:00:38. > :00:44.It's a funny old week in politics. If you skimmed the news, you'd think
:00:45. > :00:47.the only thing going on was sex - sex pest Liberals and wild
:00:48. > :00:51.misbehaviour in the Elysee Palace. Oh yes, and the former UKIP man who
:00:52. > :00:54.has blamed the recent floods on the spread of gay propaganda. That, at
:00:55. > :00:57.least, is a completely ridiculous view of the Almighty. It wasn't him
:00:58. > :00:59.complaining about gays - obviously it was her complaining about the
:01:00. > :01:03.Liberal Democrats. And joining me today for our review
:01:04. > :01:05.of the Sunday newspapers - the director of the human rights
:01:06. > :01:11.pressure group, Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti, and the editor of the
:01:12. > :01:15.Sunday Times, Martin Ivens. But away from stories of sex pests, it's been
:01:16. > :01:18.the most extraordinary week for real politics. Abroad, we've seen the
:01:19. > :01:21.collapse into revolutionary anarchy of one of Europe's biggest
:01:22. > :01:27.countries, the Ukraine, while the struggle for any kind of peace in
:01:28. > :01:30.Syria remains deadlocked. For all of us who hoped that the Arab Spring
:01:31. > :01:34.would produce a more democratic and safer Middle East, these are very
:01:35. > :01:37.dark days indeed. The Foreign Secretary, William
:01:38. > :01:40.Hague, joins us this morning, as we ask what influence in this
:01:41. > :01:45.increasingly dangerous world Britain still has.
:01:46. > :01:48.And then there's politics at home. For months - years actually - we've
:01:49. > :01:51.been waiting for a really big economic speech from Labour
:01:52. > :01:55.confronting the deficit. Explaining their way forward. This weekend, at
:01:56. > :02:02.long last, Ed Balls has broken his silence. And the rich are once more
:02:03. > :02:06.to face a 50p tax rate under Labour. It isn't enough to plug the gap, but
:02:07. > :02:11.it's been plenty to infuriate big business. Bold and popular, but does
:02:12. > :02:16.it make sense? Mr Balls is here to flesh out his thinking. If that
:02:17. > :02:20.isn't enough drama, how about this? No play I can remember has had quite
:02:21. > :02:24.the gooing adulation from critics that The Weir by a young Irish
:02:25. > :02:29.writer has garnered this week. We hear from two of its stars this
:02:30. > :02:35.morning too. So the big stories, the big names, the big hit. First though
:02:36. > :02:38.to the news desk and Naga Munchetty. Good morning. Mass protests against
:02:39. > :02:42.the Government in Ukraine have continued, despite an offer from the
:02:43. > :02:45.President to share power with the opposition. Disturbances in the
:02:46. > :02:48.capital, Kiev, went on into the early hours. Protesters tried to
:02:49. > :02:52.storm a conference centre after finding out that there were riot
:02:53. > :03:05.police inside. Our correspondent, Duncan Crawford, is in Kiev. , with
:03:06. > :03:10.the President here offering significant concessions to try and
:03:11. > :03:14.bring an end to this crisis. He offered one of the leading
:03:15. > :03:20.opposition figures here the position of Prime Minister. He also offer to
:03:21. > :03:25.Vitali Klitschko, the boxer-turned politician, the position of vice
:03:26. > :03:29.Prime Minister. But when those two opposition figures stood on the
:03:30. > :03:33.stage behind me and spoke to the protesters, they said they wanted
:03:34. > :03:36.more successions and they want the demonstrations to continue. There
:03:37. > :03:41.was a tense night once again. There was a stand-off between protesters
:03:42. > :03:45.and police. Police who were trapped inside a Conference Centre, which is
:03:46. > :03:49.inbetween Independence Square and the main front line on the road up
:03:50. > :03:53.to Parliament. Protesters were trying to get inside. Using sticks
:03:54. > :04:00.and batons to break the windows. The police were firing stun grenades and
:04:01. > :04:04.using pipes on the crowds. There were negotiations and the police
:04:05. > :04:09.were released. It is a lot calmer here this morning. Everyone waiting
:04:10. > :04:13.to see the Government's response to the opposition saying they want to
:04:14. > :04:16.see more concessions. Duncan, thank you.
:04:17. > :04:20.Representatives from the Syrian Government and opposition groups are
:04:21. > :04:23.due to meet for a second day of face-to-face talks at the UN in
:04:24. > :04:26.Geneva. The two sides are not communicating directly, only through
:04:27. > :04:29.a UN mediator. Today, discussions are expected to cover the issue of
:04:30. > :04:35.releasing prisoners. From Geneva, Imogen Foulkes reports. A modest
:04:36. > :04:41.beginning, says the UN, but a good one. Just a week ago it looked as if
:04:42. > :04:45.these talks wouldn't happen at all. But timely, after many delays,
:04:46. > :04:51.Syria's Government and opposition met in the same room. They spoke
:04:52. > :04:56.only through the UN mediator. Their subject, not peace, but much-needed
:04:57. > :05:01.relief for the besieged city of Homs. Civilians in Homs have been
:05:02. > :05:06.bombarded for months. Aid has not been allowed in. It is just one of
:05:07. > :05:13.many besieged cities in Syria, but the hope is if a temporary ceasefire
:05:14. > :05:18.works here, it could be extended to other areas. After three years of
:05:19. > :05:21.civil war, two short face to face meetings don't sound like much.
:05:22. > :05:26.Nevertheless UN diplomats are hailing this as a success, at the
:05:27. > :05:29.very least a confidence-building measure between the two sides, and
:05:30. > :05:35.the talks here are expected to last another few days at least. The two
:05:36. > :05:41.sides are expected to discuss releasing prisoners. On Monday the
:05:42. > :05:46.key issue of a transitional Government, and President Assad's
:05:47. > :05:54.future, and that is where the whole process could become very tricky. In
:05:55. > :05:57.England, new laws are being put forward to ban the sale of
:05:58. > :06:02.electronic cigarettes to people under 18. The Government wants to
:06:03. > :06:06.make it an offence for adults to buy real cigarettes for children. The
:06:07. > :06:12.changes are being made in a bid to reduce the number of young people
:06:13. > :06:16.who take up smoking. More flooding could be on the way.
:06:17. > :06:22.Forecasters warn of heavy rain in the south-west of England. Pumps are
:06:23. > :06:25.currently being used to try to drain water from the Somerset levels,
:06:26. > :06:29.where some communities have been flooded for weeks.
:06:30. > :06:32.The French President, Francois Hollande, has officially ended his
:06:33. > :06:34.relationship with his partner, Valerie Trierweiler. It comes after
:06:35. > :06:37.weeks of speculation following allegations in a magazine that he
:06:38. > :06:41.was having an affair with an actress. Ms Trierweiler was not
:06:42. > :06:44.married to the President, but she had assumed the official role of
:06:45. > :06:48.First Lady since his election nearly two years ago.
:06:49. > :06:53.That's all from me, for now. I'll be back with the headlines just before
:06:54. > :07:05.ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew. Many thanks, Naga. The newspaper
:07:06. > :07:13.front pages. The Times says Miliband's 50p tax stokes fury, and
:07:14. > :07:20.Le, Split, on the Hollande story, and Tony Blair saying that the wars
:07:21. > :07:23.of the current century are caused by religious extremism. I don't know
:07:24. > :07:28.what we say about that. The Independent on Sunday has a
:07:29. > :07:35.wonderful line in ebleak headlines. Beat the big six, make your own
:07:36. > :07:43.energy. How we are supposed to become your own wind farm isn'ted,
:07:44. > :07:50.you will have to buy it to find out. And IRA victims plan to sue Tony
:07:51. > :07:55.Blair. The and again the First Lady is fired. A story about a Tory MP
:07:56. > :08:04.dressing up as a Mazzie, which we'll talk about, in the Mail on Sunday.
:08:05. > :08:10.Martin, all the papers have covered Kiev, you have not chosen your own
:08:11. > :08:16.party to start with. I've picked the Independent on Sunday, Andrew, with
:08:17. > :08:22.the headline keep braced for renewed crackdown. It presents Fleet Street
:08:23. > :08:27.with a number of problems, Ukraine. To many of our readers it is a
:08:28. > :08:32.far-off country about which they know little. But to William Hague
:08:33. > :08:37.and the leaders in Europe it is on the fault line between East and
:08:38. > :08:42.West. Bigger than France. And a terrible history of famine, of rape
:08:43. > :08:48.by the great totalitarian powers of the 20th century, and wrestled
:08:49. > :08:54.between East and West. The showdown goes on, in a way that is very
:08:55. > :08:58.dangerous. And we'll talk about that with William Hague. One of the
:08:59. > :09:07.issues that's come up is the number of far right group behind these
:09:08. > :09:12.protests. It is not a suddenly Government versus the demonstrators?
:09:13. > :09:18.There's always been an unpleasant nationalist fringe in the Ukraine
:09:19. > :09:25.that's been anti-Semitic from of old. But if you go back to the
:09:26. > :09:30.Orange Revolution, it is much more a wrestling match between those who
:09:31. > :09:35.see the destiny of the country to the East and those to the West,
:09:36. > :09:43.coupled with a terrible problem of corruption at the top. Its most
:09:44. > :09:48.famous novelist in Death and the Penguin gives a great description.
:09:49. > :09:53.He is a great writer. When I was in Russia, they said Ukraine is Russia,
:09:54. > :09:58.it is where Russia starts it's the Orthodox Church, it is us. They
:09:59. > :10:02.don't even say in the Ukraine, they say on the edge. Shami, speaking of
:10:03. > :10:09.on the edge, another country on the edge, Syria. I can do this, I can go
:10:10. > :10:15.to the Sunday Times, and of course the great modern tradition of great
:10:16. > :10:20.women intrepid foreign correspondents in your paper
:10:21. > :10:26.continues, the late, great Marie Colvin is succeeded by Christina
:10:27. > :10:30.Lamb in Afghanistan, and this is about Syria, where the heart-break
:10:31. > :10:34.and turmoil continues. I hope you are going to ask the Foreign
:10:35. > :10:39.Secretary about refugees in Syria. We will get round to that, don't
:10:40. > :10:44.worry. Our hearts go out to people when they are suffering over there.
:10:45. > :10:49.When they turn up here they don't always get the same reception. Halab
:10:50. > :10:53.writes a poignant piece about her experience in Syria and how a young
:10:54. > :10:57.mother urged her to save her little girl. An interesting piece about
:10:58. > :11:01.what it is to be a journalist and what the boundaries are when you are
:11:02. > :11:06.watching and recording this horror, and to what extent should you, do
:11:07. > :11:10.you, intervene have. I find that difficult as a human rights
:11:11. > :11:16.campaigner rather than a journalist. I've read, I'm sure it has been
:11:17. > :11:20.exaggerated somewhere, foreign correspondents have to go EasyJet
:11:21. > :11:28.and take tents with them,s that true? We are not in the luxury class
:11:29. > :11:36.any more. These are not the days of Evelyn Waugh's boots and you can
:11:37. > :11:40.take your cricket chest. We have -- and a hamper from Harrods. I saw the
:11:41. > :11:45.story too. We try to get value for money. You are frugal value for
:11:46. > :11:49.money people. When I said the Sunday Times has been redesigned, what's
:11:50. > :11:55.your message to the readers who are wondering why it has been redesigned
:11:56. > :12:02.and what are you trying to achieve? Greater clarity, a modern look, a
:12:03. > :12:06.new type face called Solido. We've changed the form atting to the
:12:07. > :12:13.culture and the Sunday Times magazine. The next story, we've done
:12:14. > :12:19.civil war in Syria, you are moving to civil war in the Labour Party. So
:12:20. > :12:28.it says. It immunised that former Blairites are very cross at the way
:12:29. > :12:34.Ed Balls... A it lo of anonymous quotes there. A former City
:12:35. > :12:44.Minister, Lord Myners, has gone on the railroad attacking the raise, as
:12:45. > :12:48.has a donor, Gulan Noon, who has given three quarters of a million to
:12:49. > :12:54.the Labour Party. The "Curry King." And an electronics tycoon have all
:12:55. > :12:59.said this is the end as far as they are concerned. There is a lot of
:13:00. > :13:04.coverage of this 50p tax rate in the press, and not universally warmly
:13:05. > :13:10.approved by the press this morning. No, it is getting very bad reviews.
:13:11. > :13:16.Obviously economics isn't my thing, but I noticed in the Mail on Sunday
:13:17. > :13:21.thing there's retcheses to Mr Blair. He's been busy on Iraq and telling
:13:22. > :13:26.us about religion. Apparently he and his friends are particularly upset
:13:27. > :13:34.about Mr Balls' new policy. I think it must be tough to be Ed Miliband,
:13:35. > :13:40.with all these various coffins that need nailing down. The undead
:13:41. > :13:45.rising. A question I would love to ask Ed this morning, do you think
:13:46. > :13:50.Labour could win without any business support? I will write that
:13:51. > :13:55.one down. Thank you very much indeed Martin. In terms of embracement from
:13:56. > :13:59.the past, we must not ignore the Rennard story, which has bored us
:14:00. > :14:05.all to death this week. The new twist, I think it is in your paper
:14:06. > :14:11.again, Martin, you are not sparing any Lib Dem blushes today, and it is
:14:12. > :14:14.friends of again. This political journalistic thing. They are never
:14:15. > :14:19.the person who is named, but their friends. Apparently friends of Lord
:14:20. > :14:25.Rennard are suggesting if he gets further investigated he knows where
:14:26. > :14:31.the bodies are buried from previous scandals going for many years and it
:14:32. > :14:37.is suggested he would be loth to spill the beens but he might do so
:14:38. > :14:42.if provoked. That's pretty tawdry stuff isn't it Friends of Andrew
:14:43. > :14:48.Marr would like to make it clear I don't think the story itself is
:14:49. > :14:55.boring but it has gone nowhere. A pretty big headache if you are Nick
:14:56. > :14:59.Clegg now in Davos. With Lib Dem friends like that, who needs
:15:00. > :15:05.enemies. Indeed. Wandering hands in London and wandering Presidents in
:15:06. > :15:19.Paris. Yes, the Hollande story is the gift that keeps on giving to us
:15:20. > :15:29.all. It is a marvellous soap opera but it seems to be coming to a halt,
:15:30. > :15:34.if not an end. You have picked the Mail on Sunday, Martin, and it is an
:15:35. > :15:56.interesting piece that looks like a double spread on the lycee Palace,
:15:57. > :15:59.but it is saying never mind the sex, it is... And it is like putting the
:16:00. > :16:10.vegetables in a tomato pasta sauce for the punters. We move briskly on.
:16:11. > :16:14.I thought Benefits Street was moving documentary. I don't want to talk
:16:15. > :16:21.about that, I want to talk about refugees again. You talk about what
:16:22. > :16:27.you want, it is that kind of programme. You are the host, thank
:16:28. > :16:31.you, but also it's been suggested, Mark Townsend writes a piece in the
:16:32. > :16:42.Observer that the Home Office, because of the furore about
:16:43. > :16:47.immigration, it looks like 2015 might be all about immigration, a
:16:48. > :16:52.very toxic debate. It has been suggested in the Observer by lawyers
:16:53. > :16:57.and refugee charities about the good old Home Office and Borders agency
:16:58. > :17:02.are going for the low hanging fruit when it comes to removals and it has
:17:03. > :17:06.been suggested they are targeting in particular torture victims and
:17:07. > :17:11.people with mental health problems. It seems to me to be completely
:17:12. > :17:14.perverse, when you would imagine it is the most vulnerable who want to
:17:15. > :17:21.be getting asylum. There is a story of a man who said he was tortured in
:17:22. > :17:27.Pakistan, he was removed despite the interventions of the Red Cross and
:17:28. > :17:33.others without even a psychiatric assessment. We have the Home Office
:17:34. > :17:38.driving vans around parts of the country, telling people to go, and
:17:39. > :17:44.now the suggestion that they are going for the most vulnerable. That
:17:45. > :17:51.is not my idea of fair or firm immigration control. Martin, talking
:17:52. > :17:57.about emigration, Richard Branson is trying to make it commercially
:17:58. > :18:04.possible to go into space. Yes, he has this campaign to do the first
:18:05. > :18:09.airline passenger service into space and he was even boasting last year
:18:10. > :18:14.that he would be up by Christmas day wearing a Santa suit in typical
:18:15. > :18:22.flamboyant style, but every deadline seems to come and pass, and
:18:23. > :18:32.Richard... It looks like gravity, doing his Sandra Bullock thing, but
:18:33. > :18:40.it is not going well. Yes, he has sank a lot of his own money. It is
:18:41. > :18:51.very imaginative. He is one of our great cheerer uppers. He is. A later
:18:52. > :19:00.story at the end, you have chosen Justin Bieber. Quite sad, I think.
:19:01. > :19:07.Poor old Justin Bieber, his travails have been all over the news all
:19:08. > :19:11.week. It takes Barbara Ellen in the Observer to say, just remember,
:19:12. > :19:18.people like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber, for all their fame and
:19:19. > :19:23.success, they are just kids. Justin Bieber is only 19 years old and has
:19:24. > :19:28.been through hell of a lot. You can say he has all of the money and
:19:29. > :19:33.celebrity and so on but he is just a kid. Speaking as the match own
:19:34. > :19:39.Sunday Times editor, he is only doing what every red-blooded man has
:19:40. > :19:44.been doing since the days of James Dean, the great cliche of youth ever
:19:45. > :19:53.since youth culture was invented. But with so much more scrutiny and
:19:54. > :20:01.exposure. You are celebrating your own anniversary, is Liberty a
:20:02. > :20:08.teenager? Nearly a teenager, thank you, that is coming up in a couple
:20:09. > :20:16.of weeks. Thank you to you both for that. And so to the weather - and
:20:17. > :20:19.whatever the cause, the great drip, the endless splash goes on. By now
:20:20. > :20:23.the people of Somerset have probably evolved webbed feet, and I fear it's
:20:24. > :20:31.not only them. Over to the weather studio, and Elizabeth Saary.
:20:32. > :20:43.Yet more rain on the way for many of us. There are some weather warnings
:20:44. > :20:47.in place, for rain and snow, some blizzard conditions on the
:20:48. > :20:51.high-level routes of Scotland. Here is why, you can see this deep area
:20:52. > :21:01.of low pressure that has been bringing this very active weather
:21:02. > :21:07.front. For the Somerset Levels, still a warning in force, and this
:21:08. > :21:11.snow to come across the Scottish mountains. Turning a little bit
:21:12. > :21:15.brighter in western areas later this afternoon but feeling quite chilly.
:21:16. > :21:20.That cold air continues to dig down as we go through this evening and
:21:21. > :21:27.overnight, further wintry showers in the north, but even to some lower
:21:28. > :21:34.levels further in the south. It will also be quite icy to start with on
:21:35. > :21:41.Monday morning. Wintry showers again on Monday morning, and some gales to
:21:42. > :21:43.the north and west. Frost and ice will be a frequent part of the
:21:44. > :22:03.forecast. According to this morning's polls,
:22:04. > :22:06.raising the top rate of tax to 50p is a very popular policy. Except, of
:22:07. > :22:11.course, amongst those involved. Ed Balls' new policy will hit
:22:12. > :22:13.investment and job creation. "Politicians should match their
:22:14. > :22:18.pro-business rhetoric by reducing the top rate of tax further, not
:22:19. > :22:21.engage in political posturing." That was the reaction from the Institute
:22:22. > :22:24.of Economic Affairs, and Labour's former treasury minister Lord Myners
:22:25. > :22:27.has also pitched in criticising yesterday's announcement. So why
:22:28. > :22:30.this move, and how significant will it be in raising money to cut the
:22:31. > :22:34.deficit? Good morning, Mr Balls. Last week I asked Ed Miliband about
:22:35. > :22:40.50p rate and he said to wait for the next election, low and behold the
:22:41. > :22:45.next week out it comes, is this a sign of panic? We needed to move to
:22:46. > :22:48.a new phase of setting out the details of our deficit reduction
:22:49. > :22:53.strategy for the next Parliament and the most important thing I said
:22:54. > :22:59.yesterday was that we would balance the books, have the national debt
:23:00. > :23:04.falling, and we would do something George Osborne has failed to do in
:23:05. > :23:10.this Parliament, more quickly would be better, and get the deficit down
:23:11. > :23:15.in a fairway. A far-away means that those the broadest shoulders are
:23:16. > :23:20.their share of the burden. I don't think you can justify when people's
:23:21. > :23:27.taxes have gone up, cutting income tax for the highest earners. I don't
:23:28. > :23:33.think that is a fair approach to deficit reduction. The crucial
:23:34. > :23:41.question is how much will it raise. You say something like ?100 million,
:23:42. > :23:45.is that right? In a year? No, the Conservatives tried to claim that
:23:46. > :23:59.but that was a political decision a couple of years ago. It is clear it
:24:00. > :24:03.would give ?3 billion in a tax cut from 50-405A. The office of budget
:24:04. > :24:13.responsibility says 100 million, around that. Let's be clear about
:24:14. > :24:21.this, the Government ministers said, in their view, changing the
:24:22. > :24:32.review of the Government response, it would be ?100 million. The OBR
:24:33. > :24:38.said it wouldn't be wrong to say 100 million. A best guess. We now know
:24:39. > :24:48.that in the three years when the 50p tax rate was in place, ?10 billion
:24:49. > :24:53.more came in from people earning more than ?50,000. When the 50p rate
:24:54. > :25:00.was in place there was 10 billion pounds more than we planned, so the
:25:01. > :25:05.idea that the 50p rate deterred people, it didn't. We are saying it
:25:06. > :25:12.would raise revenue, raise a substantial amount of revenue, but
:25:13. > :25:18.there are different views whether it is ?100 million. It is a fair way to
:25:19. > :25:23.get the deficit down and the phrase is that we are all in this together.
:25:24. > :25:28.Lets get away from this dull argument about exactly how much it
:25:29. > :25:32.would raise. I thought maybe six to 10% of what you needed to raise to
:25:33. > :25:42.cut the deficit each year, so what I'm interested in is what about the
:25:43. > :25:46.other 90%? Will it be spending tax cuts? I said yesterday that we
:25:47. > :25:51.wanted to get the budget back into balance as soon as we can but that
:25:52. > :25:55.would depend upon three things. First of all, the tough decisions we
:25:56. > :25:59.would make, and there would be spending cuts in the next
:26:00. > :26:04.government. Secondly, what happens in the economy, because the more we
:26:05. > :26:09.have sustainable growth, the more we have tax revenues coming in. More
:26:10. > :26:17.people will then invest for the long-term. Thirdly decisions we can
:26:18. > :26:26.make to do things in a far-away. Well we get the deficit down, these
:26:27. > :26:33.things can help in a fair away. And mansion tax. Yes, and we have said
:26:34. > :26:37.we would like to ease the burden on families by having a mansion tax but
:26:38. > :26:47.that needs to go alongside the 50p in the next Parliament while we get
:26:48. > :26:54.the deficit down. Given that the top 10% pay 30% of income tax, how much
:26:55. > :27:03.more can you squeeze out? That is because they are earning over
:27:04. > :27:07.?150,000. In 2009, Alistair Darling said, while we get the deficit down
:27:08. > :27:10.which had asked people on the highest incomes to make a
:27:11. > :27:15.contribution. Our problem is that we hoped the deficit would be gone in
:27:16. > :27:21.this Parliament, and it's not, it will be huge going into the next
:27:22. > :27:25.Parliament. Coming back to where we started from, it has either got to
:27:26. > :27:31.be brought down with substantial tax rises going much further than this
:27:32. > :27:38.50p rate which doesn't raise enough, or spending cuts. Do you know the
:27:39. > :27:42.percentage as between tax rises and spending cuts? If you take the point
:27:43. > :27:45.we just made about this Parliament, why is it the case that George
:27:46. > :27:51.Osborne has failed to get the deficit down? It wasn't that he
:27:52. > :27:57.didn't cut spending, he tried to cut it on many things but because the
:27:58. > :28:01.economy flat lined, the deficit has not come down. You are saying that
:28:02. > :28:07.because the Conservatives have produced a growing economy, you will
:28:08. > :28:15.have no problem? I hope this growth that is finally coming through is
:28:16. > :28:19.balanced and divestment lead -- investment led. With housing demand
:28:20. > :28:25.being pushed up by the Government while housing supply is weak, this
:28:26. > :28:28.is not a straightforward way to a sustainable recovery and we had the
:28:29. > :28:34.debate in the last few days that interest rates might go up because
:28:35. > :28:40.of that unbalanced housing led recovery. That is quite risky
:28:41. > :28:45.prospect. The governor of the Bank of England has slightly calmed that
:28:46. > :28:49.worry. Let's go back to the 50p rate because that is your big
:28:50. > :28:55.announcement. Is this a sign there will be more tax rises ahead? It is
:28:56. > :29:02.political flag, this is the way I'm going, or not? We have said a
:29:03. > :29:06.mansion tax to cut the 10p rate for families. We have said there will be
:29:07. > :29:11.spending cuts, a rise in the pension age, we wouldn't go ahead with the
:29:12. > :29:17.winter allowance for the richest pensioners, but what I cannot do is
:29:18. > :29:22.say our tax policy and our tax decisions in budget three years
:29:23. > :29:30.out. I am clear middle and lower income families are already hard
:29:31. > :29:37.pressed and they want help. If you had to you would raise the top rate
:29:38. > :29:42.back to the way it was during the Thatcher years, to 60p? No, we are
:29:43. > :29:50.talking about going to 50p while we get the deficit down. As you have
:29:51. > :29:52.spotted from today's papers, big business is saying this is an
:29:53. > :29:58.anti-business move that will drive people away. You were part of the
:29:59. > :30:03.old prawn cocktail circuit back in the day with Gordon Brown, willing
:30:04. > :30:07.businesses for the Labour cause, you have now comprehensively lost
:30:08. > :30:14.business as a supporter. Can you win an election without business behind
:30:15. > :30:20.you? We are pro-business party. This is not an anti-business agenda. We
:30:21. > :30:23.have got such a big deficit and such a problem with the cost of living
:30:24. > :30:28.and such a need for reform in banking and energy, we need to have
:30:29. > :30:34.an investment led recovery. The thing I have said to businesses many
:30:35. > :30:39.times over the last few months, I support an open, dynamic, wealth
:30:40. > :30:43.creating, entrepreneurial economy. I want people to create wealth, I want
:30:44. > :30:49.to see profits up so we can invest, but at a time when living standards
:30:50. > :30:54.are falling, you can't just take for granted the whole population
:30:55. > :31:00.struggling. So you are raising taxes and whacking the big cartels. You
:31:01. > :31:06.talked about banking. What about pharmaceuticals? Are we seeing more
:31:07. > :31:09.intervention? The pharmaceuticals market is a hugely important market
:31:10. > :31:12.but there is a strong relationship between Government and industry, in
:31:13. > :31:17.terms of research funding and the pricing of drugs into the NHS. In
:31:18. > :31:20.the end, the issue is, can Government make sure that it sets
:31:21. > :31:24.the rules and does the investments and has the competition policy to
:31:25. > :31:29.make the market work for the long term? It is a pro-market policy, a
:31:30. > :31:36.pro-business policy, but it's not business as usual. Our problem is
:31:37. > :31:40.that businesses as well as consumers have often felt that our banks and
:31:41. > :31:45.energy companies have not worked properly for them. So what do you
:31:46. > :31:50.say to people like Lord Myners who say this is back to old Labour, this
:31:51. > :31:55.is the politics of envy and you are dividing voters. It is popular to
:31:56. > :32:01.hit people at the top but it is the politics of envy, going back to the
:32:02. > :32:06.past? It is not going back to the 1980s or '90s. I was part of a
:32:07. > :32:10.Government which opened up markets, made independent the Bank of
:32:11. > :32:14.England. But the reality is we are in different circumstances. And
:32:15. > :32:18.because of George Osborne's failure those will last into the next
:32:19. > :32:22.Parliament. Many business people have said to me over the last year
:32:23. > :32:26.or so, we want to get the top rate of tax down. Of course they do. I
:32:27. > :32:31.want lower tax rates. But to cut the top rate of tax when the deficit is
:32:32. > :32:35.still high and when ordinary people are seeing their living standards
:32:36. > :32:40.fall is foolish and it feeds resentment. I want to do the
:32:41. > :32:46.opposite. I want to pro pro-business, pro-business, pro
:32:47. > :32:53.market but pro fairness. Let's get this deficit down in a fairway. And
:32:54. > :32:59.you are going to cut welfare? Do you know where you are going to cut? You
:33:00. > :33:04.made a lot of the bedroom tax. The bedroom tax was grossly unfair and
:33:05. > :33:10.the British people, who want to see welfare cuts. I'm asking for your
:33:11. > :33:15.alternative to that grossly unfair tax as you call ate. A bank bonus
:33:16. > :33:19.tax, canting young people back to work and start to get the bills of
:33:20. > :33:24.young unemployed people down. Build the homes we need to get the housing
:33:25. > :33:30.benefit bill down. We've said for 2015-16, this has gone further than
:33:31. > :33:34.any opposition before, we will catch the Government's current spending
:33:35. > :33:39.plans, including on welfare, any changes we make would have to be
:33:40. > :33:42.self financed and audited by the office Office for Budget
:33:43. > :33:46.Responsibility. Beyond 2015-16, George Osborne has said, But he's
:33:47. > :33:53.given us all the figures, which you haven't. He said he will cut welfare
:33:54. > :33:57.spending but not one penny of detail on how he would do that. You said
:33:58. > :34:05.welfare spending is going down. It is not. He wants to make it go up
:34:06. > :34:10.less fast. How? No plans. He says he is going to... All I was doing is
:34:11. > :34:14.asking for your plans, Mr Balls. Look, we, three years before these
:34:15. > :34:19.decisions, can't say, when George Osborne won't even give us the
:34:20. > :34:24.detail, how we will do it differently to him. You've had said
:34:25. > :34:29.several times that you are taking away the winter fuel allowance for
:34:30. > :34:32.the pensioners. Are you going to take away their right to free
:34:33. > :34:38.television licences and bus passes as well? With free bus passes, it
:34:39. > :34:42.doesn't apply exactly. There is something about being older and
:34:43. > :34:47.still needing your mobility and freedom and independence which is
:34:48. > :34:51.different, and free bus travel is important and liberating and we
:34:52. > :34:56.won't touch that. TV licences? For the over 75s you can make the same
:34:57. > :35:00.argument for TV licences as for the winter allowance. You can, exactly.
:35:01. > :35:05.The problem is when you look at how you would have to administer taking
:35:06. > :35:09.TV licences away from the over 75s on the highest income tax, it is so
:35:10. > :35:13.complex and there's so little money, we won't do that, because it is not
:35:14. > :35:19.worth the candle. What about looking in the back mirror? Do you have any
:35:20. > :35:24.sense or embarrassment about overspending? We had the biggest
:35:25. > :35:29.deficit going into this recession under Labour. People say unless you
:35:30. > :35:33.confront that and say yes, we did spend too much, people won't listen
:35:34. > :35:36.to you and give credit for going ahead. The Conservative Party want
:35:37. > :35:39.to fight the election about the past, because they are worried and
:35:40. > :35:43.afraid they can't be the party which stands for change and fairness for
:35:44. > :35:49.the future. I'm always happy to debate the past. OK. Let's do so.
:35:50. > :35:54.Well, OK. If you want to. You could say yes, nobody said at the time it
:35:55. > :36:01.was too much on the NHS, but with the benefit of hindsight if I had my
:36:02. > :36:06.time again I wish we didn't spend so much across the board. Look, we
:36:07. > :36:10.didn't spend every penny well, but I'm proud of what I did with the
:36:11. > :36:15.NHS. You could have said you're sorry. I'm proud of the improvement
:36:16. > :36:18.in the standards in schools, the extra police on the streets,
:36:19. > :36:24.tackling antisocial behaviour. We went into the crisis in 2007 with a
:36:25. > :36:28.lower national debt than we inherited, lower than France,
:36:29. > :36:34.Germany and Japan. This argument that the spending crisis, So you
:36:35. > :36:38.would spend that level again if you had the chance, yes or no. Pardon?
:36:39. > :36:43.Would you do it all again? There would be some spending things we
:36:44. > :36:47.would do and some we would do differently. But do you think the
:36:48. > :36:52.level of spending going into the crisis was a problem for Britain?
:36:53. > :37:03.No, I don't. Nor our national debt. What happened was the global global
:37:04. > :37:07.financial crisis that pushed up the deficit. It wasn't caused by
:37:08. > :37:20.spending in Britain. That's the truth. For now, Ed Balls, thank you.
:37:21. > :37:24.One of the most haunting play is The Weir. It's been a global success,
:37:25. > :37:28.and has just been revived in London's West End after a hit run at
:37:29. > :37:31.the Donmar Theatre. Set in a rural Irish pub, it focuses on love, loss
:37:32. > :37:34.and regret. There's humour too, but the overwhelming "spirit" of the
:37:35. > :37:38.play is a supernatural one: Here be ghosts! That great film actor, Brian
:37:39. > :37:41.Cox, heads a crack cast, including Ardal O'Hanlon -- best known as
:37:42. > :37:45.Father Ted's lovable sidekick. On the set, both actors told me how the
:37:46. > :37:48.arrival of a young woman into the "men-only" environment is a catalyst
:37:49. > :37:51.that changes all the characters. She arrives, and she is the expectation
:37:52. > :37:55.of the evening, and these are the boys that live here, Jim, Jack and
:37:56. > :38:03.Brendan, who runs the bar, who owns the bar. It's the dance between the
:38:04. > :38:07.five of them the whole night about who wins her affection, who wins her
:38:08. > :38:13.allegiance. I was telling him earlier. I was telling him! I've
:38:14. > :38:17.seen her since. Oh, yeah? Yeah. They were in Finbar's car, going up the
:38:18. > :38:22.Head. Bloody hell! The Head? Like a courting couple or something! He's
:38:23. > :38:26.showing her the area. The area?! He's a terrible thick. And through
:38:27. > :38:29.the course of it, a series of ghost stories are told which start off as
:38:30. > :38:33.generic and then they become more personal and more personal and more
:38:34. > :38:36.personal until finally, even in the end, they become to do with your
:38:37. > :38:43.present ghosts, not necessarily people who are dead but just the
:38:44. > :38:47.ghost of your life. And the play in the end is about loss and why people
:38:48. > :38:50.have lost important things in their lives. Yeah. Well, through her
:38:51. > :38:56.arrival we see this community in action. It's a beautiful snapshot of
:38:57. > :39:02.a community in a remote area. We get a real sense of loneliness. You
:39:03. > :39:05.know, the spectre of death is there all the time in this play, and the
:39:06. > :39:11.relationship with the supernatural, which I think a lot of people have
:39:12. > :39:14.lost. But also it undermines or sort of destroys us as people, because
:39:15. > :39:18.your character, not to give anything away, could have had a great love
:39:19. > :39:24.affair in his life but he's basically too cowardly. Yeah. He's
:39:25. > :39:28.too scared to leave his own area. Well, it's the notion of
:39:29. > :39:32.fearfulness. You know, and also, one of the characters has a bad ghost
:39:33. > :39:35.experience, and my character has a ghost experience, but one which is
:39:36. > :39:39.very real, something that is very present. So there is that sort of
:39:40. > :39:43.frailty. I mean, the play, I'm just completely biased, I think it's a
:39:44. > :39:50.great, great play. How's the mammy today? Ach! Y'know. I have to get
:39:51. > :39:55.down and see her, I keep saying it. Well, whenever. Whenever you want.
:39:56. > :39:59.Think you'll do anything? About? About up there on your own, and all
:40:00. > :40:02.that. Ach, so, where would I go? We're in a small, intimate public
:40:03. > :40:06.house, hearing small pub stories, and yet the Donmar, again, a small
:40:07. > :40:10.space, it must have felt very different to take it to the West
:40:11. > :40:14.End, where we are in a great big, old Victorian theatre. How much has
:40:15. > :40:17.that changed the play, do you think? Quite a bit. Well, I think
:40:18. > :40:21.inevitably it becomes slightly bolder and brasher. Yeah. It becomes
:40:22. > :40:24.even possibly funnier. I mean, I think the audience is slightly
:40:25. > :40:28.different, and they to some tiny extent dictate the way the play
:40:29. > :40:35.unfolds. Are you listening for laughs and murmuration in the
:40:36. > :40:39.audience? Well, you take it in. But the great note we got from our
:40:40. > :40:44.directors - "Keep in the pub. Keep in the pub." So that we always keep
:40:45. > :40:47.it in the pub. I think we all have a strong connection to each other.
:40:48. > :40:51.Absolutely. And also, Conor's input is, certainly from my character, was
:40:52. > :40:55.to up the anger, up the rage, up the kind of dissatisfaction. Now, Ardal,
:40:56. > :40:58.we're standing in this lovely set, beautiful set. It's a tiny little
:40:59. > :41:02.Irish bar. But one of the things about this play, it could be
:41:03. > :41:06.anywhere, couldn't it? It could be a Serbo-Croat bar, it could be a
:41:07. > :41:09.Scottish bar, it could be a bar in the southern states of the USA.
:41:10. > :41:13.Yeah. I mean, on the surface it looks very much like an Irish play,
:41:14. > :41:16.and it feeds into notions of Irishness. But yeah, the themes are
:41:17. > :41:21.universal, it's timeless. It's an Ireland that has never really
:41:22. > :41:25.changed, you know? I hardly dare say this, but it's a Father Ted Ireland,
:41:26. > :41:31.up to a point. Well, I don't know. I think there are echoes, perhaps. A
:41:32. > :41:36.similar type of humour saturates all of McPherson's work, actually. But
:41:37. > :41:40.yeah, some of the characters perhaps could have wandered out of a Father
:41:41. > :41:49.Ted script, but no, it's a place that time has passed by. These guys
:41:50. > :41:53.were round before Christianity. And, Brian, of course an awful lot of
:41:54. > :41:56.people know you from the great film epics, The X-Men and the Bourne
:41:57. > :42:00.films, and so on, and also from Braveheart. Right. Now, I do know
:42:01. > :42:04.that you were a voice of the Labour Party for a long time. I was. I'm
:42:05. > :42:08.still a member of the Labour Party. I'm proud to be a member of the
:42:09. > :42:10.Labour Party. You blotted your copybook by saying that you could
:42:11. > :42:14.support an independent Scotland. Very much so. I don't think these
:42:15. > :42:17.are mutually incompatible. I mean, some people complain, nationalism
:42:18. > :42:20.and independence. Independence is one thing, nationalism is something
:42:21. > :42:23.else. I'm not a nationalist, but I am into independence. And are you in
:42:24. > :42:27.favour of independence because you think that's the way to get a kind
:42:28. > :42:32.of left-leaning social contract for Scotland? It's not just Scotland.
:42:33. > :42:41.I'm very concerned about England. I'm an Anglophile. ? In Ireland
:42:42. > :42:46.we've been independent since 1922 until 2010 when the Germans took
:42:47. > :42:51.over. It was find while it lasted but you still have to get up in the
:42:52. > :42:56.morning and dress yourself. No, the thing for me is and why I've come
:42:57. > :43:04.round to it, because I was never that way inclined, because I've
:43:05. > :43:07.always been a staunch Labour guy, is watching Scotland grow culturally
:43:08. > :43:13.over the last 25 years. We've put the world to rights, thank you very
:43:14. > :43:19.much indeed. Thank you Andrew. I think more of our interviews should
:43:20. > :43:24.be done in bars. Last night the embattled President of the Ukraine
:43:25. > :43:27.offered his critics the Prime Ministership and the de-Su Prime
:43:28. > :43:33.Ministership, but that hasn't been enough to stave off the protests on
:43:34. > :43:38.the streets. Al-Qaeda is on the rampage in Iraq and the Taliban say
:43:39. > :43:42.they'll soon be back in Afghanistan and there's more killing on the
:43:43. > :43:46.streets of Egypt. What happened to our hopes for the Arab world?
:43:47. > :43:52.William Hague the Foreign Secretary joins me now. A very large agenda
:43:53. > :43:55.there. Let's start with Ukraine. This appears to have been a big
:43:56. > :44:00.offer by the President, but it's not enough. Are you concerned that the
:44:01. > :44:04.opposition are being too hard lined in itself by not accepting the
:44:05. > :44:09.offer? It is good that they are talking. We can't decide and judge
:44:10. > :44:13.for them in detail what consensus they should create in the Ukraine,
:44:14. > :44:18.but we can encourage them to do so. We are in touch with the Government.
:44:19. > :44:23.I spoke with the Foreign Minister of Ukraine on Friday to urge restraint
:44:24. > :44:26.in the face of violence, and that oppressive laws about freedom of
:44:27. > :44:31.expression and civil society should be changed, should be repealed. We
:44:32. > :44:35.will keep encouraging both sides to talk to each other and encourage the
:44:36. > :44:40.Ukrainian Government in that direction. How worried that Ukraine
:44:41. > :44:51.is on a tipping point and heading to a breakdown and serious violence
:44:52. > :44:55.across the entire state? We are very worried about that, of course we are
:44:56. > :45:00.very worried about the situation in Ukraine and I don't think it should
:45:01. > :45:07.be seen as an east-west struggle. If the Ukraine entered into agreements
:45:08. > :45:13.with the EU, that would benefit the people of Ukraine and Russia, that
:45:14. > :45:18.entire region, so we have to change the narrative about this. It seems
:45:19. > :45:21.there are not simply had byes and good guys because a lot of the
:45:22. > :45:26.protesters are from the right faction, and Ukrainian nationalists
:45:27. > :45:30.were very anti-EU and some of their views were very extreme as well so
:45:31. > :45:36.it is not one of these things where we have a dog in the fight, as it
:45:37. > :45:43.were. No, well we want to see a democratic Ukraine working well with
:45:44. > :45:47.its neighbours. If anything is to be retrieved from this, it's important
:45:48. > :45:51.that restrictive laws are now changed and a special session of
:45:52. > :45:56.Ukrainian parliament will take place this week, and the talks between
:45:57. > :46:01.government and opposition continued to some agreement. You were at the
:46:02. > :46:08.Syrian talks, what's the best that can come out of this? When I was
:46:09. > :46:13.asked how to judge success, I said that the talks still going on would
:46:14. > :46:19.be a success. It is good that confidence building measures can be
:46:20. > :46:25.adopted, to get humanitarian relief in some areas, but the real test of
:46:26. > :46:28.these talks is will the regime really engage this coming week on
:46:29. > :46:34.setting up a transitional government, and the opposition, to
:46:35. > :46:40.their great credit, said they accepted transitional governing body
:46:41. > :46:44.going into the opposition and the regime together. This is where the
:46:45. > :46:53.solution can be found. But there is no possibility of Assad stepping
:46:54. > :46:57.down? That is the biggest sticking point of all because nobody can
:46:58. > :47:05.rationally imagine Syria ever being led again after this terrible
:47:06. > :47:14.oppression and murder of so many people by the same person. Two and a
:47:15. > :47:19.half million children are in desperate circumstances in Syria, is
:47:20. > :47:27.there any progress on humanitarian corridors to get them some supper?
:47:28. > :47:33.There isn't much progress. There are particular areas that are besieged,
:47:34. > :47:37.and you can see the depravity and cruelty of this regime, that they
:47:38. > :47:41.are denying access for medical supplies and food to their own
:47:42. > :47:46.people in besieged cities in Syria so I hope that one of the
:47:47. > :47:54.by-products of these talks might be progress on that, but we are doing
:47:55. > :48:02.our utmost to help Save The Children doing work out where, and Britain is
:48:03. > :48:07.one of the most generous countries helping Syria. Talking about
:48:08. > :48:13.generosity, the door was left open to the possibility of Syrian
:48:14. > :48:17.refugees coming to this country. Is that moral duty? The Home Secretary
:48:18. > :48:23.is working on that and we'll have more to say in the coming days.
:48:24. > :48:28.There is a case for helping people who are particularly vulnerable. Is
:48:29. > :48:34.that code for Christians or any particular group? That is what the
:48:35. > :48:40.Home Secretary is working on, how we help people who might need to get
:48:41. > :48:45.away from that region, or who are particularly vulnerable to
:48:46. > :48:50.violence. Because of their religious views for instance? It is still
:48:51. > :48:56.being worked on, but we are looking at such a scheme. Whatever we can do
:48:57. > :49:03.on that, our main effort to help people will remain what we do out
:49:04. > :49:08.there. British aid is helping a third of a million people with food
:49:09. > :49:13.every day, a third of a million a month with medical consultations,
:49:14. > :49:17.and you can only do that out there in the region. Meanwhile the police
:49:18. > :49:26.have expressed concern about British people who have gone out there to
:49:27. > :49:30.fight, are you yourself concerned about the radicalisation of people
:49:31. > :49:36.in Syria bringing violence back to Europe? Yes, this is why conflicts
:49:37. > :49:41.like this affects our own national security. The longer it goes on, the
:49:42. > :49:45.greater these dangers are. That's why a political solution is so
:49:46. > :49:52.important, but it is a serious danger. People should know that
:49:53. > :49:54.firstly they should not be to Syria under any circumstances, and the
:49:55. > :50:04.Home Secretary has the power to remove the passport of someone we
:50:05. > :50:09.think is going to do that. We are on the lookout for these people. I
:50:10. > :50:14.described earlier on the rather bleak situation in Iraq and Egypt
:50:15. > :50:19.and so forth. Has there been a period in my lifetime British
:50:20. > :50:23.foreign policy has been as relatively impotent as it is at the
:50:24. > :50:31.moment? We are on the edge of Europe, cutting back our Armed
:50:32. > :50:35.Forces, do we still count? We do still count a lot, and you are right
:50:36. > :50:41.to describe the problems that exist, but we are not an important country.
:50:42. > :50:46.When you look at the work we are doing to stabilise Yemen, the
:50:47. > :50:50.assistance with Libya, the recent agreement with Iran on the nuclear
:50:51. > :50:55.programme, these are things which Britain is heavily involved in. It
:50:56. > :51:01.is true of these are vast problems and we are going through a
:51:02. > :51:05.particularly turbulent period in foreign affairs. We are the sixth
:51:06. > :51:13.biggest economy in the world, and Britain still has clout in the
:51:14. > :51:19.world. There was a promise of a referendum in 2017, that has now
:51:20. > :51:24.been stopped and described as a dead parrot. You can see the true colours
:51:25. > :51:27.of the Labour Party on this, they didn't say they were against it but
:51:28. > :51:34.they have done everything they can to talk it out, to frustrate this
:51:35. > :51:37.bill, that doesn't stop us is a Conservative opposition for the next
:51:38. > :51:43.Parliament, if David Cameron is Prime Minister after the next
:51:44. > :51:47.election there will be a referendum. You can see from the behaviour of
:51:48. > :51:52.the Labour Party that if he isn't, there won't be. A lot of MPs were
:51:53. > :51:56.desperate for this legislation to go through, they wanted to nail the
:51:57. > :52:02.promised the wall of a referendum and now it is not there. We are all
:52:03. > :52:07.very for this legislation to go through in the whole of the
:52:08. > :52:12.Conservative party, we are united on holding a referendum before the end
:52:13. > :52:17.of 2017, seeking a better deal for this country in Europe. This will
:52:18. > :52:21.remain the Conservative policy, we will not be put off this high antics
:52:22. > :52:28.in the House of Lords or in the Labour Party, and there will now be
:52:29. > :52:32.that straight choice of a referendum with the Conservatives or no
:52:33. > :52:39.referendum without the Conservatives. Were you concerned to
:52:40. > :52:44.see the opinion polls on the 50p tax rate very popular. If we trade
:52:45. > :52:47.opinion polls, I think economic confidence now in the Government
:52:48. > :52:52.team is so much higher than in anything Ed Balls is saying. I think
:52:53. > :52:57.what he is doing with the latest proposal is to send out the wrong
:52:58. > :53:00.signal about Britain. I see as Foreign Secretary every day the rest
:53:01. > :53:05.of the world seeing Britain with falling unemployment, with the real
:53:06. > :53:09.return of economic confidence, the long-term economic plan of this
:53:10. > :53:14.government working, and Ed Balls is sending the signal that if there is
:53:15. > :53:18.a Labour government, we go back to high taxing, high borrowing, high
:53:19. > :53:25.spending, and that is an anti-business, anti-job creation
:53:26. > :53:30.agenda. You will have the chance to discuss this after the news, but now
:53:31. > :53:34.it is time for the news with Naga Munchetty. The shadow chancellor has
:53:35. > :53:42.defended his announcement that the Labour government would have a 50p
:53:43. > :53:46.top rate of tax. Ed Balls said he would be determined to eliminate the
:53:47. > :53:52.deficit in the next Parliament but he would do so in a fairway. I don't
:53:53. > :53:56.feel you can justify cutting income tax for the highest earners, which
:53:57. > :54:01.is what David Cameron and George Osborne have done. I don't think
:54:02. > :54:06.that is a fair approach to deficit reduction. The Government is working
:54:07. > :54:12.on plans to allow more refugees to come to the UK from Syria. William
:54:13. > :54:15.Hague said the Home Secretary was working on the details.
:54:16. > :54:18.Representatives from the Syrian government and opposition groups are
:54:19. > :54:24.trying to seize power are meeting for a second day of face-to-face
:54:25. > :54:28.talks in Geneva. That's all from me. The next news on BBC One is at one
:54:29. > :54:31.o'clock. Back to Andrew in a moment. First, a brief look at what's coming
:54:32. > :54:35.up immediately after this programme. We are in Salford at ten o'clock and
:54:36. > :54:48.we will be debating one big question, it is war ever just? -- is
:54:49. > :54:56.war ever just? . Wlliam Hague's still here, and Ed
:54:57. > :55:00.Balls has returned. The 50p tax rate is essentially a political signal,
:55:01. > :55:05.the direction of travel movement, would you agree with that? Labour is
:55:06. > :55:13.saying we are all in this together to get the deficit down in a
:55:14. > :55:18.fairway. It is about how we make sure we raise revenue in a fair
:55:19. > :55:24.way. I understand Williams arguments but I don't think they wash with the
:55:25. > :55:35.public. I think it is a political signal. Every forecast Ed Balls has
:55:36. > :55:39.made has gone wrong. Which one? The forecast of rising unemployment. I
:55:40. > :55:42.think you will find you said there will be rising unemployment under
:55:43. > :55:49.the measures George Osborne has taken, now we have record
:55:50. > :55:52.employment, so it might be time to acknowledge the policies of the
:55:53. > :55:58.current government are reducing unemployment. I said that I feared
:55:59. > :56:03.George Osborne's policies would choke off the recovery and they
:56:04. > :56:08.did. I said I feared he would not get the deficit down in this
:56:09. > :56:15.Parliament and you haven't. The second strongest recovery in the G7.
:56:16. > :56:21.Will the deficit be balanced by the end of the parliament? It is not the
:56:22. > :56:33.Greek level of deficit. You know what the Chancellor has forecast.
:56:34. > :56:39.You opposed every reduction in welfare spending... Viewers, this is
:56:40. > :56:43.what it would be like if Andrew Marr was not sitting here, not all the
:56:44. > :56:46.time! Labour has been involved in stopping the referendum Bill go
:56:47. > :56:50.through, a lot of people in the Labour Party said it would be a
:56:51. > :56:53.clever move to offer the referendum yourselves in the next Parliament,
:56:54. > :56:59.and therefore split the Conservatives. Two years ago William
:57:00. > :57:03.and I went through the same voting lobby to vote against a referendum
:57:04. > :57:07.in this Parliament because we thought the national interest meant
:57:08. > :57:13.sorting out the form in Europe and our economy. William and David
:57:14. > :57:17.Cameron have had to go to the other lobby because they are trying to
:57:18. > :57:21.unite the Conservative party and they are doing so by destabilising
:57:22. > :57:26.business investment and our economy for a referendum on a question
:57:27. > :57:30.undefined, a treaty change on scene, a negotiation they have not
:57:31. > :57:35.even started, it is totally irresponsible but that is what
:57:36. > :57:45.William has to do to try to hold together the Conservative party.
:57:46. > :57:50.That is one view. That is one view. It is about giving people a choice,
:57:51. > :57:54.it is about democracy. This is a democratic country, people want a
:57:55. > :57:59.choice, and the right thing to do is to do that after we have shown
:58:00. > :58:04.whether we can improve the relationship with Europe, and the
:58:05. > :58:11.Labour Party has said no democracy, no choice. HS2, scrap that and save
:58:12. > :58:17.?40 billion, any temptation to do that? No, I think it is important to
:58:18. > :58:23.have more rail capacity in this country. We are investing in rail
:58:24. > :58:27.structure. We both know we need more capacity on the railways. If we are
:58:28. > :58:35.going to have more capacity, it should be a state-of-the-art, modern
:58:36. > :58:43.railway line. We need more capacity but the cost has spiralled out of
:58:44. > :58:47.control. That is why we will continue to scrutinise it. We
:58:48. > :58:51.supported HS2 but we need to make sure the costs are down and that
:58:52. > :58:55.this is in the end the best way to spend the money, and I don't think
:58:56. > :59:03.that is an argument that has yet been won. We have run out of time.
:59:04. > :59:06.Thanks to all of my guests. We're back next week with a range of
:59:07. > :59:08.guests, including the incomparable actor Ralph Fiennes and the fine
:59:09. > :59:12.singer songwriter Lloyd Cole. Serious talk, and a bit of
:59:13. > :59:21.commotion. Till then, a very good morning.