:00:34. > :00:39.Good morning. For those of you who stayed up late to watch the final
:00:40. > :00:44.episode of The Bridge on BBC Four last night, all I can say is thank
:00:45. > :00:48.you for joining us this early. Or as Saga from Malmo would say, "Tak". If
:00:49. > :00:52.you're suffering withdrawal symptoms from all things Nordic, you have
:00:53. > :00:55.come to the right place. We have got a powerful female politician, an
:00:56. > :01:00.enigmatic right-winger pulling the strings and some retro-cool. No
:01:01. > :01:05.exuberant knitwear - the studio's too hot - and, so far, no corpses
:01:06. > :01:08.either. Joining me today for our review of
:01:09. > :01:10.the Sunday newspapers, the Guardian's associate editor, Michael
:01:11. > :01:13.White, and Benedicte Paviot, correspondent for the French
:01:14. > :01:19.international news channel, France 24.
:01:20. > :01:23.Pick up some of those papers this morning, and there is one man who
:01:24. > :01:26.dominates above all. Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, is under
:01:27. > :01:28.attack for firing a supportive Labour woman, Baroness Morgan, as
:01:29. > :01:34.chair of the school inspectorate, and for his latest ideas about
:01:35. > :01:37.school discipline. He is also one of the more outspokenly Eurosceptic
:01:38. > :01:42.members of the Cabinet, so it is a good time to be talking to Mr Gove,
:01:43. > :01:44.a friend of the prime minister, in a week when David Cameron has been
:01:45. > :01:48.struggling over his all-important European policy.
:01:49. > :01:51.Labour have had a controversial week, too, however. Ed Miliband's
:01:52. > :01:55.radical reforms of his party's links with the unions could lose Labour ?4
:01:56. > :01:59.million a year, it is being said today. Others say it is a total
:02:00. > :02:03.surrender to the union activists, who will take the party much further
:02:04. > :02:06.to the left. Deputy leader Harriet Harman is here to deal with
:02:07. > :02:12.accusations that her party is making it easier for the unions to control
:02:13. > :02:15.Labour's policies. Since the dawn of cinema, Charles
:02:16. > :02:19.Dickens' books have been fine fodder for film-makers. Later, I will be
:02:20. > :02:23.talking to actor and director Ralph Fiennes, who has made a new film
:02:24. > :02:32.about Dickens and his secret mistress. She is the mother of your
:02:33. > :02:34.children. And for that, I shall always be grateful, but I do not
:02:35. > :02:38.love her. And we have live music. Still
:02:39. > :02:40.causing a commotion after all these years, Lloyd Cole is back with a new
:02:41. > :02:49.album and a new band. album and a new band.
:02:50. > :02:52.# I can't stop pushing you away, pushing you away.
:02:53. > :02:55.First, over to Naga for the morning's news headlines. Good
:02:56. > :02:59.morning. The Education Secretary Michael Gove is urging head teachers
:03:00. > :03:02.in England to clamp down on bad behaviour in the classroom. He's
:03:03. > :03:05.issued new guidelines encouraging schools to make use of
:03:06. > :03:07."old-fashioned" ways of punishing pupils including writing lines,
:03:08. > :03:20.picking up litter and serving detentions at the weekend.
:03:21. > :03:23.Maintaining discipline in the classroom is a challenge for schools
:03:24. > :03:29.everywhere. We doubt it, teaching and learning can become difficult,
:03:30. > :03:35.even impossible. Now, Michael Gove, in new guidance to English schools,
:03:36. > :03:38.is telling teachers that tough, but proportionate punishments are
:03:39. > :03:42.crucial to an effective education. He says that simply rewarding good
:03:43. > :03:47.behaviour is not enough. Michael Gove wants teachers to make more use
:03:48. > :03:50.of traditional punishments, like writing lines or making children
:03:51. > :03:57.attend early-morning detention sessions, before school. He is also
:03:58. > :04:01.talking about imposing community service-style punishments, like
:04:02. > :04:04.bigging up litter or cleaning the treaty. The Education Secretary says
:04:05. > :04:10.research shows that one in three secondary teachers don't feel
:04:11. > :04:14.confident disciplining pupils, and that 700,000 children are in schools
:04:15. > :04:20.where behaviour is lacking. The teaching unions are unconvinced. The
:04:21. > :04:22.Association of teachers and lecturers has accused Mr Gove of
:04:23. > :04:28.behaving bizarrely, pointing out that inspector has said behaviour is
:04:29. > :04:33.rated good or better in 90% of schools, while the Headteachers'
:04:34. > :04:37.union branded it as a PR exercise. Teachers are not getting any new
:04:38. > :04:42.powers with this guidance, just encouragement from the Education
:04:43. > :04:50.Secretary to make tougher use of the powers they already have.
:04:51. > :04:53.The row over the removal of Lady Morgan, the chair of the schools
:04:54. > :04:56.inspection service, Ofsted, has intensified. The Liberal Democrat
:04:57. > :04:59.education minister, David Laws, has accused Michael Gove of making the
:05:00. > :05:02.decision for political reasons. A source close to Mr Laws said he was
:05:03. > :05:05.determined not to let Mr Gove undermine Ofsted's independence.
:05:06. > :05:09.Downing Street has rejected claims by Lady Morgan - who's a Labour peer
:05:10. > :05:13.- that it's trying to fill the top jobs on public bodies with
:05:14. > :05:17.Conservative supporters. High tides and strong winds of
:05:18. > :05:19.nearly 85 miles an hour have driven waves onto the seafront at
:05:20. > :05:22.Aberystwyth, for the second time this year. Meanwhile, three severe
:05:23. > :05:26.flood warnings - which means there is danger to life - are in place
:05:27. > :05:28.along the River Severn in Gloucestershire. The Environment
:05:29. > :05:31.Secretary Owen Paterson says "everything possible" is being done
:05:32. > :05:39.to help those affected by flooding, with forecasters warning there's
:05:40. > :05:42.more bad weather to come. Aberystwyth last night, once again
:05:43. > :05:47.feeling the force of nature as gusts of up to 84 mph battered the Welsh
:05:48. > :05:52.coastline. It is just a month since another storm hit this same
:05:53. > :05:55.promenade on a deserted after hundreds of students living nearby
:05:56. > :05:59.were moved. The latest warnings come after the wettest January on record
:06:00. > :06:04.for piles of southern England . In the Midlands, south-west and
:06:05. > :06:07.south-east, around 150 properties have been flooded. In Devon and
:06:08. > :06:13.Somerset, the fire service has organised its biggest ever flood
:06:14. > :06:16.training operation. We are moving in excess of 3 million litres an hour,
:06:17. > :06:21.the equivalent of one Olympic swimming pool every hour. This is
:06:22. > :06:27.the famous Severn bore, the result of high tides surging up the river.
:06:28. > :06:31.Ridden by surfers yesterday, despite warnings of the dangers. More than
:06:32. > :06:35.100 flood warnings are in place across England and Wales. Today
:06:36. > :06:38.might provide a little respite, with rains and winds expected to ease,
:06:39. > :06:41.but more bad weather is forecast in the coming days.
:06:42. > :06:44.The head of the health watchdog the Care Quality Commission has made a
:06:45. > :06:47.strong attack on the NHS in England, saying it'll go bust without radical
:06:48. > :06:52.change. David Prior also said the organisation stigmatises those who
:06:53. > :06:57.try to speak out. The Department of Health says it's trying to eradicate
:06:58. > :07:00.poor care and supports openness. Voting in Thailand's general
:07:01. > :07:03.election - boycotted by the opposition and blighted by protests
:07:04. > :07:05.- is coming to an end. Anti-government protesters are
:07:06. > :07:10.trying to disrupt the vote and continue their campaign to force
:07:11. > :07:12.prime minister Shinawatra to resign. Yesterday, clashes between rival
:07:13. > :07:17.demonstrators left several people injured.
:07:18. > :07:24.That's all from me for now. I'll be back with the headlines just before
:07:25. > :07:28.ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew. Front-page headlines as usual, but
:07:29. > :07:31.you have heard most of these stories just now. Michael Gove is being
:07:32. > :07:34.attacked on the front of the Observer by the Liberal Democrats.
:07:35. > :07:38.He is on the front page of the Independent on Sunday, being
:07:39. > :07:42.attacked by the Liberal Democrats. There is the Sunday Telegraph with
:07:43. > :07:46.that story about NHS care and the Care Quality Commission. They also
:07:47. > :07:52.have a story about immigrant crime. The Sunday Times has a story about
:07:53. > :07:56.corrupt detectives. There was a lot of coverage of England's defeat in
:07:57. > :08:02.Paris as well in the rugby. The Mail on Sunday has a deadly risk of a
:08:03. > :08:06.pill used by 1 million women. And a Tory MP allegedly dressed as a Nazi.
:08:07. > :08:11.Finally, Scotland on Sunday has a story about Robbins in the Scottish
:08:12. > :08:15.health service and a story about a row in Scotland over gay marriage.
:08:16. > :08:21.It happens at Holyrood as well as Westminster. Thank you to both
:08:22. > :08:26.Benedicte and Michael for joining us. We start with the Gove story.
:08:27. > :08:32.And so we should. He is coming on your programme. And who did what? A
:08:33. > :08:35.week ago, Sir Michael Wilshaw, the government appointed ex-headmaster
:08:36. > :08:40.running Ofsted, complained that he was being briefed against by Gove
:08:41. > :08:50.aids, those shadowy special advisers. A few days later, Sally
:08:51. > :08:53.Morgan gets sacked. What is going on? Morgan was appointed by the
:08:54. > :08:58.Tories and was a reform of schools when she worked under Tony Blair.
:08:59. > :09:04.She is not a Luddite machine was willing to give free schools ago.
:09:05. > :09:08.But Ofsted have been critical of free schools and the use of
:09:09. > :09:15.amplified teachers. Remember, it is run by a tough test is headmaster --
:09:16. > :09:23.a tough former headmaster, Sir Michael Wilshaw. So what is going
:09:24. > :09:29.on, did Number Ten sack Lady Morgan? Then she hits back in these papers.
:09:30. > :09:39.And David Laws, who is Gove's deputy, supports her. The Lib Dems
:09:40. > :09:45.are very keen on this. We don't think that Michael Gove and David
:09:46. > :09:50.Laws are buddies anyway. That is right. David Laws fell off the
:09:51. > :09:55.coalition wagon after a month over his expenses. He is a super clever
:09:56. > :09:59.fellow. I will not say who has got more GCSEs. They are both clever
:10:00. > :10:06.fellows, but Michael Gove is a former journalist and he believes in
:10:07. > :10:11.headlines, like us. Maybe getting almost too many headlines this
:10:12. > :10:14.morning. Yes, he relaunched World War I the other day. The Sunday
:10:15. > :10:20.Times has a good headline - suspicion that a former Tory donor,
:10:21. > :10:24.private equity chief Theodore Agnew, is earmarked to replace her. Morgan
:10:25. > :10:27.says it is not just about getting rid of Labour people like me, it is
:10:28. > :10:31.about getting rid of all independence so that the Charity
:10:32. > :10:35.commission, schools and everyone else, Chris Smith of the Environment
:10:36. > :10:41.Agency is under fire over the flooding, and he is a Labour man
:10:42. > :10:46.too. But we don't have a quote from David Laws. It is about time he
:10:47. > :10:50.broke cover. That would be going too far. Benedicte, I want to turn to
:10:51. > :10:53.the meat of some of the Gove announcements, including discipline.
:10:54. > :10:57.Who better to have than a friend woman to talk about school
:10:58. > :11:00.discipline? You look at it differently over there. Yes, and
:11:01. > :11:08.having gone through the French system myself, I agree with what is
:11:09. > :11:14.here termed as old-fashioned discipline. Writing lines. The new
:11:15. > :11:18.trend is about having community service, but this is guidance. What
:11:19. > :11:27.happens to a poorly behaved pupil in a French school? You get held back
:11:28. > :11:31.for an hour or two. You get brought back on a Saturday and you get to
:11:32. > :11:38.write lines out 100 times. You have to do more homework. Don't reinvent
:11:39. > :11:42.the wheel. A bit of discipline. It is like being a parent. Don't
:11:43. > :11:48.threaten something you are not prepared to carry out. So I think
:11:49. > :11:51.this sounds sensible. The point is that a lot of teachers don't know
:11:52. > :11:56.any more. They are terrified either of being hit by some pupils, but
:11:57. > :12:02.more frequently, they are afraid of litigation. So they don't know what
:12:03. > :12:06.they can or can't do. There is a loss of authority. And there is a
:12:07. > :12:13.threat of litigation right across society. Maybe David Cameron could
:12:14. > :12:16.borrow Gove's rules for the Conservative Party, because there is
:12:17. > :12:22.a lack of discipline there. I will obey the leader, 100 times. I am
:12:23. > :12:28.suddenly glad you are not my maths teacher. I can see you looking
:12:29. > :12:35.scary. It is the moustache. And the tone of voice. What's next? There is
:12:36. > :12:41.a worrying story in the Daily Mail about women who are on the pill.
:12:42. > :12:46.Fatal blood clots. There is always a worrying story in the Daily Mail
:12:47. > :12:52.about the pill. It is a specialism. The Daily Express also do it. One of
:12:53. > :13:00.the pill is concerned is called Yasmin. The health warning is, don't
:13:01. > :13:04.take my word or the Daily Mail's word for it, if you are taking these
:13:05. > :13:12.pills, you should consult your doctor. But we know there have been
:13:13. > :13:19.14 deaths in France from this. How do people die from it? They get a
:13:20. > :13:23.blood clot and die from that. But others are saying 14 deaths, given
:13:24. > :13:29.the huge number of women who take it, it is not that dangerous. This
:13:30. > :13:32.is a scare story. They are right to say that if women are vulnerable to
:13:33. > :13:36.blood clots, maybe they should go on another pill. This is a
:13:37. > :13:41.third-generation pill. It is much more friendly, although what do I
:13:42. > :13:46.know? If you read it to the end, it has been around for a long time.
:13:47. > :13:53.Everything is dangerous. Pregnancy is dangerous as well. At the
:13:54. > :14:01.beginning of the programme, I mentioned the Labour Party's union
:14:02. > :14:06.reform. Yes. Look at this magnificent observer all you need to
:14:07. > :14:12.know article. I have written a lot of these in my time. If you are
:14:13. > :14:15.named here as an important person, you are in trouble. The lads will
:14:16. > :14:21.get you behind the bike shed and make you write 100 lines next week.
:14:22. > :14:27.It is about Miliband trying to reform the relationship with the
:14:28. > :14:31.unions, the money and the votes. There are a lot of American gurus
:14:32. > :14:35.coming in to help. The Labour Party has always turned to the United
:14:36. > :14:40.States and the Democratic party, even to Theodore reserve at 100
:14:41. > :14:43.years ago, rather than to Europe. It is the lack of Marxism in the
:14:44. > :14:51.British labour movement. They don't go to French intellectuals. And as
:14:52. > :14:54.everyone scrabbles around to try to make sense of the proposed union
:14:55. > :15:01.changes, the Labour leadership will be pleased that Andrew Walmsley in
:15:02. > :15:07.the Observer has a piece which sounds optimistic. He says it is
:15:08. > :15:11.finishing what Neil Kinnock started. I think it is too optimistic. Some
:15:12. > :15:16.of the paper said that if you get rid of the unions' big cheque-books
:15:17. > :15:19.and rely on ?3 a head for union members opting in to pay this money
:15:20. > :15:25.to the Labour Party and get some voting rights on the leader, it will
:15:26. > :15:29.cost ordinary members of ?40. They might lose 4 million quid. Friends
:15:30. > :15:34.of mine said the gap in labour's budget could be ?8 million, just at
:15:35. > :15:38.a time when the Conservatives are coining it in. So when Ed Miliband
:15:39. > :15:41.says it is a big risk, that is true? Definitely, although there will also
:15:42. > :15:47.have a new process for electing a leader. Miliband was voted for by
:15:48. > :15:57.union bosses, and now it will be harder. The election campaign has
:15:58. > :16:01.definitely kicked off because the only Ed Miliband has been stung by
:16:02. > :16:11.the criticism and the image which has stuck about the one member, one
:16:12. > :16:16.vote. I was there, we know the tenterhooks, so he is trying to
:16:17. > :16:29.dispel that. John Prescott feels strongly about it and he is backing
:16:30. > :16:36.this. As you referred to, he is saying he is in favour of it and he
:16:37. > :16:49.started this process in 1993. That is a good headline! The leader put
:16:50. > :16:55.his Ed on the block! You are a journalist who follows Francois
:16:56. > :16:59.Hollande, normally in France we hear it is the other way round, he
:17:00. > :17:07.follows journalists, but tell me about what is in the paper today.
:17:08. > :17:14.There are two different angles, one is about the summit when the French
:17:15. > :17:20.president declined to answer about his personal life and this alleged
:17:21. > :17:26.affair he had. More importantly for David Cameron, he said it was not a
:17:27. > :17:33.priority to renegotiate Britain's relationships. That is a serious
:17:34. > :17:39.blow. Luck it is, because David Cameron needs powerful allies. This
:17:40. > :17:44.article is trying to put a positive spin on it, saying it is a process
:17:45. > :17:50.of negotiations and it is not a definite no, but that is not what I
:17:51. > :17:58.have heard. Do you think Francois Hollande has
:17:59. > :18:05.taken offence about what has been said about the French economy in
:18:06. > :18:17.recent months? Certainly the French press feels there has been some
:18:18. > :18:21.French bashing, and Francois Hollande has been ridiculed because
:18:22. > :18:27.of his personal life, also because of the bad unemployment figures.
:18:28. > :18:33.President Hollande campaigned about getting the unemployment figures
:18:34. > :18:39.down and he has not succeeded. In the Daily Telegraph there is a very
:18:40. > :18:43.good article by my colleague and she talks about how he had a good visit
:18:44. > :18:50.in Turkey but basically this ridicule, of course, he prepared his
:18:51. > :18:56.answer about the woman he had an affair with, who on Friday was
:18:57. > :19:04.nominated for the Best supporting role. We could make her the head of
:19:05. > :19:12.Ofsted, the French know how to do it. And you have a great photograph.
:19:13. > :19:18.Hold it up, he doesn't take dignified photographs, does he? And
:19:19. > :19:28.this has been singled out as a very mean picture taken by the British
:19:29. > :19:35.press. Interesting, Mr Cameron looks all right. This is a trained French
:19:36. > :19:41.journalist, this only speculation. The other picture which I loved
:19:42. > :19:52.here, and all London commuters will particularly enjoy, port -- Bob Crow
:19:53. > :20:01.preparing for his strike in Brazil! It is a photo of Bob Crow preparing
:20:02. > :20:10.two days of paying for Londoners. He feels our pain. I don't know if he
:20:11. > :20:15.does, he has been there for two weeks and he has sunburn. We cannot
:20:16. > :20:25.finish without talking about the rugby, a great day for France. It
:20:26. > :20:35.was called the crunch, the British were brilliant, the English I beg
:20:36. > :20:42.your pardon. English region and we haven't actually played yet. But the
:20:43. > :20:50.Welsh are very strong. We are unionists, we want them both to
:20:51. > :20:55.win! There is the grand slam so there is still hope. Thank you very
:20:56. > :20:58.much indeed. And so to the weather. Terrible floods again.1767, George
:20:59. > :21:01.III on the throne. We still run North America. A man called Daniel
:21:02. > :21:04.Boone discovers a place called Kentucky and Europeans - British
:21:05. > :21:08.ship, in fact, arrives for the first time at Tahiti. 1767. Jeremy
:21:09. > :21:11.Clarkson was just a boy. And it was the last time, apparently, that we
:21:12. > :21:12.had flooding this bad. Over to the weather studio, and Tomasz
:21:13. > :21:25.Schafernaker. What an epic introduction to the
:21:26. > :21:31.weather file and not very epic weather forecast. It is a lot better
:21:32. > :21:36.than yesterday, we just have the leftovers of the storm which has
:21:37. > :21:46.blown itself out. We are still feeling the tail end of this storm,
:21:47. > :21:54.but on balance the most today there is a bit of wind and some showers
:21:55. > :22:01.and not a bad day to go out and about. Tonight goes clear for money
:22:02. > :22:04.to start with, but then the weather unfortunately goes downhill again so
:22:05. > :22:09.by the time we get to five o'clock on Monday the rain is nudging into
:22:10. > :22:13.the western fringes of the Southwest, Wales into Scotland as
:22:14. > :22:18.well, and gales blowing at up to 60 mph. I think it will be quite a
:22:19. > :22:24.narrow band of rain so it will be hit and miss depending on where you
:22:25. > :22:32.are. As we head into Wednesday, there is a familiar story, zillions
:22:33. > :22:38.of isobars which means the wind will be very strong, lots of cloud, lots
:22:39. > :22:43.of rain, and to summarise it can only be said that there is more rain
:22:44. > :22:44.and more gales, but let's just get through the sunshine today and enjoy
:22:45. > :22:54.what we have. Ever since last summer and the row
:22:55. > :22:57.over selection of a candidate in Falkirk, Ed Miliband has been
:22:58. > :23:00.promising a radical reshaping of his party's relationship with the trade
:23:01. > :23:04.unions who are, awkwardly, among his main paymasters too. Now, at last,
:23:05. > :23:07.we have the suggested package of changes, heralded by Mr Miliband as
:23:08. > :23:11.one of the biggest and boldest things he's done so far. Harriet
:23:12. > :23:16.Harman, his deputy, joins us now. It is all about the numbers up to a
:23:17. > :23:20.point, you have something like 200,000 ordinary Labour Party
:23:21. > :23:26.members and there are 2.7 trade unionists, so if only 10% of the
:23:27. > :23:31.trade unionists actually sign up as members of the Labour Party, they
:23:32. > :23:37.will overwhelm current members of the Labour Party, that's right isn't
:23:38. > :23:42.it? It's not all about the numbers, it's about opening up the Labour
:23:43. > :23:48.Party to people in work places up and down the country, broadening the
:23:49. > :23:52.base of the Labour Party, but doing it in a legitimate and realistic
:23:53. > :23:57.way. The idea to juxtapose people who are working in call centres,
:23:58. > :24:03.factories, warehouses, public services, to juxtapose them, people
:24:04. > :24:07.who support the Labour Party and have actually registered to be on
:24:08. > :24:10.the books of the Labour Party, to juxtapose them against the
:24:11. > :24:15.membership of the Labour Party and say they shouldn't have a vote in
:24:16. > :24:21.the leadership I think is wrong. These proposals broaden the base of
:24:22. > :24:25.the party in a legitimate way. Up and down the country under these
:24:26. > :24:31.proposals, it is quite likely the Labour Party will be dominated by
:24:32. > :24:40.new trade union members. I query the word domination. There will be
:24:41. > :24:45.people at work, ordinary people at work, and this will reinvigorate the
:24:46. > :24:56.party at a local level. How about they will be heavily influenced by
:24:57. > :25:00.trade union members. It will breathe new life into the party. To have a
:25:01. > :25:04.strong local connection between people who are working and living
:25:05. > :25:09.locally, together with the Labour Party, that is what our democracy
:25:10. > :25:16.needs in this country. I think it is being slightly phobic about trade
:25:17. > :25:22.unionists. Why shouldn't they have a say about the leader of the party
:25:23. > :25:26.they support? Absolutely right but trade union activists have a trade
:25:27. > :25:34.union agenda and that is their right. If you give them a cut-price
:25:35. > :25:41.?3 entry into the Labour Party, why not do it for members of the
:25:42. > :25:46.National trust? Why just trade unionist? There is nothing wrong
:25:47. > :25:50.with being an activist but this is about everybody and we have a range
:25:51. > :25:55.of members. If you are a student you get to join the party for ?1. If you
:25:56. > :26:00.are a member of the Armed Forces, you get to join the party for ?1.
:26:01. > :26:04.Here we are saying that if you are a member of the trade union which is
:26:05. > :26:13.affiliated with the Labour Party and you sign up to join and you pay ?3,
:26:14. > :26:18.you can vote in the leadership election. All the people who vote
:26:19. > :26:24.want to see us in government. If you bring in lots more trade union
:26:25. > :26:27.members, and there will be the activists inevitably, that will tilt
:26:28. > :26:33.the Labour Party more in a trade union direction, it is like night
:26:34. > :26:37.follows day into it? If you mean people who care about more people
:26:38. > :26:42.being able to get jobs, being able to have the living wage, caring
:26:43. > :26:47.about decent terms and conditions, caring about equality and social
:26:48. > :26:52.justice, yes that is a good thing, that is what the Labour Party
:26:53. > :26:55.believes in, and they will only be in the Labour Party election for the
:26:56. > :27:00.leadership if they have signed up to the Labour Party and we then ballot
:27:01. > :27:05.them because they have said they support the Labour Party. They have
:27:06. > :27:10.to not only be a member of the trade union but they have to turn to us
:27:11. > :27:14.and say we want to be part of the party. How can you be certain they
:27:15. > :27:21.are Labour Party supporters when they join? How can you make sure
:27:22. > :27:26.anybody is supporting anything? They will have to sign that they support
:27:27. > :27:31.the Labour Party and no other party and they will have to give them
:27:32. > :27:36.money so actually that is the way parties work. It is a very easy way
:27:37. > :27:43.for members of other parties to sign up, get into the Labour Party and
:27:44. > :27:48.have a big influence. I know people are asking that question but I think
:27:49. > :27:53.it combines being slightly phobic about trade unions and also
:27:54. > :27:57.patronising. This is about ordinary people at work who will make up
:27:58. > :28:02.their own minds about who they want to have as a leader, and it will be
:28:03. > :28:08.good for us to be engaged at a local level. We are talking about people
:28:09. > :28:14.who work in offices and shops, people who are also members of trade
:28:15. > :28:22.unions. Why is it that some of your key colleagues are very worried
:28:23. > :28:28.about this then? I hope they will listen to the facts and be in favour
:28:29. > :28:31.of it. The ballot goes out to people all around the country, and many
:28:32. > :28:38.more numbers we hope than currently vote but who have said will support
:28:39. > :28:48.the Labour Party. How many trade union members do you think the party
:28:49. > :29:03.will have in the years time? We hope many will become members, it could
:29:04. > :29:13.be 270,000 more people involved at a local level and that would be good
:29:14. > :29:16.for politics. They would obviously alongside Labour Party members, they
:29:17. > :29:22.would be able to vote in the leadership election, but at the end
:29:23. > :29:27.of the day, why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't you have a say in the vote
:29:28. > :29:32.for the leadership? I think it is a good thing. Let's move on, this will
:29:33. > :29:37.be discussed at a special conference later in the year, and we thought
:29:38. > :29:41.this was going to be an open conference under debate but there
:29:42. > :29:47.are now rumours it will go on for two hours, is that right? There will
:29:48. > :29:52.be discussions under conference and we will decide and people will
:29:53. > :30:01.vote. There is loads of debate going on. And will the proposals be
:30:02. > :30:05.subject to amendment at that conference? Yes or no, a rubber
:30:06. > :30:12.stamp? No, because people can say no. The rules of the Labour Party
:30:13. > :30:16.have changed over time and the leader has a responsibility to say
:30:17. > :30:21.this is how I see it, and the party can I be back that or not. On the
:30:22. > :30:25.money, is it true that the price for this deal the unions will carry on
:30:26. > :30:32.supporting the Labour Party at roughly the same level until the
:30:33. > :30:37.general election? We are phasing this in over five years. There has
:30:38. > :30:41.been hot-headed talk over union financing. For the avoidance of
:30:42. > :30:45.doubt, the biggest donors to the Labour Party are our individual
:30:46. > :30:50.members. Many of whom will be a bit hacked off to find they could have
:30:51. > :30:55.joined for the ?3 rather than ?43. I don't think so, because they also
:30:56. > :31:01.know that students can join for ?1. Former armed forces members can join
:31:02. > :31:05.for ?1. There is a reduced rate for those who are unemployed. The point
:31:06. > :31:13.is that Labour Party members can stand as MPs and can vote in local
:31:14. > :31:17.elections. It is different. Some of the papers are saying this will cost
:31:18. > :31:22.the Labour Party ?4 million a year. Is that a figure you recognise? It
:31:23. > :31:26.is being phased in over five years, because it does have financial
:31:27. > :31:31.implications. But what is important about this is that it broadens the
:31:32. > :31:34.base of the party in a legitimate way. You can't start by talking
:31:35. > :31:38.about money and work your way back to the right decision. You have to
:31:39. > :31:45.make the right decision and try to raise the money as well. I thought
:31:46. > :31:49.the main thing was to make sure the money keeps coming in. That is not
:31:50. > :31:56.at all what was said. There is too much cloak and dagger stuff about
:31:57. > :32:00.that. This is all in the open, these proposals. They will go to the party
:32:01. > :32:05.conference, and I hope people support them. A lot of people will
:32:06. > :32:09.say, why aren't you spending all your time talking about the economy
:32:10. > :32:14.and the health service? These are important issues. Why fiddle with
:32:15. > :32:18.the party rules? But it is important that our party's roots are deep and
:32:19. > :32:22.that when people vote for the leadership, it is because they have
:32:23. > :32:28.chosen to support the Labour Party and are paying. Would Ed Miliband
:32:29. > :32:32.have been voted for as leader if this had been in place before? It is
:32:33. > :32:34.impossible to say. The point is that Ed Miliband was elected fair and
:32:35. > :32:40.square under the old rules. But he thinks it is time for a change in
:32:41. > :32:43.those rules, and he is right. What about the fact that the conference
:32:44. > :32:48.voting will not change on policy matters? Surely that is the crucial
:32:49. > :32:55.question. The unions will still have a 50% say. What he is proposing for
:32:56. > :32:59.the March conference is a huge change - in financing, in voting for
:33:00. > :33:06.the leader and what goes on at local level . In due course, it may have
:33:07. > :33:11.implications for other things, but it is already a big issue to take
:33:12. > :33:14.forward. Thank you for joining us. Now to something entirely
:33:15. > :33:18.different. Apart from being a fine actor, Ralph Fiennes has carved out
:33:19. > :33:23.quite a career as a director. His debut behind the camera, Coriolanus,
:33:24. > :33:26.was a critical hit. His second outing as director also sees him
:33:27. > :33:30.playing the central role. The Invisible Woman is about Charles
:33:31. > :33:33.Dickens' infatuation with a much younger actress, Nelly Ternan.
:33:34. > :33:37.Fiennes plays the author at the peak of his career when the affair
:33:38. > :33:41.overturns both his marriage and reputation. When we met, Ralph
:33:42. > :33:45.Fiennes told me about how Dickens, who was also an accomplished actor
:33:46. > :33:51.in his day, was undone by love. My sense is that Dickens was a very
:33:52. > :33:54.gregarious, socially vital, workaholic man who loved being the
:33:55. > :33:58.centre of a social event. We see him at the beginning, rehearsing with a
:33:59. > :34:02.group of actors in an amateur production. He falls in love with a
:34:03. > :34:07.much younger girl, and there is the trauma which comes with a leap of
:34:08. > :34:11.the heart that is also catastrophic. This man spent most of his career
:34:12. > :34:18.celebrity the heart and family, and now he smashes it to pieces. I think
:34:19. > :34:23.it surprises him. I think he probably did not expect that sort of
:34:24. > :34:26.thing to come at him. My theory is that he had been writing the perfect
:34:27. > :34:32.half of the end of earlier novels with this demure, perfect,
:34:33. > :34:39.angel-like woman, whether it is Agnes in David Copperfield or Esther
:34:40. > :34:43.Summerson in Bleak House. And then the Lee walked into his life in this
:34:44. > :34:46.rehearsal, and I think he projected onto her this ideal. It was not
:34:47. > :34:50.necessarily that Nelly was that person. I think Nellie was a
:34:51. > :34:56.self-contained, self-possessed young actress. And he decided that was
:34:57. > :35:05.her. I hope the film tries to show how Nelly negotiates Dickens. Did
:35:06. > :35:10.you send Catherine to me? Yes. She's the mother of children? And I shall
:35:11. > :35:16.always be grateful, but I do not love her. She comprehends nothing.
:35:17. > :35:19.She sees nothing. I thought she saw you, she would understand that I
:35:20. > :35:33.have nothing with her. I wanted her to see it. It? What is "it",
:35:34. > :35:36.Charles? What is it that we are? And quite ignorant about Dickens. I did
:35:37. > :35:41.not know much about the man and I had only read one Dickens novel, so
:35:42. > :35:46.it has been a discovery. The book for me to want to make it was Nelly.
:35:47. > :35:49.The film explores her as she is being pursued by Dickens and how
:35:50. > :35:55.young girl has to negotiate their way through Dickens' and Morris at
:35:56. > :36:00.attention. And then later in her life, how she finds some kind of
:36:01. > :36:04.closure with it. This is a very pretty cottage. Thank you, if a
:36:05. > :36:09.little small. The other extraordinary character in the film
:36:10. > :36:13.is Nelly's mother, played by the wonderful Kristin Scott Thomas, who
:36:14. > :36:21.is aware that her daughter is about to commit sin and social disaster.
:36:22. > :36:26.My daughter is a fine young woman. Sometimes, an actress for the
:36:27. > :36:36.future. I understand. If I may be of assistance in any way? I cannot risk
:36:37. > :36:41.Nelly's reputation. I hope that nothing I can offer would compromise
:36:42. > :36:45.her. This was fascinating to me, because
:36:46. > :36:48.Claire Tomalin deals with this in the book. It is clearly a social
:36:49. > :36:52.disaster for a young girl to be seen as the mistress for Dickens.
:36:53. > :36:59.Disastrous for him and for her, scandalous. And yet, by all evidence
:37:00. > :37:05.that Claire presents, the mother acquiesces and, in unspoken way,
:37:06. > :37:10.almost approves the love affair, because Dickens was a catch. It
:37:11. > :37:15.struck me how Dickens is here pursued as a global celebrity who
:37:16. > :37:17.can't go anywhere without crowds around him. And he's tried to
:37:18. > :37:22.conduct a competitive private life under the glare of publicity. There
:37:23. > :37:27.is an irony that Dickens, being a kind of superstar in the
:37:28. > :37:33.English-speaking world, a literary superstar, certainly, when this
:37:34. > :37:37.thing happens to him and he decided to exit his marriage, he does the
:37:38. > :37:44.thing you should never do, which is to justify it to the Times. Can I
:37:45. > :37:48.ask a bit more generally? This is your second big film as a director.
:37:49. > :37:56.These films are presumably very expensive to raise money for. To
:37:57. > :38:00.what extent do you leverage your fame to give you the power to raise
:38:01. > :38:03.the money to make the films you want to make? There is no question that
:38:04. > :38:08.playing Voldemort and the huge success of the Harry Potter
:38:09. > :38:12.franchise and being the main bad guy in that, there is no question that
:38:13. > :38:19.that helps. When you go to raise money for a film, there was a
:38:20. > :38:27.terrifying reality which is that you sit down with money people, very
:38:28. > :38:30.established stars and actors, and suddenly you are told that they do
:38:31. > :38:35.not mean anything any more because they were successful three years ago
:38:36. > :38:39.and now it is so and so. So do I have any meaning in this sense? So
:38:40. > :38:43.Harry Potter certainly helped. It is a strange thought that it is thanks
:38:44. > :38:47.to JK Rowling that we can get Shakespeare and Dickens on the
:38:48. > :38:54.screen. Yes! There was a funny reality that you don't encounter if
:38:55. > :38:57.you are just being an encounter and you are waiting for the phone to
:38:58. > :39:00.ring and get a job. But if you are waiting for the money to make a
:39:01. > :39:05.film, the distributors and studios have a thing about who is in. It is
:39:06. > :39:11.uncomfortable. Going back to Dickens, he was a very serious
:39:12. > :39:19.thespian himself. He wanted to be an actor. And you think he was a good
:39:20. > :39:24.one? I do. I read a review of his acting, and it said "Mister Dickens
:39:25. > :39:28.does not come to the footlights and grandstand his emotions. If he is a
:39:29. > :39:32.man depressed, he is a man depressed, we believe him as quote.
:39:33. > :39:37.So it all connects. It is Dickens and your own ambition. Thank you
:39:38. > :39:42.very much. Ralph finds, a clever fellow. Now,
:39:43. > :39:46.Michael Gove, another clever fellow, the Education Secretary, has the
:39:47. > :39:49.reputation for being one of the Tory radicals in the coalition cabinet.
:39:50. > :39:52.Over the past few days, his office has poured out another range of
:39:53. > :39:56.ideas about tougher discipline in schools, shorter school holidays,
:39:57. > :40:01.tests for four-year-olds and so one. But being a radical also means you
:40:02. > :40:04.get tangled in controversy. And as we have heard, there has been
:40:05. > :40:09.criticism over his decision to get rid of Sally Morgan, a Labour peer
:40:10. > :40:14.Baroness Morgan, chair of Ofsted. Mr Gove joins me now. You appointed
:40:15. > :40:19.Sally? And she is a fantastic person. She will carry on working
:40:20. > :40:24.alongside us until September. Has she been a good head of Ofsted? Yes,
:40:25. > :40:27.she has done a good job. She and Sir Michael Wilshaw, the chief
:40:28. > :40:33.inspector, are a fantastic team. I have known Sally for several years.
:40:34. > :40:37.Before I appointed her, I admired the fact that she was a brave and
:40:38. > :40:41.principled person who was prepared sometimes to defy party orthodoxy to
:40:42. > :40:48.do the right thing. She is a good egg. So why kick her out? Well, I
:40:49. > :40:52.think it is recognised across government that from time to time,
:40:53. > :40:56.you need to refresh the person who is chair of a particular body in
:40:57. > :41:01.order to bring a new pair of eyes to bear. In the Department of Education
:41:02. > :41:05.itself, we had a further three years, but that is the term. At the
:41:06. > :41:08.end of an individual term, it is appropriate to consider whether or
:41:09. > :41:14.not we might need a new person to bring a new post it. But here is an
:41:15. > :41:19.excellent egg running often very well, and yet she is having to go,
:41:20. > :41:24.and she is upset about it. I was told that when she asked you about
:41:25. > :41:30.it, you said, well, you and labour. And she is Labour. Was that your
:41:31. > :41:33.explanation? Let me be clear. This government is happy to appoint
:41:34. > :41:37.people, whatever their political background, two important jobs. I
:41:38. > :41:41.appointed Sally in the first place, knowing she was Labour. We also
:41:42. > :41:48.appointed a former Labour special adviser, Simon Stephens, to head the
:41:49. > :41:56.NHS. When it came to the new chair of Ofsted, we will appoint on merit.
:41:57. > :42:00.A Tory donor called Mr Agnew? Well, if there is an outstanding labour
:42:01. > :42:03.candidate who wants to do it, I am the government will look on their
:42:04. > :42:07.application with the same degree of favour as we would anyone else who
:42:08. > :42:11.is highly qualified. It is wrong to try to argue that this government is
:42:12. > :42:16.favouring one group of individuals over another. There is a pattern.
:42:17. > :42:20.There is Jennie Brand ski at the Heritage Lottery Fund, Baroness
:42:21. > :42:24.Andrews at English Heritage, Sally Morgan, Liz Morgan at the arts
:42:25. > :42:27.Council. Left-leaning women are being kicked out. There is also a
:42:28. > :42:33.pattern of distinguished figures with no political allegiance being
:42:34. > :42:37.appointed. If you look at the figures rather than a few examples,
:42:38. > :42:43.in the first three years of the coalition, three times as many
:42:44. > :42:47.people who were Labour were appointed or reappointed to public
:42:48. > :42:51.bodies as Conservatives. And now you are having second thoughts?
:42:52. > :42:54.Absolutely not. I believe it was right for me to have appointed
:42:55. > :43:01.Sally. She has done a fantastic job. But it is also the case, that
:43:02. > :43:05.for example, we used to have the chairman of the board within the
:43:06. > :43:08.Department for Education as a distinguished figure with no
:43:09. > :43:13.political allegiance. Then I decide to appoint a Liberal Democrat. The
:43:14. > :43:19.only pattern you can see is appointment on merit and a desire to
:43:20. > :43:21.make sure we have tough figures to concentrate on improving the
:43:22. > :43:27.education system. Do you understand Sally Morgan's amusement when she is
:43:28. > :43:32.told she is fantastic, but take your coat as you leave? Well, I talked to
:43:33. > :43:35.Sally yesterday on the day before. If there is another opportunity for
:43:36. > :43:38.her to serve in a different role at a different time, I would be
:43:39. > :43:43.delighted to support her in whatever role is appropriate. There is
:43:44. > :43:50.nothing wrong with Sally, but there is a principle across government
:43:51. > :43:54.that there should be no automatic reappointment and after whatever the
:43:55. > :43:57.term is in a particular role, it is appropriate to bring a fresh pair of
:43:58. > :44:02.eyes. That is good corporate practice in order to ensure that you
:44:03. > :44:05.refresh wards and bring a new perspective and have tough questions
:44:06. > :44:12.asked. Sally herself replaced someone who had been in post for
:44:13. > :44:18.four years. Sally, having brought significant gifts to this role, will
:44:19. > :44:22.bring superb debts to another role in the future. Is Mr Agnew being
:44:23. > :44:29.lined up? Anyone can apply who feels they have something to bring to the
:44:30. > :44:33.organisation. I want the widest possible range of candidates. No one
:44:34. > :44:36.should be ruled out on the basis of political age allegiance. If someone
:44:37. > :44:39.is a distinguished former minister and wants to put their hat in the
:44:40. > :44:45.ring, I would look favourably on that. If there is someone who is a
:44:46. > :44:48.conservative, why should they be ruled out just because they are a
:44:49. > :44:55.conservative? That would be wrong. We want to appoint on merit. Sounds
:44:56. > :44:59.like you are lining up the Conservative donor for this job? It
:45:00. > :45:02.is wrong to rule anyone out. The important thing is to make sure we
:45:03. > :45:10.have a broad field. The appointment will be made in accordance with the
:45:11. > :45:15.rules, which are clear and fair. There is a process to go through
:45:16. > :45:17.which is at arm's length from ministers. I would expect that the
:45:18. > :45:21.person chairing the appointment panel will be the gentleman I
:45:22. > :45:24.mentioned earlier, Paul Marshall, a friend of mine who is a Liberal
:45:25. > :45:30.Democrat party donor. The fact that he is chairing the panel is one of
:45:31. > :45:34.the guarantees of integrity you would expect. Was it your decision
:45:35. > :45:46.or Number Ten's decision? Absolutely my decision. There has been
:45:47. > :45:50.discussion about lengthening the school day, is that something you
:45:51. > :45:56.want to roll out across the country? Not quite, the idea came
:45:57. > :46:01.from Paul Kirby who has now moved back into the private sector. There
:46:02. > :46:04.is a case for varying it in order to give people access to cheaper
:46:05. > :46:10.holidays but I do believe we need to have a longer school day. I don't
:46:11. > :46:14.believe they should be mandated like that from the centre right now. We
:46:15. > :46:23.need to work with the profession in order to ensure we can provide the
:46:24. > :46:28.extracurricular activities that pupils get in private fee-paying
:46:29. > :46:33.schools. I can see the case for this but it will cost money, people
:46:34. > :46:41.staying on for longer to supervise acceptor. There is already within
:46:42. > :46:45.the state system the example of a number of schools funded just as
:46:46. > :46:50.tightly as other schools that are already providing an extended school
:46:51. > :47:04.day with all sorts of activities, whether it is competitive sport,
:47:05. > :47:07.drama, or debating, that helped a -- help to build character and grit.
:47:08. > :47:11.One of the things we are also talking about today is the
:47:12. > :47:16.importance of behaviour. I will come onto that in a moment but you
:47:17. > :47:20.mentioned the question of school holidays and the expensive prices
:47:21. > :47:24.some people face for going abroad and so forth. Do you have any
:47:25. > :47:32.sympathy with people who take their children out of school to capitalise
:47:33. > :47:36.on a holidays? I do find the cost of holidays during school holidays
:47:37. > :47:41.excessive but the answer is not to take children out of school in term
:47:42. > :47:45.time. It is vital children are at school learning and I think schools
:47:46. > :47:53.are right to punish parents for doing that. We need to deploy a more
:47:54. > :47:57.flexible approach. Let's move on to discipline, you have suggested
:47:58. > :48:02.writing lines and picking up litter. One of your supporters in the press
:48:03. > :48:07.has said you have got to be very careful of not announcing gimmicks
:48:08. > :48:12.but having proper policies, they clearly see this as a gimmick. The
:48:13. > :48:16.reaction from teachers I have spoken to is quite different. They believe
:48:17. > :48:20.the Government should support them in making sure they have a wide
:48:21. > :48:25.range of sanctions. Critically we need to make sure that the one in
:48:26. > :48:34.three teachers who say they are uncertain about the measures we
:48:35. > :48:38.deploy, but they should have a full range of measures up to and
:48:39. > :48:42.including community service and I think it is absolutely right to say
:48:43. > :48:49.to students that if they have in some way undermined discipline that
:48:50. > :48:55.they should be responsible for clearing up litter, or weeding the
:48:56. > :48:58.school playing field. People need to understand that there are
:48:59. > :49:04.consequences if they break the rules and that teachers have the power to
:49:05. > :49:10.enforce them. What about manhandling them, as it were, because that is a
:49:11. > :49:16.grey area. If the people this behaving badly and the teacher needs
:49:17. > :49:23.to get them out, what can they do? It used to be the case that teachers
:49:24. > :49:30.felt there is no touch rule, but if you need to separate two students in
:49:31. > :49:34.conflict you can use appropriate physical intervention in order to
:49:35. > :49:50.separate them, or to constrain a pupil behaving in a certain way.
:49:51. > :49:54.Some say you clearly need legislation for this. I would say we
:49:55. > :49:59.have changed the rules so that teachers get protection against the
:50:00. > :50:05.sorts of allegations, and standard allegations often, which can blight
:50:06. > :50:09.their career. Whatever the tools are that the teachers need we will give
:50:10. > :50:14.them, and I think it is appropriate that teachers know that whatever
:50:15. > :50:20.they need we will back them 100%. A lot of teachers say there are far
:50:21. > :50:26.too many tests, and now you are proposing a new hurdle when they are
:50:27. > :50:30.four, that seems ridiculous. I don't think it is ridiculous to ask how
:50:31. > :50:40.well children are doing at the end of primary school. What kind of test
:50:41. > :50:46.can you give a four-year-old? At the moment there are variety of checks
:50:47. > :50:51.that you can do, and anybody can be given a series of tests to see the
:50:52. > :51:01.level of cognitive development they are at. Durham University produces a
:51:02. > :51:11.set of tests widely used. Will they be stressful? No, they will be used
:51:12. > :51:17.so that teaching can be tailored to students. It has been given a wide
:51:18. > :51:23.welcome so far, and it will enable us to see those schools that have
:51:24. > :51:27.difficult intakes that at the end of the primary phase don't appear to be
:51:28. > :51:31.doing well on headline figures but they have made tremendous progress.
:51:32. > :51:35.We need to make sure that the schools that are helping the most
:51:36. > :51:41.disadvantaged pupils are rewarded most generously for the work they do
:51:42. > :51:46.in order to advance social justice. Thank you, now the news headlines.
:51:47. > :51:50.The Education Secretary has denied that his decision to look for a
:51:51. > :51:54.different person to chair the schools inspectorate Ofsted was
:51:55. > :51:59.politically motivated. The current holder of the post, Sally Morgan,
:52:00. > :52:06.has complained Downing Street is seeking to appoint more Conservative
:52:07. > :52:10.supporters to public bodies. He insisted her successor would be
:52:11. > :52:14.chosen on merit. Michael Gove was speaking as he issued new guidelines
:52:15. > :52:19.to schools encouraging them to use old-fashioned punishments such as
:52:20. > :52:23.writing lines. Labour 's deputy leader has defended proposed reforms
:52:24. > :52:28.of the party's relationship with trade unions. Plans have been
:52:29. > :52:33.announced to invite individual trade unionists to become associate
:52:34. > :52:36.members of the party in return for a vote in future leadership elections.
:52:37. > :52:41.Harriet Harman said it was phobic to complain this would give the trade
:52:42. > :52:46.union movement more influence over Labour. They will only be in the
:52:47. > :52:50.election for the leadership if they have signed up to the Labour Party
:52:51. > :52:53.and we then ballot them because they have paid to the Labour Party and
:52:54. > :53:01.they say they support the Labour Party. They have two distinctively
:53:02. > :53:11.turned to us and say we want to be part of the party. That is all from
:53:12. > :53:17.me for now. The next news is on BBC One at one o'clock. At ten o'clock
:53:18. > :53:25.we will be debating whether Britain should be giving refuge to Syrian
:53:26. > :53:30.Christians. Lastly, women's modesty. See you at ten o'clock on BBC One.
:53:31. > :53:34.Michael Gove is still here and joined by Harriet Harman. What did
:53:35. > :53:45.you make of Michael's defence of Sally Morgan? Leaving aside
:53:46. > :53:57.political appointments to these jobs, there is a common illuminator.
:53:58. > :54:07.-- denominator. My concern is that there is a cull of women and they
:54:08. > :54:12.are all being replaced by men. We don't have enough women in senior
:54:13. > :54:19.positions. What is the problem in your party with women? We don't have
:54:20. > :54:27.a problem with women in our party, we made one of Prime Minister and
:54:28. > :54:32.she did a fantastic job. Many of the people who I have had the pleasure
:54:33. > :54:39.of appointing to posts have been distinguished women in public life.
:54:40. > :54:45.So there is no problem? There is a broader problem of attracting women
:54:46. > :54:50.into positions. It is not a problem of attracting them, it is a problem
:54:51. > :54:54.of appointing them and then not firing them and replacing them with
:54:55. > :54:57.men. It would be better if we recognise our public appointments
:54:58. > :55:05.would be better if there was a balanced team of men and women. I
:55:06. > :55:10.was the person who appointed Sally. But somebody now has made you get
:55:11. > :55:17.rid of her and replaced her with a man. We don't know if it will be a
:55:18. > :55:30.man a woman who replaces her. We don't believe in tokenism, we
:55:31. > :55:34.believe in meritocracy. Do you think the Labour Party proposals will make
:55:35. > :55:42.it easier for women to get into the top of the Labour Party, given that
:55:43. > :55:45.many trade union bosses are men? Actually the majority of trade
:55:46. > :55:50.unionists are women so the extent to which it puts it in the hands of
:55:51. > :55:55.trade union members the right to vote, well actually there is strong
:55:56. > :56:03.concern in the Labour Party at all levels to really redress the
:56:04. > :56:11.imbalance in British politics. That is why Unite is led by Len
:56:12. > :56:16.McCluskey. The thing is, you cannot have your cake and eat it. This is
:56:17. > :56:23.enormously enjoyable but I'm afraid we have run out of time. Next week
:56:24. > :56:32.we will be talking to various people. Labour's rising star, Rachel
:56:33. > :56:36.Reeves. There is a woman! And Dame Angela Lansbury will be telling me
:56:37. > :56:42.about her return to the London stage at the golden age of 88.
:56:43. > :56:45.Now, it's hard to believe that three decades have gone by since Lloyd
:56:46. > :56:56.Cole and the Commotions released their first album. It was an unusual
:56:57. > :56:59.hit for the early '80s - cool tunes with sharp song writing that
:57:00. > :57:02.referenced the likes of Norman Mailer, Leonard Cohen and Simone de
:57:03. > :57:06.Beauvoir. In recent years, Lloyd Cole himself has been based in the
:57:07. > :57:09.USA but is back here with a new album. We leave you now with a
:57:10. > :57:26.number from that album. This is Opposites Day. Good morning.
:57:27. > :57:42.# Who was it said Opposites Attract? It wasn't me.
:57:43. > :57:50.# I want you more than I can more than I can say.
:57:51. > :57:54.# if I could choose any other day, any other day, you should know
:57:55. > :58:02.better than believe a single word I say.
:58:03. > :58:12.# the next line is the truth, the last line was a lie. I know you look
:58:13. > :58:17.a lot like me. # we are really a sight to see. I
:58:18. > :58:28.can't stop pushing you away, pushing your way.
:58:29. > :58:35.# Break up on Opposite's Day. You know we are the same I know we are
:58:36. > :58:41.the same. # fall in love with me, fall in love
:58:42. > :59:08.with you, fall in love with me, fall in love with you.