:00:33. > :00:38.Good morning. Political quote of the week; "We are on the brink of a
:00:39. > :00:44.disaster and this is the government of political suiciders. Welcome to
:00:45. > :00:48.Hell." Doesn't sound like David Cameron. George Osborne? No, of
:00:49. > :00:52.course, it is the interim Prime Minister of the Ukraine and sadly,
:00:53. > :00:55.this morning, with Russian troops in the Crimea it doesn't sound like
:00:56. > :00:59.exaggeration. The clash of old empires. You'd hope
:01:00. > :01:03.for a historian, therefore, to review the papers. Bang on cue,
:01:04. > :01:08.welcome Sir Max Hastings, author of books on the First, and many other
:01:09. > :01:12.wars. And, so we can keep close to our political news as well, Labour's
:01:13. > :01:17.former Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith. We'll hear the latest reports from
:01:18. > :01:21.Ukraine, of course. But in the background to this situation is the
:01:22. > :01:24.desire of many Ukrainians to join the EU, seeing it as the modern,
:01:25. > :01:27.democratic way forward for their country. That's not exactly, I
:01:28. > :01:39.suspect, the view of Nigel Farage, leader of UKIP, who's here this
:01:40. > :01:43.morning. This is it. This is the big one for UKIP. We can achieve
:01:44. > :01:51.something remarkable in these elections. We be top those polls.
:01:52. > :01:54.Can the Kippers win the European elections here in May? We'll be
:01:55. > :01:57.discussing that and treating UKIP as a serious party, whose numbers
:01:58. > :01:59.therefore have to add up. UKIP have been deriding the
:02:00. > :02:02.Conservatives this week over Europe and the immigration figures. Worried
:02:03. > :02:05.Tories are demanding the return of Boris Johnson to frontline politics,
:02:06. > :02:09.perhaps as party Chairman. What does current chairman Grant Shapps - also
:02:10. > :02:13.tipped as a future leader - think of all that?
:02:14. > :02:18.And we've got another leader who's certainly been making waves this
:02:19. > :02:21.week: a prince, no less, a prince of the Catholic Church and recently
:02:22. > :02:24.appointed Cardinal, Vincent Nichols. He attacked the government recently
:02:25. > :02:28.over its welfare policies and was rebuked as naive and plain wrong by
:02:29. > :02:32.ministers. A chastened cardinal, or a defiant one?
:02:33. > :02:34.Then, back to the First World War, and that very fine actor, Tim
:02:35. > :02:42.Pigott-Smith reflects on a new drama, charting the 37 days leading
:02:43. > :02:54.up to the conflict. And finally some great music from
:02:55. > :02:57.the Kaiser Chiefs. An apt name, but entirely coincidental - we're not
:02:58. > :03:00.that well organised. First, straight to the news with
:03:01. > :03:04.Sian Lloyd. Good morning. NATO ambassadors have
:03:05. > :03:06.been summoned for emergency talks to discuss the escalating crisis in
:03:07. > :03:11.Ukraine, where the country's military is on full combat alert.
:03:12. > :03:15.Last night, the United States warned Russia that its forces must stand
:03:16. > :03:19.down, after politicians in Moscow approved the use of its troops in
:03:20. > :03:22.Ukraine. The Foreign Secretary William Hague will travel to Kiev
:03:23. > :03:26.today, saying he's deeply concerned about the escalating tension. Simon
:03:27. > :03:36.Clemison reports. Thousands of miles away from Ukraine
:03:37. > :03:42.but just as tense, the phone conversation in which Barack Obama
:03:43. > :03:45.urges Russia to send its military forces back to base. In response,
:03:46. > :03:52.President Putin makes it clear he has no intention of retreating. The
:03:53. > :03:58.UN Security Council has met are. Its powers are limited because Russia's
:03:59. > :04:01.a member and can veto any action. The Secretary-General has been on
:04:02. > :04:07.the phone to Mr Putin to air his grave concerns. As it approved the
:04:08. > :04:11.use of its troops in Ukraine, Russian armour was already on the
:04:12. > :04:15.ground in the Crimean peninsula. Ukraine said it was an act of
:04:16. > :04:22.aggression and put its own armed forces on full alert. Today William
:04:23. > :04:27.Hague is travel to Kiev. We'll use every possible diplomatic channel to
:04:28. > :04:31.make clear our concern and to see clarification from Russia of its
:04:32. > :04:36.intentions and to ask for a de-escalation by all concerned.
:04:37. > :04:43.Ukraine pulled back from the brink of a war to be left the new crisis.
:04:44. > :04:47.The next move by any one party will be critical.
:04:48. > :04:50.Authorities in China have blamed a separatist movement for a knife
:04:51. > :04:55.attack at a train station which left 29 people dead and 130 wounded. The
:04:56. > :05:00.ten attackers rushed at commuters at Kunming station in the south-west of
:05:01. > :05:03.the country yesterday evening. Here, the former Northern Ireland
:05:04. > :05:06.Secretary Peter Hain has said that pursuing British soldiers involved
:05:07. > :05:11.in what became known as Bloody Sunday is a waste of police time.
:05:12. > :05:17.13 civilians were killed in Londonderry in 1972, while the 14th
:05:18. > :05:21.victim died five months later. Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, Mr
:05:22. > :05:26.Hain argues the focus now should be on attacks from dissident IRA
:05:27. > :05:29.groups. His intervention comes days after it emerged that British
:05:30. > :05:36.Governments had written to more than 180 Republican paramilitary suspects
:05:37. > :05:39.to say they would not be prosecuted. The gambling industry has been
:05:40. > :05:43.criticised by the Government for not doing enough to protect people from
:05:44. > :05:49.losing money on high stakes betting machines in bookmakers. The Culture
:05:50. > :05:52.Secretary, Maria Miller, says she wants to introduce a compulsory code
:05:53. > :05:59.of conduct which forces players to set time and spending limits before
:06:00. > :06:03.they start playing. The Association of British Bookmakers has welcomed
:06:04. > :06:09.the move but insists only a minority become addicted.
:06:10. > :06:11.That's all from me, for now. I'll be back with the headlines just before
:06:12. > :06:16.10.00am. Back to you, Andrew. Thank you Sian. So, Ukraine's armed
:06:17. > :06:18.forces are on full combat alert, officials there say Russian warships
:06:19. > :06:21.have been spotted off the Crimean coast and thousands of Russian
:06:22. > :06:24.troops are now on the ground. I'm joined now from Sevastopol in
:06:25. > :06:34.Crimea by our correspondent, Christian Fraser. Your colleague
:06:35. > :06:39.John Simpson tried to get in and was stopped, foolishly not wear a burka.
:06:40. > :06:46.He's seen troops digging trenches on the borders? Russian troops? Yes, a
:06:47. > :06:51.very determined effort by John to get into Crimea. The fact he's not
:06:52. > :06:56.here tells you how much control the Russians have over the land and sky
:06:57. > :07:04.entrances. The airport has reopened today. A flight has landed from
:07:05. > :07:08.Moscow. At the northern-most tip of the peninsula, the Russians are
:07:09. > :07:13.digging in, quite literally, trenches on either side of the road
:07:14. > :07:18.coming into Crimea. Quite hostile as well. A dozen or so Russian troops
:07:19. > :07:26.with machine-guns pointing towards Ukraine. I heard he has been able to
:07:27. > :07:33.get a train across the border. We may seem him here later in the day.
:07:34. > :07:37.It underlies the tension we are he we are feeling here. The Russian
:07:38. > :07:43.troops are enKirkling the key assets in the peninsula waiting to see what
:07:44. > :07:47.the new interim Government in the Crimea will do.
:07:48. > :07:53.Any sign of the Ukrainian forces? We have seen Russians but not much of
:07:54. > :07:57.the Ukrainians so far? It has been calm at the airport but we are
:07:58. > :08:02.getting more disturbing reports this morning. We've heard of a
:08:03. > :08:07.confrontation in a town to the south of us in the peninsula, a radar
:08:08. > :08:13.installation base where Ukrainian forces handed over machine-guns and
:08:14. > :08:18.pistols to Russian forces. There's another place around the corner from
:08:19. > :08:23.there. It is a holiday resort on the south-easterly most tip. The sort of
:08:24. > :08:29.place where wealthy Russians would go for their summer holidays. Down
:08:30. > :08:34.there is a rook Arabian marine unit who've refused to hand over their
:08:35. > :08:39.weapons. We understand they've been handed an ultimatum to hand over
:08:40. > :08:44.those weapons and to bow to the new leadership in Crimea, something the
:08:45. > :08:50.Ukrainian soldiers have refused to do. We'll watch it. Nothing has and
:08:51. > :08:55.as yet but it is a precursor to potentially what could happen here.
:08:56. > :08:58.A mange concern to the NATO ambassadors meeting in Brussels
:08:59. > :09:03.today. Now to the papers. And Ukraine
:09:04. > :09:08.dominates as you'd expect all the serious papers. Sunday Times, Putin
:09:09. > :09:16.pushes Ukraine to the bring of war. A story about Sol Campbell. He could
:09:17. > :09:28.have been captain of the England team had he not been black. The
:09:29. > :09:31.Observer, Ukraine PM warns of war. Sunday Telegraph, Ukraine tells
:09:32. > :09:36.Putin, this could be war. Immigration, we'll talk about that
:09:37. > :09:41.later on. Mail on Sunday, rage of Boris at Osborne the liar. This is
:09:42. > :09:45.about whether Boris will return to frontline politics before the
:09:46. > :09:50.election or not. We may talk about that later on with Grant Shapps.
:09:51. > :09:55.Welcome to Max Hastings and Jacqui Smith. We'll start with the Ukraine,
:09:56. > :10:02.Max, a big spread there in the Sunday Times. Putin send in forces
:10:03. > :10:06.to launch a new empire The tragedy of modern Russia is it only has
:10:07. > :10:12.three exports which are bankable. Oil, gas and fear. Putin's only
:10:13. > :10:18.language is the language of force. Most of the comment in the papers,
:10:19. > :10:22.very sensible, the West will not intervene militarily. We should not
:10:23. > :10:28.talk about 1914 come again. In the end, if, as seems likely, Putin is
:10:29. > :10:36.determined that Russia will Rhian necks the Crimea, it seems likely he
:10:37. > :10:45.-- Rhian ex-the Crimea, It might end up with the Russia taking the Crimea
:10:46. > :10:50.back? I think the comments are extremely sensible. Everybody
:10:51. > :10:57.recognises, one has to, it is so depressing seeing Russia behaving in
:10:58. > :11:04.the old style. Putin says Stalin is one of the greatest Russians of all
:11:05. > :11:09.time. It is Putin playing the Tsar. Jackie, you've chosen the Sun's
:11:10. > :11:14.coverage? This is one of those stories given the geopolitical
:11:15. > :11:20.history that makes it difficult for red tops to cover. But the Sun's
:11:21. > :11:26.done quite a good job. It asks quay questions. How will western powers
:11:27. > :11:32.react? As Max rightly says, it is quite difficult to think about what
:11:33. > :11:39.the appropriate reaction is given the audacity and approach of Putin.
:11:40. > :11:44.What is the appropriate reaction? The answer to The Sun's question is
:11:45. > :11:53.Barack Obama warned, there will be costs. But that's inadequate. It is
:11:54. > :11:57.a long way off. Some of the best coverage of the Ukraine is the
:11:58. > :12:04.Independent on Sunday. I'm rather impressed. A good piece by the
:12:05. > :12:11.former rashing ton ambassador rod I can Braithwaite. No wonder Putin
:12:12. > :12:16.says Crimea is Russian. The issues are complex. The Russians took a
:12:17. > :12:20.million casualties in the Crimea and more in the Second World War
:12:21. > :12:25.fighting first of all to hold it against the Germans and then to push
:12:26. > :12:33.them out again. Crimea is huge in Russian folklore. It was handed over
:12:34. > :12:39.by Kristov in 1954. We have to we can the rest EU history. And the
:12:40. > :12:44.fact this whole business of Russian minorities has been at the root of
:12:45. > :12:50.an awful lot of European conflicts for the last,000 and years. Not only
:12:51. > :12:56.in the Crimea is the majority Russian speaking but also in the
:12:57. > :12:59.Ukraine. Is Putin for the eastern Ukrainian provinces as well as
:13:00. > :13:06.Crimea? It goes back to the break-up of the Austrian Hungarian empire. It
:13:07. > :13:13.is this business of minorities. Where are the rightful boundaries of
:13:14. > :13:19.the state. We think we know ours but the Scots are raising issues about
:13:20. > :13:23.that. This question of whose rights deserve to be considered? What
:13:24. > :13:28.everybody and Roderick recognises in this piece, before we rush to
:13:29. > :13:33.judgment, one has to consider ethnic Russians in the Crimea and the
:13:34. > :13:38.eastern Ukraine have rights too. Putin has totally wrong footed
:13:39. > :13:44.himself by sending in troops. Last night, in the UN security County
:13:45. > :13:49.Council, the Russian representative justified this action on the basis
:13:50. > :13:54.they were protects Russian people within the you can rape. So when
:13:55. > :13:58.you're beginning to see difficulties in some of the other Russian
:13:59. > :14:04.speaking parts of eastern Ukraine, that potentially can can be used as
:14:05. > :14:10.a justification. One thing we know from modern history, it is simply
:14:11. > :14:15.impossible to absolutely do everything to satisfy the claims and
:14:16. > :14:19.rights of every minority. It is something everybody will argue about
:14:20. > :14:26.till the end of time. Ask the Catholics in Ireland. Ask the Scots
:14:27. > :14:30.in the UK. It goes on and on. It is a very difficult ask. The only
:14:31. > :14:33.thing, again, the papers commentary is sensible, you can't rush to
:14:34. > :14:38.judgment about this. You have to think very hard. Let's move on to
:14:39. > :14:43.another story. It has been a big week for the Labour Party, change in
:14:44. > :14:47.the rule book. It is now ?3 to join the Labour Party as a supporter?
:14:48. > :14:52.This was a significant result for Ed Miliband yesterday in the special
:14:53. > :14:55.conference. The Opener is interesting and some other
:14:56. > :15:02.newspapers. Taking us back in some ways to a special conference of 1981
:15:03. > :15:10.when David Owen and the rest of gang of four having argued formed the
:15:11. > :15:17.SDP. David Owen is back support supporting Labour. Good thing? I'm
:15:18. > :15:26.very, very happy if David Owen wants to donate more than ?2,500,000 to
:15:27. > :15:35.help back Labour. His reasons are one -- 7,000. He believes only
:15:36. > :15:39.Labour can reverse the NHS legislation and save it without
:15:40. > :15:43.major reorganisation. So, he's not going to rejoin Labour. He'll
:15:44. > :15:47.continue to sit as a cross-bench peer. For the blood pressure of
:15:48. > :15:52.Labour Party members, that's probably a good thing. When you have
:15:53. > :16:04.a reform supported by David Owen and Len McCluskey that's a big tent and
:16:05. > :16:10.big reform. Interesting story here, RBS. Most of my friends in the City
:16:11. > :16:12.believe that the roots of all the terrible things that have happened
:16:13. > :16:17.to customers and the appalling racket started with free banking.
:16:18. > :16:21.Once the banks all had to go along with free banking, that was what
:16:22. > :16:27.drove them to these unbelievably shoddy and shaky schemes. They have
:16:28. > :16:31.ended up having to pay billions in fines and they have skinned the
:16:32. > :16:35.customer is rotten. Maybe if we did have to pay for our banking, we
:16:36. > :16:40.could see honestly what things cost instead of being skinned by these
:16:41. > :16:46.banks. Absolutely. Another huge story is the paedophile story inside
:16:47. > :16:50.the Labour Party. Harriet Harman and Patricia Hewitt and Jack Dromey in
:16:51. > :16:54.the firing line. That carries on today. Increasingly it is becoming
:16:55. > :16:58.clear that all of those that happened in the 1970s demonstrates
:16:59. > :17:03.to us that the 1970s was another time and they did things very
:17:04. > :17:07.differently then. In actual fact, another element of this story
:17:08. > :17:15.covered in the newspapers as well suggests that the Home Office was
:17:16. > :17:18.providing funding to the Paedophile Information Exchange. I think the
:17:19. > :17:27.time has come and it came some time ago to say that that was a different
:17:28. > :17:31.time. Patricia Hewitt had responsibility for the liberties
:17:32. > :17:36.counsel at the time and has said that she regrets how much she was
:17:37. > :17:40.taken in. Harriet Harman has not apologised. G has said she regrets
:17:41. > :17:49.the link. But he also says if she did not do something wrong, then why
:17:50. > :17:52.apologise? -- she also says. I would suggest that if Harriet Harman had
:17:53. > :17:58.come clean at the beginning, she would not have ended up with mud on
:17:59. > :18:02.her face. I strongly disagree. If she had apologised, it would have
:18:03. > :18:07.been picked over. Yes, you apologised for that but not this.
:18:08. > :18:12.She did not say sorry for something most of us would say sorry for if we
:18:13. > :18:17.had made that mistake. I think regret has been expressed rightly by
:18:18. > :18:26.those who had responsibility. Moving on. The next Tory is about
:18:27. > :18:36.immigration. Yes, Liam Fox wading in. -- the next story. Saying that
:18:37. > :18:40.David Cameron has ditched the statistical nonsense, and one good
:18:41. > :18:45.reason for that is that they will wholly missed the crude cap on
:18:46. > :18:49.immigration. As former Home Secretary you know that it is
:18:50. > :18:55.impossible to say how many can come in under EU rules. And actually I am
:18:56. > :18:59.sympathetic with the idea that Liam Fox suggests, which would be to
:19:00. > :19:04.think about the impact of immigration. And the difference
:19:05. > :19:08.between me and Liam Fox and Nigel Farage is that I would like the
:19:09. > :19:11.evidence of the impacts of immigration, rather than basing
:19:12. > :19:19.policy on anecdotes about how many foreign voices you may or may not
:19:20. > :19:24.hear on a train trip, as Nigel has done this week. There are impacts of
:19:25. > :19:27.immigration, good and bad. I think it is a sensible policy as Ed
:19:28. > :19:32.Miliband has suggested to think about how we address that. Those of
:19:33. > :19:38.us of a certain age have been taking statins for a long time. You and I
:19:39. > :19:42.agreed before the show that the Sunday express has a splash and I am
:19:43. > :19:46.not normally a keen reader of this paper. Millions face terrible
:19:47. > :19:50.side-effects as the drug is planned for one in four. I have been taking
:19:51. > :19:53.statins for about seven years and nobody told me that there are side
:19:54. > :20:02.effects when they first prescribed them and it is a serious issue. Mean
:20:03. > :20:11.either but I have a local restaurant as a result. -- me neither. They can
:20:12. > :20:17.be very good for your health. And slow broadband can take 20% off your
:20:18. > :20:24.house price. This is almost the fourth utility after gas, water and
:20:25. > :20:28.electricity. We have slow broadband. Bad news if you want to sell your
:20:29. > :20:36.house. Bright move has an element on how quick broadband is. Thank you
:20:37. > :20:42.very much. And the weather marches upon us with the daffodils out. It
:20:43. > :20:45.is officially spring but is it really? Cold and wet this morning.
:20:46. > :20:49.How long can the misery go on? Let's find out.
:20:50. > :20:54.How long can the misery go on? Hello. We have got signs of milder
:20:55. > :20:58.weather spreading in across southern parts of Britain later in the week.
:20:59. > :21:03.Before we reach that point, some unsettled days to content with.
:21:04. > :21:11.Yesterday was glorious and to date a different picture with cloudy skies
:21:12. > :21:15.and turning windier. -- today. This weather front pushes East bringing
:21:16. > :21:18.wind and rain. Head of it, brightness and patchy rain before
:21:19. > :21:21.rain pushes into Northern Ireland, Wales and the South West of
:21:22. > :21:27.England, accompanied by gale force winds in South. The northern half of
:21:28. > :21:33.Scotland will be sheltered from the winds and will have a decent
:21:34. > :21:36.afternoon. Heavy rain pushing through Northern Ireland and
:21:37. > :21:41.reaching southern and western Scotland, North West England and the
:21:42. > :21:48.Midlands as well. The far eastern corner will be dry at this stage but
:21:49. > :21:51.it will be windy. Heavy bursts of rain likely in the South West. A
:21:52. > :21:58.weak area of low pressure sitting on top of us. Some showers will be
:21:59. > :22:02.heavy and slow moving with hail and thunder on Monday. High pressure is
:22:03. > :22:09.building in the continent so southern parts of Britain will seem
:22:10. > :22:13.mild weather developing. Thank you. Even by the standards of St Peters
:22:14. > :22:17.Basilica in Rome, the ceremony last weekend in which Pope Francis
:22:18. > :22:22.appointed 19 new cardinals was a glittering occasion. Among them was
:22:23. > :22:25.Vincent Nichols, the head of the Roman Catholic Church in England.
:22:26. > :22:30.His elevation means he joins the ranks of the pro-'s most senior
:22:31. > :22:35.advisers and in theory could be the first British popes in the middle
:22:36. > :22:41.ages. -- the Pope's most senior advisers. He has been making waves
:22:42. > :22:46.recently here with strong criticism of the impact of the Government's
:22:47. > :22:52.welfare reforms. Cardinal Nichols is with me now. Good morning. You have
:22:53. > :22:56.been speaking out about issues like inequality and poverty. Is this a
:22:57. > :22:59.sign of change in the church under the new Pope, speaking less about
:23:00. > :23:06.matters of personal morality and more about big social issues? Well
:23:07. > :23:10.Pope Francis with his experience of South America is very committed to
:23:11. > :23:13.saying that the unfolding of the Christian faith means having a
:23:14. > :23:18.particular eye for those who are poor. He has a very striking phrase.
:23:19. > :23:23.If you want to listen to God, you will hear the cry of the poor. My
:23:24. > :23:28.comments were simply to reflect what priests on the ground are telling me
:23:29. > :23:31.up and down the country and certainly in the City. Ministers
:23:32. > :23:35.have attacked you about what you said about the welfare state, saying
:23:36. > :23:41.they are spending more and more on the welfare state and bills are
:23:42. > :23:46.going up, so any notion that the safety net has been shredded cannot
:23:47. > :23:49.be true and that you were well meaning but naive. It would be nice
:23:50. > :23:53.if they commented on what I actually said, which was the evidence is
:23:54. > :23:58.there that people are living in destitution. It is not naive to
:23:59. > :24:02.state facts. It is accurate. What is interesting to me, since I made
:24:03. > :24:06.those remarks ten days ago, different voices have joined in and
:24:07. > :24:11.said that is right. Even before I said that, there was a committee at
:24:12. > :24:16.the House of Commons, and they made a report on the 28th of January
:24:17. > :24:19.making very similar points. I am quite glad now for example that
:24:20. > :24:23.there is an independent committee that will be looking into the
:24:24. > :24:28.incidences of poverty, chaired by the Bishop of Truro, and I think
:24:29. > :24:32.that is a very good thing. What about the comments by Iain Duncan
:24:33. > :24:35.Smith who said it is not moral and Christian for poor taxpayers to be
:24:36. > :24:43.contributing to welfare bills that can beat ?70,000 for people who are
:24:44. > :24:49.not working, and you can trap them into a cycle of deprivation. I
:24:50. > :24:53.understand the cycle of deprivation and I have seen it. No point did I
:24:54. > :25:05.comment that Government poverty in itself was wrong. I said there were
:25:06. > :25:11.clear implications of it, and we can see families in destitution, which
:25:12. > :25:17.is a disgrace in a family as rich as this. Priests from inner-city
:25:18. > :25:22.parishes around the country come to you. Yes, sometimes it is suggested
:25:23. > :25:28.people have records to food banks because it becomes a commodity they
:25:29. > :25:32.can sell on. I speak to my priests and they say when they put three
:25:33. > :25:36.days of food in front of a woman with her children and she bursts
:25:37. > :25:41.into tears because she has not eaten for three days, that is not a
:25:42. > :25:46.fantasy. That is human lives. One of the great gifts of Pope Francis is
:25:47. > :25:50.to say to us, mainly through his gestures, that we must protect the
:25:51. > :25:56.dignity of people. Even if they have a deformed face. Even if they are
:25:57. > :26:00.limited in their physical mobility. Essential human dignity is what we
:26:01. > :26:04.must uphold and protect. Do you think there are aspects of the
:26:05. > :26:10.current welfare systems that are immoral? I think the current welfare
:26:11. > :26:14.system does need reform. I don't disagree on the principle on which
:26:15. > :26:19.the Government is working but it cannot be at the cost of casting
:26:20. > :26:22.people into destitution. I don't believe that is motivational. Some
:26:23. > :26:27.of the priests right there on the ground say it comes across as
:26:28. > :26:32.punitive. The sources and reasons for that kind of poverty are complex
:26:33. > :26:37.and we have to look at them. We should get our priests together to
:26:38. > :26:41.hear the stories. I know we can have a conversation with Government
:26:42. > :26:45.officials along those lines. Last time we talked, you were an
:26:46. > :26:48.archbishop and now you are a cardinal. What is different in terms
:26:49. > :26:53.of your authority in the church at what you can do? In this country,
:26:54. > :26:58.nothing at all in terms of church life. People pay more attention to
:26:59. > :27:04.what I say, it seems, and I have more tasks and jobs to contribute to
:27:05. > :27:09.the holy see in Rome. You have some lovely red gear that you are not
:27:10. > :27:15.wearing at the moment. Yes, that is right. There is imagery that lies
:27:16. > :27:21.behind that choice of colour. It is also the colour of the cardinal
:27:22. > :27:24.bird. It has a greater range of melodies and songs than practically
:27:25. > :27:30.any other bird anywhere. I am looking forward to having that an
:27:31. > :27:35.suite of the day. It is also the colour of Liverpool and you have
:27:36. > :27:40.been on the terraces of Anfield and that is where you had your calling.
:27:41. > :27:43.It was not quite like that. It was where I wanted to resist the sense
:27:44. > :27:47.of vocation more than anywhere else. I remember being at the
:27:48. > :27:53.Anfield Road end and asking God to leave me alone. Why can't I be one
:27:54. > :28:01.of this crowd? I would be happier. But he would not go away. He would
:28:02. > :28:05.add -- I would add that I have never been really depressed since I was
:28:06. > :28:11.ordained. It is a wonderful way of life. When do you think Pope Francis
:28:12. > :28:15.will come to this country? Well, he is not a young man and he has his
:28:16. > :28:19.agenda very clear in his mind. I am not sure that being an international
:28:20. > :28:24.traveller is part of it. He is pacing himself. His next visit will
:28:25. > :28:45.be to the holy land, the Middle East, which is obviously
:28:46. > :28:48.strategically very important. I imagine he will pick his trips with
:28:49. > :28:51.great care that he is a man of steel as well as great humanity. It has
:28:52. > :28:54.been lovely talking to you. Thank you for joining us. As UKIP come of
:28:55. > :28:56.age as a permanent force in British politics? Judging by the level of
:28:57. > :28:58.interest in the spring conference, the answer seems to be yes. Their
:28:59. > :29:00.leader, Nigel Farage, describes his party as the biggest threat to the
:29:01. > :29:03.political establishment seen in modern times, but it is still a
:29:04. > :29:06.party without a single MP and under the first past the post system, is
:29:07. > :29:09.it may struggle to win seats at the next election despite opinion poll
:29:10. > :29:14.ratings in double figures. Nigel Farage joins me now. Welcome. You
:29:15. > :29:18.are likely to do well in the wrong election, the European elections.
:29:19. > :29:21.You don't really have any influence on the European Parliament but to
:29:22. > :29:27.call this country out of the EU, you need to do well in parliamentary
:29:28. > :29:32.elections. Surprised everybody by coming second in the European
:29:33. > :29:39.elections in 2009 and everybody told us we would not do it but last night
:29:40. > :29:43.we got a quarter of the vote and we got 150 people elected as county
:29:44. > :29:48.councillors. We have shown in the last six by-elections that we are
:29:49. > :29:52.making great progress. But it needs to be the national Government who
:29:53. > :29:58.pull Britain out if that is going to happen. That is right. There needs
:29:59. > :30:02.to be MPs that will pass the resolution in Parliament and in the
:30:03. > :30:08.end it will be the people. If we left it to the political elite, we
:30:09. > :30:12.would never even have the discussion. All the commentators
:30:13. > :30:17.talk about what UKIP will do and what the impact of the UKIP vote is
:30:18. > :30:23.on the Tories and Labour. We have a European election and that is what I
:30:24. > :30:26.am campaigning on. You don't really have any influence. I don't think
:30:27. > :30:34.Britain has any influence in Brussels at all. There's a new thing
:30:35. > :30:43.people have to decide if they want to be a UKIP candidate. One thing
:30:44. > :30:49.you ask is if you have any skeletons in your closet? What sort of things
:30:50. > :30:54.are you talking about? We do police checks, CRB checks. Tough
:30:55. > :31:01.interviews. Over the years, some people have put UKIP down badly.
:31:02. > :31:08.What are you trying to screen out? People who would be a huge
:31:09. > :31:14.distraction that doesn't mean I want to turn it into New Labour. I want
:31:15. > :31:21.it to be a party with debate but not to distract from the main messages,
:31:22. > :31:26.about who governs the country. Ed sing rattic but not eccentric? Fine,
:31:27. > :31:32.I'll go with that. Let's turn back to the general election. You'll
:31:33. > :31:40.resign as party leader if you don't get one seat. That's an unambitious
:31:41. > :31:45.promise? I'm fighting an election in 82 day's time. We have a chance of
:31:46. > :31:50.topping the polls in that election. These are the most important ever
:31:51. > :31:53.fought in this countriment and the leaderships of the so-called major
:31:54. > :31:58.parties will be seriously affected by that result. I'm not going to
:31:59. > :32:05.speculate about what happens in 2015. If UKIP does as well as I hope
:32:06. > :32:09.it can, first, it has to get momentum through these European
:32:10. > :32:12.elections. What about immigration? We've had immigration figures
:32:13. > :32:18.bouncing back up again. Is that an even bigger issue for you than the
:32:19. > :32:23.EU? The British public now understand we can't have our own
:32:24. > :32:28.immigration policy. It is meaningless to set set tens of
:32:29. > :32:32.thousands a year. We can't have control over who comes to Britain
:32:33. > :32:37.while we are part of the European Union. If you look at the
:32:38. > :32:42.Mediterranean, the eurozone, look at how badly they are doing, there's
:32:43. > :32:45.nothing we can do to stop hundreds of thousands of people coming to
:32:46. > :32:51.Britain. Why is this a problem? We are seeing skilled people coming
:32:52. > :32:58.from Poland, France. Germany. These are people with huge amounts of
:32:59. > :33:03.skill and energy. The truth about open door immigration is we don't
:33:04. > :33:07.choose the number or the quality. Whilst you are quite right there are
:33:08. > :33:15.many people who have come from Eastern Europe who are working dam
:33:16. > :33:23.hard. If I was Romanian I would be here. We have masses of people
:33:24. > :33:27.earning minimum wage quell if Iing for in-work benefits, changing our
:33:28. > :33:33.communities wherein many cases people are saying, is this the town
:33:34. > :33:39.I know, is this where I grew up? It is not just about money or whether
:33:40. > :33:46.the GDP... It is about nostalgia? No, about community. Who we are as a
:33:47. > :33:52.sense of where we belong. I toured England. I met many people who said
:33:53. > :33:57.we've never had a problem with immigration. But how many people can
:33:58. > :34:02.we take? What chance have our kids got of getting jobs? Whiam I,
:34:03. > :34:07.whether I'm driving in a lorry, working in a factory, whiam I
:34:08. > :34:12.finding my take-home pay is less than it was five years ago. That is
:34:13. > :34:15.economic failure? We have a distorted Labour market. A mass
:34:16. > :34:21.oversupply of unskilled, semi skilled and in some cases skilled
:34:22. > :34:26.Labour. It's driven down wages and hurt those at the bottom of the
:34:27. > :34:31.society most. In UKIP's world would there be a complete ban? Of course
:34:32. > :34:36.not. We'd operate a work per knit system. You've talked about
:34:37. > :34:41.Australia? Yes. In net terms, they have higher immigration than we have
:34:42. > :34:45.and proportionally they have under the Australian system? They are
:34:46. > :34:51.quite a big country. There's a lot of room. If you travel around
:34:52. > :34:57.London... Most of it is sand? A lot is but you can build things on sand.
:34:58. > :35:01.It happens in Dubai and elsewhere. The Australians have quality
:35:02. > :35:06.control. We need to get to a situation where we've sorted out
:35:07. > :35:11.who's here legally or illegally. That's not being discussed. To have
:35:12. > :35:18.an immigration based on quality control. Surely that makes sense.
:35:19. > :35:23.Your critics say you say one thing to one audience and another to
:35:24. > :35:30.another audience. You say you were brave enough to protect spending.
:35:31. > :35:34.Nationally, look hard at the benefits. In Wythenshawe you say
:35:35. > :35:41.not. What we have to avoid is doing what the Liberal Democrats did. Not
:35:42. > :35:45.wearing sandals but... The Liberal Democrats tended to chop and change
:35:46. > :35:50.their messages. What we were saying in the Wythenshawe by-election is we
:35:51. > :35:58.don't want to give ?55 million to the EU or ?25 million in foreign
:35:59. > :36:05.aid. We need to be careful. There's been an amount of mixed messages? I
:36:06. > :36:09.don't think it is as strong as that. People run election campaigns and in
:36:10. > :36:16.the short-term change the message slightly. We to to make sure we are
:36:17. > :36:21.consistent. Would you carry on funding the NHS? We want it to
:36:22. > :36:28.deliver the best possible outcome. That's a very political answer?
:36:29. > :36:36.There are some great bits of the NHS other bits which are failing. Labour
:36:37. > :36:40.double spent on the Health Service but didn't get double the return.
:36:41. > :36:44.Would you carry on spending? If we can get the same result spending
:36:45. > :36:51.less, that's what we would do. So the answer is no? Let's see where we
:36:52. > :36:57.can make savings given middle management's grown by over 40%.
:36:58. > :37:01.There are places here where we can make genuine savings. Would you
:37:02. > :37:09.raise taxes to spend more on welfare or health? . The lessons of tax,
:37:10. > :37:14.when you raise tax, tax number goes down. The most important tax reform
:37:15. > :37:23.we need is anybody earning minimum wage is not paying tax to
:37:24. > :37:27.incentivise people to get off. The big challenge for UKIP after the
:37:28. > :37:31.European elections is to put a manifesto together that doesn't
:37:32. > :37:36.resemble War and Peace. And has some numbers that add up and we're
:37:37. > :37:40.working on that. We'll see a properly costed? You certainly will
:37:41. > :37:47.but not until after the European elections. For the next 82 days we
:37:48. > :37:52.want to campaign on who governs the country. What the Conservatives say
:37:53. > :37:57.again and again, vote UKIP, get Labour. It seems as if Ed Miliband
:37:58. > :38:02.will change his policy a bit on referendum. Doesn't that scupper
:38:03. > :38:09.your defence? Miliband will promise a referendum. It's a tradition that
:38:10. > :38:13.everybody promise referendum and never delivers it. Only a third of
:38:14. > :38:20.our vote comes from the Conservatives. When you poll UKIP
:38:21. > :38:26.voters saying if there was no UKIP candidate who would you vote for?
:38:27. > :38:33.Most will not vote Conservatives. The Conservatives don't see Cameron
:38:34. > :38:37.as a Conservatives. Back to the First World War. The lamps or going
:38:38. > :38:41.out all over Europe. We shall not see them lit again in our time was
:38:42. > :38:46.the lament of Edward Grey, Britain's Foreign Secretary in 1914. There
:38:47. > :38:51.there's a new drama on BBC Two this week which follows the events of
:38:52. > :38:56.that fateful summer. 37 days chart the path to war to the decision in
:38:57. > :39:00.Downing Street that Germany must be stopped. A fine cast makes this
:39:01. > :39:07.three-parter a thriller and a tragedy. Tim Piggott-Smith plays the
:39:08. > :39:13.beleagured Prime Minister Herbert Asquith. First, a pressent scene
:39:14. > :39:17.about Russia. We do have a little difficulty understanding why
:39:18. > :39:21.Russia's felt it necessary to mobilise her army. It is the same
:39:22. > :39:26.thing as you did yesterday with the Royal Navy. It is not the same thing
:39:27. > :39:34.at all. But it is. This is not a mobilisation. In our admin
:39:35. > :39:40.administrative departments it is called a period prep are trito war.
:39:41. > :39:46.Are you impressed with those Edward? He's not impressed. Playing with the
:39:47. > :39:51.word cannot alter the fact quite soon you will have over one million
:39:52. > :40:01.men at arms moving towards the Austrian frontier.
:40:02. > :40:08.A period preparatory to war. This is an old fashioned drama. Wrestling
:40:09. > :40:13.with complicated questions. It originated more from the documentary
:40:14. > :40:21.department than the drama department but it's been put together with such
:40:22. > :40:31.skill and integrity that it achieves the level of drama. It's a really
:40:32. > :40:36.very informative drama. You played Asquith. At the end, had you come to
:40:37. > :40:43.any different conclusions why the First World War started? I'm not an
:40:44. > :40:48.historian. I knew quite a lot about the First World War. Most people say
:40:49. > :40:55.the arch Duke is shot and we're in the trenches. This period of 37 days
:40:56. > :40:58.during all this man overing which echoes so strangely what's going on
:40:59. > :41:05.now will come as a surprise to people. I thought about this
:41:06. > :41:10.recently, with Syria, we were looking at a situation where there
:41:11. > :41:17.was nobody who said no, this has to stop. There wasn't an international
:41:18. > :41:24.will for it then which there is now. With Syria someone did say no. What
:41:25. > :41:37.about your character, Asquith. He was a great drunk. Qquiffy counts
:41:38. > :41:43.from Asquith! He wrote five love letters during Cabinet meetings.
:41:44. > :41:48.Perhaps his eye not on the ball? He was sandwiched between the hawks and
:41:49. > :41:54.doves. The dab knit was falling apart. I don't think anybody really
:41:55. > :42:00.quite knew exact exactly what was happening. The Foreign Secretary had
:42:01. > :42:06.never even been to Germany. We think of the modern world with high levels
:42:07. > :42:10.of communication. Then it was telegrams. Thousands pouring into
:42:11. > :42:16.the Foreign Office. Millions a year. The other thing about Asquith there
:42:17. > :42:23.was no room for in our drama, you don't see me writing love letters is
:42:24. > :42:28.he was a serial groper too. This, of course, doesn't figure. You just see
:42:29. > :42:35.this trapped man gradually losing control. Towards the end, there was
:42:36. > :42:41.only two Cabinet resignations. The Cabinet dominated by Churchill on
:42:42. > :42:49.the war side and Lloyd George? In 1916, at kith -- Asquith left and
:42:50. > :42:55.Lloyd George took over. He didn't stay long. You've done a huge number
:42:56. > :43:01.of stage roles. Do you regret the lack of serious television roles for
:43:02. > :43:08.an actor like yourself? I'm lucky. I still keep going with nice stuff on
:43:09. > :43:15.telly. I do think more of this to -- stuff would be welcome. Serious
:43:16. > :43:20.drama? Intelligent drama that is informative. One of functions of
:43:21. > :43:26.drama is to teach so people learn. I think people will learn a lot from
:43:27. > :43:30.this. For me, this is the sort of thing that justifies the licence
:43:31. > :43:33.fee. I'd pay the licence fee for Radio 4 alone. When you see
:43:34. > :43:39.something like this no other company could produce it. The BBC have done
:43:40. > :43:43.it. I watched it all and came to the conclusion the First World War could
:43:44. > :43:48.not have been stopped. The Germans were determined to go into France
:43:49. > :43:51.but human mistakes, a telephone call that didn't quite work, for
:43:52. > :43:55.instance. Telegrams that were not quite clear enough hastened what
:43:56. > :44:01.happened? It was an embarrassing moment for Grey. His telephone call
:44:02. > :44:06.cut out to the German ambassadors. That send the wrong message to the
:44:07. > :44:11.Kaiser. I think you're right. The arms race had been going on for some
:44:12. > :44:18.years before the war. Lloyd George made a fuss in 1911 about something.
:44:19. > :44:24.Lloyd George didn't join the Hawks until late on. It was the invasion
:44:25. > :44:28.of Belgium when he said we can't sit back any longer. We have to go in.
:44:29. > :44:34.Tim, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
:44:35. > :44:40.37 Days starts on Thursday at 9.00 on BBC Two. Historical drama at its
:44:41. > :44:44.best. This week, we've seen a huge rise in immigration numbers Anglia
:44:45. > :44:49.meshing he will has been slapping down those who think the EU can be
:44:50. > :44:53.radically reformed. Small wonder some are calling for the grace
:44:54. > :44:59.missing link of politics himself, Boris Johnson. Are things really
:45:00. > :45:11.that bad? The Conservative Party Chairman Grant Shapps is here.
:45:12. > :45:15.Morning. Morning. Is he being summoned willingly? We all think he
:45:16. > :45:23.is a fantastic London Mayor and he is doing a fantastic job. His tone
:45:24. > :45:29.runs until 2016. So not welcome until 2016? That is up to Boris. He
:45:30. > :45:34.has done a great contribution. He is part of what we are trying to do is
:45:35. > :45:38.Government, which is that the biggest bust in 100 years is
:45:39. > :45:41.recovered from and we end up with families that are better off with
:45:42. > :45:45.less debt for our children to pay back. Boris Johnson is an important
:45:46. > :45:51.part of doing that in London and I am sure he has a fantastic job ahead
:45:52. > :46:09.of him. Would you like to see him playing a leading role in the next
:46:10. > :46:11.election? Absolutely. That guy is able to communicate incredibly well
:46:12. > :46:14.and it would be crazy for him not to be part of that message because
:46:15. > :46:16.people in this country want to know that we are on their side and
:46:17. > :46:19.dealing with long-term problems and continuing to cut the deficit while
:46:20. > :46:21.dealing with big issues like immigration. And in what capacity?
:46:22. > :46:22.Well, campaigning for a majority Conservative Government. Most people
:46:23. > :46:26.would say that the coalition Government has got on with the big
:46:27. > :46:33.job, to reduce the deficit, to save country from going bust and reduce
:46:34. > :46:40.deficit. 78 out -- seven out of ten people say they want a majority
:46:41. > :46:45.Government so that they can bring up their families in the security and
:46:46. > :46:52.knowledge that there is a brighter future. Parties that are completely
:46:53. > :46:57.behind families have been very pressed in this terrible and lengthy
:46:58. > :47:01.downturn. It has been suggested that George Osborne would like Boris to
:47:02. > :47:05.be bound in as an MP so that he is responsible for whatever happens in
:47:06. > :47:09.the election campaign. People watching your programme will be much
:47:10. > :47:13.more interested in what the Government is doing to make sure
:47:14. > :47:17.children do not have to pay off our debts from this generation. Much
:47:18. > :47:21.more than personalities doing this or that. I think Boris Johnson has
:47:22. > :47:27.got a big future in the party and I want him to be an important part of
:47:28. > :47:30.the campaign. Let's leave Boris steaming and having
:47:31. > :47:36.behind-the-scenes and turn to be policy issues. You had a terrible
:47:37. > :47:42.week in terms of figures. You are now way ahead of where you hope to
:47:43. > :47:46.be. I don't agree. Those figures masked the fact that we have
:47:47. > :47:51.immigration from outside the EU, the area we can most controlled. It is
:47:52. > :47:55.down to the lowest level since 1998, so a big improvement. We have done
:47:56. > :47:59.that by taking a series of steps to make sure that bogus colleges
:48:00. > :48:08.offering fake degrees are closed down. But numbers are going up and
:48:09. > :48:12.you promised they would go down. We are only part way through the
:48:13. > :48:17.Parliament. Any chance of hitting the targets? Yes. In Europe, the
:48:18. > :48:22.bits that we can start to contribute to, we have. We have said that you
:48:23. > :48:26.can't just come here and start claiming benefits. We are
:48:27. > :48:29.introducing new rules would mean that for the first three months, you
:48:30. > :48:33.cannot claim at all. After six months, you can stop blaming. We
:48:34. > :48:44.have tightened up access to housing and public services. I am pointing
:48:45. > :48:49.out that you made the specific pledge to bring the numbers down.
:48:50. > :48:54.That is still our goal. Let me make one thing clear. From outside the
:48:55. > :49:01.EU, we have made huge progress on this. Within the EU, no affect at
:49:02. > :49:05.all and you have no control on it. What has happened recently, the
:49:06. > :49:08.older countries in EU, Spain and Portugal, those other citizens that
:49:09. > :49:13.have been moving. To have further impact, we need reform within
:49:14. > :49:18.Europe. That is why we are offering a referendum with renegotiation.
:49:19. > :49:23.That takes us to Angela Merkel. She might go some way to looking at
:49:24. > :49:26.benefit tourism, but in terms of free movement he said she was not
:49:27. > :49:31.prepared to move at all and she is committed to a stronger, more
:49:32. > :49:35.centralised European union and not radically changed decentralised one.
:49:36. > :49:41.She is not someone who can save your bacon. That is not what I heard. She
:49:42. > :49:45.said clearly in the press conference that she did not want to be Prime
:49:46. > :49:51.Minister and where there is a will, there will be away. She said that
:49:52. > :49:55.you will be disappointed. She quoted another area where people said it
:49:56. > :49:58.would be impossible. People said it would be impossible for David
:49:59. > :50:02.Cameron to cut the overall EU budget but that is exactly what he
:50:03. > :50:05.achieved. People used to say that no British Prime Minister would be to
:50:06. > :50:10.an EU treaty and that is exactly what he has done, getting us out of
:50:11. > :50:18.the European bail-out. -- veto on EU treaty. I thought when Angela Merkel
:50:19. > :50:23.said where there is a will, there is a way, she was making it very clear
:50:24. > :50:26.that she believes in a kind of Europe that have to look outward,
:50:27. > :50:31.where we have to compete with the rest of the world. Get rid of the
:50:32. > :50:35.red tape. If we do those things, we will be successful. But this is the
:50:36. > :50:40.catch. Either way, the British people will have a say in a
:50:41. > :50:44.referendum but only if they vote Conservative. Have you got any
:50:45. > :50:50.supporters inside the EU at all for that? I think the pleasure of a
:50:51. > :50:54.referendum is something that the British Parliament provides and it
:50:55. > :50:58.can only happen if people vote Conservative. What is negotiated is
:50:59. > :51:02.then down to the process of negotiation. The only way to have
:51:03. > :51:06.that in or out referendum is to vote Conservative. Unless of course the
:51:07. > :51:11.Labour Party changes its policy and decide to have a referendum this
:51:12. > :51:14.week. Anyone who believes that the Labour Party will seriously
:51:15. > :51:17.negotiate with Europe, the party that handed away a large chunk of
:51:18. > :51:22.the British rebate for absolutely nothing in return, the party that so
:51:23. > :51:30.mismanaged our immigration system that people were able to come here
:51:31. > :51:39.we now know, including recruiting people, this is not the party for
:51:40. > :51:43.that. You have not found a serious ally for renegotiation of the
:51:44. > :51:47.fundamental treaty. I want to challenge the idea that we are not
:51:48. > :51:52.working hard. You are working hard but with no effect. We have had the
:51:53. > :51:56.lowest immigration figures from outside the EU since 1998. And we
:51:57. > :52:02.are now working inside the EU and that is why we want to renegotiate.
:52:03. > :52:15.Are you going to get numbers down dramatically before the next general
:52:16. > :52:18.election? I hope so. I hope it will be sunny for the rest of the year
:52:19. > :52:21.but I can't guarantee it. What does hope mean? We have put measures in
:52:22. > :52:23.place which should show in the figures. We have talked about
:52:24. > :52:26.preventing people coming here from the EU and claiming welfare. And
:52:27. > :52:31.they have to stop after six months. Those measures have been taken but
:52:32. > :52:36.they are yet to be seen in the figures. So we will see them coming
:52:37. > :52:42.down? I very much hope so. If you care about issues like immigration,
:52:43. > :52:46.reducing welfare, continuing the recovery so that people have
:52:47. > :52:49.security, a packet at the end of the month, and a job, and let's not
:52:50. > :52:53.forget we have more jobs in the economy than ever before and more
:52:54. > :52:57.women in work meaning security for families, and if you care about
:52:58. > :53:01.those things, the only thing to do is to vote for a majority
:53:02. > :53:05.Conservative Government. You got your message across very nicely at
:53:06. > :53:32.the end. Thank you. The news headlines: NATO ambassadors have
:53:33. > :53:34.been summoned for emergency talks to discuss the escalating crisis in
:53:35. > :53:36.Ukraine, where the country's military is on full combat alert.
:53:37. > :53:39.It comes amid reports that Russian troops are digging trenches on the
:53:40. > :53:41.border with the Crimea. Last night the United States warned Russia that
:53:42. > :53:44.its forces must stand down after politicians in Moscow approved the
:53:45. > :53:46.use of its troops in the Ukraine. William Hague will travel to Kiev to
:53:47. > :53:48.date saying he is deeply concerned about the escalating tension.
:53:49. > :53:51.The UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said the big challenge facing his
:53:52. > :53:53.party is to produce a manifesto which does not look like War and
:53:54. > :53:56.Peace. He told this programme the party would have to make sure it's
:53:57. > :53:59.figures added up when it came to policies on public spending. If NHS
:54:00. > :54:03.services could be delivered as well or better with lower spending, then
:54:04. > :54:06.savings should be made, he said. He said details of the UKIP policies
:54:07. > :54:10.would emerge after the European elections in May.
:54:11. > :54:14.The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock. But first a look at what is
:54:15. > :54:18.coming up immediately after this programme.
:54:19. > :54:24.Join us live from Peterborough at ten o'clock when we will be debating
:54:25. > :54:29.the NHS. Should it be closing local hospitals? Prenuptial agreement, do
:54:30. > :54:34.they undermine marriage? Teaching children morals. Is the Bible the
:54:35. > :54:37.best guide? See you at ten o'clock on BBC One. Grant Shapps and Nigel
:54:38. > :54:43.Farage are with me. The next election, UKIP Win two or
:54:44. > :54:48.three seats and things are evenly balanced. Any chance of the two of
:54:49. > :55:16.you working together in Government? I have been clear that we want a
:55:17. > :55:19.majority Government because UKIP change that Nigel will no doubt talk
:55:20. > :55:21.about. The only change he is likely to deliver is Miliband being closer
:55:22. > :55:24.to Downing Street. RU brothers under the skin? Can you work together?
:55:25. > :55:26.UKIP is not a splinter of the Conservative Party. The vast
:55:27. > :55:28.majority of our members have never been members of the Conservative
:55:29. > :55:30.Party and have never voted Conservative. We are starting this
:55:31. > :55:33.debate from the wrong position. Really you are asking if we would do
:55:34. > :55:35.a deal with the party that would give us a referendum and quickly on
:55:36. > :55:37.our continued membership of the European Union. The answer is of
:55:38. > :55:40.course. You have said this yourself, you can't actually deliver the
:55:41. > :55:45.welfare reform, the immigration reform, or the referendum in
:55:46. > :55:48.Europe. The only thing you can do is make it slightly easier for Ed
:55:49. > :55:55.Miliband to walk into Downing Street and do exactly the opposite to those
:55:56. > :55:59.things that you are saying... The numbers suggest that is simply not
:56:00. > :56:03.true. The numbers suggest that even if in marginal seats there was not a
:56:04. > :56:10.UKIP candidate, you are still going to lose those seats. That is because
:56:11. > :56:15.40% of your votes have gone since the last election. Can I jump in?
:56:16. > :56:19.Nigel said he would work with you under the circumstances so could you
:56:20. > :56:23.work with him? I cannot be clear on this. We are going all out for a
:56:24. > :56:29.majority Conservative Government to help hard-working families. UKIP
:56:30. > :56:33.cannot deliver that. You cannot deliver immigration controls. That
:56:34. > :56:39.is nearly at four this morning. They will carry on talking, I am sure.
:56:40. > :56:42.Now the mutations. Kaiser Bill was not available but we have the Kaiser
:56:43. > :56:48.Chiefs instead. -- now the musicians. Their albums have sold
:56:49. > :56:53.millions of copies and Ricky Wilson is now one of the judges on The
:56:54. > :56:59.Voice. Then you album Education, Education, Education And War will be
:57:00. > :57:04.released later this month. -- their new album. Thank you for all my
:57:05. > :57:09.guests this week. Next week I will be talking to Hillary Mantell,
:57:10. > :57:10.author of Wolf Hall. We leave you with the Kaiser Chiefs and their new
:57:11. > :57:22.single Coming Home. # Do you wish you hadn't stayed all
:57:23. > :57:25.night? # Do you wish and you hadn't got so
:57:26. > :57:30.high? # Do you wish you hadn't come?
:57:31. > :57:33.# Oh, no. Got to go. # Do you wish it wasn't half past
:57:34. > :57:35.gone? # Do you wish you didn't last that
:57:36. > :57:38.long? # Do you wish you hadn't come?
:57:39. > :57:42.# Oh, no. Got to go. # Got to run.
:57:43. > :57:49.# May I remind you? # May I remind you that you got
:57:50. > :57:54.nowhere to go? # Some stand beside you.
:57:55. > :58:03.# Stand beside you till you find out where to go.
:58:04. > :58:12.# We're going home. # We're going home.
:58:13. > :58:23.# Light a fire. # We're coming home.
:58:24. > :58:33.# We'll write it down. # We'll write it all down.
:58:34. > :58:39.# It all comes flooding back to me. # The forgotten melody of a dream.
:58:40. > :58:50.# It all comes flooding back to me. # The forgotten melody.
:58:51. > :58:52.# We're coming home. # We're coming home.
:58:53. > :59:03.# Light a fire. # We're coming home.
:59:04. > :59:09.# We'll write it down. # We'll write it all down.
:59:10. > :59:11.# We're coming home. # We're coming home.
:59:12. > :59:22.# Light a fire. # We're coming home.
:59:23. > :59:30.# We'll write it down. # We'll write it all down.