up with the policy. We have had lots of U-turns
:29:35. > :29:40.already. Have another and freeze the bills. They would say that the
:29:41. > :29:44.problem is that the energy companies whack up the bills, the freeze comes
:29:45. > :29:49.in, and then they don't drop them and people pay more rather than
:29:50. > :29:54.less. You can't freeze the bills for ever. They are the Government. I
:29:55. > :29:57.think they should get a grip. Why do David Cameron and George Osborne run
:29:58. > :30:02.scared in the face of energy companies to have been putting up
:30:03. > :30:08.bills every year? Just answer this point. What is to stop the energy
:30:09. > :30:13.companies raising their prices before freeze and then after the
:30:14. > :30:17.freeze putting them up again? Is the energy companies came together as a
:30:18. > :30:21.cartel to put up prices to pre-empt Government action, that would be a
:30:22. > :30:25.total abuse of market power and any sensible regulator would step in and
:30:26. > :30:29.stop it happening. I don't think they will do that even though they
:30:30. > :30:34.are putting up the bills. We are saying we should reform the market.
:30:35. > :30:52.Proper regulator. Transparency. Brake distribution from production.
:30:53. > :30:54.That will take 20 months and in the meantime we will freeze the bills.
:30:55. > :31:06.They should do the right thing and make the companies pay back the
:31:07. > :31:12.excess profits. People do not know what George Osborne's policy is on
:31:13. > :31:18.green energy. I think we need long-term investment. Christmas is
:31:19. > :31:26.coming. Yes or no, can you welcome this move to bring down energy
:31:27. > :31:33.prices? Anything they can do is better than nothing. But people will
:31:34. > :31:45.still a more bills. Is there a price freeze? No. George Osborne is
:31:46. > :31:57.failing the test. Ed Balls, I can see why you edited them. Thank you
:31:58. > :32:01.very much. -- why you irritate them. Thank you. As an actor, Martin Shaw
:32:02. > :32:04.says he enjoys playing legal figures more than anything else. His most
:32:05. > :32:07.popular roles have included Judge John Deed on TV, and on stage, that
:32:08. > :32:11.martyred lawyer, Sir Thomas More. Shaw is back in London's West End in
:32:12. > :32:15.a legal classic from the '50s, one that Henry Fonda immortalised on
:32:16. > :32:19.screen. 12 Angry Men is a play about justice, and not being afraid to
:32:20. > :32:22.take a stand. When we met, the news had not yet been announced of the
:32:23. > :32:25.death of Lewis Collins, his co-star in The Professionals, but we did
:32:26. > :32:28.discuss that hit series and its lasting appeal. First, though,
:32:29. > :32:31.Martin Shaw told me about 12 Angry Men and his role as a juror with a
:32:32. > :32:34.conscience. This is a man who is the classic
:32:35. > :32:36.1950s American. He loves the constitution, he loves his country.
:32:37. > :32:44.He almost certainly fought in the war. It is Henry Fonda. Yes. Having
:32:45. > :32:50.seen the film, I realised quickly I could not play it the way that Henry
:32:51. > :32:56.Fonda did. Henry Fonda brings Henry Fonda to the screen. He knows what
:32:57. > :33:01.his background is. I had to impose something else on it. It is a kind
:33:02. > :33:07.of infallibility that you do not yet from Henry Fonda. Basically I think
:33:08. > :33:09.this is a man who is a passionate lever in the Constitution and the
:33:10. > :33:17.American way of life in its purest form. What do you want? Nothing, I
:33:18. > :33:24.just want to talk. What is there to talk about. No one else had to think
:33:25. > :33:30.about this. Let me ask you a question, or you believe his story?
:33:31. > :33:36.I do not know if I believe it or not. Then why did you vote not
:33:37. > :33:42.guilty? It is not easy for me to send a boy off to die without
:33:43. > :33:47.talking about it first. Who says it is easy for me? I honestly think the
:33:48. > :33:56.guys guilty. You will not change my mind if you talk 100 years. It is an
:33:57. > :34:01.all white jury. It is a very different time and the justice is
:34:02. > :34:04.about to be perpetrated on a young black guy. Does it have any
:34:05. > :34:11.relevance today, the justice system that we live under? Yes, I think it
:34:12. > :34:17.does. People will point out that it is an all-male and in all white
:34:18. > :34:23.jury. That is of the time. That is how it was when it was written in
:34:24. > :34:31.1957. But I think that the concepts of justice and morality... The
:34:32. > :34:36.portents of jury trials... Yes, thank you. Everything is
:34:37. > :34:41.encapsulated here. I am told that this play is used as a study tool
:34:42. > :34:47.for students of psychology. He is 16 years old. That is old enough. He
:34:48. > :34:55.knifed his own father, four inches into the chest. I was convinced from
:34:56. > :34:59.the first day. A year never goes by when did is not a big television
:35:00. > :35:07.vehicle for Martin Shaw of one kind or another. George Gently, Judge
:35:08. > :35:16.John Deed. But every Christmas, you're back on the West End stage?
:35:17. > :35:21.Yes, pretty much. Why is that? I do not know. It is part of the craft. I
:35:22. > :35:28.do this because I love it. This is the chocolate wedding, if you like.
:35:29. > :35:33.It is a privilege and a light to do this play every night. My years at
:35:34. > :35:41.drama school, this was the road to Damascus. Drama school, when I went
:35:42. > :35:47.there, it was as much a psychoanalytical process as a
:35:48. > :35:52.learning process. Being on stage is the fundamental expression of that
:35:53. > :35:58.craft. You can get away with a lot on camera, but you cannot get away
:35:59. > :36:01.with that on stage. You came out of drama school and you did some in
:36:02. > :36:22.Portland classical roles, Shakespeare. Then comes The
:36:23. > :36:32.Professionals. -- some important classical roles. Huge quantities of
:36:33. > :36:36.here. It is very embarrassing. That takes you away from what you were
:36:37. > :36:40.doing before? Yes. I did not think it would run as long as it had and I
:36:41. > :36:46.did not think it would he has popularise it was. Also, with
:36:47. > :36:58.incredible naivety, I thought that if I said, I would like to go now,
:36:59. > :37:05.they would say fine. It's got criticised a lot at the time. For
:37:06. > :37:11.being violent and course. But by today's standards, it is very
:37:12. > :37:15.gentle. Yes, we had all kind of extraordinary rules. We could punch
:37:16. > :37:22.people, but they could never bleed. We could ship people, but they had
:37:23. > :37:34.to die with their eyes closed. It is extraordinary, but it was of its
:37:35. > :37:43.time. -- we could shoot people. Adults have come to me and said, you
:37:44. > :37:51.are my childhood. The law allows for punitive damages to be awarded. I am
:37:52. > :38:03.awarding damages of ?3,500,000 for the distress caused. This is my
:38:04. > :38:07.principal grilling. -- ruling. Judge John Deed is quite unorthodox, and
:38:08. > :38:11.yet I gather that he is quite popular with the judiciary
:38:12. > :38:16.themselves. Absolutely. I have some close friends in the judiciary. They
:38:17. > :38:22.absolutely love it. He advocates the things that they themselves
:38:23. > :38:27.advocate. The government is trying to change the legal system. It is
:38:28. > :38:30.trying to change something that has been working wonderfully well for
:38:31. > :38:37.hundreds of years. It always amazes me that people who know nothing
:38:38. > :38:41.about a subject think they know better than people who have been
:38:42. > :38:49.doing it for a long time. It has been lovely talking to you. Thank
:38:50. > :38:55.you very much for coming in. Thank you. Martin Shaw, a lovely man.
:38:56. > :38:59.What a difference a year makes. When George Osborne gave his last Autumn
:39:00. > :39:03.Statement, the talk was all of a triple dip recession. Now the worry
:39:04. > :39:06.is that the recovery, driven by the housing market, could overheat. We
:39:07. > :39:09.heard Labour's take on the state of the economy earlier, and the
:39:10. > :39:11.Chancellor himself is with me now, good morning. Good morning. This
:39:12. > :39:16.green promise, are we going to see bills come down by ?50? We are going
:39:17. > :39:20.to roll back the levees that replaced by government on people's
:39:21. > :39:26.electricity bills. The average bill payer will have ?50 of electricity
:39:27. > :39:30.and gas. That will help families. We are doing this in the way that
:39:31. > :39:36.government can do it, we are controlling the cost. We are doing
:39:37. > :39:41.it in a way that will not damage the environment or reduce our commitment
:39:42. > :39:44.to dealing with climate change. We are not going to reduce our
:39:45. > :39:48.commitment to helping low-income families with their cost of living.
:39:49. > :39:52.We have heard from one of the energy companies so far. Have you got a
:39:53. > :39:58.promise from the energy companies that they will pass on this cut to
:39:59. > :40:06.their consumers? We have been in discussion with the energy
:40:07. > :40:09.companies. They will make their own announcements in due course, but we
:40:10. > :40:15.are clear that they have got to pass on any reduction. I am a believer in
:40:16. > :40:25.reducing taxes, reducing the cost of government. We can do this through
:40:26. > :40:29.energy bills. I am Andrew Marr energy. I cover a large swathes of
:40:30. > :40:34.the country. I'm going to be clear in my conversations with you that
:40:35. > :40:42.the ?50 is a cut, it will go to all my consumers? On average there will
:40:43. > :40:52.be ?50 of peoples bills. -- people's. We are insistent that this
:40:53. > :40:56.is passed on. This is not a con. We are not pretending that we can
:40:57. > :41:02.freeze the world gas price. What we are saying is, what can government
:41:03. > :41:09.do? We can step in and help. I am still not clear if they are going to
:41:10. > :41:13.pass it on to the consumer? I do not want to pre-empt what they are going
:41:14. > :41:19.to say. But I'm pretty clear that this is going to happen. You have
:41:20. > :41:23.delayed the insulation, the so-called eco-obligation. You have
:41:24. > :41:30.taken that away from the energy companies. But will be done more by
:41:31. > :41:35.government? Instead of penalising people for going green as a nation,
:41:36. > :41:40.by adding to electricity and gas bills, why not incentivise people?
:41:41. > :41:45.Why not give people ?1000 when you get a new home to make your home
:41:46. > :41:52.more energy efficient? That will cut your energy bills. That is the right
:41:53. > :41:57.approach to these issues. It is about providing people with carrots,
:41:58. > :42:02.not sticks. These are not inexpensive carrots, both on the
:42:03. > :42:07.energy company side, but also this ?1000 for everyone buying a new
:42:08. > :42:12.house to change the boiler and so on? Where will the money come from?
:42:13. > :42:17.The money will come from additional taxes, we will deal with tax
:42:18. > :42:21.avoidance. We will take tough measures which I will spell out on
:42:22. > :42:29.Thursday about how we make sure that people who are trying to avoid taxes
:42:30. > :42:34.pay their taxes. The vast majority of people do pay their taxes and
:42:35. > :42:41.they have expensive electricity and gas bills. This is a mixture of
:42:42. > :42:44.surprise then weedy, because every politician says that they will crack
:42:45. > :42:50.down on tax avoidance and it very rarely happens? I do not accept
:42:51. > :42:57.that. This government has taken step after step. The amount of tax we
:42:58. > :43:01.collect goes up every year. But this requires real changes to the tax
:43:02. > :43:07.law. I will set goes out properly to Parliament first. It it is about
:43:08. > :43:14.getting priorities right. -- it is about. We will make sure that our
:43:15. > :43:17.tax system is fair, that we help families, lifting people out of tax
:43:18. > :43:23.and increasing the personal allowance. Now we are delivering ?50
:43:24. > :43:29.of the average bill for people for heating and gas and electricity. Ed
:43:30. > :43:33.Miliband can take a little bit of the credit for that, having changed
:43:34. > :43:40.the agenda during his Labour Party speech on this? Ed Miliband promises
:43:41. > :43:44.what they cannot deliver. He said that he could control the world gas
:43:45. > :43:50.price. I am afraid that is not credible. What you see from this
:43:51. > :43:54.government is a different approach. You have just had Ed Balls thing, I
:43:55. > :44:00.want a surplus, but I want to borrow more. It does not add up. Our plans
:44:01. > :44:05.do add up, they are credible and serious. Let me ask you about the
:44:06. > :44:14.economy generally. You have strong growth at the moment. The last time
:44:15. > :44:21.I was talking to you at -- you or the Prime Minister, about the
:44:22. > :44:25.housing market, I was slapped down. Argue concerned that it is too much
:44:26. > :44:32.of a housing price push? In the south-east, it is about 6.5%. Can I
:44:33. > :44:39.make this broader point than come to house prices? The economic plan is
:44:40. > :44:44.working and recovery is underway. I will say that the job is not yet
:44:45. > :44:49.done. We have got to make sure that we go on taking the difficult
:44:50. > :44:53.decisions to secure that recovery. We want a responsible recovery. We
:44:54. > :44:57.want to learn from the mistakes of the past. We do not want to see a
:44:58. > :45:02.re-emergence of the problems that brought this country to its knees.
:45:03. > :45:06.On housing specifically, the Bank of England says that there is not a
:45:07. > :45:12.housing bubble at the moment but we want to make sure that one does not
:45:13. > :45:15.develop. It was myself and the Bank of England governor working together
:45:16. > :45:18.that stepped in and said that one of these schemes which has been
:45:19. > :45:22.underpinning mortgage lending, we will now focus on small business
:45:23. > :45:28.lending. They are the lifeblood of the economy. I think you see us
:45:29. > :45:30.working in concert, the Bank of England and the Treasury, to make
:45:31. > :45:36.sure we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. We will monitor debt
:45:37. > :45:41.levels in the economy and we will spot asset booms. But as of today,
:45:42. > :45:46.the Bank of England agree, there is not a housing boom. Your conference
:45:47. > :45:51.speech could be characterised as a steady is not just for Christmas it
:45:52. > :45:55.is for life? You want to shrink the public sector into the next
:45:56. > :46:02.Parliament? The numbers imply a very tight squeeze? Are you happy that
:46:03. > :46:11.the social fabric of the country will stay together? I think one of
:46:12. > :46:16.the stories over the past couple of years, and I think this would
:46:17. > :46:20.continue, that we spent beyond our needs and public finances got out of
:46:21. > :46:24.control. We have had public support for making difficult decisions and
:46:25. > :46:28.the British public have made sacrifices, but they have seen the
:46:29. > :46:32.benefits of that in a recovering economy and the deficit coming down.
:46:33. > :46:36.Of course people know the job is not done. There have to be more
:46:37. > :46:49.difficult decisions and I have to take difficult decisions this week.
:46:50. > :46:52.You cannot will your public finances to be in better shape. You cannot
:46:53. > :46:54.pretend it is going to happen by magic. You have to take real
:46:55. > :46:56.decisions on welfare, the cost of Government and the like. We have
:46:57. > :47:02.taken those decisions. Are you confident the recovery will last
:47:03. > :47:07.until 2015? I am not an economic forecaster. I gave away that power
:47:08. > :47:11.to the Office for Budget Responsibility. Lots of people don't
:47:12. > :47:17.think it will and if you talk to the CBI, they are worried about the weak
:47:18. > :47:20.economy, in terms of export and small business performance and so
:47:21. > :47:24.forth. I am the first to say that the economy is recovering but the
:47:25. > :47:29.job is not done. Of course risks remain. There are risks abroad.
:47:30. > :47:33.Eurozone remains very weak, sadly. And there are risks that home. We
:47:34. > :47:38.want to have stronger productivity. We want to make sure that our young
:47:39. > :47:43.people have the skills they need to compete in the global race. A bubble
:47:44. > :47:59.that is a greater risk is I am going to borrow more, which you have just
:48:00. > :48:02.heard from Ed Balls. That would be a disastrous thing for Britain at a
:48:03. > :48:05.time like this. How worried are you about private debt in the economy?
:48:06. > :48:07.It is huge, close to 100% of GDP. A tiny change in interest rates would
:48:08. > :48:10.cause catastrophe, wouldn't it? We now empower the Bank of England to
:48:11. > :48:12.look at overall levels of personal debt in the economy. We have given
:48:13. > :48:16.them the tools to take action on this. It is all part of having this
:48:17. > :48:22.responsible recovery, not repeating the mistakes of the past, not just
:48:23. > :48:27.pumping up the bubble again. Doing the hard work, the hard graft. You
:48:28. > :48:32.are Chancellor, are you worried about overall debt levels in the
:48:33. > :48:35.economy at the moment? These are assessed by the Bank of England and
:48:36. > :48:39.I don't want to step in and take their job away from them. It is for
:48:40. > :48:41.every individual family to make their own decision about what they
:48:42. > :48:47.can afford and what they cannot afford. Of course where there are
:48:48. > :48:50.genuine problems in financial markets, like we have got people at
:48:51. > :48:54.the moment who can afford a mortgage but not to deposit because of the
:48:55. > :49:09.problems in the banking sector, we have stepped in with The Help to
:49:10. > :49:13.buy. Normal -- I think across the board we step in where we can help.
:49:14. > :49:18.Of course debt has been a big problem for the United Kingdom in
:49:19. > :49:21.all sectors. But we have got to make sure that we have the instruments to
:49:22. > :49:27.deal with that aren't I think we do have those instruments. Looking
:49:28. > :49:31.ahead, clearly you need to squeeze welfare spending to hit your
:49:32. > :49:35.targets. You have a huge ideological difference with the Liberal
:49:36. > :49:39.Democrats, don't you? Liberal Democrats can speak for themselves.
:49:40. > :49:42.What I would say is this. Our welfare bills have got out of
:49:43. > :49:47.control and we have had to deal with that. We have had to bring welfare
:49:48. > :49:52.costs down and take incredibly difficult decisions. What are the
:49:53. > :49:58.next targets on welfare? I am not going to set out the Autumn
:49:59. > :50:02.Statement now. Go on! Or indeed the statement for the next Parliament.
:50:03. > :50:05.But we are taking action to make sure when you turn up at the
:50:06. > :50:10.Jobcentre, actually the first thing you have to do is look for work. We
:50:11. > :50:14.are taking action to help the long-term unemployed, who have been
:50:15. > :50:17.left behind in previous recoveries. And we are taking long-term action
:50:18. > :50:21.to make sure EU migrants cannot simply come to this country to claim
:50:22. > :50:25.benefits. There is action under way on welfare but I am glad we have to
:50:26. > :50:29.do more. Ultimately the cost of welfare is one of the things that
:50:30. > :50:31.make public finances and we are taking long-term action to make sure
:50:32. > :50:34.EU migrants cannot simply come to this country to claim benefits.
:50:35. > :50:37.There is action under way on welfare but I am glad we have to do more.
:50:38. > :50:39.Ultimately the cost of welfare is one of the things that make public
:50:40. > :50:42.finances unsustainable. On your own numbers you have to do a heck of a
:50:43. > :50:44.lot more. You talk about shrinking in abstract terms. What will the
:50:45. > :50:47.welfare system look like after another five years of George Osborne
:50:48. > :50:49.as Chancellor? I want a state that helps Britain and the people of
:50:50. > :50:52.Britain succeed in the modern world. I want to make sure our schools are
:50:53. > :50:55.equipping our kids with the right skills were great careers. I want
:50:56. > :50:59.the best health care in the world. I want to make sure the police have
:51:00. > :51:03.what they need to do their job and we have been reminded in Glasgow of
:51:04. > :51:08.what an incredible job they do. That is the sunny side of the street and
:51:09. > :51:12.I am asking about the other side. One thing we have learned, if you do
:51:13. > :51:15.not get a grip on finances and have a long-term economy plan, you
:51:16. > :51:20.literally go from boom to bust and that is not a sensible approach. I
:51:21. > :51:24.am not disagreeing with you. I am just asking you to paint a full
:51:25. > :51:30.picture of what will happen after five years of austerity and cuts in
:51:31. > :51:34.welfare. Where will the cuts go? How will the welfare system look and be
:51:35. > :51:36.different? The welfare system should help those genuinely in need but
:51:37. > :51:42.should have very strong incentives, to put it mildly, that people have
:51:43. > :51:46.to work if they can. One of the successes of this recovery has been
:51:47. > :51:51.the creation of jobs. Ed Balls would talk about the jobless recovery if
:51:52. > :51:57.he possibly could. He cannot. It is a job- rich recovery. Jobs created
:51:58. > :52:00.in the private sector since we came to office. I want to make sure those
:52:01. > :52:05.jobs are available for young, British kids, making sure they have
:52:06. > :52:10.the right skills, the opportunities, apprenticeships, whatever, to make
:52:11. > :52:13.sure they are part of what I hope is a more prosperous world. George
:52:14. > :52:18.Osborne, thank you very much for joining us. Now the news headlines.
:52:19. > :52:22.Good morning. The Chancellor of the has confirmed that green levies on
:52:23. > :52:38.energy companies will be rolled back, saving consumers on average
:52:39. > :52:41.?50 a year off their bills. George Osborne said the cost would
:52:42. > :52:43.be met instead by the Government, financed through a further crackdown
:52:44. > :52:45.on tax avoidance. The Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls accused the
:52:46. > :52:47.Government of running scared of energy companies, who have been
:52:48. > :52:49.putting prices up year after year. He said a policy of price freezing
:52:50. > :52:52.would be more effective. A rescue and recovery operation is
:52:53. > :52:54.taking place at the pub in Glasgow where helicopter crashed into the
:52:55. > :52:58.roof, killing at least eight people. Witnesses reported its
:52:59. > :53:02.dropping out of the sky and hitting the Clutha Vaults on Saturday night.
:53:03. > :53:10.One of the victims has been named as Gary Arthur, 48-year-old from
:53:11. > :53:13.Paisley. 14 people remain in hospital with serious injuries.
:53:14. > :53:17.The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock. Thank you.
:53:18. > :53:22.I am joined by the Chancellor again and Ed Balls, and Robyn Hitchcock, a
:53:23. > :53:26.one-time arts college student and now a hugely successful folkrock
:53:27. > :53:38.musician. I remember when you were in The Soft Boys. They are too young
:53:39. > :53:43.to remember punk. It is now a softer sound. And you are promoting a
:53:44. > :53:48.festival. Yes, something bijou in freshwater Bay in the Isle of Wight.
:53:49. > :53:52.We need sponsorship. How will this differ from every other bijou arts
:53:53. > :53:57.festival? It will be gorgeous and miniature. Everyone will be tiny and
:53:58. > :54:01.very quiet. Marvellous. And you are going to play a gorgeous and
:54:02. > :54:06.miniature little song in a moment. I will let you prepare for that. Thank
:54:07. > :54:09.you. I was just thinking about other things we could talk about in a
:54:10. > :54:13.genial fashion on Sunday morning and I wondered about equality, and I
:54:14. > :54:18.thought that we cannot have equality because so many of us have IQs below
:54:19. > :54:22.80, which is bad for the species. I wonder if you would share Boris
:54:23. > :54:39.Johnson's language about this or not? Well, I would not have put it
:54:40. > :54:41.like that. I think you would. I don't agree with everything he said.
:54:42. > :54:43.I think there is increasingly common agreement across the political
:54:44. > :54:46.spectrum that you cannot achieve equality of outcome, but you should
:54:47. > :54:49.be able to achieve equality of opportunity and education is the key
:54:50. > :54:51.to this. He was saying we should bring back grammar schools. Whatever
:54:52. > :54:55.their critics, in the 1950s, through the grammar school system more kids
:54:56. > :55:01.from poor backgrounds came to the top of good jobs compared to now. I
:55:02. > :55:05.think it is back to the 80s not the 50s. Even Margaret Thatcher did not
:55:06. > :55:09.bring back the grammar schools. Greed is good and the poor are poor
:55:10. > :55:14.because they are stupid? That is outdated. There is too much of that
:55:15. > :55:19.attitude around in politics. Talking about greed is good, are you
:55:20. > :55:22.disturbed, outraged or relaxed about banker bonuses which we are now
:55:23. > :55:27.seeing again, including at RBS, which is owned by the Government?
:55:28. > :55:31.One of the reasons that we know about these million pounds bonuses
:55:32. > :55:34.is because the Government now requires the banks to publish
:55:35. > :55:39.information. It is not as though those bonuses were not paid before.
:55:40. > :55:45.Bonuses are now 80% lower than when it was in the Treasury. I am clear
:55:46. > :55:52.that the banking system needs to take account of the climate and the
:55:53. > :55:58.world that we are in. A bit early for the return of Gordon Geckos
:55:59. > :56:01.everywhere. Of course we want a successful banking system and there
:56:02. > :56:05.are many people working in Leeds, Manchester, Bristol and Cardiff and
:56:06. > :56:10.it is an important industry for the UK. We are making the banking system
:56:11. > :56:14.safer because ultimately what is absolutely essential is that when a
:56:15. > :56:18.bank fails, it is not the British taxpayer that steps in, and actually
:56:19. > :56:25.with the Co-op, very sad story, the taxpayer does not have to step in.
:56:26. > :56:28.Different banks for the future and tough regulation, which was not
:56:29. > :56:35.tough enough in the case of the Co-op. But we should use taxes to
:56:36. > :56:40.get young people back to work and make the country fairer and stronger
:56:41. > :56:45.for the future. No more Christian Methodists while we are at it. Not
:56:46. > :56:50.something I have ever done! I am sure that is true. Thank you very
:56:51. > :56:55.much. I encourage you to join us again at the same time on BBC One
:56:56. > :56:58.next Sunday morning. Meanwhile, we leave you with Robyn Hitchcock and
:56:59. > :57:04.his song So You Think You're In Love.
:57:05. > :57:09.# So you think you're in love # Yes, you probably are.
:57:10. > :57:12.# But you wanna be straight about it.
:57:13. > :57:14.# Oh, you wanna be straight about it now.
:57:15. > :57:21.# So you think you're in love. # Yes, you probably are.
:57:22. > :57:24.# But you wanna be straight about it.
:57:25. > :57:29.# Oh, you wanna be straight about it now.
:57:30. > :57:41.# Can you imagine what the people say, can you?
:57:42. > :57:45.# But the silent majority. # Is the crime of the century, you
:57:46. > :57:53.know it. # Are you sure that it's wise?
:57:54. > :57:58.# no, you probably ain't. # You don't wanna be faint about it.
:57:59. > :58:00.# Oh, you shouldn't be faint about it now.
:58:01. > :58:07.# by the look in your eyes. # no, you probably ain't.
:58:08. > :58:13.# But you shouldn't be faint about it.
:58:14. > :58:20.# Oh, you gunner be faint about it now.
:58:21. > :58:25.# What is love made of? Nobody knows.
:58:26. > :58:34.# What are you afraid of? Everyone knows.
:58:35. > :58:40.# It's love, it's love. # So you think you're in love.
:58:41. > :58:44.# Yes, you probably are. # But you wanna be straight about
:58:45. > :58:48.it. # Oh, you gotta be straight about it
:58:49. > :58:52.now. # So you think you're in love.
:58:53. > :59:00.# Yes, you probably are.