:00:33. > :00:39.Hello, good morning and welcome. That's not normally how I start this
:00:40. > :00:44.show. But that was the five-word signature of my great predecessor,
:00:45. > :00:47.Sir David Frost. He gets his memorial service at Westminster
:00:48. > :00:53.Abbey - plus a plaque, no less - this coming week. And joining us for
:00:54. > :00:57.our review of the Sunday newspapers, we have one of Sir David's sons with
:00:58. > :01:01.us - Wilfred Frost. Also here, just back from Ukraine, is the BBC's
:01:02. > :01:02.Europe editor, Gavin Hewitt. And the broadcaster and Labour peer Joan
:01:03. > :01:10.Bakewell. The standoff in Ukraine continues -
:01:11. > :01:14.well, there are many worse things than a standoff - while Crimea
:01:15. > :01:17.continues to simmer. Private Eye's cover last week announced "Winter
:01:18. > :01:21.Paramilitary Games Begin", with a picture of President Putin saying,
:01:22. > :01:25."I think Russia is going to win the shooting." Well, many people think
:01:26. > :01:30.Russia IS going to win the shooting. Are they wrong? The Foreign
:01:31. > :01:33.Secretary, William Hague, who has been in Kiev talking to Ukrainian
:01:34. > :01:38.leaders and in Brussels for the EU talks, joins us live in the studio.
:01:39. > :01:42.One of the major factors that hampers the West's response to
:01:43. > :01:47.Russia is of course energy. Increasingly, Europe needs their
:01:48. > :01:52.gas. The Lib Dem Energy Secretary, Ed Davey, will be here later. Will a
:01:53. > :01:55.Russian freeze have an impact on prices here? And after this
:01:56. > :01:58.weekend's Lib Dem Spring Conference, we'll also be talking about Cabinet
:01:59. > :02:02.tensions over climate change and immigration. David Cameron
:02:03. > :02:05.distracted himself from those tensions by going to the theatre
:02:06. > :02:08.last week, to see the stage adaptations of Hilary Mantel's books
:02:09. > :02:14.about power struggles in Tudor England. I've been talking to the
:02:15. > :02:28.author, and the actor who plays her Thomas Cromwell. Plus, we have
:02:29. > :02:33.music. Paloma Faith will be here later, live in the studio. It's long
:02:34. > :02:43.been a principle of this programme to be resolutely uncool. But Paloma
:02:44. > :02:49.Faith? We are in danger of breaking our own principles! First, the news
:02:50. > :02:51.with Naga Munchetty. Good morning. Search teams are still trying to
:02:52. > :02:54.establish what happened to a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane
:02:55. > :02:57.which disappeared over the South China Sea with 239 people onboard.
:02:58. > :03:00.Radar signals show the plane may have turned back shortly before it
:03:01. > :03:03.vanished. The Boeing 777 disappeared en route to Beijing from Kuala
:03:04. > :03:07.Lumpur. It was flying south of Vietnam at the time. No wreckage has
:03:08. > :03:10.been found yet, but the Vietnamese air force says it has spotted two
:03:11. > :03:13.oil slicks. Malaysian officials say they are now investigating the
:03:14. > :03:16.identities of two passengers who were flying on stolen passports. Our
:03:17. > :03:27.South Asia correspondent John Sudworth reports.
:03:28. > :03:30.Spotter planes searching for the missing plane have found the first
:03:31. > :03:37.possible clue, this large oil slick, far out to sea. Relatives of those
:03:38. > :03:44.on board have been taken to a Beijing hotel. But few can now doubt
:03:45. > :03:50.that something terrible has happened to the plane. At a press conference
:03:51. > :03:53.in Malaysia this morning, a government minister confirmed that
:03:54. > :03:56.they are investigating reports that at least two of the passengers had
:03:57. > :04:04.boarded the plane using stolen passports. I am in touch with the
:04:05. > :04:08.international intelligence agencies. At the same time, our own
:04:09. > :04:17.intelligence has been activated, and of course, the counterterrorism
:04:18. > :04:21.units from all the relevant countries have been informed, and
:04:22. > :04:25.that is what I have been doing since yesterday. For now, this is still a
:04:26. > :04:29.search and rescue operation, with a number of navies, including the
:04:30. > :04:35.Chinese and the Americans, assisting the effort. But while the families
:04:36. > :04:39.here in Beijing wait for information, the news that there may
:04:40. > :04:45.be something suspicious about the passenger list will only add to
:04:46. > :04:49.their sense of alarm. And with more than 150 Chinese citizens on board,
:04:50. > :04:53.in the midst of its annual Parliamentary session, a time of
:04:54. > :04:54.heightened national security, the Chinese government is also watching
:04:55. > :05:02.developments carefully. The US has warned Russia that any
:05:03. > :05:05.attempt to annex the Crimean region of Ukraine would close the door to
:05:06. > :05:08.diplomacy. Shots were fired yesterday as a team of international
:05:09. > :05:10.observers was turned back from entering Crimea, which is now
:05:11. > :05:13.controlled by Russian forces. Overnight, the American President,
:05:14. > :05:14.Barack Obama, discussed the deepening crisis with other world
:05:15. > :05:21.leaders. The Co-operative Group is to give
:05:22. > :05:24.large pay rises and bonuses to its senior staff, despite the
:05:25. > :05:26.expectation that it will report the worst losses in its history later
:05:27. > :05:30.this month. The Observer newspaper has seen a document which suggests
:05:31. > :05:33.that the Group's new chief executive will receive an overall salary
:05:34. > :05:36.package worth more than ?3 million. The Co-operative say executives' pay
:05:37. > :05:46.was in line with that of comparable firms.
:05:47. > :05:50.Some terminally-ill patients are suffering unnecessarily because of
:05:51. > :05:54.poor access to pain control at home, according to a leading health
:05:55. > :05:56.charity. A report for Marie Curie Cancer Care highlights what it calls
:05:57. > :05:58."terrifying" delays for prescriptions, and carers feeling
:05:59. > :06:02."abandoned". NHS England has welcomed the report, and says it is
:06:03. > :06:10.developing a programme of action to improve care. An extra ?140 million
:06:11. > :06:13.of government money is being made available to councils in England to
:06:14. > :06:16.help them repair roads damaged by the severe winter weather. The
:06:17. > :06:21.Department for Transport says most of the money will be disturbed at it
:06:22. > :06:23.by the end of the week. The Local Government Association said councils
:06:24. > :06:26.welcomed the extra funding but claimed that it would not cover the
:06:27. > :06:30.full cost of repairs. That's all from me for now. I'll be back with
:06:31. > :06:37.the headlines just before ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew. Thank
:06:38. > :06:42.you Naga. Now to the papers. The only paper which has really been
:06:43. > :06:45.able to go on the plane tragedy is the Sunday Telegraph. It is asking
:06:46. > :06:51.the question, were terrorists responsible? The Observer has gone
:06:52. > :06:54.with the story about the Co-operative Group, which we have
:06:55. > :07:01.just been hearing about. And the Sunday Times has a headline about a
:07:02. > :07:04.secret BBC report regarding scrapping the licence fee. The BBC
:07:05. > :07:11.has said this morning that that is not the case. Joining me, as
:07:12. > :07:14.promised, Wilf Frost, Joan Bakewell and Gavin Hewitt. It must be strange
:07:15. > :07:19.for you sitting here where your father once sat. I wonder whether
:07:20. > :07:25.the newspapers dominated your childhood, at the weekend,
:07:26. > :07:29.particularly? They did indeed. He adored the papers, it was a great
:07:30. > :07:33.hobby of his to pour over them all weekend. That was a battle for us as
:07:34. > :07:38.kids, to get him away from them. He had this wonderful oak desk where he
:07:39. > :07:42.would have them all spread out. We would sneak in and hide underneath
:07:43. > :07:46.it, ready to jump out at him. I remember on one occasion, just as we
:07:47. > :07:52.were about to jump out, he received a phone call - Mr President! And we
:07:53. > :07:56.decided to sit tight for a while. Gavin, these are newspapers Sir
:07:57. > :08:02.David Frost would have enjoyed hugely. Take us through the best of
:08:03. > :08:07.it. I think there are three papers which really caught my eye on the
:08:08. > :08:12.subject of Ukraine. My favourite headline on the subject is this week
:08:13. > :08:18.headline in the Sunday Times - what would the West fight for? I think
:08:19. > :08:23.really, that is the question of the week. After all the diplomacy which
:08:24. > :08:28.was going on in Brussels and in Paris, I was actually in Kiev, and
:08:29. > :08:33.people said afterwards, is that it? That was when they heard that these
:08:34. > :08:38.negotiations were going to be frozen between the EU and Moscow. What this
:08:39. > :08:41.paper raises is the question, how much do we really think is at stake
:08:42. > :08:46.and what are we prepared to do about it? What I also like is, when they
:08:47. > :08:54.look at Germany, they point out the economic costs of all of this, in
:08:55. > :08:57.the sense that, more than 6000 German companies do business in
:08:58. > :09:03.Moscow. They are dependent on natural gas from Russia, I think 35%
:09:04. > :09:05.of their gas. All of the big German car companies now have big
:09:06. > :09:11.manufacturing plants in Russia. They do. And in the end, I think it is
:09:12. > :09:15.not just Germany. One interesting quote which I saw during the week,
:09:16. > :09:21.but which re-emerges in the Observer, in their editorial today,
:09:22. > :09:25.is, what about the City of London? They have a quote from a
:09:26. > :09:28.journalist, saying, Britain is ready to protect the holder of the City of
:09:29. > :09:32.London on dirty Russian money, and forget about the Ukraine. Now, you
:09:33. > :09:36.may not necessarily agree with that, but certainly on the streets
:09:37. > :09:41.of Kiev, there is the sense that they might be abandoned, that in the
:09:42. > :09:47.end, it might just be that Crimea has already slipped beyond getting
:09:48. > :09:50.it back. I think the most important new piece of news broke too late
:09:51. > :09:57.this morning to make the newspapers, but John Kerry has said, if it goes
:09:58. > :10:02.on like this, we will close down the diplomatic space. Now, diplomacy is
:10:03. > :10:07.what we need more of. We need more and more diplomacy, stretching as
:10:08. > :10:12.far as it need go, until there was a resolution. What we do not want is
:10:13. > :10:21.to blackmail people into taking a Chen. We want people to -- taking
:10:22. > :10:28.action. We are commemorating the start of World War I. They should
:10:29. > :10:34.have kept on talking. The Sunday Times has ten ways to punish Putin.
:10:35. > :10:39.The bottom one is, send in troops. But they say, this is not going to
:10:40. > :10:43.happen. I think the most likely effective punishment is a long-term
:10:44. > :10:49.one, rather than a short-term one, which would be to damage Russia's
:10:50. > :10:52.exports of natural gas. But that requires European politicians to be
:10:53. > :10:56.brave enough to say to their electorates that gas will run out,
:10:57. > :11:00.and will be getting more expensive, which is a hard thing to say? It is,
:11:01. > :11:05.and it is not something which can happen quickly in the short-term.
:11:06. > :11:11.But with US gas exports increasing in the years ahead, it is Russia
:11:12. > :11:15.might regret. Also, in terms of world politics, is the move of the
:11:16. > :11:21.Crimea into the Russian world of global, to the brink, significance?
:11:22. > :11:26.I think we all need to ask that. I do not know the answer. The other
:11:27. > :11:31.huge story this morning is the downing of this aircraft. Gavin, you
:11:32. > :11:36.have covered a very similar case. The 777 is one of the safest
:11:37. > :11:40.airliners in the world, however? It is. When a plane disappears, and
:11:41. > :11:45.there is no communication, usually, it is regarded as a catastrophic
:11:46. > :11:50.incident. Of course, most people will think that it was probably a
:11:51. > :11:57.bomb on board. But some years ago, I covered the fall of a plane taking
:11:58. > :12:01.off from JFK, I think it was. And later, although this was disputed,
:12:02. > :12:05.their conclusion was that it was what they called a fuel air
:12:06. > :12:10.explosion. I am sure that even though they will be looking at
:12:11. > :12:12.terrorism, there sometimes can be catastrophic events, which are
:12:13. > :12:19.extremely rare, but other than terrorism. Wilf Frost, you have
:12:20. > :12:24.chosen the Sunday Telegraph? Indeed. It has got the question, were
:12:25. > :12:29.terrorists behind the plane tragedy? Of course, we do not know yet. But
:12:30. > :12:33.what strikes me is that two men were travelling on stolen passports, one
:12:34. > :12:38.of which was reported stolen two years ago. I find it amazing that
:12:39. > :12:42.they were able to get on the plane. And of course China has its own
:12:43. > :12:48.separatist, Islamist problem. Indeed, although it is hard to know
:12:49. > :12:51.if that was anything to do with it at this stage. I suppose the
:12:52. > :12:55.overriding thought is one of deep sympathy with all of the families
:12:56. > :13:01.involved. On a similarly sober note, let's turn to a domestic story. Yes,
:13:02. > :13:05.ministers clear the path for assisted suicide to be legal. MPs
:13:06. > :13:10.are to get a free vote on a bill coming up in the autumn, following a
:13:11. > :13:14.private members' bill. And it looks as though the law is shifting, so
:13:15. > :13:18.that people will not be prosecuted, and there will be more tolerance.
:13:19. > :13:24.They will be given a free vote on a bill which will enable doctors to
:13:25. > :13:30.help terminally ill people to die. The regulations issued several years
:13:31. > :13:34.ago by Keir Starmer made it unlikely that family and close friends would
:13:35. > :13:38.be prosecuted for helping with assisted suicide, but it left the
:13:39. > :13:42.medical profession rather unsure of whether they would be prosecuted.
:13:43. > :13:47.And they need the protection so that they can help people who are dying
:13:48. > :13:50.anyway, they are being killed by a disease, but the pain becomes
:13:51. > :13:56.intolerable. You are very interested in this issue, Joan, is there any
:13:57. > :14:00.idea of how many people want to be doing this around the country, the
:14:01. > :14:05.numbers? I think about 40 cases have been referred since the Keir Starmer
:14:06. > :14:09.ruling. I think about two people might have been prosecuted.
:14:10. > :14:14.Clearly, those were not sympathetic people. As far as I know, people
:14:15. > :14:18.have stopped going to Switzerland, which is just an enormous imposition
:14:19. > :14:24.on people who have got enough problems anyway. But I think the
:14:25. > :14:27.polls which are constantly being taken are showing that public
:14:28. > :14:31.opinion is now very, very strongly in support of a change to the law
:14:32. > :14:35.which allows compression and tenderness and real medical concern
:14:36. > :14:42.to take priority over an absolute ruling. My eye was drawn to
:14:43. > :14:49.something which I am sure will come up again, as we close in on the
:14:50. > :14:54.election, and that is executive pay. It is about what the head of the
:14:55. > :14:58.Co-op Bank might be receiving, when they are letting go a significant
:14:59. > :15:05.number of people. I was looking at a comment column by Will Hutton, and
:15:06. > :15:08.he makes this charge - the evidence suggests that performance,
:15:09. > :15:13.productivity and innovation across British business are touching new
:15:14. > :15:16.lows. And I am certain a lot of people will remember the
:15:17. > :15:21.Co-operative Bank, and I think they will again wonder why it is that
:15:22. > :15:26.executives need to get paid these huge sums of money. It is a strange
:15:27. > :15:32.thing, the profits go down, the bonuses go up. It is very strange,
:15:33. > :15:36.because what they always say is, yes, we must have the top people,
:15:37. > :15:40.and the top people demand the equivalent pay of other chief
:15:41. > :15:44.executives. Why don't they lower all the standards of pay, so that they
:15:45. > :15:53.would all have comparatively the same, at a much lower and more
:15:54. > :16:14.logical level? Let's move on to the Paralympics. Jade Etherington has
:16:15. > :16:26.won a medal. It seems more dangerous and faster than any other kind of
:16:27. > :16:34.event. Yes, she and her partner go down together, very exciting. This
:16:35. > :16:40.is the week of the Lawrence story revisited and a new commitment to
:16:41. > :16:45.another inquiry because of police secrecy infiltrating the Lawrence
:16:46. > :16:49.family. Scotland Yard are still up to it here. They are in a new
:16:50. > :16:54.undercover police row, this is an attempt to stop the legal bid by the
:16:55. > :16:59.women who were seduced by undercover agents, some of them having
:17:00. > :17:05.children, and they were making a bid to prosecute. That is being fought
:17:06. > :17:11.by Scotland Yard to stop it happening. The former director of
:17:12. > :17:16.prosecutions, Lord MacDonald, accused the police of engendering a
:17:17. > :17:24.culture of deceit. Do they never learn? It is pretty grim. Gavin.
:17:25. > :17:31.Usually when I am not in Kiev and places like that, I spend a lot of
:17:32. > :17:37.time in Brussels. I was drawn to the Express this morning who have this
:17:38. > :17:42.headline, the EU could dig up your garden. They say that under new
:17:43. > :17:47.rules, authorities will have the power to come into your homes and
:17:48. > :17:54.destroyed plants including the Virginia creeper, but these invasive
:17:55. > :17:59.species they have decided needs sorting out. It is something I have
:18:00. > :18:05.so far missed in Brussels but obviously I need to look at this. We
:18:06. > :18:15.had Jose Manuel Barroso in the studio recently, he could have done
:18:16. > :18:21.some gardening. Wilfred, your next story? I was going to touch on the
:18:22. > :18:31.move from the BBC Three to the Internet. It is a great shame but I
:18:32. > :18:36.think it is a sensible move, and as Peter Preston says in the Observer,
:18:37. > :18:42.conventional television is caught on the cusp of change. Young people
:18:43. > :18:48.watch much less television live these days and this is a sensible
:18:49. > :18:55.move. What were your father's views on changing television? He moved to
:18:56. > :19:01.Al Jazeera towards the end of his career. Modern technology was not
:19:02. > :19:06.his forte, it is funny that he was a pioneer in the world of television
:19:07. > :19:11.for many years but could not turn my television set himself! On Sunday
:19:12. > :19:17.afternoon you could be sure to get a telephone call asking how to
:19:18. > :19:25.navigate his way to Sky Sports. Sounds very familiar indeed! Joan,
:19:26. > :19:31.have you got any more stories? This is a picture story and it is a
:19:32. > :19:37.photograph of someone who has won an Oscar, it is Cate Blanchett. What
:19:38. > :19:42.are they like on the morning after? She is sitting up in bed, perfectly
:19:43. > :19:50.made up, her beautiful gown lying on her bed, it is such a setup and it
:19:51. > :20:01.is so hilarious. A day in the life of a star. Where is the Oscar? By
:20:02. > :20:06.the bedside with a cup of coffee. David Frost never got an Oscar but
:20:07. > :20:11.he will be getting his great ceremony on Thursday, tell us about
:20:12. > :20:16.it. It is a wonderful honour that the Dean of Westminster has bestowed
:20:17. > :20:25.upon him, to have the service in Westminster Abbey. It is totally
:20:26. > :20:33.down to him, and he felt that Dad had been in people's living room for
:20:34. > :20:37.50 years and this was an honour that he deserved. It is very much a
:20:38. > :20:43.celebration of his life, and to have it there with 1500 people, the only
:20:44. > :20:51.shame is that he will not be there himself because he would have loved
:20:52. > :20:56.it. He would have loved it. Over to the weather now. It will be warmer
:20:57. > :21:00.than the Greek islands here this weekend. Balmy as I came in. A sunny
:21:01. > :21:06.start to spring. Will it last? Over to Nina Ridge in the weather studio.
:21:07. > :21:14.We may see 18 degrees somewhere, but not everywhere. As a rough guide,
:21:15. > :21:20.much of England and Wales seeing the best of the brightness and those
:21:21. > :21:26.temperatures. It is further north and the west sticking with more
:21:27. > :21:30.cloud and outbreaks of rain. Also the contrast because parts of west
:21:31. > :21:34.Wales have had more cloud this morning, along with west Cornwall
:21:35. > :21:41.and parts of Cumbria. Through the day, a lot of that should clear
:21:42. > :21:44.away. The focus of the rain will be in central and southern areas of
:21:45. > :21:50.Scotland and parts of Northern Ireland. Though quite breezy to the
:21:51. > :21:55.south, that breeze keeping the temperatures down. It is in the
:21:56. > :22:02.south-east where we are likely to see the high temperatures of 17,
:22:03. > :22:10.18. A cold day, but with that we could see some snow through the
:22:11. > :22:15.night tonight. More cloud further south so cool day to come for
:22:16. > :22:17.England and Wales, but in contrast, things improving further north.
:22:18. > :22:28.Sunshine in and Edinburgh. "I am going to defend the tolerant
:22:29. > :22:30.and modern Britain we love" against UKIP's "ungenerous, backward-looking
:22:31. > :22:34.politics". That's the claim being made by Nick Clegg as he closes the
:22:35. > :22:37.Liberal Democrat's spring conference this morning. So, what happens if
:22:38. > :22:40.UKIP trounces them in the forthcoming European elections? Here
:22:41. > :22:44.to talk about that, and his own brief of energy policy, is the
:22:45. > :22:49.Cabinet Minister Ed Davey. Welcome. Can we start off talking about the
:22:50. > :22:55.Russian crisis? We have less than 1% of our gas coming in from Russia, is
:22:56. > :23:03.that right? That's right, we have very secure supplies from the North
:23:04. > :23:07.Sea and from Norway, and we have a lot on ships, liquefied natural gas.
:23:08. > :23:15.People should not be worried about that. What about price? If the west
:23:16. > :23:26.to Russia says we are not going to take any more of your gas, the price
:23:27. > :23:30.will be affected, surely? Gas is bought 18 months in advance so they
:23:31. > :23:36.shouldn't be using it as an excuse to put up people's prices. We have
:23:37. > :23:42.seen, when this crisis broke, there was a spike in oil and gas prices,
:23:43. > :23:46.they have come down now, but if there was an escalation, if we saw
:23:47. > :23:52.military conflict and if it went on for months and months, there could
:23:53. > :23:55.be an impact on prices. It is one of the reasons why the Coalition
:23:56. > :24:02.government believe it is important to have a mix of energy, more
:24:03. > :24:06.diversified. People say the west cannot stand up to Russia because we
:24:07. > :24:12.need their gas because Western politicians will not turn round and
:24:13. > :24:18.look them in the eye and say, sorry, prices will have to go up because we
:24:19. > :24:24.are confronting Russia. Prices have been falling markedly in recent
:24:25. > :24:28.years because we have been investing in renewable energy. One of the
:24:29. > :24:32.things I have been doing is going to Brussels, arguing for an ambitious
:24:33. > :24:39.approach so we have more home-grown energy, so that Europe invests in
:24:40. > :24:44.renewables so we don't have to depend on them. So why was Michael
:24:45. > :24:59.Fallon talking about a new pipeline, to make us more dependent?
:25:00. > :25:03.Which is about diversity. If you have more diversity, prices go down
:25:04. > :25:07.and that is what we want for consumers. You are really still
:25:08. > :25:10.worried about prices because you have written to the energy
:25:11. > :25:15.regulator, and your letter implies that British Gas will have to be
:25:16. > :25:22.broken up, is that a fair assessment? When the Coalition came
:25:23. > :25:28.into power, we inherited the big six energy companies. From day one we
:25:29. > :25:34.have been trying to increase competition. We have I think nearly
:25:35. > :25:39.over 20 independent suppliers challenging the Labour Party's big
:25:40. > :25:44.six. We have improved switching so a lot of people are doing that, but
:25:45. > :25:48.can we do more? The evidence on domestic gas supply is that I am
:25:49. > :25:54.concerned that we are seeing too much dominance, by British Gas in
:25:55. > :25:59.particular but not just them, and I wanted to bring that evidence to the
:26:00. > :26:04.competition authorities. We have taken action and they can now take
:26:05. > :26:09.further action if they think it is required. And prices are still going
:26:10. > :26:14.up so I ask again, is it possible do you think that you will call for
:26:15. > :26:21.British Gas itself to be broken up? It is a matter for the Independent
:26:22. > :26:27.Competition Authorities. We have provided the evidence showing there
:26:28. > :26:31.could be a problem. A debate in Parliament in the wider public
:26:32. > :26:37.hadn't focused on gas, even though it is two thirds of the domestic
:26:38. > :26:44.electricity bill. Labour had not mentioned it. Enough about Labour, I
:26:45. > :26:49.am wondering about your policy. The reason I started the debate is to
:26:50. > :26:54.make sure that the competition authorities can look at it in
:26:55. > :27:04.detail. It is up to them to act, we put the evidence into the public
:27:05. > :27:07.domain. Do you think British Gas is in a competitive position? The
:27:08. > :27:13.evidence we provided show that British Gas has 40% of the market,
:27:14. > :27:20.it has some of the highest prices and highest profits in domestic gas
:27:21. > :27:28.supply. It came from a publication last November... That suggests your
:27:29. > :27:33.answer is yes? It is something the competition authorities should look
:27:34. > :27:37.at. Let's turn to the Liberal Democrats. The big theme of the
:27:38. > :27:47.conference seems to be, we are the anti-UKIP party. They are
:27:48. > :27:53.intolerant, we are tolerant, that is the main theme, is that a fair
:27:54. > :27:57.assessment? We have been pro-European for decades, long
:27:58. > :28:03.before UKIP came on the scene so we are setting out our stall. He is
:28:04. > :28:09.making the point there are people in UKIP who want to pull us out. The
:28:10. > :28:14.Conservative party is very confused on this, they are flirting with
:28:15. > :28:20.coming out, which is dangerous for Britain's place in the world, and we
:28:21. > :28:24.think Labour has been totally silent. Where is the leadership from
:28:25. > :28:31.someone who wants to be the Prime Minister? Nick is taking this to the
:28:32. > :28:36.people. If he says, this is the big argument, Nigel Farage is our big
:28:37. > :28:42.enemy, if UKIP beats you that means you have lost the argument, doesn't
:28:43. > :28:48.it? I don't think that is the case. We came fourth in the last European
:28:49. > :28:53.elections and went on to have a really good Westminster general
:28:54. > :28:57.election result. We want to use the European elections as a way of
:28:58. > :29:01.making the argument, and we hope that politicians from other parties
:29:02. > :29:06.who share our view is that it is better for jobs, for tackling
:29:07. > :29:11.climate change, for tackling crime Britain is in an Nick Clegg wants to
:29:12. > :29:17.lead that argument. And the other parties are concerned about the
:29:18. > :29:25.levels of immigration, but you want more? We want a balanced approach.
:29:26. > :29:29.In this Government we have supported some of the measures to restrict
:29:30. > :29:33.immigration and we are debating immigration at our conference, and
:29:34. > :29:39.putting forward other measures to restrict it. But you would like to
:29:40. > :29:52.see the extended families given free rights to come into this country? We
:29:53. > :29:56.have got a balanced approach. For a start, we have got these measures
:29:57. > :30:01.which would be more restrictive. But where family life is involved, where
:30:02. > :30:04.it is someone's husband or wife, I think we should be more welcoming to
:30:05. > :30:08.the families of people who are settled here. We do also have a
:30:09. > :30:13.view, Vince Cable and Nick Clegg have been clear about this, that
:30:14. > :30:18.immigrants play a very important, positive role in our society. There
:30:19. > :30:25.are 40,000 foreign-born workers in the NHS. What you have just said
:30:26. > :30:29.must mean more rather than less immigration from outside the EU.
:30:30. > :30:35.Overall, you want more immigration, not less, that is irrefutable. No,
:30:36. > :30:38.it is not. Actually, governments cannot control immigration in the
:30:39. > :30:41.way that some people say they can. You need tough measures to make sure
:30:42. > :30:47.that the people who come here are legitimately here, and they follow
:30:48. > :30:51.the rules. We also want a political dialogue which does not denigrate
:30:52. > :30:56.immigrants, because they play such a positive role. Foreign students
:30:57. > :31:00.bring ?30 billion into the UK economy. Let's not be so negative
:31:01. > :31:05.against immigrants, as some parties seem to want to be. Thank you for
:31:06. > :31:08.joining us. It is rare for the Royal Shakespeare Company to adapt the
:31:09. > :31:15.work of a living author for the stage. But then Hilary Mantel is no
:31:16. > :31:17.ordinary writer. She's won a brace of Booker Prizes, has revitalised
:31:18. > :31:21.historical fiction, and is a bestseller all over the world. The
:31:22. > :31:25.RSC's staging of her novels Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies brings
:31:26. > :31:28.to life the deadly Tudor court in which Thomas Cromwell thrived - how
:31:29. > :31:31.he rose from commoner to Chancellor, King Henry's shadowy enforcer. I
:31:32. > :31:34.caught up with Hilary Mantel in Stratford, along with Ben Miles, who
:31:35. > :31:43.plays Cromwell. He began by explaining how he prepared for this
:31:44. > :31:48.epic role. My chief source material was Hilary
:31:49. > :31:52.Mantel's books, which I read and read, and spent many weeks plotting
:31:53. > :31:59.a storyline, narrative, for Cromwell, what he does, who he
:32:00. > :32:02.meets, which I stuck on the wall of my office in the RSC rehearsal
:32:03. > :32:07.rooms, and I think it went around the room about three times, this
:32:08. > :32:12.narrative. One of his chief driving forces is just self survival,
:32:13. > :32:19.really. He has been trying to stay out of trouble, of one form and
:32:20. > :32:29.another, all his life. And he arms himself with great knowledge, great
:32:30. > :32:34.skill, great diplomacy, great charm. Henry believes God will not give him
:32:35. > :32:42.sons because he and Catherine were never truly married. So, he has just
:32:43. > :32:46.noticed, after 18 years? In the book of Leviticus, he has found the verse
:32:47. > :32:53.which forbids marrying your brother's wife. Contradictory, isn't
:32:54. > :32:57.it? The king does not like it. He says, if this is God 's word, no
:32:58. > :33:04.hopeless power... He is right, isn't he? You tell me, you are the
:33:05. > :33:09.Cardinal. He could talk to an ambassador, he could talk to a
:33:10. > :33:14.farrier, and he could know as much about each of their trades, or know
:33:15. > :33:19.how to get what he wants, or rather what his client wants, from them, at
:33:20. > :33:25.any time. He is one of those very rare people who can see the picture,
:33:26. > :33:33.going right through social boundaries, he subverts everything,
:33:34. > :33:40.he laughs when he should be serious, he turns the whole power structure
:33:41. > :33:46.upside-down. That is the conception of the man. And you play the man
:33:47. > :33:50.very beautifully. If I may say so, you do not look like Cromwell as we
:33:51. > :33:55.know him from the Holbein portrait. You have got a very open face, if I
:33:56. > :33:58.may say so, a nice smile. To what extent do you feel that you are
:33:59. > :34:04.playing a villain with a hero's face, as it were? I do not feel I am
:34:05. > :34:09.playing the villain. I do not think Cromwell regards himself as a
:34:10. > :34:13.villain, or necessarily as a hero. He kills lots of innocent people on
:34:14. > :34:20.the way, though. Yes, but he was not alone in doing that at that time.
:34:21. > :34:24.That behaviour was normal behaviour, especially in the world in which
:34:25. > :34:31.Cromwell lived. He did not stand out in that sense, greatly, I do not
:34:32. > :34:35.think. Our brilliant producer, Mike Poulton, said, right at the
:34:36. > :34:41.beginning, I am not worried about a lookalike, I just want someone who
:34:42. > :34:46.looks as if, under a bridge, on a dark night, he might knife you.
:34:47. > :34:51.Well, then does that sort of thing all of the time, so he was the
:34:52. > :34:55.obvious go to man! This is what we want, a sense of unpredictable at
:34:56. > :35:00.the end danger, someone who could turn on a sixpence. Can I ask about
:35:01. > :35:04.the language, because you have chosen relatively modern sounding
:35:05. > :35:09.language, and it is a very odd thing, because everybody is dressed
:35:10. > :35:13.up in Judah costume, in the Royal Shakespeare companies theatre, and
:35:14. > :35:16.somehow people expect a more charged, Shakespearean language? I
:35:17. > :35:19.do not think you should underestimate the resonance of
:35:20. > :35:28.simple, stripped down, direct language. I never wanted pastiche,
:35:29. > :35:34.and the books do not use pastiche. My job is to make sure that however
:35:35. > :35:46.the language is pitched, the people have Tudor thoughts. They send a
:35:47. > :35:50.butcher's boy to tip me off. Charles would not go to war over his old
:35:51. > :35:54.aunt, surely. He does not have to go to war, he could block aid us, when
:35:55. > :36:00.winter comes, we will be pleading for mercy. Tom Cromwell, Lord
:36:01. > :36:03.Chancellor of England, imagine that! I will get everything settled before
:36:04. > :36:08.anyone wakes up to what is happening. I am thrilled about doing
:36:09. > :36:14.these plays in modern language, if you like, because so many people
:36:15. > :36:18.enjoy these plays because of that, especially younger people. There are
:36:19. > :36:22.a lot of people in the audience. They seemed to congregate on that
:36:23. > :36:27.side of the stage, I do not know why. And they were laughing at the
:36:28. > :36:33.jokes. They were horrified by the sexism, Tudor sexism. When we say,
:36:34. > :36:38.think like a Tudor, what are we talking about? We are talking about
:36:39. > :36:47.attitudes to women, attitudes to death, which was everywhere, loss,
:36:48. > :36:50.grief, attitudes to God, to kingship. I know that you are
:36:51. > :36:55.working on the third book in the clergy at the moment, Hilary, but
:36:56. > :36:58.this feels to me like a great tragedy suspended, the story of
:36:59. > :37:03.Cromwell fighting his way up, the first part is about the destruction
:37:04. > :37:08.of Wolsey and all around that, and then we get onto and billing and her
:37:09. > :37:20.fall... We have another four years of Cromwell's rise and rise in the
:37:21. > :37:24.third novel, and his abrupt fall. The experience of being here,
:37:25. > :37:29.working with Ben, working with the rest of the company, has been
:37:30. > :37:32.extremely productive for my third book. Are you writing it
:37:33. > :37:37.differently, having seen the first two books on the stage? Oh, yes,
:37:38. > :37:41.yes, indeed. I think this is a unique process. Normally, with a
:37:42. > :37:48.literary adaptation, the book is closed, it is done. This is a work
:37:49. > :37:51.in progress. So, I was prone to try the patience of the company by
:37:52. > :37:56.coming in during rehearsals with a new page. Here is one I wrote this
:37:57. > :38:00.morning! We would run towards you to take it and learn it, because it was
:38:01. > :38:04.such a beautifully written piece of drama. We are in the middle of a
:38:05. > :38:09.great debate at the moment about the teaching of English history. I am
:38:10. > :38:12.wondering how you react to the criticisms of Michael Gove regarding
:38:13. > :38:17.the, ties a share of history, not so much lack adequate but other
:38:18. > :38:21.dramatisations? What you think about this as a way of teaching people via
:38:22. > :38:30.drama? The important thing is to know that there is no one version
:38:31. > :38:33.that is completely right, no single version which holds sway. Everything
:38:34. > :38:42.needs to be questioned, to be reconsidered. All sources are
:38:43. > :38:46.suspect. When somebody presents you with a historical fact, the thing
:38:47. > :38:50.you must ask is, who is telling me this, and why do they want me to
:38:51. > :38:57.believe it? Or journalistic questions, actually. Indeed. If
:38:58. > :39:00.performed with integrity, then dramatisation, fiction, is actually
:39:01. > :39:07.helpful in stimulating that spirit of inquiry. Because the novelist, if
:39:08. > :39:13.you are doing this properly, you are saying to the reader, hey, what
:39:14. > :39:18.would you do? That is the question we are asking all along about
:39:19. > :39:28.Cromwell. It is a great T-shirt logo, what would Thomas Cromwell do?
:39:29. > :39:33.After a sell-out run, both plays are transferring to London in May.
:39:34. > :39:36.Public booking for them opens tomorrow morning. Now, the situation
:39:37. > :39:39.in Ukraine remains tense. There are demonstrations planned across the
:39:40. > :39:46.country today, including a mass rally in Kiev. Last night, the
:39:47. > :39:50.American Secretary of State, John Kerry, warned that the space for
:39:51. > :39:56.diplomacy is coming to a close. I'm joined now by the Foreign Secretary,
:39:57. > :39:59.William Hague. The truth of the matter is that Russia has won,
:40:00. > :40:05.Russia has the Crimea, and that is not going to change. Well, of
:40:06. > :40:09.course, we want to see progress on this. That is why John Kerry and I
:40:10. > :40:12.met Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, in Paris on
:40:13. > :40:15.Wednesday. But I think it would be wrong to conclude that Russia has
:40:16. > :40:22.won, in some sense. I think this will turn out in time to be quite a
:40:23. > :40:25.big miss calculation. But Russia has won in the sense that they are going
:40:26. > :40:30.to keep the Crimea, at least, and there is nothing that we are going
:40:31. > :40:35.to say or do that will change that. That is clearly their intention. We
:40:36. > :40:38.want to see Russians and Ukrainians come in to negotiations with each
:40:39. > :40:42.other. We should not prejudge the outcome of that, but clearly that is
:40:43. > :40:46.what Russia is intending to do. They have brought forward the holding of
:40:47. > :40:50.a referendum for one week today in Crimea, ridiculously quickly. The
:40:51. > :40:54.world will not be able to regard that as a free or fair referendum.
:40:55. > :41:00.But they do not care, do they, Foreign Secretary? President
:41:01. > :41:04.Putin's spokesman last night literally laughed with derision when
:41:05. > :41:07.it was mentioned about further negotiations. We have no real hold
:41:08. > :41:11.over them, that is the truth, isn't it? We will see. I think they do
:41:12. > :41:16.care about the international reaction about what they have done.
:41:17. > :41:19.That reaction is very strong. The European Union has set out a
:41:20. > :41:24.graduated series of measures. With respect, it is not strong. The point
:41:25. > :41:27.I was doing to make is, the long-term consequences will be very
:41:28. > :41:32.significant for Russia. I think they will be inadvertent and unintended
:41:33. > :41:35.consequences. From everything that I saw in Kiev, when I was there on
:41:36. > :41:40.Monday, people from across the political spectrum, including the
:41:41. > :41:43.people from the East, who mostly identify with Russia, are strongly
:41:44. > :41:47.against Russian intervention in their country. It will affect
:41:48. > :41:50.attitudes towards Russia very seriously over the long-term.
:41:51. > :41:55.Secondly, I think European nations, as you have discussing with Ed
:41:56. > :41:57.Davey, will be recasting their approach to energy and their
:41:58. > :42:04.economic links with Russia over time. Those are things which over
:42:05. > :42:07.time will mean that this has been a serious miss calculation at a book
:42:08. > :42:11.so far, in concrete terms, we have just talked about things like bans
:42:12. > :42:16.on visas. What about things like kicking Russia out of the G8, is
:42:17. > :42:19.that possible? We have already suspended the preparations for the
:42:20. > :42:23.G8 summit, which is due to be held in Russia in June. We have stopped
:42:24. > :42:27.the meetings leading up to that. Clearly, one of the options, if
:42:28. > :42:32.there is no diplomatic progress, is to cancel that altogether. Indeed,
:42:33. > :42:38.the G7 would be free to meet on their own. And that could happen?
:42:39. > :42:43.These are things which would none of the measures that we can propose
:42:44. > :42:46.remove Russian forces from the Crimea. Nobody is proposing a
:42:47. > :42:51.military conflict between the West and Russia. But some of the
:42:52. > :42:56.diplomatic and other costs to rush of this are serious. And they need
:42:57. > :43:03.to be taken seriously in Moscow. Could we not simple leak cancel the
:43:04. > :43:06.gas contract is, the oil contracts which or is that too much of a
:43:07. > :43:11.disruption to western Europe? That would vary one country to another.
:43:12. > :43:15.In the case of the UK, we only by about 1% of our gas from Russia. For
:43:16. > :43:21.other countries, it is up to a third or more. They are clearly not in a
:43:22. > :43:26.position just to say, we will do without that gas. But I think over
:43:27. > :43:30.time, and Ed Davey was talking about the need for diversification, one of
:43:31. > :43:35.the consequences of Russia's action will be that this will change. It
:43:36. > :43:38.feels like you have a certain number of rather small sticks available to
:43:39. > :43:46.you. There is no question of military action of any kind, I take
:43:47. > :43:49.it. That's right. So what are the sticks you have got? We have already
:43:50. > :43:54.suspended talks on VISA liberalisation, we have suspended
:43:55. > :44:00.talks on a new agreement... I am sorry, but hoops of derision from
:44:01. > :44:06.the Kremlin at that level of measure. Well, as I was saying, none
:44:07. > :44:11.of these things force a withdrawal from Crimea. But they will raise the
:44:12. > :44:18.cost to Russia. The next step does involve travel bans and as it
:44:19. > :44:24.freezes on individuals, and that will be taken very seriously by the
:44:25. > :44:32.individuals concerned. Have we got guts to do that in London? That
:44:33. > :44:35.unfortunately exposed piece of paper seemed to suggest that we are not
:44:36. > :44:39.going to stop Russians coming here, we are not prepared to be tough with
:44:40. > :44:42.Russians in London? We are one of the countries which has been
:44:43. > :44:46.advocating a strong response within the European Union. The Prime
:44:47. > :44:51.Minister led the way on that at the council in Brussels last week. There
:44:52. > :44:56.is no measure which the United Kingdom has blocked on this. Britain
:44:57. > :45:02.is a country which has strong laws against money-laundering, very clear
:45:03. > :45:05.about corruption. The idea that Britain is going to block anything
:45:06. > :45:10.that Europe might agree to, that would be totally mistaken. Nobody in
:45:11. > :45:16.Russia should rely on that, and nobody should think that we would do
:45:17. > :45:19.that. So, what are we going to do about Putin-supporting, super-rich
:45:20. > :45:32.Russians in London, buying property here, educating their children here,
:45:33. > :45:36.coming and going as they please? There are people in London from all
:45:37. > :45:45.over the world, and if they are here legally they can be easier. I have
:45:46. > :45:50.just been setting out things we will change and that includes those
:45:51. > :45:56.responsible... What are we going to change? That depends on the
:45:57. > :46:01.individual. We are not going to say that a Russian who is here entirely
:46:02. > :46:08.legally cannot come to London, of course we are not going to say that,
:46:09. > :46:13.but the consequences, the economic, trade and financial consequences, as
:46:14. > :46:18.again set out on Thursday, of Russia continuing to make the situation
:46:19. > :46:24.worse would be far reaching in the words of the European Council. That
:46:25. > :46:28.has to be taken seriously. Yes, people can say none of those things
:46:29. > :46:34.bring about any immediate resolution, and we are trying every
:46:35. > :46:40.diplomatic effort to do so, but they are rising cost to Russia, behaving
:46:41. > :46:44.in this way, and it is right that we do that because it is in our
:46:45. > :46:51.national interest that international treaties are upheld and it has been
:46:52. > :46:58.violated by the actions of Russia. President Putin says there are no
:46:59. > :47:02.Russian troops in Crimea, is he lying? There clearly are Russian
:47:03. > :47:08.troops in Crimea, people with Russian equipment. All of the
:47:09. > :47:15.evidence is that they are, there is no plausible explanation of where
:47:16. > :47:20.else they may have come from. So President Putin is trying to deceive
:47:21. > :47:24.the world on this. There is nothing that we are saying or doing that
:47:25. > :47:29.will make them leave, so to that limited extent at least for the time
:47:30. > :47:33.being, the Russians have got what they want. They have taken
:47:34. > :47:39.possession of Crimea but I would argue it would be in the interests
:47:40. > :47:43.of Russia, faced with these short-term and long-term
:47:44. > :47:47.consequences of this action, to enter into a diplomatic process with
:47:48. > :47:51.Ukraine. This is what John Kerry is trying to bring about with the
:47:52. > :47:56.support of countries like the UK, I will be talking to him later about
:47:57. > :48:02.the next steps. By the way John Kerry is not saying he wants to
:48:03. > :48:07.close down diplomatic space, he is saying Russia's actions in going
:48:08. > :48:15.ahead with such a rushed referendum, preventing the monitors getting into
:48:16. > :48:19.Crimea, those things are closing down the diplomatic space. But that
:48:20. > :48:24.referendum is going to take place presumably, and if it says, yes, we
:48:25. > :48:29.want to be part of Russia, that will happen. There seems to be a tacit
:48:30. > :48:34.acceptance that the Russians will keep Crimea, and as long as they
:48:35. > :48:41.don't push into mainland Ukraine we will shake our heads and walk away
:48:42. > :48:44.in the end. I don't think there is a tacit acceptance. Some of the
:48:45. > :48:53.consequences we were talking about will follow if that happens.
:48:54. > :48:56.Certainly those long-term things I talked about will happen. This is
:48:57. > :49:06.the creation of another frozen conflict in Europe, like we have
:49:07. > :49:13.seen in Georgia and Moldova. Is it clear in Shakespeare who said, I
:49:14. > :49:17.shall do such terrible things... It sounds like that. There will be
:49:18. > :49:23.terrible consequences, we don't know what they will be but there will be
:49:24. > :49:27.terrible consequences. I have just explained what some of them will be,
:49:28. > :49:33.and there is a danger for Russia that they have made a
:49:34. > :49:38.miscalculation. Their plan was clearly adopted at short notice,
:49:39. > :49:48.they hadn't expected the former president Yanukovych to leave the
:49:49. > :49:53.country. It will turn out that this is a miscalculation because the
:49:54. > :49:59.long-term effect will be to unite Ukraine more against Russian
:50:00. > :50:04.domination and to recast European policies in a way that will reduce
:50:05. > :50:09.Russian Loveridge over Europe. Last time we spoke I talked about the
:50:10. > :50:14.Russian tanks going in, they were armoured personnel carriers, but
:50:15. > :50:19.what if the Russian tanks go into mainland Ukraine? Is there anything
:50:20. > :50:24.the west can do to stop it happening? Anything that widens
:50:25. > :50:30.still further this conflict and creates even greater dangers, that
:50:31. > :50:35.would bring for Europe those far reaching consequences that the
:50:36. > :50:38.European Council has talked about, and the United States would also
:50:39. > :50:43.take extremely strong measures, and it is clear that everything we have
:50:44. > :50:49.seen from the Ukraine in recent days, there isn't popular support
:50:50. > :50:53.for any such Russian intervention. If the EU countries were going to be
:50:54. > :50:59.really tough with Russians and cut off the oil and gas contracts, they
:51:00. > :51:03.would need to get that coming in particularly from America, and there
:51:04. > :51:10.needs to be new talks about energy supplies. Are those talks starting?
:51:11. > :51:16.It is now beginning to be discussed. So you are talking to John Kerry and
:51:17. > :51:24.President Obama about this? Yes, there is an increased case for that.
:51:25. > :51:27.In December I was at the inauguration of a new pipeline that
:51:28. > :51:32.might take several years to construct, from the Caspian Sea into
:51:33. > :51:37.southern Europe, bringing gas supplies that do not pass through
:51:38. > :51:42.Russia. The case for such developments will increase now. So
:51:43. > :51:48.Europe will work hard and fast to limits and it -- limit its
:51:49. > :51:54.independence on Russia in the future? We will be leading the way
:51:55. > :52:00.in advocating that, if we don't make any progress. In the coming days we
:52:01. > :52:05.will be using every diplomatic channels to reduce these tensions,
:52:06. > :52:11.to reduce the danger of provocation or a sudden flash point creating an
:52:12. > :52:19.even worse situation. If none of that succeeds, many of the other
:52:20. > :52:19.consequences will follow. Now, the news headlines. The Foreign
:52:20. > :52:28.Secretary has does -- described the news headlines. The Foreign
:52:29. > :52:29.Russian intervention in Ukraine is a serious miscalculation. He said
:52:30. > :52:35.other countries would recast their relationships with Russia. William
:52:36. > :52:39.Hague said there would be rising costs if Russia made the situation
:52:40. > :52:43.worse. Pro-and anti-Russian demonstrations are due to take place
:52:44. > :52:48.across the Ukraine today. President Obama has warned Russia that any
:52:49. > :52:52.attempts to annex the Crimean region would close the door to diplomacy.
:52:53. > :52:57.Search teams are trying to establish what happened to Malaysia Airlines
:52:58. > :53:09.passenger plane that disappeared over the South China Sea. Radar
:53:10. > :53:11.signals show the plane may have turned back shortly before it
:53:12. > :53:22.vanished. Vietnamese planes have spotted oil slicks in the seat but
:53:23. > :53:25.no wreckage has been found. Malaysian officials say they are now
:53:26. > :53:26.investigating the identities of two passengers who were flying on stolen
:53:27. > :53:31.passports. That's all from me. The next news on
:53:32. > :53:34.BBC One is at one o'clock. Back to Andrew in a moment. First, a look at
:53:35. > :53:37.what's coming up immediately after this programme. Join us when we will
:53:38. > :53:40.be talking about our moral obligation to Ukraine, and we will
:53:41. > :53:46.be talking about children brought up by fundamentalists - can they be
:53:47. > :53:50.damaged? The Foreign Secretary is still with
:53:51. > :53:53.us, and we're joined once more by Gavin Hewitt, the BBC's Europe
:53:54. > :53:56.Editor. Now, these are good times for powerfully-voiced, female
:53:57. > :53:59.singer-songwriters. One of the most original talents to emerge in the
:54:00. > :54:02.past few years is Paloma Faith, known for her flamboyant costumes
:54:03. > :54:05.and highly stylised videos and stage shows. Her first two albums were
:54:06. > :54:09.hugely successful, with platinum sales. She's about to release her
:54:10. > :54:20.third, and we'll hear a track from it in a moment. Paloma, tell us a
:54:21. > :54:24.little bit about this album. I decided to stop complaining about
:54:25. > :54:33.melancholy and emotional heartbreak, and think, it is going to happen so
:54:34. > :54:38.I may as well dance about it. Something more upbeat? Yes, I
:54:39. > :54:46.decided to release something new, it is called A Perfect Contradiction.
:54:47. > :54:54.Gavin, what did you make of the lack of armoury, it seems to many people,
:54:55. > :55:00.in the west? There is one scenario that might create extra difficulties
:55:01. > :55:04.for the west and the UK. If Russia were to push into mainland Ukraine,
:55:05. > :55:08.from having been there in the last few weeks, I'm convinced that some
:55:09. > :55:16.Ukrainians would be provoked into retaliating. At that moment, we
:55:17. > :55:20.would have conflict at the heart of Europe. In those circumstances,
:55:21. > :55:24.would you reply as you have just done that there is essentially
:55:25. > :55:29.nothing we can do, certainly on a military level, or is that the
:55:30. > :55:35.moment then you would consider having trade sanctions? I just said
:55:36. > :55:41.in my answer to Andrew about that, there would be far reaching trade
:55:42. > :55:48.and economic consequences of any such thing. Certainly that would
:55:49. > :55:57.bring about those consequences, and it would bring a great danger of a
:55:58. > :56:01.real shooting conflict. Ukrainian army is comparatively speaking tiny
:56:02. > :56:08.compared to the Russian forces, so would weep at that point to say to
:56:09. > :56:12.the Ukrainians, don't fight. We have commended their restraint so far. It
:56:13. > :56:16.is not really possible to go through different scenarios with the
:56:17. > :56:21.Ukrainians and say, in these circumstances you shoot, in these,
:56:22. > :56:24.you don't. They have not risen to any provocation from Russia so we
:56:25. > :56:32.have to concentrate on putting out that message. Thank you, both.
:56:33. > :56:35.That's all we have time for today. Next week, I'll be talking to the
:56:36. > :56:40.Chancellor George Osborne and his Labour shadow, Ed Balls, ahead of
:56:41. > :56:43.the Budget. Plus Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond. But we leave
:56:44. > :56:45.you now with Paloma Faith, and her new song, Can't Rely On You.
:56:46. > :57:04.Goodbye. # How would you gon' do, no this way
:57:05. > :57:17.# I work so hard for you every day # While you out, late night # Girl,
:57:18. > :57:24.what you do? # Chillin' with who? # While I'm sitting at home # Come on
:57:25. > :57:28.with it! # I don't know what this world is
:57:29. > :57:33.coming to. # I just can't rely on you # I just
:57:34. > :57:37.can't rely on you # Yeah, you got that good stuff but that don't last
:57:38. > :57:50.# So I just can't rely on you # Just can't rely on you # Oh, Lord # How
:57:51. > :57:54.am I to ever explain? # I'm a melted heart, went right
:57:55. > :58:10.down the drain # Cos if you don't want me # Come on with it!
:58:11. > :58:17.# I don't know what this world is coming to.
:58:18. > :58:21.# I just can't rely on you # I just can't rely on you # Yeah, you got
:58:22. > :58:41.that good stuff but that don't last # So I just can't rely on you # Just
:58:42. > :58:46.can't rely on you # Time to go # Really # You can say what you want #
:58:47. > :58:55.But I'm out that door # Can't stop me # Oh, my man # Oh, Lord # I just
:58:56. > :59:00.can't rely on you # I just can't rely on you # Yeah, you got that
:59:01. > :59:03.good stuff but that don't last # So I just can't rely on you # Just