15/06/2014

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:34. > :00:47.It's only football. Join me today for our review of the Sunday

:00:48. > :01:04.newspapers, the editor of the biggest selling Sunday, the jury in

:01:05. > :01:10.Newton and one -- Victoria Newton and Azfal Ashraf. The country was

:01:11. > :01:13.supposed to be a haven of peace and democracy, but the person we want to

:01:14. > :01:19.hear from is Tony Blair. And we will. He spoke to was earlier from

:01:20. > :01:23.the Middle East and laid out how he sees the current crisis and what the

:01:24. > :01:28.West should do now. But what of his original decision to go to war in

:01:29. > :01:33.2003? When you revisit the things you are saying at the time, like in

:01:34. > :01:36.Congress, that Iraqi becoming a beacon of peace, stability and

:01:37. > :01:40.democracy, you must acknowledge there was an element of naivete

:01:41. > :01:48.that? I acknowledge absolutely that the hopes not fulfilled. The next

:01:49. > :01:51.biggest political story remains the Scottish independence referendum.

:01:52. > :01:55.Last week we spoke to Alex Salmond for the yes campaign, and this week

:01:56. > :02:01.we speak to one of the big beast of the Labour Party brought in for the

:02:02. > :02:04.prounion campaign, John Reid, former cabinet minister in virtually every

:02:05. > :02:11.job you can think of, now Lord Reed. We have also got the newest cabinet

:02:12. > :02:14.minister, Sajid Javid, who, as culture Secretary, takes

:02:15. > :02:20.responsibility from everything to football, lucky man, to the BBC.

:02:21. > :02:25.Lucky man. He's also responsible for theatre, and on cue, I will be

:02:26. > :02:31.talking to one of the of grain -- grandest of grand dames, the great

:02:32. > :02:37.Kathleen Turner. It's going to be one heck of an hour. First the news.

:02:38. > :02:39.The United States says any assistance to fight the violent

:02:40. > :02:42.Islamist uprising in parts of Iraq will only succeed if the Iraqi

:02:43. > :02:45.authorities overcome deep divisions and forge 'national unity'.

:02:46. > :02:48.The warning comes as Iran says it could be prepared to work with

:02:49. > :02:52.Meanwhile, the former Prime Minister Tony Blair has blamed the renewed

:02:53. > :02:54.violence on the failure of western countries to intervene in Syria.

:02:55. > :02:57.He says the advance of insurgents has to be countered

:02:58. > :03:03.with force but not necessarily another ground invasion.

:03:04. > :03:17.This is where the fightback against Sunni Muslim militants begins. The

:03:18. > :03:23.Iraqi government, hopes. These pictures show a helicopter gunships

:03:24. > :03:26.hitting militant targets. The Iraqi prime minister has vowed to retake

:03:27. > :03:33.the towns and villages overpowered by insurgents in recent days. And

:03:34. > :03:42.these are the forces he is trying to stop, Sunni fighters from the ISIS

:03:43. > :03:48.group, who have been five -- advanced to the north of Baghdad. 1

:03:49. > :03:52.million people having left homeless according to the UN, senior

:03:53. > :03:57.officials say a failure to repel the attack would tear the country apart.

:03:58. > :04:01.We are seeing a very serious threat to the sovereignty and integrity of

:04:02. > :04:05.the country, that is what needs to be dealt with. It cannot be dealt

:04:06. > :04:11.with only militarily, but not only politically, because your opponent

:04:12. > :04:18.is a very determined organisation, a group of people who seek to destroy

:04:19. > :04:22.the state. Fearful that Iraq might be on the brink, the US has sent an

:04:23. > :04:27.aircraft carrier to the region while Barack Obama considers possible air

:04:28. > :04:34.strikes. The Iranians president says his country is willing to help both

:04:35. > :04:37.Iraq and the US confirmed what he calls terrorist groups. The blame

:04:38. > :04:42.game over who is responsible for the ISIS gains continues. Writing on his

:04:43. > :04:47.website, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair says the upturn

:04:48. > :04:49.in violence is the predictable result of the West's failure to

:04:50. > :04:54.intervene in neighbouring Syria. Hopes of a positive start

:04:55. > :04:56.for the England team were dashed as they were beaten 2-1 by Italy in

:04:57. > :05:00.the heat and humidity of Manaus, in For those who couldn't make it to

:05:01. > :05:04.Brazil, there was comfort in numbers, as fans gathered

:05:05. > :05:07.together to watch the match.Mike Bushell joined some of them

:05:08. > :05:18.in Liverpool. The heat and humidity dictated the

:05:19. > :05:23.pace and both sides looked ragged. Early on, fancier for Raheem

:05:24. > :05:28.Sterling had found just an opening, only to realise it was the side

:05:29. > :05:32.netting. The feeling was that England were giving Italy too much

:05:33. > :05:39.space, so nobody was to surprise when the Italians did opening -- did

:05:40. > :05:44.open the scoring. But the disappointment didn't last for long.

:05:45. > :05:51.And the relief was there as Daniel Sturridge turned in the equaliser

:05:52. > :05:58.and got the party going again. But the half-time bubble of optimism was

:05:59. > :06:01.burst, because after the break, Mario Balotelli exposed the

:06:02. > :06:06.frailties at the back once more. That frustration for England fans

:06:07. > :06:09.only grew as England huffed and puffed but could not break down the

:06:10. > :06:19.Italian's notoriously strong defence. God bit tired towards the

:06:20. > :06:23.end. The skills weren't there. The Italians probably a bit better in

:06:24. > :06:28.possession, kept the ball, didn't run as much. It showed over the 90

:06:29. > :06:32.minutes. We have the chance is to have won the game, that is for sure.

:06:33. > :06:37.There it is, England can find a way through, so it gets more tense for

:06:38. > :06:41.the England fans next Thursday against Uruguay. England can draw

:06:42. > :06:44.comfort from the fact that the team has never failed to qualify from the

:06:45. > :06:49.group stage of the World Cup they have been out since 1958. However,

:06:50. > :06:52.Uruguay are the South American champions and are also wounded

:06:53. > :06:56.having lost their opening match as well. Mike, with the fans in

:06:57. > :06:59.Liverpool, for BBC News. Older people with HIV need better

:07:00. > :07:02.support to keep them well, that's according to the

:07:03. > :07:04.Royal College of Nursing.It's estimated that around a quarter

:07:05. > :07:06.of the 100,000 people with HIV Nurses say better training

:07:07. > :07:11.for staff is needed to ensure that those living with

:07:12. > :07:13.the virus do not face stigma when The former British number one

:07:14. > :07:20.tennis player, Elena Baltacha, who died last month, will be remembered

:07:21. > :07:23.today as a number of mixed doubles The 30-year-old died

:07:24. > :07:27.of liver cancer, and the matches are in aid of

:07:28. > :07:30.Baltacha's tennis academy in Ipswich Wimbledon champion Andy Murray will

:07:31. > :07:38.take part along with Tim Henman Murray's mother Judy says today's

:07:39. > :07:57.matches are I'll be back with the headlines just

:07:58. > :08:00.before ten a.m.. As usual, to the front pages, and the single biggest

:08:01. > :08:05.technical challenge for the newspapers was getting the England

:08:06. > :08:11.result in. We will be talking to the editor of the sun on Sunday, but

:08:12. > :08:17.first is her front-page, about the ballet dancer and Mick Jagger. There

:08:18. > :08:21.we go. With some of the other papers it's hard to know whether they knew

:08:22. > :08:25.or not. The Sunday Telegraph, which we don't have here, oh no, there it

:08:26. > :08:32.is, says England against Italy, down but not out. They don't have the

:08:33. > :08:38.result. Was that an inspired guess? And also the effect on the taxes on

:08:39. > :08:43.house prices going up and we will pay more in depth duties. The Mail

:08:44. > :08:46.on Sunday has Cameron telling UK Muslims to be more British and we'll

:08:47. > :08:55.talk about that later on. And the Sunday Times, still has its teeth

:08:56. > :09:01.into the backside of fever, a big investigation on the story and Kate

:09:02. > :09:05.are. To review the papers, Victoria Newton, and Azfal Ashraf, who was a

:09:06. > :09:09.counterterrorism officer working for the United States Institute, the

:09:10. > :09:13.oldest think tank in the world, founded by the Duke of Edinburgh --

:09:14. > :09:19.Duke of Wellington. You have served both in Iraq and Afghanistan. We

:09:20. > :09:22.will go straight to the extraordinary Iraqi effect, and you

:09:23. > :09:27.have chosen the Sunday express their and Tony Blair's essay which he

:09:28. > :09:33.revealed on a website overnight. We have a crisis in Iraq and we are all

:09:34. > :09:40.thinking about what we should do about it, and the ex-prime minister

:09:41. > :09:46.wants to say it was not him. That makes me wonder whether Shakespeare

:09:47. > :09:53.should be quoted here. He does protest too loudly. I also wonder

:09:54. > :09:57.who his media advisers are because right now, I don't think anybody

:09:58. > :10:02.would have been looking for blame. They are looking for solutions here.

:10:03. > :10:07.Anyhow, what he is saying is that if he had not invaded Iraq it would

:10:08. > :10:15.have been just as bad if not worse, that is what he suggests. An

:10:16. > :10:21.impossible thing to argue about. It is counterfactual. As to the actual

:10:22. > :10:25.insurgency itself, we have seen the Iraqi army running away again and we

:10:26. > :10:29.have a Sunni Muslim militia being roused, led by uranium officers.

:10:30. > :10:41.What is your feeling about the balance of forces on the ground --

:10:42. > :10:50.Iranians officers. There are reports that one general is there with 67

:10:51. > :10:57.advisers, and it's not clear but Ukraine is 1000 miles away, and the

:10:58. > :11:06.thing that is worrying us in Iraq is on Iran's doorstep. They sent some

:11:07. > :11:10.typhoon planes to calm things down and it's natural that the Iranians

:11:11. > :11:18.would want to do something. A small party of 67 is going to be an

:11:19. > :11:24.advisory thing. The militias, those are just people being roused by the

:11:25. > :11:29.spiritual head of the Shia Muslims, trying to protect what they think is

:11:30. > :11:37.an -- an existential threat. The main defence in Baghdad will be by

:11:38. > :11:43.the Army. They have deserted in the North, but that is not to say that

:11:44. > :11:46.they will desert around Baghdad, and there are reasons for that. There is

:11:47. > :11:52.a sense this is the final fight for Baghdad and if they don't hold it,

:11:53. > :12:00.it's all over. Absolutely. Baghdad could be a city too far for ISIS.

:12:01. > :12:04.They might have overstretched themselves, and I think if there is

:12:05. > :12:10.going to be a military intervention by the Iranians or the Americans,

:12:11. > :12:18.this is the time to do it, because they have broken cover. If they

:12:19. > :12:24.retreat back into Mosul and Tikrit, it becomes an urban war. Victoria,

:12:25. > :12:27.you have chosen one of your rival newspapers, the Mail on Sunday to

:12:28. > :12:34.discuss the second story. They have done a great graphic, an eyewitness

:12:35. > :12:39.report from the ground in Baghdad, and they have obviously gone on to

:12:40. > :12:46.the Tony Blair story. They are quite critical of him. He is also pointing

:12:47. > :12:50.out that in Syria they fail to take action and this has become a huge

:12:51. > :12:54.problem, and that is his justification. You picked up on the

:12:55. > :13:03.PR point about why he chose to speak out now. He will be hugely

:13:04. > :13:10.criticised this. Smoking ban, minimum wage, it's odd he has stuck

:13:11. > :13:15.his orient. He is a frustrated man because the only thing people want

:13:16. > :13:19.to talk about the 2003 decision, which will be round his neck for the

:13:20. > :13:24.rest of his life. Which he still believes is the right decision. The

:13:25. > :13:27.tragedy is heaving -- is that he did some good things in Sierra Leone and

:13:28. > :13:34.Kosovo. They were successful because they will -- there was an early

:13:35. > :13:40.intervention so there was no catastrophe. You have to be careful

:13:41. > :13:45.of taking one lesson and applying it to another. You mentioned Ukraine

:13:46. > :13:49.earlier on and you have chosen the Observer, and it looks very like a

:13:50. > :13:55.Civil War already going on there. I think it is. This is a story about a

:13:56. > :14:03.military transport aircraft that was shot down by the rebels. Today the

:14:04. > :14:09.president of Ukraine has declared a day of mourning. The question is, is

:14:10. > :14:16.this a tipping point? Well, I'm not sure. I think there is another story

:14:17. > :14:24.that has been eclipsed by this, which I are some old tanks... They

:14:25. > :14:27.are Russian tanks though. They are Russian tanks, and their rocket

:14:28. > :14:31.launchers, but they are obsolete tags, so the suggestion is that

:14:32. > :14:37.Vladimir Putin is pushing them in, but if he was going to reinforce the

:14:38. > :14:42.rebels, he would have got better weaponry than what is being sent

:14:43. > :14:47.across. So it is a game, albeit a dangerous one. Victoria, your neck

:14:48. > :14:52.story, which is politics, your own newspaper having an opinion about --

:14:53. > :14:56.your next story. And it shows that Tony Blair is more popular than Ed

:14:57. > :14:59.Miliband as a potential leader. The majority of voters say it is the

:15:00. > :15:04.case. Labour voters traditionally think that Tony Blair would be at a

:15:05. > :15:16.leader, so Ed Miliband not having a great week. He is marginally more

:15:17. > :15:21.popular than Gordon Brown by 1%. Look that if people were feeling

:15:22. > :15:25.this recovery and this is seen as a huge divide, in the north they are

:15:26. > :15:33.not and in the site they are. And considering moving homes and going

:15:34. > :15:37.on holiday. -- in the South. This is a very big economic decision, how

:15:38. > :15:45.much money to be spent to get that result out? You kept the press is

:15:46. > :15:50.opening for much longer. This is hugely important, there is even and

:15:51. > :15:55.show aspect, you need more glories and printing presses with more

:15:56. > :16:04.people working later into the light. The football edition had to be

:16:05. > :16:09.finished at 1:15pm -- 1:15am. Did you have front pages for England

:16:10. > :16:13.winning, the draw and Philip? Absolutely, and you must select this

:16:14. > :16:19.quickly. -- failure. You cannot afford to be late. And we did this

:16:20. > :16:25.better than any other paper, I think. The Daily Mail, this argument

:16:26. > :16:29.about Muslim values in schools, are they promoting values which are

:16:30. > :16:34.contrary to the tone of this country? That is evolution of the

:16:35. > :16:43.story but what the Prime Minister wants to do is take the anniversary

:16:44. > :16:48.of the Magna Carta and suggest we should have British values. I have

:16:49. > :16:52.two different things, the headline and the other is the way that the

:16:53. > :16:57.story is running. The headline is not helpful. It says to anybody

:16:58. > :17:03.looking at this is that Muslims are not Jewish. And tells any of them

:17:04. > :17:10.that they are not. And it says to extremists, but tiny minority, that,

:17:11. > :17:15.yes, they are not British. And they are helping them. When you read the

:17:16. > :17:21.actual text, the Prime Minister avoidance mentioning Muslims, he is

:17:22. > :17:25.talking about any extremist. What we forget is these extremists are a

:17:26. > :17:31.very tiny minority, the vast majority of Muslim people... Don't

:17:32. > :17:38.drain the swamp because you need the crocodiles and nothing but?

:17:39. > :17:49.Absolutely, and most Muslims are very patriotic. Victoria. This Royal

:17:50. > :17:56.story. From the Independent. Another opinion poll? They did not use any

:17:57. > :17:59.picture of the people involved. This shows that the public think that

:18:00. > :18:04.William is more popular than the Queen, which is shocking. What is

:18:05. > :18:08.interesting for the newspaper is, in terms of sales, Prince Harry is by

:18:09. > :18:14.far the most popular. Amongst our own readers. No mention of Kate

:18:15. > :18:20.Middleton. Her popularity as unsightly winning, perhaps we need

:18:21. > :18:26.to see more of her. -- is slightly falling. And the football, you have

:18:27. > :18:30.taken the story from the Sunday Times. You were talking earlier

:18:31. > :18:42.about this perhaps being milking this too much? When you look at the

:18:43. > :18:48.details, this is a red herring. The allegation is that a South African

:18:49. > :18:55.policeman did a report on the security threat and he basically

:18:56. > :19:00.came to the conclusion that because Qatar is near some insecure places,

:19:01. > :19:07.it is of a high threat and he does admit this is superficial and as a

:19:08. > :19:12.security person, I can see why this report was not a major factor. But

:19:13. > :19:17.the allegation is this is one of the many things that led to the grub

:19:18. > :19:21.decision. I must let you talk about your own front page and the

:19:22. > :19:27.football. It was a very long night for England fans. The coverage was

:19:28. > :19:34.everywhere. What is the verdict, looking ahead? What hope do you

:19:35. > :19:38.have? We are trying to be up to it, we can still do it, Uruguay on

:19:39. > :19:45.Thursday, we did not want to dismiss them. People think they played very

:19:46. > :19:50.well. We are trying to be positive. The sun was in the papers this week,

:19:51. > :19:56.Ed Miliband having some trouble for holding it up as Mike were you

:19:57. > :20:01.disappointed by that? Yes, he has worked with us, he has written

:20:02. > :20:05.articles for me and we get on very well so it did seem odd to make that

:20:06. > :20:07.decision and then worry afterwards and apologise. Thank you both very

:20:08. > :20:11.much. Given the temperatures

:20:12. > :20:13.and humidity that the England football team have had to contend

:20:14. > :20:15.with in the Amazon jungle, it seems almost churlish to quibble

:20:16. > :20:18.about the weather here in Britain. But it has been a bit muggy,

:20:19. > :20:21.splodges of rain amidst hot sun. As summery as most

:20:22. > :20:23.of us can cope with. So with the forecast for the day

:20:24. > :20:38.ahead, over to Philip Avery. 16 degrees is a night-time minimum

:20:39. > :20:42.in Cardiff. Through the coming day, some sunshine around, there is a lot

:20:43. > :20:47.of cloud around at the moment but it will be pleasantly warm. The cloud

:20:48. > :20:52.at its thickest from the Borders through the North of England, one or

:20:53. > :20:56.two buckets of rain at the moment. But this area of high pressure

:20:57. > :21:03.supply is all about cloud but keeps things settled. It is just feeding

:21:04. > :21:07.in some noticeable breezes across the South East and that is tapping

:21:08. > :21:16.into the supply of cloud there. We will stay cloudy East. This central

:21:17. > :21:21.belt of Scotland, 20 degrees, Northern Ireland, 19 And dry. One or

:21:22. > :21:29.two showers on the diagonal from the North of England, through the West

:21:30. > :21:34.Midlands. Generally speaking, the further east, the better the day.

:21:35. > :21:41.Monday, showers in the far south-east, some cloud and rain in

:21:42. > :21:43.the north of Scotland and in between, sunny with a top

:21:44. > :21:50.temperature of 20 degrees. Thank you.

:21:51. > :21:52.The arguments over Scottish independence have been raging

:21:53. > :21:54.for years but it is now less than 100 days before

:21:55. > :21:57.the crucial referendum on Scotland's future on September the 18th.

:21:58. > :21:59.Last week we heard from the First Minister, Alex Salmond.

:22:00. > :22:02.Putting the unionist case today, I'm joined by Lord John Reid,

:22:03. > :22:12.It has been said that the yes campaign has more enthusiasm and

:22:13. > :22:19.optimism. And the no campaign has been quite pessimistic? Are you

:22:20. > :22:24.trying to generate optimism's there are plenty of people to do that, I

:22:25. > :22:28.think that the campaign from our side has been trying to rationally

:22:29. > :22:34.examine the arguments and the yes campaign has been putting forward

:22:35. > :22:39.some fantasy and wishful thinking. And that generates a lot of

:22:40. > :22:45.excitement but when you examine that position over the bigger issues,

:22:46. > :22:49.what are the advantages of being a member of the UK? Financial

:22:50. > :22:54.stability and economic strength and the social justice measures. On the

:22:55. > :23:01.other hand, we risk of separation of currency and Europe and the funding

:23:02. > :23:09.of pensions. When you focus on those arguments, you will find that we

:23:10. > :23:18.will sensibly take the no vote. You are confident? I am not complacent.

:23:19. > :23:22.There has always been the minority in Scotland who objected to the

:23:23. > :23:28.union. But when you look at what we have achieved over that period, in

:23:29. > :23:34.terms of economic development and, as Alex Salmond tells us, one of the

:23:35. > :23:37.wealthiest nations in the world, are we supposed to blame England for

:23:38. > :23:43.that? That is a reason for staying in the union and why the majority

:23:44. > :23:46.have always been for membership. I get the impression that there are

:23:47. > :23:50.but one of the big driving forces on the yes campaign is a feeling of

:23:51. > :23:55.Scotland wants to be left of centre, social democratic. Higher taxes to

:23:56. > :23:59.protect the welfare and the NHS and they cannot get that reliably any

:24:00. > :24:06.more from England, which has drifted to the right. What do you say? There

:24:07. > :24:10.is a great feeling in Scotland towards the need for social justice

:24:11. > :24:14.and fairness and you do not have to look into any crystal ball, you can

:24:15. > :24:19.read the book, the welfare state, the National Health Service, the

:24:20. > :24:26.minimum wage, all of these things have been delivered by British

:24:27. > :24:28.Labour or a liberal governments. Never buy National Assembly and they

:24:29. > :24:36.have been delivered and working together, so the NHS, driven by a

:24:37. > :24:42.Welshman, the welfare state by Beveridge, and Ingush men, votes for

:24:43. > :24:48.women, founded by adding rich woman, and the Scots have contributed,

:24:49. > :24:51.David Hume, Adam Smith, right through to the last Labour

:24:52. > :24:57.government with so many Scots introduced after 100 years, the

:24:58. > :25:02.minimum wage. The irony of Alex Salmond making this an issue, I do

:25:03. > :25:05.welcome that because it is through this work together in the UK that we

:25:06. > :25:13.have delivered all of those measures. Another issue is about

:25:14. > :25:15.trust. All of the unionist parties, particularly the Labour Party, say

:25:16. > :25:21.if there is a no vote, there will be further evolution measures,

:25:22. > :25:25.including tax raising powers. Yes campaign say you cannot trust that,

:25:26. > :25:28.they are panicking in the middle of a campaign and they will put the no

:25:29. > :25:32.vote in their back could add salt off. You can only trust more powers

:25:33. > :25:38.to the Scottish Parliament by voting yes. Looking at the facts and

:25:39. > :25:46.history books, it was a Labour government who delivered in 1997

:25:47. > :25:50.home rule for Scotland through devolution and, of course, to Wales

:25:51. > :25:54.and Northern Ireland. For most of that campaign, in which I was

:25:55. > :26:03.involved, the SNP were opposed to devolution. The Calman commission in

:26:04. > :26:05.2012, which set out the platform for further fish grow for further

:26:06. > :26:18.economic powers, when it was suggested, the SNP opposed that. --

:26:19. > :26:22.further growth. Is there anything Unionist parties can do to further

:26:23. > :26:26.convince people that they will deliver further devolution if there

:26:27. > :26:32.is the no vote? You must put forward the positive case, financial

:26:33. > :26:38.stability gained from way back until the Royal Bank of Scotland only a

:26:39. > :26:48.few years ago. 35 pounds of toxic debt, richer than the GDP of

:26:49. > :26:51.Scotland. -- 35 million pounds. The position we have is a wealthy

:26:52. > :26:57.nation, social justice measures and working together because we have our

:26:58. > :27:03.own political identity in Scotland but we are part of the wider unit.

:27:04. > :27:08.And then, ask people to Alan is that against the risks. We do not know

:27:09. > :27:13.what currency we will get, if we will be members of the European

:27:14. > :27:18.Union or about funding pensions. Sorry to interrupt, you have thrown

:27:19. > :27:24.herself into your other love, foot well and Celtic. Surely the better

:27:25. > :27:30.England do, the angrier the Scots will be? You almost think there is a

:27:31. > :27:34.good hotline for government? If England are knocked out earlier,

:27:35. > :27:39.that will calm things down? I have never believed that you are a better

:27:40. > :27:44.Scotsman the more that you dislike England. I was very pleased to see

:27:45. > :27:48.Alex Salmond saying he was supporting England as one of the

:27:49. > :27:55.home countries and I did watch the game last night, so this is not a

:27:56. > :27:58.battle between England and Scotland. This is a discussion and debate

:27:59. > :28:03.between Scots people about the future of Scotland and the welfare

:28:04. > :28:10.of the people. And in my own view, I am convinced that that is better

:28:11. > :28:13.preserved inside the UK, we can be a very rich, diverse nation with our

:28:14. > :28:18.own identity but part of a much stronger state. Thank you.

:28:19. > :28:22.In a career that's included some of the biggest movies of the '80s

:28:23. > :28:24.and '90s, Kathleen Turner is one of film's foremost femmes fatale.

:28:25. > :28:27.Her partnership with Michael Douglas in Romancing the Stone and The War

:28:28. > :28:30.of the Roses was a great double act of modern comedy.

:28:31. > :28:34.And who else but Turner had the kind of voice that could cause

:28:35. > :28:39.a cartoon to smoulder like Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

:28:40. > :28:42.Her most recent triumphs have been on the stage, often here in London.

:28:43. > :28:44.Kathleen Turner is back again, starring in a very funny new

:28:45. > :28:51.She plays a hard-up, hard-drinking woman who's sure that

:28:52. > :28:56.a painting she bought in a junk shop is worth millions.

:28:57. > :29:11.It is not Jackson Pollock? It is not resolved. Not that easily. But I

:29:12. > :29:18.think that part of what is interesting about this story is,

:29:19. > :29:23.what is value? The value we place on something might be more important

:29:24. > :29:29.than the actual market. This is based on real story. It is about

:29:30. > :29:35.money and class? Very much about class, I think. And the wide

:29:36. > :29:42.disparity of education and money. Certainly in my country, the gap is

:29:43. > :29:48.widening. Quite vividly. Is that why we get so many great plays coming

:29:49. > :29:53.out of America at the moment? We now have this, Bakersfield Mist, very

:29:54. > :30:01.good, tightly written plays. About money and class with big roles for

:30:02. > :30:10.women? Something big is happening? I hope so. I like the tendency towards

:30:11. > :30:14.strong and forceful women. I cannot help that, the one thing I know I

:30:15. > :30:23.would not play well would be the victim. It is just not my nature.

:30:24. > :30:29.But I think that more and more women in my country are standing up

:30:30. > :30:34.proudly and asserting themselves. You seem to be having much more fun

:30:35. > :30:43.on the stage? Than making films? Oh, yes. I have a film coming out soon

:30:44. > :30:48.with Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels. And just reminded me of just how

:30:49. > :30:52.warring I find film-making. You just said there for hours. The act for

:30:53. > :30:58.about 20 minutes and then sit for another two hours. I love the

:30:59. > :31:06.intensity of theatre and being in the same space with the audience.

:31:07. > :31:10.The energy. Of course, you are in the strange position that one of

:31:11. > :31:14.your most famous roles was as a cartoon character, listening to that

:31:15. > :31:18.extraordinary voice you have got, and who framed Roger Rabbit was your

:31:19. > :31:26.breakthrough role for many people. Let's have a little look at it. You

:31:27. > :31:30.have to make the scam works. No, I love my husband. You don't know how

:31:31. > :31:39.hard it is being a woman. Looking the way I do. Yes, well, you don't

:31:40. > :31:44.know how hard it is being a man looking at a woman looking the way

:31:45. > :31:52.you do. I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way. And the great Bob Hoskins,

:31:53. > :31:56.RIP. Michael Douglas was probably your most famous on-screen coupling,

:31:57. > :32:02.as it were. But Bob Hoskins was great as well. He was marvellous.

:32:03. > :32:08.It's always been Michael Douglas and Danny DeVito as well, always the

:32:09. > :32:13.three of us. Danny keeps saying he wants to get the girl in the end one

:32:14. > :32:19.of these days. We will see. You had a bad decade. I want to ask you

:32:20. > :32:28.about pain, because in the 1990s, you had arthritis. I had rheumatoid

:32:29. > :32:36.arthritis. It is a very difficult, incredibly painful, disease. Even

:32:37. > :32:39.though it is not like cancer that can kill you, it can kill your

:32:40. > :32:46.lifestyle altogether. Not being able to move meant not being able to

:32:47. > :32:50.act. I am one of the lucky ones. I have found a job that I was meant to

:32:51. > :33:00.do, you know, so not being able to do that... You are moving a lot on

:33:01. > :33:08.stage. Do you like my fight scene? How about that? Me and my titania

:33:09. > :33:12.minis, baby. You were an early supporter of John Kerry, but what

:33:13. > :33:17.about Hillary Clinton? Will she run? I hope she does. And this time I

:33:18. > :33:23.will absolutely back. The timing is now right, I think. -- back her. She

:33:24. > :33:29.has proven herself in every possible way. Almost every possible way. She

:33:30. > :33:32.has not appeared on that Sophie yet, so you should have a word with her.

:33:33. > :33:35.I shall do so. Get over to The Andrew Marr Show. Kathleen Turner,

:33:36. > :33:46.thank you for coming in. Looking at the violence now

:33:47. > :33:48.engulfing Iraq, with much of the country now under the sway of

:33:49. > :33:51.militant Islamic extremists, many have concluded that the west is now

:33:52. > :33:54.reaping what it sowed when the US, supported

:33:55. > :33:56.by the British government under Can the current instability be

:33:57. > :34:00.traced back to that decision, and what should the West do now,

:34:01. > :34:02.to prevent the situation from 11 years on from the Iraq war,

:34:03. > :34:06.how does Mr Blair view He spoke to me

:34:07. > :34:10.a little earlier this morning from Abu Dhabi, and agreed that events

:34:11. > :34:18.in Iraq are desperately serious. It is vitally important we realise

:34:19. > :34:23.what is at stake here and act, and that will require I think both

:34:24. > :34:30.targeted action from the United States and will require, I think, a

:34:31. > :34:34.national unity government of some sort on the Iraqi side which should

:34:35. > :34:41.be one representative of all of the political parties, one endorsed by

:34:42. > :34:43.the grand ayatollah and has the support of the international

:34:44. > :34:49.community. And then we have do make sure that in respect of Syria, we

:34:50. > :34:53.shift policy, as we have been calling for a long time, and realise

:34:54. > :34:59.if we don't deal with the Syria issue, the problems won't just be

:35:00. > :35:04.for the region, they will come back and hit us very directly, even in

:35:05. > :35:09.our own country. What would it mean for the West and the Middle East if

:35:10. > :35:14.ISIS succeeded in creating an Islamic caliphate going down to the

:35:15. > :35:18.shores of the Mediterranean? Well, it would be a total disaster and it

:35:19. > :35:21.must not be allowed to happen. What is important is to realise how this

:35:22. > :35:25.has come about. It is a situation which has grown up over the last

:35:26. > :35:30.three years and there is no point trying to deal with Iraq if we don't

:35:31. > :35:36.accept the wider regional context, so you have to deal with Syria as

:35:37. > :35:39.well. Yet ISIS could not have had its spectacular military successes

:35:40. > :35:43.if Iraq had not been torn apart by civil war and a lack of authority at

:35:44. > :35:48.the Centre for the last ten years, would it? And that is partly our

:35:49. > :35:54.responsibility in the West. Yes, but we have to be very clear about this.

:35:55. > :35:58.Three years ago, in Iraq, Al-Qaeda was beaten, effectively. Now it's

:35:59. > :36:01.absolutely correct, and this is why Iraq needs a different type of

:36:02. > :36:09.politics and a different way of governing, it is correct that their

:36:10. > :36:13.activities and the policies of the government aiding the situation, but

:36:14. > :36:20.we have to understand the region as a whole. Although we can have the

:36:21. > :36:23.debate about 2003, we realise we are 11 years later in 2014, and the

:36:24. > :36:27.single biggest thing that has changed in the region is the Arab

:36:28. > :36:32.revolutions that have spread across the region. My point is simple. Even

:36:33. > :36:36.if you left Saddam Hussein in place in 2003, when 2011 happened and you

:36:37. > :36:43.have the Arab revolutions going through Tunisia and Libya and the

:36:44. > :36:48.Yemen and Bahrain and Egypt and Syria, you would have still had a

:36:49. > :36:54.major problem in Iraq. Indeed, you can see what happens when you leave

:36:55. > :36:56.the dictator in place, as happened with Bashar al-Assad. What I'm

:36:57. > :37:01.trying to say is, we can rerun the debates about 2003 and there are

:37:02. > :37:04.perfectly legitimate points on either side, but where we are in

:37:05. > :37:10.2014, you have do understand that this is a regional problem but a

:37:11. > :37:12.problem that will affect us. If you talk to security services in France

:37:13. > :37:18.and Germany and the UK, they will tell you their single biggest worry

:37:19. > :37:24.today are returning jihadist fighters, and our own citizens, from

:37:25. > :37:27.Syria. We have to look at Syria and Iraq in context in the region and

:37:28. > :37:31.understand what is going on and engage. That does not mean, by the

:37:32. > :37:35.way, engagement as in Iraq or Afghanistan, but it does mean that

:37:36. > :37:38.we actively try and shape this situation with our allies in the

:37:39. > :37:42.region and don't believe that if we wash our hands and walk away that

:37:43. > :37:49.the problems will be solved. Shape it howl? For example, we take

:37:50. > :37:54.immediate exact -- action in the face of Iraq. In the shape of Syria,

:37:55. > :37:59.the three years, frankly, we have had a contrast of the -- a

:38:00. > :38:02.catastrophe unfolds, and then support the region. And those

:38:03. > :38:06.people, they are virtually a majority in the region, who believe

:38:07. > :38:10.in open and tolerant societies and properly run economies and

:38:11. > :38:14.countries. Let me just say, long-term, I'm an optimist about the

:38:15. > :38:39.region. I think these more modern minded people will win. . Are we

:38:40. > :38:43.talking about drone strikes, the provision of military equipment to

:38:44. > :38:49.the Iraqi government, but the fightback is being led by Iranians

:38:50. > :38:52.military commanders. President Obama is saying all options are on the

:38:53. > :38:57.table and he will be debating with his military commanders what the

:38:58. > :39:01.best way forward is. Whether that is through drones of fighters or

:39:02. > :39:04.whatever is the right and appropriate response. The key thing

:39:05. > :39:08.that they need to know is that they will not be able to continue that

:39:09. > :39:15.push unhindered, and as for the Iranians help, the many Iraqis, they

:39:16. > :39:22.will want to make sure that they are not simply dependent on Iran.

:39:23. > :39:26.Iranians support might be one aspect to this, but for the Iraqis who

:39:27. > :39:29.believe passionately in the independence of their country, they

:39:30. > :39:33.will want that to be treated with some caution. What about putting

:39:34. > :39:43.special forces in. What about Britain's role? Britain has to

:39:44. > :39:55.coordinate closely with the US. I won't put forward any options, and

:39:56. > :39:59.the key point is to understand that we need to engage with it, and if we

:40:00. > :40:12.don't, the consequences will come back on us. Reading your essay, a

:40:13. > :40:21.lot of people will conclude, is there the sense of urgency. We don't

:40:22. > :40:30.need to go back to war in the way we were in Iraq or Afghanistan. The

:40:31. > :40:32.only alternatives are doing nothing will stop there are a myriad set of

:40:33. > :40:34.responses in only alternatives are doing nothing

:40:35. > :40:43.will stop there are a myriad between as we did in Libya, and intervention

:40:44. > :40:48.is tough. Nonintervention is tough, but the best policy for us is to

:40:49. > :40:51.realise that whatever form of intervention we choose, it will be

:40:52. > :40:56.difficult, but better than the alternative, which is to stick it

:40:57. > :41:02.out, and as we see in Syria the appalling results of such a policy.

:41:03. > :41:05.Yet where we have intervened, notably in Iraq, we are partly

:41:06. > :41:10.responsible for what has happened. In Iraq we have seen so many years

:41:11. > :41:16.of instability, and now this, that when we revisit the things you were

:41:17. > :41:19.saying at the time, about Iraq becoming a beacon of peace and

:41:20. > :41:24.stability, you must acknowledge there was an element of naivete in

:41:25. > :41:32.that. I acknowledge our hopes were not fulfil. Even in the last few

:41:33. > :41:38.weeks, millions of people, even a higher percent of people voted

:41:39. > :41:43.higher than in the elections in America and they have produced a

:41:44. > :41:51.regime that has noticeably failed to hold Iraq together and has been

:41:52. > :41:56.sectarian. Macro yellow that has contributed to the problem.

:41:57. > :42:02.Sometimes people talk about Iraq in 2003 like it was stable. You are

:42:03. > :42:06.subject to appalling repression if you occurred or a Shia Muslim. Two

:42:07. > :42:13.wars had been started in the region -- if you were a Kurd. The first

:42:14. > :42:16.decisions I took well with President Clinton, not George Bush, so the

:42:17. > :42:24.idea that Iraqi would be stable is not credible -- Iraq. The question

:42:25. > :42:28.is, whether we from here. I accept that, but at the time, you said it

:42:29. > :42:35.would make Iraq a safer and more stable place and that has clearly

:42:36. > :42:43.not happened, has it? Absolutely, and as I constantly said, and I take

:42:44. > :42:49.full responsibility of the list... So you take full responsibility for

:42:50. > :42:53.the problem? I have constantly said that what we underestimated about

:42:54. > :42:58.Iraq, Afghanistan, the whole of the region, is that once you remove the

:42:59. > :43:01.dictatorship, outcomes this tribal ethnic and above all religious

:43:02. > :43:05.tension and then you are engaged in a different type of struggle, and my

:43:06. > :43:09.plea is, you don't have to engage like we did in Afghanistan, but you

:43:10. > :43:14.have to recognise we have interests, and if these people are allowed to

:43:15. > :43:20.grow these extremist groups, they will pose a threat in our own

:43:21. > :43:24.borders. Hillary Clinton says she deeply regrets her support for the

:43:25. > :43:29.war and David Miliband has said the same thing. What do you think about

:43:30. > :43:35.the word regret that original decision? As I've said many times,

:43:36. > :43:38.of course you regret the loss of life and the difficulties we

:43:39. > :43:42.encountered. But if you say to me, would I prefer a situation where we

:43:43. > :43:46.left Saddam Hussein in 2003, do I think the region would be safer or

:43:47. > :43:52.more stable if we done that, my answer to that is unhesitatingly no.

:43:53. > :43:55.Fighters are being exported back to the West from Syria and elsewhere, a

:43:56. > :43:59.jihadist movement regaining power and confidence in the Middle East

:44:00. > :44:02.and we have the debate in Britain about the way that Muslims in

:44:03. > :44:05.British laws are being educated. Do you agree with the Prime Minister

:44:06. > :44:14.that it is time to reassert British values much more -- in a much more

:44:15. > :44:18.muscular way, if you like? The phrase is draining the swamp of

:44:19. > :44:22.Islamic fundamentalism in schools and communities, or do you think it

:44:23. > :44:26.is a small number of extremist not connected to mainstream conservative

:44:27. > :44:31.Islam? I have a clear view of this. There is a fundamental problem that

:44:32. > :44:35.we face that originated in the region and has spread across the

:44:36. > :44:39.world, and that problem is extremism based on a warped and abusive view

:44:40. > :44:43.of the religion. It is a problem here in the region. It's a problem

:44:44. > :44:49.in countries like Pakistan. It is a problem in the east. We can see from

:44:50. > :44:53.Nigeria it is a problem in African countries and in our own society, as

:44:54. > :44:56.we can see from the issue with the Birmingham schools. It is not a

:44:57. > :45:02.question of reasserting just British values. We have do assert the strong

:45:03. > :45:05.values of religious respect and tolerance for difference, in other

:45:06. > :45:08.words, to say the only way that a modern economy and modern society

:45:09. > :45:11.can work is it people of different faiths learn to live with each

:45:12. > :45:16.other, respect each other and treat each other equally and fairly. Any

:45:17. > :45:20.politics that is based on a view that this is my religion, or this is

:45:21. > :45:23.my view of my religion and if you don't agree, you are my enemy, that

:45:24. > :45:30.is the ideology we have to attack and root out. Finally, Mr Blair,

:45:31. > :45:33.your own role, will you stay as a member of the quartet? Do you think

:45:34. > :45:41.you have a role in trying to put back together the mess that is the

:45:42. > :45:45.Middle East? Despite the difficulties, I want to keep working

:45:46. > :45:51.at this, I have spent a lot of time in this region, thinking about this

:45:52. > :45:59.and I want to contribute. Not back to the commerce guise of Brussels?

:46:00. > :46:01.Absolutely not. -- grey skies. Thank you.

:46:02. > :46:03.The newest member of the Cabinet, Culture Secretary Sajid Javid,

:46:04. > :46:07.The first of the 2010 intake and the first British Asian MP to

:46:08. > :46:11.The son of a Pakistani bus driver, state educated with a hugely

:46:12. > :46:14.successful career in banking before he entered Parliament.

:46:15. > :46:20.So how will all that shape his approach to the job,

:46:21. > :46:23.which is one of the most wide-ranging in government, covering

:46:24. > :46:25.everything from football to theatre, press regulation and the BBC?

:46:26. > :46:28.Sajid Javid joins me now for his first appearance on the show.

:46:29. > :46:44.I will start by asking about that Tony Blair interview, do you agree

:46:45. > :46:52.with what is going on? Is an acre dastardly? It is a huge worry, I

:46:53. > :46:57.utterly condemn the action. -- is this a catastrophe. It is worrying

:46:58. > :47:02.for the world. It is up to the elected government to decide how to

:47:03. > :47:06.respond and what is particularly sad is that if you weeks ago, millions

:47:07. > :47:12.of Iraqis went to the polls, they are elected the new government and

:47:13. > :47:18.there was a great show of democracy and we have this going on in this

:47:19. > :47:21.volatile country. Does the intervention of Tony Blair help or

:47:22. > :47:26.hinder this? When it comes to the Middle East, he has a lock to say

:47:27. > :47:33.and it is important to focus on what is going on, on the ground. We will

:47:34. > :47:38.help with humanitarian aid and Justine Greening is looking at ways

:47:39. > :47:42.we can provide that. It is very important, this region, and it has

:47:43. > :47:47.an impact across the globe. There will not be British jets flying over

:47:48. > :47:54.Baghdad? We have no plans for intervention. You have been

:47:55. > :48:01.bombarded with endless theatre and music and the rest, what has stood

:48:02. > :48:10.out? This is a very small department but it actually affects millions of

:48:11. > :48:15.lives. There are theatres and music and dance and all parts of the

:48:16. > :48:21.cultural sector involved and that is what makes it important. I have been

:48:22. > :48:26.focusing on recognising just how important the creative industry is,

:48:27. > :48:30.in terms of the contribution to the economy, we have the biggest

:48:31. > :48:36.creative sector in Europe with millions of people employed. Just as

:48:37. > :48:42.important as economic contribution is the social value of the cultural

:48:43. > :48:50.sector. That is an eloquent defence but what gets your juices going?

:48:51. > :48:54.What do you really enjoy? I have really enjoyed going to the theatre

:48:55. > :48:58.with my children to see what they want to see and the last thing was

:48:59. > :49:05.warhorse with my younger daughter. The things that I like are not

:49:06. > :49:10.obvious, I went to see a production in Birmingham, about a British Asian

:49:11. > :49:19.family, which reminded me of my roots. I also like music. There is a

:49:20. > :49:22.wide variety of things. It is not to determine what is good and what is

:49:23. > :49:29.not, there is a huge variety of tastes. That is why this sector is

:49:30. > :49:33.so vibrant, my job is to remain -- make sure it remains so. That is

:49:34. > :49:39.something I have been focused on in my speech recently about culture for

:49:40. > :49:44.all people. Will you be dragged out to see England playing football? I

:49:45. > :49:50.would not use that word. I will be going to the third match with Costa

:49:51. > :49:54.Rica. And I am looking forward to that and I will support the team but

:49:55. > :49:59.I will also be banging the drum is for British business. Those

:50:00. > :50:03.Thatcherite admirers of you, we have a Culture Secretary who will say,

:50:04. > :50:08.this department does not need to exist. They will be disappointed? It

:50:09. > :50:16.is a very important department and it touches so much of our lives, and

:50:17. > :50:20.the equality work that I do also, what the government has achieved in

:50:21. > :50:27.that area. The biggest thing longer term is the BBC. Is the trust fit

:50:28. > :50:31.for purpose? The BBC trust has an important role and one job I was not

:50:32. > :50:37.expecting was the resignation of Lord Patten so what I am focused on

:50:38. > :50:41.is finding a replacement and a new chairman and I want them to be the

:50:42. > :50:49.best person for the job. That will take up quite some of my time. Is

:50:50. > :50:53.the trust, you think it should stay? That is a very important decision

:50:54. > :50:58.and it is something we should look at with the charter review. There is

:50:59. > :51:05.a charter that sets out how the BBC works, ten year charter. I will not

:51:06. > :51:09.start that charter review until after the election because I think

:51:10. > :51:14.it is right to start when we have the new chairman. I want to gauge

:51:15. > :51:20.your own instincts because clearly it is hugely controversial, lots of

:51:21. > :51:28.newspapers would like to see the BBC disappear. Others say it is a longer

:51:29. > :51:32.time for the licence fee. Even the Labour Party is talking about that.

:51:33. > :51:37.What about the licensee? One thing we already did when we came to

:51:38. > :51:43.government is we worked with the BBC to freeze the licensee and I still

:51:44. > :51:51.think it is a large amount for many families. It is too high? No, I

:51:52. > :51:57.think this needs to be looked at when you have the charter review but

:51:58. > :52:03.another point is since the last review, technology has changed. The

:52:04. > :52:10.number of people who consume platforms like online, even the

:52:11. > :52:14.iPlayer, so that as being a very big change and that if needs to take all

:52:15. > :52:20.of this into account. Have you seen an alternative funding method?

:52:21. > :52:23.Freckly, I have not looked at that because we have not started this

:52:24. > :52:29.review but I think all of these issues should be looked at and

:52:30. > :52:34.nothing should be ruled out. What position do you take on the argument

:52:35. > :52:39.between London and the Metropolitan theatres and galleries? The Opera

:52:40. > :52:44.house and those bigger institutions take a disproportionate share of the

:52:45. > :52:50.Getty? London is strangling the arts in many other areas? I am very proud

:52:51. > :52:54.of this sector and London is a powerhouse not just for our own

:52:55. > :52:59.country but globally, it is a very vague exporter. But I do understand

:53:00. > :53:04.that argument and when I made a speech on this issue, not just

:53:05. > :53:07.talking about regions and fair distribution but also getting more

:53:08. > :53:11.people from all backgrounds participating in culture. This is

:53:12. > :53:17.one of the things I wanted to look at. What I have found is it is

:53:18. > :53:17.improving, a lot of the government that the

:53:18. > :53:21.at. What I have found is it is improving, a lot government provides

:53:22. > :53:28.goes through the Arts Council and, historically, it was about 70%, 60%

:53:29. > :53:33.to the regions and it is not about 70%. But I want to see what can be

:53:34. > :53:41.done. Looking across the broad sweep of the department, where are things

:53:42. > :53:47.not going as well? One thing I would say is not banned. My department is

:53:48. > :53:54.responsible for that run out and coverage and that is something we

:53:55. > :53:56.have made huge progress on, in terms of superfast broadband with better

:53:57. > :54:03.coverage than almost any other European country. But we can do

:54:04. > :54:07.more, and in my own constituency, it is semi-rural, there are still many

:54:08. > :54:16.people who do not have her fact broadband coverage. -- perfect. What

:54:17. > :54:24.about extremism in schools? David Cameron says people must be more

:54:25. > :54:28.British. Is a problem of not just terrorism but conservative Islam,

:54:29. > :54:33.saying we want to cut ourselves off from the rest of the community and

:54:34. > :54:38.we want security of belief? That is a serious issue and we have seen

:54:39. > :54:45.that with enquiries in the schools in Birmingham and those results from

:54:46. > :54:50.Ofsted. It is important to point out that the vast majority of British

:54:51. > :54:58.Muslim 's are hugely important in the community and play the same role

:54:59. > :55:14.as everybody else. -- Muslim cleric. -- Muslim cleric. They can have a

:55:15. > :55:19.very big impact. -- Muslims. As a man from a Muslim background, how do

:55:20. > :55:26.you react to language like draining the swamp? You can use all sorts of

:55:27. > :55:33.language but everybody recognises the issue. The Prime Minister has

:55:34. > :55:36.talked about taking a more muscular attitude to promoting British

:55:37. > :55:41.values, something I have long thought we should be doing. That is

:55:42. > :55:45.very important. And I look forward to doing that. Thank you.

:55:46. > :55:48.Now over to Sian for the news headlines.

:55:49. > :55:51.The former Prime Minister Tony Blair has told this programme that

:55:52. > :55:53.the West must be prepared to intervene in Iraq to prevent

:55:54. > :55:56.He said the situation was desperately

:55:57. > :55:58.serious and if not checked, would have repercussions for Britain.

:55:59. > :56:01.Speaking from Abu Dhabi, he said President Obama was right

:56:02. > :56:08.to consider all options, including air strikes and the use of drones.

:56:09. > :56:13.We have to look at Syria and Iraq and the region in context and we

:56:14. > :56:19.must understand what is going on and we have to engage and that does not

:56:20. > :56:23.mean engagement with ground troops but it does mean that we actively

:56:24. > :56:27.shape this situation with allies in the region and I do not believe that

:56:28. > :56:30.if we just wash our hands and walk away, the problems will be solved.

:56:31. > :56:38.First, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.

:56:39. > :56:49.Join us live from Brighton, and Cameron announces British values and

:56:50. > :57:03.we ask, should the British stop tolerating intolerance? -- David

:57:04. > :57:09.Cameron. John Simpson has arrived in the Iraqi capital. What is the

:57:10. > :57:16.atmosphere there? Does it feel entrenched? It feels like a very

:57:17. > :57:21.nervous place, yes. By pure chance, I did and then to a government

:57:22. > :57:26.minister that I know and he said that last week, last Thursday, the

:57:27. > :57:29.government was in a state of utter panic and people were finding it

:57:30. > :57:34.difficult even to speak to each other and put sentences together to

:57:35. > :57:40.know what to do about this. But he said that has calmed things down and

:57:41. > :57:48.this increase in the number of people coming forward, volunteering

:57:49. > :57:53.to fight, it has its own problems because they are fighters and that

:57:54. > :58:00.could lead to other problems later on. It has calmed down a lot of the

:58:01. > :58:04.nerves for the moment. Tony Blair spoke earlier on, urging aerial

:58:05. > :58:12.western intervention. Air attacks in Syria and in Iraq as well. How

:58:13. > :58:17.helpful to you think that has been? -- do you think. I expect he will be

:58:18. > :58:21.quite grateful for the government. What they most of all want is some

:58:22. > :58:26.sign that they are not just in this on their own and with drones and

:58:27. > :58:34.bombing and so on, that is a way of doing that. It is not the answer. It

:58:35. > :58:38.is not the answer at all. It is just a tactic, it temporarily tactic and

:58:39. > :58:42.it could go terribly wrong, as it did in Afghanistan. But it is

:58:43. > :58:45.something they could do. Thank you very much.

:58:46. > :58:47.That's all we have time for, thanks to all my guests.

:58:48. > :58:50.Do join me again at the same time next week,

:58:51. > :58:52.when I'll be talking to the Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna,

:58:53. > :58:54.Nicola Benedetti and the inimitable nonagenerian, Baroness Trumpington.

:58:55. > :59:31.We are about to find out whether they can cook.

:59:32. > :59:35.You're going to love it. Smashed it. Yum-yum-yum.