:00:33. > :00:37.Good morning from Birmingham, the heart of England,
:00:38. > :00:40.where the Conservative Party is holding its annual conference.
:00:41. > :00:44.It is a party with one fewer member now of
:00:45. > :00:46.course, following the defection of a second MP, Mark Reckless, to UKIP.
:00:47. > :00:50.And we have the entirely traditional spectacle of a minor sex scandal
:00:51. > :00:54.and the departure of the minister for civil society, Brooks Newmark.
:00:55. > :00:57.Deeply irritating for David Cameron, but of course,
:00:58. > :01:01.he's got rather bigger things on his mind this morning, as RAF
:01:02. > :01:07.Will this war go any better than the last one?
:01:08. > :01:10.And joining me today for our review of the Sunday newspapers, crammed
:01:11. > :01:14.with politics, two sober heads to help chart us through it all -
:01:15. > :01:17.the director of the human rights group Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti.
:01:18. > :01:21.And the Mail on Sunday's contributing editor, Ian Birrell.
:01:22. > :01:24.No-one ever said it was easy being Prime Minister.
:01:25. > :01:26.David Cameron leads a Conservative Party visibly fraying
:01:27. > :01:29.at the edges over Europe, still burdened with huge and
:01:30. > :01:34.His government, after this week's emergency recall of Parliament,
:01:35. > :01:38.has joined the coalition against one of the most barbarous but slippery
:01:39. > :01:46.And if all that wasn't enough, he has failed to amuse the monarch,
:01:47. > :01:49.after revealing that she purred with pleasure over the Scottish
:01:50. > :01:55.You need resilience and sticking power to succeed as PM,
:01:56. > :02:08.But I've also been joined by Nigel Farage, the UKIP leader, gloating
:02:09. > :02:10.after the defection of a second Conservative MP - and that means
:02:11. > :02:17.He tells us about taxes on luxury shoes and cars,
:02:18. > :02:20.and how he is parking his tanks on Labour's lawn as well.
:02:21. > :02:26.And we've got some music to match, from a man who grew up wanting to
:02:27. > :02:30.be Elvis Presley but who sounds more like one of the tougher bits
:02:31. > :02:34.from the Bible - the very great Nick Cave, on something we are all
:02:35. > :02:41.Quite an hour ahead, but first, the news, with Sian Lloyd.
:02:42. > :02:44.The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that
:02:45. > :02:46.RAF Tornados continue to fly over Iraq, gathering intelligence
:02:47. > :02:51.Yesterday, two jets carried out armed reconnaissance operations but
:02:52. > :02:57.The Pentagon says US jets have made strikes on the Syrian city of Raqqa,
:02:58. > :02:59.as well as IS positions near the Turkish border,
:03:00. > :03:07.Two RAF Tornado bombers returning to their base at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus
:03:08. > :03:13.yesterday after a seven-hour mission over Iraq.
:03:14. > :03:16.Their weapons were still on board, they had not fired in anger.
:03:17. > :03:20.No targets of opportunity had been found.
:03:21. > :03:23.But the MoD said their very presence in the skies
:03:24. > :03:26.over Iraq would have had a deterrent effect on Islamic State, forcing the
:03:27. > :03:33.The Tornados were followed soon after by a Voyager
:03:34. > :03:41.The RAF has had six fighter-bombers based in Cyprus since mid-August,
:03:42. > :03:43.but until yesterday, they were restricted to
:03:44. > :03:50.Two more planes took off last night, but the MoD said it would not give a
:03:51. > :03:54.running commentary on every mission, simply saying that the aircraft
:03:55. > :03:58.would be used in attack roles when appropriate targets were identified.
:03:59. > :04:02.David Cameron has said there will not be British boots on the ground
:04:03. > :04:06.in Iraq, but the effectiveness of air power alone has been questioned.
:04:07. > :04:11.Lord Richards, a former Chief of the Defence Staff, said the only way
:04:12. > :04:15.to defeat Islamic State was to take back the land they were occupying,
:04:16. > :04:20.and that meant using Western armies, not just local forces.
:04:21. > :04:24.This is video of an American air strike on an Islamic State compound
:04:25. > :04:31.near the besieged Kurdish town of Kobani in northern Syria.
:04:32. > :04:36.The use of Britain?s airpower is much more modest and confined at the
:04:37. > :04:39.moment to Iraq, but there are likely to be many more missions like this.
:04:40. > :04:50.David Cameron has said Britain is committed for the long-term.
:04:51. > :04:54.Police say they are continuing to examine footage from hundreds
:04:55. > :04:56.of CCTV cameras as part of efforts to find
:04:57. > :05:02.A search of scrubland near the Grand Union Canal in west London,
:05:03. > :05:06.where the 14-year-old was last seen five weeks ago, will also resume.
:05:07. > :05:09.Yellow ribbons have been attached to railings and homes
:05:10. > :05:12.across west London in a show of support for the search.
:05:13. > :05:15.Today, runners competing in a half marathon
:05:16. > :05:22.The Bishop of Arundel and Brighton has resigned,
:05:23. > :05:26.saying he has brought "shame" on his diocese and the Catholic church.
:05:27. > :05:29.The Right Reverend Kieran Conry said he had been "unfaithful"
:05:30. > :05:33.to his promises as a priest, but he said his actions were not illegal
:05:34. > :05:38.He has stood down from his post with immediate effect
:05:39. > :05:41.and says he will now take time to consider his future.
:05:42. > :05:44.A Christian woman who was spared a death sentence in Sudan
:05:45. > :05:47.after refusing to convert to Islam has said she plans to one day return
:05:48. > :05:52.Mariam Ibrahim gave birth to a daughter while in prison.
:05:53. > :05:54.She is currently in the United States seeking asylum.
:05:55. > :05:57.Last night, she received an award for her courage at a conservative
:05:58. > :06:04.George Clooney, the actor famous for his bachelor
:06:05. > :06:08.lifestyle, has finally tied the knot with his British fiancee.
:06:09. > :06:12.The Hollywood star's agent has confirmed that he has married
:06:13. > :06:15.the human rights lawyer Amal Alamuddin in a ceremony
:06:16. > :06:21.Celebrity guests at the wedding included the model Cindy
:06:22. > :06:30.I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.
:06:31. > :06:47.I think it is fair to say that if David Cameron had the chance, he
:06:48. > :06:52.would not have chosen the Sunday Telegraph to lead on. And the paper
:06:53. > :07:01.responsible for the sex story is the Sunday Mirror. If you want to know
:07:02. > :07:07.more, don't ask. The Sunday times has the same story, but also, the
:07:08. > :07:14.much more important story - bombing jihadis is futile, says top general,
:07:15. > :07:22.and that is General Richards. The Observer - UKIP defection causing
:07:23. > :07:31.Tory chaos. Perhaps a little bit over the top, but nonetheless. A
:07:32. > :07:38.conjugated one in the Independent on Sunday - how do we get out? As
:07:39. > :07:44.palmist, Ian Birrell and Shami Chakrabarti join us now. Can you get
:07:45. > :07:49.us started with the air strikes story? I do think this is really
:07:50. > :07:55.important. It is the front page of the Sunday times, but inside, we
:07:56. > :07:58.have an interview which has been conducted by the Great War
:07:59. > :08:03.correspondent Christina Lambert, with General Lord Richards, who was
:08:04. > :08:07.the head of the military. He has been involved in every major
:08:08. > :08:12.conflict that Britain has been engaged in for many years. His
:08:13. > :08:16.interview suggests an element of naivete, I think, on the part of our
:08:17. > :08:20.parliamentarians, for thinking that this can be just a few air strikes,
:08:21. > :08:25.and perhaps dealt with fairly clinically and fairly quickly. We
:08:26. > :08:31.will not beat them with air strikes, he says. This is not just a
:08:32. > :08:36.terrorist organisation, this is not just a few drones in Pakistan, this
:08:37. > :08:39.is serious war, you need boots on the ground, it is a long-term
:08:40. > :08:45.commitment to. And I would like to hear what the Prime Minister says
:08:46. > :08:50.about this. One of the points he is making is that you cannot simply
:08:51. > :08:53.fight the war in one country. It is a border which ISIL refuses to
:08:54. > :08:59.recognise, so they just move over into Syria. And you have chosen the
:09:00. > :09:03.Observer? This is one of the issues - how will it work, is it just a
:09:04. > :09:09.political gesture, really, Britain being there? It is just six planes,
:09:10. > :09:14.fewer than Denmark. There is a fig leaf element to it. I feel
:09:15. > :09:20.conflicted about it. I was in Kurdistan at the time the Americans
:09:21. > :09:23.started bombing. There was no doubt that ISIS was doing very well, the
:09:24. > :09:29.Peshmerga were already in a very weak state, and the bombings shored
:09:30. > :09:33.up their defences. Equally, it is very hard to see where this goes.
:09:34. > :09:39.You will not defeat them like this. There is all sorts of politics going
:09:40. > :09:48.on on the ground. Are we just getting pulled into a mess in the
:09:49. > :09:51.region once again? It was a very good debate in the House of Commons,
:09:52. > :09:56.but it is very much, are we sure what we are doing next, that is the
:09:57. > :09:59.toll of the papers, is that fair to say? Yes, I think everyone is saying
:10:00. > :10:06.the same thing, which is, what is the strategy? It is the ethical
:10:07. > :10:12.difficulty, but also the practical difficulty - are we going to make
:10:13. > :10:16.things better or worse? This one shows the regional issues. And there
:10:17. > :10:21.is this mess over foreign policy, that we are now in bed with all
:10:22. > :10:26.sorts of partners, Saudi Arabia, which beheads people for sorcery,
:10:27. > :10:29.unlike ISIS, which beheads foreign journalists, and which has been
:10:30. > :10:33.exporting an extreme form of Islam all over the world. We are in bed
:10:34. > :10:40.with Qatar, which has been backing Islamists in Libya. And really, we
:10:41. > :10:45.are helping President Assad with this. We are in bed with Egypt,
:10:46. > :10:50.backing a ruler who is worse than the guy whose downfall we supported.
:10:51. > :10:55.It is a complete mess. You wonder what the Foreign Office has been
:10:56. > :11:00.doing all of this time. Their job is to give clear priorities to number
:11:01. > :11:05.10 Downing Street. Yet again, I find myself, yes, I am torn about the
:11:06. > :11:07.conflict, but I also feel that human rights abuses are always a
:11:08. > :11:12.justification for military intervention over there, but never
:11:13. > :11:18.refugee protection over here, when they turn up on our doorstep. And
:11:19. > :11:23.Syria, seeing those refugees pouring over the border, and how many has
:11:24. > :11:29.Britain taken? It was 43 at the end of June, for all our fine talk. And
:11:30. > :11:33.this is not what you expect from the Sunday Telegraph on the first day of
:11:34. > :11:39.the Conservative Party conference. Did somebody tweak something about,
:11:40. > :11:46.to lose one minister is unfortunate, but to lose two is reckless?! I
:11:47. > :11:54.think thousands of people tweeted that! Of course, Mark Reckless has
:11:55. > :12:01.rather flamboyantly defected to UKIP. Whether this is a real
:12:02. > :12:04.crisis... A minister behaves inappropriately on the internet, is
:12:05. > :12:09.that really a party scandal, I do not understand? It is just a ripple
:12:10. > :12:13.at the start of the Tory party conference. But it is not the
:12:14. > :12:20.serious issue, which is the split in the party, and the debate over what
:12:21. > :12:24.to do about UKIP. It is like the John Major government, something is
:12:25. > :12:30.not right, the party is splintering? It does feel a bit familiar, to
:12:31. > :12:33.those of us of a certain age. Speaking of which, a young human
:12:34. > :12:41.rights lawyer is apparently marrying a middle-aged actor. And this is
:12:42. > :12:44.dominating lots of newspapers, as you can imagine. But more seriously,
:12:45. > :12:51.I know that you have heard George Clooney on your programme before, so
:12:52. > :12:56.you have more of a sense of the man. I do not know what people would
:12:57. > :13:02.think of this coverage. George Clooney is a highly serious guy,
:13:03. > :13:04.from a journalistic background. Beautiful photographs from Venice.
:13:05. > :13:08.There are not many stories this morning to cheer us up, and I guess
:13:09. > :13:12.this is one of them. I am not sure what he would think about the amount
:13:13. > :13:16.of coverage he is getting this morning. On the other hand, if you
:13:17. > :13:23.closed down Venice and invited Matt Damon and all your mates, then you
:13:24. > :13:28.will get a lot of coverage. Moving swiftly on, David Davies, who fought
:13:29. > :13:31.David Cameron for the leadership, has produced a withering, full on
:13:32. > :13:37.attack on modernisation generally, saying it has been a disaster. It is
:13:38. > :13:41.very interesting, this piece. It is really his most full-blooded attack
:13:42. > :13:47.on modernisation. In it, he is giving David Cameron and the Tory
:13:48. > :13:52.party both barrels. They are saying that it was all wrong what they
:13:53. > :13:55.did, it has not worked etc. I would argue it is a misinformed piece,
:13:56. > :13:59.because he says the voters see David Cameron as being to the left of
:14:00. > :14:07.them, whereas actually, Conservative voters see him as being to the right
:14:08. > :14:10.of them, as surveys have shown. The problem I would argue is that
:14:11. > :14:13.modernisation did not go nearly far enough, and the problem is that they
:14:14. > :14:19.have gone too far on to UKIP territory. You were a speech writer
:14:20. > :14:22.for David Cameron, way back in the day that he was in opposition. But
:14:23. > :14:27.in terms of votes, the Conservative Party have not been doing very well,
:14:28. > :14:31.and in terms of the struck shall make up of the party, it is
:14:32. > :14:35.splintering? I think the problem is that they have shifted too much on
:14:36. > :14:39.to UKIP territory. UKIP is not really about Europe, it is not
:14:40. > :14:42.really about immigration, it is about a disconnect. And when you
:14:43. > :14:46.coming to office saying one thing, and then you shift ground
:14:47. > :14:50.substantially on issues like Europe etc, then it gives voters one more
:14:51. > :14:54.cause for concern, and actually, it helps UKIP. I would argue that by
:14:55. > :15:00.making these shifts and these lurches, it is not helping. Again
:15:01. > :15:04.and again, people say they want authenticity in politics. They want
:15:05. > :15:07.the politician, whether they agree with them or not, to stick to his or
:15:08. > :15:26.her guns. Let's move onto another story,
:15:27. > :15:35.vloggers, who are storming up the book charts. I don't think you
:15:36. > :15:46.should be grumpy about this. This is a phenomenon about video bloggers,
:15:47. > :15:52.aspiring journalists effectively, doing video blogs aspired to by
:15:53. > :15:58.thousands, sometimes millions of people. And slightly more
:15:59. > :16:02.libertarian, less consensual when it comes to politics. I think that's
:16:03. > :16:07.right, but they are speaking about all sorts of things their audience
:16:08. > :16:12.are interested in. I don't know what their consensus is on the war for
:16:13. > :16:17.example. I think it is nice, because it is about democratising, more
:16:18. > :16:21.people getting a voice. Yes, but it seems that some of them are actually
:16:22. > :16:26.taking this very seriously and making a go of it commercially. And
:16:27. > :16:30.now producing books going up the book charts. There was once a
:16:31. > :16:44.well-known philosopher, called John Stuart Mill, and he has now been
:16:45. > :16:50.scooped by yourself. I have written a book about working at Limited
:16:51. > :16:59.since 9/11, since the beginning of the war on terror, we now seem to be
:17:00. > :17:05.in the war on terror two. Ian, you have just come back, we may think
:17:06. > :17:18.Britain is in a difficult state, from a country in a really difficult
:17:19. > :17:27.state, from Liberia suffering with Ebola. Yes, I noticed you moved away
:17:28. > :17:31.from the! Everybody gets checked for their temperature when they go into
:17:32. > :17:35.supermarkets, they are not touching each other. One man told me he had
:17:36. > :17:39.not touched his children for three months because they are so scared of
:17:40. > :17:49.transmitting the disease. It is totally out of control despite best
:17:50. > :17:54.efforts. The numbers... More and more people are being infected.
:17:55. > :18:05.Reading your report, it reminds me of Daniel Defoe's London In The
:18:06. > :18:09.Plague Year. The worst-case scenario predicts one in ten people in
:18:10. > :18:13.Liberia could be hit with this disease. It is appalling what is
:18:14. > :18:21.going on and I don't think the world has begun to get to grips with it,
:18:22. > :18:24.or assist. There is talk of the economy collapsing, and even
:18:25. > :18:33.conflict being restarted because of the chaos engendered by this. Very
:18:34. > :18:39.alarming. Shami it is shocking how quickly Scotland has dropped off the
:18:40. > :18:44.front pages after the no vote. Yes, it is Iraq again this week, I think
:18:45. > :18:49.we need to have a slightly longer attention span if we can. I am going
:18:50. > :19:00.to start paying more attention to this paper in the future, the
:19:01. > :19:04.Scotland on Sunday. Inside, on pages six and seven, we have photographs
:19:05. > :19:10.of the three likely leaders of the main parties in Scotland, all women,
:19:11. > :19:14.and a suggestion that a group of MSP 's are uniting around the idea that
:19:15. > :19:20.in the new settlement, the reformed settlement, there should be 50-50
:19:21. > :19:24.men and women in the Scottish Parliament. I think this could be
:19:25. > :19:29.really exciting and it could be a model that people get excited about
:19:30. > :19:34.in England and elsewhere. Absolutely. Before we go, this is a
:19:35. > :19:37.policy conference as well, and the big announcement this morning is
:19:38. > :19:42.about apprentices and cutting welfare benefits to pay for them.
:19:43. > :19:48.David Cameron talks about this in an interview he did with the Sunday
:19:49. > :19:54.Times, in which he also talks about Scotland. He said he would have
:19:55. > :20:00.resigned if they won the vote. He says that now! He is talking about
:20:01. > :20:04.benefits and trying to cap them, and shift some of that money towards
:20:05. > :20:09.apprenticeships. It is interesting that the issues we are hearing under
:20:10. > :20:12.the new look Tory party is immigration and benefits, both of
:20:13. > :20:20.which are seemingly popular with the public. So you think it is moving to
:20:21. > :20:24.the right? No, it has moved to the right and that is seen in voters'
:20:25. > :20:31.perceptions of the party and the Prime Minister. It is not that the
:20:32. > :20:34.issues themselves may be unpopular, it is that when you talk about them
:20:35. > :20:39.to the exclusion of other issues, the voters think you are less
:20:40. > :20:46.compassionate. The language on benefits has been very hard line.
:20:47. > :20:53.Ian Birrell and Shami Chakrabarti, thank you.
:20:54. > :20:56.We're promised a return of summer this week, and it's a lovely bright
:20:57. > :20:59.morning here in Birmingham. With the picture around the country, over to
:21:00. > :21:02.Sarah Keith-Lucas in the weather studio.
:21:03. > :21:07.Much of September has felt more like some of September has felt more like
:21:08. > :21:12.summer than autumn. Not everywhere will be staying dry, but these
:21:13. > :21:18.weather fronts will only be pushing slowly south. In Gleneagles and the
:21:19. > :21:21.final day of the Ryder Cup, there will be a south-westerly breeze but
:21:22. > :21:31.it will be remaining predominantly dry. Across England and Wales, dry
:21:32. > :21:34.and fine, plenty of decent spells of sunshine to be enjoyed for the rest
:21:35. > :21:40.of the day, lifting temperatures nicely to around 24 degrees in
:21:41. > :21:43.London. As we had through this evening and overnight, for Scotland
:21:44. > :21:48.and Northern Ireland it remains fairly cloudy with a few outbreaks
:21:49. > :21:53.of rain. There could be dense fog patches forming as we had through
:21:54. > :21:57.the early hours of Monday morning. Frost free overnight. During the day
:21:58. > :22:00.we still have the mist and fog around in the morning, that should
:22:01. > :22:05.clear away pretty quickly, and it will be a day of sunny spells but
:22:06. > :22:11.there could be some isolated heavy showers. Temperatures up to 21
:22:12. > :22:12.degrees, so looking pretty pleasant for the next few days and in fact
:22:13. > :22:19.the week ahead. After the former Conservative
:22:20. > :22:21.backbencher Douglas Carswell rather sensationally defected to UKIP last
:22:22. > :22:24.month, there were rumours And yesterday Nigel Farage pulled
:22:25. > :22:27.another Tory rabbit out of his The big reveal took place at UKIP's
:22:28. > :22:31.conference in Doncaster, where the party also discussed new
:22:32. > :22:34.policy ideas, although not all of them survived the weekend,
:22:35. > :22:37.as you'll see in a moment. But when I spoke to the UKIP leader
:22:38. > :22:52.last night, I began by asking him if We will have to see, won't we? There
:22:53. > :22:56.is a great deal of disenchantment with the Conservative Party, but
:22:57. > :23:00.don't underestimate the fact there are Labour backbenchers thinking
:23:01. > :23:04.about this as well. Are you saying therefore that you expect defections
:23:05. > :23:08.from the Labour Party and more defections from the Conservative
:23:09. > :23:11.Party? I'm saying there is a widespread feeling that the
:23:12. > :23:18.political leaderships of Labour, Lib Dem and Conservative are becoming so
:23:19. > :23:22.hopelessly out of touch with opinions in MPs' constituencies that
:23:23. > :23:29.it wouldn't surprise me if we saw more defections. I was looking at
:23:30. > :23:33.Mark Reckless's speech, and he said the country was overregulated and
:23:34. > :23:38.overtaxed. In that context I would like to ask you about the proposal
:23:39. > :23:43.of yours to put 25% VAT on a range of what you call luxury goods. Have
:23:44. > :23:49.you worked out how this will be done? I am personally very happy to
:23:50. > :23:54.give freedom to our spokesmen and women to float ideas but while I am
:23:55. > :23:58.leader that will not be in our manifesto. This is the fastest
:23:59. > :24:03.U-turn we have heard. Is that no longer a policy? It was put forward
:24:04. > :24:09.as something that should be investigated. What was put forward
:24:10. > :24:14.as a policy was the idea that no tax should be put on the minimum wage.
:24:15. > :24:19.What was put forward was the idea that nurses, experienced nurses, now
:24:20. > :24:25.paying 40p tax is ridiculous and they should be taken out of it. The
:24:26. > :24:31.much touted 25p luxury VAT is dead as far as you are concerned? Yes, it
:24:32. > :24:36.was a discussion point yesterday, it isn't going to happen. You made a
:24:37. > :24:40.great point of saying UKIP now turned its tanks in both directions,
:24:41. > :24:43.on Labour and the Conservatives, that means you have to win this
:24:44. > :24:48.forthcoming by-election to show that is more than just words. If we did
:24:49. > :24:54.win the Hayward and Middleton by-election you would then say we
:24:55. > :24:58.are seeing one of the biggest swings in post-1945 politics in this
:24:59. > :25:03.country. We start this election a long way behind but I am confident
:25:04. > :25:06.we will give the Labour Party a run for their money. If this is a
:25:07. > :25:10.populist revolution of the kind you were describing, you compared it
:25:11. > :25:15.with what is happening in Scotland, then we should seek an earthquake
:25:16. > :25:19.happening up their too? I don't know, neither do you. Something
:25:20. > :25:23.remarkable is happening in British politics but I am not going to stand
:25:24. > :25:27.here predicting we will win that by-election, but I will predict we
:25:28. > :25:31.will give Labour a run for their money. You said yourself if you were
:25:32. > :25:36.a young guy in Spain or Portugal, you would probably come here, but
:25:37. > :25:43.what do say too many big businesses that say Britain has big growth,
:25:44. > :25:47.partly based on a huge supply of skilled, hard-working, educated and
:25:48. > :25:54.dedicated people coming to work here and that by closing the door you
:25:55. > :25:57.imperil our growth? The point we are making and the point that is
:25:58. > :26:00.resonating with voters in a big way across this country is that you
:26:01. > :26:04.cannot choose the numbers of people coming to the country all the while
:26:05. > :26:09.you are members of the European Union, and all the while the British
:26:10. > :26:15.passport is extended to nearly half a billion people. I am still unclear
:26:16. > :26:18.as to whether your hostility is cultural or economic. If you are
:26:19. > :26:22.persuaded that Britain's economic growth at the moment required a high
:26:23. > :26:26.level of immigration than you would like, would you be in favour of it
:26:27. > :26:30.all would you still say it is against the interests of
:26:31. > :26:34.British-born workers and therefore I want to stop immigration? The duty
:26:35. > :26:55.of government is to look after the country and its people. I think the
:26:56. > :26:58.integrity of our communities, our society, the opportunity we give
:26:59. > :27:00.young people to get on, the opportunity we give working age
:27:01. > :27:04.people to earn a decent living, I think they matter more than a couple
:27:05. > :27:07.of peps up on GDP figures over the next decade. There are some things
:27:08. > :27:11.in life that are more important than just money. Can I ask you about your
:27:12. > :27:14.hostility to what is going on at the moment over the skies of Iraq and
:27:15. > :27:18.Syria. What is your message to the RAF pilots now the decision has been
:27:19. > :27:21.taken? You say we are hostile and by asking the question in that way you
:27:22. > :27:24.are saying somehow there is an aggression about UKIP and there
:27:25. > :27:27.isn't. I am not going to be drawn in to appearing disloyal towards the
:27:28. > :27:31.British services. But there are some wars that are sensible and some are
:27:32. > :27:36.not, and in the last 15 years we have engaged in a series of wars
:27:37. > :27:39.that have not been in our national interests and have left our
:27:40. > :27:44.countries that we were supposed to be helping in a worse condition. So,
:27:45. > :27:49.to be absolutely clear, you are saying there are just wars and
:27:50. > :27:54.unjust wars, do you regard this as on just? I don't believe they have
:27:55. > :28:00.thought about the endgame of this. I don't think a war can be won by
:28:01. > :28:04.bombing alone. If we are serious, we need a regional approach, several
:28:05. > :28:11.governments involved, lots of boots on the ground provided by Arab
:28:12. > :28:14.states and African states, and if we were serious about it, I would not
:28:15. > :28:18.object to the British taking part and offering expertise. What was
:28:19. > :28:27.proposed in the House of Commons does not pass for me any of those
:28:28. > :28:33.tests. Thank you for joining us. Nick Cave is many things, a, a poet
:28:34. > :28:39.and novelist, now the acclaimed star of a that focuses on the Bad Seeds
:28:40. > :28:43.front man and his journey. 20,000 Days On Earth gets its title from
:28:44. > :28:53.the life span of Nick Cave so far. He is 57 and a cultural icon. The
:28:54. > :28:57.film features Ray Winstone and Kylie Minogue in cameo parts. When we met
:28:58. > :29:02.up, Nick Cave gave me his take on the bittersweet nature of telling
:29:03. > :29:06.stories through songs. It is a curse, to be honest, the whole
:29:07. > :29:13.narrative songwriting thing. It is not the kind of songs I listen to or
:29:14. > :29:17.that I like to listen to. I am much more inclined to listen to music
:29:18. > :29:30.that seems to be ripped out of the hat in some way. James Brown or
:29:31. > :29:35.something like that. With a yeah and a whoa. There is nothing worse than
:29:36. > :29:57.having to listen to a story. # Look at me now... We see you in
:29:58. > :30:01.the film with your children, eating pizza in front of the television,
:30:02. > :30:07.with your wife. You have clearly got a very good marriage, but in some
:30:08. > :30:10.respects, it is more of a kind of humdrum, ordinary experience, and
:30:11. > :30:15.the kind of moralistic darkness which some of the would suggest. The
:30:16. > :30:19.performance of the songs is possibly like that, but what the songs are
:30:20. > :30:24.about is actually something more humane, or more human. In the world
:30:25. > :30:28.of your songs, it is more important that there is a devil, and that
:30:29. > :30:37.there is sin, and there is judgment and forgiveness, and that there is a
:30:38. > :30:40.God. That sounds a little harsh! I think the songs are a little more
:30:41. > :30:46.subtle than that these days, to be honest. For sure, there is a kind of
:30:47. > :30:51.old Testament rancour about some of the earlier stuff, but I think these
:30:52. > :30:58.days, it is a little more... In recent years, you have split your
:30:59. > :31:01.songwriting and performing personality into two bands, The Bad
:31:02. > :31:23.Seeds, and the other one. In the film, we see you with many of
:31:24. > :31:27.your celebrity friends - are you playing a game with the audience at
:31:28. > :31:32.that point, talking about your glamorous life? I do not think I am
:31:33. > :31:38.hanging out with my celebrity friends. First of all, I do not hang
:31:39. > :31:45.out in that way with celebrities. But there are moments when they
:31:46. > :31:54.appear, magically, in the car with me. It is Ray Winstone and Kylie
:31:55. > :31:58.Minogue. You were like this kind of missed that rolled in, because I
:31:59. > :32:03.knew about you, and I had heard about your desire to do this song.
:32:04. > :32:08.And then I saw you perform live with The Bad Seeds, and it was, like, and
:32:09. > :32:11.the performance was just electrifying, and your body
:32:12. > :32:17.language, you were like this, like a tree. If the younger and Nick cave
:32:18. > :32:21.was looking at the Nick Cave of today, he might say, you are living
:32:22. > :32:26.a much more comfortable life than I would have expected, and a much
:32:27. > :32:34.happier life? Well, I was always pretty happy. Were you?! Yes! There
:32:35. > :32:38.is a kind of myth which exists around a particular lifestyle,
:32:39. > :32:42.meaning you have to be a particular character. I do not think that is
:32:43. > :32:48.true. To be honest, I would not have a clue what the younger Nick Cave
:32:49. > :32:52.would think about the older one. You have been going into film music
:32:53. > :32:56.more, you have created the other group, I am just wondering, what
:32:57. > :33:00.extent will you think, I need to tear everything up again? I think as
:33:01. > :33:05.soon as something becomes... I am very suspicious about success. The
:33:06. > :33:10.last record did really well, it was a really good record, I think, on
:33:11. > :33:14.many different levels, but certainly, we feel it is a really
:33:15. > :33:21.strong record. It is a really strong Bad Seeds record. And I immediately
:33:22. > :33:25.start getting nervous around that. That it is impossible to top it, or
:33:26. > :33:31.because you are getting smug about it? It is so easy to sit back and
:33:32. > :33:35.wide that for a while. There is a lot of discussion of other artists
:33:36. > :33:41.in the film - of all of the great recording artists, Jerry Lee Lewis,
:33:42. > :33:47.Nina Simone, who is the person who you would like to wake up in the
:33:48. > :33:57.middle of their concert? Alvis. He is still the ultimate hero? Yes.
:33:58. > :34:11.That is who I always wanted to be. Elvis Presley, without the quiff!
:34:12. > :34:14.Nick Cave, talking about his film 20,000 Days On Earth.
:34:15. > :34:17.And by my calculation, with just over 200 days till his own
:34:18. > :34:20.date with destiny at the next general election, I?m joined now by
:34:21. > :34:30.General Richards, like many people in the debate this week, have picked
:34:31. > :34:34.up on the fact that you cannot defeat ISIL, or whatever we call
:34:35. > :34:39.them, without pushing into Syria. It cannot just be done in Iraq alone,
:34:40. > :34:44.that is true, isn't it? It is true. We believe you do need troops on the
:34:45. > :34:48.ground, but they should be Iraqi troops, they should be Kurdish
:34:49. > :34:51.troops. We are part of a large, international coalition to degrade
:34:52. > :34:55.and Alton of the destroy this organisation, but it cannot be done
:34:56. > :34:59.unless the countries where this organisation has grown up play their
:35:00. > :35:03.part in destroying it. You told the House of Commons to things, you said
:35:04. > :35:09.you would not go into Syria without another motion, but you also said
:35:10. > :35:12.that you reserved the right to order attacks if there was some terrible
:35:13. > :35:20.humanitarian disaster which needed to be dealt with. If I still pushed
:35:21. > :35:24.into Syria, we could very quickly see a humanitarian crisis, so, is it
:35:25. > :35:28.the case that you could order the RAF into Syria without another
:35:29. > :35:33.vote? The point I was making applied to anywhere in the world. If as
:35:34. > :35:37.Prime Minister I feel there is a humanitarian disaster about to
:35:38. > :35:40.happen, which Britain, alone or with partners, could do something to a
:35:41. > :35:44.third, then it would be right to order that before going to the House
:35:45. > :35:49.of Commons, because there would not be time. Likewise, if there is some
:35:50. > :35:53.unique British interest, some hostage situation, where you had to
:35:54. > :35:56.order action very quickly, I would be prepared to do that first and
:35:57. > :36:00.explain to the House of Commons afterwards. I was trying to say to
:36:01. > :36:04.the House of Commons that it is important that this convention which
:36:05. > :36:08.has grown up about a vote before premeditated action, I believe that
:36:09. > :36:12.is right, but it does not necessarily mean that a government
:36:13. > :36:18.cannot act if there is an urgent situation. You have said a big
:36:19. > :36:19.crisis might emerge, this could happen tomorrow or next week in
:36:20. > :36:26.Syria... I am not trying to dodge happen tomorrow or next week in
:36:27. > :36:33.your question. If something happened anywhere in the world, that there
:36:34. > :36:34.was a need for urgent action to prevent a humanitarian crisis, or to
:36:35. > :36:37.protect a unique British interest, I prevent a humanitarian crisis, or to
:36:38. > :36:44.would be prepared to take action and explain afterwards. Now, one of the
:36:45. > :36:48.other things which was talked about, again in the General Richards
:36:49. > :36:52.interview, and also in the House of Commons, is
:36:53. > :36:55.interview, and also in the House of an army, they do not have barracks,
:36:56. > :36:59.they do not have columns of tanks, they sit inside the population,
:37:00. > :37:05.hiding themselves among civilians quite deliberately. Therefore an air
:37:06. > :37:09.campaign is bound to kill lots of civilians by accident. I do not
:37:10. > :37:14.accept that. There have been occasions when ISIL are out in the
:37:15. > :37:16.open, threatening Christian communities, Yazidi communities,
:37:17. > :37:23.other Muslim communities, and they can be struck and stops, which is
:37:24. > :37:27.exactly what has happened close to where the Kurdish lines are, and
:37:28. > :37:34.elsewhere. But if what you are saying is, we need, if you like, an
:37:35. > :37:38.uprising of the Sunni tribes, rejecting these extremists, saying,
:37:39. > :37:44.we want to be part of a democratic Iraq, then yes, of course, we do
:37:45. > :37:48.need that. Our strategy is not some simplistic, dropped a bomb from
:37:49. > :37:53.40,000ft, and think you can solve the problem - it isn't. This is one
:37:54. > :37:57.part of a comprehensive strategy to build an Iraq which has a
:37:58. > :38:02.democratic, inclusive government for everyone, and in time, Syria needs
:38:03. > :38:06.exactly the same thing. There are three possible armies involved on
:38:07. > :38:10.the ground, the Peshmerga, defending their own territory in Kurdistan,
:38:11. > :38:15.the Iraqi army, who have been frankly pretty useless so far and
:38:16. > :38:17.have run away most of the time, and there is the Free Syrian Army,
:38:18. > :38:24.which, as George Galloway said, barely exists. So who will these
:38:25. > :38:29.boots on the ground actually be? In Iraq and Syria, we need to build up
:38:30. > :38:31.the forces which are moderate, democratic and thoroughly stick. In
:38:32. > :38:36.Iraq we need an Iraqi government and Iraqi forces which represents the
:38:37. > :38:43.whole country. -- and thoroughly stick. In Syria, we need the
:38:44. > :38:48.legitimate forces in Syria. But it is going to take time for them to be
:38:49. > :38:56.built up as a counterpoint to the regime. But what is required in
:38:57. > :39:01.Syria. Our policy is not contradictory. The same thing is
:39:02. > :39:05.needed in Syria is in Iraq, which is a government which can represent all
:39:06. > :39:09.of the people. You need a transition in Syria from the brutal dictator
:39:10. > :39:12.Assad, whose action has helped to build up ISIL, and you need to
:39:13. > :39:19.replace it with a government which camera present all of its people.
:39:20. > :39:23.But the Army in Syria which can defeat ISIL, the only organised army
:39:24. > :39:27.really left standing is Assad's army, so are we on the point of
:39:28. > :39:32.having to do a deal with the devil, as it were? No, we are not. Assad is
:39:33. > :39:36.part of the problem, not the solution. His brutality against his
:39:37. > :39:39.own people's one of the things which has been a massive recruiting
:39:40. > :39:44.sergeant for ISIL. We need in Syria to build up the legitimate
:39:45. > :39:47.opposition, to have a transition in Syria from Assad to a new
:39:48. > :39:55.government, which can represent all of the people. Of course, that has
:39:56. > :39:59.to include Alawites, even prominent ones, so that Alawite, Sunni, all
:40:00. > :40:11.people's in Syria can feel they are part of the government. A missile
:40:12. > :40:17.can kill terrorists, but it is good governments which can kill -- good
:40:18. > :40:22.governments which can kill terrorism - that is our policy. What about the
:40:23. > :40:30.Iraqi army, we are giving them lots of new kit and advice, are there not
:40:31. > :40:36.already British boots on the ground? We already have, whether it
:40:37. > :40:40.is in Baghdad or in the Kurdish regional authority, we have people
:40:41. > :40:46.who are helping and advising and assisting, not in huge numbers. But
:40:47. > :40:51.if we are trying to build up these forces, then yes, of course, we need
:40:52. > :40:56.to help them. What I am not having is some British invading army of
:40:57. > :40:59.combat troops on the ground. We could have for instance special
:41:00. > :41:04.forces trying to get hostages out of terrible situations. We never
:41:05. > :41:08.comment on special forces. The hostage situation is an absolutely
:41:09. > :41:13.tragic one and we should do everything we can to help, and I
:41:14. > :41:18.lead those efforts personally. Your critics say, it starts with a power,
:41:19. > :41:28.without fivers, and then, like Vietnam, it escalates, you get
:41:29. > :41:37.sucked in. You do not know how deeply we are going to get drawn in.
:41:38. > :41:42.In a way, that is an argument for never doing anything. When you face
:41:43. > :41:47.a situation with psychopathic, terrorist killers who have already
:41:48. > :41:51.brutally beheaded one of our own citizens, who have already launched
:41:52. > :41:54.and tried to execute plots in our own country to kill and maim
:41:55. > :42:00.innocent people, we can either stand back from all of this, as Galloway
:42:01. > :42:04.and others would say, and say, this is too complicated, or we take the
:42:05. > :42:07.correct decision, to say, let's have a full, comprehensive strategy,
:42:08. > :42:13.let's be prepared to play our role to make sure these people cannot do
:42:14. > :42:17.us harm. Coming back to the border question, not George Galloway, but
:42:18. > :42:21.General Richards again and in cannot possibly defeat ices by only
:42:22. > :42:24.attacking them in Iraq. How the hell can you win the war when most of
:42:25. > :42:31.your enemy can end up in a country you cannot get involved in? I have a
:42:32. > :42:35.lot of sympathy for that view, which is why we support what the Americans
:42:36. > :42:40.and the five Arab nations have done in Syria. We have a Syrian strategy,
:42:41. > :42:45.which is to build up the Syrian National Coalition to build up a
:42:46. > :42:48.political transition in Syria. But I wanted to take to the House of
:42:49. > :42:55.Commons a proposal that I could achieve a consensus on. Let's turn
:42:56. > :42:59.to the Conservative Party conference - did you have any idea that Mark
:43:00. > :43:04.Reckless was about to do what he has just done? Not specifically. But he
:43:05. > :43:08.has always been someone who... He very rarely votes for the
:43:09. > :43:12.government. He has made his views known. These things are frustrating,
:43:13. > :43:15.and frankly, they are counter-productive and rather
:43:16. > :43:21.senseless. If you want to have a European referendum, if you want to
:43:22. > :43:25.have immigration control, if you want to get the deficit down and you
:43:26. > :43:28.want to build a stronger Britain, there is only one option, which is
:43:29. > :43:33.to have a Conservative government after the next election. The choice
:43:34. > :43:37.is really between that government, and we have a track record now of
:43:38. > :43:40.getting the deficit down, getting people into jobs, or Ed Miliband in
:43:41. > :43:45.number 10 Downing Street, with no plan for the deficit, no leadership
:43:46. > :43:54.for our country, no way to get the economy going. The deficit going up.
:43:55. > :43:57.That is the choice. So his act is senseless and counter-productive.
:43:58. > :44:02.But we have to get on with the job of this week, which is setting out
:44:03. > :44:07.our plans. Douglas Carswell, who was a great supporter of yours, why do
:44:08. > :44:11.you think you are losing these kind of people, they say it is because
:44:12. > :44:14.you are not a proper Conservative in the end? I disagree with that. But
:44:15. > :44:18.in the end, it is counter-productive. Both of these
:44:19. > :44:22.people are people who, unlike me, they want to leave the European
:44:23. > :44:27.Union, no matter what. I do not agree with that. I think we should
:44:28. > :44:31.have a real go at reform, to get a better deal for Britain. But we have
:44:32. > :44:36.this clear promise on an in-out referendum by the end of 2017. So
:44:37. > :44:40.even if you do not agree with my be negotiation strategy, I am the only
:44:41. > :44:44.Prime Minister who will give you a chance to have a vote on staying in
:44:45. > :44:49.or getting out of the European Union. Turning to that, we have
:44:50. > :44:52.spoken about this before, but it is clear at the moment that the big
:44:53. > :44:56.issue is the free movement of people into this country from the rest of
:44:57. > :45:00.Europe, that is what is setting the UKIP people alike, and a lot of your
:45:01. > :45:03.own people are concerned about it. Is that at the heart of your be
:45:04. > :45:09.negotiation policy, ending the open frontier?
:45:10. > :45:22.Out Immigration will be the heart of my renegotiation strategy. There
:45:23. > :45:27.will be a whole series of changes, at the heart of this, the idea that
:45:28. > :45:32.people... Of course there is a right to go and work in other European
:45:33. > :45:37.countries but it is not an unqualified right. You should not be
:45:38. > :45:42.able to move for benefits. When new countries join the European Union,
:45:43. > :45:47.you should be able to say to them that their people cannot work in our
:45:48. > :45:52.country unless their economy is at a similar level to ours. But you
:45:53. > :45:56.cannot do anything about the free movement of people within the EU?
:45:57. > :46:01.That is one of the things I think that worries people and it concerns
:46:02. > :46:06.me. The right to go and work in France or Spain, or Spanish people
:46:07. > :46:10.to come and do a job that is advertised here, that is one thing
:46:11. > :46:15.but it is a different thing to go and claim benefits, even to work in
:46:16. > :46:20.Britain, to send your benefits home to your families that stay in your
:46:21. > :46:38.home countries, those things need to be addressed. The bigger point is
:46:39. > :46:40.that there is only one way these things can get addressed. If Ed
:46:41. > :46:44.Miliband is in Downing Street, none of these things will happen. If I am
:46:45. > :46:47.Prime Minister, these things will happen and there will be an in-out
:46:48. > :46:51.referendum. Are you determined we will stay within the EU? I am
:46:52. > :46:54.determined to do the right thing for Britain. What I believe is right for
:46:55. > :46:58.Britain is to seek reform, get reform and get Britain to vote to
:46:59. > :47:02.stay in a reformed European Union. That is my plan, but if people don't
:47:03. > :47:07.like that plan, the only way they get to vote to get out of the EU is
:47:08. > :47:11.if I am Prime Minister. I think people want to know what is your
:47:12. > :47:13.plan. Also they want to know what is your base position. If you
:47:14. > :47:18.renegotiate and you don't get everything you want, you say to the
:47:19. > :47:27.British people, OK we should leave Europe, we didn't get we want --
:47:28. > :47:32.what we want. If you are determined to stay in Europe, it is much harder
:47:33. > :47:36.to get that negotiation successfully. In a negotiation you
:47:37. > :47:39.should set out what you want to achieve, and I want the other
:47:40. > :47:44.countries in Europe to see that there is a plan here, that with
:47:45. > :47:48.reform can end in a reformed relationship with Britain and
:47:49. > :47:54.Britain staying in. I want them to see that that is the goal. If I
:47:55. > :47:59.don't achieve that, it will be for the British public to decide whether
:48:00. > :48:04.to stay in or get out. Are there any circumstances under which you say to
:48:05. > :48:08.the British people that I, David Cameron, recommend we leave the EU?
:48:09. > :48:13.If I thought it wasn't in Britain's interests to be in the European
:48:14. > :48:18.Union, I wouldn't want us to be in it. I do this job because I love my
:48:19. > :48:23.country, I care passionately about its future and I wanted to be a
:48:24. > :48:29.strong, proud, self-governing, independent nation. Yes, working
:48:30. > :48:33.with other countries, trade and cooperation, that is what drives...
:48:34. > :48:38.If you don't get what you want, you say to the British people it is time
:48:39. > :48:42.to go? I am saying we will get what we want and I think the British
:48:43. > :48:46.public wants someone who is determined to deliver for them a
:48:47. > :48:50.better future in Europe, but in the end they decide. Let's move onto
:48:51. > :48:54.something else you said recently which was right at the end of the
:48:55. > :49:00.Scottish vote, you said English devolution should happen at the same
:49:01. > :49:05.pace as and in tandem with Scottish devolution, do you still believe
:49:06. > :49:09.that? Yes, we will keep our vows to the people of Scotland that they
:49:10. > :49:14.will have a stronger Scottish parliament with stronger powers over
:49:15. > :49:19.taxation, welfare and spending. That will happen and the agreement we set
:49:20. > :49:24.out, it wasn't even a new departure for the Conservative Party because
:49:25. > :49:27.we had already signed up to plans for that. I am saying that with a
:49:28. > :49:33.Conservative government, you don't just get Scottish devolution, you
:49:34. > :49:37.get English votes for English laws, the English question and said so
:49:38. > :49:41.that MPs in Wales and Northern Ireland and England get these rights
:49:42. > :49:45.in the way the Scots have. The Labour Party don't agree with quite
:49:46. > :49:50.a lot of that, other parties have different views as well, it is a
:49:51. > :49:53.complicated thing to deliver in a few months so a lot of people in
:49:54. > :49:57.Scotland are saying that this solemn promise will not be delivered
:49:58. > :50:03.because you and Ed Miliband will fallout and between you and will not
:50:04. > :50:07.be delivered. We may well fallout over this issue because I don't
:50:08. > :50:11.think Labour have an answer to this question. The Conservatives do have
:50:12. > :50:17.an answer, it was an answer, it was in our 2001 manifesto, 2005
:50:18. > :50:23.manifesto and our last manifesto. You can have a choice - Ed Miliband
:50:24. > :50:29.and Scottish devolution and nothing for the English, or David Cameron
:50:30. > :50:33.and a proper answer to the English question. Whatever the arguments
:50:34. > :50:37.going on in London about English parliaments and English votes for
:50:38. > :50:43.English laws, however that is going, the Scots will get the
:50:44. > :50:47.devolution promise under all circumstances? Yes. Do you now
:50:48. > :50:52.favour an English parliament as such and where would it sit? I don't,
:50:53. > :50:55.because I think the last thing this country wants is another expensive
:50:56. > :51:02.parliament building with another expensive group of politicians. I
:51:03. > :51:07.think it is perfectly possible to make changes in the Westminster
:51:08. > :51:13.parliament so that when issues that are exclusively about England or
:51:14. > :51:16.England and Wales are addressed, we can find voting arrangements to
:51:17. > :51:21.reflect that. We need to do that not just in terms of what happens with
:51:22. > :51:26.English laws but if the Scots are going to have the right to set
:51:27. > :51:30.income tax rates, you need arrangements in the UK Parliament in
:51:31. > :51:33.a Westminster parliament to make sure there is fairness there as
:51:34. > :51:40.well. These plans are being worked on by William Hague. Either there
:51:41. > :51:44.will be an outbreak of consent across the parties, I doubt it, I
:51:45. > :51:49.suspect it will be the Conservative Party putting forward a balanced
:51:50. > :51:54.programme of devolution at the next election, and when we win our
:51:55. > :51:59.majority we will put that into place in tandem. Your big announcement is
:52:00. > :52:04.about using money from welfare cuts to boost the number of
:52:05. > :52:07.apprenticeships. You are cutting the welfare cap to ?23,000, what
:52:08. > :52:13.evidence do you have that lots of families will be able to cope with
:52:14. > :52:17.?3000 less? We have found the welfare cap is a policy that worked
:52:18. > :52:23.very well. When we said we were going to Cap families at ?26,000,
:52:24. > :52:27.people said this would cause chaos, but what has actually happened is a
:52:28. > :52:35.lot of those families have gone into work, found a job, and it has helped
:52:36. > :52:39.them with their lives. I think the evidence is that the cap is too
:52:40. > :52:44.loose, particularly in some parts of the country. It will mean more
:52:45. > :52:49.families getting into work. The plan we have for Britain is to spend less
:52:50. > :52:54.on welfare and more on helping people get into work. So we are
:52:55. > :52:59.going to use that money to pay for 3 million apprenticeships. After the
:53:00. > :53:08.fall years, we have seen our economy turned round. -- after the four
:53:09. > :53:14.years. We have best growth of any country in the west, but now we need
:53:15. > :53:17.to give every family in this country the security and the peace of mind
:53:18. > :53:22.they want. With a Conservative government they will get the chance
:53:23. > :53:27.of a good job, their taxes will come down, they will get a good school
:53:28. > :53:31.place for their children. Are we moving towards a situation where
:53:32. > :53:40.nobody under the age of 21 gets any kind of benefits? It is not quite as
:53:41. > :53:44.simple as that, but I want us to effectively abolish youth
:53:45. > :53:49.unemployment. I want to end the idea that aged 18 you can leave school,
:53:50. > :53:54.stay at home and claim housing benefit. We should be saying that
:53:55. > :54:01.you should be earning all learning. If you need to have benefits there
:54:02. > :54:07.will be an allowance, otherwise... 48% of these people have children so
:54:08. > :54:11.my question to you is, for the best possible motive is no doubt, but are
:54:12. > :54:20.you going to put a large section of the population into poverty? This is
:54:21. > :54:26.about single people aged 18 to 21, at the moment they can leave home,
:54:27. > :54:32.sign-on, get housing benefit and start a life of dependency. We are
:54:33. > :54:36.saying save that money, make sure that after six months every one of
:54:37. > :54:43.those young people has to be in a job or training and use the savings
:54:44. > :54:46.to provide 3 million apprentices. Talking about immigration earlier,
:54:47. > :54:51.if you want to solve that problem, the other side of the coin is
:54:52. > :54:55.education and welfare. We need an education system that educates young
:54:56. > :54:59.people so they can take the jobs that are becoming available and we
:55:00. > :55:03.need a welfare system that prioritises work. For now, thank you
:55:04. > :55:09.very much. The news. The MoD has confirmed that
:55:10. > :55:12.RAF Tornadoes are continuing to fly over Iraq,
:55:13. > :55:13.and gather important intelligence Yesterday two Tornado jets carried
:55:14. > :55:16.out armed reconnaissance operations The Pentagon says US jets have made
:55:17. > :55:22.strikes on the Syrian city of Raqqa as well as IS positions
:55:23. > :55:35.near the Turkish border. Speaking on this programme, the
:55:36. > :55:39.Prime Minister said air strikes were not intended as a simplistic
:55:40. > :55:42.solution to the crisis in Iraq but were part of the compounds of
:55:43. > :55:46.strategy to build a democratic country. David Cameron said he had
:55:47. > :55:51.sympathy with the view that it was also necessary to take action
:55:52. > :55:53.against Islamic State forces in Syria.
:55:54. > :55:56.The next news is on BBC1 at One o'clock.
:55:57. > :56:05.First, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.
:56:06. > :56:18.Does an art show of black actors in chains mean racism? And Henry
:56:19. > :56:24.Winkler gives us a lesson on how to be called.
:56:25. > :56:29.And we all need that. The Prime Minister is still with me. We must
:56:30. > :56:32.ask you about when you were overheard talking about the Queen
:56:33. > :56:38.pairing with pleasure. Presumably she was furious what were you
:56:39. > :56:43.thinking of? One of those moments when you look back and kick yourself
:56:44. > :56:48.very hard. It was not a conversation I should have hard, even though it
:56:49. > :56:52.was a private conversation, I am extremely sorry and embarrassed
:56:53. > :56:57.about it. I have made my apologies and I think I will probably be
:56:58. > :57:03.making some more. Are you ashamed about it? I am very sorry. Have you
:57:04. > :57:07.repaired things with the Palace? I am not going to discuss that
:57:08. > :57:12.conversation even with you. You said recently you were delighted to see
:57:13. > :57:17.Boris on his way back to the pitch, if the team wins would you like him
:57:18. > :57:21.back in the Cabinet as well? Of course but he has got to finish his
:57:22. > :57:28.term as Mayor of London and that is what he wants to do. Once he has
:57:29. > :57:32.finished that, he is a star, and as I have always said, I want to have
:57:33. > :57:39.the stars in the team. You come to this conference with a couple of
:57:40. > :57:42.defections, a sex scandal, and people are muttering the final years
:57:43. > :57:47.of John Major. How does that make you feel? I have to admit, it has
:57:48. > :57:51.not been an ideal start but the truth is that these things,
:57:52. > :57:56.frustrating as they are, they don't change the fundamental choice of the
:57:57. > :58:03.election, which is continuing with a long-term economic plan, or do you
:58:04. > :58:07.want to lurch off with Ed Miliband with no plan, no leadership, no
:58:08. > :58:13.ideas about the economy, just more borrowing and taxes. That is the
:58:14. > :58:18.choice. In this job you wake up and you find all sorts of things have
:58:19. > :58:21.patterned -- happened in your own party, but does it change the
:58:22. > :58:25.fundamentals of what the team are doing? It doesn't. Thank you for
:58:26. > :58:30.joining us. We're almost out
:58:31. > :58:32.of time this morning. Join us again at the same time next
:58:33. > :58:36.week when I'll be talking to the Deputy Prime Minister,
:58:37. > :58:39.Nick Clegg, ahead of the Liberal Earlier, we heard Nick Cave's
:58:40. > :58:42.thoughts on song writing so here's the man himself performing
:58:43. > :58:44.in London a while ago. This is his most famous hit,
:58:45. > :58:48.Into My Arms. # Into my arms, O Lord